"... the next day. More than one person told me that they needed a day to collect their thoughts before they could talk. At least three cried in our interviews. They are proud, scared and conflicted about their experiences. They have different views about how politically explicit their slogans should be, but they all said that they found shouting the slogans cathartic. Miranda, who has been a journalist for eight years, said that she couldn’t stop crying when she shouted with the crowd, 'freedom of speech' and 'freedom of press.'... The slogans that they recalled chanting were all over the place, illustrating the wide frustration with their lives. 'End the lockdown!' 'Freedom of speech!' 'Give back my movies!'... When someone first chanted, 'No more Communist Party,' the crowd laughed, according to Serena, a college student who is spending her gap year in Shanghai. 'Everyone knew it was the redline,' she said... When someone yelled, 'Xi Jinping, step down!' and 'C.C.P., step down!' the shouts were the loudest...."
Writes Li Yuan, in "Proud, Scared and Conflicted. What the China Protesters Told Me/In more than a dozen interviews, young people explained how the events of the past few days became what one called a 'tipping point'" (NYT).
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36 comments:
And while these Chinese citizens are taking to the streets in order to try to regain the most basic of human and civil rights, where is the support of the political classes of the West?
Nowhere to be found.
Cowards or bought and paid for quislings. All of them.
the secret secret, is; that NO ONE wants to live Under communism.
Some people (here), want to make sure that OTHERS live under communism; but NO ONE wants it for themselves
I fear for these demonstrators. The shadow of Tien An Men looms over everything they say and do.
BTW there is a great irony in the name Tien An Men: “Gate of Heavenly Peace.”
It's hard to support them when we all know that they're just going to kill them.
Stick to your own sorry country, NYT.
They have little chance of success without guns.
If we had real leaders in DC, they'd figure out a way to smuggle guns into China.
WaPo should send Taylor Lorenz over there to interview these protestors.
Agree that the people in China have few good options: armed uprising is almost impossible (what would make the PLA switch sides? Its members know where their bread is buttered, and every enlisted man or woman has relatives whose continued health and prosperity depends on his or her good conduct). And short of armed uprising, why would the authorities care much about some noisy demonstrations, whose authors are soon identified and isolated and silenced thanks to that incredible digital panopticon the country has devised?
As for actually * wanting* to negotiate with protestors, why would the regime ever do so? It would signal weakness, and rivals are poised to exploit any weakness.
Maybe the protestors can go passive, stop working, destroy their own lives as a kind of weapon against the regime. But that’s another highly unlikely course.
No good options here. Too bad they had no Second Amendment. It forces a regime to tread a bit more cautiously…
I'd like to support the protesters, but we opted for a mostly CCP friendly government. I expect the protests to grow for a bit, the Chinese government to stand back until everyone gets bored, then 3 months later, people will just disappear, but the main leaders of the protests will be arrested with lots of media coverage, made to denounce their previous behavior, and then later executed. No one will ever protest Apple or Walmart.
It won't be long before Xi Jinpingpong brings out the heavy weapons versus the stick wielding peasants.
The funny thing about economic freedom. Eventually, no matter how oppressed, people will demand political freedom. It's almost like the two go hand in hand.
It's hard to support them when we all know that they're just going to kill them.
A model of Obama's Persian Spring, Biden's Afghan Spring, and Biden's Slavic Spring, too. As well as Biden's immigration reform, rape sanctuary, and collateral damage from clinic to clinic across America.
If we had real leaders in DC, they'd figure out a way to smuggle guns into China.
Or scalpels. The last mass abortion field -- around two dozens no longer viable adults and children -- was opened with a blade. Thousands in America, but the Chinese people are new to the wicked solution, formerly the State's Choice, but with progress NOW her Choice.
"And while these Chinese citizens are taking to the streets in order to try to regain the most basic of human and civil rights, where is the support of the political classes of the West?
"Nowhere to be found.
"Cowards or bought and paid for quislings. All of them."
And what, exactly, do you expect the political classes of the West to do?
"They have little chance of success without guns.
"If we had real leaders in DC, they'd figure out a way to smuggle guns into China."
As if we could, and as if that would suffice to change things. Political change can only happen from within. It cannot be imposed or grown from the outside.
YoungHegelian said...
And while these Chinese citizens are taking to the streets in order to try to regain the most basic of human and civil rights, where is the support of the political classes of the West?
The Biden Regime is coordinating with the largest corporations in the world to eliminate free speech.
This is a world wide phenomena. If you get outside the tired bubble of main stream media you will find out that the Military in Brazil is on the cusp of arresting the WEF puppet socialist that "won" the obviously stolen election there.
Apple has been helping the Chinese Regime suppress their people just like they were helping the Obama and Biden regime suppress Americans.
This is happening all over Europe right now. If you want some fun and games you can watch Meloni call out Macro for French exploitation of Africa.
They are trying to coopt the crypto world right now as well. FTX and BlockFi were both given special status by the SEC.
This is class warfare at every level of government in the world.
Robert Cook said...
As if we could, and as if that would suffice to change things. Political change can only happen from within. It cannot be imposed or grown from the outside.
Japan does not exist. Nor does South Korea.
I was there in Afghanistan when girls were allowed to go to school.
The real problem for Cook is that every time there is conflict between the government and the people he is cheering for the government.
Cook dreams of the chance to wield power like the Chinese government. That is why his Religion of Secular Atheism is the bloodiest cultural movement in history.
I hope they understand that a regime like that can (and does) make people disappear. Thousands. When the regime in Iran took over in 1979, perhaps 30,000 people vanished. China has a very bad history in this regard.
@Robert Cook,
And what, exactly, do you expect the political classes of the West to do?
Don't you think the affected citizens of China might welcome some show of support, however meager, to see that the world stands with them? Every after-event report I have ever read of a "Color" Revolution has some participant talking about how important it was for them to know that the world hadn't forgotten them.
Also, the West could let China know upfront that a harsh Red Guards/Tianamen Square type crackdown will have severe consequences for Chinese relations with the West.
As first time marchers
Is there such a thing as a second time in China?
Give back my movies!
Cinemagoing must be a more pleasant experience over there.
being terrified about speaking out against the democrat party USA - will soon feel this way. oh wait. soon is now.
Xi and the CCP are sure trying to lose their Mandate From Heaven. I doubt they will lose it soon but if they keep this up they eventually will.
When is OUR tipping point coming?? How is our government much different than theirs?
https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2022/11/29/detailed-thread-shows-fbi-obliterated-bedrock-civil-liberties-in-their-j6-quest-to-defend-democracy/
Sending billions in weapons and lucre to the bullshit artist in Kiev/"Kyiiiiivvvv"... we should've sent it to these folks instead.
"And what, exactly, do you expect the political classes of the West to do?"
vis. Xi, I expect much more banging spoons on highchairs by western leaders.
If we had a real leader there would be a 1 billion dollar bounty on Xi's head for releasing the COVID virus on the world.
1 Million additional for every communist party member.
Agree that the people in China have few good options: armed uprising is almost impossible
"What is the penalty for tardiness?"
"Death."
"What is the penalty for revolution?"
"Death."
"Hmmm..."
R Mc @ 3:46: “…Hmmm…”
You make a good point. A very old point but it is never out of date.
Another way to state it is, a man without hope is a man without fear.
See also Sun Tzu, who urged his readers to give the enemy a “golden bridge” by which to avoid the existential no-exit battle of all against all.
"The real problem for Cook is that every time there is conflict between the government and the people he is cheering for the government."
My problem is that the USA, pretending to want to "liberate" the oppressed of other nations, (while really intervening for our own self-serving purposes), have failed at every attempt of "liberating" the oppressed. We have succeeded only in causing more death and destruction and the destruction of societies.
And, to repeat myself, and as our failures attest, we cannot import or impose "liberation" for peoples elsewhere. Each nation must find its own way to achieve that from within.
Th American J6 protestors know exactly how those people feel as they sit in Garfinkle's gulag.
Cook
Has Russia done a better job of liberating the oppressed?
Robert Cook: "...Each nation must find its own way..." Why do you use such arbitrary and antiquated concepts as "nation"? Don't you realize that a "nation" is just a fiction imposed by the powerful to organize and delude the masses?
Robert Cook said...
"...And, to repeat myself, and as our failures attest, we cannot import or impose "liberation" for peoples elsewhere. Each nation must find its own way to eve that from within."
Once such a state of oppression exists as there is in China, there is no recourse for the people the state purports to represent. The state is the ultimate authority and there is no possibility of redress.
Any major Western leader has to tread carefully when it come to China, but if our elites had been more cautious about building up Chinese industry at the expense of our out and if Biden and his son hadn't taken all that money from China, people would be more inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.
And, to repeat myself, and as our failures attest, we cannot import or impose "liberation" for peoples elsewhere. Each nation must find its own way to achieve that from within.
Mr. Cook, it might be a good idea to distinguish between arming rebels or fighting wars and public criticism.
One is murder and violence.
The other is free speech -- that American godsend. Why are you critical of speakers (non-violent speakers!) and you say nothing about the killings done by that dictator in China?
I would think any pacifist man like yourself would support the people of China, who are in a helpless battle against the dictator in China.
Do not be surprised if Americans see and hear this and wonder if your Communist ideology about the world has corrupted your capacity to see murderous evil on the left.
If you say nothing when Stalin murders, when Mao murders, when Castro murders, when Chavez murders, but the only government you hate is our own, well, people just write you down as anti-American and quit hearing all the good things you have to say.
Your inability to support these protestors is fucking ugly. I'm sorry but these are good people and you are complicit in your silence. Please show me I'm wrong.
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