Writes Andrew Sullivan in "The Queers Versus The Homosexuals/We are in a new era. And the erasure of gay men and lesbians is intensifying" (Substack).
"[T]he oldest and deepest slur against homosexual men is that we are not truly men; that our love for men renders us some kind of female. We spent decades insisting otherwise — only to have the queers tell us we’re just performing masculinity. Insisting on our essential maleness was intrinsic to gay liberation; as was the celebration of the intact male body, and its beauty. Just as the religious right told gay men to get used to liking vaginas, so too does the queer left. And just as the Christianists told us we weren’t men, so too do the queers.... I have almost no hope that gayness, and especially gay kids, can survive both the queer and the Republican onslaught.... [W]e have to be insistent that the gay experience is distinct and different and not intrinsically connected to either queer ideology or the trans experience...."
Posts
65 comments:
I appreciate his comparison to conversion therapy. I cannot understand why conversation therapy must be made illegal while surgery is given the euphemism "gender-affirming care" and celebrated.
Welcome to the fight, Andrew.
What conclusion should we draw from the fact that Sullivan's (necessary and true) message would be ignored if written by a heterosexual? My conclusion is that this is a mess that has to be fixed by the homosexuals.
Well, if Andrew is going all purist biological here, then he is correct. Homosexuals are men, of course. Andrew is deflecting here.
But what is this "renders us some kind of female?" No one thinks that; they think that gay men - in their beyond-biological whole - are some kind of male. Partial.
There's a gay man on Twitter who refers to the trans movement as Medical Mutilation Conversion Therapy.
Homosexuality is a transgender spectrum disorder that evolved through cultural appropriation (e.g. gay, lesbos), social distancing (from others in the spectrum), celebrated with pride in parades (i.e. lions, lionesses, and unPlanned cubs), albinophobic symbols and rhetoric (e.g. Rainbow, "digital hate"), and misogynistic progress (e.g. two men and a womb - polyamory?). Fortunately, most people do not exercise liberal license to indulge diversity [dogma] (i.e. color judgment, class-based bigotry). That said, "Respect for Marriage Act" is a bigoted conception, civil unions for all consenting adults.
Stating the obvious, but not coming from a Conservative so it will be read. Possibly even accepted by some.
But..."a Christianist' hospital"? Does simply calling it a Christian hospital not work any longer?
I'm tired of reading about people's sexual neuroses. Let's face it, we're in a period of a particularly dangerous fad-ism, if that's a word. Sexual problems have been thrust front-and-center, hogging the spotlight with shrill demands that we learn all about it, and then care. People with medical training, supposedly highly-intelligent people, are promoting the sterilization and lifetime medical misery, for children that sometimes have not even reached puberty. It's not just a disgrace, it's a menace.
No substantial portion of our society believes that 20%+ of our child population is gay/trans/non-binary/whatev's. They are being coached and prodded into thinking this is normal. Homosexuality is not normal; Wanting to pretend you are a different sex is not normal. These things can be simple neuroses that people deal with as they live their lives - but as they are being promoted now, they are pathologies. And now, having created the new pathology, they clamor for protected species status.
This trans/mania strikes me as somehow similar to Weimar Germany, about which I know almost nothing but which has always impressed me with its hyperinflation and sociocultural nihilism. Both of these aspects of its existence --and its collapse-- were unstable and tending toward exponential decay. I mean, once you've inflated your currency by a few orders of magnitude (and thereby destroyed the illusion that it has any "real" worth, except possibly as mulch and fire-starter) what's going to stop you from doing it again; and again? Likewise the nihilism: how do you top the claimed negation of everything once held to be worthy and true? Do it again, only louder.
Here too, we've gone (in say 50 years) from Square Hetero to toleration to militant inclusion to savage attacks on any unbelievers; and that's for "classic" LGB. But there's no stopping point; no principle to invoke other than "do it again, only louder" for an incredibly tiny percentage of the very loudest voices. And it's not just dress and demeanor anymore. It's now a program at the taxpayer's expense of mutilating the mentally unsound and children: none of whom can be said to able legally to consent.
We're making Weimar look good...
Glad to see gay men waking up to what is really going on.
"Don't say gay" is a propaganda lie from the left. Shame on the hack-D press for spreading the lie... but that is what the hack-D-xi press does best.
The law in Florida is an attempt to shelter our children from the left's latest frontier. Confusing our children with trans-insanity at young ages. The movement is also part of the left's speech-crime Marxism.
"Christianist" is such a grating word. Sullivan should ditch it.
I'm not offended by it - it's just tired.
Sullivan also mentions the trans-radical-left's goal to normalize sex with children.
while surgery is given the euphemism "gender-affirming care" and celebrated.
It's called "gender affirming care" because it sounds nice and the Althouses of the world can support it even while they still oppose the much less destructive "female genital mutilation".
Folks listen up, if being gay was in one's DNA then it would be passed to future generations.
But by definition gays don't breed ... thus it cannot be so.
They have learned perversion. And these 'trans' are just men who dress as women and taking the hormones just messes up their minds even more.
These people are mentally ill.
God bless Andrew Sullivan who like his old buddy Glen Greenwald dares to point out the real bullies preying on children. If nothing else we can all agree that generally trannies that bubble into national news are bullies who use violence intimidation and dramatic threats of suicide to guilt liberals and shut up conservatives. The reason the DNC-Media complex seized and pounced on Mulvaney as their vehicle to push into the corporate influencer arena was because he presented a non-threatening light-hearted face for their movement. In other words because he did not have the stink of the bully like Lia Thomas and the wrestlers and the bicyclists and the creepy tranny doctor who “treated” my wife recently and especially all the disruptive rude loudmouth trannies that have appeared in legislative arenas recently. Even that Canadian shop teacher who is punking the district he works for by wearing ridiculous huge fake boobs is doing Limbaugh’s old shtick of “illustrating absurdity by being absurd” and bullying the district into accommodating his silly pantomime and they are powerless to stop him because of their intense fear of the real tranny bullies in power who will side with the ridiculous in order to further the destruction of civilization.
"Christianist hospital?" Seriously?
Despite that stupidity and his preoccupation with Sarah Palin's womb for years, Sullivan may be waking up to the issues transexualism raises for women and gays.
This isn't a new thought for Sullivan. He's been saying this for quite a while. However, he's older and leans somewhat conservative. He won't make a dent.
Anti-gay people are similar to white supremacists.
Their numbers greatly exaggerated by the Hack-D-xi press.
Sullivan does a dis-service by not mentioning that reality.
Well, he's going to be attacked, censored, cancelled and vilified over his opinion.
Well now maybe you will believe the statistics. Long-term studies from countries that require extensive therapy prior to genital mutilation (everyone except us) have found, unambiguously that 80-90% of patients refuse the surgery and realize that they are just gay. This is a surgical holocaust of gay people.
Althouse and her obsession with gay and trans.
After World War II, the world was horrified to discover that the Nazi's had been doing horrific medical experiments on children ... especially sets of twins. Josef Mengele was hanged for his part in these crimes against humanity.
We are going to have to hang a LOT of doctors and nurses here in the United States after the war. Americans are going to have to conduct new Nuremberg trials and build a lot of scaffolds.
What war? The one we're in right now. It's a cold war. But it won't stay that way. America didn't enter World War II until the Nazi's had killed about 6 million people.
But eventually, the war will be over and we can get on with the hangings.
After World War II, the world was horrified to discover that the Nazi's had been doing horrific medical experiments on children ... especially sets of twins. Josef Mengele was hanged for his part in these crimes against humanity.
We are going to have to hang a LOT of doctors and nurses here in the United States after the war. Americans are going to have to conduct new Nuremberg trials and build a lot of scaffolds.
What war? The one we're in right now. It's a cold war. But it won't stay that way. America didn't enter World War II until the Nazi's had killed about 6 million people.
But eventually, the war will be over and we can get on with the hangings.
One of Sullivan's points is that the Left has become insane over this trans business and it detracts from its overall credibility.
The same people who are part of the Cult of Transgenderism are also members of the Cult of Net Zero.
When moderates and low information voters figure this out, it helps us conservatives win.
Movements that can only survive by recruiting grow by 1) recruiting more aggressively, and 2) attempting to expand the recruiting pool.
MayBee: "I cannot understand why conversation therapy must be made illegal while surgery is given the euphemism "gender-affirming care" and celebrated."
Oh, I think you understand perfectly well why the left is doing this. It reinforces so many of their objectives:
Destruction of objective truth and forces people to live in more lies and attacks the family are just 2 of the more obvious reasons for the widespread adoption of this psychotic child mutilating agenda.
Some would also say the demonic nature of this attack on children with mind altering lies and body altering drugs and body mutilating surgery along with the left's relentless push to sexualize children at younger and younger ages to make them available for adult perversions must be viewed as an undeniable manifestation of the ultimate battle between Good and evil.
Andrew Sullivan throws his lot in with all the people who would have forced him to do conversion therapy, in order to tell another person that they are not who they say the are. Talk about pulling the ladder up behind you.
I've been reading lately a lot by and about Gore Vidal, and he observed years ago that men were becoming less masculine (than the hundreds of GIs he reportedly banged), and the women less feminine (though he claimed not to have had sex with any of them).
And he meant physically not just behaviorly. The men were softer and shaped differently.
I guess he was talking about silent gen and younger and he was probably right.
He speculated it was some natural process to reduce population. Interesting guy.
But this here is bloody ridiculous.
"Then the queers upped the ante and did something we gays never did: they targeted children."
Never is pretty strong word, Andrew.
Gender affirming surgery and drugs are objectively sterilization.
Gosh, the definition of the word queer sure has changed a lot during my sixty years on this planet.
"I cannot understand why conversation therapy must be made illegal while surgery is given the euphemism "gender-affirming care" and celebrated."
Gender-affirming care is just a Progressive's euphemism for sterilization.
Progressive America, sterilizing the mentally ill since 1907.
How are we doing on that manifesto?
Tox report?
Whatevs..
It's not men becoming women except in popular imagination.
Girls wanting to become boys outnumber boys wanting to become women 2 or 3 to 1
Both have the effect of extinguishing gays and lesbians.
John Henry
LGB needs to jettison the T ASAP.
Sullivan affirms masculinity, only he insists it includes gay experience. Buttigieg (in the interview yesterday) scapegoats masculinity and labels it a threat (as did his interviewer).
For the beauty of the male form, see Michaelangelo's David.
Best part of the whole mulvaney kerfuffle is not just normal people boycotting A-B. Now the other LGBTQ group (not the ones who want Brandon to quit) are protesting too.
A-B is being boycotted in gay bars
And now they have lost esg die points as well for transphobia.
Too, too funny. Pass the popcorn.
Only thing I can think of to top this would be a "real men of genius" ad saluting mulvaney.
"Democrat with all the powers of local state and federal law enforcement plus a constitutional amendment could not destroy A-B in 12 years of prohibition. You managed to do it singlehandedly in a couple months. "
"here's to you, brand and company destroying minstrel"
Cue the music
John Henry
Male vs female has to do with grudges, suspicions, fears, needs, desires, and narcissistic posturing, all domesticated by partnership. It's essentially brain differences made attractive by genitals.
A gay, it seems to me, though I don't have Camille Paglia's cross-sexual intuitions, lacks the brain differences but is attracted to same-sex genitals. At best a friend plus a sex deal. That doesn't cease being only that if they chop off your dick and replace it with a gash.
Gender is a continuum, regardless if you are straight or gay or bi. There are strong macho men as well as soft sensitive men who are attracted to women, call them heterosexuals. Or those same macho or soft men might be gay. Likewise straight and homosexual women may be femme or butch or somewhere in that continuum. The trans movement/medical providers are trying to poach the very butch lesbians and very feminine gays when they are children, convincing them that they are trans and transitioning is necessary health care. I’ve seen detransitioners ask, why didn’t anyone stop me, I was only a child? Sad because the cost is so great.
Sullivan to the rescue. Brings back memories of the early Blogging days when Sullivan’s writing skill was used to confront destructive propaganda. Where have you been, Mr. Sullivan. Welcome back.
BIII Zhang said...
"After World War II, the world was horrified to discover that the Nazi's had been doing horrific medical experiments on children ... especially sets of twins. Josef Mengele was hanged for his part in these crimes against humanity."
Mengele was NEVER CAUGHT. He died in South America.
Andy thought fake conservative Mitt Romney was too conservative to vote for. He will never be on the icky straight white man side.
Was he concerned when kids were claiming to be gay/bi because that was the cool thing?
When first you practice to erect politically congruent ("=") constructs. You were sold out by activists and Democrats. As were women with human rites, as were people with diversity of colors and classes, as were consumers with shared responsibility through progressive prices, as were conservationists through environmental arbitrage, as were employees through labor arbitrage, as were men and women through social progress, as were scientists through conflation of logical domains, etc.
Only a small subset of the population is gay. Of that small subset, only a minor subset is ultra gay or butch. Of that tiny subset only an even tinier subset wants to undergo such treatment. Yet somehow this has become the defining civil rights issue of our moment. WTF....I'd like to bring your attention to a civil rights issue that affects many more people and that has caused a great deal more troubles among the afflicted. Many of our citizens are left handed. Just like righties, they pay their taxes and do their jobs. Some of them like to play golf and do so despite the fact that golf courses flagrantly discriminate against the left. Beyond that is the fact that people of left orientation have very little chance of borrowing a set of left handed golf clubs whilst on vacation. They're left with the unappealing choice of either traveling with their own clubs or forgoing a round....You might not consider this such a big problem, but I'm sure it affects many more people than transgendered children. It's a problem that gets very little attention. Perhaps if activist POLHO's (People of Left Handed Orientation) started dousing themselves with gasoline and setting themselves on fire during major golf tournaments, the world would start paying attention.
This is what we are up against - folks.
Full on denial of SCIENCE. (Wait - they told us the science was settled.)
I love this clip.
The trans-cult are arguing against Science. So awesome!
The trans left are chromosome deniers.
Trans-extremists are chromosome deniers.
"Michael K said...
Althouse and her obsession with gay and trans."
I sometimes wonder if the mother is this way because she produced a gay son, or the son is gay because of the mother's predilection.
Temujin said...
Stating the obvious, but not coming from a Conservative so it will be read. Possibly even accepted by some.
But..."a Christianist' hospital"? Does simply calling it a Christian hospital not work any longer?
No, it doesn't. *sigh*
Andrew Sullivan has spent his whole life mocking sexual conservatives, disdaining their concerns and trampling on their rights. If his enemies on the left destroy him and everything he believes in, it will be what he deserves and I will only laugh. Comme Saturne . . . .
You can't identify as trans. Either you are trans or you aren't. The only way to be trans is to cut off/out the offending parts of your body.
William said...
...I'd like to bring your attention to a civil rights issue that affects many more people and that has caused a great deal more troubles among the afflicted. Many of our citizens are left handed.
Aren't these "people" sinister? AREN'T THEY????
ps. gilbar is lefthanded. Do the dexterous even Realize? that BOWLING BALLS are discriminating?
BOWLING BALLS!!!
Hey Andy! You vote for Democrats, and this is entirely to be expected. So quit yer crying.
Human life is binary with few and far between exceptions. The male and female sexes are complementary from conception. The secondary sex features (gender or sex-correlated attributes) are aesthetically pleasing and functional (e.g. sexual orientation). Society further establishes a favorable juxtaposition (e.g. clothing) of the sexes in order to normalize fitness. The only big bang in the scientific frame is him and her from whom you and I were created.
"Josef Mengele was hanged for his part in these crimes against humanity."
Sadly, he was not. He escaped to South America and somehow evaded capture by Mossad. He had a stroke while swimming and drowned in 1979. The only consolation is that they use his skeleton to teach forensics to students in Sao Paolo, so at least his remains are without rest.
You wanna be a girl thinking you are a man? Have at it. Get some Beignets at at Cafe Du Monde before you start slicing and dicing.
Good grief. I’ve been out gay for thirty five years. Never been in need of someone to affirm me. You don’t like? Fine. Leave me be.get in my face? Might be different but I want to be left alone to live my life. I’m not sniffing hair like Slow Joe.
The SF Chronicle today ran several incendiary reports and editorials of how the LA Dodgers disinvited the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence (that's the group of queer and transgender men dressed as Catholic nuns with names like Peaches Christ) from the Dodger's Pride Night. Apparently, for some reason, Catholics in LA find them offensive, perhaps in the same way black people find blackface unacceptable. The Chronicle correctly points out that the 'Sisters' do charity work, the palliative of choice for many behaviors.
"[T]he oldest and deepest slur against homosexual men is that we are not truly men; that our love for men renders us some kind of female.
The entire trans movement is about bringing back 1950s sexual bigotry.
"You feel X, then you can't be a real man, you must be 'non-binary' or 'trans-female."
The heart and soul of the "trans" movement is the demand that all gender stereotypes are real, and rigid
Ice Nine said...
But what is this "renders us some kind of female?" No one thinks that; they think that gay men - in their beyond-biological whole - are some kind of male. Partial.
Bzzt, wrong. That's EXACTLY what "trans women are real women" means. It means that if you dont' fit all the 1950s gender stereotypes for a man, then you are not a real man.
Either you're "non-binary", or you're a "trans woman".
In either case, you're not a real man
Bill Zhang said Mengele was hanged.
Unfortunately, this monster was not hanged, drawn and quartered. He was never brought to justice and died in Brazil of natural causes.
"Folks listen up, if being gay was in one's DNA then it would be passed to future generations.
But by definition gays don't breed ... thus it cannot be so.
They have learned perversion. And these 'trans' are just men who dress as women and taking the hormones just messes up their minds even more.
These people are mentally ill."
Hot take: This kind of dopey comment is sorta expressing support for trans folks. A trans woman that still has a dick can get together with a trans man that can still be a pregnant person. Everybody is living their true self and gayness/transness is genetically passed to the next generation.
Yur welcome.
BTW, Sullivan is worried that the worst slur against gay men is that they are not real men because the are not masculine. Sheesh.
Re its most traditional definition, "real man-ness" is about spreading seed and making progeny.
Sure, it's fine to change what being a real man means so that we all agree that Sullivan is a real man. But he's a weirdo to fixate on this thing where the worst slur for him is the accusation that he's not a real man. He wants society to pull up the ladder re getting to acceptability. After we all agree that Sullivan is a real man, that's it! F trans folks, they are making Sullivan not a real man.
Got it.
P.S. I remember a TV piece from a long time ago where Sullivan and Hitchens were on to jabber about something or other. At one point Hitchens (as a throwaway unconsidered quip) did make use of some version of this slur re not being a real man re Sullivan. You could tell that for Sullivan that quip was impactful. The flow of the banter was unsettled. Anywho if Hitchens and other folks had not told Sullivan that he's not a real man he'd probably be less fixated on his worry that he's not considered a real man because trans people are allowed to live the way they want to live.
P.P.S.
The conservative case for gay marriage and the gay case for trans opposition. Pull up the ladder!
Post a Comment