"In fact, the legal system would prefer defendants who aren’t a danger to others to stay out of prison, reducing costs. (The annual cost of detaining an inmate in New York City, for example, is over $500,000.) Mr. Bankman-Fried had another point of leverage: U.S. prosecutors had wanted to extradite him from the Bahamas quickly, to avoid both the perception of slow-moving justice and his getting hurt in a Bahamian jail before being moved to the U.S. If he had fought extradition, he would most likely have lost that fight, but it would have cost the U.S. time and money. In return, he wanted to stay out of prison before trial.... [W]hile prosecutors could herald a $250 million bail, one of the highest in history, he was ultimately released on something closer to his own recognizance... a standard arrangement. Prosecutors did demand that his parents post their home as collateral and co-sign the bail deal...."
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५८ टिप्पण्या:
I guess they decided he doesn't need to be suicided?
"In fact, the legal system would prefer defendants who aren’t a danger to others to stay out of prison, reducing costs.
Across much of America, thanks to Soros, the legal system prefers defendants who are a danger to others to stay out of prison.
So the $250mm was a lie for publicity purposes.
Does the govt ever tel the truth about anything?
But they keep telling me to trust them.
Fuck you. Peaceful resistance on every thing
John LGBTQ Henry
> Mom and dad's house as collateral
> He will be living with mom and dad
A 30-something not-a-man. Shocker.
Everything that has happened is consistent with the premise that SBF's investments in purchasing politicians and media were shrewd ones that will pay off well. The timing of the prosecution was prompted by the need to delay disclosure of the extent of his bribes.
People who commit crimes that do not involve violence, from people who do not pose a physical threat to other people should not be incarcerated. It costs us money to put them up. We'd be better served by garnishing their wages with the stipulation that they have to remain fully employed until their debt is paid off, even if that means "do you want fries with that". If they want to earn low wages so as to not be garnished as much, they are welcome to pick fruit or do other jobs Americans won't do. Crime should not always be punished with incarceration.
Who wants to bet that the home they put up will eventually be confiscated by the government anyway?
He's the major donor for the elites. He isn't going anywhere...except home. He will get a slap on the wrist.
Does anyone know if Bernie Madoff was out on bail before trial?
I guess they decided he doesn't need to be suicided?
@Jake, I don’t think that’s been decided yet.
Everything that has happened is consistent with the premise that SBF's investments in purchasing politicians and media were shrewd ones that will pay off well.
@Ampersand, + 1
The timing of the prosecution was prompted by the need to delay disclosure of the extent of his bribes.
You noticed that too?
"In fact, the legal system would prefer defendants who aren’t a danger to others to stay out of prison, reducing costs."
This is a joke of a statement (beyond its application to the super rich). Prosecutors, judges and politicians in the vast majority of the country are very happy keeping hundreds of thousands of minor offenders rotting in jail pretrial, unable to make bail payments, over risking a crime on their watch by a single person out on bail.
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/bankman-fried-asks-judge-hide-identities-bail-guarantors
"FTX founder Sam Bankman-Fried has asked a judge to conceal the identities of two people who will help secure his bail in addition to his parents' house in Palo Alto, California, Bloomberg reports.
"If the two remaining sureties are publicly identified, they will likely be subjected to probing media scrutiny, and potentially targeted for harassment, despite having no substantive connection to the case," wrote SBF's lawyers in a letter filed on Tuesday seeking redactions of the names of the two individuals who intend to sign as sureties to his bail.
"Consequently, the privacy and safety of the sureties are “countervailing factors” that significantly outweigh the presumption of public access to the very limited information at issue," the letter continues.
Bankman-Fried's $250 million bail package - granted in his first appearance on US soil since his arrest in the Bahamas, was secured by his parents' Palo Alto home, which is worth nowhere near that amount. The judge in the case also required that two people of "considerable means," at least one of whom cannot be a relative, also sign the bond.
The two individuals have not yet signed the bond but intend to do so by the Jan. 5 deadline, according to the letter."
Supposedly we get to hear tomorrow - or not - who these 'men of means' are. I hate these frauds so much it's unreal.
I answered my own question. Bernie was out on bail until he pleaded guilty.
It depends on what you call violence. With changes coming from leftist DAs and legislatures, many previously violent crimes are not counted as violent anymore, including breaking into homes and even carjacking. Rioting and mass attacks on retail stores, which are physically and psychologically terrifying for employees, aren't counted as crimes at all in many states. For decades, criminologists have known that a very small percentage of criminals commit huge percentages of all crimes, and diverse crimes too, large and small, not just one type. That's how they used to catch killers and rapists after popping them for subway toll jumping.
Now we just let them go. And wonder why more people keep getting pushed onto the tracks.
Bail rules are philosophical and political, not data a driven or rational. Isn't running a giant fraudulent enterprise violent? Aren't there people now in danger because he has the capacity to eliminate compatriots by ordering hits from his home? Doesn't the mere violation of victims' lives count as emotional violence? Just because a bunch of dumb bunny defense bar law professors have invented purely fictional definitions of violence versus nonviolence doesn't make such definitions a science. The assumptions currently guiding bail decisions are a giant metric of defense bar horseshit. We need more prisons.
How does this rationale for bail square with the treatment of non-violent J6 protestors?
The legal system appears to be broken in favor of the rich and connected, and the politically favored.
[W]hile prosecutors could herald a $250 million bail, one of the highest in history, he was ultimately released on something closer to his own recognizance... a standard arrangement.
The prosecutors are corrupt.
So are the media that announced this sham for them.
If you get your information about this event from the media and particularly the NYTs you are completely misinformed.
The NYT's is specifically trying to mislead people about what is happening here.
“A standard arrangement”. Sure. Now pull the other one.
I question the semantics of "disincentive to flee." It's from "incentive to flee" and is supposed to mean "incentive not to flee." But "disincentive" doesn't refer to anything, as its referent is spread out over three things in a specific relation: incentive, not, to flee. It refers to an incentive plus two other things.
There's the same long-standing problem with "disagree that," which has to mean "not agree that." There's nothing that you disagree.
They're negations that improperly invoke their models in negating.
Blogger Critter said...
How does this rationale for bail square with the treatment of non-violent J6 protestors?
Exactly ! He donated and promised more donations to Democrats. That's what did it.
Yeah, I was wondering about the J6 defendants as well. These people were frequently were fairly ordinary-looking citizens somewhere, tracked down by a massive FBI dragnet operation. Is it reasonable to consider them flight risks? Where will they go?
I think most of us imagine that SBF is a flight risk because he could buy himself a private jet and fly to some non-extradition country.
Tina:
"For decades, criminologists have known that a very small percentage of criminals commit huge percentages of all crimes, and diverse crimes too, large and small, not just one type. That's how they used to catch killers and rapists after popping them for subway toll jumping."
You're thinking of the broken windows theory, which is that small-scale disorder (like toll jumping) creates an environment of lawlessness that drives worse crimes. It is a contested theory, to say the least. But it's completely different from your suggestion that major criminals commit small-scale crimes and therefore policing small-scale crimes is the best way to catch these criminals. Not sure what theory is behind that.
"We need more prisons."
We have the most imprisoned people in the world, and on of the highest rates per capita, vastly higher than any other rich country and even higher that many of the most oppressive countries. Delete your account!
Related: shouldn't non-violent criminals always be held separately from violent criminals? This seems obvious.
Also related: Shouldn't the 25% of the prison population with psychopathy be held separately from the rest in facilities with specially trained staff? You cannot (currently) rehabilitate psychopaths, so why have them interfering with the rehabilitation of other prisoners?
follow the fecking money. These asshole Democrats have been exposed as the criminals they are.
he was ultimately released on something closer to his own recognizance... a standard arrangement
Awesome. Have fun Sam.
Hopefully Mr. Bankman Fried doesn't decide to run anybody over in Waukesha, WI while out on his own recognizance. I don't think there are any parades scheduled until summer. Lucky.
So the $250 Million is just symbolic? What a joke.
The annual cost of detaining an inmate in New York City, for example, is over $500,000.
==========
means === you can buy a did not kill himslef for less thn halfmil
Unless he is charged with being part of a political money laundering scheme involving Democrats and Ukraine...this is all for show.
However I do hope his biggest fans, Maxine Waters and Cory Booker, get to testify at his trial. Of course they will be protected along with all the other politicians that set up, helped launder, and deposited the dirty money.
Kind of like the Epstein client list.
$500k per, eh? What bullshit!
Lefties have overstated the cost of incarceration for decades. Here, probably by a multiple of ten. Of course, I’m discounting the impact of Democrat graft which might double my estimate. But $500k?
That’s ridiculous even for the NYT. If it were a real newspaper, not a megaphone for the DNC, it would investigate that absurdity - unless NYT itself is the source of the exaggeration.
A good civics lesson for our youth. Mike Rowe will NOT be including it in a How America Works
Episode.
A couple more nights in that prison would have done the trick. He would have been eager to go to Brooklyn detention. If they had sweated him just a bit he wouldn’t be at Mommy’s. They actually thought he might fight extradition?
"Over the break, I spoke with many involved in Mr. Bankman-Fried’s extradition from the Bahamas to the United States and with his bail arrangement. It’s a fascinating story of deal-making and negotiation, driven in large part by public perception."
- Andrew Ross Sorkin in the NY Times
And yet none of the "many involved" knew of the provision for two bail guarantors other than SBF's parents.
They're just making it up as they go along.
I am looking forward to the day when high-bail-worthy defendants can be asked to supply a body part as collateral. This is not some random joke: with advances in medical technology, cryopreservation and regenerative tissue repair, it will become routine to expect the Epsteins to deposit a testicle or two.
"Bail" will become, literally, "ball."
In fact, the legal system would prefer defendants who aren’t a danger to others to stay out of prison
Well, YEAH. That's because, The Legal System is to Protect Criminals from Victims.
The Legal System's ONLY concern, is that Victims DON'T start executing Criminals.
Mostly Because, The Legal System knows; that When That happens, they are next on the list to go
Serious Question..
WHEN The Legal System breaks down, and regular folk start stringing people up, Who is going to complain?
Well, The Legal System will; that's For Sure.
And Inga will probably be upset too... But, I'm guessing she'll stay inside and stew.
gilbar will be SAD, but he's not going to complain either
Wa St Blogger said...
We'd be better served by garnishing their wages with the stipulation that they have to remain fully employed until their debt is paid off, even if that means "do you want fries with that"
And.. HOW LONG, approximately, would SBF have to work, to pay off the BILLIONS that he stole?
At ANY pay rate?
"People who commit crimes that do not involve violence..."
I have learned in recent times that this can include silence or wrong speak or voting for a "bad" candidate. Lots more, I presume.
This footloose, entitled, above-the-law mindset permeates Brooklyn (Crooklyn?) and other bastions of Marxist ideology.
Sometimes one, both, and neither. #ProsecutorialDiscretion #PoliticalCongruence
"For prosecutors, bail is meant to be a strong disincentive to flee, not to make a statement about justice."
Isn't not fleeing a condition for justice being done?
"In fact, the legal system would prefer defendants who aren’t a danger to others to stay out of prison, reducing costs"
Danger, defined how? Couldn't costs be reduced further by charging defendants and convicts?
Anyway, why isn't bail used in all the phony asylum cases?
You're thinking of the broken windows theory, which is that small-scale disorder (like toll jumping) creates an environment of lawlessness that drives worse crimes. It is a contested theory, to say the least.
Daniel 12 has a better theory. Let all the criminals out and let them shoot it out. Of course that requires a certain number of innocent victims but the earth has too many people and global warming is going to kill us all.
Isn't that your theory, Daniel?
Well, in SBF's defense, he wasn't charged with violent parading and selfie-taking.
I really don't have a problem with him making bail (even Madoff was granted bail, though it was later revoked). I would have been happy with the amount simply being secured by his parents' homes- but I do think the public has a right to know who else guaranteed this bail amount sinc this has the appearance of corruption.
However, if SBF were deeply and politically connected to, let's say, Matt Gaetz and Ted Cruz, he would be denied bail and sent to room with the murderers and rapists.
@Daniel12:
I don't believe Dr. Trent was referring to the Broken Windows Theory, as such. Instead, I think her chief point is that a large percentage of crime is committed by repeat-offending career criminals and that it is important to protect the public from this cohort.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3969807/
https://popcenter.asu.edu/content/analyzing-and-responding-repeat-offending
https://dcist.com/story/22/02/18/majority-of-dc-homicides-driven-by-small-group/
https://www.city-journal.org/three-facts-about-crime
Where is The Fix? Is The Fix still out?
No. The Fix is in.
"In fact, the legal system would prefer defendants who aren’t a danger to others to stay out of prison, reducing costs."
I wonder if anyone at the NYT has ever heard of the Gulag. The DC Gulag, I mean. Where Merrick Garland's preference for cost reduction has been on display for two years now.
Sure Bankman fried is NOT a flight risk. why would he be? Given his wealth, triple citizen ship, and lack of any real connections to the USA (except his parents, etc.).
Marc Rich? Not a flight risk. Polanski? Not a flight risk. Remember the guy who fled to France after stuffing his murdered girl friend in a suitcase? Not a flightrisk.
Why in the hell are the J6 protesters still in jail? THese people aren't going anywhere and most have families/jobs and are just citizens of ONE country.
WHy is the judge keeping the people who are guaranteeing the $250 million a secret? Is that so when Bankman-fried skips town, we won't blame them?
I dunno. I keep getting shocked at the Legal system and USA political system. I think it can't get anymore tyrannical or corrupt, and then it does. And all the sheeple just go baa, baa. Maybe that's the best way. Just stop caring and tend your own garden. And hope you and your family stay safe.
"We have the most imprisoned people in the world, and on of the highest rates per capita, vastly higher than any other rich country and even higher that many of the most oppressive countries."
America has both the highest number of people incarceratetd and the highest incarceration rate per capita. When one speaks of oppressive countries, one must include the USA in that cohort.
"Related: shouldn't non-violent criminals always be held separately from violent criminals? This seems obvious."
In a civilized nation with concern for the welfare of even incarcerated persons, yes. Our jailers do not care about the welfare of their inmates, violent or non-violent.
"Also related: Shouldn't the 25% of the prison population with psychopathy be held separately from the rest in facilities with specially trained staff? You cannot (currently) rehabilitate psychopaths, so why have them interfering with the rehabilitation of other prisoners?"
Do you think jails and prisons have the funds, staff, and time to discriminate between violent and non-violent prisoners and to have separate facilities for each category of prisoners? Do you think they even care? They don't.
It’s alleged that SBF was using a computer after he was released on bail and allegedly moving FTX money around. WTF? The AG’s office is not tech savvy enough to realize that this computer whiz kid may try to break back into his former company’s accounts? This guy’s livelihood was all based on high tech trading. A young child could have figured that one out. One of the conditions the AG’s office should have put on his bail was NO INTERNET ACCESS, whether via computer or smartphone. If he wanted to use a phone, he could use an old style flip phone with no texting activated with all phone calls monitored by the Feds. And the court should have slapped anyone who assisted SBF in violation of these terms with charges that could face harsh punishment as well.
A LEGAL QUESTION FOR ANN ALTHOUSE: How can the court keep the names of the two anonymous bail guarantors under wraps? Isn’t this a public records issue? I very much want to know who is propping this scumbag up and if they are worried about their reputation, that’s the risk they take. This is not a state secret case nor are these individuals like those witnesses in a case whose lives are in danger such as when their testimony is used in an organized crime case.
Daniel 12’s “splanation” of Broken Windows Theory deserves a little factual development. I lived the NYC experience under Beame, Koch and Dinkins. I used the subways a lot at a time when Bernard Goetz made the news.
What I found noteworthy among the fare-beaters and taggers and loud boys with boomboxes the size of a king mattress, was their arrogance. They pretty much knew they could get away with stuff. It was almost as if “small offender” could morph instantly into “very much more serious offender” at the flick of a switchblade. The pervasive sense was contempt for rules of any kind. I felt that in their eyes we civilians were just cattle. I also think a big contributing factor was the filthy condition of the subway system: broken equipment, garbage in the cars, drunks and addicts sprawled on seats, and graffiti EVERYWHERE. As soon as a car had been cleaned of the tagging, it would be hit again. The message was: we own this town.
When Giuliani came, that atmosphere changed pretty fast. Broken Windows Theory really does make sense in the real world. IMHO. Maybe Daniel12 has different data to offer.
"Do you think jails and prisons have the funds, staff, and time to discriminate between violent and non-violent prisoners and to have separate facilities for each category of prisoners?"
Your local Department of Corrections had about 5,000 prisoners and about 8,500 uniformed guards at the end of 2021.
I bet they could spare one or two of the screws to do the discriminating.
America has both the highest number of people incarceratetd and the highest incarceration rate per capita. When one speaks of oppressive countries, one must include the USA in that cohort.
Now subtract one demographic cohort that represents about 5% of the population from the statistics for the whole nation and check again. Then compare that cohort to the rest of the world.
Then go to the prions and check how many of those incarcerated were raised with no father in the home.
NYT's masthead should be," We covered for genocide, more than once".
Robert Cook said:
"America has both the highest number of people incarceratetd and the highest incarceration rate per capita. When one speaks of oppressive countries, one must include the USA in that cohort."
Well, they're running a real-time experiment in a lot of locations across the United States wherein they're not prosecuting or punishing anyone for crime and disorder. See Minneapolis and Portland, Oregon for examples.
How's that working out, again?
The real question that needs to be addressed isn't "Why do we imprison so many people?" but "Why are so many people criminals in need of imprisonment?"
The US has a rate of criminality and violence far in excess of places like Iceland and Japan. Why is that? Again, to ask the question is to answer it: The US is a polyglot place, full of migrants that didn't fit in at home. That has positive implications, as well as negative ones. The negative ones are that that population is a hell of a lot more violent and criminal than most of the ones you try to compare them to. It's not apples and oranges; you want to experience a learning event? Try going to Central America on some weekend evening and go out into the hinterlands where all the farmworkers are out partying after a hard week's work at the finca. Odds are, that unless things have significantly changed since the last time I was down that way, you're going to see a rate of violence that would leave you aghast and horrified. Friend of mine was down in El Salvador, went out for an evening's entertainment with some locals. In the course of that evening, he watched at least three attempted killings with farm implements like machetes take place, and was told that it was a "quiet night". He was never really very sure how many of those men died, if any of them did, but they were slashed up enough to have lost limbs.
It's real easy to sit in a monocultural backwater that shed most of its disruptive population elements to the New World, and decry the state of incarceration in the US. The real fact of the matter is that we really don't incarcerate enough, and the right people. If the actual criminal element and gang-affiliated killers that do most of the slaughter got locked up and stayed that way, our murder rate would drop.
But, incarcerating the committed career criminal isn't acceptable. Nor is observing that people who commit crimes of violence against others are usually going to keep committing them again and again. Were we to do something sensible and take the commission of a violent act as an actual behavioral indicator, and then act accordingly? You'd see a much lower rate of crime within a generation. People who try to kill other people for money or self-gratification are rarely reformable, and do not belong in the general population.
Daniel 12: evidence? Statistics? A real name to certify your credentials to discuss this with me?
Nothinburger. Unsurprising, sweetie.
What is coming: The gathering, storage, availability and use of ever more data (personalized, cheap, AI guided) about each of us than ever before. In criminal prosecution this data will form a richer ‘avatar’ of a person within the criminal/criminal defense framework. You left the party at x time...you pinged these towers, within 10 feet of these other suspects phones, you had this prior search history, you have this skill set, job history and experience, you were visible at x location etc.
More tools, richer applications.
I’m willing to bet: With moves towards identity category, global village technocracy, social sentimentalization, oppressor/oppressed, the -personal-is-political, rationalist/irrationalist thinking....
....there will be more dystopian impersonality and lower trust relationships (more than with technology alone), more authoritarian and ham-handed monitoring of everyone (cameras on every corner), more politicized institutions, and more inefficient policing of the offending criminals and highest probability offenders.
Of note to me with SBF: weve eroded common sense enough that normal human self interest and corruption must fit into new collectivized and utopian thinking. This horseshit has legs (I’m getting rich to give it away). It’s whats replacing a more no-nonsense skepticism for a lot of people. This regresses towards lack of personal responsibility, lack of honor, lack of agency and actual human behavior.
"America has both the highest number of people incarceratetd and the highest incarceration rate per capita. When one speaks of oppressive countries, one must include the USA in that cohort."
Diversity (e.g. racism) breeds adversity (e.g. Critical Racists' Theory). Single/central/monopolistic solutions (e.g. Medicare/Medicaid/Obamacares) are first-order forcings of [catastrophic] [anthropogenic] progressive prices. Environmental (e.g. Green deals) and labor (e.g. immigration reform) arbitrage. Social justice anywhere is injustice everywhere. Political congruence ("=") is exclusive. Coups without borders without cause. Recurring nationwide insurrections. A class-disordered secular religion that denies dignity and agency, and normalizes human life as negotiable commodities. They think that they can abort the baby, cannibalize her profitable parts, and have her, too, through shared responsibility.
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