"The Spaniards who arrived in the 16th century told their king the peninsula was 'liable to overflow, and of no use,' and white people mostly stayed away until the U.S. Army chased the Seminole Indians into the Everglades in the 19th century. The soldiers forced to slog through its mosquito-infested bogs described it as a 'hideous,' 'diabolical,''repulsive,' 'pestilential,' 'God-abandoned' hellhole. The story of Florida in the 20th century is about dreamers and schemers trying to get rid of all that water and drain the swamp. Eventually, they mostly succeeded, transforming a remote wilderness into a sprawling megalopolis, replacing millions of acres of wetlands with strip malls and golf courses and sprawling subdivisions, building the Palmetto and Sawgrass Expressways where palmettos and sawgrass used to be.... Cape Coral is Florida on steroids, a comically artificial landscape featuring seven perfectly rectangular man-made islands and eight perfectly square man-made lakes. It was built by two shady brothers who made their fortunes selling scammy anti-baldness tonics, then used their talent for flimflam to sell inaccessible swampland to suckers.... 'You can even get stucco,' the land-swindler played by Groucho Marx quipped in Cocoanuts. 'Oh, how you can get stuck-oh!'"
Writes Michael Grunwald in "Why the Florida Fantasy Withstands Reality/Cape Coral is a microcosm of Florida’s worst impulse: selling dream homes in a hurricane-prone flood zone. But people still want them" (The Atlantic).
75 comments:
The walking dead is everybody. So why not enjoy a nice house in an agreeable climate (well, mostly agreeable) with the charms of exotic flora and fauna while it lasts? Or you can move back to Nooyawk and get pushed in front of a subway train by a homicidal lunatic at liberty on a no-cash bail.
A home in a flood plain? Some people love them.
He lives in Miami. How is that less hurricane-prone than Coral Springs?
When the Dutch turn sea level (or below) land into useful farm or living space, it's brilliant. When Floridians do it, it's a con. Or maybe I'm wrong, maybe he says disparaging things about The Netherlands too.
I'm struck as I see a nation, essentially run completely by Democrats at the national level, step all over themselves to borrow our future in order to ship billions and billions of federal tax dollars of relief funds to replace the multi-million-dollar homes and million-dollar-yachts of Florida's untaxed coastal elite.
Democrats: Fighting for the working man, yo.
Christ, you Americans are so fucking stupid.
I'm struck as I see a nation, essentially run completely by Democrats at the national level, step all over themselves to borrow our future in order to ship billions and billions of federal tax dollars of relief funds to replace the multi-million-dollar homes and million-dollar-yachts of Florida's untaxed coastal elite.
Democrats: Fighting for the working man, yo.
Christ, you Americans are so fucking stupid.
Cape Coral is a microcosm of Florida’s worst impulse:
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applies in more ways than one : find out why Lee County Electric Cooperative Intentionally Delaying Power Restoration
so was The Nether-lands ---- invite them over to fix these challenges
Now do San Francisco, Minneapolis, Chicago,New York... I could go on and on.
Man with job he could do anywhere, even before the great "Work From Home" of the pandemic laments where he has chosen to live. Hate's it, you know, except for all those other places he could live.
Only the first of the hate DeSantis essays from the left. Fort Myers was a nice city when I almost moved there in 1972. Cape Coral was just developing then. Now it is apparently larger than Fort Myers. I think this is the first major hurricane to hit that part of the state. The writer would rather live in New York City with all the crime and craziness in the streets. Most people moving to Florida have heard about hurricanes and prefer the risk rather than Democrat hellholes.
I lived in Melbourne, Florida for 1 year and 348 days in the 80’s.
I found it to be physically ugly and the lack of seasons and elevation depressing.
In the past we have vacationed in Rosemary Beach, but for no more than a week.
Sweltering humidity has always been my idea of hell, but to each his own.
AIR CONDITIONING made Florida. There was always solid ground in North Florida and a good portion of Central and South Florida. It was a/c that made it livable for the masses. No home in Florida is without a/c, even the poorest have window a/c, unlike many Yankee homes. It not just the heat, or even the humidity, it’s that the heat doesn’t abate at night. There is no escaping it without a/c.
--- “the least natural, worst-planned, craziest-growing piece of an unnatural, badly planned, crazy-growing state.”
Freedom.
Drives busybodies, tedious bores, and totalitarians crazy.
New Orleans by... in the sea. California in a rubble at the plate's edge. Hawaii waiting for the next deluge. District of Corruption rotting in a swamp rotting in a District of Corruption. New York City subsiding. That said, they are correct about the state of Florida, but people... persons choose to enjoy its fruits in between Nature's Choice anyway. Martha's Vineyard should be underwater with rising waters, or not.
No state income tax. No snow. Lots of beach. Occasionally a pro-freedom governor like Desantis.
"The walking dead is everybody. So why not enjoy a nice house in an agreeable climate (well, mostly agreeable) with the charms of exotic flora and fauna while it lasts? Or you can move back to Nooyawk and get pushed in front of a subway train by a homicidal lunatic at liberty on a no-cash bail."
Having lived in both Florida and NYC for extended periods of my life, I would pick NYC over anywhere in Florida any time. If we're talking about only south Florida, I would always pick almost anyplace anywhere, (excepting Arizona or Nevada).
Florida has never been shut down by a blizzard so there's that.
They entire East coast and golf coast are at risk from hurricanes.
California has their earth quakes and wild fires.
Is there anyplace on earth where there is zero risk from severe weather?
The attacks on DeSantis are just getting started.
Dirty him up any way possible. With Trump they attacked his businesses. Hers they go after an entire state.
Fuck these people. I'm just about ready for the shooting to start.
I was reminded of General Sherman's description of his time in Florida in the 1830/40s for the war with the Seminoles before he was sent to California in the mid-1840s to be in the room when the US government was notified of the California gold. He really was a direct witness to America's history in the mid-19th century
While the native tribes would have been left alone longer than then they were in Oklahoma territory, in time, Florida became very valuable.
[Speaking in the context of the abundant game and fish that sustained pockets of Seminoles hiding from the army]
"Indeed, Florida was the Indian’s paradise, was of little value to us, and it was a great pity to remove the Seminoles at all, for we could have collected there all the Choctaws, Creeks, Cherokees, and Chickasaws, to the Seminoles. They would have thrived in the Peninsula, whereas they now occupy lands that are very valuable, which are coveted by their white neighbors on all sides, while the Peninsula of Florida still remains with a population less than should make a good State."
—Memoirs of General Willam T. Sherman, vol 1, (1886) pg 26
And worst of all, Florida has a Republican governor. What a pestilential waste that state is.
The whole state is a "hurricane-prone flood zone."
Cape Coral is Florida on steroids
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD STOP USING THAT EXPRESSION THAT WAS WORN OUT 30 YEARS AGO!
i don't see the problem, with developing Florida as much as we can.. Just Follow the SCIENCE!
The world is Cooling (NEW (continuing) ICE AGE COMING!)
The seas are lowering
Just FOLLOW THE SCIENCE! Or, if you prefer.. Follow the Money!
There's Sun People and there's Smog People. George Harrison made a mint off one of these groups. Nancy Pelosi, a mint off the other.
"Why the Florida Fantasy Withstands Reality"
Hey, can I play?
Why the LA fantasy withstands reality.
Why the SoCal fantasy withstands reality.
Why the New Orleans fantasy withstands reality.
Of course, they all withstand reality mostly at other people's expense.
I wish you were Unknown.
But...but...but... we were told Florida is being slowly inundated by...climate change!!!
Rising seas, and all that.
And here you come along to tell us that local Indians told the Spanish centuries ago the land was already swampy and useless. I feel so deceived...
p.s. I've already seen idiot journos reporting how great for Florida's economy the reconstruction effort will be---the estupidos still don't know about the "Broken Window Fallacy".
Funny. I was discussing "sustainability" with a colleague from San Francisco just yesterday, and I asked her if adding ten million people over the last few decades to a state as dry as California fit with her idea of sustainability. She's a PhD scientist and hyper-vocal about environmental issues, yet it seemed like it was the first time that she ever considered the question. It was as if her brain crashed and rebooted in front of me. After rebooting, she started babbling about Trump.
Ann, I thought anonymous comments were not allowed.
They should all move to the San Andreas fault zone. Very few hurricanes.
Human ingenuity is an amazing thing.
Where is the place on earth where humans could live and survive and possibly even thrive a little without disrupting the so-called natural environment in any way? I say so-called natural because all that word means is free of obvious human involvement, whether that makes better or worse is often a subjective conclusion in my opinion.
so was The Nether-lands ---- invite them over to fix these challenges
St. Petersburg, Russia was built from a swamp. It's otherwise known as progress.
On the other hand, so was Washington, D.C., and it's still a swamp, of a sort.
After Katrina many argued New Orleans should not be rebuilt because it too is largely built on reclaimed swampland, lies below sea level, and is prone to hurricanes. Natives disagreed.
I was just looking at some before/after photos of Sanibel Island and other areas hit hard by Ian.
There is a reason they're called "Barrier Islands".
Building on shorelines carries risk. Always has, always will. But we do know how to build structures more likely to survive.
Houses should be poured concrete structures with basalt or FRP rebar that won't rust. Same with roads. First floor should be above worst case flood projections. Will the houses cost more? Yes. Will poor people be able to afford them? No. But can the poor afford to keep losing their mobile homes?
My son's house in Brevard on the other side of the state still has standing water. Just got pics today. His next door neighbor has a shallow moat around the house. They're about 8 miles inland. Walking through his yard last summer when I visited- all of the ground is always squishy. He has 6 sets of pipes that are well points- he doesn't know which one feeds his house. Also has one that's an artesian well point. Open the valve and water comes out. At least 7' of head pressure- I held the hose end up to see. Water was flowing freely.
No wind damage to the houses in his subdivision. Hurricane clips and good roofing material. No boarded up windows- all have built in hurricane shutters. He sent a pictures of downed trees, including the one that knocked out subdivision power. Non of the trees were broken or failed- the ground they were rooted in gave way and the trees toppled over. Up here in CNY when there's a huge winstorm, or other bad weather, the trees themselves break.
I remember being in Tampa and reading a sign put up in the touristy area. An eyewitness account at the time said something along the line that if Satan owned both Hell and Florida, he would rent out Florida and live in Hell.
I suppose Satan was never much of a real estate mogul.
Unknown
The elite live in well built homes built to hurricane standards. The elite do not live in Ft Meyers. The government does not underwrite boats.
Yea. I’d love to see the same sneering contempt for the idiots who pay a million bucks for the equivalent of a Home Depot storage shed for a home on the San Francisco peninsula which sits on the San Andreas fault. I’ll take the sun and beaches of Cape Coral over a 9.0 crashing my home down on me. The hint about a hurricane; you get a weeks notice. You can literally crawl out of its way. An earthquake you get no notice. It hits and your just dead.
Fully one-third of the Netherlands lies below sea level, so remind me again what your Florida point is?
Was Stucco the 6th Marx Brother?
Water and storm surge is the greatest threat in any hurricane. Andrew in 1992 was a true aberration: a super-powerful, compact, relatively dry hurricane whose winds destroyed much of South Dade. It served as a wakeup call to communities to update their housing and construction codes.
Thanks to G_d for those Democrat hellholes whom pay excessively into the Federal government so it can be transfered to Trumpster sewer holes when they need their ass wiped after they shit the bed.
Cape Coral has no colleges! Oh No! Florida Gulf Coast University being a 16 mile drive South. Not to mention all the other colleges in Ft. Myers. Then there's that "ultra-Republican" retirement community, which just happens to be filled with Democrats too. What's this guy been doing for the past decade, as that's how long it has been since he had an article in the Atlantic? I guess they both need some click bail.
M said...
AIR CONDITIONING made Florida. There was always solid ground in North Florida and a good portion of Central and South Florida. It was a/c that made it livable for the masses. No home in Florida is without a/c, even the poorest have window a/c, unlike many Yankee homes. It not just the heat, or even the humidity, it’s that the heat doesn’t abate at night. There is no escaping it without a/c.
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That's largely true, but I know poor people who live without it. I lived without it for a year because, due to my then-circumstances, I couldn't afford to run it. You manage.
Janet Reno grew up and lived in a house without A/C.
In 1908, the Ruskin colony paid 20 cents per tree to clear Palmettos to build what would become the produce tracks and HW 41, at least until the legislature changed the lines to sit on land owned by legislators. So it has been. So it is. So it will always be.
People build. Governments destroy. You don't fix the problem by pretending they can't beat you: you have to beat them.
It's hard. Not as hard as pulling out Palmetto stumps wearing wool long johns to keep the mosquitoes from giving you yellow fever in 1908 Florida.
More people get shot in Chicago and Philly every year than are killed in storms every fifty years in all of Florida. Also St. Louis, New Orleans, Baltimore...I could go on. NYC is on the way. And few shotgun victims or their survivors pay a dime of medical care, which averages over $100k per hospitalization. We pay it. Maybe we should start calling it flood insurance subsidies.
To inhale a grapefruit tree so heavy with hundreds of globes of the sweetest brown fruit that the limbs at dawn drop to the ground with dew is worth packing up every three years or so to go inland for a few days. You just build what you can afford to lose.
But, each for their own.
I'm with John D MacDonald. I need to get back to Florida.
life comes with risk.
Make your choices, and buy insurance.
Howard - everyone knows the left do not pay their fair share in taxes. Look at crooks Biden family.
Mary Beth: Miami is populated largely by foreign investment in high rises. They also require very, very strict building codes to make buildings hurricane proof. Poorer cities nearby don't fare as well, but Miami's demise is overstated.
Unknown: federal subsidies of flood insurance were removed overnight around 2011. Lloyd's of London stepped in and kept rates steady. The vast majority of people in flood zones are neither wealthy nor on the waterfront, and we have been tweaking these laws, improving building codes, and limiting federal subsidies for more than a decade under sane and sober Republican leadership.
I hate palmetto. Huge areas covered with the things. Maybe not so much anymore. Sea oats
started disappearing along the beaches years ago on Pinellas. My grandmom from Oklahoma wasn't here 10 years before she was a member of some group out to save the sea oats. Which they did.
People love picking the things. Half moon over Tampa Bay last night. Very nice harbor moon.
Biff. Great word picture of your PhD friend. Seen the same with fewer degrees.
In the midwest....geologists a thousand years from now are going to discover that Michigan's lower peninsula shores are lined with boulders from Wisconsin and wonder what in hell kind of glacier that was.
Installed, they're about $3k a running foot. But the lake rises and rises.....
Blogger Howard said...
Thanks to G_d for those Democrat hellholes whom pay excessively into the Federal government so it can be transfered to Trumpster sewer holes when they need their ass wiped after they shit the bed.
Howard, those Democrat hellholes (at least you are honest about them) soak up more in taxes than ten hurricanes. Think about the budgets of Chicago, Detroit, St Louis, Philadelphia, Atlanta. The myth about blue states paying more in taxes may apply to NYC but I doubt any other Democrat hellhole.
Growing up in Florida, we smart-ass college kids used to say, "It's not the heat, it's the humility." Like humility was a bad thing.
Not a Florida fan myself, but people like it for no state income tax, winter golf, (used to be) cheap houses, and to get away from the shitty New England winter weather.
As noted above, it would be uninhabitable in the summer without A/C...
Buffalo Commons was the idea of letting large stretches of the Great Plains be reclaimed by nature. Some people like the idea of evicting others and returning large parts of the country to what's presumed to be its natural state. It seems to fit well with the idea that automation is turning most of us into superfluous eaters who have to be disposed of.
Frederick Lewis Allen's Only Yesterday was very good on the Florida land boom of a century ago. The boom and bust gave 1920s South Florida a taste of what the country and the world would be in for by the end of the decade.
"Howard - everyone knows the rich do not pay their fair share in taxes. Look at crooks Biden family."
And the Trumps.
I fixed it for you, and amended it.
Biff said...
Funny. I was discussing "sustainability" with a colleague from San Francisco just yesterday, and I asked her if adding ten million people over the last few decades to a state as dry as California fit with her idea of sustainability. She's a PhD scientist and hyper-vocal about environmental issues, yet it seemed like it was the first time that she ever considered the question. It was as if her brain crashed and rebooted in front of me. After rebooting, she started babbling about Trump.
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You'll get the same kind of reaction if you point to huge population increases rather than "climate change" as the reason for Lake Powell's dramatic decline. When it was created and filled, the man-made lake was supposed to service a population 1/10th the size of today's.
But no: Californians blame "mega drought" induced by CO2 increases. NEVER MIND that most of the Sunshine State is semi-arid to begin with.
Florida is okay for months with an ‘r’ except for September.
Unknown said...
I'm struck as I see a nation, essentially run completely by Democrats at the national level, step all over themselves to borrow our future in order to ship billions and billions of federal tax dollars of relief funds to replace the multi-million-dollar homes and million-dollar-yachts of Florida's untaxed coastal elite.
Democrats: Fighting for the working man, yo.
Christ, you Americans are so fucking stupid.
*************
So.....it's been pointed out to you that:
* Floridians DO pay federal taxes
* yachts are not covered by disaster funds (or non-existent federal flood insurance)
* Ft. Meyers is not a winter haven for rich people
It should also be noted that Floridians funds its government by collecting sales taxes, documentary stamp taxes, insurance taxes, corporate income taxes, property taxes, and charges for services offered by the government. Corporate and property taxes of course land most heavily on the rich.
For a foreigner mocking Americans as stupid, you don't seem to have a command of the basic facts.
Not a good look.
I just moved to Florida. Arrived the Sunday before Ian. A bit of rain and a little wind was all we experienced. But then we chose North Central Florida to minimize the impact of hurricanes.
For Unknown, Floridians pay federal taxes, just not state taxes.
It is terrible that millions want live there.
BTW dad got home to Bradenton and all is well.
I'm glad Cook is out of Florida and will never move back. Too bad he can't take the rest of his likeminded people to The Great Apple with him.
Howard you should be thanking Trump for flattening the tax burden. Before Trump all else being the same Floridians were subsidizing the Democrat shitholes by paying a larger percentage to the Feds than those states with state and local income taxes.
So-called Super Storm Sandy was by Floridian standards a tropical storm, a nothing burger. Let an Ian hit the Northeast and then you will see a real horror show. Unfortunately one day and Ian will hit the Northeast.
St. Petersburg, Russia was built from a swamp. It's otherwise known as progress.
On the other hand, so was Washington, D.C., and it's still a swamp, of a sort.
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Peter used serfs
DC used slaves
not so? for Netherlands!
more sweat equity skin in game etc.
Janet Reno grew up and lived in a house without A/C.
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still took orders from Billy Clinton! when she was in DC
and killed and threatened people in Camp Dravidian and Elian Gonzale
I laugh at what purports to be an essay meant to be read. One could easily write something similar about any place, state or city in the US -- especially ones that this fool has lived in.
I moved to Florida from the NE in Jan 71 and thought I was in paradise. It's not -- summers are brutal but you manage -- but it's pretty close. I walk the beach almost every day -- on days when it is 90 (we rarely get 100+ temp days such as those in Texas) and the breeze and the waves lapping at my feet make it pleasurable.
I am glad some people don't want to move here but I won't begrudge those who do. So many NYers have made their way here in the past couple of years that this writer must be envious and lying his ass off.
Last Thursday it was 68 degrees at sunrise and this winter is going to be beautiful. My electric bill is only double digit, it won't get hot again until May, I don't have to pay a state income tax and we have the best governor in the US. (You mean 47?)
My adopted hometown may not be the best place to live in America, but I like it just fine.
MarcusB THEOLDMAN
I was just talking to one of my neighbors yesterday. I'm in Sarasota- the Gulf Coast. We've always had a lot of people from the upper Midwest come here, but over the last few years it's been a huge influx from the mid-Atlantic up through the Northeast. A lot of New Yorkers, people from New Jersey, Connecticut, Boston, and Baltimore. A weird mix. Many of them seem like they just could not get their heads around life down here anyway, so I suspect a few will find themselves back in New York/New Jersey rather soon. And that's just fine.
Florida is not for everyone. I get that. It's different. I've lived and worked all over this country and I can say that Florida, on the whole, is not my favorite state. But it is the best run state I've ever lived in, and this part of the state- the Gulf Coast- IS my favorite place that I've ever lived.
That we got hit by the worst hurricane in 100 years seems an odd time for those haters of DeSantis or of the success of Florida to find time to dump. But, whatever. That's pretty much what we do these days.Those who don't like Florida, don't have to like Florida. We don't require you to like us, to be like us, or think like us. We're not like some other places in that way.
For the record, there are many coastal areas around this country that are vulnerable to natural disasters, including New York City. If that once in a century storm does come to New York, we'll be watching earnestly and wishing them the best as I'm sure most of them did us. Then we'll say to ourselves, "Whew...sure glad I don't live there!".
Robert Cook said...
"Howard - everyone knows the rich do not pay their fair share in taxes. Look at crooks Biden family."
And the Trumps.
I fixed it for you, and amended it.
*****************
If the Biden family doesn't pay taxes on unreported income obtained through graft and corruption, they are not paying their "fair share".
But since no one has ever established that the Trump family hasn't paid what the tax code requires, they have, according to the law, paid their "fair share".
Dolt.
I remember the Florida ads for land in the 60's. Cheap acreage, beautiful climate and sunny beaches. I think everyone knew it was mosquito ridden swampland. Now I wish I had bought some around Orlando.
Robert Cook said...
"Howard - everyone knows the rich do not pay their fair share in taxes. Look at crooks Biden family."
And the Trumps.
I fixed it for you, and amended it.
Remember when that MSNBC lesbian got a copy of Trump's 1995 tax return? She was jubilant until she learned he had paid $25 million in taxes that year.
Cook, you are not worth a pimple on Trump's ass.
"Having lived in both Florida and NYC for extended periods of my life..."
The most amusing thing about dreary Outer Party slugs is the illusion that intelligent people admire their opinions.
>>As noted above, it would be uninhabitable in the summer without A/C...
I was born in Miami. For a place that was "uninhabitable" there certainly were a lot of people around. And, yes, it was miserable in the summer. Mom had to wash the sheets every day because you would wake up soaking wet with sweat.
We didn't have an AC in the house until dad bought a wall unit when I was about 5.
Most of my friends grew up the same way.
>>Having lived in both Florida and NYC for extended periods of my life, I would pick NYC over anywhere in Florida any time.
In the past, I turned down jobs that were located in NYC, so you literally couldn't pay me to live there.
To each his own.
My question is... how are they gonna recharge their electric vehicles out there in Florida where the hurricane hit?
Pretty easy to get a 5 gal can of gasoline... but electricity? And if you bring a generator.. don't 'cha gotta bring gas to?
In the past, I turned down jobs that were located in NYC, so you literally couldn't pay me to live there.
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is it true that only 21 bridges to close off and shut down NYC?
Temujin posted:
"I was just talking to one of my neighbors yesterday. I'm in Sarasota- the Gulf Coast. We've always had a lot of people from the upper Midwest come here, but over the last few years it's been a huge influx from the mid-Atlantic up through the Northeast. A lot of New Yorkers, people from New Jersey, Connecticut, Boston, and Baltimore. A weird mix. Many of them seem like they just could not get their heads around life down here anyway, so I suspect a few will find themselves back in New York/New Jersey rather soon. And that's just fine."
Your mention of where people moved from brings this remembrance from the early 90s: Situated with the USPS in Palm Beach County, I traveled weekly to Punta Gorda, Ft. Myers and surrounding areas. Based on feedback and personal observations, I once remarked, paraphrasing: "The SE coast of Florida is full of people from the Northeast - work in Boca Raton and it seems as if New York sent multitudes of Italians and Jews there, trying to replicate the lifestyles they fled from. But you go to the West coast of Florida and you run into retirees from the (upper) Midwest: after dinner they go bowling and then home to watch Matlock before bed."
During the pandemic I took a PT job at a local produce market. We offered "Jersey Beefsteak Tomatoes" at $3.99 a lb. (they were actually grown in and shipped from Tennessee) and the worst part was customers constantly telling us that they were from Jersey and knew what a good tomato (don't forget corn) was.
MarcusB THEOLDMAN
Just like when the housing crisis devastated Lee County, I told everyone: "There's no recession on sunshine." People tired of the cold will always move there, especially when the governor, has the nerve to use the Hurricane to show...his competence.
You can’t catch snook, permit or bonefish anywhere else in this country.
New York is an absolute shithole. I include the area around Woodstock. Miserable people who hate living there. Of course Cook likes it.
Narayanan @ 3:20 AM,
Now do water and electric feeds.
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