Althouse: We binge-watched 2 seasons of "White Lotus" in 2 weeks.

January 6, 2023

We binge-watched 2 seasons of "White Lotus" in 2 weeks.

Discuss!

59 comments:

Mark said...: Enjoyed the first one a lot more as the dark humor and idea of privilege often provided excellent social comedy. Also, who was going to die was not so painfully obvious as it was in the 2nd season.

The short seasons that are self contained make it an ideal binge as its not inconceivable to watch it all in a day.; 1/6/23, 6:31 AM
rehajm said...: I haven't watched so fill me in...

YELLOWSTONE: DALLAS as WHITE LOTUS:

1) LOVE BOAT

2) LOST

3) FANTASY ISLAND

4) SCOOBY-DOO

5) THE OFFICE; 1/6/23, 6:36 AM
Ann Althouse said...: @rehajm

I wouldn't know, because I didn't watch Yellowstone or Dallas or Love Boat or Lost or Fantasy Island or Scooby-Doo or even The Office.

But I do watch Survivor, and I'm interested in "5 Reasons Why 'The White Lotus' is ABSOLUTELY Based on 'Survivor.'"; 1/6/23, 6:42 AM
rehajm said...: But I do watch Survivor, and I'm interested in "5 Reasons Why 'The White Lotus' is ABSOLUTELY Based on 'Survivor.'"

Helpful. Thank you!; 1/6/23, 6:44 AM
Ann Althouse said...: "Enjoyed the first one a lot more as the dark humor and idea of privilege often provided excellent social comedy."

I liked Season 1 better too. Armond was such a great character. And I especially enjoyed the teenage characters. There were no kids in Season 2. The interiors and art and scenery were better in Season 2!

"Also, who was going to die was not so painfully obvious as it was in the 2nd season."

Well, I figured — SPOILER — Tanya was on track to die, what with the inevitable boat ride back to the hotel and the Madame Butterfly death music, but I thought she might in some wacky way pull out a survival, and then she almost did. She's a survivor.

They have to use red herrings, so what seems obvious could just be a very red herring. I mean how are mysteries written? You've got to generate red herrings in with the real clues, and I bet writers change their mind sometimes and think the clues they've tucked in there will make everyone guess the answer, so they switch it around and Ethan and Cam have a fist fight in the water. That could have gone either way and Tanya could have remembered the stairway down to the boat, etc. etc.

What difference did it really make... other than if they'd wanted to re-use the Tanya character one more time. What a diva! But she was getting too big and would overshadow whatever dozen new characters they'll be shipping into Kyoto or wherever else Season 3 is going to take place.; 1/6/23, 6:56 AM
Lyle Smith said...: I actually liked season 2 better. I went in thinking it would be a let down, but it was well done. I can see how it could be based on Survivor: there are no happy endings for practically every character.; 1/6/23, 7:44 AM
Temujin said...: I've not watched any of White Lotus. Not sure I will. IS IT WORTH IT??

Yellowstone is a great series, but as it has moved on (season 5 now?) it's looking for a way to finish. Still very good, but looking for a landing. That said, it's spin-offs '1883' and now '1923' are outstanding. They're limited series actins as prelogues to Yellowstone.; 1/6/23, 7:50 AM
jim5301 said...: I loved Portia. Reminded me of a girl I used to date - till she broke up with me.; 1/6/23, 8:02 AM
Amexpat said...: I also liked Season 1 better. Season 1 had the contrast between the staff and clients, which, from personal experience, was pretty accurate. Armand was also a great character.

The plotting in Season 2 was sloppy. The hotel was shown to be up on a cliff so the beach club would be a fair distance. But an important plot point was a couple of the characters going quickly back and forth from the beach club to the hotel, which would not be possible.

They used Tonya for some cheap laughs, such as her riding on a Vespa. Have to admit, I succumbed.; 1/6/23, 8:15 AM
Ann Althouse said...: "I've not watched any of White Lotus. Not sure I will. IS IT WORTH IT??"

Oh, yes! We had a great time watching. Pay attention to everything. There are about a dozen characters to keep track of and the tracks go in interesting places, elegantly edited and perfectly cast.; 1/6/23, 8:19 AM
Ann Althouse said...: "I loved Portia. Reminded me of a girl I used to date - till she broke up with me."

I was just thinking Portia was my favorite character.; 1/6/23, 8:20 AM
Ann Althouse said...: "Portia was my favorite character"

... in season 2.; 1/6/23, 8:20 AM
Ann Althouse said...: Portia was the Belinda of Season 2, but she was given much more to do with it and she had a much more interesting attitude about her predicament in relation to Tanya.l; 1/6/23, 8:21 AM
Saint Croix said...: Scooby Doo 2 is actually amazing.

The guy who played Shaggy (Matthew Lillard) should have been nominated for an Academy Award.; 1/6/23, 8:22 AM
Saint Croix said...: Mike White is kind of brilliant.

School of Rock is so much fun!

And I liked Brad's Status a lot.

Have not seen White Lotus yet.; 1/6/23, 8:26 AM
Saint Croix said...: (The first Scooby-Doo movie sucks applesauce so don't bother); 1/6/23, 8:27 AM
Saint Croix said...: Just bought season 1

(I'm still rocking the DVDs); 1/6/23, 8:32 AM
Lyle said...: Like Survivor, most of the characters don't experience a happy ending. Loved both seasons. I expected season 2 to be a dud, but I liked it better than season 1. Italian actors were great.; 1/6/23, 8:37 AM
Iman said...: Meh.; 1/6/23, 9:12 AM
Dustbunny said...: I preferred Season two. I thought the young hookers were the analog to the young girls in season 1. I didn’t guess the wonderfully ditzy Tanya would die as she was the reason I got hooked on the show and thought she would move on to the next season. I think she was the only character who was in both. White Lotus without Jennifer Coolidge? Bold move or maybe she didn’t want to continue. I enjoyed how Mike Leigh played with audience expectations.; 1/6/23, 9:18 AM
Lurker21 said...: It's in the queue, but there's a lot in front of it. Thank you Google and the New York Post headline it brought up for revealing one of the plot twists for me.

Chuck and Buck was certainly something original and unexpected in its day. It worked for me. I didn't get School of Rock, though. It seemed like a 19th century Punch cartoon, the sort of thing that gets described as "droll" or "humorous" rather than funny. Jack Black created a character he thought was funny, but actual laughs were rare. Brad's Status had a lousy title and seemed too much about the kind of people I don't much like.

But Mike White is certainly talented and I look forward to seeing the show. If you actually watch reality TV, you may remember him and his dad in The Amazing Race, which I watched by accident once.; 1/6/23, 9:24 AM
Joe Smith said...: 'Binge' in 2 weeks?

I don't think you know the meaning of binge...; 1/6/23, 9:29 AM
FutureDeSantisVoter said...: Made me add Sicily to my bucket list.; 1/6/23, 9:34 AM
Amexpat said...: Made me add Sicily to my bucket list.

Was there a couple of years ago and it's a great place to visit. The whole island was much more prosperous than I had envisioned, even the big cities of Palermo and Catania, which I had expected to look like a scene from the Godfather.

The Greek ruins at Agrigento were more intact than anything I've seen in Greece. And it's easy to imagine your back in antiquity walking around the streets of Syracuse.

Taormina, where White Locus was filmed, is very scenic, but very upscale and not typical of the rest of the Island.

The food was great everywhere. "Rice balls" are my favorite street food.; 1/6/23, 10:03 AM
Kay said...: I think I may have liked this season more than the second. One thing I’m finding is that the murder aspect is pretty negligible for me. I’m not too interested in trying to guess, then I get to the end of the thing and it’s like, oh yeah that murder from the beginning!; 1/6/23, 10:05 AM
Marc said...: Is there any other good show or movie where the mystery is who will die by the end? I thought they used that tension extremely well. Also best written and acted line I've heard in a long time: "You should get a trainer . . ."; 1/6/23, 10:06 AM
Rusty said...: I watched both seasons because Jennifer Coolidge is just plain funny and who knew Aubrey Plaza could act.; 1/6/23, 10:28 AM
Jake said...: "Yellowstone is a great series"

Yellowstone is a trashy soap opera that jumped the shark season 1. It has appeal because beards and cowboys are hip right now.; 1/6/23, 10:32 AM
Joe Smith said...: '1. I didn’t guess the wonderfully ditzy Tanya would die...'

Spoiler alert! : ); 1/6/23, 10:42 AM
Dustbunny said...: I wrote Mike Leigh instead of Mike White although both directors play with audience expectations.; 1/6/23, 10:45 AM
Tom T. said...: Apparently Sicily is getting a big bump in tourism.

The plots in season 2 all felt kind of pointless, and trying too hard to recapture the freshness of the first season. In season 1, everyone was struggling with something. In season 2, everyone was just a jerk.

The family of guys with rotten marriages all got wrecked by a woman, but it didn't feel like comeuppance because it wasn't anything more than they could comfortably afford to pay. The boy lecturing his father, however justified, felt out of character and tiresome. The tech dude and his wife who didn't actually like each other figured out that they don't actually like each other, but they didn't do anything about it. Jennifer Coolidge's character was correctly played in season 1 as a foil to the put-upon masseuse; in season 2, they wanted to make her into a sympathetic character, and she's much too oblivious and obnoxious for that. The hotel staff was likable in season 1; in season 2, I disliked them all.

The young people just stumbled around in a fog as to what was happening around them. I wouldn't have thought there was enough to Portia's character for her to be someone's favorite. I guess she was not actively repellent like all the others.; 1/6/23, 11:25 AM
Heartless Aztec said...: "1883" and "1923" are some of the Best TV I've ever watched. Cinematic in productions values, superior A+ scripts and excellent acting. Worth every penny. And then some.; 1/6/23, 11:35 AM
Ann Althouse said...: Season 2 was officially about sex, and not one person experienced good sex. Everything was bad even when it seemed good for a moment. That’s a lot of badness to watch!; 1/6/23, 11:40 AM
Amexpat said...: eason 2 was officially about sex, and not one person experienced good sex. Everything was bad even when it seemed good for a moment. That’s a lot of badness to watch!

Somewhat true, but many exceptions. Albie seemed to enjoy the sex with the young hooker. It didn't even seem to bother him that much when he learned he was played.

I think there was real sexual chemistry between Portia and Jack. Portia may have later regretted having sex with him, but I think they both enjoyed it at at the time.

Valentia seemed to enjoy her sexual awakening with Mia. And Quentin, in a messed up way, probably got off on fucking Jack. Of course it was bad for Jack.

While there was a lot of odd games that Cameron and Daphne played with one another, they seemed to have a good time in bed with one another.; 1/6/23, 11:59 AM
Amexpat said...: who knew Aubrey Plaza could act.

My thoughts as well. I had only known her from her appearances on Letterman, where she sort had a comic oddball persona. But she was very good in this.

On the other hand, the guy who played her husband wasn't up to par. He really wasn't interesting. I know his character was supposed to be bland and passive, but a good actor can make that interesting.; 1/6/23, 12:03 PM
Joe Smith said...: 'Season 2 was officially about sex, and not one person experienced good sex.'

Any horse stuff?

Asking for a friend...; 1/6/23, 12:06 PM
The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...: First season was great, the second one was tiresome and oddly tone deaf. As if it was written by a visitor from 2018. Ironically, the rise of Woke makes it harder to do preachy with any deftness.

Honk for Jesus. Save Your Soul does it brilliantly and suggests there’s a rising self-awareness among some Black creatives.; 1/6/23, 12:38 PM
The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...: “1883” was absolutely ridiculous. Like someone tried to cross Blood Meridian with Romeo and Juliet. The past is not only a different country, it’s an immutable one as well.; 1/6/23, 12:45 PM
Ann Althouse said...: “ I think there was real sexual chemistry between Portia and Jack. Portia may have later regretted having sex with him, but I think they both enjoyed it at at the time.”

This those 2 ever even have sex? I think he sprawled out drunk and slept.; 1/6/23, 12:47 PM
Ann Althouse said...: We’re Ethan and Harper as interesting as Shane and Rachel? They were much less funny.; 1/6/23, 12:50 PM
eLocke said...: I've been imagining what the White Lotus resort Yelp review would look like ...

The resorts are wonderful facilities in outstanding surroundings and the food is exquisite. The company's choices in hotel managers, however, seem to be consistently depraved sexual deviants who allow their proclivities to interfere with their professionalism. 4 Stars.; 1/6/23, 1:02 PM
Amexpat said...: his those 2 ever even have sex? I think he sprawled out drunk and slept.

I remember that scene, according to Wikipedia that was the 6th episode, but I'm pretty sure they were sleeping together before that. In the synopsis for Episode 4, while they were still at the hotel, Wikipedia states: "Shortly after Jack and Portia leave the bar to sleep together"

In Episode 5, they are at the Villa and they explore the town and do the dash and dine in the evening. I think it's clear that they are lovers enjoying one another at that point before Episode 6 where he gets drunk so that they can't go back to the villa.; 1/6/23, 1:03 PM
cassandra lite said...: First season a bit better. The hotel manager kept it moving.

Second season casting wasn't as good, and some of the plotting (as in the first season) was both clumsy and predictable, though it was a hoot to see F. Murray Abraham camp it up.

The girl singer in the second season jumps off the screen and would be a big star here if she didn't have such a heavy Italian accident.

Show was clearly created and directed by a gay man.; 1/6/23, 1:03 PM
Lem the artificially intelligent said...: Aubrey Plaza is in it.

I'd watch it just because she's in it.

RTomato critics 91% with the audience at 70%.

About Mike White: Having emerged from the television world to find success in feature comedies, screenwriter-actor Mike White quickly became in-demand for his scripts that often featured central characters as alienated outsiders, weirdos and general malcontents who were nonetheless engaging, human and above all hilarious.

I'll give it a shot.; 1/6/23, 1:03 PM
tim in vermont said...: Well, I am in bed with the flu, flu shot didn't work, so what the hell, I'll watch it.; 1/6/23, 2:05 PM
Keith said...: Temujin - I found it horrible. I am a fan of the classics - Cary Grant, James Stewart. John Wayne. Godfather. Those are the movies I love. Dude, Where's my car was fantastic. Not a "classic" but well done. Deliver us from Eva I thought was hilarious. Just to get a sense of my taste in movies.

I found the characters one dimensional and miserable people. If you like that sort of thing - apparently a lot of people do - go for it. I watched the series and found I couldn't stop watching it but like watching a car wreck. Not a single character had any redeeming qualities. The grandfather is season two was cringy but at least I could see having a drink with him. Otherwise you have a couple fully invested in materialism with no further character development, that character's best friend who is a wimp, his wife who is a nag. That descriptions sums them up completely with nothing interesting about them. No depth. Just miserable one-dimensional characters following the path prescribed for them to their logical conclusions.

People seem to like Portia. She was brought to the luxury resort, has a gorgeous room, fantastic meals, the pool, touring, what a dream come true. And she cries saying "I thought life would be more interesting." She is a rich lady's assistant living in and enjoying a fantasy world normal people don't get to experience and she finds no enjoyment in this? Not only what a spoiled brat but just how bizarre. How are you exposed to such an amazing experience and find it boring. If you find THAT boring the problem is you, dear. You are just a boring person.; 1/6/23, 2:18 PM
JaimeRoberto said...: 1883 is horrible. They start in Texas but go way north. Did people actually do that? I guess they did if they got film subsidies from the State of Texas. I get that they are trying to avoid the Comanches, but in the show the Comanches are mostly peaceful, which was totally not true. They leave late in the year. Did they learn nothing from the Donner Party decades earlier? The people in the wagon train are portrayed as totally incompetent in a way that would be considered racist if it had been about non-Europeans. The first person to get killed by a wagon was a Gypsy, as if Gypsies had no experience with horses and wagons. And the main female character seemed remarkably resistant to cold given the way she was dressed. By the end of the series I was rooting for everyone to be killed.; 1/6/23, 2:21 PM
Tom T. said...: I think everyone who banged the "escorts" experienced good sex (except the guy who almost died). They just struggled afterward with the price of having done so.; 1/6/23, 2:59 PM
Saint Croix said...: If you've ever watched Jack Nicholson fuck up the Joker...

Or any of the so-called master actors try to play cartoon characters in Dick Tracy...

You realize that some actors can play cartoons

and some actors cannot play cartoons

I know it's a cartoon and it's for children and it's a comedy

but you try playing Shaggy and hit that level of believability.; 1/6/23, 3:09 PM
Lem the artificially intelligent said...: Funny. 3 hrs. ago I got a Substack notice from Andrew Sulli praising White Lotus. I'm just posting the first paragraph and the beginning of the second. I don't want to spoil it for myself and others.

"The Return of the Evil Gays" It's about time...

“These gays — they’re trying to murder me!” - Tanya McQuoid.

The character played by Jennifer Coolidge was referring to a clique of overly-mannered, ethically dubious, prissy aesthetes in Mike White’s second season of The White Lotus. (The equally brilliant first season got some Dish love here.) The phrase is now beyond a meme. Meticulously manicured, deeply frivolous, and parasitic on the very wealthy (especially widowed heiresses they can fawn over and then dispossess), the gay trope was deeply, even shockingly, old-school for 2022.

I was in fact surprised and not a little relieved that Mike White wasn’t subject to some kind of cancellation threat for the portrayal.; 1/6/23, 4:04 PM
James K said...: I caught parts of some episodes recently, presumably Season 2, and it seemed just trashy, nothing I wanted to watch another minute of. Yeah, maybe if I'd watched it from the beginning of Season 1 I might have appreciated it more, but life is short, I'm not willing to make the investment based on what I saw.; 1/6/23, 4:15 PM
Rusty said...: The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...
"“1883” was absolutely ridiculous. Like someone tried to cross Blood Meridian with Romeo and Juliet. "
As far as the story goes it was pretty accurate. I thought Sam Elliot overacted but on the whole those things happened to the people that traveled across the great plains.; 1/6/23, 5:08 PM
WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...: @ Jake

""Yellowstone is a great series" [???]

"Yellowstone is a trashy soap opera that jumped the shark season 1. It has appeal because beards and cowboys are hip right now. "

Agree. it's violent soap opera cowboy meets lame breaking bad. Plus anytime Hollywood uses a character who smokes cigarettes? lame.; 1/6/23, 7:22 PM
Susan in Seattle said...: Now we know what to watch next!; 1/6/23, 7:40 PM
Known Unknown said...: "I loved Portia. Reminded me of a girl I used to date - till she broke up with me."

Portia was so mid. The personality of a wet something or other. And she dressed like a retarded toddler.

I have opined that White Lotus is the most homophobic show on TV. The gays end up dead in both seasons.; 1/6/23, 8:08 PM
Known Unknown said...: I agree about Season 1 being overall better than Season 2, outside of the tourism porn.

The Godfather lecture was hilariously dumb. The story itself is set in the 40s and 50s, when guess what? Large Italian families (mafioso or not) were quite traditional, although I imagine a lot of them were actually matriarchies.

Season 2 was missing that sweet character like the awkward son who found his calling rowing with the natives.; 1/6/23, 8:28 PM
Saint Croix said...: Also, apropos of nothing

the Josie and the Pussycats movie has a song called Backdoor Lover

Stuff like that is why the "groomer" charge is very, very fair.; 1/6/23, 9:23 PM
gpm said...: I recall enjoying the first season, but I don't actually remember much of anything about it (hey, my short-term memory's gotten really short-term). I recently canceled HBO, so I don't know when, if ever, I'll be able to watch the second season.

I haven't set foot on a plane for over five years, but Sicily (probably in January!) is one of the few places I'd like to visit. Also the Cinque Terre. Maybe the Amalfi Coast. I might go to Egypt if they stopped killing people.

--gpm; 1/6/23, 10:54 PM
Saint Croix said...: I was in fact surprised and not a little relieved that Mike White wasn’t subject to some kind of cancellation threat for the portrayal.

He might be gay but he kept his balls.; 1/7/23, 8:04 AM