The city medical examiner ruled Wednesday that Neely’s death was a homicide due to “compression of neck (chokehold).” Witnesses say that Neely was having a mental episode when another straphanger, identified as a 24-year-old Marine from Queens, took him down from behind and placed him in a chokehold for about 15 minutes. Still, Adams stressed that there are “so many unknowns at this time.”
४ मे, २०२३
"This honestly feels like a new low: not being able to clearly condemn a public murder because the victim was of a social status some would deem ‘too low’ to care about."
Tweeted Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez, quoted in "Mayor Adams rips AOC for rush to conclude that Jordan Neely was 'murdered'" (NY Post).
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We have been aggressively accosted many times while riding the BART system in the Bay Area.
Fortunately we have been able to walk away from these situations and contact the station agent.
The problem here (San Francisco) is that there are NO BART cops at the stations.
They have their own police force and cars, but seem to ride around from station to station, so they are never actually there when you need them.
There is quite a fight about whether it was justified or not. That AOC jumped too quickly to call it murder only heightens my sense that it is not clear. I have not seen the video and will not weigh in until I do. (I might watch the video if I come across it and it's not too long, but I am not looking for it.)
George Floyd 2.0.
Ben Crump to hold presser today on his representation of the family.
Yes, yes, yes AOC! Let's relitigate 2020 and have more "mostly peaceful protests" in NYC. Let's defund the police and defund the military too. Let's send even more of the NY tax base out of state and ensure the rapid decline of your district. You already drove Amazon away. You won't be happy until NYC is literally hell on earth.
"Escape from New York" is turning out to be a prescient documentary instead of dystopian fiction. "Idiocracy" was set 1,000 years in the future but came true in ~10 to 20 years.
AOC said...
This honestly feels like a new low: not being able to clearly condemn a public murder because the victim was of a social status some would deem ‘too low’ to care about.
Refresh my recollection: What did AOC say about the "public murder" of Ashli Babbit, her "social status" deemed "too low" once the media immediately circled the wagons?
"...because the victim was of a social status some would deem ‘too low’ to care about."
Based on that person's rap sheet, he has been reducing the quality of life of everyone he's come in contact with since before he reached the age of majority, and "that guy your mother told you not to fuck with because eventually you'd meet him" just put his lights out permanently.
But he's not 'too low' for Sandy "Everyone has my nudes but doesn't talk about them" Cortez to care about. He is in fact the perfect victim.
I fucking hate AOC. Nothing bad could happen to her that I wouldn't like and pour a cocktail to celebrate.
Well, the homicide may have been a crime, but it was not murder.
AOC is an opportunistic moron.
AOC likes headlines. Of course she's going to weigh in on something that happened.
She has also, as expected, changed how Mayor Adams criticized her.
All very typical.
Can you talk about this without thinking about George Floyd? I've always thought Derik Chauvin was railroad, and Floyd would be alive today if he didn't have fentanyl in his system, and didn't resist arrest.
The pictures in the Post article are disturbing. I'm sure there are many New Yorkers that are sick of risking their lives to ride the subway. There will be more citizen reactions / over reactions to come.
But that photo looks like the marine is choking the life out of that man. Who is the person holding Jordon Neeley by the wrists? It seems like he is helping restrain him while being choked.
This feels more like the 2014 killing of Eric Garner, when the NYPD choked the life out of him for selling "loose" cigarettes.
So sad, no matter what. Between the inhumanity of tolerated crime in America's cities,
Just to clarify for the non-lawyers out there: homicide isn't murder.
It's legal to kill people. For example, Barack Obama has ordered people killed. Americans even.
It's illegal to murder someone. But it's legal to kill them. Especially if they attack you on a NY subway. Or anywhere else. You have the God-given right to kill them if that's what it takes to subdue them and protect your own life or the lives of others.
And please, remember, before she went to Congress, AOC was a waitress. She's an airhead.
Get back to me when AOC condemns the dozens of murders committed by young Black men in our inner cities every week.
#DoBLM?
I watched the video included with the NY Post story. It's useless in evaluating the situation. If the dead man was just panhandling and the ex-Marine put him in a chokehold for that, then certainly it would be a serious crime, perhaps murder.
According to reports, Mr. Neely was "screaming in an aggressive manner," complaining of being hungry and thirsty. While that doesn't reduce his value as a human being, the general public should be able to ride the subway in peace without being accosted by a mentally ill person aggressively screaming at them, throwing his jacket on the ground. I think most reasonable people would be scared of being attacked by a man acting in that way.
So this is a self-defense or defense of others case. Was the ex-Marine reasonably in fear that he or others were in imminent danger of being attacked by Mr. Neely? Was the amount of force he used to prevent such an attack reasonable in the circumstances. Did the ex-Marine go straight for a chokehold, or did he try to calm Mr. Neely down first? Did Mr. Neely attack the ex-Marine after the ex-Marine intervened with him to try to protect the other passengers from this aggressive yelling? These are the questions that will be asked.
One thing I can guarantee. If Mr. Neely had attacked and killed the ex-Marine, this would not have been any more than a one-paragraph blip in the local paper.
I have seen video, but it only shows what happened after the take down occurred, not what proceeded it. So, I can't say the action was justified or not. I do know some of the witnesses say that Neely only threatened people verbally, but I don't know if that was an honest assessment or not. This particular incident, in my opinion, is much closer to being a murder than the George Floyd incident- much closer.
Subway riders put up with so much shit on certain trains. Yet our rulers want to force us into the cities and onto public transit.
Anyway, semper fi.
This is truly disgusting. A mayor seems to be trying to fulfill two fundamental responsibilities of a leader: encourage calm in the face of racial division, and patience until all the facts are presented.
A congresswoman and social media celebrity is going out of her way to encourage racial hostility and a rush to (legal) judgement.
EVERYONE now knows that the first 24 hours or so after an incident are filled with half-truths and warped perspective. Therefore, ANYONE still declaring verdicts in that time period knows damn well what they are doing. We will see if the AOC way or the Adams way prevails. I fear Adams will cave shortly and join the mob he tried to prevent from forming.
MAYBE if he were in PRISON, like he SHOULD have been, this could have been avoided, but since NY loves their criminals and let them roam free...expect more of the same. But don't worry. The RACIST al sharpton is there to invoke violence.
"Jordan Neely, 30, had been yelling and pacing back and forth on an F train in Manhattan on Monday afternoon when he was restrained by at least three people, according to police and witnesses.
A spokesperson for the New York Police Department told Newsweek that Neely's record includes 42 prior arrests, dating between 2013 and 2021. They include four for assault and others for transit fraud and criminal trespass. At the time of his death, Neely had one active warrant for assault, in connection with a 2021 incident." -https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/jordan-neelys-criminal-record-man-killed-on-subway-had-40-prior-arrests/ar-AA1aIW22
people like giving them a soapbox
Shocking as it may seem, US law recognizes your right to use lethal force to protect yourself or others from death or serious bodily injury. Believe it or not, Althouse, it’s entirely possible that the young Marine may have been subject to court martial had he stood by and done nothing to stop the man from harming someone.
Mental midget congressman from Queens calls this a "public murder."
Wow! Just Wow!
Congresswoman and coroner!
The butterfly effect?
Well AOC can fuck right off. Let’s see her ride the subway and deal with the shit going on. Elitist little fuck.
The way she trashes ordinary people day in and day out (while never doing anything tangible for the “oppressed” she’s always claiming to champion) she’d be lucky to have a Marine nearby to protect her like this guy did.
We know he was harassing people
We know, and the people know, the people won't protect them from that harassment
We know that therefore one of the peopled the job the police won't do
If it's homicide, he was killed by the leftists who refuse to protect the public
So, by all means let's throw the mayor, the police chief, the DA, and AOC in jail for this death
The Marine, otoh, deserves nothing but praise
I'd like to see AOC actually pass a law that provides more mental health funding for severe and persistent mental illness, but she will not do that. She will instead use her platform and her power to tweak her political enemies rather than to do good.
Did she tweet that from her Tesla.
She called a happening two buildings away a life threatening experience. Compare/contrast.
Deranged nut jobs on the subway have a much higher body count than concerned citizens.....Good for this guy. Nut jobs have a tactical edge over concerned citizens. The concerned citizen doesn't know how far the nut job is willing to go, but he can assume the crazy person will act crazy. I can see why this guy didn't want to relax his grip.....AOC's statement is despicable. What's really disturbing is that this statement will not cause her to lose any votes in her district.
Shades of Bernie Goetz. In Goetz's case, IIRC, claimed he was being robbed at the time of the shooting. I think that was disputed. Regardless, Goetz was acquitted of the attempt murder charges. I gotta believe this ex-Marine will be charged with murder. I wonder if any of the bystanders that failed to intervene will also be charged with something? Who knows if a Manhattan jury will convict or not.
If the helpless citizens of New York, SanFran, LA, Chicago, Seatle, Portland, and dozens of other Democrat-dominated cities teetering on the brink of barbarism enjoyed their constitutional rights unimpeded by self-styled elites, the lunatic Jordan Neely would have been culled long before this incident.
Sandy Barmaid likes violence on the subway because she never rides it. She grew up in an upper middle class suburb and went to a Boston college where she learned nothing, like most college grads today.
If not this one, who will represent the voice of the idiot? Public servant indeed.
Adams is doing the right thing by not jumping to conclusions while AOC jumps to confusion. That said, 15 minutes seems like a long time to keep someone in a chokehold, and I wouldn't be surprised if there's a manslaughter charge.
Will wait for the investigation. Having ridden the NYC subway extensively over the course of a week one year ago, I'm surprised that people aren't put in chokeholds more often. It was normal to encounter raving, aggressive mad men down there. Still a wonder if the world.
Deinstitutionalization was a mistake. There's nothing compassionate about leaving a mentally ill person to wander the streets alone and afraid.
Did a little research. The homeless man, that AOC claimed was just hungry, threatened harm to everyone within reach including a statement he “was ready to go back to jail”. How often the man had been in jail was not known by the potential victims, but that he had been violent enough to be jailed was proclaimed by the homeless man. He had been arrested many times.
However, the government has let down these subway riders. Policies pushed by AOC and Congress has made other means of travel unreasonable for these riders. Other policies have made it difficult for law enforcement to keep these dangerous people in jail. Now AOC wants these riders to not defend themselves, to instead feed this deranged homeless man on demand, and to criminalize taking any other action to physically defend yourself.
AOC also thinks Supreme Court Justices shouldn’t be made secure in their homes.
At what point can we just admit that AOC is advocating for violence and harm to come to others?
That poor marine is going to wish he'd done nothing.
If the homeless guy was white and the Marine was black no one would care. But its the other way round. And the AOC's of the world can't wait to destroy him.
BTW, where were the police?
Finally, you can't charge this guy with violating some police policy on chokeholds. He was just defending himself and other people. That's the difference between him and Chavin. The marine can argue I felt he was threatened and protecting others. iow, self-defense. ANd he was just waiting for the cops, who never came.
They teach every Marine that choke hold in boot camp. We practiced it on each other under very close supervision of the drill instructor staff. They also teach you to never hold it for more that 6 or 7 seconds because after that you could start causing brain damage. This is during training, obviously. If you were trying to kill an enemy soldier you'd hold it until he quit moving.
Holding someone for 15 minutes is definitely an intentional killing. It will up to jury to decide if it was murder or justifiable.
That's really bad outcome. we need to commit the crazies involuntarily. Citizens are fed up.
Good job AOC!
You just contaminated the entire pool, from which jurors might be drawn. The Marine's lawyer should demand the trial be moved up-state.
The great tragedy here is that Jordan Neely's death occurred on the subway, instead of on Riker's Island.
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Let me express what happens when the criminal elements and the criminally insane have no consequences...
Let me express what happens when a population is taught to video and stay on the side during violent or criminal encounters...
Oh wait, I don't need to express it. Our urban centers are showing it.
40 arrests… known by riders of that particular car/route to constantly fuck with/threaten other riders with death or mayhem.
No citizen should have to put up with that crap.
And Alopecia Pressley (MA-D(eranged)), AOC and the rest of ‘em can go straight to Hell.
I saw the video. The guy was fighting the whole time as two others tried to restrain him. If that Marine gets charged with any crime, it will be a new low for Brag and the other lefties who run the dump. Frankly, the public behavior of folks like Neely would change dramatically if they thought there was a realistic possibility that others like that Marine would step in to deal with it.
It's sort of like concealed carry. Mass shootings would sharply drop if the shooters had to factor in the possibility of return fire.
- Krumhorn
I always say it is a rough ride with a psychotic screaming at everyone in the subway car. AOC can't even hack it when the Libs of TikTok lady introduced herself. Sandy flapped off like a frightened chicken. Heaven knows what she would have dome if the psycho was groping her.
Not very impressive, sistah!
Sooner or later ordinary people start to protect themselves from criminals.
The results are not civilized.
Gusty Winds.
Garner was not choked to death. The forearm was in the vicinity of his throat for about ten seconds. He was still alive when he was laid down, claiming he couldn't breathe. That was probably due to his incipient heart failure--he had several related comorbidities.
I spent a lot of time on the mat in college and have the Infantry stuff. I've been choked out in competition with a carotid choke and was fine in a few seconds.
Both the mayor and the governor had told the cops to come down hard on "loosies", missing the tax money, I suppose.
Holding someone for 15 minutes is definitely an intentional killing.
Video taken by someone on the subway shows that the chokehold lasted for 2 minutes and 55 seconds. The "15 minutes" that is widely reported is the time it took the police to respond to calls about the incident. Also, at least two others were involved in restraining the man, so at least two others felt threatened.
Not to say that holding a chokehold for just under 3 minutes is acceptable, I don't know about these things, just saying read the underlying reporting and don't trust the headlines - and especially don't trust AOC's recitation of facts.
A 'homicide ' can be a murder or JUSTIFIABLE HOMICIDE.
Clearly AOC never knew about that or thought about that or even cared if that was true. Par the course for AOC.
BTW folks... Dallas Texas, which I am near, has a DART (Dallas Rapid Transit System) that runs day and night. Sure we have some crime but not a lot.
Why you ask?
EVERYONE HAS A GUN (or dang near everyone.)
Don't hassle people on the DART line folks... it is a dandy way to get shot.
Ben Crump, carpetbagger extraordinaire! He's helping invent a new growth industry. All it takes is the loss under special circumstances of an individual and that person's family is rewarded with riches beyond belief! And Ben is rewarded too! It's a scenario that beats reparations as those may never occur. Perhaps the marine involved in this incident is found not guilty? Doesn't matter! The city-guaranteed "death benefit" check will soon be issued regardless of what happens to the accused. And human nature being what it is, especially in decaying urban environments a family may choose a wayward, non-contributing member of the clan for what I call the Crump Coronation. You can't get more Capitalistic than that!
"At what point can we just admit that AOC is advocating for violence and harm to come to others?"
Check the rearview mirror. We're long past that point.
AOC is a terrorist, a Saint-Just with the vocabulary of Teddy Ruxpin.
Hard for me to see why people believe the 15 minute claim. The train only made a few stops
Well, she's an idiot! What is she trying to do? Incite a race riot?
It's a shame the man died. It's even more of a shame that he was going very quickly down a self-destructive path, aided and abetted and ignored by the people who now say he should have been helped.
"If only we'd known, we could have helped him!"
You DID know. 40 arrests - you DID know. You just couldn't be bothered to help because you were too busy virtue signaling how wonderful and compassionate you were...
First tremors in the preference cascade... I warned all y'all about what was going to happen once enough of the public had enough of the crime and the lawlessness. Most of these Jordan Neely types are going to come to very bad ends at the hands of their rightfully pissed-off fellow citizens, and when that Timisoara moment comes along, ain't nobody going to even blink when one of these characters gets casually offed in front of them. This wasn't even all that bad... The former Marine was just doing as trained, attempting to restrain the idiot. After enough iterations of this, the Neelys are simply going to be thrown out in front of a train coming into station, and there won't be anyone who'll admit to having seen it, let alone knowing who did it.
The point that a lot of the touchy-feely types never seem to grasp is that the unfortunate reality is that the law and the police exist not to protect the general public from the criminal; they need no such thing, mob action being what it is. What is actually necessary is that the criminal-appearing are protected from the public such that they can actually obtain justice. By coddling the actually criminal, protecting malefactors from the natural just consequences of their actions, what the luvvies are actually doing is breaking the general public's confidence and good faith that justice will be done by the system they've willingly signed over their right to private vengeance to. The system doesn't demonstrate that it provides repercussions to the criminal? Fine; someone else will take up that burden.
I guarantee you that you will not like what they do with it, and how they administer it. Jordan Neely is just the first pebble bouncing by; the avalanche will follow, and it will take far more people than anyone can even comprehend today. Likely in far more horrid circumstances.
Bystander.
From the vid it isn't clear whether the hold included compression the whole time, or whether he'd eased up and was preparing to reapply pressure if necessary.
The Marine obviously didn't apply a full chokehold for fifteen minutes. If he had, then Jordan Neely would have been dead in the first five minutes. Even if you have training, it can be very difficult to restrain an adult male resisting restraint, and it's not always going to be obvious "when to say when." It was a tragic situation for all involved. There's a reason I stopped using the NYC subway in the last couple of years, and it's not just the subway: there now are times of day when it can be wise to avoid even the commuter rail into and out of NYC.
See everyone is an expert on “choke holds” which the marine may have been using for a time. No way would this guy have been alive after five minutes of a “choke hold” if applied, not to mention fifteen minutes. . Holding a person down with an arm under their chin is not a choke hold.
There's another kind of "choke hold". It's the edge of the hand across the larynx--from behind--which hurts a lot. That settles a guy down pretty darn quick. But it won't kill unless it crushes the throat in the area of the larynx. Nice to know what, exactly, the ME who knows where his bread is buttered, says happened to the guy's throat.
Wendybar sums it up: he should have been in prison at the time. 40 arrests. He brutally attacked a random elderly woman, punching her and putting her in the hospital with a cracked skull. Of course no hate crime headlines, so she must not have been Asian or trans. One of those irrelevant type victims.
And it was three men, one black, who were trying to restrain him.
Anyone who has ever been trapped on public transit with a screaming, threatening psycho knows the truth: three law abiding men felt the need to restrain this person. Others were trying to call the police. This highly unusual reaction suggests that the dead guy wasn't just "making people uncomfortable," as the NYTimes' most overrated hag, Roxanne Gay, lies in print today.
Where is the rest of the video of this Clockwork Orange dystopia?
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