The White House, the Democratic National Committee and Mr. Biden’s re-election campaign have all declined to talk about Mr. Kennedy on the record — a coordinated effort to avoid giving him oxygen....
Still, Mr. Kennedy’s early strength highlights Biden weaknesses....
Kennedy is averaging 15.6% and Biden only has an average of 62.0%. I'm reminded of 1968, when the incumbent President was running for reelection and one daring candidate had begun to make headway, and that caused RFK Sr. to jump in. So, perhaps RFK Jr. is analogous to Eugene McCarthy, and he'll get just far enough to cause some other Democrat to take over.
From "The Election of 1968" (PBS):
McCarthy mobilized hundreds of student volunteers, who went "clean for Gene," cutting their hair and going door-to-door for him in New Hampshire, home of the nation's first primary election. The effort paid off and in March 1968, McCarthy shocked the political world by winning 42 percent of the vote. He did not win the primary, but the size of his support was a defeat to Johnson. Sensing Johnson's vulnerability, Senator Robert F. Kennedy of New York entered the race for the Democratic nomination. That, along with renewed opposition to the war in light of the North Vietnamese Tet offensive, prompted President Johnson to announce that he was not running for re-election.
Posts
118 comments:
He ain't no Bernie. He ain't even a Teddy. He's a blip on the polls and his name is all that got him this far. Good riddance after South Carolina.
Vivek was the CEO of a big biotech that developed 5 FDA approved drugs.
In Sioux City last week, he said that 90% of the FDA employees should be released. He has personal experience on the corruption between the government and the private sector.
One biotech that I'm invested in has to submit an IND form to the FDA. It is over 1,000 pages.
We still haven’t met the Dem’s 2024 nominee. Biden is the walking dead. Even if he’s still alive, he can’t campaign. He couldn’t campaign last time either, but they engineered it so he wouldn’t have to. He won’t be so lucky next time. Kennedy has something for everyone, but he also has something to make everyone cringe and turn away. Newsom is no more electable than Bloomberg or DeBlasio. There is no viable national Democratic candidate.
I am thinking that an 'avoidance of debate' tactic isn't going to work, but the hope that it might work is going to be enough to make it a preferred tactic. Plenty of low-information voters will buy into it, and quite a few slightly-informed-but-feeling-virtuous (overconfident) voters will do so, as well - just as they have done, with the jab. Which increasingly, is being defrocked as time builds its inevitable legacy of actual results.
I've done a little reading on RFKJr's proposition that better overall worldwide nutrition coincides with the advent of vaccines and is likely to be (at least) equally responsible for the decline of infectious diseases. There is something to this, in the world of medical research, that makes it worthy of debate. RFKJr is very clear that his opinions do not originate with him, but are grounded in scientific discovery and a review of medical records. And his discussion of the use of poisons as adjuvants (during the Rogan podcast) is also eminently reasonable. He is not a nut - but the use of this pejorative by his competitors and adversaries is powerful, and hard to resist by someone who is not as well-versed in the facts, or as confident of their advocacy.
"Biden is caught flatfooted"
As opposed to being caught continually in mindless drivel, weird malapropisms, and obvious lies? Does anyone think Biden would be a able to examine research on vaccines, judge the evidence on pros and cons, and debate the relevant issues for more than a minute worth of soundbites?
But Nut v. Grandpa would be entertaining.
It’s cute that you’re trying to make RFK happen. He only appeals to the tin foil hat class. And those conspiracy mongering shitbitds are all in on Trump.
Don’t we think the whole “vaccines cause autism and chemicals in the water make the kids trans” is more of a MAGAT territory?
I will have to listen to the Rogan podcast. I have mostly ignored RFK Jr. so far because, to me, "vaccine skeptic" has so often meant someone who buys into Andrew Wakefield's flawed (and withdrawn) study. It's hard to ignore the benefits that vaccines like the ones for polio, measles, and smallpox have brought us. Still, it seems reasonable to be concerned that there could be vaccines of more questionable benefit that are riding the coattails of these others. It's also more than reasonable to question the influence the pharma companies have on our nation's healthcare policies.
Democratic voting shook up the war party. Then Bobby was going all in. Oops he’s shoot dead too. Sounds like the 1968 Democrats convention will be another all nighter with those crazy anti-war young people rioting.
As our 2024 version of Dick Nixon rolls along.
"People who lived through the rigors of the coronavirus pandemic may demand that the experts prove they were worthy of the trust and obedience they demanded."
Democrats question dictates of the State? Not likely. (My intent is not snark. I really don't think that will happen.)
It sounds like the Obama estrogen cloud to me, a description of his rallies in 2008.
Lefty Norman Finklestein rates Obama as a complete intellectual fraud, I happened to be watching yesterday.
I don't know if he'll rate RFK for us.
People who lived through the rigors of the coronavirus pandemic may demand that the experts prove they were worthy of the trust and obedience they demanded.
I think this is it exactly. Pre-coronavirus, I think "anti-vaccine" would have been enough to marginalise him. But we're now in a world where public health experts just nuked their own credibility, so it doesn't have nearly the bite it would have had four years ago.
For Democrats, Kennedy taking out Biden wouldn't be terrible if they had someone credible waiting in the wings. And they do have some governors who could make a reasonable pitch, but only after they clobber Kamala Harris. Not a difficult feat -- she's an awful candidate -- but difficult to do without splitting the Democrats' base by alienating upper middle class female professionals. I'm not sure they have any non-crazy female politicians who could take over to avoid that, but I suppose there's always an opening for a backbencher like Obama to come in out of nowhere. I just don't know who that would be.
Kucinich...Kucinich...he's that guy who's dad was mailman, right? Pees with his hands on his hips? Yeah, I think know who that is.
It isn't the idea that vaccines don't work, but questioning why so many vaccines, why they are mandated, especially for babies, and how the side effects are balanced against the benefits.
Exactly. Nobody wants bring back the measles. We're looking for some honesty from a corrupt industry. I'm surprised the NYTs mentioned RFK Jr.
People who lived through the rigors of the coronavirus pandemic may demand that the experts prove they were worthy of the trust and obedience they demanded.
I know people who lost jobs, or left jobs rather than take the mandated mRNA shots. They already demanded 'experts' prove themselves worthy and decided, correctly, they were full of shit.
I can't imagine people who did take the shots want to hear they were duped. That's where I think RFK Jr. caps at 20 to maybe 30%.
The education establishment (PhDs, University Administrators, Teachers, Teacher's Union, Liberal School Boards) will be the most resistant to opening up any of their ears to the dangers of COVID mRNA shots. Especially the teachers that insisted upon "me first"! They won't want to hear a word from RFK Jr. He is gaining traction by speaking the truth, and asking the right questions. But, his vilification will begin very soon.
"Educators" will be leaders in the attacks. Medical "professionals" will join in too to protect their career$.
Dennis Kucinich is his campaign manager? Oh, good luck with that. Dennis was a congressional representative in Cleveland with delusions of grandeur. We think of him as a Bernie Sanders type, but without one foot in reality. Like Bernie, Dennis seems to be pretty honest, but his unorthodox ideas are in the direction of tin foil hats so they can't read your brain waves.
Since RFK Jr. talks so much about deep corruption, he might want a campaign manager who can hold him back. Dennis isn't that guy.
Listening to the Rogan podcast, I found RFK Jr's voice to be very unpleasant. Can he campaign effectively while voters are wondering if he has throat polyps, cancer or something?
"We are looking at a winter of severe illness and death for the unvaccinated – for themselves, their families and the hospitals they'll soon overwhelm. But there's good news: If you're vaccinated and you have your booster shot, you're protected from severe illness and death" Joe Biden, Dec 16, 2021.
It was all bullshit. The "vaccinated" got sick like everyone else, and the "unvaccinated" didn't experience a winter of death. Hospitals were never overwhelmed. It was a lie in 2020, and it was a bigger lie in Dec 2021...and never came to fruition in 2022 as threatened.
However, the statement seems to be what Joe wanted to happen those who refused the shots. Let 'em die. Take them off transplant list. Put them last in triage priority. Fire them. Ban them. Even Piers Morgan suggested it out loud. So did Jimmy Kimmel.
One of the sickest things I've ever witnessed in my life.
Charlie Sykes reminds us of his observation at Bulwark:
"And right now, the binary choice is not Trump vs. Biden: It’s Trump or Never Again Trump."
Dennis K? This maybe the kiss of death for the RFK campaign.
Democrats don't question vaccines in large numbers, Republicans do. But it has not helped DeSantis against Trump so far.
I don't question vaccines, I more than question Biden's age (and Trump's). My choice for a protest vote at the moment is RFK or Williamson. (Both also too old, as is Green Party guy.)
I have pushed the 1968 precedent for a while. But Vietnam a big issue for Democrats. 1952 also. Truman rejected in NH over Korea and 3rd term. Then Truman got out and Stevenson entered the race. Still hopeful for same in 2024. But fear can only happen if Trump has been swept away. Democrats trust Biden to beat Trump like no one else.
LOL Kucinich. Another crank. This debate kerfuffle is silly. My TL has blown up with it. None of the parties are policy makers and the pandemic is over. DeSantis needs to set up a process to review the whole fiasco and see what we can learn from it. Kennedy is an articulate bomb thrower, not a leader or an executive.
That, along with renewed opposition to the war in light of the North Vietnamese Tet offensive,
=======
this was successful misinformation by Walter Cronkite.
for 2024 what will be served up? mis/dis/cis-information?
Maybe if they start referring to him as an 'ultra-mega-MAGA-anti-vaxer'?
(At the very least, I'd enjoy watching the President try to say that three times, fast.)
But if that insult is questioned — what is it they don't want us to look into? — then Biden is caught flatfooted.
And if somebody turns up evidence that vaccine mandates involved bribery, and that vaccines can have dangerous side effects, Joe Biden will become the least popular ex-president in history. That will be true even lif it turns out that he himself was not directly bribed. And by “bribe” I mean “financially benefited,” even if the transaction was technically legal, e.g., assignment of lucrative patents to Rochelle Walensky and/or Anthony Fauci.
Alternate headline:
Why Robert Kennedy Jr.’s 2024 Bid Is a Headache for Biden, a serial fabulist,/The unexpected polling strength of Kennedy, a man with a celebrated Democratic lineage, points to the president’s weaknesses, which his team is aiming to lie about.
People who lived through the rigors of the coronavirus pandemic may demand that the experts prove they were worthy of the trust and obedience they demanded.
A lot of us were at this point a long time ago. The Covids just made the general bankruptcy of the ruling class obvious (at least to non-sheep).
Bobby's concern about the vax schedule has been mine for years. Anti-vax is a label that's deployed to stop any discussion, even a reasonable one.
When Newsom's wife opened up about the accident that killed her sister, my immediate thought was, "He's in." Why tell something so painfully personal unless you want to get out ahead of the press dive when you declare? I would hate to see Bobby become a tool who weakens Biden so that someone the Dems find more palatable can jump the line.
From the NY Post link: His [RFK Jr] longtime prominent anti-vax views were highlighted during the COVID-19 pandemic, when he railed against vaccines and pushed for use of ivermectin, a parasite treatment medicine, or anti-malaria drug hydroxychloroquine to treat the virus instead
The vilification of of HCQ and Ivermectin during COVID was criminal. People died who were denied access to the drugs and early treatment options. The claims of their "danger" were all a lie. The gov't and Big Pharma did not want cost effective, early treatments. They wanted the "vaccine$" only. Trump was vilified for supporting HCQ usage. Democrat governors (like Michigan's Whitmer) gave warning to doctors about prescribing HCQ "without medical necessity" and asked pharmacists to evaluate the legitimacy of the prescriptions. That's not the job of a pharmacist, and doctors feared having their licenses suspended.
Leftists and liberals LOVED it. Gov. Whitmer's approach was "science"? Bullshit. "Horse de-wormer" was the cliché of the day. Mindless. Thoughtless. Evil. Stupid.
There are too many liberals who bet everything on the lies. They will NEVER admit they were wrong. Biden is safe. At the moment Kennedy is a needed inconvenience. But the staff at the Women's Studies Dept. at UW aren't going to vote for RFK Jr. Neither will members of the Teacher's Unions. Pensions need protecting...
“Right now, we're seeing an avoidance of debating with Kennedy, but will that strategy work?”
Sure. The woke realize that debate is ‘an imperialist capitalist white supremacist cis-heteropatriarchal technique that transforms a potential exchange of knowledge into a tool of exclusion and oppression’, and the woke rule.
I don't think any one scientist will be able to handle the firehose of argle-bargle RFK will spray at him. RFK likes to move the goalpost beyond mere pharma corruption too. It's not just about that. It's about all vaccines.
I get it, years ago I read Peter Duesberg's "aids hoax" book and was intrigued by that for awhile myself. I'm still not sure he's wrong. But he was totally deplatformed and the world moved on. A virologist at UC Berkeley yet.
It's just awfully convenient to not have to take an epidemic or even a war seriously when it's such an expensive hassle. Two years max then things fall apart.
Wiki and other sources paint Kennedy as kind of an anti-vaccine nut, but the depiction of his views as aired on the podcast seems reasonable to me even if I might not agree with all of it.
"Bob Boyd said...
Kucinich...Kucinich...he's that guy who's dad was mailman, right? Pees with his hands on his hips? Yeah, I think know who that is.
It is John Kasich, republican congressman and governor from Columbus area, whose father was the mailman.
"But if that insult is questioned — what is it they don't want us to look into? — then Biden is caught flatfooted."
Speaking of being caught flatfooted: How Did More Than $10 Million End Up in Biden’s Bank Account?
The Biden's reported an out-of-the-blue $11M income in 2017. It seems to me that if Biden took (a) multimillion dollar bribe(s), it ought to show up as unexplained income. And voila!, there it is.
Kennedy can bring a lot of different people together. I believe he could draw from some Republicans, Democrats, and Independents. And he might even draw a decent number- for an outside candidate. But...(there's always a but)...he also draws an equally intense negative reaction as he does a positive reaction. No denying it. I've been watching the last few weeks, and whoo-boy!...Democrats really don't like him much.
Dems today are the status quo keepers. They back The State. They back The Narrative. Hell...they write The Narrative. So anyone who looks to break up The State or The Narrative will not be acceptable.
Gavin Newsom or Biden on the Democratic side when all is said and done. Biden would have already been shown the door had they a working backup bench in that party. But they don't. Their next best choice is a guy who oversaw the beginning of the decline of San Francisco, and the overall decline of the State of California. But he's handsome and has great hair. And these days, that'll get him the nomination.
I hope RFK will succeed. The USa would be much better with him as POTUS than Biden. at least RFK's not a corrupt, senile, warmongering fool. And RFK might actually enforce the immigration laws.
But he has zero chance of getting nominated. The black leaders are with Biden. As Althouse states he could open up the nomination for someone the black leadership could support. Newsome maybe?
The NYT has slapped a label on RFK,, just like the do with anyone they dislike. i forgot was label bernie was slapped with in 2016, wasn't in "far Left"?
Blogger Aggie said...
I am thinking that an 'avoidance of debate' tactic isn't going to work..
It WILL work. In 2022 Katie Hobbs refused to debate. Part of the leftist / liberal mindset is do avoid being challenged. It's a tactic used to say "your opinion doesn't even matter". In reality it is because they can't back up their bullshit.
Watch "What is a Woman". As soon as a liberal Phd or MD get challenged, they become uncomfortable and want to end the interview.
Liberals on college campuses have been teaching indoctrinated students to shout down opposing views for decades. It's the same as debate avoidance. 100% accepted on the left.
About I'll venture about 2024? We're gonna get another iteration of someone who has no business being in the position getting the job.
We need to start asking ourselves a question: Why are these people that we elevate to run things so universally incompetent and venal?
Show me one damn thing that the Biden Krime Krewe is getting right. Show me the positive net outcome from the Clintons, Obama, or Trump. Hell, show me something good coming out of Newsom. Or, any of the lower-level cretins we put in charge of things, at any level.
Something has gone seriously wrong with our system, in that we can't look at a city like Minneapolis or Portland and say "Yeah, ya know what... That ain't working; fire the people in charge..." and then make it stick. We lie to ourselves about this BS each and every day, while watching the insanity getting worse and worse. It's like a national-level case of "The Emperor's New Clothes", and we're all in the crowd nodding along while these assholes parade past us, waving their wing-wangs in our faces.
I don't see a single politician on the national level I'd want in charge of dogcatching in my town. Not a one. They're all dumb as rocks, self-interested, and they consistently lie about everything.
And, it ain't nowhere different anywhere else in the nation. How many really competent people do I run into, in local government? Damn few; they're all petty little empire builders with zero concern for what should be their jobs... All their subordinate employees hate their guts, and damn few of them have any respect from anyone working in their offices. Yet... Somehow, all these venal assholes wound up in charge.
And, we tolerate it. Why?
I am absolutely positive the commenters here criticizing RFK Jr. have not had Prof Peter Hotez MD PhD's five (yes 5) recommended mRNA shots. Initial two, booster, booster, bivalent booster.
That's five. If you support the "science" but haven't followed the "experts" you're either completely full of shit, or fearful and skeptical as well, which brings us full circle to being full of shit.
Has ANY commenter here taken Prof Peter Hotez' five recommended mRNA shots?
I'm betting the number is somewhere between zero and zero.
A veteran politician said about Kucinich, then Cleveland mayor, "Every town has a village idiot. In Cleveland, we elected him mayor."
Yes notice the descriptor that the democrat party propaganda outlet the NYTimes uses.
Nobody could be crazier than the folks running Biden. The idiots, like the dullard and a few of her fellow Russia phobes, are fine with the bunch that is ending civilization.
I'm resolved to be wary of people calling RFKJr a nut or a crank. Those pejoratives are heavy, blunt instruments. I avoid using them, because they're a cheap shortcut, designed only to demolish a threat to the internal dialogs that are absolutely critical to keeping a sense of intellectual honesty. He didn't sound that way to me.
It's the same kind of thing as calling people who argue against the status quo in Climate Science 'deniers'. It's an ugly trick - taking a word whose coining originated with the deniers of the Nazi Holocaust, and applying it to an entirely different cohort of skeptics, on a different subject - but along the way, making sure the association of the word also brought some of the disgust and contempt that was reserved for the original group.
A dirty linguistic trick, consciously perpetrated. How could anyone trust people that rely on such artifice, rather than honest debate? Science is an open-ended argument, by definition. There is no 'trust'. When there is new data, it is shared and aired, and its reproducibility examined and subject to challenge. Anything else is not science. When 'experts' say 'trust the science', what they really mean is 'believe what I say, uncritically, and trust the policy'. We have fresh, recent insights into the flaws of those kinds of arguments now, and we're getting more by the day.
What's with all the Kennedy posts? Really.
Bobby and Ethel Kennedy’s spawn inherited their IQ’s from their Aunt Rosemary.
Except for Chris and Douglas, the boys have lived lives characterized by poor choices that, in some cases, even the Kennedy name could not help mitigate.
"I can't imagine people who did take the shots want to hear they were duped. "
Or that they had their kids jabbed.
Major confirmation bias in this...as the excess deaths climb.
"Antivaxxer" Steve Kirsch took two doses as did his family.
Can't be a good feeling.
I'm not even close to being an RFK fan, but at least get his positions right if you're going to attack him. (The level of vitriol in the comments against him here and elsewhere makes me think the someone has given instructions to their piecework employees--but I digress).
As best I can tell without reading his whole giant book, RFK is not against the old-school vaccines that were developed using traditional techniques and tested widely. He's opposed to the post-1988 regime in which pharma companies are "immunized" against being sued for harm done by their products. He think some of those post-1988 formulations are the ones that cause harm, and that the harm is often caused by preservatives or the materials added to stimulate the immune system rather than the proteins of the organism being vaccinated against.
I'd had him labeled as "quack" forever until I saw that in testing the "safety" of the mRNA vaccines, they gave the experimental group the "every other thing in the vial + mRNA" and the control group "every other thing in the vial without mRNA." So if the adjuvants, lipid nanoparticles, preservatives, caused a bad reaction, you would never catch it. What possible scientific reason is there for having no real controls (i.e., a saline shot, or, for psych/placebo purposes, some niacin or something like that)?
By the way, did you know that some polio vaccines in the 1950s were contaminated with Simian Virus 40 (SV40), and that this virus causes the otherwise rare cancer mesothelioma, which suddenly increased massively. Somehow, mysteriously, the epidemiological studies were so statistically flawed that it was impossible to determine if SV40 in the vaccine caused widespread cancer (Asbestos was blamed, and it does cause mesothelioma, but thousands of people got the cancer with only notional exposure. "Gulf War Syndrome" seems to be caused by bad reactions to the squalene adjuvant in the rushed-to-troops anthrax vaccines. Given this history for pharma/US Gov't partnerships, should anyone even be surprised that the recent vaccines were more dangerous and less effective than advertised.
We'll have to wait on events to see how vulnerable Biden is. Right now it is a long way to New Hampshire and anything can happen over the next half year. Speculation is fun, but it's nothing to get worked up about.
Althouse and Balfegor said:
Balfegor said...
People who lived through the rigors of the coronavirus pandemic may demand that the experts prove they were worthy of the trust and obedience they demanded.
I think this is it exactly. Pre-coronavirus, I think "anti-vaccine" would have been enough to marginalise him. But we're now in a world where public health experts just nuked their own credibility, so it doesn't have nearly the bite it would have had four years ago.
It was terrible when Biden said ", the pandemic of the unvaccinated is a tragedy that is preventable.” He promoted the idea that people who weren't vaccinated should lose their jobs. They did!
Other Americans (Allah Pundit from HotAir was surprisingly one of them) strongly advocated that people who wouldn't get vaccinated shouldn't receive health care! People with opposing views were suppressed from social media.
It was so ugly ugly ugly. Lead by public health experts and nobody seems to have any apologies to give. Will Kennedy benefit by being, even if wrong, willing to ask questions? Willing to allow debate? That seems so refreshing these days.
Don’t be ridiculous Althouse. The DNC loves the puppet figurehead they have in Biden. And if you haven’t been paying attention, they choose the candidate.
I think people are underestimating the effect Kennedy is going to have, despite the Democrats'/MSM's efforts to ignore him. While I don't think he has a chance to win the nomination and will probably max out somewhere in the 25-30% range, his rise to this level suggests he's connecting with a particular subset of Democrats that could be a real vulnerability in the 2024 election, namely the older, more traditional Democrats who are not fully on board with the far left excesses that Biden has now fully supported.
Your daddy's Democrat was NOT for free range urban criminality, childhood trans surgeries, cancelling free speech, etc. And some of those dads are still around. So too are a lot of independents that tend to lean Democrat but have been reminded by RFK, Jr that the leaning required now is too far.
The RFK effect will be in the election, not in the nomination.
I'd rather Dennis Kucinich run than Kennedy.
Dennis Kucinich? There's a name I haven't heard in awhile. Fortunately.
The Dems' problem is that they have no bench.
Remember the 2020 primary (and pre-primary) season? The Dem pros knew they needed a moderate to run against Trump, and they looked around, and who did they see? The Socialist from Vermont and the Faux Indian from Massachusetts. Both far Leftists.
So they dug up Old Joe, who had experience playing a moderate. And it worked.
But AFTER he was elected, Old Joe decided to play Far Leftist.
But the point is, Joe was the Dems ONLY choice in 2020 if they wanted to claim their candidate was a moderate.
The Dems don't have ANYONE they can run as a moderate in 2024. Newsome? Get real.
I think the Democrats' smart money is on Biden making it through the election, and if he wins, Kamala being inaugurated in Jan. 2025.
Don't like that? What's the alternative?
Kennedy is pro-vaccine, and anti-vaxxxine, where the latter is directed through authoritarian mandate or bullying, and does not have a record of risk assessment. Vaxxxines, in contrast to vaccines, also do not offer sterilizing immunity which is a recipe for planned parent/hood etc.
"It's just awfully convenient to not have to take an epidemic or even a war seriously when it's such an expensive hassle. Two years max then things fall apart."
What?
It isn't the idea that vaccines don't work, but questioning why so many vaccines,
Because each one prevents more harm than it can create. It’s not hard.
especially for babies,’
Because waiting until *after* someone is likely to be exposed defeats the purpose.
and how the side effects are balanced against the benefits.
Asked and answered. Is Kennedy still saying that MMR vaccines cause autism? This is one of the worst and most thoroughly debunked hoaxes in medicine. The autism organizations caught on to it and have enough resentment and a bone to pick with him. It’s not clear that he’s even retracted that whopper. Or was it the one about how thimerosol was responsible for whatever kept happening after thimerosol was removed?
Either way the guy is not honest. His positioning is obviously for attention, notoriety, or because it gives him a sense of self-importance that he could have gotten by just going to medical school and becoming a doctor. But refusing to address what they do honestly is a poor substitute for that - except in his own mind and that of his fellow anti-vaxxers.
Blogger Bob Boyd said...
Kucinich...Kucinich...he's that guy who's dad was mailman, right? Pees with his hands on his hips? Yeah, I think know who that is.
Governor Kasich is the mailman's son. Kucinich is a jug-eared congressman from Cleveland from a few election cycles ago.
Right now, we're seeing an avoidance of debating with Kennedy, but will that strategy work?
Debating Kennedy on politics is fine. But debating people who will lie about public health measures or anything we rely on that requires special knowledge is a bad idea if you care about truth. Politicians should not be debating quantum mechanics. OJ Simpson lawyers got jurors to reject his DNA evidence because, as one said, if it’s a one in a billion chance that’s someone else’s DNA then that means there are still 6 or 7 people in the world who could have murdered Nicole Brown Simpson and Ronald Goldman. ACQUITTAL.
Bad outcome.
Scientists and physicians actually do debate. It’s called a peer-reviewed publication process and it removes showmanship, demagoguery, charisma, politics, and just focuses on the facts and substance of the medical or scientific argument. It is a debate, but not the kind Bobby’s kid would win. His position is just to get attention and relies on prejudices against government and in favor of conspiracies to push the facts of vaccine efficacy and safety out of the picture and get you to agree with him regardless of the facts.
I have mostly ignored RFK Jr. so far because, to me, "vaccine skeptic" has so often meant someone who buys into Andrew Wakefield's flawed (and withdrawn) study.
It wasn’t just flawed. That’s a heck of an understatement. It fabricated data and was an outright hoax. Every author except for Wakefield disavowed the paper and Wakefield’s credentials were eventually revoked. And yet IIRC Kennedy is still standing with Wakefield. Even the autism organizations are outraged. Years of research and tons of resources wasted into legitimately studying autism so that this rabbit hole could be festooned with crime scene tape, and still people buy it. We now live in a world of greater vaccine avoidance because of it, with the predictable and totally preventable measles outbreaks from year to year needlessly infecting, maiming and even killing some kids.
Bobby’s kid has no answer for any of that, so it seems clear that he must not care for anything except reinforcing his own sense of belief in how right he must have always been - all data to the contrary be damned. He is a disgrace and deserves no legitimacy. Anyone who cannot change position in response to the facts is no scientist. Hubris will never replace medicine and science.
MB said..."I have mostly ignored RFK Jr. so far because, to me, "vaccine skeptic" has so often meant someone who buys into Andrew Wakefield's flawed (and withdrawn) study."
RFKjr was a major proponent of the baseless claim that thimerosal in vaccines causes autism, and he wrote a book and a few sensationalized articles on the topic. His book publisher was Wakefield's publisher.
Mike Petrik said..."Wiki and other sources paint Kennedy as kind of an anti-vaccine nut, but the depiction of his views as aired on the podcast seems reasonable to me even if I might not agree with all of it."
I agree that RFKjr now comes off as very reasonable. Maybe it's age, but his persuasion skills seem effective. When he was younger, he came off a bit like a fanatic about global warming, his appreciation of Hugo Chavez, and the purported vax-autism connection.
TeaBagHag said..."Don’t we think the whole 'vaccines cause autism and chemicals in the water make the kids trans' is more of a MAGAT territory?"
From the time it started, I thought the "vaccines cause autism" theme was run-of-the-mill, apolitical crackpot territory, with maybe a slight lean to the Left. Kind if like nutritional supplements, homeopathy, and organic foods. I recall a few conservative commentators complaining about the theory as being mostly a conspiratorial gold mine for anti-business personal injury lawyers and advocates for increased regulation. As for the "something is in the water" crowd in general, do you really think that crowd is more on the Right than the Left?
hpudding said...debating people who will lie about public health measures or anything we rely on that requires special knowledge is a bad idea if you care about truth.
--
FDA wanted to keep Pfizer data hidden for over 70 years.
Because people without special knowledge might get ideas.
It's a fucked system..and has been at least since liability was waived.
They can screw with the data and stack jabs without any knowledge of the effect.
They broke new ground with the Covid jabs giving to preggers.
They rigged VAERS to exclude those who got harmed prior to "fully" jabbed and dissuaded docs from attributing the harnms.
Pharma pays regulatory agencies and media.
They're compromised.
One biotech that I'm invested in has to submit an IND form to the FDA. It is over 1,000 pages.
Are you sure that was not just the executive summary, David?
They can run into millions of pages.
The approval process for a new drug costs $1-2 billion dollars with no guarantee of getting approved even spending all that.
John LGB Henry
Notice the descriptor: "anti-vaccine activist."
RFK Jr. says that he is not anti-vaccine. He has been vaccinated, and so have his kids. They call him that because they don't dare address his claims, which are quite reasonable and very well-documented.
I was working in Pfizer the day the shot was approved. They were injecting every Pfizer employee and, although just a consultant, I was offered the jab. I declined on the grounds that 1) I was traveling and did not want to run the risk of a reaction away from home and 2) I would not be there for the 2nd shot and might not be able to get it in PR on schedule.
All true but I really, really, really, didn't want to take the shot then or after. I had serious concerns about the amount of testing done. I know that it normally takes 3-5 years to approve a new drug. MRNA was not just a new drug but a completely new, never successfully tried, treatment. I was not going to be a guinea pig.
I held off as long as possible but in July, the governor was saying that even residents of PR would not be allowed in without the shot and I was scared of being stranded. So I got the single J&J shot.
VA keeps harassing me about getting a second booster but I've refused so far and on my visit last week they didn't even ask.
Instead of jabs, every sunday I used to burn a sheet of 8-1/2X11 paper in my back yard. It seems to works just as well as the shots in keeping the kung-flu away.
As an added benefit, no elephants have come into my yard since I started doing it.
I do believe in vaccines. I've had 50-60 in my lifetime as a child and when I went in the Navy. I would do them again in an instant. Ditto my kids and grandkids.
But the Kung flu shot is not a "vaccine" in any meaningful sense of the word. Not even in the legal sense of the word. They had to change the legal definition of "vaccine" so it would fit.
So phooey on MRNA "vaccines".
John LGB Henry
skepticism is not allowed. You will obey or be called a misinformation.
Gusty Winds I've had 5 shots. Plan to get 6th next month, a year after 5th. As far as I know, I've never had covid. Also never had much reaction to any of the shots. Know plenty who've had 5 or 6 shots. Rarely wear a mask any more, but every day encounter those who still do.
It's kind of interesting to see the lefties attacking RFK Jr for his bad ideas when theirs are worse.
Blogger hpudding said...
I have mostly ignored RFK Jr. so far because, to me, "vaccine skeptic" has so often meant someone who buys into Andrew Wakefield's flawed (and withdrawn) study.
It wasn’t just flawed. That’s a heck of an understatement. It fabricated data and was an outright hoax. Every author except for Wakefield disavowed the paper and Wakefield’s credentials were eventually revoked.
Do you know who were the most enthusiastic believers in Wakefield's autism theory/hoax ?
West LA lefties. Plot the location of vaccine resistance and Whole Foods stores in LA.
They coincide ! This has always been a leftist conspiracy theory.
RFK Jr now sounds more sensible than you do.
Blogger hpudding said...
Because waiting until *after* someone is likely to be exposed defeats the purpose.
Bingo, even a blind pig can find an acorn every once in a while. Absolutely right, Pudding.
It is why a lot of knowledgable people were saying that wide use of the MRNA shot during as opposed to before the disease was exactly the wrong approach. That this does not build immunity to the disease, it build resistance to treatment of the disease.
See, Pudding isn't always wrong.
John LGB Henry
Sixty-some years ago in high school chemistry, we played with mercury. Rolled gobs of it back and forth on the lab tables, dropped its cute reverse meniscus from hand to hand. Fun.
Some decades later, you were required to run shrieking from the room if somebody even mentioned the dread phoneme.
One Detroit high school bought new shoes for every kid who'd been in the science wing the day somebody may have spilled That Terrible Stuff on the floor.
So MMR has mercury in it. Mentioned it to a pharma rep. "Below toxic amounts", he said.
So when it's your kid, who do you believe?
I happened to have a job dealing with people having personal difficulties the year MMR came out. Terrible birth defects if a pregnant woman gets rubella. My cases hadn't gotten it.
Finally figured out why moms used to have "german measels parties" when some little girl got the stuff. Natural immunity had been the only protection up to that point. So every little girl on the block had a sleepover.
But if you'd been assured that mercury was the WORSTEST THING EVER, maybe some suspicion might arise.
That said, Wakefield was a fraud. Wasn't that he got his chi square backwards by accident, But it landed in a fertile field.
Autism is caused by assortative mating. Spectrum men marry spectrum women since they both work in the same place.
I’ve never understood the “crack pot” slurs. Whether you agree with Kennedy or not, a litigator at his level does his homework. So the guy represents parents and their once healthy children who became severely mentally handicapped after vaccine injections. If you’ve never known someone with a vaccine injury or just don’t buy that the adjuvants are the cause, so be it! Vaccinate away! I find it intriguing that this is so threatening to people that they have to go on the attack. Just saying you don’t agree isn’t enough, he’s got to be crazy/conspiracy theorist/crack pot etc. Nowadays I actually look for these types of slurs in scanning the news headlines; that’s often a breadcrumb leading to some truth.
hpudding said:
“OJ Simpson lawyers got jurors to reject his DNA evidence because, as one said, if it’s a one in a billion chance that’s someone else’s DNA then that means there are still 6 or 7 people in the world who could have murdered Nicole Brown Simpson and Ronald Goldman.” No. That’s Marcia Clark’s version. I remember this from the trial, “the blood was not immediately turned over as evidence but was carried around for several hours before it was entered into the chain of custody” plus “Items were photographed without being labeled and logged, making it difficult, if not impossible, to link the photos to any specific area of the scene. Separate pieces of evidence were bagged together instead of separately, causing cross-contamination . . . Police even used a blanket that came from inside the house to cover Nicole Brown’s body, contaminating the body and anything surrounding it. Beyond poor evidence collection techniques, sloppy maneuvering at the scene caused more bloody shoe prints to be left behind by LAPD than by the perpetrator.” Plus the bloody fingerprint on the gate was never collected.
A little more emphasis on the truth please.
Biff said...
" As for the "something is in the water" crowd in general, do you really think that crowd is more on the Right than the Left?"
Exactly. Remember when fracking was going to kill everybody through their water? Matt Damon even starred in a movie about it. That whole world-is-ending catastrophe was just allowed to disappear without anyone talking about how wrong they were.
hpudding,
If covid jabs were so unassailable, why did FDA maneuver to hide Pfizer data for damn near the age of Joementia? That sort of obscuring could hamper your so-called peer review process.
OK, I listened to about half the Rogan podcast. I’m not a virologist or epidemiologist, so I can be somewhat open-minded about the vaccine question. But I am a physicist, so when he started in on cell phones and WiFi causing brain cancer, that was enough for me. He’s a nut.
While he won't win the nomination, it would be hilarious to revisit these comments from our resident lefties in September of 2024 if Kennedy did win the nomination. I can pretty much guarantee all them except for Robert Cook would turn on a dime and proclaim Kennedy the most rational and thoughtful candidate ever nominated. You would even have Peter Hotez and hpuddinghead praising Kennedy's vaccine stances and attack the Republican candidate for lying about it.
Biff,
The anti-vaccine crowd prior to the COVID-19 vaccines was almost 100% on the left- made up mostly of liberal suburban women. Kennedy is literally proof of that. Where the right took on the COVID vaccines wasn't as an anti-vaccine stance but, rather, a stance against the government mandates to take them.
Scientists and physicians actually do debate. It’s called a peer-reviewed publication process and it removes showmanship, demagoguery, charisma, politics, and just focuses on the facts and substance of the medical or scientific argument.
Lol.
Never mind his vaccine beliefs (though I think they are mistaken). The man has similarly moronic beliefs about the environment and so-called global warming. He's a well meaning but not very bright man with outsize influence because of his name. Sure, it's fun to watch him disrupt the Biden circus, but this is not a man who should be anywhere near the levers of power.
hpudding @ 6:36 PM,
You can't seriously think that that is what peer reviewed publication is.
People who lived through the rigors of the coronavirus pandemic may demand that the experts prove they were worthy of the trust and obedience they demanded.
That's for damn sure. For some reason we threw everything we know about epidemiology out the window. It wasn't just the safety and effectiveness of the vaccines they had to backtrack on, but the masking and lockdowns too, as well as the origins of the virus. People with little or no scientific training made better calls than the "experts", again and again and again.
Even if they hadn't bungled things so badly, an expert in virology is not necessarily an expert in immunology or epidemiology, much less an expert in law, psychology, ethics, or the analysis of cost/benefit ratios. These are big issues that merit vigorous public debate, and input from NON-experts is critical. I believe it was Hayek who said the most evil and irrational thing mankind could do would be to allow experts unbridled liberty to see their most cherished goals enforced by law.
At the root of all these sneering leftist demands that we obediently follow "The Science" is a belief that scientists and academics, politicians and government workers, journalists and entertainers, and the rest of the elites are made of a finer clay than the rest of humanity. They want us to believe that "their kind of people" are immune from conscious or unconscious bias, or dishonesty, or cupidity, or vanity, or sadistic cruelty. The louder these calls for the rest of us to shut up become, the more I hate the busybodies making them, and the greater my determination to disobey and resist and sabotage them at every opportunity going forward.
Aggie said...
"RFKJr is very clear that his opinions do not originate with him, but are grounded in scientific discovery and a review of medical records. And his discussion of the use of poisons as adjuvants (during the Rogan podcast) is also eminently reasonable. He is not a nut "
I suspect Wifi radiation has oppened up Aggie's blood-brain barrier.
RFK Jr now sounds more sensible
So you find his claim that WiFi and cell phones cause cancer to be sensible, Michael Kennedy?
Maybe you could let us know what you’re doing about that claim. Getting rid of the cell phones or embracing the cancer?
Too funny. Keep promoting this guy.
I can pretty much guarantee all them except for Robert Cook would turn on a dime and proclaim Kennedy the most rational and thoughtful candidate ever nominated.
Trump says that windmills cause cancer. If reason and thought mattered to conservatives they could let us know what they think of that one.
He also wanted to try testing ways of getting disinfectant into the body as an antiviral treatment.
Kennedy was invited to Trump Tower after he won for a reason. Conspiracy nuts of a different feather, finding ways to yet flock together. Trump does it cause he likes controversy and the pretension to knowing things so he can feel like he sounds smart in front of doctors. Kennedy probably does it because he’s a nut with a savior complex of his own - or is too embarrassed to admit Wakefield was a fraud.
Conservatives can have them both.
Kucinich...Kucinich...he's that guy who's dad was mailman, right? Pees with his hands on his hips? Yeah, I think know who that is.
Kucinich is the one who looks like Alfred E Neumann.
Lefty Norman Finklestein rates Obama as a complete intellectual fraud,
Its taken long enough, When he gave the "the speech" I asked what are his accomplishments?
Nothing, until he was elected to the Illinois Senate, then the US Senate. Both of those elections he ran unopposed, due to his competition dropping out of the race. The one for US Senate, the mans sealed divorce records, somehow got unsealed. He is famous for "the speech", that launched his Presidential bid. From there he has only done less.
All people have strength and weaknesses....Obama, somehow lacks a single strength, other than scamming the media.
Buried lede: Kucinich?
What in the actual Fuck?
Readering said...Gusty Winds I've had 5 shots. Plan to get 6th next month, a year after 5th. As far as I know, I've never had covid. Also never had much reaction to any of the shots. Know plenty who've had 5 or 6 shots. Rarely wear a mask any more, but every day encounter those who still do.
I don't believe you. Plus, a sixth has not been officially recommended by the "experts" so the "plenty" of people you know are nuts. But even if you are on your way to a sixth, what are you accomplishing? What's your point/goal? But, put whatever you want in your body. I recommend beer and cigarettes'.
Would you give six of these poison shots to a child or young adult?
If you are still running into people who are wearing masks, you are simply encountering the mentally ill.
@Mutaman and @hpudding are good with calling RFKJr a crank or a nut. They make a solid case with the taunts and the 'He's Crazy!' false associations. And comfortable using the ol' tried & true broad brush of tarring-by-association.
Are they also good with censoring a declared Presidential Candidate? Good with that?
In defiance of Constitutional Law, even? Good with that?
Happy with Joe Biden's personal performance as POTUS? High Marks?
Are they also good with pharmaceutical companies enjoying total immunity from prosecution, civil or criminal - even though they are serious past offenders, serial court-case losers, big fine payers? Good with that?
In spite of the documented record of injuries to patients, far in excess of the norm? Good with that? Had your shots?
Are they also good with allowing pharmaceuticals to enjoy the highest rates of lobbying, by far, on Capital Hill? Unfettered access to our politicians, some of whom are possessing of an unseemly.....eagerness. Good with that?
To say that Kennedy is a crank or a nut is a very convenient way to avoid discussing his successes, or the salient points of his arguments. Convenient, that. Lazy, that. Not intellectual; Not reasoned; Not rational; Not democratic. What do you call that?
So that's where Kucinich went! His name came up in the last week and no one in the group (in Ohio) had a clue what he was up to now. His participation does not speak well for RFK,Jr. chances.
I have had the opinion for years that Kennedy doesn't have a great track record for how he treats women in his personal life (something Kennedy men tend to do). As a result I have not looked closely into his views.
How people react to voice will be interesting to see. He has Spasmodic Dyphonia - I don't know what kind. My sister has it as well and gets botox in her vocal cords as needed - about every 6-8 months. She has learned the signs that she is ready for another shot. After a couple days of hoarseness, she is back to pretty much normal. Kennedy's voice may sound odd but should not impair his ability to do the job.
Kucinich? You must be this tall to drive a major city into bankruptcy.
"Trump says that windmills cause cancer"
A quick search of scholar.google.com will provide plenty of evidence that wind turning noise affects quality of life, increasing the stress hormone cortisol, and raising blood pressure. Wind turbine noise is rated as more disturbing than traffic noise.
Traffic noise has been associated with cancer
The present study suggested that long-term exposure to residential road traffic noise might increase the risk for colon cancer, especially distal colon cancer.
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10552-017-0904-0
Now let's look at cortisol and cancer, cortisol that has been shown to be increased by wind turbine proximity, search it for yourself.
A standard deviation increase in genetically predicted plasma cortisol was associated with increased risk of endometrial cancer (odds ratio 1.50, 95% confidence interval 1.13–1.99; P = 0.005).
If they aren't finding a direct association between wind turbine noise and cancer, it's because there is no funding looking for it, unlike the association of cancers with less stress-inducing traffic noise. But tic-tac-toe, it's there.
"Where the right took on the COVID vaccines wasn't as an anti-vaccine stance but, rather, a stance against the government mandates to take them."
As well as the fact that the definition of "vaccine" was changed so that the experimental covid shot could be called one, which seems to be often overlooked by many.
My favorite part of the story on Trump talking about wind turbines is when it quoted a Department of Energy claim that wind turbines did not pose a threat to birds, painting Trump as a liar, when there are studies showing that they are an ongoing threat to the endangered golden eagle.
High levels of collision mortality are well documented for Golden Eagles at the Altamont Pass Wind Resource Area (APWRA) in California (Smallwood and Thelander 2008, Smallwood and Karas 2009), where published estimates of annual mortality ranged as high as 66.7 to 75.0...
https://meridian.allenpress.com/rapt/article-abstract/47/3/311/436712/Bald-Eagle-and-Golden-Eagle-Mortalities-at-Wind
This is from the "I'm feeling lucky" first hit on Google scholar. Face it, the MSM has been totally co-opted by the cabal running our government, the one that finds Joe Biden's craven corruption as a feature, not a bug, since it makes him pliable to their wants. If I had billions of dollars, I would prefer a president who can easily be bought, and the billionaire oligarchs world-wide all seem to love Joe Biden and hate Donald Trump.
"Scientists and physicians actually do debate. It’s called a peer-reviewed publication process and it removes showmanship, demagoguery, charisma, politics, and just focuses on the facts and substance of the medical or scientific argument. It is a debate,"
As someone who spent a career participating in both sides of the "peer-reviewed publication process", let me assure you hpudding, the process is far from a debate. Peer-review, in most cases, is a cursory check of a submitted paper. And as to removing "showmanship, demagoguery, charisma, politics,…", that's very naive.
"Trump says that windmills cause cancer"
I wouldn't be amazed if they do, as others above have noted the potential relationship between cancer and stress. There is a new wind farm in SW Wisconsin on the route I travel to reach my astronomical observing site. Went up within the last year. It breaks my heart traveling that route now. Monsters towering over the homes and farms of what was an idyllic landscape. Those poor people.
I think you can have studies that would find that just about anything causes cancer or has health benefits, like the studies that show the health benefits of alcohol.
There's so many types of cancer and everything is always a risk vs benefits as well as figuring how to mitigate the risks. Also, note, cancer is also a failure of the immune system to stop mutated cells from proliferating.
It's highly unlikely I'll vote for RFK Jr, but I'm glad he's in the race. I think he and Vivek can both have a positive impact by shining a light on various issues that aren't getting enough attention.
For me, it's not so much that RFK Jr sounds more sensible, but that they no longer sound as crazy to me as they would have pre-Covid. Given the mainstream media's coverage of the lab leak theory, I want more information before I even judge something labeled a "racist conspiracy theory".
Yeah, vaccine manufacturers spend no time whatsoever on side effects. Never crosses their minds.
As someone who spent a career participating in both sides of the "peer-reviewed publication process", let me assure you hpudding, the process is far from a debate. Peer-review, in most cases, is a cursory check of a submitted paper. And as to removing "showmanship, demagoguery, charisma, politics,…", that's very naive.
That’s fine, Mike. We could always have our politicians doing our science, instead - as many on the right would seem to prefer.
Myself, I figure people actually making the observations and doing the experiments are more likely to be making the arguments worth considering.
If they aren't finding a direct association between wind turbine noise and cancer, it's because…
It’s because it’s total bullshit made up by a politician who can’t figure out how to give coal miners a better quality of life. Even coal lobbyists would never say something as ridiculous, and their workforce are consigned to only 25 years of useful employment and healthy living before being stricken ill with black lung - requiring subsidies from the government for oxygen and medical care of their known toxic industry.
If there were a direct association between windmills and cancer then that’s easy to study or even just observe - as we do with coal miners and all the death and illness their industry visits upon them. And the only meaningful way to make your conclusion.
You can’t substitute that with some Rube Goldberg-sequence of a conjectural slippery slope talking about how since windmills cause as much noise as a refrigerator at 300 meters (43 dB), they must therefore raise cortisol levels enough to cause cancer. Do refrigerators cause cancer, too? What about the fact that most people live way further away from a windmill than 300 meters?
Just stop making things up. And stop listening to the guy who said ingesting disinfectants should be a great investigational treatment for COVID. He didn’t check all his facts before shooting his dumbass loud mouth off on that one, either.
https://www.ge.com/news/reports/how-loud-is-a-wind-turbine
It breaks my heart traveling that route now. Monsters towering over the homes and farms of what was an idyllic landscape. Those poor people.
If only your heart were a normal enough size to break for all the victims of the fires, flooding and droughts cause by carbonizing the atmosphere. Nope, just for the supposed horror of a big clean white stick in the sky providing energy without going through the hoops of paying off a powerful exec for receiving the resources extracted from his property rights to our… air. Oh no. What a horror.
But mercury poisoning, smokestacks, acid rain, tar sands, flammable methane-enriched tap water and a polluted ground table would suit you better. I guess bad morals and bad taste really do go hand-in-hand.
Aggie said...
'To say that Kennedy is a crank or a nut is a very convenient way to avoid discussing his successes'
What "successes"? If his name was Joe Smith he'd be selling insurance up in Rhinelander.
RFK Jr.: Wifi radiation opens up your blood-brain barrier so all these toxins that are in your body can now go into your brain.
Rogan: How does wifi open up your blood-brain barrier?
RFK Jr.: Now you've gone beyond my expertise.
And stop listening to the guy who said ingesting disinfectants should be a great investigational treatment for COVID.
If he actually said that, you wouldn't need to continually lie about it.
The problem, Jim, is that Ms tapioca thinks that disinfectant = bleach. While bleach is a disinfectant, most disinfectants are not bleach
Uv, sunlight, certain other lights, fire, heat, alcohol, ammonia, electricity, gamma and xray radiation, steam and a host of other things are disinfectants.
Chlorine bleach is not harmful, my be good for you in some concentrations. I try to drink a couple of liters of bleach every day. We call it "tap water" it's the dose that makes the poison and I drink very dilute bleach.
President Trump when talking about internal disinfectants was quite specific that he was talking about the internal us of UV light which was in clinical trials at that time.
John lgb Henry
flammable methane-enriched tap water
That actually occurs naturally and has for thousands of years in many parts of the world
Assistant Village Idiot said...
Yeah, vaccine manufacturers spend no time whatsoever on side effects. Never crosses their minds.
--
When they get concerning data, they seek ways to bury it, like the Pfizer files for 70 years.
And no liability is hardly an incentive for oversight.
Pile them into a child's immune system without any understanding of what that combined schedule does.
"If only your heart were a normal enough size to break for all the victims of the fires, flooding and droughts cause by carbonizing the atmosphere."
There has not been an increase in fires, flooding or drought.
"Myself, I figure people actually making the observations and doing the experiments are more likely to be making the arguments worth considering."
What do you do for a living?
Settled Science
I recommend to you, hpuddin, the book "Unsettled" by Steven Koonin. The author has all the credentials you believe in worshipping.
Blogger hpudding said...Myself, I figure people actually making the observations and doing the experiments are more likely to be making the arguments worth considering."
Excellent! Then surely you will be open to hearing the views of John Cristy, who has more experience "making the observations" than anybody else in the field.
Enjoy!
There has not been an increase in fires, flooding or drought.
How nice that there are random guys like you on the internet who not only seem to think they know more than NASA, the insurance industry and farmers but anyone who’s lived in California, eastern Australia, Nova Scotia or the northwest or Midwestern US in the last four years. Do us all a favor and build your next house on Mount Kilauea or Helheim Glacier, Greenland.
What do you do for a living?
Currently I’m running your campaign for public office. Although we’ll have to work on changing your campaign slogan, which is: “Trust the politicians, not the science or data!”
I’m also looking for an insurance job underwriting the homeowner’s policy on that property you’re looking to buy in the Maldives.
It’s interesting conversing with someone so divorced from reality that he may as well have cited “irreconcilable differences.” Did you sign a prenup?
No one said anything about credentials or worshipping. (Although you seem to worship anyone who can politicize a finding without actually engaging it honestly and seriously). I’m saying that data matters (as does factual reality). Gad Saad is a marketing professor - if you think marketing is about data and honesty then I’d feel sorry for anyone working for a business you’d care to start. Advertising is 99% spin. Next thing you’ll probably tell me about how honest the cigarette manufacturers were about the safety of their product. (A treasure trove of hidden company documents and internal research over decades to the contrary apparently notwithstanding). They were represented by the same lobbying firms that then went on to spin and lie on behalf of the fossil fuel companies. Read Merchants of Doubt.
Again, one guy has a “view.” That’s nice. I suppose all other evidence and a consensus of the observed data and explanations must now yield to whatever one guy cherry picked. Again, you’re making it about credentialism and worshipping some crank’s rejection of climate and the atmosphere - as if the two have nothing to do with each other. I’d call your selection arbitrary but of course it’s not - you only put stock in fools promoting your predetermined conclusion - which is whatever the fossil fuel companies told you to think. I guess once the damage is that much worse in decades you could say your sorries to humanity then, but of course the global temps could rise to a point where habitation, agriculture and every other required need for humanity crumbles and you’d still arrogantly insist on some inexplicable or weaker cause or deny outright the observed conditions (data) regardless. For you denying carbon’s relationship to climate is a religious belief.
There are frogs in slowly boiling pots with longer attention spans than that.
And again, this all started on a thread about Bobby K Jr’s discredited and persistent association of vaccines with autism, and as others note - how he’s made up nonsense of health effects pertaining to cell phone use and WiFi. If you really believe this is your case study about how mainstream medicine on those topics is wrong and Kennedy is proving how corrupt science is, then just say so. I know that you have no data to support that and you’ve proven by now that you don’t care to - as all you’ve done is appealed to second-hand sources such as statements by those whom you prefer to hear. You are proving that you prefer your science politicized and, whenever possible, according to the right-wing narrative which is based on denying human agency in anything for the positive and an impotent refusal to work toward that end.
"Again, one guy has a “view.”
Look at who that guy is. He's the one taking the data!
You're the one who said "Myself, I figure people actually making the observations and doing the experiments are more likely to be making the arguments worth considering.". If you're sincere, you'll actually do that. Watch the Cristy video, (it's only 15 minutes), read Koonin's book (admittedly, a little more effort but it's an important endeavor if you believe the world's ending) and think for yourself.
No, he’s not the only one. He doesn’t have some secret access “choke point” to which all others doing so must yield. Although, given your love of extraction industries and the exclusive property rights a few powerful people have to them I can see an interesting parallel.
He’s just one crank. Einstein was a crank on quantum mechanics. Linus Pauling a crank on megadosing vitamin C. Both of them very wrong, but at least they had actual accomplishments outweighing the incorrect crankiness that they relegated tangentially to a few more offbeat interests.
If you can’t explain why that guy is right on what you want to declare everyone else to be wrong about then I have no reason to watch. As with the original posts on this, just being impressed with someone is different from providing that you can explain what made their facts or reasoning superior. I appreciate that you can be a fanboy with a hero to promote, but that’s not enough for me to be interested. And it’s how cults operate, not reasonable, independent-minded observers.
A 15 minute video by the guy who developed and continues to run the satellite temperature dataset and you won't watch it. You are one stubborn dude.
You don't read any of the science being produced, do you? You just read article written by journalists. You are ill informed.
I don’t do other people’s homework for them and I don’t agree to be indoctrinated by whatever indoctrinated them. If you can’t bother to factually explain your evidence/“reasoning” for rejecting AGW then then there’s no point for me to waste my time watching your preferred recruiter for proselytizing to the cause.
You’ve given me way less than 15 minutes of anything to provoke thought on its own so to check out your online boyfriend on the matter is the equivalent of being handed a toy that a toddler likes playing with so that he can demonstrate his generosity. In which case I might say, that’s so nice - I hope you enjoyed your toy and thank you for sharing it with me! Or responding to an evangelist or recovering alcoholic by thanking them for wanting to share the inspiration for their evangelism or recovery with a nice thanks, but no thanks.
Try being more of a grown-up.
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