... the ones who are saying yes, that's the thing that Althouse questioned that one time and Paul Soglin, the Mayor of Madison, instead of engaging respectfully, decided to attack her big time, so she was forced to resort to reason and mockery?
I'm reading "Madison Public Market all but scrapped, as officials make one last plea to alders for funding" (WKOW).
Here's the post I wrote on January 10, 2017:
"On his blog, Mayor Paul Soglin takes on the UW's conservative blogger Ann Althouse for disparaging the city's proposed public market, mocking it as a liberal creation."
"Soglin extols the benefits the public market will begin to deliver and admonishes Althouse to stop portraying everything in Madison as crafted by liberals and reeking of socialism when, in fact, the plans are crafted by liberals reeking in capitalism."
I'm seeing that this morning in the local paper, The Capital Times, with no reporter's name attached to it. It's an embarrassing misreading of my post, but I don't know whether the misreading is by the Cap Times or the Mayor.
Here's the post of mine from a few days ago. It quotes a fundraising consultant who says she discovered that "people got more and more interested in the project" when she told them it was "about inclusiveness, and having a place for a variety of cultures and ethnicities to come together." My mockery was limited to expressing skepticism about whether people really were interested or merely "conscious of the need to look interested... when someone comes at you with talk of 'inclusiveness' and the 'com[ing] together' of 'cultures and ethnicities.'"
Beyond that, I confessed that "I've never been able to understand" the idea of the public market. That's not mocking the market, just admitting I don't get it. And I really don't get the idea that it's a tool for achieving "racial equity and social justice." I didn't say a word about capitalism and socialism. I'm just doing racial critique and suspicious that people are using racial propaganda to grease some project they want.
So let's take a look at Mayor Soglin's blog:
This weekend Ann Althouse mocked — she is good at that — the Madison Public Market....What did she do? She used mockery...
Soglin says:
There is good reason why the analysis of the Public Market includes a focus on diversity, inclusiveness, and equity.The bullet-point list that follows gives a visual impression of an argument, but I can't find it. The recent recession "was bad, and is still challenging, for low income families and individuals," these people need "entry-level jobs," entrepreneurship in food business can provide entry level jobs, and "low-income people of all colors and races" can engage in entrepreneurship. What is the argument? We're going to move toward racial equity with some new food service jobs and new potential to start a food-service business?
Speaking of entrepreneurship, you're not doing very well as an idea entrepreneur, Mayor Soglin. I said I didn't understand the idea. I'm open to listening to an argument, but you are not making it. You're just dropping a disjointed list out there as if the points add up. It's a tad underpants-gnomish.
Soglin proceeds to offer information about markets in other cities. The one in Seattle, he tells us, "is expensive and losing its charm as it is now a major tourist destination." Was it sold as helping the poor and minorities?
The one in Philadelphia is said to be good but related to the railway. Here, Soglin reminds us that — because of Scott Walker — we didn't get a train. So no train-related market for us. What that had to do with helping the poor and minorities, I don't know.
Next, Soglin refers to 3 markets in Minneapolis and York, Pennsylvania. The one in York supports vendors who are "almost all white, reflecting the population of the community." Wouldn't that support the prediction that a public market in 78.9% -white Madison would serve the interests of white people? What is the argument for the market as a racial-progress tool?
I don't think Soglin addresses my questions seriously at all. He dings me for mockery, but my mockery is much more serious than his haphazard dumping of factoids with no substance linking them up into a reasonable argument.
Really, he fails to see that I went easy on him by keeping things light with questions, confessions of inability to understand, and invitations to engage. He did not engage.
And check out his last paragraph:
If Althouse can look beyond her own exclusive world, one reeking in privilege, perhaps she will escape the shackles of her rigid assumption that everything in Madison is crafted by liberals, reeking in socialism. At times these plans are crafted by liberals reeking in capitalism.He said "reeking" three times. I guess he thinks smelliness is funny. Maybe he's into the metaphor that ideology is odor.
Let's take a closer sniff.
The first "reeking" is my exclusive, privileged world. What world is that? Madison, Wisconsin? The University of Wisconsin? The law school?
Next, I'm accused of having a "rigid assumption that everything in Madison is crafted by liberals, reeking in socialism." That doesn't connect to anything in my post. The rigidity must be in his head. He who smelt it dealt it.
He's afraid, I suspect, that he'll be accused of socialism. But I was expressing skepticism about race-based propaganda for things that don't seem to have anything to do with race.
I didn't hit you over the head with this, Mayor Soglin, but your project seems to be offering something white middle-class people like. And one of the things these people like is the feeling that they are not greedily grasping at something they want, but helping the poor and minorities.
And speaking of liberal self-love, why do you think you smell so good when you're trying to do capitalism? Do you think socialism stinks or do you think you stink of socialism and need to douse yourself with capitalism to get something done? I never talked about capitalism and socialism. I talked about race propaganda, who really benefits, and will this thing really work?
Take a metaphorical shower and come back when you're ready to talk substance, sound argument, and reality.
ADDED: Meade points out that Soglin put a link on "reeking in privilege" in that last paragraph, where he's saying I'm in an "exclusive, privileged world." It goes to a post of mine from yesterday, "Did you watch the Golden Globes last night and hear what the entertainment industry people had to say about Trump?" That's a post making fun of the Hollywood elite that partied with Obama on Saturday and celebrated themselves with awards on Sunday. I was saying we weren't watching the Globes but the Packers game. Well, it is a privilege to live in Wisconsin and root for the Packers, but I don't think that's what he could have meant. I do see that my post used the phrase "reeking privilege." I said:
But I find celebrity talk about presidential politics so compulsively avoidable these days. The celebrities all backed Hillary Clinton. They — in their reeking privilege — seemed to have had their hearts set on 8 more years of glamming it up in the White House.Does that show me in an "exclusive world"? It's a world anyone can enter. All you've got to do is feel sick of celebrities talking about presidential politics. Come on in! Everyone's welcome. Want to watch the Packers game?
58 comments:
Always hold a grudge and settle scores when you can.
This is the right thing to do...I'm serious : )
I guess his inability to articulate the benefits of his legacy project carried over to his last election as he was routed by someone probably even more liberal and green.
Anyone who supports a project by claiming it helps the poor/BIPOC/LGBT/green cause automatically plays the white privilege card against anyway who dares question it.
As with all these vanity projects, they end up 2-5 times costlier than when they are approved. Luckily, under a new administration they could let it die a quiet death.
A guy could make a Hell of a living in Madison by hiring himself out as "Your Black Friend For A Day."
It would help if he was black. And a plantation drawl would be a big plus.
It seems the project was more about getting federal funds. When mismanagement lost federal funding, the local government wasn’t really interested. Speaking of trains, this project seems a lot like California’s high speed rail. They really wanted it until federal funding dried up.
Well, Ann was right. Chalk it up as a major victory.
When did you become a "conservative" Althouse?
First, Soglin clearly failed to rise to Althouse’s challenge. His was not an argument for the market.
But the market itself didn’t seem to justify itself. There was a demand for what exactly, that customers would pay for? And how would the minority vendors meet that demand? Pike Place and the Reading Terminal Market used fresh food and high-end products that appealed to white, middle-class urbanites. Was Madison’s primary criterion for attracting vendors based on minority status, or on the passion and ability to supply fresh food, coffee, etc?
A rhetorical victory and, apparently, an economic one as well. (However much some people (including those who dislike TikTok videos) might have liked to see Madison’s progressive taxpayers bear the financial costs of market failure.) ;-)
Prof, I am glad to report that you have at least three (3) kinds of reader: I wasn't here for the 2017 post (TL,DR), and I haven't wondered about the Madison Public Market, and your thoughts thereon, at all.
I'm not much for pro football either.
Well, I'm not the first kind of reader. Why wouldn't you engage with events in your own city? And I'm not the second kind of reader because my memory isn't good enough. But I am the kind of reader who likes when you fight. You're good at it and you win.
Wonder why he doesn't mention the Milwaukee Public Market? That seems to be working - come on over, Madison privilege-reekers and enjoy it.
The public market in Philadelphia---The Reading Terminal Market---is NOT tied to "trains" in any meaningful way. The building was an actual old-timey train terminal but now is just a cool old building. This market has been in existence since at least the early 1900's and is located right in the heart of Center City Philadelphia. That's why it thrives, not because of trains.
Hilarious!
I gave a ride to a couple from Wisconsin earlier this week. The more I get to know about the rest of the country the better conversations I’ll be able to have with my prospective tippers.
Well, there's only so much money in the Madison budget. They have to choose between funding minority grifters who will inevitably come back for more, ore one-time settlements that mostly fall on their insurers. Not a tough call.
"Madison pays $1.1M settlement in case involving police tactics against teenager"
UW's conservative blogger, Ann Althouse...
Oh, Professor, you are just the epitome of quasi-fascist!
After observing the work of the master, I lay my tools down.
If it was a good idea vendors would jump at it. As it stands, like a train to nowhere, Madison is building this place on spec and then hoping vendors will magically show up.
Government isn't really very good at anything except spending your tax money.
Kudos, Ann for being skeptical.
1, 2, 7, 9.
1 is quickly funny. The others are informative and interesting, but I could do without the coda on 9.
You don't see a beatdown like that everyday ;) Soglin should challenge Ann to a fight more often.
If it’s any kind of business that needs to be funded with taxes it doesn’t need to exist.
Especially true of sports stadiums. ROI for taxpayers funding new stadium construction is always negative.
"When did you become a "conservative" Althouse?"
To them, "conservative" means someone who withholds support from liberal politicians.
Madison, WI 2022 budget; capital budget, 354.3 million, operating budget 360.3 million
And they can't find a mere 1-5 million dollars?
That's the thing that should be really exciting people, is this country is awash in money and yet we can't seem to afford anything anymore? Where is it all going?
Loved the "Let's take a closer sniff" line, cracked me up.
After 60 years of watching people try to obtain public money for "do-good' projects I am convinced that the only criteria for financing a project is whether or not it will attract private money. If it won't you can bet there is very little chance that project will fly successfully. CA bullet train, rapid transit in Minneapolis, this project in Madison are only the tip of the iceberg.
Perhaps they should do the Saturday Market thing by blocking off a stretch of street downtown on Saturday morning. Lots of towns do that and it seems to serve what is actually supportable. If there is the call, then go for the glorified pole barn.
I'm the third kind of reader: I live in Madison and I've been following the public market saga for years--with the same skepticism that you showed in your blog post--but I don't read your blog closely enough to remember or notice that Soglin had published a blog pushing back on your skepticism.
I like our new mayor. She's not thin-skinned like Soglin. She's reasonable. And aside from her wishy-washy behavior during the BLM protests, I think she's been doing a pretty good job. Stepping back from the public market at this time (rather than pushing ahead on a sunk-cost fallacy) is more evidence of that.
Loved the "Let's take a closer sniff" line, cracked me up.
Need a new tag:
feisty Althouse
To them, "conservative" means someone who withholds support from liberal politicians.
Isn't that also the definition of "racist," "fascist" and "woman hater"?
I see that "alders" has replaced "aldermen" and "alderwomen" in Madison, rather than going with "council members."
Is there a shortage of low-wage food-service jobs in Madison? Does the city's regulators allow minority (and majority) entrepreneurs to run food trucks?
He said "reeking" three times. I guess he thinks smelliness is funny
He's mocking the olfactory-challenged Althouse. Claim your victimhood!
"Government isn't really very good at anything except spending your tax money."
If the people in government who want to spend your money to do something aren't willing to spend their own money to do it, do you really have to ask why?
“The rigidity must be in his head. He who smelt it dealt it.”
Absolutely and without question.
"Stepping back from the public market at this time (rather than pushing ahead on a sunk-cost fallacy) is more evidence of that"
Agreed. Letting the idea slowly die was a good path.
My band was invited to play a promotional event for the Market near the start to the PR drive years ago. At some point, we realized we were the only ones being paid mostly with 'exposure' and I soured on the idea ... not really shocked by this ending.
As the famous phrase from a Chicago bluesman (have heard almost every name claimed to have said this) ... expose is not worth money, exposure is something you die of in winter.
"Does the city's regulators allow minority (and majority) entrepreneurs to run food trucks?"
Yes, but it is highly competitive and post Covid noon hour downtown is not as lucrative as it used to. That said, this location is worse for lunch crowd IMO
J Scott, All you need do is look at a chart showing the growth of public school staff vs. student numbers. Many government funded organizations show similar trends.
That's where the money is going.
I'd be happier if Althouse dialed up the rhetorical voltage more often. Her counterpunch against Soglin was quite satisfying to read.
Great riposte. Very nice deconstruction of the mayor's shallow attacks. We went to the Madison market about four years ago and thoroughly enjoyed it . We enjoyed the diversity of food, vegetables, fruit, and crafts. But we did notice a lack of Italian vendors, so I do recommend a special program for Italian capitalist vendors to increase diversity.
"When did you become a "conservative" Althouse?"
To them, "conservative" means someone who withholds support from liberal politicians.
Question: When will they claim you are a fascist? Careful: Keep this up and it won't be long!
Even liberal Madison can slough off a useless public work now. There’s a definite backlash to the pre-recession government spending spree. Da mayor’s weak attempt to beat an argument out of his thin talking points was an omen: the advocate for the project could not explain why the project was needed and the public apparently didn’t need it. A heartwarming tale!
"Wonder why he doesn't mention the Milwaukee Public Market? That seems to be working - come on over, Madison privilege-reekers and enjoy it."
They can't get there because there is no train.
Alders are trees.
For next year .. Just three hours away (former Cedar Rapids resident here). It's not a permanent market but it did spin off a small permanent version after the big flood in 2008.
Nothing warms the cockles of a critics heart more than the failure of the man in the arena.
"I see that "alders" has replaced "aldermen" and "alderwomen" in Madison, rather than going with "council members."
No, it used to alderlesbians, but that was too long.
Excellent beat-down, both for its force, coherence and use of logic and fact; and for the STYLE with which it uses image and metaphor. Soglin thrust at the Prof with his oh-so-clever figure of speech (“reeking”); the Prof effortlessly parried the attack, turned it back on Soglin (“let’s have a closer sniff”), left him in a humiliated heap, and waltzed away.
More like this!
PS: I thought Madison had already enjoyed quite recently an exciting and inclusive transformation of its downtown in a public-private partnership? Didn’t the BLM crew —with the implied consent of the city management—repurpose a lot of boring old businesses with broken windows, graffiti and empty shelves? Why not ask them to contribute their talents to this shiny new project?
I don't live in Madison so I'm not familiar with this, but what is a Public Market anyway? Is it some type of permanent structure for a year-round farmer's market? We have a nice farmer's market on the public square here in Alexandria (VA). Goes back to George Washington's time. No structure needed. Of course it doesn't get as cold here as it does in Madison.
Waah. Not enough minority farmers in Madison. Who the hell pumps millions of dollars INTO a farmer's market?
The "minority farmers" thing is a racket. The latest time we taxpayers were forced to shell out pseudo-minority Georgia farmers, more than 70% didn't have farms at all.
They lived in the city and pretended to be farmers. Still, hundreds of millions were wasted.
There were no consequences.
I buy fresh produce and fried-to-order pork rinds (keto) at a farm stand which a convenience store lets folks set up at a nearby gas station. Best damn okra and tomatoes, even in October. Local South Asian immigrants grow the okra, and the tomatoes come from greenhouses near the North Carolina border. The white guy selling and frying is allowed to park there free because it brings business to the Bangladeshi gas station owners.
The only color important to diversity is greenback.
Funny but terrifying. Are cheese curds diverse?
"Anyone who supports a project by claiming it helps the poor/BIPOC/LGBT/green cause automatically plays the white privilege card against anyway who dares question it."
The white "progressive" Davos elite are using "diversity, equity & inclusion" specifically because it is an inoculation against opposition to everything they wish to foist on the citizenry.
You cannot oppose their plans. Because if you do ... then you're a "racist."
They've forgotten that calling someone a "racist" is fighting words - a legal concept. You're legally allowed to punch someone in the mouth for calling you such a horrible word.
And I'd pay real money to see Ann Althouse belt Paul Soglin.
"Anyone who supports a project by claiming it helps the poor/BIPOC/LGBT/green cause automatically plays the white privilege card against anyway who dares question it."
The white "progressive" Davos elite are using "diversity, equity & inclusion" specifically because it is an inoculation against opposition to everything they wish to foist on the citizenry.
You cannot oppose their plans. Because if you do ... then you're a "racist."
They've forgotten that calling someone a "racist" is fighting words - a legal concept. You're legally allowed to punch someone in the mouth for calling you such a horrible word.
And I'd pay real money to see Ann Althouse belt Paul Soglin.
Getting in here late. Picking up on RigelDog at 6:56pm.
The Philly Reading Terminal Market does have ties to the railroad, old and current. It was adjacent or part of the Reading RR which became part of the regional railway. My father in the 1950’s would take the train home from there and often bring back meat for dinner from one of the many butchers there.
When I take the train into the city now I will often do the same, which is kind of nice. However, there are more lunch or related places than food vendors now. It is more touristy but still functional as a market for us locals.
Parade magazine had a write-up on Madison's radical mayor back in the 1970s. When I got to college one of my TA's had gone to UW. I asked her about Madison's radical mayor. She said she had had sex with him. Awkward silence.
Too Much Information. It's like a virus that keeps coming back.
Did they poll the folks they purported to include re location of the market? Do the vendors accept EBT?
Now is the time for merciless mockery.
Soglin says:
There is good reason why the analysis of the Public Market includes a focus on diversity, inclusiveness, and equity.
Yeah, because it's a garbage project that had no real justification nor probability of success, therefore its backers needed to take DIE in order to try to hide their failure
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