Richard Dreyfuss has a point: it's terribly unfair that given today's common-sense notions of casting even the very most brilliant Black actor would not likely be cast to play Richard Dreyfuss. https://t.co/xiYa3ma8mD
— Joyce Carol Oates (@JoyceCarolOates) May 7, 2023
May 7, 2023
The old fool asked, "Do we not know that art is art?"
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Hence the success of the Transformers franchise, Fast & Furious, and Avatar. Anyone can play a giant space robot without offense being likely, if even possible, to any semirational, partially sentient human. Anyone can drive a car too fast and blow stuff up, everyone likes watching that. Anyone can be a 10 foot tall, blue skinned, semi-telepathic native of an imaginary planet, and who is to say that their behavior is offensive or commendable?
I keep waiting for the trailers for "Ass" to appear before one of these films. It can't be long in coming. And it will be a hyuuuge success. HYUUUGE.
"art is art"
Comrade! Check your privilege! Art is a tool. Art must serve Justice, AKA the Party.
Off to the reeducation camp with you.
Anyway, here's another example of the Althousian habit of raising good-faith questions in a bad-faith situation. Time for Dreyfuss to drop the naïveté and see the system and our ruling class for what they are.
Diversity [dogma[ (i.e. color judgment, class-based bigotry) is Inequity, Exclusion (DIE) or DIEversity.
ChatTG breaks down the population in color blocs (e.g. "people of color").
Would Dreyfuss be upset to not play Queen Gertrude? Once upon a time Shakespearean tradition had men play the women's roles, too. In our current times he will never play Lady MacBeth. Well, hmm. That's been true for centuries. Who knows now. He played a horrendously bad gay Richard III once. Is that still allowed?
The rules aren't actually the problem. It's the application of the rules that confuses us.
So, following JCO's definition of common sense casting, except for Othello, no black, hispanic, or asian actors should ever get a part in Shakespeare. And how many shows have been redone in the last 10 years with characters who were origanlly written as white men, been recast with black actors. I don't believe that Ms. Oates understands either common sense or acting.
Sebastian: your formulation "raising good faith questions in a bad faith situation" has staying power. I see a lot of that going on now that you've prompted me to look for it.
Sebastian: your formulation "raising good faith questions in a bad faith situation" has staying power. I see a lot of that going on now that you've prompted me to look for it.
Cue up "One Leg Too Few," the (in)famous comedy sketch by Peter Cook and Dudley Moore, showing a casting director dealing with a one-legged actor who insists on auditioning for a role as Tarzan.
Art is perceived with the mind, influenced through consensus.
But a black man, James Earl jones(?) can famously play a white man, Hamlet. He apparently did it quite well,to.
He did not play it in Whiteface, either.
Why could Richard Dreyfuss not play Nelson Mandela? Not in blackface.
He could not, not without lots of screaming and drama.
But logic would dictate that he should be able to.
John Henry
Is art really art?
John Henry
When they remake Jaws, the Richard Dreyfuss role of marine biologist will go to a Black man. The shark will be played by some white guy.
I like to recall Dreyfus on SNL decades ago. He sang a torch song, "I Wanna Be Seduced," wearing a pink feather boa, while writhing atop a grand piano. Now, I don't profess to know what Art is, but I know what makes me laugh out loud.
The song was cut from later online editions of the show and I've never seen it again.
The episode also featured a band called Gravity, composed of the show's tuba player and his ensemble of other tuba players. The closest Art I can refer you to for comparison is Tibetan throat singing. It, too, was a unique experience.
The “old fool” also said:
“No one should be telling me as an artist that I have to give in to the latest, most current idea of what morality is. What are we risking? Are we really risking hurting people’s feelings? You can’t legislate that. You have to let life be life and I’m sorry, I don’t think there is a minority or majority in the country that has to be catered to like that.”
Good to see more celebrity voices chiming in on the absurdity of where we are. Curious if they vote accordingly…
Joyce is illustrating how she is ignorant of the very current backlash against Netflix for their stupid black Cleopatra feature that has riled up Egyptians who know their queen was Greek (perhaps Cypriot) but certainly absolutely not black. And being so old I remember The Wiz I think it’s weird for her to imply that black actors are not hired to reimagine white characters. I’m unaware of any remake that did it the other way round.
Someone is going to have to explain to these people that acting and actors have always been inhabiting other people's skins; it's what they do.
During Shakespeare's times, women were not allowed on stage. Female parts were played by males. There were schools of Chinese and Japanese theater which were similar. Were those forms of theater any less valid, any less artistic?
The idiots insisting on this stuff are delusional, un-sane, and forcing their madness on everyone else. The whole point of theater is for the actors to portray someone else, otherwise it'd be a documentary.
If you want to pick a hill to die on, how about insisting on actual, y'know... Historical accuracy? Someone wants to protest the usual hagiography and outright lies in most Hollywood "historical" films, I'd be up for that.
Richard Dreyfuss is one of the most amazing actors Hollywood has ever produced, and the fact that he has only one Oscar is ridiculous. But I just cannot see him credibly doing a black person. He’s great, but there are human limits.
Comedian Godfrey Cambridge largely succeeded going the other direction in “Watermelon Man,” where he played a white bigot who wakes up one morning as a black man. Keenan Wynn as Senator Billboard Rawkins In “Finian’s Rainbow” didn’t do a bad job as a white bigot who is magically turned black, but he still looked like what he was — a white character actor with black makeup on.
Well, Dreyfuss would never have been cast as Booker T. Washington because that would just be stupid, wouldn't it?
Oates may want to walk that back. A black woman stars as Richard III, airing 5/19 on PBS Great Performances. I'm sure the same woman could nail the Hooper part in the upcoming all-black remake of "Jaws."
https://www.pbs.org/wnet/gperf/richard-iii-about/14430/
But a black man, James Earl jones(?) can famously play a white man, Hamlet. He apparently did it quite well,to.
He did not play it in Whiteface, either.
Why could Richard Dreyfuss not play Nelson Mandela? Not in blackface.
He could not, not without lots of screaming and drama.
DEI
Uh oh. Dreyfus is going to need a bigger boat.
JCO fifteen minutes of fame 2023... Check!
Yawn, move on.
I thought Oates & Dreyfus were dead.
Big Mike: "Richard Dreyfuss is one of the most amazing actors Hollywood has ever produced, and the fact that he has only one Oscar is ridiculous. But I just cannot see him credibly doing a black person. He’s great, but there are human limits."
Have you seen the adverts for the new Richard III production at the Liverpool Playhouse?
Never say never. If a Black woman can be Richard III, a Black man could play Dreyfuss.
I don't care who plays whom, if they are good enough so that I'm not constantly being jerked out of the moment of the play/movie/TV show. The actor needs to sell me on the idea that they are the character. It helps if the actor is the correct color and gender, but it's not a requirement if they are good enough. There aren't many that are good enough.
Oates tweets a lot of not-very-well-thought-out stuff.
It's not art without sufficient vagina and melanin.
The Guthrie Theater is doing Hamlet right now. The guy playing Hamlet is Black. Call me crazy, but he doesn't look the least bit Danish to me. But that's okay. The important thing is that the theater and its patrons all get to pat themselves on the back for being so woke.
The woke collect colored folk as if they were baseball cards.
really I thought the black anne boleyn was the height of absurdity,
Thus conscience does make cowards of us all, Richie. Doest thou need a bigger boat?
'Richard Dreyfuss is one of the most amazing actors Hollywood has ever produced, and the fact that he has only one Oscar is ridiculous.'
He's a bit of a scenery-chewer for my tastes.
He's also a famously unhinged lefty lunatic.
So fuck him...
From the beginning of the existence of the USSR, propaganda was an important tool to spread communist ideology and the principles of collectivism. This was done through iconic posters, paintings, films and other works of art. Soviet propaganda was more than just a political instrument – this unique artform left behind a Soviet cultural legacy.
"RNB said...
Cue up "One Leg Too Few,""
Thanks for that.
heh lman
if they had imagination in theatre, you could cast say idris elba as a character like richard the third, who was much maligned by tudor propagandists,
The Merchant of Venice isn’t Jewish.
Richard recently wrote a very "interesting" book, well worth reading.
"One Thought Scares Me...: We Teach Our Children What We Wish Them to Know; We Don't Teach Our Children What We Don't Wish Them to Know"
That’s not a sensible comparison. Entertainment depends for its success on the audience’s willing suspension of disbelief, but the audience is not all-powerful. There are limits to our ability to get past the fakeness of what we are looking at. There are plenty of Jewish people who are not stereotypically Jewish—Jewish isn’t a race. An Asian person looks Asian, a Black person looks Black.
We’re starting to see nonsense casting—closely related people of different ethnic backgrounds. Season 2 of Bridgerton had a family returning from India who actually were Indian, but the show was never clear if they were supposed to be Indian. That was confusing to the point of annoyance. Suppose a show has a White couple with a Black child—is the a plot point? Did the wife cheat? Is that why there is tension between husband and wife? Or are we not supposed to notice that the child couldn’t possibly be the child of this duo? Is that one of the things we’re supposed to overlook as audience members?
Woke casting is just another form of Hollywood narcissism and disrespect for the audience.
Shut up and dribble.
ENOUGH of the RACISM of whites. A Bridgerton actress (black of course) was whining that the Royal Balcony wasn't diverse enough for her. These people are FORCING people to become racist like THEY are.
The Woke left is about 5 people away from turning the tide. JK Rowling. Jerry Seinfeld. The Monte Python guy. Dave Chapelle. Eric Clapton. Richard Dreyfus. Pretty soon those outside the camp will outnumber those inside. And some child will shout “The emperor wears no clothes” and history will happen. It’s getting close to that moment.
Talent Scout (Cook): I don't think the public is ready for the sight of a one-legged ape-man swinging through the jungley tendrils.
Spigot (Moore): You don't?
Cook: No. Look, I have nothing against your left leg. The trouble is, neither have you.
Beyond the Fringe was brilliant stuff (IMHO). Not sure this bit could still be done.
Richard Dreyfuss may be a huge asshole. But he is a good enough actor to convince us that he is not. Unless the role requires us to convince us he is an asshole.
I've liked him in everything I've seen him in.
Especially apprenticeship of duddy Kravitz. One of his first starring rolls
I think I would be shocked to see him walk onscreen as Nelson Mandela.
I also think he would have me so wrapped up in the movie that 10 minutes later I would notice.
John Henry
John Henry
Two of my most treasured opera recordings star Leontyne Price as Butterfly and Tosca. Should race/ethnicity conscious casting have prevented her otherworldly talent from playing a Japanese or Italian woman?
As long as a production (of anything) is excellent, it should not matter who is playing the parts. But we all know that excellence is not the actual goal of any art these days.
Steve Martin worked it the other way.
“if” is a big word, narciso!
Campy won the thread!
Appearance isn't everything, but it is a lot to overcome. I have seen people cast in stage plays who would not ordinarily be considered the right look for several reasons and seen them pull it off. But I have more often seen it fail. The audience will willingly suspend disbelief, but they have limits.
As Dreyfuss should know from playing Richard III in "The Goodbye Girl." Oh, did I say that right out loud?
“I’m unaware of any remake that did it the other way round.”
I played in a whiteface farce of Porgy and Bess once, you need syncopation to carry it.
“Elizabeth, you have become my spouse for this period of time.
Oates saw a meme someone made of King Charles with the comic book character Thanos’s gold infinity glove and THOUGHT IT WAS A REAL ENGLISH MONARCHY RELIC. Why would anyone care what that dried up old scrunt thinks?
If you could be a tree, what kind of tree would you be?
Joe Smith, 1:11:
Dreyfuss is very much on the left, and he has voiced opinions that pissed me off.
On the other hand, his recent project has been civics education, in a very apolitical (or anyway cross-political) way.
I should find it online, but back when Charlton Heston’s Alzheimer’s was announced, Richard Dreyfuss wrote a very touching appreciation of him, wryly noting their huge and heated political differences as well as their friendship, with a pretty good line about the irony - or maybe not - that he was publishing it in National Review. The tribute was heartfelt and classy, and not just any Hollywood lefty would have written it.
A black woman stars as Richard III, airing 5/19 on PBS Great Performances.
A black woman wants to play one of Shakespeare’s most villainous characters? Welll okay then.
Heck, let’s do “Othello” in reverse: have a white man play the title character and maybe Wesley Snipes to play the villainous Iago. Or maybe Will Smith. Plenty of pretty black actresses with whom the lead character can make “the beast with two backs.”
[Dreyfuss is] a bit of a scenery-chewer for my tastes.
@Joe Smith, stay away from Nicolas Cage movies!
who-knew @ 10:34 AM
Bingo.
So JCO is trying to claim that there are NO race / sex "swap" movies happening, with blacks / females take parts that were originally white / male?
Oh, and I note she ignored the whole "only a Jew can play Shylock" issue
because she's a dishonest crap-weasel
I went to a community theater of A Christmas Carol last December, where they had cast a black man as Bob Cratchett.
His wife and children were all lily white, as was the audience, which nearly gasped when he first made his appearance. In the two scenes where he was to kiss his wife he had the good sense to hold up his hat in front of them to hide it from the rest of us.
I'm sure the producers patted themselves on the back for such a bold, diverse casting choice. But they are probably scratching their heads why nobody shows up to any of their future productions.
Richard Dryfuss had to go to rehab for drug use. He's never been a good actor, and he is where he is through friends like Spielberg who constantly put him in their movies.
Some people like him, but then if 5 percent of the USA likes something that 15 million people. So you can always find someone who likes anything. Millions think Ishtar was the funniest comedy ever.
I'll go along with inter-racial casting when they cast a white man as MLK or Malcolm X. Or remake Fiddler on the Roof with an all black cast.
The Guthrie Theater is doing Hamlet right now. The guy playing Hamlet is Black. Call me crazy, but he doesn't look the least bit Danish to me. But that's okay.
The way I'd like to see this done is to Westside Story it. Set the play in modern Chicago.
I laughed out loud at the "dried up old scrunt"! Thank you.
The original Jake From State Farm would like a word with you.
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