Writes David Wallace-Wells, in "Why Are So Many Americans Dying Right Now?" (NYT).
[A]lmost every week for more than six months, the agency has calculated that total excess mortality was 50 percent larger than and often almost twice as large as the number of official Covid-19 deaths.... What are the hypotheses?
The first is delayed care [caused by the pandemic]....
A second hypothesis is about the indirect effects of pandemic restrictions... social isolation, anxiety... unemployment, which can worsen a wide range of conditions, as well as, potentially, suicide and homicide and even car accidents and overdoses....
A third hypothesis is that Covid-19 infection does harm to the body that can linger after recovery for some people....
If you are waiting for "a fourth hypothesis, the vaccine," I can tell you it is not in this article. The vaccine is mentioned but not as a possible cause of the excess deaths. But Wallace-Wells discusses a subset of the "third hypothesis" as "another hypothesis":
Another hypothesis is that Covid infection damages immune function in some patients in a long-lasting way....
So the damage to the immune function, if any, is presumed to come from the disease and not the vaccine. Wallace-Wells notes that there is "a lot of contestation and pushback against — and contextualizing," but only about the effect of the disease. Questioning the vaccine cannot even be a hypothesis. He proceeds to talk about how our emotions drive our thinking on the subject:
Among the many lessons of the pandemic, for me, has been how much more complicated and baffling disease severity and death are.... how simplistic it often feels to apply a single cause of death.... Yet we’ve wanted stories we drew from the pandemic to be straightforward and legible, no matter how messy and nuanced so many cases turned out to be....
Does this want cause you to exclude the complicating factor that is the vaccine? As I write this, I am feeling the fear of questioning the vaccine.
Here's the parenthetical in the article where Wallace-Wells excludes the vaccine:
If long Covid or post-acute sequelae were primarily responsible [for the excess deaths], we might expect to see a spike in non-Covid excess deaths at some interval following each particular wave of infection — perhaps a few weeks or perhaps a few months later. (If vaccination risk was playing a role, it might create the same pattern, but that’s not what the curves show.)
There is also the idea that the excess mortality is really made up of deaths from Covid that were not registered as Covid deaths because they died at home and why test for Covid when the death certificate can say heart disease?
Throughout the pandemic, about 20 percent of in-hospital deaths have been attributed to Covid-19, compared to barely 2 percent of deaths at home. If you roughly triple the share of at-home deaths attributed to Covid — still well short of the share in hospitals — you make the Covid death toll a bit larger but almost entirely eliminate the excess excess gap. And if you adjust it to match the share of deaths attributed to Covid everywhere but homes — hospitals, outpatient clinics, nursing homes — you actually overshoot the gap....
That sounds quite plausible, but I note the emotion in my desire to embrace it. It's the most comforting thought. People who died were old and already in bad health, and Covid knocked them off relatively peacefully. They died at home. And they were expected to die. They'd reached the end of their life. Nothing strange is going on. Rest easy.
"Where does this leave us?," the last paragraph of the article begins. And here comes the one other mention of the vaccine:
More Americans are still dying than expected, which means at some point the United States may have to reset its expectations for how many will die in a given year at least a bit higher. The country long ago walked away from most mitigation measures beyond vaccination. (And even there, booster uptake has been quite low.)...
You can see that the reference to the vaccine is entirely positive. The only fault is only in us: We're not continuing to take it.
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94 comments:
There is an old adage that the winners get to write the history books. If the current elites remain in power, we should expect more articles like this. They are WAY too invested in the vaccines to ever admit that they may be the reason (or at least one of the reasons) for so much unexplained "excess death."
He asked about hypotheses. Hypotheses are possibilities. Vaxxing is not a possibility?
oh, i forgot,
the government's drug polices are killing people
the government's diet polices are killing people
the government is killing people
data:
about 20 percent of in-hospital deaths have been attributed to Covid-19, compared to barely 2 percent of deaths at home.
more data: hospitals are PAID Extra money, if they PRETEND that a death was a covid death
even MORE data: people at home Aren't paid this extra money
Hypothesis anyone? Any One? Bueller?
The Establishment is still in Stage 1, Denial.
Another case: https://alexberenson.substack.com/p/44-year-old-female-vegetarian-msnbc
I have no idea if the vaccine is causing excess deaths, but ignoring it like this causes me to wonder more. Our self-appointed betters have really squandered any credibility they once had.
The vaccine gives you covid. That's how it functions. If the original danger is with covid, then the vaccine isn't the culprit. Multiple doses is. Each encounter with covid increases the danger, so don't inject it into your body anymore.
Fauci is an evil human being who tried to play God by financing and encouraging the invention of something insidious. Covid is the Black Plague and it will take its toll.
If the vaccine plays a role, the vaccinated should be dying at a higher rate than the unvaccinated. Has anyone tried to correlate vax status with the death rate? If they have not, why not?
I remember that when the ruckus first started, the newsies were speaking of a new Wuhan virus that was affecting a lot of people in a far-off country called China. At some point, instructions were received that the virus was not to be referred to by its origin, as has been customary in virology and medical circles for a century, and the neologism COVID was introduced and became the received proper way to refer to the new virus and the disease it caused. I'm sure that CCP $ had nothing to do with that.
The CCP is no longer in sole control of the narrative. It is now forbidden to take any note of the possibility that the vaccine can be in any way harmful, other than a minimal soreness at the injection site. Oh, it may cause myocarditis, but less myocarditis than the actual disease (citation needed). Oh, young healthy people are dropping dead here and there, but no more than usual. Oh, excess deaths are persistently increased, but it's a mystery (see above).
Pfizer may not have more $ than CCP, but they are more skillful in applying it where it hurts.
Excess deaths aren’t excess if we just… raise the ceiling.
Raise your had if you're running to Walgreen's to get boosted or "vaxxed" for the first time.
If not...you're probably not buying the bullshit "lingering COVID effect"...and avoiding mRNA or any additional mRNA.
Many good comments, including Marty H. We're simply not being told about health/deaths of vaxx'd vs. Unvaxxed. mRNA vaxx's failed from the beginning to stop infection and transmission, formerly the two main attributes of a vaccine. They have not eliminated the threat of death from Covid. Death rates are down, but the virus is mutating to be less virulent. Tha vaxx's, like the virus, cause rare cases of cardiac trouble, probably in a different population, more young and male.For groups that were always at low risk of Covid, there was always a case for no Covid Vax.
Marty. Very complicated for many reasons; age, pre-existing, other factors.
To narrow it down, how about cardiac events in the young and healthy? Been some suggestions as to miscarriages; no reason not to look there.Deaths due to draconian mitigation mandates might be difficult to extract.
"MartyH said...
If the vaccine plays a role, the vaccinated should be dying at a higher rate than the unvaccinated. Has anyone tried to correlate vax status with the death rate? If they have not, why not?"
_____
I believe some have but their research is immediately dismissed. Steve Kirsch or Alex Berenson may have links to that research on their Substack pages. Also,the fact that anyone who dies within two weeks of being vaccinated is deemed "unnvaccinated" or "not fully vaccinated" confuses the issue.
All the youth who are dying from heart issues are now considered to be "normal" by the media. And, as time moves on the curve will show that it is, in fact, now normal. Same for the decrease in birth rates.
Public health officials and the media are lying to us. When emails or discussions show that Fauci and others lied regarding gain of function research, the effectiveness of the vaccines, etc, the media ignores such evidence. When they promote such foolishness as research which says that deaths or injuries after being vaccinated can be due to "vaccine anxiety" you know that they are lying.
People who have received the vaccines don't want to know anything other than those vaccines are "safe and effective". I don't blame them. It would be hard to accept otherwise.
COVID-19 itself was almost certainly genetically engineered by someone in Fauci's cabal. See this Feb 2, 2023 report on the conspiracy to cover up the origin from the start:
https://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/1729287/covid-19-infection-china-cover-up-conspiracy-USA-wuhan-laboratory-man-made-virus-weapon#amp-readmore-target
After setting the stage for a virus escape in Wuhan, Fauci's cabal then seemingly developed and profited from the non-vaccine 'vaccines.'
Fauci's cabal then apparently bribed/tricked/coerced governments across the world to bully citizens apparently to preserve their power, credibility, and profits. Many seemingly went along blindly and willingly if only to "screw Donald Trump."
Only when Fauci has a come to Jesus moment and publicly holds that COVID-19 almost certainly came from a Wuhan lab creation and escape rather than from innocent bats and pangolins in a market will he start to earn any credibility.
As always, Dr. John Campbell "Follows the Truth Wherever it Leads" to analyze excess deaths worldwide:
https://www.youtube.com/@Campbellteaching/videos
Historians 100 years in the future will almost certainly compare the Nazi quack doctor Josef Mengele "The Angel of Death" to Anthony Fauci. But, they'll only be able to do that after the current generation of greased palm bully government officials, media personalities, and historians die off.
If you roughly triple the share of at-home deaths attributed to Covid — still well short of the share in hospitals — you make the Covid death toll a bit larger but almost entirely eliminate the excess excess gap. And if you adjust it to match the share of deaths attributed to Covid everywhere but homes — hospitals, outpatient clinics, nursing homes — you actually overshoot the gap....That sounds quite plausible, but I note the emotion in my desire to embrace it. It's the most comforting thought.
The deaths at home include many people with deaths that are clearly non-Covid related…Suicides, drug overdoses, domestic violence, home invasions, widowmaker heart attacks, and people who intentionally choose to die at home under hospice care from cancer and other chronic illnesses. I would wager that the percentage of those kinds of deaths occurring at home is far higher than the same type of death occurring at the hospital (for instance, suicides that result in a hospital admission before death) so it seems doubtful that the multiplier should be 3x to adjust for unreported Covid among the home deaths.in other words, we should EXPECT that Covid deaths represent a much smaller proportion of at-home deaths than hospital deaths.
The double down on the part of the liberal press is impressive.
MSNBC host Yasmin Vossoughian told here audience last week that she has been diagnosed with myocarditis as a result of a common cold.
Video is all over Twitter if you're interested. Total bullshit, but damn, she seems to believe it and really wants the audience to believe it.
Lem Former Twitter Aficionado said...
Excess deaths aren’t excess if we just… raise the ceiling.
What I find interesting is that most people are not connecting all of this together.
1. COVID was engineered with US taxpayer dollars in a subsidized lab to evade US laws.
2. They had data on the increased rate of heart damage caused after the second dose and in the massive rate of miscarriage in pregnant women.
3. They are resorting to censorship to cover it up.
4. They are making energy more expensive so that people cannot heat or cool their homes and people on the margins are too cold/hot.
5. They are making food more expensive so that people on the margins starve.
6. They are pushing insect/vegetarian diets that are clearly not as healthy as red meat/eggs.
7. They are pushing sugar/wheat based diets that are undeniably unhealthy.
8. Social media.
9. Remote Learning.
10. Open borders.
11. Abortion.
12. Single motherhood.
The "elites" in Davos and the WEF want about 1 billion poor people on the planet as servants and the rest of us to die.
How many people who actually died "of COVID" not "with COVID" could have been saved in treatments like HCQ and Ivermectin weren't vilified and outlawed by Democrats and the MSM?
It's all about the $$$ and the control. You think in 2020 and 2021 Democrats and Big Pharma wanted a cost effective treatment distributed that would have actually saved lives? Obviously they didn't.
You've just lived through the most evil, totalitarian, and Machiavellian episode in your life. America and the world, all the way down to everyone's personal life, will never be the same.
It ain't over. America's entire education establishment is still pushing the same shit.
Study Finds Large Gap in Excess Deaths Along Partisan Lines After COVID-19 Vaccines Introduced
A team of Yale researchers has found that Republican voters in two U.S. states had more excess deaths than Democratic voters after vaccines for COVID-19 became widely available to counter the disease. The discrepancy didn’t exist prior to the vaccines.
I work in clinical laboratories, the kind that test for diseases and monitor conditions. We have never gotten back to our pre-covid levels. We are about 10-15% less in volume. This is cardiac monitoring, transplant and HIV monitoring, immunology, rare diseases, and more basic lab tests for genetic and other conditions.
We have wondered what is going on, too? Because our tests are prescribed by a doctor, we have assumed people are not going to their physicians.
My family doctor will not see you in-person if you are physically ill. I have to go to an urgent care. I wonder if there has been a lack of consistency in patient care because of policies like this?
Going to the overcrowded ERs is a crap shoot for chronically ill patients. They wait to long and are in severe distress. Not having consistent bloodwork and adjustments to meds can cause bad reactions and poor outcomes.
The other theory is a lot of our patients died of COVID....
As others have said, the rate of COVID deaths in hospitals is overstated, perhaps wildly. My understanding is that anyone who tests positive and dies is counted as a death from COVID, not merely with it. The government gives the hospital more money (to encourage inflating the "emergency"), patient care is not affected except indirectly in the long run, and no one is checking up. How can they resist? And people with severe enough symptoms to be life-threatening probably get to the hospital and die there rather than at home. So the comparison doesn't tell you much.
“Excess deaths are likely due to COVID-19 directly or indirectly; unvaccinated people have a greater mortality rate than vaccinated people.”
Here is the evidence.
Evidence shows that COVID-19 vaccines don’t increase the risk of death, contrary to claim by financier Edward Dowd
“CLAIM
COVID-19 vaccines are causing excess deaths around the world; sudden adult death syndrome is new
VERDICT- UNSUPPORTED
SOURCE: Edward Dowd, Audrey Marcus Podcast, 4 Jan. 2023
DETAILS
Inadequate support: There’s no evidence supporting the claim that people vaccinated against COVID-19 are generally more likely to die compared to unvaccinated people. In fact, the evidence indicates otherwise.
Factually inaccurate: Sudden adult death syndrome (SADS) isn’t new. Reports of SADS date back to the 90s. The term is simply perceived as new by many people, likely because of a change in public awareness of the term.“
Another answer to this riddle is the total neglect of patients needing early intervention treatment and scanning for cancer / heart disease during the “pause” when hospitals made more cash stamping out Covid “victims” as noted above. That’s certainly one bump. The other is the fact that many who stayed home put on a lot of poundage because those “unhealthy” gyms and outside parks were closed for “safety” reasons. That has caused more weight related illness and mortality.
Don’t even touch the depression from isolation that caused people to give up.
But the government keeps “revising” calculations on the economy and health to fit the narrative. Winston Smith would be proud.
Like everything else these days, we see a trend of diverting attention to what's going on over here or paying very close attention to nonsense, and anyone pointing this out is called a kook or conspiracy theorist. Then a few years later, when it would be difficult to hold anyone accountable for the years of lying; we found out it was all a lie and the kooks and conspiracy theorists were correct after all. Regardless, nobody is held accountable, and until that happens, the rest is drama.
If you haven't read Tom Clancy's novel Rainbow Six, go read it right now and then come back to this thread.
I know that the UK also has a higher mortality rate. Alex Berenson says it's the vax, but it's hard to know. Most industrial nations had higher vax rates. I wonder how Africa is doing? But I would expect them to have a lower mortality, they're younger. So the vax rates might not be a factor.
Aren't a lot of the excess deaths murders and drug ODs?
The "vaccines" play a peculiar role in the past three years.
They were developed under Trump (boo!) but their arrival was announced the week after the election, so Trump got no credit (yay!). Biden said he would get the whole country vaccinated in a couple of months (yay!), but then he didn't(boo!). Those who got vaccinated (yay!) had to sign a waiver that said they were taking an experimental drug and they couldn't sue the manufacturer (boo!). People were ordered to take this experimental drug to keep their jobs (boo!) and see their family members (boo!) and do other things they wanted to do. Therapies and treatments were ignored and denigrated (boo!), and MDs and celebrities who expressed reservations were castigated and canceled(boo!). Everyone in Israel got vaccinated (yay!), but problems soon showed up--the beneficent effects didn't last long (boo!), but boosters were soon available (yay!). But the boosters didn't last long, either (boo!). And now there were mutant strains (boo!). Better get another booster (???). No therapies are safe (???) notwithstanding lots of empirical data (boo!). Canada, Australia, and New Zealand were more authoritarian than most other places (boo!). The Brits were just incompetent.
Bottom line: here we have the largest experimental drug trial in history, and we really don't want to look at the results.
I am not going to say it is all the government/media/ public health establishment's fault, but it is really all their fault. Not to mention China, the bat lady, and that damned Wuhan lab. We should have known the deck was stacked when they told us we couldn't call it the Wuhan virus.
So many Americans are dying DESPITE an untested drug allowed only on an emergency basis which has sometimes fatal side effects worse than the disease it purports to cure.
We allowed the mRNA virus to be distributed because we were told it would act as a vaccine against COVID19. We allowed it to be distributed without any advanced human testing; to see if it would work as intended.
It does not work as intended. It does not act as a vaccine. It does not protect you from getting COVID19 (which is the definition of a vaccine). It has a very long list of very deliterious side effects. Many doctors have called for people to NOT take this untested medication.
And yet the medical experimentation hasn't been ended.
Now why would that be?
The NYT piece concludes:
"More Americans are still dying than expected, which means at some point the United States may have to reset its expectations for how many will die in a given year at least a bit higher."
Wouldn't we expect the opposite, that the pull-forward excess deaths we are seeing now represents those with vulnerable health conditions, dying for a variety of reasons explained by the three (and unspoken fourth) hypotheses, and so in the near future we should see fewer-than-expected deaths?
astonishing.
the new york times has been systematically Lying-By-Ommission for a long time, at least since they began covering the rise of Barack Obama PBUH, but a polished full throttle as they attempted to heave hillary clinton on top of us, and then screaming-Banshee Lying once TheManThatCannotBePresident became President.
But really? This!
Lord G*d Almighty, I know you love the freedoms declared as American, let the Final Record of these years NOT belong to the NYTimes.
do y'all watch TV? See any medicine commercials?
What, do they ALL have in common? They ALL list, a slew of side affects from the medicine..
(They're REQUIRED, By Law; to do so).
Every commercial, For EVERY medicine; HAS TO list its side affects..
Well, not Completely true.. There's ONE TYPE of medicine, that Does NOT have to list its side affects.
That medicine, is the Covid Vaccines. They Do NOT have to list Side Affects.
Oh!, and they're Protected, By Law; from law suits.
These medicines do NOT have to list side affects, or be liable to law suits; because:
They are COMPLETELY UNTESTED. OH! and, if you Don't take these; you won't be able to go to school
MSNBC host Yasmin Vossoughian told her audience last week that she has been diagnosed with myocarditis as a result of a common cold.
Video is all over Twitter if you're interested. Total bullshit, but damn, she seems to believe it and really wants the audience to believe it.
I'm willing to believe it could be the vaccine, but myocarditis can indeed be contracted after a cold, or pneumonia, or other things.
As a layman, even the relatively bright layman I take myself to be, it's so hard to determine who to trust after the CDC/Fauci lies or to evaluate statistical data when you haven't devoted your professional career to it. And I studied statistics at the graduate level (which I loved).
@MartyH -- observational studies after the fact are unreliable because it is impossible to know what any confounding factors might be. In other words, people who got the vaccine might be different from those who did in non-trivial ways, and unless you know for certain how and why or why not, observational studies are worthless.
The gold standard is RCTs -- Randomized Controlled Trials (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randomized_controlled_trial). We had plenty of time and money to run those. We did not. And by 'we' I mean the CDC. Take from that what you will. To me it means they were rather disingenuous about Following the Science.
The problem is that pesky control group… the dammed unvaccinated.
Are they dying like they are supposed to?
It takes a lot to avoid that question, doesn’t it?
---let the Final Record of these years NOT belong to the NYTimes.
When Althouse switches her main source to the National Enquirer, you will know your prayer was answered. And Althouse will have higher news accuracy.
I think the mRNA vaccines are a disruptive technology that will transform the way we treat illnesses from flu to cancer. These treatments will be cheaper and more effective. BUT these treatments will be administered by less skilled and less affluent people (i.e., poorly paid nurses at your local CVS). Expensive specialists in centralized, inconvenient locations feel threatened by this new technology and are trashing it. Drug companies under the constant threat of being made obsolete by new, smarter advancements are also concerned.
Speaking of dr John Campbell he is quite livid that the efficacy of vitamin d has been squashed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5sc7G4s4CY
Deaths in Ireland are up 20% compared to last year. Mortuaries are over capacity and funerals are being delayed because they can't keep up.
https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/number-of-deaths-in-recent-weeks-leading-to-funeral-delays-1425557.html
The covid vaccines were a failure but few in authority want to admit it. They don’t prevent catching the disease nor do they prevent the spread. I have my doubts that the vaccines lessen the severity of disease. I’m vaxxed and boosted but only because I had open heart surgery last year and the thought of getting an upper respiratory infection with a separated rib cage was frightening. But I’m done with it.
I used to play a small role in reviewing Federal research grant applications.
Much better odds of getting the dough if the research is to support the prevailing attitudes of the funding agency.
Try, just try, to get funded for research to show the Feds and big pharma were screwing us on Covid, global climate change, racial basis for violence, retransitioning, good guys with guns.... ah so many no go zones.
Some viruses (like measles) are already known to have an effect on the immune system, (https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2019/10/how-measles-wipes-out-the-bodys-immune-memory/) while the associated vaccine does not.
So it seems like one reason the "vaccines" hypothesis isn't mentioned is that, in our experience with viruses, vaccines prevent immune depletion from happening.
"why test for Covid when the death certificate can say heart disease?"
If the death certificate records COVID, then FEMA will pay up to $9,000 in funeral costs.
gilbar. Bery good point. The side effects, possibly including death "may have occurred", are sometimes listed in artificially sped-up language to fit them all in.
The closet thing to ads for the Jax is the PSA style. Never a word about side effects.
Conrad said...
Aren't a lot of the excess deaths murders and drug ODs?
No.
Murders are statistically irrelevant. In the same ballpark as bee stings.
Drug OD's and Suicides are hard to differentiate really. But in terms of pure numbers they aren't that big.
The problems we are having now are in age groups that do not make sense.
Unless you start talking about myocrditis and periocarditis.
Then they make sense.
Pretty soon "famine" and "malnutrition" are going to make a big comeback too.
War might make an appearance.
Here is the only question that matters, and MartyH raised it:
"If the vaccine plays a role, the vaccinated should be dying at a higher rate than the unvaccinated. Has anyone tried to correlate vax status with the death rate? If they have not, why not?"
This data exists. We know it exists. The people in charge of the CDC and the FDA know that we know this data exists. If the vaccine were blameless for this, the CDC and the FDA would be literally tripping over themselves to lay out all this data for us to prove the vaccines are not to blame.
One thing I have noted over the last two years are the shocking numbers of people under the age of 45, many under the age of 35, who died "suddenly" or explicitly from a heart attack according to their obituaries in the local paper. Pretty much not a day goes by any longer without such an obituary or two of them. Now, maybe I am noticing this for the first time and it has always been this way, but here is the thing- in my personal life I have never known such a thing to happen to someone I know that wasn't an automobile accident or a suicide. I have literally never personally known a person under age 40 to drop dead of a heart attack or a stroke. The closest example was my great uncle who died of a massive heart attack at age 46, but he weighed over 300 pounds at the time of his death.
This question needs an answer, even it it embarrasses the people who were wanting to mandate this experimental vaccine to everyone, including babies. The longer the people in charge of the data refuse to answer this data openly and transparently, the more likely it is that the vaccines is, indeed, the cause.
And a journalist worth anything at all will openly raise this question in an essay talking about the persistent gap between excess mortality and that assigned to COVID, heart disease, etc. Not doing so simply makes that journalist dishonest. That journalist is dishonest, and probably wrote essays in the past advocating for mandated COVID vaccines.
Inga, that data doesn't really break down vaccinated vs unvaccinated. Unknown vaccination status is always labeled as unvaccinated. I want data where the vaccination status is absolutely known, not guessed at.
Try again, you dumb fuck.
From September 7, 2021 -- before vaccine was available ...
Since the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic, deaths attributed to many other health conditions have spiked in the U.S.: Alzheimer’s, heart disease, cancer and diabetes, for example, have killed far more Americans than would be expected in a pre-pandemic year.
Dashboard displays troubling trend of unexplained deaths
And I will point out for about the 100th time- COVID deaths are likely over-reported from at least the Summer of 2020. I have seen far too many examples of death certificates where it is clear that the person died from something else (like a gunshot in the head), but is listed as a COVID death because of a positive test. So that gap could be bigger than Wallace-Wells is claiming.
If you really want to follow this issue, check out Ethical Skeptic on Twitter. His posts are sometime elliptical, but he does that to avoid getting banned from the social media. But he has the best data that exists outside the control of the CDC, and the ability to analyze it properly.
"about 20 percent of in-hospital deaths have been attributed to Covid-19, compared to barely 2 percent of deaths at home."
It seems reasonable to me that most people who have a lot of trouble breathing are going to go to the hospital. If they're that sick, that's where they eventually died.
The @EthicalSkeptic has done some great work on this. The numbers everywhere (not just the US) far surpass any historical norm.
It is completely understandable why people who took the vaccine would want to believe the vaccine has nothing to do with excess deaths. They can't undo getting the vaccine. It's in their bodies to stay. If it turns out the vaccine is causing people to die, then the sooner we know that the better it will be for everyone, vaccinated or not. If it turns out the vaccine is a killer, vaccinated people who pushed other people to get vaccinated to protect others should be the first to want to know. They need know it's time to stop. It's the right thing to do. Add it to the list of hypotheses and study it completely.
In 2020, if you were paying attention rather than virtue signaling, it was clear excess deaths would increase in the years to come. That was obvious as cancer screenings etc.. were put on hold so hospitals could bill more $$$ and get bonuses for every COVID death.
Whatever is the REAL cause, and there are probably many, including the mRNA, it is all a predicable outcome of the complete bullshit handling of the plandemic by Democrats, Big Pharma, the CDC, Hospitals, cowardly Physicians, and of course the education establishment.
It's the excess 18 to 45 deaths that are shocking. I'd figure the life insurance industry knows the answer as they have to be paying out the claims.
Doh!
All the pontificating on the Vaccine is a waste of time. Even defenders and proponents like Inga know it's bullshit by now.
What are people getting shot into their arms in 2022/3? Judge by peoples actions, not words.
I'm never took one shot. Inga, you boosted? Shot #3 or #4?
What is interesting is in 2021 taking shots #1 and #2 is something liberals posted on social media to virtue signal and brag about their concern for others. When it comes to boosters that virtue signaling has completely disappeared.
These virtue signal posts have disappeared because...nobody is getting boosted.
Now we are back to "it's none of your business if I'm boosted". That's private! That's because you're not boosted, and shot your mouth off about the "vaccine" in 2021 and 2022.
One can start here to see what the CDC has been doing, and one can, if they are so inclined, check his work here.
In summary, what the CDC has done is to take cases where the person died of multiple pre-COVID causes, like cancer, heart disease, diabetes, kidney failure, extreme old age, etc., but with a positive COVID test inside a defined window, and deliberately reassigned them to COVID, and only for people for whom vaccine status was unknown/unvaccinated. People dying from the exact same multiple causes of death, and with a positive COVID test, but who were known to vaccinated were not assigned to COVID to the COVID pool. In other words, the vaccine was assumed to prevented a vaccinated person from dying of COVID, while an unknown status/unvaccinated person was assumed to have died from COVID, and yet both people died with exactly the same kinds of underlying morbidities. This is just flat out fraud.
Additionally, Ethical Skeptic shows beyond any doubt that sudden deaths from cardiac/circulatory causes were suddenly being put into a separate bucket of unknown causes rather than being distributed to the categories that had been normal practice prior to 2021. The reason was pretty obviously to hide the increase in such deaths in such age brackets. When a young person drops dead at school, or in his sleep, it all but certain to be related to a circulatory failure of some kind, even if an autopsy isn't performed. Prior to 2021, such a death would have simply been reported to the CDC as some sort or circulatory cause, but now isn't. This allows writers like Wallace-Wells to pretend the increase in deaths of people under 40 isn't really happening because their deaths are no longer showing up under the original mortality codes and age brackets- they only show up in this one bucket of deaths of "unknown causes", for which there is no historical bucket to compare in the CDC data.
I believe there's a mismatch on the meaning of the information different groups are getting.as they understand it. I can remember trying to explain why the Covid regime was questionable and getting shouted down as a tinfoil. Yet I was quoting Scott Atlas and the Great Barrington Declaration. The reason people didn't listen is that as readers of the NYT and Wapo and NPR listeners they believed this crucial point about me: that I was numerically in the fringe area. They actually believed that only 4 or 5 % of US adults supported my position whereas it was more like 50%. It isn't just that they didn't hear the evidence; it's that not hearing discussion of the evidence on the channels they regard as impartial was regarded as proof of an extreme position. Whereas 50% of the country is aware that the NYT as policy is not covering both sides, 50% of the country is not aware of this fact in its vital meaning. The vital meaning is this: 50% of the country has a standard for judging tinfoilness - WHICH IS UNTTERLY FLAWED.
It shows in the way the Atlantic and other outlets have serious articles in which people discuss giving up the COVID regime without even mentioning that half the country gave it up long ago. They don't think half the country did give it up long ago. They think careless, dirty fringies have been taking risks but now we, the 95%, can have a sober conversation and move in a unified way toward new policies. It's like watching someone wearing a VR headset moving about an empty room, gesturing wildly.
We should challenge the reasons for not listening as well as try to point out the facts.
And PS I am well aware that people I respect oppose the Ukraine war which I support. I read all sides of arguments, it can be done.
“…It is now forbidden to take any note of the possibility that the vaccine can be in any way harmful, other than a minimal soreness at the injection site. Oh, it may cause myocarditis, but less myocarditis than the actual disease (citation needed). Oh, young healthy people are dropping dead here and there, but no more than usual. Oh, excess deaths are persistently increased, but it's a mystery (see above).”
When abnormalities moved out of the injection site, into lymph nodes, then the rest of the body, lights and sirens should have gone off with the mRNA vaccines. The way that it theoretically should have worked was that the mRNA would be injected into a muscle, it would briefly generate spike proteins (for the Wuhan variant of the virus), and the mRNA would then quickly break down. Except that it wasn’t broken down. Instead, the lymphatic system moved the mRNA and the spike proteins it generate to lymph nodes, thence to the circulatory system, and thence to the rest of the body. The swelling of the lymph nodes should have worried the health care workers, because it indicated that the mRNA wasn’t being broken down quickly, at the injection site, as it was supposed to be.
Why wasn’t the mRNA breaking down as expected? mRNA is typically very short lived. It breaks down on its own fairly quickly, and the immune system destroys it when detected outside cells. Both of these mechanisms seem to fail with the mRNA in the vaccines. That requires stepping back a step. Both DNA and RNA famously consist of long polynucleotide strands of monomeric units called nucleotides. Each nucleotide is composed of one of four nitrogen-containing nucleobases (cytosine [Cg], guanine [G], adenine [A] or thymine [T] (for DNA)), a sugar called deoxyribose, and a phosphate group. Three of the four nucleobases are shared with RNA. The difference is that, in RNA, Urine(U) replaces Thymine (T). (Historically, it worked the other way - DNA was made possible by switching Thymine for Urine, stabilizing it). One of the reasons the mRNA breaks down so quickly is that Uridine makes RNA highly unstable. This instability would make the logistics of using mRNA in a vaccine problematic, because it breaks down so quickly. It would, for example, probably have to be kept close to absolute zero before being used. The solution to this, by Pfizer and Moderna, appears to have been to substitute a Pseudouridine for Uridine in the mRNA vaccinations. Standard Pseudouridine though wobble bonds with its opposite members, so doesn’t always transcribe correctly, so N1 Methylpseudouridine was utilized by these two companies. This substitution did greatly stabilize the mRNA, which has frequently been detected months after injection. But it also has another consequence - it effectively hides the artificial mRNA from the immune system (and facilitates it crossing the blood/brain boundary). So, Killer T cells do not kill the artificial mRNA on sight, as it does natural mRNA, when found outside cells. My (layman’s) theory is that the killer T cells are keying on Uridine, and not seeing the Pseudouridine. Everything else follows from that - the artificial mRNA generates spike proteins sometimes for months, instead of the originally expected minutes.
The next question is why wasn’t this noticed? It turns out that the CDC requires something called a “shed test” that looks for drug residue eliminated from the body. It starts checking every several hours, then days, and when that drops low enough, weeks, until all the residue disappears. The FDA effectively allowed those companies to skip those, and a number of other, tests for their EUA approvals (then used their fast track EUA testing to bypass normal testing for Pfizer’s non EUA fully approved vaccine, which was, in turn, used to bypass the full informed consent requirements for EUAs). And the shed of Wuhan variant spike proteins from those vaccinated should have prevented even EUA approval of the vaccines, after only a couple days of starting the CDC required Shed Test.
Kevin Roche - the Healthy Skeptic Blog has good analysis of excess deaths in US. My guess is that there is a segment caused by the vaccines, but the bulk of the excess deaths are the result of postponed medical care during the pandemic and very skewed reporting of the causes of death during the "pandemic". As with the labor force numbers I don't think we can accept any of the health care numbers from the last three years.
"Wouldn't we expect the opposite, that the pull-forward excess deaths we are seeing now represents those with vulnerable health conditions, "
Your hypothesis is noted. Time will tell.
“Try again, you dumb fuck.”
This coming from the person who said no more than 10,000 would die of Covid. Yancy dumb fuck.
Spiros said...
I think the mRNA vaccines are a disruptive technology that will transform the way we treat illnesses from flu to cancer. These treatments will be cheaper and more effective.
Dream on. mRNA had a 100% failure record before the covidiocy, no matter what it was tried for. Failed bad enough that most trials were cut short before their scheduled completion date.
Incidentally, and mentioned here before, there has never been a successful coronavirus vaccine for any coronavirus, human or aninmal. And many of those backfired.
And judging by the numbers- there still hasn't been a successful deployment of any mRNA treatment or coronavirus vaccine- combining the two did not work.
The powers that be are now talking about mRNA shots for flu, possibly as early as next year. Just say "NO!". That's what I'll be saying.
Inga said...
Study Finds Large Gap in Excess Deaths Along Partisan Lines After COVID-19 Vaccines Introduced ... A team of Yale researchers has found that Republican voters in two U.S. states had more excess deaths than Democratic voters after vaccines for COVID-19 became widely available to counter the disease. The discrepancy didn’t exist prior to the vaccines.
Why didn't the study simply correlate excess deaths with vax status? Why introduce party affiliation as a proxy? Moreover, the article doesn't even seem to document that party affiliation is in any way significantly correlated with vax status.
“The gap in excess death rates between Republicans and Democrats is concentrated in counties with low vaccination rates and only materializes after vaccines became widely available,” the authors said in the study.
The article Inga cites was published Nov 3, 2022, just before election day.
You've heard of "push-polling"?
This research reads like "push-epidemiology" from Yale SPH.
Good to see the Times getting into the year old discussion on excess deaths.
Just wondering. Not trying to cause trouble, but wondering: Do they figure in abortions when figuring excess deaths?
There is a huge difference between the mRNA vaccine that doesn't work and vaccines that do.
Start with- what is a normal vaccine? Well, there are two basic types. One- a weakened version of the virus. Which is usually the more dangerous one- the two types of polio vaccines being the best example. Not all viruses have a weakened virus version,
The other way is to tear the virus apart into small piesces, and inject virus particles into the body. The body sees the foreign objects and develops antibodies against them- that work on the full virus. Point is- none of the pieces are by themselves harmful or virulent. SAfer then a weakened version.
Now let's look specifically at the covid mRNA vaccine. And this is also true of the adenovirus version as well as the mRNA. What does it do? Well, it enters the body, then enters human cells, then forces the cell to manufacture the spike protein which then enters the bloodstream. Where the body can identify it and create antibodies against it. Not many pieces of the virus- one piece. Can the spike protein be produced outside the body then injected into the body? Why yes, yes it can. Well why don't they do that? Ah- let's go back to regular vaccines that tear the virus apart. None of the pieces are harmful or virulent. The spike protein is, and was klnown to be, all by itself, a known pathogen. That is- all by itself- it's harmful to the body. The "approved" vaccines for the dreaded covid force the body to produce these whole identical spike proteins from the coronavirus, the most dangerous one with the long spike in just the right place to be most harmful, and enter them into the bloodstream.
So, injecting a known pathogen into the body, the spike protein, that can cause damage, is both unethical and illegal. But using a two step process where the shot forces the body to produce the spike protein is somehow more ethical and legal? No. Completely 100% unethical. But thatnks to the machinations of the US health regulatory regime, apparently legal.
Anyone want to challenge the fact that the vaccines that don't work manufacture an exactly identical known pathogen in the body? Andyone want to justify it?
So glad they finally noticed.
I'm a life actuary, so I'm used to following mortality trends in general. I was doing that before the pandemic hit (heck, I had been doing a retrospective on the Spanish flu). I put together a bunch of my main mortality posts as a guide, just in case anybody is interested.
A month ago, I updated my spreadsheets to take a look at what was going on with 2022, and yes, there is a lot of excess mortality at the second half of the year, and it's still continuing.
Yes, some are drug overdoses, and those increased substantially starting in 2020, but that was already on an alarming trend before the pandemic. There are other things going on as well. That's why I made a compilation post so people could dig into different cause-of-death trends going back to 1999. Some items have been going on for quite a while.
People like to ride their particular hobby horses, and I recommend you not assume your conclusions, especially if you're not familiar with what mortality trends looked like before the pandemic.
Here’s another claim of vaccines causing excess deaths…debunked.
CLAIM
“Secret CDC Report confirms nearly 120k Youngsters 'Died Suddenly' in the USA by Oct. 2022 following roll-out of COVID Vaccines”
VERDICT-INACCURATE
SOURCE: Anonymous, The Exposé, 17 Jan. 2023
DETAILS
Factually inaccurate: CDC data on excess deaths are publicly available, not secret. They show that the vast majority of excess deaths in the U.S. can be attributed to COVID-19, not COVID-19 vaccines.
Misleading: The U.K. data cited in the article carries a few caveats. Notably, the mortality rate among the partially vaccinated is unreliable due to a small number of deaths in this group, and mortality rates between groups of different vaccination status can be influenced by factors such as preexisting medical conditions and socioeconomic status. These weren’t acknowledged by The Exposé.
One more for good measure…
CLAIM
COVID-19 vaccination is associated with all-cause excess mortality
VERDICT-UNSUPPORTED
SOURCE: Alex Berenson, Substack, 24 Jan. 2023
DETAILS
Cherry-picking: The claim’s argument relies on a correlation between vaccine coverage and excess mortality in the later months of 2022. However, previous months didn’t show this correlation. In fact, if we look at the entire time period since vaccination started in January 2021, it shows that countries with a higher vaccine coverage experienced less excess mortality.
Inadequate support: The claim relies on country-level data, such as the percentage of vaccinated people, when individual-level data, such as the vaccination status of people who died, would have been necessary.
@ Yancey Ward: good luck getting any decent numbers out of the CDC now; the VAERS database was effectively gutted last month of any relevant or accurate info. Nothing to see here, folks.
As to the argument that Republican counties in states ended up with more COVID related deaths than Democrat counties: there is conjecture that due to poor quality control, certain batches were more "hot", compared to others. Frankly given the way all of the latest so-called conspiracy theories have panned out, I'm going with intentional.
All the pontificating on the Vaccine is a waste of time. Even defenders and proponents like Inga know it's bullshit by now.
You'd think so, but you'd be wrong.
Earlier this week, Jay Inslee caught Covid for the second time ... despite being vaxxed and thrice boosted. And the first thing out of his whore mouth was thanking the science behind the vaccine and then telling everybody to go see their physician about getting it again.
Inga, you post link after of faulty/fake analysis filled with what is almost always cherry-picked data, or data that can't verified by anyone. You are basically lying in every single comment you made in this thread. No one, literally no one, has demonstrated what is causing the excess deaths. The data to do so is actually available, but the governments are not allowing anyone to look at it, and are now actively hiding and destroying it. The excess deaths might not be caused by the vaccine- they might be the result of stupid lockdowns and restriction of routine medical care. Or it could be the vaccines. The most telling data is all the deaths in young people from heart attacks and strokes, and those deaths started after the roll outs of the vaccines.
However, feel free to continue to lie, Inga- it really is what you are good at.
Again- the vaccines should not have been mandated for anyone. They should have been limited to people over the age of 60, or with a serious co-morbidity linked COVID and death. Mandating these vaccines for people under the age of 40 is criminally depraved behavior, and anyone supporting such vaccinations is just fucking evil.
That Wallace-Wells felt compelled to discuss this topic, one I mentioned in these threads over a year ago, is telling me that it is getting increasingly difficult to deny it is happening, and getting increasingly difficult to not try to find the cause. COVID caused deaths have certainly have not been seriously undercounted since testing reach the 500K/day level of capacity in the Summer of 2020- before that point, I am sure they were badly undercounted. If someone has died of COVID in the last 2.5 years, that death is about 95% sure to have been counted as such given the protocols in hospitals and nursing homes, and people's insane embrace of testing every sniffle.
The statistics are completely corrupted. A person was not counted as "vaccinated" until 14 days after the second does of Pfizer or Moderna, so if that person dropped dead in that period, it was classified as an "unvaccinated" death. That decision alone makes it impossible to determine how many excess deaths were in "unvaccinated = never exposed to vaccine" vs. "unvaccinated = exposed but still in the 2-week window." Now MAYBE you can justify that classificatory scheme with regard to vaccine efficacy--the immunity hasn't kicked in yet, so you can't yet say the vaccine isn't working--but there is no excuse for counting heart-attack and stroke victims who died 24 hrs to 13 days after inoculation as "unvaccinated" unless you are trying to hide something. The differential mortality and morbidity data for vax/unvax--from which we get "Well, Republican counties have more excess deaths"--is also bogus. Say, hypothetically, that there is temporarily an elevated risk of death from covid between the first and second dose, or between the second dose and the 14-day period after which the notional protection kicks in, then you would expect more deaths in that period than either before vaccination or after efficacy. But the classification scheme lumps all of the deaths in the putative elevated-risk period into "unvaccinated," falsely boosting the apparent efficacy of the vaccines and making "unvaccinated" a heterogenous category.
The obvious approach to this public health problem was to track all of these variables, which is not hard to do, but somehow none of the best and brightest medical and statistical geniuses at the CD thought to do this. Or they deliberately confounded the variables. I still hesitate to believe that the people at the CDC and FDA were so evil that they deliberately obscured the effects of a dangerous product (though I believe that Pfizer or Modern would, given the $ at stake), so I think what happened was that people talked themselves into the always-untrue (but frequently invoked) idea that the public would seize upon random fluctuations in the data, so it was better to suppress everything in order to maximize compliance, as this is absolutely how public health bureaucrats think (and, sadly, how they are training students in public health to think)
I knew there was a danger when, after Hank Aaron and Marvin Hagler each died less than a week after very publicly being vaccinated, the media IMMEDIATELY said that the deaths were DEFINITELY NOT vaccine-related because they were heart attacks. "But what if the vaccine causes heart attacks?" I wondered. And I was right to wonder, because it turned out that only deaths from anaphylaxis and a few other immune over-reactions were allowed to count as vaccine-caused. Other causes of death were preemptively ruled out. This is just terrible science. There is no excuse for not monitoring ALL causes of death to see if any are elevated, as you can never with 100% certainty rule out an effect even if you don't immediately see what the causal mechanism could be. No one thought that the antibiotic Cipro could cause tendons--but only some tendons--to spontaneously rupture. It turns out that it does, and we now understand why, but we would never have thought to look if the effect had not been detected statistically. Yet the statistical surveillance of the covid vaccines was set up in such a way that it is IMPOSSIBLE to pick up that kind of signal. No one has less respect for the competence of government bureaucrats than I do (sadly, the skill-set that moves someone up the hierarchy is perfectly orthogonal to the skill-set of doing good research, so even if the bench scientists were good--which I am not ready to stipulate--the management hierarchy is made up of the dumbest, least meticulous, and most amoral people in the group), but I can't believe that this idiocy was accidental on EVERYONE's part.
And this is how you settle the debate on whether the vaccine is responsible for the excess deaths.
The US and state governments have enough data to settle this argument in less than a day. So why haven't they?
“However, feel free to continue to lie, Inga- it really is what you are good at.”
Were you lying when you said there would be only 10,000 Covid deaths, tops? Or were you merely stupid?
Considering how many early-wave Covid deaths were people already a year or two from death, the number of deaths should be lower in 2022, not higher. Murders and traffic deaths are up significantly, but they're still much lower than old age and the top diseases.
When my nearly-deaf dad came back from a week in the hospital on the 12th, he spent the first hour coughing every other minute. I thought, Great, Covid from all those masked people yelling in his face, or pneumonia. Thankfully, he took a nap and has hardly coughed since.
Considering I’m one of the vaccine injured, I’d say it’s vaccine related. In my fact, the spike proteins are attacking my skeletal muscles and thankfully not my cardiac muscles. But, there is the risk of blood clots from skeletal muscle damage. Apparently, exercise can trigger the immune system to produce spike proteins and I imagine that’s why so many athletes are having cardiac events and strokes. It’s lovely walking around feeling like a time bomb.
What happens when millions of well armed people begin to realize it’s just a matter of time before they drop?
Considering I’m one of the vaccine injured, I’d say it’s vaccine related. In my fact, the spike proteins are attacking my skeletal muscles and thankfully not my cardiac muscles. But, there is the risk of blood clots from skeletal muscle damage. Apparently, exercise can trigger the immune system to produce spike proteins and I imagine that’s why so many athletes are having cardiac events and strokes. It’s lovely walking around feeling like a time bomb.
What happens when millions of well armed people begin to realize it’s just a matter of time before they drop?
If Inga had been willing to risk her lung status to go frontline as a nurse, she would have been happy to administer the highly profitable hospital death protocols.
Inga said...
There were quite a few bearded beer bellied older protestors there. Prime candidates for the ICU and a brand spanking newly bleached ventilator in about two weeks.
4/24/20, 5:29 PM
And she advocated for her grandkids getting experimental gene therapy, further feeding her demented confirmation bias.
Feel her pain.
When VAERS has been understood to vastly underreport pre0-covid, the temporal increase of deaths wrt jabs should logically be understood even more underreported considering the pressures to non-report.
No, Inga, I was honestly wrong- what you are doing in this thread is just flat out dishonesty- there is a big difference, though I doubt you have the character to understand or admit it.
You are worse than stupid- you are actively evil.
And just to remind people- in 2020, Inga was all in support of lockdowns, school closures, mask mandates, and suspension of normal medical procedures- for basically the entire rest of the year of 2020. When the vaccine was being developed, she actively in these threads denigrated it right up until the point when Trump was no longer President, and then she was actively supporting the mandate of vaccines for everyone, including school students. And now, faced with the possibility that the vaccine is killing people who would have been in no danger from COVID at all, what does she do- she starts linking to people are basically lying in trying to explain away these deaths in people who were not already at death's door, and who did not have COVID. A person with any conscience at all would probably just shut the fuck up, or would at least be advocating for the goddamned government to get off it's fucking ass and release the data needed to assess this issue. This question could be authoritatively answered in less than a day if the government just released the deaths and actual vaccination status. Instead, the government is removing all the data from public view, only releasing self-serving bits of it.
I knew there was a danger when, after Hank Aaron and Marvin Hagler each died less than a week after very publicly being vaccinated, the media IMMEDIATELY said that the deaths were DEFINITELY NOT vaccine-related because they were heart attacks.
That jumped out at me, too. The fact certain entities aren't even willing to examine the cause should give everyone reason to pause. Yet, here we are. Imbeciles quoting cherry-picked data and 'studies' as some sort of proof there's no reason to give pause.
You couldn't pay me enough to get jabbed right now.
Were you lying when you said there would be only 10,000 Covid deaths, tops? Or were you merely stupid?
Were you lying when you said there would be 3.3 million+ Covid deaths, or were you merely stupid?
All signs point to both.
MartyH said...
" If the vaccine plays a role, the vaccinated should be dying at a higher rate than the unvaccinated. Has anyone tried to correlate vax status with the death rate? "
"countries with a higher vaccine coverage experienced less excess mortality."
https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/data-doesnt-show-that-vaccines-are-responsible-for-2022-excess-mortality-contrary-to-alex-berensons-claim/
As I've said elsewhere - the medical establishment didn't squander their credibility, they threw it away with both hands.
At this point, I believe NOTHING the media or government says.
“Were you lying when you said there would be 3.3 million+ Covid deaths, or were you merely stupid?”
I never said any such thing. Why are you lying? Our fellow commenter, Yancey Ward did say there would be no more than 10,000 people who would die from Covid. He does not deny he said it. You are stupid, so is Yancey Ward.
The other hypothesis, besides "COVID vaccines killing people" that the reporters ignored, was "People being trampled to death by invisible unicorns." Why? Why would the NYT ignore that theory? Prolly because of the deep ties between teachers' unions and unicorns. We're just asking questions about that one.
Fortunately, we do have the literature survey that shows one undeniably strong correlation in COVID deaths nationwide; that is the correlation between increased deaths in Republican-majority precincts versus Democratic-voting precincts SINCE the MRNA vaccines became available (and then deeply unpopular among the MAGA crowd).
https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w30512/w30512.pdf
Chuck, you dumb fuck- Republican majority districts skew much older than Democrat majority districts, and we know COVID kills people over the age of 70 at about 1000 times the rate of those under age 30. Anyone could have predicted more Republicans would die than Democrats- I even predicted that would be the case in even New York City, which is deep blue.
Try again, or just shut the fuck up about stuff you don't know shit about, which is apparently every topic there is.
Mutaman- excess deaths non-COVID related are running higher in all of Western Europe, all of which are even more vaccinated than the US. In the US itself, I just surveyed a few of the various states CA, NY, CT, and FL, TN, and ND, and there isn't a lot of difference, but the blue states excess deaths are equal or higher than all three of the red states, and FL should be the highest of the six given it is by far the oldest of the six, but is next to last in that 6 to ND over the last 4 months.
In short, it definitely can't be said that the vaccines aren't the cause- at best it can be said to be neutral, but with a probability leaning towards it as a cause.
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