I'm reading "Parents slam school’s ‘sick’ Satan Club for children as young as 5: ‘Disgusting’" (NY Post).
I got there via Sarah Hoyt at Instapundit:
WHOSE CHILDREN DO THOSE PARENTS THINK THOSE KIDS ARE? Parents slam school’s ‘sick’ Satan Club for children as young as 5: ‘Disgusting’.
Sorry, but this is exactly what was bargained for when by anyone who supported the after-school Christian club, approved of by the Supreme Court back in 2001.
Either you have a special rule excluding religion or you don't. In Good News Club, a Christian after-school club had been excluded and the Supreme Court saw that as discrimination against religion. Once you get that far, you can't have viewpoint discrimination. Viewpoint discrimination is worse than discrimination against religion in general. So there now you can't exclude the Satanist club.
I used to teach a Religion & the Constitution course, and I was teaching it when the Good News Club case came out. The first hypothetical that springs to mind is an After School Satan Club. Legal decisions have consequences, and sometimes they are perfectly obvious.
You think that's disgusting? Some people think all after-school religion clubs are disgusting, but they lost in the Supreme Court in 2001. And some people think government viewpoint discrimination is disgusting? Get your values in order and try to be consistent.
The Satan image is very well conceived to appeal to little kids who've been primed by children's books and cartoons. Don't you want to know what the li'l devil has to say?
Well, let's read the official web page for the group. Excerpt:
Proselytization is not our goal, and we’re not interested in converting children to Satanism. After School Satan Clubs will focus on free inquiry and rationalism, the scientific basis for which we know what we know about the world around us.
We prefer to give children an appreciation of the natural wonders surrounding them, not a fear of everlasting other-worldly horrors.
Well, hell!
More, from the handbook:
To call our club any alternative such as “science club” or “atheist club”, which has been suggested by many, would be disingenuous and akin to hiding.
Satan, to us, is not a supernatural being. Instead, Satan is a literary figure that represents a metaphorical construct of rejecting tyranny over the human mind and spirit.
I know what you're thinking — That's just what the real Satan would say. He's such a clever deceiver.
But I say: If your Satan is so clever, how do you know he's not behind the Good News Club?
BONUS: My last point is reinforced by the #2 TV Devil on this list — Ned Flanders ("It's always the one you least expect"):
Posts
164 comments:
It's merely another flavor of Richard Dawkins' Pastafarian "Flying Spaghetti Monster."
https://www.spaghettimonster.org/2006/10/richard-dawkins/
I actually think this is a better state of affairs than the completely naïve Woke belief system. The Satanists and Pastafarians are often mostly scientific, and sarcastic atheists tweaking Christian fundamentalists. In contrast, the Woke recreated a brutal form of totalitarianism from untrained childlike instincts and bigotry alone.
I blame Rosemary's Baby...who would be in the grandparent cohort now.
"After School Satan Clubs will focus on free inquiry and rationalism, the scientific basis for which we know what we know about the world around us."
Science! I'm all for it.
But don't these kids have something better to do? Like make Tik Tok videos?
Serious question: the Satan club is explicitly non religious. Does the Good News ruling even apply? Isn’t the primary objection to the name, not the message?
Second question: is atheism a religion?
Is this the school allowing an outside group to use the premise? Or Content, programing, and staff all under control of the school?
For k-5 this sounds like after school care with a theme. Parents are the ones responsible for investigating the program content and making a decision. As far as I know, Boy Scounts were never allowed to use school grounds/buildings. Scouting is faith based, and the program is easily researched and transparent.
Satan looks like the picture Amber Heard tried to paint of Johnny Depp.
The school system is not a surrogate for parenthood.
"The thief (satan) comes to steal and kill and destroy". (John 10)
AA queried: "But I say: If your Satan is so clever, how do you know he's not behind the Good News Club?"
Matthew 7 responds: "By their fruit you will recognize them ..."
After School Satan Clubs will focus on free inquiry and rationalism
They need an afterschool club for that now because they can't teach that stuff during regular class time anymore.
Do people also have the right to protest what they don’t like, regardless of the ‘grounds’ of the dislike?
Any perceived hypocrisy is irrelevant.
St. Ignatius Loyola, founder of the Jesuits, was a big believer in Satan and incorporated Satan into his "Two Standards" mediation in the Spiritual Exercises.
You are on a field of battle. There are two Standards. Which Standard will you join? What side will you fight on? There's more to it that this, but I can't recall. Ignatius was a very binary guy; black and white.
One would think a clear definition of Satanism would enlighten inquiring minds of the darkness of claiming a lie for Truth.
https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/satanic-occult-ritualistic-violence-america-faces-violence-america
Proselytization is not our goal, and we’re not interested in converting children to Satanism. We're just trolling the Christians.
Ann, I think you're drawing the wrong lesson from the article. The quoted parent says, "I think it's disgusting, but I understand the school has to allow it because they allow the Good News Club." She understands tolerance and free speech perfectly, and she's not asking for a special rule.
I’m imagining Nazi parents disrupting the club’s invited speaker Salman Rushdie with one sign reading a slightly revised Bible verse.
“It is better for you to enter life with no eyes at all than to have one eye and be thrown into the fire of hell.”
And then in bigger bold letters below- GET HIM!
False religion!
Paul Hicks, a critical-thinking professor who will be running the club, seconded the sentiment. “I’m not teaching these kids to be Satanic, I’m not teaching these kids that they need to hail Satan or identify as Satanists,” he declared.
If it's not actually a religious club then you're not discriminating against a religion by forbidding the club.
Federal courts should rule against intentionally false and dishonest claims. You could argue its a parody of religion -- which is what it is, I think -- but that would be a free speech claim, not a free exercise claim.
Consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.
As far as I know, Boy Scounts were never allowed to use school grounds/buildings.
We used a school for Scout meetings and events when I was young...back when mastodons roamed the earth, tooting loudly fore and aft.
I can't come up with a better argument, Ann.
I guess I should have taken your class.
The problem with what most people think of Satan - they think evil deranged force... with perhaps some cruelty mixed in - like hurting animals or sacrificing live things...
The satan clue here sounds more like an 'appreciate nature club.' Which - btw - could just as easily be a part of a Christian club.
False advertising to make a point. point made.
"...not a fear of everlasting other-worldly horrors."
Well, that rules out talking about global warming it would seem.
As a Christian, I have no problem with Satanist club in school, assuming its voluntary. Who is going to join it? I'm thinking people that are already atheists. Gives the Christians a better idea of who needs to be proselytized. Makes me think about what my church's pastors' son did when he started college. He looked around in the dining hall and invited anybody who was eating alone to eat with him.
Should have named it the Lucifer or Prometheus Club. (But in Amurca, who the hell has heard of either gentleman?)
As for atheism being a religion: Atheism is a religion the same way not collecting stamps is a hobby.
Google fails to turn up whoever it was that claimed the US was "the great satin," a slight failure of terrorism.
If your Satan is so clever, how do you know he's not behind the Good News Club?
Heck, I don't even know he's not behind the Good Sam Club. Or the Catholic Church.
A wily deceiver can surface anywhere, even in the mirror. The key is to know him when you see him, while not seeing something that isn't really there. There is an opportunity for both believers and non to see outside that box you put your God into. I think Spinoza had it right, but what do I know? His box had everything in it, which is my biggest clue.
Sooner or later, we'll all know more.
Leftists, substituting anti-discrimination for understanding good v evil for 200 years!!!
And murdering hundreds of millions to boot. Morality is not a hard concept for anyone but the left, and, of course, our amoral hostess.
What we need is another one of those Supreme Court "balancing tests."
I propose...
"Well I hope we're not too messianic
Or a trifle too satanic"
The parents need to social Justice them out of existence. And remove any school administrators that they do not like. There is no longer any point in worrying about being hypocritical, that is the norm now.
Far be it from me to abuse ritual satanism in pre-schools. But let the faculty advisors beware. I seem to recall some other legal precedents from the 80s they might want to take note of.
The major religions seem to focus on eradicating "sin" by means of enforced sexual repression. So this Satan stuff is perfect for rebellious high school students. But I don't think it's a good idea for children. Maybe the little ones can do pagan stuff instead? The old legends and magic traditions are kind of fun and harmless -- Druid festivals, the feast of Diana, etc.
'As a Christian, I have no problem with Satanist club in school, assuming its voluntary.'
Pretty much the same...but I have bigger issues with public schools.
Schools are already lefty indoctrination camps and junior trans clinics.
Get your kids out of public schools if you can.
The private ones aren't perfect, but you have more leverage when you're writing a direct check...
Atheism is a faith (i.e. logical domain), specifically trust.
Pro-Choice is a religion, specifically ethical or relativistic.
The private ones aren't perfect, but you have more leverage when you're writing a direct check...
A democratic, capitalist hybrid to mitigate the progress of others who run amuck.
As a Christian I would view members of the Satan club as a target rich environment.
Interesting that the government schools will fervently suppress true Nazis cult but willingly promotes the actual Nazi religion of Satan Worship. Oh yeah, it’s all about power.
Maybe it was called the Satan Club to get it protected under the free practice of religion.
Calling it the "Ever-tentative and other Crap/Pop Science Club" won't garner such protections.
"Either you have a special rule excluding religion or you don't."
But not having a special rule excluding religion does not entail having to treat "satanism" as a religion.
So I’m taking this seriously,
Does the ruling that compels the school to allow the satan club also require the school administrators and teachers to be non biased in the way the club is marketed?
Don't put extra spaces in your comments -- extra paragraph breaks.
I had to delete the comment that did that.
Try again without the spaces.
As for atheism being a religion: Atheism is a religion the same way not collecting stamps is a hobby.
Sure. But when you start insulting stamp collectors and start talking about outlawing stamp collecting it sure starts to look like e religion....
Christianity is a good conduit for teaching morality - but it isn't the only way.
I agree with you - I say both clubs are acceptable. But parents should know what their kids are doing and be able to block them from choosing either one. (And I thought this when it was only the Good News club.) I know athiest parents who allow their kids to go to, for example, Vacation Bible School, and those who are fearful. Same with Christian parents worried about, say, a Buddhist gathering.
However, when you start pointing out the satanist club's teachings, it seems to mesh more with the current regime than the worship of Beelzebub. This raises Establishment problems for the current regime.
In the long run, I think the best way to proceed will be vouchers for all.
Of course schools have viewpoint discrimination.
Let's be serious here. Someone is deliberately trying to be annoying just because they can.
I'm OK with that. I take their point entirely. This is the type of thing you have to be willing to put up with in order to have a free society. I'm willing to pay this cost. We're not suddenly going to see a wave of devil worshipping sweep across America, some smart-ass kids and a very brave teacher are laughing their heads off.
It also sends a message of toleration and consideration; one we need to hear more loudly and more often.
I spend an extraordinary amount of time in my classroom hammering on two themes repeatedly, doggedly. First don't trust the internet. Don't trust the media. Hell don't trust me (and I mean that). The second is, toleration. You can disagree with someone without hating them. I have a liberal friend across the hall. We argue about everything, often in front of the kids. They're amazed we're still friends. That's where we need to begin.
I’m with Althouse but expect this club to face less opposition than the many Christian clubs did, which was pervasive and subtle when not blatantly demonstrated. I believe in the first amendment wholly. I’ll be looking to see how this goes beyond this one news cycle. Especially to see if they really push that rational scientific thing they’re pushing in the excerpt because that whole “think for yourself” approach is totally in conflict with the transmanians, the woke and the Left in general.
"Second question: is atheism a religion?"
No. The question is spurious.
"It was created by the nontheistic religious organization the Satanic Temple-..."
Does this organization actually exist in the elementary school? Is the teacher running it- Paul Hicks a critical-thinking professor- a teacher at this elementary school? Teaching 'critical thinking' at an elementary school? When does that take place? Right after Drag Queen Story Hour? Or is this professor coming in after school as a recruit to disrupt the ongoing problem of teaching Christianity or other traditional religions after school?
What the hell. It is not a praising of Satan. It is a push-back against the religion clubs that have, according to the article, invaded the schools. Well...there are some invasions to be supported (open borders) and some that just cannot be (teaching morals and kindness).
Anyway, the parents won't win this battle in any way other than to make sure their kids know the difference between good and evil, right and wrong, so if they want to attend an after school religion club, they choose one that has actual standards, not one that tries to muddy standards up.
Just speaking as someone who would just assume cold-cock a 'professor' for overseeing an after school Satan Club in an elementary school as talk to him. Even if he claims to be teaching benevolence. But then, I've run out of patience for all of the insanity that passes from our 'leading thinkers' lips and into our laps these days.
I think this was one of the best posts I've seen. I saw the headlines on this over the last few days and based on the headlines, was horrified. This post and the comments dug deeper and gave a more mature perspective. I appreciates Prof A comment about this being what happens when you allow any religious group in the school. I also like the comments that the group self identifies as a easy target for proselytization by the existing religious groups.
Like many cultural headlines on the cultural left (like the famous "Don't Say Gay" headlines), this seems like much ado about nothing.
Thanks to all......
Of course schools have viewpoint discrimination.
If they do, they don't want it, and are desperately trying to find someone to take it away from them. The number one job of administration is to ensure that nobody (except the teacher) is responsible or accountable for anything, ever.
I support it as a great way to identify lefty indoctrination at a young age. We can watch then as they grow up, claim people on the right are evil, while they celebrate the mythical embodiment of evil by its Christian name. It is nearly as perfect as school supported drag shows for self-identifying pedophile teachers. Don't limit their speech, use it against them.
To call our club any alternative such as “science club” or “atheist club”, which has been suggested by many, would be disingenuous and akin to hiding.
I actually like this club.
For once the Atheists are being honest about their religious affiliations.
Atheism and No-God Creationism and other secular religions are being taught in public schools while other religions like Christianity are not allowed to be taught.
These are philosophical discussions we should all be having. But not with 5 year olds.
We need to abolish the public schools and let parents decide who they support and are affiliated with.
"As far as I know, Boy Scounts were never allowed to use school grounds/buildings. Scouting is faith based, and the program is easily researched and transparent."
I was a Cub Scout--never went on to the Boy Scouts--and I don't recall there ever being any talk of religious faith. Is it only the Boy Scouts that you say are faith based?
Every club sponsored by a school should have a stated mission and an agenda. It should be made public, and every student under 18 should need parental permission to join. If a club strays from its mission, then the school and/or parents should be able to challenge the existence of the club. This should be required of all extracurricular activities. Clubs like this one, SADD, the Gay/Straight Alliance, even the Future Farmers of America. Any group that can write a mission statement, plan an agenda, find a faculty adviser, and get parents to give their children permission to join should be allowed to exist unless its planned activities are against the law. Faculty advisers should be held accountable for limiting membership and attendance to only those students with parental permission to be there. I taught in a high school where those were the rules, and most clubs that would have been controversial fizzled before they ever got off the ground.
Robert Cook said...
"Second question: is atheism a religion?"
No. The question is spurious.
Robert Cook cannot defend No-God Creationism.
He has all of the answers. He has faith that life sprang up from nothing.
And that faith is so unshakeable that it is considered scientific truth.
Any questioning of Cook's faith is spurious.
Shut up heretic.
I was a Cub Scout--never went on to the Boy Scouts--and I don't recall there ever being any talk of religious faith. Is it only the Boy Scouts that you say are faith based?
The Boy Scout Oath:
On my honor I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country
And to obey the Scout Law.
To help other people at all times,
To keep myself physically strong,
Mentally awake and morally straight.
Part of the Scout Law:
REVERENT
A Scout is reverent toward God. He is faithful
in his religious duties. He respects the
beliefs of others.
Lots of packs and troops used to be founded by churches to enrich the lives of their children. The ones I attended were organized by USAF parents on military bases, so the religious message was much more muted, but still there. There was an interesting thing about my experience.
The packs and troops were mostly segregated into enlisted and officer's kids, with everything that implies.
At my last troop, it was incredible. The officer's kids had parents out the ass at every meeting, the latest gear etc. My troop was lead by an 18 year old airman, and not very well. We spent much of most meeting throwing rocks at milk bottles. At summer camp we were the hooligans. Not long after summer camp they actually flew over and took our flags and shut down our troop and kicked us all out of the scouts.
So the Satan Club doesn't believe in Satan as a real thing. How could they? Satan acknowledged the reality and greatness of God. The club sounds like another insulting goof by the atheists. It reflects an overweening pride in their members' intellect. Wasn't overweening pride in himself the cause of Satan's downfall?
Once upon a time, atheists were treated as heretics and risked death. For some reason, there were fewer atheists in those days. It's easy to be an atheist when Pascal's wager has been inverted. These days, atheists can comfort themselves with the thought that, if they make the wrong bet, an all-knowing, infinitely loving deity will forgive them. Pascal took for granted that eternal damnation awaited the atheists, were they mistaken. That dynamic means that the only God likely to survive the next century will be one nasty vengeful being. Divinity schools are going to look very different.
What is evil is using young children as fodder for your culture war. As far as I know Satan as a concept exists only within the Judeo/Christian context. Thus he is specifically a representation of evil as defined by a rebellion against God. To say he is just an icon for free inquiry and science is to be disingenuous. It is pretty much what Christians would define a work of Satan to be: To deceive in the guise of offering something that looks inviting, giving the promise that one would be as god, with all knowledge. The story is as old, as old as, well Adam and Eve.
"Sure. But when you start insulting stamp collectors and start talking about outlawing stamp collecting it sure starts to look like e religion...."
Who is trying to outlaw this, uh, "Stamp collectors club?" And, seeking to outlaw the stamp collectors from practicing their "religion" does not require or indicate that those seeking to outlaw the club must be members of a contrary religion.
Calling it the Satan Club gives it a cheeky spirit of fun. Most Satanists I'm aware of (which is none in my personal life, but you get exposed in places...) think of it like this club does. They favor rationalism over received wisdom. They don't do any of the things or believe in any of the things a good Christian thinks of when they think of Satanism.
Nights in white Satan
Never reaching the end
Letters I've written
Never meaning to send
Beauty I'd always missed
With these eyes before
Just what the truth is
I can't say anymore
The First Rule of Satan Club is We don't talk about Satan Club.
Well, as long as they are promoting science and rationalism by using an emotionalized club name it should be okay.
In reality, if it is a satanism club, then they would likely be teaching the kids to disrupt classes, cause mayhem, etc. In which case, the school would have an interest and the constitutional right to deny the club being associated with the school. But if they aren't disrupting the learning process, well, the solution is open discussion and debate.
"Teaching 'critical thinking' at an elementary school? When does that take place?"
Unfortunately, rarely or never...even in the higher grades.
So pretty much all the Christians here are saying "stupid but constitutional."
As it should be.
Liberals are constantly projecting their own insane, vile bigotry and prejudice on normal people.
"Any questioning of Cook's faith is spurious."
The question was spurious because it was insincere, not meant in good faith. The rest of your comments do not warrant attention.
The Jacobins, Bolsheviks, and Maoists did a bang up job warning children of the dangerous superstitions of organized religion and of the need to believe only those things that are consistent with science and rationality. Their societies went on to achieve a level of peace and prosperity that were the envy of their neighbors and many children sprouted gossamer wings and floated above the clouds......One of Napoleon's stated aims in taking over Spain was to eliminate the Spanish Inquisition. What could be worse than the Spanish Inquisition? Ha! Try occupation by Napoleon's army. The tortures that the partisans and the French Army inflicted on each other were a quantum jump ahead of anything the Inquisition offered. It was widespread and horrible and all to support the rational aims of the French Revolution.
Someone could test the bounds of this pretense that they can or will operate without viewpoint discrimination.
The Selfish Asshole Club
This School Blows Club
How Qualified Are These Teachers Really Club
The Fuck You Club
Intolerance Club
KKKlub
Mr. [Hated Teacher Name Here] Is a Dick Club
Snake Handlers of Faith Club
Santeria After School Sacrifices Club
Proud Boys
"Who says it's not my religion, man?"
The Serpent is always present. It's called the reptilian brain....Not so much my reptilian brain. Your reptilian brain. That's the fount of all evil and must be eliminated. The Maoists made great strides in this area, but much work remains to be done. Perhaps it will be left to Randi Weingarten to improve and perhaps perfect Mao's early efforts.
You think that's disgusting? Some people think all after-school religion clubs are disgusting, but they lost in the Supreme Court in 2001. And some people think government viewpoint discrimination is disgusting? Get your values in order and try to be consistent.
The government viewpoint discriminates. That is it's essential function.
The government is the social contract that people in a society live by and collectively form. We all decide that some things need to be done collectively.
The more things the government does the more things we do collectively. Once we start doing things collectively through government there is instant conflict because the majority is going to decide which viewpoint is dominant.
It is time to stop doing education collectively through our current public education system.
We can fund it collectively because the vast majority of people in this country value education. We need to stop telling parents what kind of education to value though.
Robert Cook said...
"Any questioning of Cook's faith is spurious."
The question was spurious because it was insincere, not meant in good faith. The rest of your comments do not warrant attention.
Exactly.
Only heretics question Cook's faith.
"...is this professor coming in after school as a recruit to disrupt the ongoing problem of teaching Christianity or other traditional religions after school?"
What ongoing problem is that?
Satan, to us, is not a supernatural being. Instead, Satan is a literary figure that represents a metaphorical construct of rejecting tyranny over the human mind and spirit.
Would be interesting to hear how someone explains that to a 6 year old.
The parents are complaining, as is their right. So far they aren't taking any action. I suppose that yes, in hindsight it would have been better if the kids (or the parents) had taken the initiative and founded a club off school grounds (or founded a school of their own).
Agnosticism is not a religion. Dogmatic atheism does qualify as a religious belief. Dogmatic agnosticism though, has me scratching my head. Does it exist? If it does, it probably qualifies as a religious belief.
Wasn't the Boy Scout controversy about not having gay scoutmasters or something like that?
Satan is in theological and literary legend a deposed angel.
These fools claiming to be atheists ought to find a new mascot. I guess Madelyn Murray OHair just doesn’t get enough clicks.
That being said, putting Satan up front makes them a religion, so the Supreme Court is choosing to let the Constitution be the guide here. Refreshing, in a way.
"Of course schools have viewpoint discrimination."
I recommend reading the Good News Club case. It was considered unconstitutional viewpoint discrimination to exclude the religion-based club where there were other after school clubs. Government had created a "limited public forum" for private citizens, so it was not the govt doing the speaking and deciding what to say, but the govt discriminating against private citizens' speech.
If you have an after school club centered around a common interest, you have to allow a club centered around the antithesis of that interest. Gay Haters Club. Racist Club. Environmental Destruction Club. The school then has no ability to stop those either.
Society will eventually become so nihilistic that people will form these clubs just to tweak other people. I can see people forming antithesis clubs just because they don't like a group with common interests and to prove some stupid point about intellectual consistency.
I'll write the description to the Gay Haters Club:
"We don't hate anyone. All people are welcome to Gay Haters. We want to explore the emotional and physical destruction the gay lifestyle does to people. We will explore the cultural and legal corrosion the gay lifestyle has had on society. We will hear from former homosexuals who became straight. We will look into new therapy methods that have the potential of turning gay people into straight people."
My neighbor told me that another neighbor is a Satanist.
He gave her a book that he wrote and she read it and said it was really strange.
His house is FILLED with clutter.. and as a passer-by, you cannot help but notice....
Strange lighting... Objects and crap everywhere. Nothing that screams "hi I'm a satanist" - just lots of strange stuff and lots of it.
When his garage door is open, that too is crammed - floor to ceiling. So much stuff he cannot park in his own garage. I'd say this guy has a hoarding problem. (Nature? - He'll have none of it!)
Freeman - LOL. Indeed.
Gahrie,
Thank you for answering my question regarding the Scouts' basis in faith. When I was a kid, I saw such passages as just the kind of reflexive references to God commonplace everywhere in our society, and thus, mere noise (to me). It never occurred to that this meant the Scouts were particularly religious in intent.
My family attended Episcopal church every Sunday, including me until I went away to college. I was an usher in our church, my brothers became acolytes, and my father was a lay reader. My brothers and I attended confirmation classes and, once confirmed, took communion each Sunday. Any yet, aside from having a knee-jerk "belief" in God because I had been raised to believe, I never felt or held any genuine religious feeling. In my early 20s I realized and acknowledged to myself that I didn't really believe any of it...and I still don't, decades later.
I recently watched "The Wonder" on Netflix. SPOILERS ahead: The movie is about an Irish child in the generation just after the Famine who refuses all food. The child believes that she can live on sustenance from God. She manages to stay healthy and alive for several months. The local doctor, priest, and gentry believe that this might be some kind of miracle. They hire an English nurse to observe the child. The nurse finds out that when the mother kisses her child good night or good morning, she moves food from her mouth into the child's. That's why the child was able to live all those months. The English nurse forbids the mother to kiss or touch her child. The child starts to weaken and die.....It's got a happy ending. The English nurse burns down the home of the family and kidnaps the child. She takes the child with her to Australia where everyone one lives happily ever after......Holy shit! What a timely warning about the dangers of too much religion. I can't help thinking though that lots and lots of children starved to death in Ireland during the Famine years and perhaps their religion gave some comfort and dignity to their short, miserable lives.....I can't figure out if the movie and its ending was in some way Brechtian, but maybe not.
"Satan is a literary figure that represents a metaphorical construct of rejecting tyranny over the human mind and spirit."
Oh, bullbleep.
“I actually think this is a better state of affairs than the completely naïve Woke belief system.”
Next up to stir fear into rightists, The Church of the Woke after school club, wait for it, it’s coming. A club that will churn out little leftist wokesters!
I think the one salient point here has been put forth before me by better minds than mine. Since the people behind the ASSC explicitly deny any religious intention at all, how is their situation parallel to Good News? IOW, how you define "viewpoint discrimination" depends itself on context. Are the "Satanists" here -- who claim no desire to "convert" anyone to their or any other faith -- really in the same category as the Good News people, who explicitly want converts?
If I were arguing this case (which God forbid, even if my lack of legal credentials already didn't), I would start by asking whether avowedly secular clubs ought to be treated on the same terms as avowedly sectarian ones. In which case everything from the model rocket club to soccer to competitive math drills ought to be in the same large bag. The Satanists here are in the position of these other folks, not of the Good News folks, b/c they say, repeatedly, that they are not a religion and don't profess to be one.
You can't name a kid's club after Satan, and then turn around and say, "Hey, we're just focusing on free inquiry and rationalism here! Back off, bigots!"
"After School Satan Clubs will focus on free inquiry and rationalism, the scientific basis for which we know what we know about the world around us.
"We prefer to give children an appreciation of the natural wonders surrounding them, not a fear of everlasting other-worldly horrors."
I don't mean to be snarky here but that sounds like my Unitarian Sunday School back in the day. There was a joke UUs were fond of: A Unitarian died and found himself at a three-way fork in the road. One sign said, "To heaven". One sign said, "To hell". The third said, "To discussion". He took the third.
Alas, they now seem to be full of certainty, for all the Progressive causes.
I don't know the make-up or politics of that local area so I don't know the likelihood of the school shutting the club down and there being a subsequent lawsuit. But if that did occur I would hope the case would work its way up to the Supreme Court and the court would reaffirm it's standard. Procedural fairness often means in any instantaneous situation you wind up with an outcome you don't prefer.
As far as the negative reactions to the club itself, I suspect you would see similar negative reactions from other groups of people if another club formed that's stated purpose was to oppose group identity politics and promote a society that focused on evaluating people as individuals and not based on their sex, race, or ethnicity, if that club's name was "The Patriarchy Club."
Will Althouse be giving thanks to Satan tomorrow?
Ralphie : [Ralphie is shoved down the slide, but he stops himself and climbs back up]
No, no! I want an Official Red Ryder Carbine-Action Two-Hundred-Shot Range Model Air Rifle!
Santa Claus : You'll shoot your eye out, kid.
This is the best example of "viewpoint discrimination" in all of highbrow literature.
Get your values in order and try to be consistent.
Sounds like we need a Hobgoblins of Small Minds after-school club
Althouse wrote: "Sorry, but this is exactly what was bargained for when by anyone who supported the after-school Christian club, approved of by the Supreme Court back in 2001....You think that's disgusting? Some people think all after-school religion clubs are disgusting"
Jesus = Satan in the minds of the Godless. That makes perfect sense and is of no surprise. Tis the season when some ode to Satan Statue is displayed under the "Science Tree" at the WI State Capital. It just warms the heart for the holiday season.
I wouldn't care if Muslim groups used public school facilities. Or Jewish Groups. Or Hindu. Or Buddhist.
Whether or not its legal, you have to be a real piece of shit asshole to lead a Satan Club for children just to make your point. Have at it. The new Godless America is steaming downhill anyway. If your eyes are open you can see Satan everywhere in 2022.
Are there drag queen strip shows going on at the Satan club? The two seem to fit together quite well.
Proud Boys?
Oh boy... did Freeman cross the line there.
Seeing so many repetitions of RMc's comment reminds me of an ancient joke:
"I was vaccinated with a phonograph needle, but it didn't affect me....affect me....affect me...affect me..."
Satan makes RMc post 6 or more identical comments.
Expecting people to be outraged by this is so Last Century.
Satan's club of #Judgments and #Labels of the rationalized irrational in liberal indulgence. Nice.
They will perform [human] rites, right? Perhaps some cannibalism with a nice Chianti, hold the Fava beans? Or is that cultural appropriation of nominally "secular" sanctuary sects?
Some sincere questions:
Is atheism morally superior to religious belief?
Is it wiser?
Which has a better track record, organized religion or organized atheism?
You can't name a kid's club after Satan, and then turn around and say, "Hey, we're just focusing on free inquiry and rationalism here! Back off, bigots!
Oh but you can. You can do anything if your Godless and worship only mother Earth and yourself. There's not moral code.
Question is how far can you take the NAME of the club to offend, and then claim it just about some soft scientific content.
I mean can you start and After School Hand Job Club, and then say "but we're just teaching these kids origami, sign language, and other skills where using your hands are required".
But, like leading a children's Satan club, you'd have to be a real prick to do that too.
Is any child compelled to join either club? No.
Do the two clubs suggest to 5-yos that both clubs are equal? Yes.
Is snark helpful to adults? Very often.
Is snark helpful to 1st-graders? Can't imagine why.
The parents who are oppossed should just file lawsuits, that seems to the way to punish people these days. Make them miserable with lawfare.
The trans/homosexual club is obviously masculinist (i.e. boys' club) or feminist (i.e. girls' club), and should be judged and labeled as sexist, but not genderist, which is a conundrum for the politically congruent ("=") who will,, once again, need to wield the double-edged scalpel to relieve the burden. Perhaps a trans/bisexual club for everyone in the transgender spectrum that will be equitable and inclusive to avoid future "Carrie" events.
Would be interesting to hear how someone explains that to a 6 year old.
If children take this further and start making human sacrifices to Satan this will blow up in their faces.
There was the "Slenderman" murder, also the boy convinced by "Dexter" that he was a born serial killer who needed to kill to release his inner tensions. What's a joke or just a story to adults can be taken deathly seriously by children.
Are they a religious group or not?
They admit they don't actually worship satan as their god, so they're not really satanists. So by choosing that name they're just being troublemakers.
They shouldn't get to admit to being a fake religion and then claim rights based on religious freedom.
As a believer of the principle of Keep It Simple Stupid (KISS), eliminate "clubs" of any kind that are sponsored or recognized by any public school.
No more ski, scouts, or sexual orientation clubs. No more Jobs Daughters, Satan, or Good News clubs. No more chess, book, or whatever you fancy clubs. And no more KKK, BLM, or political clubs. Get rid of the whole closet full of trash smoldering into conflicts of confrontational cliques.
I'm not sure these issues are best handled as matters of constitutional law. Surely school boards have some ability to say some clubs good, some clubs bad. If parents aren't happy, as Scalia used to say: run for the school board.
Blogger Inga said...
“I actually think this is a better state of affairs than the completely naïve Woke belief system.”
Next up to stir fear into rightists, The Church of the Woke after school club, wait for it, it’s coming. A club that will churn out little leftist wokesters!
The resident dullard does realize that is what many public schools have become now. It is many years since she had any contact with children
...And as I think about it, an after-school club to explore the theological and literary concepts of "Satan" seems like a potentially fascinating and enlightening excercise (although perhaps a little advanced for the younger grades).
The Bible, Dryden, Goethe, C.S.Lewis, Tolkien, Dostoevsky, J.K. Rowling, Mick Jagger...
Inga - we already have that. It's called K-12 public schools in most states.
"'Satan is a literary figure that represents a metaphorical construct of rejecting tyranny over the human mind and spirit.'
"Oh, bullbleep."
Just so. Satan, (aka Lucifer, the Light Bringer) was an angel who took issue with God, and was thus exiled from Heaven. He is the great iconoclast, the skeptic, the one who questions dogma, religious or otherwise, the one who wants to know why, rather than simply accepting (and obeying) received wisdom. He convinced Eve to eat of the Fruit of the Tree of Knowledge, such that she and Adam were cast out of the Garden of Eden. In other words, once they became enlightened with knowledge, they could no longer live in a state of blissful ignorance, aware as they had become of the realities of the world. It is a parable of the awareness that comes to humans as they grow out of the ignorance and innocence of childhood. The "fallen" world is the real world of existence and of the failings and griefs (as well as joys) of living.
In short, Satan is "evil" because he rejects doctrine and seeks to inspire others to be similarly questioning, to be inquisitive about the reality in which we exist.
My favorite after school program is the one where some leftist liar calls it "ART club" - Lures in a child who is interested in learning about ART - but it's not ART CLUB.
It's sex club. it's "Screw your parents and hate your gender whack-o Club"
Diversity [dogma] (e.g. racism, sexism, ageism), Inequity, and Exclusion (DIE) clubs are socially forward. They hold parades to celebrate the politically congruent. Also, Mengele for mandaterists, Cecile for cannibalists, and Gosnell for the socially liberated.
More and more with the passage of time and the "evolution" of the country do I find myself pleased with the knowledge that there is an extrajudicial judgement day for all.
The Church of the Woke after school club, wait for it, it’s coming. A club that will churn out little leftist wokesters!
Why have a club after school when that's pretty much the modern public school in blue cities?
It's not that being a religion gets more. Just that it doesn't get less. We're talking about freedom of *speech* here, not freedom of religion. There was an *Establishment Clause* reason to exclude religion -- to give religion *less* speech -- and that's what the Supreme Court rejected.
So nothing hinges on whether the Satan Club is religious or not. It's just an equality idea.
“The resident dullard does realize that is what many public schools have become now. It is many years since she had any contact with children.”
Michael Krabby doesn’t think far enough to realize that if the Church of the Woke club is protected by a SC ruling, as is an after school Christian club, no right wing school boards still be able to stop what is being taught or censor books in that after school Woke Club. It’s not part of the curriculum. I blame this lack of understanding on senility.
“The resident dullard does realize that is what many public schools have become now. It is many years since she had any contact with children.”
Michael Krabby doesn’t think far enough to realize that the Church of the Woke Club would be given the same protections, freedom of speech (decided by the SC) that the Christian Club has. No right wing school board would be able to dictate what books it recommends or what it discusses. It’s not part of the school’s curriculum. I blame senility and other things on this lack of understanding.
In my early 20s I realized and acknowledged to myself that I didn't really believe any of it...and I still don't, decades later.
I was raised Catholic and went to Sunday school. When it came time for my confirmation I wouldn't do it, because I had no faith. My parents weren't particularly religious, we went to church because they thought it was the right thing for the kids, so it didn't turn ugly. The irony is, with a little faith I would have made a fantastic priest.
I spent a couple of decades actively searching and finally landed on deism.
"Is atheism morally superior to religious belief?"
Not necessarily. How do you define "morally superior?"
"Is it wiser?"
Not necessarily, though it can help one come to an understanding of life and existence that is self-constructed, rather than derived from doctrine. Is one better than the other?
"Which has a better track record, organized religion or organized atheism?"
A track record of what? I don't know of any "organized atheism," as such. Are you referring to modern day dictatorships that purported to outlaw religious belief and worship, (though banishment of religious belief was never achieved)? Neither religious belief nor a lack of religious belief has much (if any) to do with how people think and behave, good or bad.
Satan Club is religious, an occult, really, of Generation-E (Emoji), with a professed faith, but is it limited in time and space to the rational domain, the near-domain?
mezzrow said...
If your Satan is so clever, how do you know he's not behind the Good News Club?
Heck, I don't even know he's not behind the Good Sam Club. Or the Catholic Church.
…
11/23/22, 8:56 AM
Kind of reminds me of the TV series ‘The Good Place’’.
I'd have something pithy to say about this, but I really can't be arsed to care, one way or another.
The various idiocies propounded by the sort of child or adult that actually participates in these things militates against being taken at all seriously. Most of the kids involved are just there 'cos some worthy adult encouraged it.
It's like "Future Business Leaders of America" or some of the other "clubs" I remember from high school. The idiots participating in those things have mostly distinguished themselves by proceeding into their promised mediocrity in adult life; the sole exception I can remember was the FBLA chapter officer (can't remember what she was...) who got herself indicted for embezzlement and other frauds about 15 years post-graduation.
These things are usually utter wastes of time, to be honest. So what if one is openly sponsored by Satan? The general uselessness and waste of time spent on them militates for his likely background involvement in all of them, including the supposedly "Christian" ones.
Hell, to be honest with you? The two most actively "Christian" types I remember from high school days? One faded into mediocrity as a drunken sot of a miserable blowsy housewife whose kids hate her, and the other became a militant atheist. Not good advertisements for mainstream Christianity, either one of them.
It's my contention that a wise religion does not seek to "inculcate" its values into the the children when they are children. You can see the results of that in all the sadly disillusioned young formerly-devout Jack Mormons, who've suffered a crisis of faith and then lost what they had. If you're wise, you leave your religious proselytization aside until someone comes to you, seeking wisdom. They don't ask the questions? Leave them the hell alone, 'cos they're likely not the types to either want or need your brand of help. Don't try to propagandize the spiritual, because that leads to men and women with brittle, easily damaged faith.
Which, in the end, do rather more damage to your cause than anything else. You do better by setting a good example, rather than preaching at people. Every single time I've ever dealt with anyone, in any capacity, who made an outward show of "faith" like having that little fish symbol scattered about their place of business? I've been cheated. Usually badly. Meanwhile, the guys and girls whose faith I never knew about until it was accidentally brought out? They've been the ones I would do business with, again. Demonstrative religiousity just raises my suspicions about actual motives and morals; you demonstrate quiet professionalism, I'll take you seriously. Try to evoke the image of the "Godly"? I'm gonna be over here, watching and waiting to see how much you actually do which is Godly. Experience has taught me that I'll likely be waiting one hell of a long time.
What happens when the number of apres state sponsored indoctrination clubs run out of spaces to club in?
As far as I know, Boy Scounts were never allowed to use school grounds/buildings.
Our scout troop was allowed to use a public school for meetings. (Tacoma, WA ... mid '70s)
My Scouting exposure began and ended at Methodist churches. I was never a Cub but I tagged along with my father (asst sctmstr) and older brother (eventual Eagle/G&C Scout) and had one year as a Tenderfoot. Religion was part of the deal.
I took my leave of Scouting before I left church and religion behind, and for mostly the same reasons: I didn't care for the people or the activities.
FWIW I was a member of no afterschool or extracurricular clubs in my public education, and AFAIR neither was my son, likewise.
Some people just don't join.
"Sorry, but this is exactly what was bargained for when by anyone who supported the after-school Christian club, approved of by the Supreme Court back in 2001."
No it is not. This is exactly what a runaway Supreme Court decreed, when it determined that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;" means "All superstitions are created equal".
"So nothing hinges on whether the Satan Club is religious or not. It's just an equality idea."
What are you suggesting? That if the Hells Angels want to open an after-school club, the taxpayers of the school district are obliged to facilitate that effort?
My own view is the sooner the better. The public schools and the people who run them are disgusting and monstrous, and the sooner that is universally apparent, the sooner we can close the wretched things down. I have hated them since the day I was first forced to attend one.
Michael Krabby doesn’t think far enough to realize that if the Church of the Woke club is protected by a SC ruling, as is an after school Christian club, no right wing school boards still be able to stop what is being taught or censor books in that after school Woke Club. It’s not part of the curriculum.
As has been explained to you - but you're too thick to understand - there's no need for an after-school Woke club when that's what being taught in the classrooms during school hours.
Michael Krabby doesn’t think far enough to realize that if the Church of the Woke club is protected by a SC ruling, as is an after school Christian club, no right wing school boards still be able to stop what is being taught or censor books in that after school Woke Club. It’s not part of the curriculum. I blame this lack of understanding on senility.
The resident dullard missed the entire point of the comment, as usual. There is no need for an after school club to teach the Woke nonsense. It is deep in the curriculum.
I wouldn't mention senility if I were you.
If this were a high school club I might go, it would probably attract the right kind of girl.
For 6 year olds, who would not go unless their parents wanted them to, It would be a good thing to stay away from. Science or philosophy discussion is fine but the satan thing (and the cute logo) is creepy enough to take a pass on.
Parents who send their kids are making a political statement.
The Satan label is poking fun at Christianity.
How would a goofily cartoonized "Young Sodomites" go over?
"No it is not. This is exactly what a runaway Supreme Court decreed, when it determined that 'Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;' means "All superstitions are created equal.'"
That's exactly what the freedom of religion clause in the first amendment does mean: for purposes of permitting freedom of religious belief and practice, "All superstitions are created equal."
Althouse said:"nothing hinges on whether the Satan Club is religious or not. It's just an equality idea."
OK so why bring up the other group that is a religious club, if this has nothing to do with religion?
The issue seems to be that people object to the club name so why don't they change to a less offensive name? Would a club that had the n-word in its title be allowed to exist; If not why not? Are some sensibilities more highly rated than others? How is that equitable?
“The resident dullard missed the entire point of the comment, as usual. There is no need for an after school club to teach the Woke nonsense. It is deep in the curriculum.”
The senile Michael Krabby missed MY entire point. Right wing school boards would not be able to meddle with what is being discussed in the Woke Club like they are doing with their censoring of books in the library, dictating what can and cannot be discussed in class, don’t say gay nonsense, and more right wing ideologies, the whitewashing of history, etc. What is being taught (and censored) in schools in right wing districts is dictated by the right wing extremist school boards. After school clubs have the ability to circumvent this.
I blame his lack of grasping MY point to senility.
“As has been explained to you - but you're too thick to understand - there's no need for an after-school Woke club when that's what being taught in the classrooms during school hours.”
As for Jim at, he’s simply too stupid to grasp MY point. Of course rightists are going to claim that public schools are all teaching leftist curriculums. Of course they are living under a rock…or something. School boards with a right wing extremist agendas are dictating what is taught in schools in their districts. An after school club would circumvent this right wing agenda.
Duh, some of you are either uninformed, dumb, senile or part of right wing extremist groups yourselves. You think it’s ok to censor books that have been in the school library for decades? Well here come the after school clubs!
Suppose a school is asked to approve a club for Moloch worshipers and those curious about Moloch. The Molochites teach that a prosperous, healthy, happy and sexually fulfilled life can be had now; with no wait until an after-life. The condition of such fulfillment is only the sacrifice of your children, into a fiery furnace. The priests of Moloch have in the past centuries moderated the condition and requirement -- some worshipers are SO squeamish. The child to be killed and burnt and offered need not be BORN, just conceived. Then aborted. Useful organs from the infant corpse may be sold to enrich the priests of Moloch. But mostly the child is burnt. And Moloch's worshipers have obtained health -- after all, the abortion was only legal if the health of the mother was perceived to be at risk. The worshiper has more wealth, and can continue to work a lucrative job unburdened by pregnancy or childcare. The worshiper has had, and can continue to enjoy a happy sex life...
Moloch is a much more reasonable diety than Satan. Or the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
It surprises me the rationalists don't invoke Molochism.
Don't mind Inga (Swetnik) she's laughing like hyena again. *giggle... burp... Hiccup...screech*
"That's exactly what the freedom of religion clause in the first amendment does mean: for purposes of permitting freedom of religious belief and practice, "All superstitions are created equal.""
Provided those superstitions qualify as "religion" within the public meaning of the term as understood at the time.
Of course, I think the key point of 1A is "Congress shall make no law." Which has been ignored or mangled.
But as Althouse has explained, the key point of precedent on this issue is to avoid treating religion unequally.
It's like arguing with a freakin' brick.
Except the brick would be more likely to come up with an actual point ... instead of parroting the latest, hysterical left-wing bullshit it read this morning.
For the last time, there wouldn't even be these 'right-wing' school boards currently gathering steam if you leftist thugs weren't already shoving this woke bullshit down the throats of kids in the classrooms.
And did it ever occur to you how/why those scary wingnuts are getting elected to those school boards? Because they - and other parents - witnessed first-hand the last two years the hot garbage 'teachers' were spewing to their kids.
I won't speak for all, but I suspect a good majority of us would be fine with your silly after-school Woke clubs if you ripped every, last bit of it out of the current curriculum.
Get woke all you want. Want your 10-year-old to learn how to give a proper blowjob? Buy xer the book yourself. Nobody's stopping you from doing that. Think it's good and proper to have a guy's hairy ass wiggling in front of your eight-year-old daughter as she's trying to fold a ten spot into his g-string? Knock yourself out. Literally.
But don't force my kid to participate and don't fucking make me pay for it.
Deal?
Duh, some of you are either uninformed, dumb, senile or part of right wing extremist groups yourselves. You think it’s ok to censor books that have been in the school library for decades? Well here come the after school clubs!
Books like "To Kill a Mockingbird?" Not us censoring that. You hard core lefties are putting books that parents cannot read at school board meetings because they are pornographic.
Just another left wing idiots. You keep exposing yourself to ridicule and don't notice.
Many religious / Christians - if they can afford it, send their kids to parochial schools. Better education. The idea that "rightists" have control over public education is laughable. They do not.
If they did - what they would prefer the highest standards in Math, Science, Language, culture etc..
The left want woke BS, over-sexualized BS, baby-sitting where kids and teens are allowed to rule the classroom. Climate Catastrophic fear, and other piles of BS and non-learning.. - and dumbed-down participation trophies across the board.
"But I say: If your Satan is so clever, how do you know he's not behind the Good News Club?"
Interesting point. I sometimes wonder if the American theology of affluence is not a bit devilish.
I think your larger point is that precedent is important in these kinds of legal decisions. As I tire of reminding my progressive friends, when you decide to label something as hate speech and have that concept codified into law, be prepared for it to bite you in the ass when tastes and social standards change.
If you let kids meet to discuss their religious beliefs and have the force of law allowing that, you open the door to having all kinds of groups meet that you might not like.
You think it’s ok to censor books that have been in the school library for decades?
Who got Huck Finn and To Kill A Mockingbird kicked out of school?
Personal experience only: in the late 60s, my Scout troop met in the school library and then the multi-purpose room after it grew larger in number.
And Inga, no one is censoring books that have been around forever -- none of these books detailing and showing boys giving each other blow jobs has ever been in school before. It is age-appropriate "censorship" which I am fully in favor of.
Marcus B. THEOLDMAN
Russia Collusion Truther and Hillary/FBI Hoax Dossier Dead Ender Inga: "You think it’s ok to censor books that have been in the school library for decades?"
LOL
Name the school districts and name the books being banned.
That way we can judge your latest pro-groomer/CRT-Denying lies.
By the way, are there yet any parts of Hillary's hoax dossier you no longer believe are true? Readers will recall when Inga last scurried out from her moron hidey-hole to address the hoax dossier she was still 100% behind it. She even still believes the hoax pee tape exists!
Good times, good times.
Marcus Bressler: "And Inga, no one is censoring books that have been around forever -- none of these books detailing and showing boys giving each other blow jobs has ever been in school before. It is age-appropriate "censorship" which I am fully in favor of."
You need to remember that Inga believes fathers showering with adolescent daughters, specifically Joe Biden and his daughter, is "perfectly normal". In fact, we had Inga, gadfly and victoria from Pasadena all on these boards saying fathers showering with adolescent daughters was normal.
Thus, Inga is not exactly the clearest thinking individual you are going to come across in a given day, if you know what I mean.
Get informed, break out of the cultist mindset.
Over 1,600 Books Were Banned During the Past School Year
Banned in the USA: The Growing Movement to Censor Books in Schools
In my 8th grade I used "The Exorcist" to deliver a report on "other" religions and Sister X loved it. In my Catholic school Devil worship was just another form of Protestantism.
From Inga's link:
About 41 percent of the banned titles explicitly address LGBTQ themes, making these the biggest target of the bans. Books involving sexual content—such as stories about teen pregnancy, sexual assault and abortion—account for 22 percent of the titles. About 21 percent directly address race and racism, while 40 percent feature major characters of color.
Who needs Math, Science, Literature, Art?
It's gender, sex and 'hey kid - did you know you're guilty of racism based on the color of your skin?' & other various forms of divisive and hurtful hate mongering and race-guilt.
I wonder - is a book like "The Hate you Give" on that list?
Inga -I know this is hard for you to understand - your being a loyal leftist cultist - but Perhaps most normal parents don't want new-age sex garbage thrust on their children?
From one of the dullard's links.
"In August, some school districts in St. Louis, Missouri began to pull books from shelves in response to a law that made it a class A misdemeanor to provide visually explicit sexual material to students. These trends are unfortunately likely to continue, as the chilling effect of these legislative measures spreads."
Your links rarely correspond to your argument. Another sign of stupidity.
I think most people on both sides of the issue know that this is how it works. But the ones who didn't figure it out are going to be more fun to write about.
Christianity is a good conduit for teaching morality - but it isn't the only way.
That is not the purpose of Christianity. It's a nice side effect but the purpose of Christianity is to worship God and to enjoy him forever. It's to refashion one's own heart and reframe one's own mind and identity to be centered on Jesus Christ after meeting him and choosing to make him the central reality of one's existence.
Until it happens it sounds insane. But I do want to explain accurately what it is.
Ah, I'll be there's a HIGE difference between the sanctioned and school board approved satanist club and the dangerous unapproved after school Christian prayer group.
It likely follows the same guidelines as the after school get dressed as the oppostie sex and pretend it's possible to change your sex (not gender- biological sex) clubs. One: the school doesn't inform the parents the children are attendng nor ask for parental permission. Two: The children are instructed NOT to inform their parents they're going.
And that's where the school boards are going to be liable, the members themselves individually, and the teachers involved, are eventually going to find themselves paying out enormous damages.
Scouts USA foremerly known as BSA, and other legitimate youth organizations, have long had child safety guidelines. And now, in the particular case of Scouts USA- court approved and sanctioned child safety guidelines. That otehr groups are adopting. One of the rules- parents must be informed of their child's involvement in the group, and must give persmission in one form or another. Another, part of the training for the children AND in the parents guidebook, if an adult tells you not to tell your parents- they're up to nbno good. They are not looking out for the child's best interests.
Now, we all know that by the common ordinary definition that T. C. Mits holds, every teacher, every drag queen, every ADULT, who wants to talk to children about sex is a pervert. Period, end of discussion. If any child not my own were to come to me and ask any sexually oriented questions, I would tell them "Ask you parents." And as soon as I'm away from teh child, a phone call or email to the parent(s) outlining the quesion, and when and where it was asked.
Why mention that these guidelines exist? Well, as soon as a chiild in one of these clubs is molested by a teacher, couselor, or invited in drag queen, the question that's going to be sked is: "Why weren't you following youth group child safety guidelines?" Court approved ones, I will add. And we all know, even Inga, that molestation in these groups will happen. Satanists are also by T.C. Mits definition, perverts. And molestation will happen. Atheists simply reject the existence of God, or of any divine beings, and may or may not be otherwise good people. Satanists reject any rules established by a singular divine being. And one of those rules is- don't molest children. To totally reject God, well, follow the logic.
No child is going to be attending a meeting of a satanist club unless encouraged to do so. There isn't one in our local schools. If there was an adult forming one, I suspect he or she would soon be a missing person. Lots of farms, swamps, backhoes and shovels in our area. Accidents happen.
Freeman, you almost made me spit out my brandy eggnog.
"Name the school districts and name the books being banned."
Answer the damn question.
Not some link.
Specifics.
Don't make the rest of us do your damn homework.
Also Inga- Keeping inappropriate material out of schools - that's not "banning books" - that's - Keeping inappropriate material out of schools. Those books are not banned.
Misplaced Pants.
Please note I didn't proclaim the "purpose" of Christianity.
(I didn't even use the word "Purpose")
- I merely mentioned the positive moral "side effect"
All the Christian kids should join the club, run for leadership positions and then change the name and mission. That’s what progressives would do.
n.n said...
"Atheism is a faith (i.e. logical domain), specifically trust."
Yes. An absolute belief that the universe exists along the lines of your philosophy. Just like religion. It is also the belief in the infinite.
"Satan is a literary figure.............." Yeah. So is Jesus. Point?
Russia Collusion Cult Truther and Hillary/FBI Hoax Dossier Dead Ender Inga: "Get informed, break out of the cultist mindset."
Your link does not show what you claim, so let's try this again: Name the School Districts and the books banned there.
Even though you won't...because you can't...because you and the rest of your gender cult are liars.
As always. But only always.
Tim pool@timcast
remember when they had kids reading porn and then claimed republicans were just banning books?
they are trying to gaslight you
fuck em
they are groomers.
8:29 AM 24 Nov 22
"That is not the purpose of Christianity. It's a nice side effect but the purpose of Christianity is to worship God and to enjoy him forever. It's to refashion one's own heart and reframe one's own mind and identity to be centered on Jesus Christ after meeting him and choosing to make him the central reality of one's existence."
No, the purpose of Christianity (according to Christ) is to follow him, to live like him, to interact with others like him. It is precisely to "make one more moral," in other words, to follow his example in one's own life. It is not to worship him (or, "God"), not to become an idolator. His message is how to live a good life. (I speak as an atheist, btw.)
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