So says the NYT ethicist, John Hodgman, responding to a man whose wife "has taken to kissing the dogs" before she kisses him goodbye in the morning (including giving "one of the dogs 'raspberries' on his belly before expecting a goodbye kiss from me").
The ethicist is pretty unsympathetic to the man, though he doesn't get around to the obvious twist on "So much of loving dogs is learning to tolerate repulsion": So much of loving humans is learning to tolerate repulsion.
I wonder if the man tried talking to the wife about his feelings. Maybe they had a funny conversation about it and composed the letter to the ethicist together. But if he's suffering from disgust on his own, then coming up with the idea of writing the ethicist as a solution, then he really is in a terribly beta position vis a vis his wife. And she's consciously or subconsciously openly expressing it with that order of kissing. Does he even get raspberries on his belly?
By the way, it's totally legit to feel repelled by dogs and to decline to "learn to tolerate" it. If that's you and you want community, I recommend the subreddits r/Dogfree and r/TalesfromtheDogHouse.
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It’s just poop…
In many ways they're a lot like babies and toddlers. Baby-gross and toddler-gross gets a revulsion pass (most of the time anyway...) because they're adorable and clumsy.
However, a revulsion 'uncanny valley' does exist for dogs, babies and toddlers. I know it exists because I've been there. It isn't fun.
In NYT world, behavioral and relationship questions can only be solved by an appeal to authority, not by face-to-face hashing out. That's the weltanschauung they've created and cultivated among the paper's "elite" readership.
Make sure to follow the rules if you participate at those subreddits. For example, Tales from the Doghouse are only about people who are living with someone who has a dog and they don't like the dog. It's not for those who got a dog and regret it.
"But is that truly less hygienic than plain old human-kissing?"
Hmm - let's do the comparison. Kissing your spouse and maybe getting a bit of their saliva in your mouth - you know, very much like the saliva in your own mouth, vs. a dose of urine, feces and dog butt.
Yeah, I'd say that would be truly less hygienic. For sure it's truly more repulsive.
I have a dog. They're gross and, if you have one, your house will never truly be clean. Just yesterday, I paid $7,500 to have a sock removed from his intestines because his definition of food is whatever fits down his throat. He will eat anything that fits. But I like dogs, I like having a dog, so I learned to live with their gross habits.
I know people will kiss their dog on the mouth. I do not and would be reluctant to kiss someone who had done it recently. If my wife kissed the dog first and then kissed me even though she knows I would prefer she kiss me first and then the dog, then kissing the dog is not really the problem in my marriage.
"Just yesterday, I paid $7,500 to have a sock removed from his intestines because his definition of food is whatever fits down his throat."
A new dog would have been much cheaper.
When I take my dogs out to the country for a good run, if I've shampooed them recently (usually every 2 weeks), one of them occasionally finds something to roll in. Since this is out in the country, on ranchland, well..... the variety abounds. It could be just grass, or sand and dirt. Or, it could be cow flop, pig sh*t, or something the buzzards couldn't reach. Talk about disgusting! And since home is some distance, this means a truck ride is involved.
So: A bottle of dish soap is kept in the barn, with a rain barrel outside. A bath is going to happen, then and there, with much (gentle) redneck shaming. After all, it's my hands doing the washing off. We don't deserve dogs, but you have to get past the gross-out repulsion stage. And this guy should have a serious talk with his wife.
It's so cool to see the former newspaper of record occupied with such enlightening stuff.
I live with a dog. She doesn't roll around in urine or feces. She doesn't stick her nose or tongue up another dog's butt. She might sniff around a fence post to see who else has been there, but she doesn't lick the post. She and I walk everyday. and I wouldn't exchange her for a Peleton. If you come to my house, my dog will not jump up on you. She will expect you to greet her, but a verbal greeting will do. If you can't handle that, then I will agree to meet you away from my home if I like you, but "Must Love Dogs" is a requirement for anyone I might want to kiss good-bye every morning. In exchange I'll love your cat if you insist. It has been my experience that people who are unable to adjust to sharing their home with a dog are very difficult to live with themselves.
my neatfreak friend with OCD got a dog that wasn't housebroken.. pretty well cured her of her OCD
Dogs don't "Dip their knout" in urine and feces. They just take a good whiff. It has lots of meaning to them. Their mouths and tongues are probably as clean as a humans or a cats.
THe problem with dogs is they need companionship. That means two dogs, or you have to be there for them. Cats can be left by themselves. They like it when you're around, but if you have to leave, they're just fine.
I say, look on the bright side.
How far away is the husband from convincing his wife to eat his ass?
We don't let our dog lick our faces, and my husband would prefer no licking of any kind - but given the social freight that licking represents for dogs, even he considers forbidding it utterly to be mean. So he lets her do a "lick-by" (like a drive-by), as long as she's not "using it to manipulate him." (He's the king of ascribing human motives to pets, and responding accordingly. Cracks me up.)
Dogs are not much grosser than toddlers, in my opinion and experience. But toddlers tend to grow out of it... Nonetheless, I love dogs and am very happy to have one at last, after 20-plus years of doglessness. (My husband, no dog lover, told the kids that if we "had to" move to Texas, they could get a dog. Now we love Texas and the dog is mine, except when she's his.)
Being recently retired, I finally have sufficient time to spend with a dog. I adopted a 9 year-old rescue beagle. He's a good pup and I'm very fond of him, but I am aware that he walks around outside with little regard for where he steps, rolls in the yard, licks every part of himself that he can reach and isn't put off by dead things.
It would be gross to have him in my bed, on the furniture or to lick my face.
I can see how people do. It's mission creep. Watching TV on a lazy day, the owner grows weary of bending over to pet the dog. Is it so bad if he is on the couch with permission? Once that's established, it's a short hop to the bed.
In the article, the man needs to get his wife back on track, and is reluctant to raise the issue. Not a good sign.
Kissing a dog on the mouth is a great way to assess his or her fecal and urine health as well as the fecal health of every dog in the neighborhood.
A wolf researcher claimed he never got sick after living with wolves down in the dirt, as it stimulated his immune system.
Not this source, but I think it was this guy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaun_Ellis_(wolf_researcher)
I have a Golden Retriever who is pretty clean. Doesn't eat poop or roll around in it. I brush him every day and give him pills for fleas and heartworm. He's pretty damn clean. I let him sleep ON the bed, not in it. But otherwise he has a free reign in the house.
He's super friendly and after not having a dog for 30 years, I'm really glad I got him. He's my dawg!
While dogs are wonderful companions for many activities and life sharing, they are filthy beasts. I advocate keeping your distance.
I think that was a subplot in the movie 'Slap Shot.' When the hockey player husband got back from a road trip, he was shown as being far more physically demonstrative with his dog than with his wife, and paying attention to the dog before turning to his wife. All in the service of demonstrating what a cretin, jerk, and bad husband he was. Of course.
A dog trainer we used in IL, (retired AF K-9 trainer and security cop) who lives for dogs and loves dogs gave this unsolicited advice: "Don't ever let a dog lick you. Their mouth's are filthy."
Original Mike said...A new dog would have been much cheaper.
The mere suggestion that we discuss a price point did not go over well with the rest of the family.
One of the things I hate about modern times is how squeamish people have become. Whenever someone whines about something like this it makes me want to discuss the food chain and allowable contaminants with them.
Just kiss the dog and eat the hotdog for Christ's sake.
Our dog is not a licker...
That dogfree reddit is really something. I like dogs overall, have loved a few, and have been greatly annoyed by others. I enjoy my friends' well-mannered dogs because, being allergic, I can't have one of my own. Aside from allergies the downsides are real.
But that reddit, dear Lord what a bunch of miserable people.
I took deworming pills too often as a child who rollicked with family dogs, to let them lick my face as an adult. They lick their own butts clean.
"The mere suggestion that we discuss a price point did not go over well with the rest of the family."
Heh. Are the kids mowing lawns this summer to help pay for it?
How repolting!
Can you imagine if it were the wife who wrote the letter and the husband who was frenching the dog? I think the advice would be the exact opposite, don't you?
"By the way, it's totally legit to feel repelled by dogs and to decline to "learn to tolerate" it."
Now do homosexuals.
I’m still processing the idea NYT has an ethicist on staff. Perhaps to understand the theoretical limits of what they can get away with?
Dogs that eat cat turds in the little box is an enduring TikTok theme.
As a dog lover, I simply don't allow dogs to lick my face.
Original Mike said...
"Just yesterday, I paid $7,500 to have a sock removed from his intestines because his definition of food is whatever fits down his throat."
A new dog would have been much cheaper.
maybe he Really liked that sock? :)
If my dogs were actually as filthy as suggested, wouldn't I be sick a lot more than I am?
A dog's got personality. Personality goes a long way
We live on a ranch and have 13 dogs, all herders. One Aussie, six Corgis, five Auggies, and one Heeler cross. We go for long walks across the pasture every morning where they find fresh horse apples and other stuff to roll in but that's ok. I'm strongly attached to every single one of them and cannot imagine life without several dogs.
Most of our dogs have been outside (farm) dogs, with a few exceptions. When my daughter was little, our black lab licked her in the face before I could intervene. She ended up with pinkeye.
The outside dogs would like to bring their "treasures" up to the house. (As in...very ripe carcasses of something no longer recognizable.) The first time my brother's second wife came to our house, she let the dog lick her on her face. Our whole family (even my brother) went "Ew!!" No, I would never kiss any of my dogs nor would I let them lick my face. Anyone who kissed a dog and then would want to kiss me...not happening.
If you're doing french kisses from the back... black hole... whore h/t NAACP you're doing it wrong. #NoJudgment #NoLabels
whose wife "has taken to kissing the dogs" before she kisses him goodbye in the morning (including giving "one of the dogs 'raspberries' on his belly before expecting a goodbye kiss from me").
It is way easier to train your wife not the kiss the dog, than the dog, not to lick his butt.
We have a dog. She is adorable. But we aren't into molesting it. Way too many people have crossed over a line, when it comes to animals. In that they don't treat them like animals.
I guess its a farm background that keeps me centered.
I live on a farm. I KNOW what my dog licks &eats.
No way, Josie. No thank you.
A sad thing- I don’t much care for my dog. She’s as needy as I am. She’s never happy on whichever side of the door she’s on, has a high pitched bark that is overused and jumps on visitors (all my fault, I know).
Yet, damned if I wouldn’t miss the hell out of her if anything happened. Yet- pretty sure she’ll be our last dog b/c… animals take a lot of care, work and $$$.
&energy.
ps- she’s smarter than I am, but again(my fault.)
I'm no fan of dogs and getting my face slobbered on. They are nasty animals. Cute and lovable, yes. Loyal to a fault, yes. Dirty and filthy, yes.
Did the NY Times mistakenly publish this under their "The Ethicist" heading? John Hodgman is a humor writer and comedy actor, and he's been writing a somewhat tongue-in-cheek advice column for them called "Judge John Hodgman." "The Ethicist," which has been given to a variety of writers over the years, tends to take things more seriously.
That woman doesn't know about dog germs!
Baugh! My lips touched dog lips!.
and always wash your hands after you touch the dog.
Although, dogs got personality.Personality goes a long way.
In my experience, people who hate dogs aren't generally worth knowing.
What are the odds the ethicist would have been as unimpressed by the woman’s complaints if the roles were reversed?
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