Said Whoopi Goldberg, quoted in "Whoopi Goldberg apologizes for using Romani slur on ABC’s The View/‘I’m really, really sorry,’ the actor said, a year after she was suspended from show for saying the Holocaust ‘isn’t about race’" (The Guardian).
Goldberg was disparaging Trump supporters — "people who still believe that he got gy---d somehow in the election" — when she collaterally disparaged Romani people.
The "g" word — used as a verb like that — is highly processed into the language, but it's carrying forward a stereotype, so it shouldn't get by on that ground that it's become disconnected from the original reference. I don't think it's a big deal for someone to have said it, but going forward, you ought to plan to avoid it.
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92 comments:
This is pretty lame.
Don't call them gypsies, but you can't use a derivative of the word for ripping people off either.
Caryn whatever the hell her last name is, is a hateful bigot.
I bet most people don't even know that gypped is related to Gypsies or even that Gypsies are real people.
"The "g" word — used as a verb like that — is highly processed into the language, but it's carrying forward a stereotype, so it shouldn't get by on that ground that it's become disconnect from the original reference. So I don't think it's a big deal for someone to have said it, but going forward, you ought to plan to avoid it."
Now why don't you give us a little homily about Greeks bearing gifts.
Of course, calling the nomadic thieves of Eurasia "gypsies" derives from an almost certainly mistaken view that they originated in Egypt, so maybe the Egyptians have got a beef. Not that I would want to offend any cattle.
Call a women's doll-house play nice rules imposed on regular people "being Althoused."
Cher Gypsies Tramps and Thieves
I think it's still more than just a stereotype in Britain. Recipe for a Romanian omelet: "First, steal two eggs."
I hosted a conference call around 15 years ago where a co-worker from Michigan talked about a transaction with someone being “Jewed down”. That was no fun dealing with that. We had a conversation about it after the call where I impressed upon her that it should never happen again. She didn’t think it was a big deal, it was “just the way people talked, used words”. I assured her it was something that was not only wrong but could lead to discipline, up to and including dismissal.
Insulting Trump supporters is cool, but a peripheral slur against a tiny minority demands an abject public apology.
Got it.
Our Professor said... I don't think it's a big deal for someone to have said it
unlike some of those "n" words... Right? I mean, those ARE bad.. Right?
Gypsy moth getting new name to remove ‘ethnic slur’: scientists
Scalping, clicking, whistling our way to carbon sequestration.
I'm originally from Tennessee so maybe this is regional. I have no idea what this "g" word is.
So Whoopi got "Woked." Pretty funny. In fact the only thing funny about her.
She was funny in "Ghost" but that was 100 pounds ago.
Long ago, in grad school, there was mix of kids from all over the country. In one conversation, a friend from Michigan said someone "j**'d" down the price of something. I didn't flinch, but in my head I did, a little shocking to this SoCal kid. Same issue as the "g" word ... don't use this old vernacular/idioms.
In Ireland they just call them traveler scum.
I had no idea that "gypsy" was the origin of the word. And I thought it was spelled jipped. So now I won't use it but I don't think that will help anyone in any real way. I think that the only real issue is improving the schools in the big Dem cities in the black areas. People are going to get tired of this focus on words and tired of colleges controlled by DEI incompetents. But we all have relatives, mainly young children, who are partially members of minority groups. We don't want a backlash against them. So, looking ahead we can see a return to merit and competence. But, still looking ahead, we can see that members of the black community "educated" in the big Dem cities will disproportionately lose out as soon as merit is restored. How will that work out? It could work out without a dangerous backlash if, accompanying our drive to restore merit and competence as the basic hiring criteria, we have a plan for reforming failing city schools at the K-12 level. Even if the plan is to bypass rather than reform schools gripped hopelessly in the claws of the teachers union/college of education complex and to offer an escape route in the form of vouchers, charters and a supportive atmosphere for home schooling or in the form of a plan like that of Sarah Huckabee Sanders - still, we have to have a plan and push for it. Such reform isn't needed for well over half the members of the black community but there are so many failing schools in the areas where the black community lives that the children there are disproportionately unprepared to compete. The statistics will never be right till the schools prepare or till we completely eliminate competence and merit and substitute brain-dead rage in the hiring process. So let's insist that K-12 schools use the money they get to prepare students to live without affirmative action and without mob action. Why after all do some need such action? Isn't it because they were in a certain type of school from age 5 to 17 and, hence, are not ready to compete at 18?
A person exhibiting any of the qualities attributed to Gipsies, as darkness of complexion,
trickery in trade, arts of cajolery, and especially, as applied to a young woman, playful
freedom or innocent roguishness of action or manner.
late 14c., "full of joy, merry; light-hearted, carefree;" also "wanton, lewd, lascivious" (late 12c. as a surname, Philippus de Gay), from Old French gai "joyful, happy; pleasant, agreeably charming; forward, pert; light-colored" (12c.; compare Old Spanish gayo, Portuguese gaio, Italian gajo, probably French loan-words).
Diversity, racism, sex, gender, rape, sodomy, abortion, murder, fetus, baby... a "burden" with progress.
Albinophobia, next.
Linguistic virtue signaling is a sign of brainless servitude and the inability to think independently.
Counterpoint: Roughly zero Romani people are actually offended by the use of the word.
Good grief…
Here’s one of wiki’s list of ethnic slurs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_slurs
Ann is a derisive reference to white women, it is also applied to any black woman who is deemed to be acting as though she is white.
I never knew…
I'll continue to use gyp/gip as I please; if anyone objects, I will insist that they prove Romani or Gypsy descent for standing.
Then I'll continue to use the terms as I please.
Perhaps it's time for a list of Althouse stopwords!
Since I'm jewish, I guess I should be glad they didn't say "jew'd down" instead of gypped.
You know you've got a gypsy moth problem by little wagon wheel tracks in the garden.
What is it about Michiganders, Art in LA?!?!
Gypsies steal by their wits instead of intimidation.
Is the View showed in Europe? I don't think most people in the US think of that word as connected to the Romani situation in Europe, where Europeans would definitely see these as reflecting current biases.
But maybe I'm not aware how this has current usage in wider US. Like wildswan I honestly didn't think of it's historic roots, it's just a word that means what it means without linking it to a historic people. I've never thought of gypsies with before now I can't not think of the connection. So, win?
I honestly don't know if I've even seen it spelled before. It's just one of those things people say without thinking too much about it, but maybe it has a historic application where people do intentionally connect it and it's heard with that connection by Romani.
now they can go get Cher
Apparently there are about 1 million Romani in the US, which isn't a huge amount comparatively, and they're said to be mostly assimilated in the broader culture. Larger populations in Chicago and in Houston/Ft. Worth.
Interestingly, a new fact for me, Romani slaves were brought by Columbus and Spain was sending Romani slaves to Louisiana as late as 1800!
"Really, really sorry"? Not just ordinary "sorry"?
I'm convinced.
I worked several cases in Miami where Gypsies, or Romani as they prefer, made their living by defrauding and physically intimidating vulnerable, elderly people. They had a significant community in northeast Miami-Dade County.
I do not condemn anyone for simply being Romani, but a large segment of them are thieves, plain and simple. They are a very insular community who self-rationalize their crimes by adopting a posture of historical victimhood, and threatening any who dare to come forward about their crimes.
The real world is often ugly.
If reparations are coming, maybe I'll get some money for the lousy job the travelers did on my parents' driveway. Those Hiberno-Romany really "travelled" the old folks.
I bet most people don't even know that gypped is related to Gypsies or even that Gypsies are real people.
But I don't think it's something you hear from younger people, so maybe somebody got the message somewhere along the way.
If reparations are coming, maybe I'll get some money for the lousy job the travelers did on my parents' driveway. Those Hiberno-Romany really "travelled" the old folks.
I bet most people don't even know that gypped is related to Gypsies or even that Gypsies are real people.
But I don't think it's something you hear from younger people, so maybe somebody got the message somewhere along the way.
I know what gypped means, but Romani?
How about apologizing for ignoring that half of women aren't Woke idiots?
So, the new preferred term is "romanied," right?
So I guess the word "slave" is out, even when referring to slavery...
This word was supplied to us by our ancestors as part of our vocabulary. Now they are taking it away. Indian givers!
- Krumhorn
The language police will absolutely Whoopi you in the behind.
gyp (v.)
also gip, "to cheat, swindle," 1889, American English, traditionally derived from Gypsy (n.). Gyp/gip/jip is attested from 1794 as university slang for a servant that waited on students in their halls. This is said to have been especially a Cambridge word, and a story told there derived it from Greek gyps "vulture," in reference to thievish habits of the servants.
As a noun, "fraudulent action, a cheat," by 1914. Gypsy's abbreviated form Gip, Gyp is attested from 1840. Gypping or gipping was a term late 19c. among horse dealers for tricks such as painting the animal's gray hairs brown, puffing the gums, etc. Related: Gypped.
The best, the brightest, the elite.
when she collaterally disparaged Romani people.
She exercised liberal license to indulge diversity [dogma] (i.e. color judgment, class-based bigotry). #HateLovesAbortion
So I guess the word "slave" is out, even when referring to slavery...
Origin and meaning of slave
c. 1300, sclave, esclave, "person who is the chattel or property of another," from Old French esclave (13c.) and directly from Medieval Latin Sclavus "slave" (source also of Italian schiavo, French esclave, Spanish esclavo), originally "Slav" (see Slav); so used in this secondary sense because of the many Slavs sold into slavery by conquering peoples.
The Russians were formed from East Slavic tribes, and their cultural ancestry is based in Kievan Rus'. Genetically, the majority of Russians are identical to their East and West Slavic counterparts; unlike northern Russians, who belong to the Northern European Baltic gene pool.
Absolutely. Never again, and again, and again.... Slavic Spring.
The language police will absolutely Whoopi you in the behind.
Whoop (sic) you, whoop you good. Or take a knee, beg, make whoopee... not whoopee-whoopee h/t Whoopi, which was the standard of submission for boys, girls, and enemies in progressive liberal democratic societies.
https://youtu.be/yokLn7DDbig
Disparaging MAGA Republicans is both sanctioned and encouraged, though.
We should replace it with the word “bidened”.
jimmy (v.)
"pry open with short leverage," 1893, from jimmy (n.). Related: Jimmied; jimmying.
Related entries & more
billy (n.)
"club," 1848, American English, originally burglars' slang for "crowbar." The meaning "policeman's club" is recorded by 1856, probably from nickname of William, applied to various objects (compare jack, jimmy, jenny). But compare French bille "a short, stout stick" (see billet (n.1)).
trump (n.1)
"playing card of a suit ranking above others," 1520s, alteration of triumph (n.), which also was the name of a card game.
“What's in a name? That which we call a rose by any other name would smell just as sweet.”
Recipe for a Romanian omelet: "First, steal two eggs
Hey!
That is anti-latino
(romainians are ethnically latino, right?)
John Henry
"travelers" have similar nomadic outlaw culture but are completely different ethnically
John Henry
I sure hope whoopi never welshes on a bet
John Henry
So Spike Lee's "Do The Right Thing" is now banned and unavailable, much the way "Song of the South" is, right? Right??
I have lived most of my life in the Midwest USA. Not really concerned about Romanian gypsys. Now, Irish Travelers and their driveway repaving schemes is a different story.
In one conversation, a friend from Michigan said someone "j**'d" down the price of something.
===========
is it not a useful life skill to learn to jew down if one has gumption - so why take it as slur?
I also thought gyped was actually jipped and had no clue it was related to gypsies. I don’t really use the word but that’s simply because I don’t get ripped off (except by the IRS). Without seeing this, I could see using the word to if the situation arose.
Now, every time we’ve ever had a garage sale, someone will ask if they can Jew us down. Every time. And we just shake our heads. My step family is Jewish and it’s not that I’m offended - it’s more that I simply see users of that phrase as idiots. And the answer to if I lower the price is nope. I keep my prices high like a good gentile.
"I don't think it's a big deal for someone to have said it, but going forward, you ought to plan to avoid it."
Going forward, you and everyone you represent, ought to plan on f*cking yourself if you think you or your pals are going to police what people say.
I had an English traveler friend who used to say "Wales would be a fine place if it weren't for the Welsh" Plenty of Romani gypsies in Ireland as well as the traveling community, and lots of Irish travelers count themselves as Romani. But who knows?
Hell, St. Patrick was an Italian living in England before he was dragged to Ireland by pirates. Let's just say that there was plenty of intermingling going on, then as now.
I grew up with it. I went to Romania many times in the 90s and 00s, and the Roma didn't care about it. If they have been taught to care about it now, I suppose we should all learn not to offend. No harm in being polite, even if they learned to take offense for bad reasons. Yet I also dislike rewarding moral posers who teach others to be offended for no reason.
Word etymologies are an especially bad place to insist that others take a stand because language, especially slang, changes so easily, and the original meaning is so quickly lost. Should Czechs be offended by the ongoing use of the word "slave" in English?
You know you've got a gypsy moth problem by little wagon wheel tracks in the garden.
But do they litter as much as those Monarch butterflies from Mexico?
A cat made a trail across my back lawn in the 90s by judiciously taking the same route every time on his circuit. I'd have forgiven the line of suppressed grass if only he'd given death sentences to the squirrels.
Growing up in Alabama, we were not allowed to use the N-word when referring to people, it was not polite, colored was the preferred term. However, as an adjective it was OK. Brazil nuts were n!gger toes, the slums were n!gger quarters, certain fireworks were n!gger chasers. Jewing down and gyping people had to do with actions, not groups of people. Actually we didn't know anybody who wasn't Baptist, Methodist, or Church of Christ.
Growing up in Alabama, we were not allowed to use the N-word when referring to people, it was not polite, colored was the preferred term. However, as an adjective it was OK. Brazil nuts were n!gger toes, the slums were n!gger quarters, certain fireworks were n!gger chasers. Jewing down and gyping people had to do with actions, not groups of people. Actually we didn't know anybody who wasn't Baptist, Methodist, or Church of Christ.
Well, since using the "g-word" is now verboten, I suspect the term "ripped off" must also be struck from popular usage because it demeans athletic people with "ripped bodies."
Gotta love the woke language police...
John Henry @ 8:47: “…welshes..”
Beat me to it. This tsunami of outrage gives me hope, at long last, that by taking offense, I can get respect and, who knows, a payoff.
As long as you're not an Indian-giver...
So G-words are the new N-words?
No true Scotsman would ever say they were gypped. Because Scotsmen are so cheap they would never allow that to happen...
Or is that a "No True Scotsman Fallacy"?
I suppose I could ask my drunk Irish uncle for a ruling on that.
Or discuss it over a tasteless dinner with my English relatives. Conquer the world to establish a spice trading monopoly- then don't use any. Good grief!
But you do know why no one ever tells jokes about the English though, don't you? It's because they're not funny.
I used to say "welsh on a deal" but realized my next door neighbor was actually Welsh. There are lots of things we can't say anymore. Tomorrow is Irish Cultural Appropriations Day but I don't mind. St Patricks Day.
St Patrick was an Italian? Never heard that one before.
In the future Whoopi plans to cushion her remarks.
Kevin said...
We should replace it with the word “bidened”.
3/16/23, 8:30 PM
GOOD ONE!! and so appropriate!!
Reminds me of Norm Macdonald, in one of his sitcoms, expressing faux outrage at the term gypsy, as it insulted his hot gypsy blood (nod to Graham Parker).
Then there's this, where Norm describes a time when he lived a "dirty gypsy" lifestyle, and defends his entitled use of the g-word.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SA-Qlt7Y3U
Romani eunt domus
Slang all the way. Let's head for the souk.
Well I had the Norm Macdonald's sitcom just slightly wrong on the use of "gypped" -- trying to bait his boss into a PC error about Mexicans or Greeks, then extolling his proud gypsy cultural heritage ... "we brought you the tambourine sir"
Minute 14ish
https://youtu.be/S9xaB6WMISM
I also found Judge Judy defending the use of gypped, from Norm's Netflix show
https://www.theringer.com/tv/2018/9/19/17878812/norm-macdonald-netflix-show
: a conversation with Judge Judy, for example, in which Macdonald forces Eget to tell the story of a mild legal grievance.
Norm: I think he got gypped.
Adam: Well, I don’t think gypped is a word we can use anymore, but I do think that I did get bamboozled.
Norm: Oh, gypped because gypped comes from gypsy.
Judge Judy: It’s so PC. That’s so ridiculous.
Norm: Yeah, yeah, isn’t it?
Judge Judy: Yes.
Norm: But most gypsies are fine.
How many offensive things has Whoopi said recently? Holocaust denial? Trivializing major topics as "White people" issues? Romani/Gypsy Slurs? And yet she was not canceled on her first offense as with Roseanne Barr? Why has she not retired?
Will the media/pandering politicians ever pick up on the fact that bigotry is a state of mind rather than a skin color? The presence of many groups in the US draws attention to color and appearance, but it's not the central issue. Insults and derogatory language often follows from genetically identical competitors living nearby. Consider the Los Angeles street gangs the Bloods versus the Crips. Consider the Hatfields versus the McCoys. Consider Jewish versus Palestinian/Gaza Arab hostility (i.e., ethnic rather than racial).
I'd argue that "gypsy" had mixed positive and negative connotation in the US until academics sought to purge the term. Consider the Fleetwood Mac song "Gypsy," the association with free-spirited rolling stones, and the excitement of travel. This contrasts with governments of Europe, as they often aggressively shut down the traveler culture through public housing, camping bans, and more. Interactions with stationary locals had been routinely problematic -- Hitler rounded them up for the concentration camps too.
There is no demonstrated linguistic connection between gypsies and gyppted. The folks who gave us "gyp" call gypsies Romani.
As with "Redskin," the offensiveness is retrofitted. It's not there now, it was never there in the past, but the language police have invented a mythical past that they use to denigrate those who use the word now on the dubious theory that it carries an aura of offensiveness that never goes away no matter the intention of the people using the word or the perception of the people hearing it.
It's magical thinking. A dark and dangerous magic that we'd be better off not promoting or even respecting.
The truly sad part of all this is that Whoopi Goldberg being suspended from "The View" occupies even a small part of public discourse.
Why are we still allowing the Office of the Perpetually Offended (stereotypical liberal White woman) to hall-monitor our language for bad-think?
Go to hell, you entitled ass.
Just wait until everyone named "Richard" gets their turn.
I have a buddy who we identify for dinner reservations and golf outings as "Richard Cranium."
Ok I’m confused. Did gypsy’s cheat people out of belongings or cash? Was that their livelihood? If they did so, and were successful at it, wouldn’t that be a source of pride for them? If I were gypped out of something then it is I who is a dumb-ass for falling for the ruse.
Huh. I never knew of that origin, or that some people don't like the word.
I never liked "Jewed" in my youth, of course, but I am thankful that people don't think we're the patsies. No one says that they were "gentiled" or "goyed" because that would be, like, good.
boatbuilder said...
Just wait until everyone named "Richard" gets their turn.
I have a buddy who we identify for dinner reservations and golf outings as "Richard Cranium."
***********
Took me a sec, but ISWYDT.
Now do "fascist", Whoopie. You and all "woke" progs don't know what that means, either.
Free clue: conservatives who seek limited government are not "fascists".
"Fascists" are YOU fuckers, who want to control everyone.
I don't think it's a big deal for someone to have said it, but going forward, you ought to plan to avoid it.
So we should get our Irish up about it?
I've found that the offense-by-proxy people generally aren't a part of the group being cast as offended.
I love the Ann Althouse blog, but sometimes, when I read one of her posts I feel gypped. This is definitely one such post. Stop being too careful - it is harmful.
I absolutely love the Ann Althouse blog. However, sometimes, when I read one of her posts, I feel totally gypped. This is one such post. Stop being too careful. It is harmful.
The Spew Crew lie every single day, and are considered part of the ABC NEWS division. That alone should make you question ABC news. Anybody who watches this show has got to be the most ignorant of the ignorant in America today.
Krumhorn, at 8:04 last night, wins the thread with the 1st use of "Indian Givers."
Just for fun, I once used the term Indian Giver referring to a colleague whose ancestors lived in the real India, the one in south Asia.
Hilarity ensued; nobody got fired.
Its amazing how nobody gets upset at the ABC execs for keeping this trash on the air. Or that "Feminists" aren't upset it makes women look idiots. Give women a show where they can talk politics, and this is what they air. Four empty-headed loudmouths shouting insults and talking over each other while reading from the notes prepared by their male producers.
Wasn't Goldberg a comedian at some point? WHen's the last time she said anything funny?
So what does Cambridge say? Given they use the noun or did
G__ \G__p\ (j[i^]p), n. [Said to be a sportive application of Gr.
gy`ps a vulture.]
A college servant; -- so called in Cambridge, England; at
Oxford called a scout. [Cant]
[1913 Webster] (edited since apparently you can't spell words anymore)
You know, not everything is actually as some poorly educated college professor thinks when they see a spelling.
"She was funny in "Ghost" but that was 100 pounds ago. "
Dunno. She's still pretty funny when she wears a mop.
Just mute the sound.
You'd think she would be more sensitive, being Jewish and all.
See, here's the problem with this craptastic idea that "words are hurtful": Words are symbols, people. SYMBOLS. You can say a word is "hurtful" all you like, but the fundamental problem with making people give up using the word you don't like is that the underlying "thing" beneath that symbolic representation is still there. The only thing you're accomplishing is the Streisand Effect, because you're highlighting it for everyone.
Doubt me? Look at the history of the three terms idiot, imbecile, and moron.
Those used to be purely technical terms of art, delineating specific degrees of mental deficiency.
They were meant to replace earlier, less clinical terms, that were deemed "hurtful".
https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/moron-idiot-imbecile-offensive-history
The entry there is poutily offended at the use of these terms, but what it ignores is that they've accomplished nothing at all by making them "bad words" you can't say any longer. The underlying thing that those words symbolize is still there: The essential mental deficiencies of those described by them. You can move on to retarded, special, or whatever other euphemism you like, but the thing symbolized will still be there: The mental deficiency. So, whatever you do, whatever you name that, it will become offensive to someone in a few short years of use.
Same with the term "gypped". You can ban the word, but so long as Travelers or Gypsies are known for conducting themselves as they have been, in order for that word to reach currency and retain the oppobrium, guess what? It's only going to shift, in an ever-larger pool of spread ink until we can't use that next term used to symbolize the underlying issue of crooked dealing and graft.
Quite the same with the ever-dreaded "N-word". You want to stop people calling you hurtful names, euphemisms describing your criminal and otherwise unacceptable behavior? How about you change the behavior, eh? You hear people living near blacks using terms like "Canadian" or "Amish", and you get the drift really quickly that the people using those terms are appropriating them for euphemistic use in describing things that a few short generations ago would have been described using the "N-word". In time, those terms will become just as unacceptable, and we'll be on to something new. The underlying behavioral patterns those terms describe will still be there, so those new terms will later become unacceptable, too, once they're identified.
It's all euphemism. I am with Confucius, with his 13th Analect. The key and essential thing is the rectification of names: Use the right terms to describe things honestly and in fullness. If an idiot is an idiot...? Well, there's not too much to be done. Calling him something "less hurtful" ain't going to change his essential and intractable idiocy. He's still an idiot, by whatever name. Shakespeare had that much correct, certainly.
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