doesn't this cut against the theory that depolarizing opinion on electric cars by making Musk a right-wing culture war hero helps Tesla?
— Jonathan Chait (@jonathanchait) November 19, 2022
It's just by chance that this post has the letters EV to mean "electric vehicle" when the previous post had me tripped up on the letters EV, which turned out to mean "expected value." Sam Bankman-Fried, we're told, liked to ask his employees “What’s the expected value?” of any given decision and used the shorthand "EV" to concentrate opinion on getting results.Maybe. Could be industry wide problem with EVs that's just also happened to unfold this fall. https://t.co/V5Nw096snY
— Matthew Yglesias (@mattyglesias) November 19, 2022
It's funny that Elon Musk has competition in the billionaire genius category this week. SBF came out of nowhere.
Anyway, does Musk's reign over Twitter detract from Tesla? I think so. I told you on November 8th: "I saw a Tesla driving in my neighborhood yesterday and I said out loud: 'I'll bet a lot of Tesla owners are mad that the thing they thought made them look cool now seems right wing.'"
Chait adverts to the theory that an infusion of right-winginess into Tesla will sell more Teslas, but I think it will make Teslas seem toxic to non-right-wingers, and right-wingers, on the other hand, just don't want electric cars. I do think there's a small set of people who idolize Musk. Small... and getting smaller.
पोस्ट्स
९६ टिप्पण्या:
What it does is cut against the theory that entertainers can spout political wokeness with no resulting impact on their box office. Maybe H'wood, seeing this--or their own reaction to Musk--will get the message that it's not good business to piss off half the potential market.
Funny, the only Tesla owner I know is a right wing Republican. A typical one, in that he is a small business owner who has rentals and likes to buy cool new stuff.
Prius owners otoh.
Yglesias & Chait are discussing Tesla on Twitter.
Musk will be fine.
The sheer number of partisan scolds is plummeting.
This is about the Government Regime and corruption.
The government Regime demands the right to pick winners and losers. And if you do not support the Regime they want to destroy your company.
Right now Free Speech is "right-wing." This is a really stupid move by the Regime.
Brazil is about to have an armed revolution.
The globalists are about to run into the will of the people all over the world.
"... the theory that depolarizing opinion on electric cars by making Musk a right-wing culture war hero helps Tesla?"
This kind of thinking epitomizes the problem with our headlong rush into this insanity; these people look at this a a political/cultural issue. No thought to the engineering and physics limitations to a nationwide adoption of EVs. Widespread adoption of EVs is going to fall on its own, not because the cool kids can't convince the rest of us.
The cruelly neutral person that weighs the market on left wing / right wing values. Interesting? Tell us more about your political bias.
Since “right-wingers” are for free speech, can we have the name “liberal” back, since “liberals” have planted themselves in direct opposition to liberty and personal freedom?
I like Elon Musk. But I'm not buying an electric car. They're cool, but they're also kinda bullshit.
I'd say it's an overall market trend. How much are you willing to spend on your virtue signal?
Let's say the political assumptions of the tweets are true. The some liberals dropped out of the electric car market because of the cost of living, and conservatives didn't pick up the slack just because Elon in taking on the establishment.
In an economic downturn for ALL stock values, they're just picking on Tesla?? The Fed interest rate hikes are meant to slow spending to curb inflation. I'd imagine currently combined with the inflation and price increases...things are going to slow down...especially cars.
It's ridiculous. Example:
Is Jeff Bezos' crazy Washington Post liberalism tanking Amazon's stock price?"
Though the Twitter logo is a flat graphic, it does imply the right wing of the bird being on display.
Those opposing Musk make a living by having opinions. Opinions are cheaply made products with limited shelf life and won't replace fossil fuels anytime soon.
EVs are not environmentally friendly, but that doesn't matter. They don't have a combustion engine, therefore they're good to a certain set of people.
But not good enough to overcome one man's personality. I guess I should be happy he's tanking a company I didn't want to see succeed.
The problem with this theory is that the subject of Tesla cars selling is treated like a political decision. The cold facts, which are more important to car buyers, are that others cars lag in customer satisfaction and infrastructure. Tesla had//has 80% of the market worldwide because their cars were better than Chevy and Ford and every start-up competitor, most of which are not thriving like Tesla. Remember when Bill Gates (now a darling of the left) was hated? It was also the precise point in history when MicroSoft had about 80% of the PC market running his software. All the Gates Hate back then did zip to change the facts.
People tend to virtue signal with their mouths but make rational decisions with their money, more so when recession is upon us.
Correlation, causation. I'm not getting my stock tips from this guy.
Or is this one of those meme thingys, that assert over the top stupidity in search of a laugh?
This alleged theory doesn't really live up to that term, Is there a theory? Where is the hypothesis and what is the proof? It really just sounds like liberal writers using big-boy vocabulary when they have no idea what the words mean. Especially these two who barely have enough brain cells to follow the news. Juice box mafia still acting childish.
There's something to this. Once something gets politicized, and electric cars have been, the best strategy in terms of sales might be to double down on the politicization. NPR, the NYTimes and WashPost come to mind. Every time NPR puts on an even moderate (in terms of politics) commentator, they get inundated with complaints and threats to drop support. Probably better financially to have a smaller group be fanatically loyal to you, at the cost of having a large group hate you, than a larger group not so much.
I'm seeing the same things at my university. If they go for ideological diversity in order to court right of center donors, they risk losing their left-of-center donors. Best strategy for maximizing donations might be to go even more left-of-center.
Tesla was ridiculously over-valued by at least 1 magnitude. It is still over-valued, but not as badly now.
That was a quick switch from lfty hero to "right wing" enemy.
Wouldn't it be something if Elon Musk buying Twitter is the act that reveals that electric vehicles aren't generally practical?
Electric cars have been popular long enough that the problems are obviously not easily resolved. They still occasionally catch on fire, replacement batteries are expensive, charging takes a long time, our electrical grid isn't sufficiently robust and range is limited in cold weather.
Buying an electric car is a virtue signal, but with Elon Musk going rogue, the signals are getting crossed.
I do think there's a small set of people who idolize Musk. Small... and getting smaller.
I suspect you’d be surprised at how large “small” can be.
Chait needs to watch some old Star Trek reruns. What has happened is a polarity reversal, not depolarization.
I should do some field interviews. Around here, it's normal to be able to count half a dozen Teslas around you at any random stoplight.
A couple tweets down shows that Tesla is simply tracking the trends of the whole EV industry. Omission is one of the most powerful tools of rhetoric.
The left are so furious with Elon - they are going to stop buying Teslas.
Even tho - many of them already own teslas.
It's the kind of immature garbage you get from the left.
Free speech is only cool if the corrupt Hillary left can control it.
On your last observation, you are likely correct. I have zero interest in an electric car. Heck, I’m looking at a street legal, gas powered golf cart for puttering around the neighborhood and even trips to the grocery store about a mile from the house.
An EV doesn’t have the EV my family needs. I drive a 13 mpg truck that I use for multi visit client meetings, some fairly rural and no infrastructure for charging; my wife travels for her work as well and the distances aren’t conducive for charging without adding extra time to the drive.
I am extremely interested in solar but not with any out of pocket costs or doing some poor payback financing. But I don’t want it to save the environment. I want it for the Zombie Apocalypse. I’ve had Tesla and several other companies look at my roof and there is no path without dropping a lot of cash for a system, including batteries to store the energy.
Musk is an interesting dude. I don’t think conservatives are enamored with him to the extent that the left had him at cult status for a bit; I think it’s just sort of fun watching him troll a bit. That’s where the bulk of my amusement comes from anyway.
But the SpaceX ambitions are another story for me entirely. What’s funny is jumping onto to science sites like Ars Technica and seeing the evolution of the commenters with their posts about Muck as he went from visionary status with the cool crowd to anathema as he got red-pilled. Almost like they now want SpaceX to fail, which is really sad given how revolutionary it has been in the past decade returning us to the heavens.
Fickle folks just don’t grasp the EV.
Elon Musk understands what is at stake for the world's rich elite.
If these Democrats (Socialists) are allowed to run wild any further, they are absolutely going to confiscate everything the Jeff Bezos' of the world, the Elon Musks' of the world, have worked so hard to create. They would be hauled before a People's Court one day and put before a wall as "hoarders and wreckers."
That is what is at stake: Their very lives.
Musk understands that you cannot let a bunch of psychopaths loose on society.
It's a good time to buy TSLA.
What do stock prices for Marvel and Disney look like since they got out of the entertainment business and went into virtue-signaling full time?
Just trying to break the people about Musk. He's too important to MAGA.
Slippery little turds they are!
Tesla stock is dropping along with the industry—it’s doing neither particularly well nor poorly short-term. (And short-term seems to be the timeline everyone is working in these days.) I doubt the PR that’s going on around Musk and twitter will have much effect on Tesla (Tesla’s target consumer is too financially savvy to buy a 2nd rate EV simply because the owner of the 1st rate EV company had some bad press recently). My question is, how can Musk run yet another company and take on the distraction of tweeting 50 times a day? That’s where I expect twitter to hurt him (if at all—in truth, I have no idea how he spends his waking hours).
Bias is a polarized model.
As I understand it, Tesla car production is sold out for the next 2-3 years. They can't make enough cars. This right-left point is moot.
The other companies still make gas cars.
Advert => avert?
This Tesla stock owner doesn’t care much. I didn’t care about Musk’s politics when I bought some shares in 2018 but I saw its potential. It is a risky stock that doesn’t pay dividends, so what? After more than doubling my money, I sold half of it, got my original investment back plus a hefty profit. I still have half my original shares, I’m playing with Tesla house money now.
I think you’re wrong, a very large, not small, group of people regard Musk with great admiration. I don’t think you meant idolize in a religious sense did you? It’s not about his politics, it about his achievements.
"Theory" is a pretty lofty term to apply to two lightweight idiot reporters.
This post and the supposed theory make the error of confusing "right-wing" with "not extreme left-wing."
Elon Musk is not a "right-winger," he is better described as a free speech centrist who is not an extreme "left-winger."
Yes. It does.
The oldest man in the room?
EVs and even the regular car market is moving to dire straits as the cost of the vehicles is increasingly out of the range of more and more, even affluent, customers. Interest rates ravage the idea of buying $80k vehicle. The used car market is poised to crash in the next few weeks as the collapse of Carvana is expected to dump a huge amount of vehicles on the already stalled market.
And reality is hitting the EV hype. EVs are a lot of mental anguish for long trips. And they are very vulnerable to any disruption in the chip market for spares.
Anecdotal evidence only, but I know one right-wing person who already drives a Tesla and another who wants to trade in his Jeep Gladiator for a Tesla. I'd like one, but can't afford it.
I call them "right-wing", but I really don't know all of their political opinions, just that I would definitely not call them left-wing.
I think antipathy towards Musk from the left has been greater and broader than appreciation of him from the right. The right likes his stance on free speech, but also realizes that he's still fairly liberal on most other things. The left doesn't care that he's with them on 99% of the issues, they're hating him for that 1% of difference.
I base this on people I know - left, right, and center - and not on Twitter or news media loudmouths. YMMV.
I had no opinion until all the Right People started rooting for him to fail.
"I suspect you’d be surprised at how large “small” can be."
It is a large small the size of a small small.
"EVs are a lot of mental anguish for long trips."
Yep. I know my personality. I'd be a nervous wreck. I can't be the only one.
“ Advert => avert?”
No. Advert is correct. It means to turn your attention to.
"Electric cars have been popular long enough that the problems are obviously not easily resolved. They still occasionally catch on fire, replacement batteries are expensive, charging takes a long time, our electrical grid isn't sufficiently robust and range is limited in cold weather."
Gas cars have been popular long enough that the problems are obviously not easily resolved. They still occasionally catch fire and explode in accidents, the fuel cost fluctuates wildly with gas prices dependent on Saudi Arabia and Russia and for trucks and big SUVs could be $400+ a month, they accelerate slowly at huge energy cost, they need regular oil and break pad replacements and tons of other maintenance to keep going for a long time, they make the air quality much worse in cities, they cause asthma in kids living near highways, and they are a huge contributor to climate change.
(If your eye jumps right to the last one and you feel the urge to make some big point about climate change, it doesn't invalidate the other problems, which are non-controversial.)
I wonder if a Tesla burning to ashes when hitting road debris will have an effect on TSLA stock prices.
I'll just pick one: "the fuel cost fluctuates wildly with gas prices dependent on Saudi Arabia and Russia "
Doesn't have to. Perhaps you slept through the Trump presidency.
> they are a huge contributor to climate change.
We're recycling sequestered carbon and restoring CO2 levels to what they should be.
As much as I would like to express an opinion on this, I honestly have no idea if this is good, bad, or neutral for Musk. It is apparent from the midterms that the motivations of a large chunk of the population are beyond my comprehension, and since having an opinion on this is dependent on understanding how the Tesla customer base thinks I am baffled as to how they will react.
Daniel12, I direct you to this part of Randomizer's post, which in my opinion he severely undersells:
"...our electrical grid isn't sufficiently robust..."
He's saying that as of right now with our current electric grids, wholesale switching to electric cars is literally impossible. Basically, all the other arguments, both his and yours, are irrelevant; it simply cannot be done without a massive expansion of the electric grid, and that electric grid must be reliable so solar and wind are not a viable solution. This is something Musk has admitted, as have several other car manufacturers, who are baffled that politicians do not understand the most basic facts of this issue, seemingly thinking that electricity is produced by magic.
There is also the matter that an electric car is only as clean as the power plant that produces the electricity. A Tesla powered from a coal power plant is a coal powered car. That also goes for hydrogen cells, as the primary way to extracting hydrogen is to use electricity to break up water molecules.
If you really, really want to replace gas and diesel automobiles with electric ones, and you are really concerned about "climate change," then you best get excited about lots and lots of nuclear plants. Anything else is either wishful thinking, or simply an excuse to radically reorder the world to your liking.
What does libertarian philosophy have to do with electric cars?
Gas cars have been popular long enough that the problems are obviously not easily resolved. They still occasionally catch fire and explode in accidents, the fuel cost fluctuates wildly with gas prices dependent on Saudi Arabia and Russia and for trucks and big SUVs could be $400+ a month, they accelerate slowly at huge energy cost, they need regular oil and break pad replacements and tons of other maintenance to keep going for a long time, they make the air quality much worse in cities, they cause asthma in kids living near highways, and they are a huge contributor to climate change.
They do not spontaneously catch fire. The fuel costs fluctuate with political intrigue and Green spread. Diverse vehicles are constructed with diverse requirements (i.e. color, shape, size, performance) in order to meet market demand. They accelerate with energy efficiency proportional to load. They require break replacements in proportion to context (so-called regenerative breaking has the same tradeoff). They require regular maintenance, if only an oil change every 3 to 4 thousand miles. Maintenance mitigates progress of pollutants locally, while Green technology shares responsibility remotely. They contribute to the net-zero effect of Greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, which has been inferred as a forcing to [catastrophic] [anthropogenic] climate cooling... warming... change. They share hydrocarbon sources and power generation with electric vehicles.
"EVs are a lot of mental anguish for long trips."
Long trip and short trips with fast acceleration, hard braking, creature comforts, integrated load, climate change, climate stasis, or changing geography.
"I do think there's a small set of people who idolize Musk."
A small set the size of a large set...
Musk took away the left's favorite sledgehammer and they're still going batshit insane over it.
Good. The thugs deserve their misery.
Personally, I can’t think of a car company I would invest in right now. The big ICE car companies are committed to replacing their ICE vehicles with EVs. Which means that they are putting essentially zero into R&D in anything outside of actual EV research. There are problems that just aren’t getting solved. One of the Detroit 3 won an award last year at CEMA for technology that they don’t have a contract for even now, and this year they didn’t show.
Which gets me to the EV problem. I might buy one around here in PHX. It seems like every other house in the neighborhood has a Tesla, and the house just to the east of us has two, compensating for us not having even one. Easy to have a charger in the garage, charge overnight, and never run out of juice around town. We still seem to have enough electricity (AZ still appears to be exporting electricity to CA, as do a half dozen other states). But with Bidenflation, buying one on credit right now is ridiculous. But think about living somewhere like CA - which is facing brownouts, and even blackouts, all ready, despite importing power from a half dozen states (OR, WA, ID, MT, UT, AZ). Yes, even UT. Saw the other day that CA now has MeV HVDC lines between it and both WA and UT. It’s not going to be popular for the middle and lower class to give up their AC, so that rich liberals can virtue signal by driving EVs.
For me, if I were to buy an EV, it would be a Tesla. Period. The small EV manufactures don’t have enough market yet to get all of the bugs out of their cars, and the big ICE car companies, at least the American and European ones, just aren’t innovating anymore, and I question whether at least the US based companies can get their act together over the next decade to do a good job of building a decent EV.
What’s funny is they show a graph of 4 companies tanking and rather than discuss the common economic condition, we are supposed to focus on one business owner. Let’s not mention Biden’s recession when we can talk about shiny object Musk.
Kansas Tesla owner here again. Confirmed Conservative (if that word can be equivalent of Right Winger). Almost always a Republican voter. (As an aside, before the election in a group dinner we challenged each other about the last time we had voted against our preferred party. So in my ballot study, I found 1 Democrat that I could comfortably vote for. I think I will continue that challenge). Regarding Teslas - I think Right Wingers aren’t opposed to EVs. They/we are opposed to being forced to buy an EV.
We think we are capable of judging our specific situations and making informed decisions, Adam Smith style.
The point of a Tesla is that you get to feel like you're "saving the planet" while still having fun. They're like one of those kids' recipes where you sneak vegetables into ice cream. They're comfortable, have great acceleration, and by all accounts are enjoyable to drive. Avoiding gas stations is just a side benefit.
They also look enough like high-end sports cars to make them acceptable babe magnets. (For some reason all electric cars seem marketed toward guys -- including Tesla's crossover SUV -- maybe because they're basically just gadgets.) Back when wealthy people were demonstrating environmental consciousness by driving Priuses, it seemed cool for Leo DeCaprio to roll up to a club in a car that looked like an uglier Honda Civic. But 24-year-old models were going to date him anyway. If you're a regular person looking for social success in New York or L.A., a Tesla is definitely the way to go. Will Musk's changing reputation affect that? Not until there's an equally cool-looking, instantly recognizable electric vehicle from someone else.
I will never buy a Tesla or any EV. First, I'm old. Second, there will be a day when the climate hysteria collapses. It is not clear which will come first, an economic collapse or the hysteria collapse. "Fossil Fuels" will be the basis of civilization until nuclear power is finally mainstreamed. A few cold winters and blackouts in summer should do the trick for "fossil fuels."
Daniel12 asserted: "Gas cars have been popular long enough that the problems are obviously not easily resolved. They still occasionally catch fire and explode in accidents, the fuel cost fluctuates wildly with gas prices dependent on Saudi Arabia and Russia and for trucks and big SUVs could be $400+ a month, they accelerate slowly at huge energy cost, they need regular oil and break pad replacements and tons of other maintenance to keep going for a long time, they make the air quality much worse in cities, they cause asthma in kids living near highways...
Problems with gas cars? They just had a Tesla fry on I-80 in PA this past week. Firemen could not put it out. Gas prices fluctuate? Thx FJB. Poor mileage? I drive a 45mpg diesel Passat. Tons of maintenance costs. I have driven 50K miles and replaced two front tires and 4 brakes. Asthma near highways? Cite a source.
You're talking out your fanny.
Hey everyone - just so you know FREE SPEECH IS ..... RIGHT WING
"Regarding Teslas - I think Right Wingers aren’t opposed to EVs. They/we are opposed to being forced to buy an EV."
Yep. Daniel can have his EV. More power to him. But that's not good enough. He's got to force me to buy one too.
"they make the air quality much worse in cities"
"much worse" went away in the 80s.
Electric Cars: Inconvenient Facts, Part 2
SBF's reference to EV was ENTERPRISE VALUE, not Expected Value. It's a common term in finance representing the value of the business. The over-simplified calculation of EV is Market Cap + Debt.
Too many lawyers here. Not enough business & finance types. Shocked I'm the first to clarify this. Usually the commentariat here is crowd-sources questions like this pretty quickly.
"I drive a 45mpg diesel Passat. Tons of maintenance costs. I have driven 50K miles and replaced two front tires and 4 brakes."
Tires and brake pads? Don't EVs have tires and brakes, too?
"Daniel can have his EV. More power to him. But that's not good enough. He's got to force me to buy one too."
Everything not prohibited is mandatory.
“ We're recycling sequestered carbon and restoring CO2 levels to what they should be.”
The reality is that had we not started releasing carbon, the plants would have kept on sequestering it until they starved themselves and the planet turned into a snowball again, as it has done twice.
The “handle” on the “hockey stick” was trending down and had it not been for the “blade” we would be experiencing Little Ice Age style crop failures.
It’s a testament to the power of the propaganda we have all been subjected to that these two self evident and important facts seem to us like the conspiracy theories of “nutters.”
Static Ping said...
As much as I would like to express an opinion on this, I honestly have no idea if this is good, bad, or neutral for Musk. It is apparent from the midterms that the motivations of a large chunk of the population are beyond my comprehension, and since having an opinion on this is dependent on understanding how the Tesla customer base thinks I am baffled as to how they will react.
****************
Ballots mailed out to every voter, and returned w/o anyone knowing whether they were filled out by actual individual registered voters, or bundled, or "harvested", are a better answer as to why those motivations are so mysterious to you/us.
Texas and Florida, where such chicanery is not allowed, tell us what "really" happened.
We live in the "United Banana Republics" now. Every blue state is a hive of scum and villainy.
As for EVs....any reports of how they fare in the northern states during the winter?
My "theory" -- like others, it's just a collection of notions that hang together -- is that leftists'/progressives' Musk Disorder Syndrome (if it exists), like Trump Disorder Syndrome, comes about because they invented (or feel they invented) these two as political figures.
Democrat party strategists took Trump's entry into the 2016 presidential race as a godsend for them. His TV image seemed perfect for them: the prototypical Mean Boss and Capitalist Swashbuckler; they had been seeking a way to make Hilary's faults disappear to swing voters, and Trump seemed made-to-order for them. They didn't reckon on him being smart, and a straight-shooter. (Neither did I at first; until late in the nomination campaign, I was concerned about how the fake outrage over Trump -- from Dems -- was being used to maximize press coverage of him, and help him dominate the contest.)
Progressives have been building up Musk's reputation for years, superficially because of electric cars and a vague environmentalism; but more deeply for the reason they build up all the new tech billionaires: strengthening their baronial power serves to weaken nation-states -- and that weakness is a necessary precondition for installing the World Government our wishfully World-Mastering progressives aim for.
Both Trump and Musk have healthy egos; they know they are in large part authors of their own success. They don't feel beholden to progressives or any other political masterminds; they have no qualms about pulling their own way in public life; and the instinct for liberty -- the great American instinct -- is not a dead letter to them. All of which stings like betrayal to the progressives.
“Funny, the only Tesla owner I know is a right wing Republican”
Me too. He has two of them. Not because of any ideological bent, but because he’s a very wealthy gadget geek.
The Democrats allowing themselves to be backed into an avowedly anti-free speech corner is eventually going to bite them in the ass in a big way.
Here's the American Lung Association on asthma and other impacts of living close to a highway. There's plenty more if you Google.
I didn't say gas cars blow up spontaneously. I said in accidents.
I'm not forcing anyone to buy an EV, just pointing out the many problems with gas cars that we just are used to, in response to your list for electric cars.
You have to replace the breaks much less often in EVs because of regenerative breaking, which uses the electric motors not the breakpads. Tires, probably more due the weight and the flat out joy of acceleration. Speaking of which, the low center of gravity makes them a ton of fun to corner in, and drive in general.
"They accelerate with energy efficiency proportional to load." Uh, yes physics is a thing.
"I have driven 50K miles and replaced two front tires and 4 brakes." Plus 15 oil changes. And the costs go up the next 50k.
Don't see anyone arguing about $200-400 per month in gas costs.
As the grid gets greener (which it is every day), EVs get greener.
Saying no EVs because the grid can't handle 100% EVs is silly. There's plenty of load for EVs especially charging in the late night/early morning. California asked people not to charge at peak times for couple days in the middle of a heat wave. And it will take decades if we even ever get to 100% EVs.
These things are amazing tech. On their own and compared to gas cars.
The mania within the overclass to promote EVs illustrates the flaws of top-down economic central planning. EVs are nifty, albeit somewhat expensive, solutions for those in moderate or warm climates who use an auto for short and medium length trips. EVs are poor solutions in cold climates and for users who need extended range. EVs do not produce less pollution. They simply change the type of pollution, and the location of the pollution. They are not panaceas. They will only address global warming if we change over to nuclear power plants, and that involves nuclear waste management tradeoffs.
The ideal way to get the right mix between ICE cars and EV cars is to allow individual consumers to make well informed decisions. Why is this so difficult for those in power to see?
"I'm not forcing anyone to buy an EV"
Your fellow travelers are.
"And it will take decades if we even ever get to 100% EVs."
States are banning them by 2035. THAT'S the problem.
Mason G queried: Tires and brake pads? Don't EVs have tires and brakes, too?
No they do not. EV suspension systems cause the cars to float slightly above ground level and therefore tire wear is minimal. Anti-collision software, in concert with an interactive heads up display, enables the engine to reduce RPM and thus virtually no brake wear either. Voilà, no maintenance costs.
I have driven 50K miles and replaced two front tires and 4 brakes.
That's impressive, but for all the WRONG reasons!
Very few cars left on highways that spew particulate matter, which is the pollution most usually cited for aggravating asthma. Highways stir up dust, pollen, rubber and other types of particulates. That’s why studies about asthma near highways find correlation not because of modern efficient ICE through catalytic converters.
"The ideal way to get the right mix between ICE cars and EV cars is to allow individual consumers to make well informed decisions. Why is this so difficult for those in power to see?"
Don't you understand? They're smarted than you.
"The ideal way to get the right mix between ICE cars and EV cars is to allow individual consumers to make well informed decisions. Why is this so difficult for those in power to see?"
Because it's not about global warming or getting the right mix. They're already in the process of banning ICE vehicles. The next shoe to drop will be prohibiting the ownership of EVs (well, for you, anyway) because there just isn't enough electricity to power them all.
It's about control- of where you live, where you go, and when.
Daniel12 asserted: "I'm not forcing anyone to buy an EV ... "
Funny, your friend Gov Ozzie Newsome (D-No Electric Power) is doing just that.
Why is this so difficult for those in power to see?
Money?
Googled VW Passat FWD and #3 hit is "Brakes". If it is FWD and eats tires and brakes you may have alignment problems . Hit a pothole, curb pay the Piper.
Air has NEVER been cleaner. Period. Water has NEVER been cleaner. Period. Since 1868 Cuyahoga river has caught fire thirteen times.
https://history.com/news/epa-earth-day-cleveland-cuyahoga-river-fire-clean-water-act
Electric utilities are regulated by the states. they get cost plus a guaranteed profit. They don't care if they burn coal, or burn atoms, or gas. They do what they are told. Did I say they don't care?
Big car companies don't care either. They will give the government what it wants, Obama gave them to the unions. They do what they are told. Did I say they don't care?
California can ban ice cars and be proud. It does not matter. If there are not enough ev's for the voters in 20something, Cali can just say never mind. Germany banned nuclear power- opps, never mind... keep the nukes open... lets open more Lignite coal mines... they don't care.
If we could separate the discussion of EV's from the crap about climate change, we could have a better discussion of EV's.
Old motorhead here, ex racer. I absolutely love the Tesla's I've driven for their huge launch power, for their simplicity, for their reliability. If I had a spare $90k laying around, I'd be in one.
But I'd buy it knowing that I should keep at least one ICE vehicle for loads, for long trips, and for snowy freezing days. EV's are great fun, but they have a long way to go before they can replace our current cars. (And I would not take "warming" into account at all in such a decision, because it's a made-up panic.)
Musk? Very smart guy, has lefty and righty impulses, manages to PO both groups because of his personality. But we need people like him. That's how we advance.
"As the grid gets greener (which it is every day), EVs get greener."
That made me laugh.
Do you have any idea how many dead dinos it takes to,"go green"?
Yep. They still work but lose range in the cold…
BUMBLE BEE said: "Googled VW Passat FWD and #3 hit is "Brakes". If it is FWD and eats tires and brakes you may have alignment problems."
With front tires being the drive tires, it's not unusual for them to go first. I have tendency to take corners hard. My biggest problem is living on a dirt road. That causes exhaust systems to bang around (read: crack) and typically ball joint/ tie rod end issues. None of that so far with the Passat. I love the car.
madASHell responded: "That's impressive, but for all the WRONG reasons!"
Do tell!
that involves nuclear waste management tradeoffs
Minimized through select fuel cycles. The common fuel cycles are used to produce weapons grade material, perhaps a holdover from "colder" days.
Nuclear Fuel Cycle and Proliferation
Nuclear Energy FAQs
Because it's not about global warming or getting the right mix.
It's about leverage. They did the same with CFLs. The same with Freon's successor. The same with allegation of radiation exposure, acid rain, toxic waste, etc. Processes and products evaluated in isolation, with models, with ulterior motives and progressive divergence from reality (e.g. hexavalent chromium carcinogenic effectiveness in the wild is no greater than a "clean" environment, so-called Greenhouse effect). They do the same with social experiments, not limited to diversity, political congruence, sexual dysfunction, and reproductive rites.
Got to drive my brother's Tesla last two weeks. There is just nothing like it. You enter in your destination, and - once you're on the freeway - it takes you there. Lane changes, switching freeways, everything till the last freeway offramp when the autopilot passes control back to you.
I have always hated changing lanes on freeways; that blind spot... This just does it for you.
That's this year. Next year, or the year after, it will drive the whole way.
And as I've said before, you just plug it in at night, at home. In two weeks I never had to worry about charging ever.
“The “handle” on the “hockey stick” was trending down and had it not been for the “blade” we would be experiencing Little Ice Age style crop failures.”
As pretty much everyone, excluding Michael Mann, of course, knows - the Hockey Stick was bogus from Day 1. It appears to be partially a result of switching from reconstructed (I.e. faked) older climate data, conveniently spliced onto real climate data (most of which appears to have been jury rigged), as well as tree ring counters being dufuses when it comes to statistics. The big question is when and if Mann ever figured out that his work there was completely bogus. Or did he know early on, and is stubbornly maintains that his Hockey Stick is actually legitimate.
It’s a mark of the failure of Democrats and their enablers that the issue of purchasing an EV is framed in political terms. If you want to buy an EV to make a political statement and do virtue signaling (and you can afford it), be my guest. Conservatives are more hard-headed about weighing pros and cons of a potential big ticket purchase, and political considerations count for zilch.
Markets decide whether EV vehicales are viable or not. Not politics. Markets decided that socialism in all it's colors wasn't viable.
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