"[Nurse Ratched as played by Louise Fletcher ] was not — as Nurse Ratched was in the book — an embodiment of matriarchy and women's repression of men. She was horrible, cold, and controlling, but she also had some humanity. She was in a predicament trying to deal professionally with some very trying individuals. She made all the wrong decisions, but she was recognizably human.
The actors who played those patients did a fine job portraying seriously ill men and making them dramatically effective and immensely entertaining. We felt free to laugh at them a lot without getting the nagging guilty feeling that we weren't showing enough respect for the mentally ill. There's bonus entertainment in the fact that two of them are actors we came to love in bigger roles: Danny Devito and Christopher Lloyd.
'If they made this movie today, they'd ruin it with music,' I said halfway through. There was scene after scene with no music, other than the occasional record that a character in the movie played.... There was never any of that sort of movie music that instructs us on how to think and feels our emotions before we get a chance to feel them for ourselves. When Nurse Ratched puts a syrupy, soporific version of 'Charmaine' on the record player for the ritual of dispensing the psychotropic drugs, what we feel is in counterpoint to the music...."
[Louise Fletcher] was not — as Nurse Ratched was in the book — an embodiment of matriarchy and women's repression of men. She was horrible, cold, and controlling, but she also had some humanity.
Let's not skip over this. How was Louise Fletcher "horrible, cold, and controlling"?
That movie, and "The Snake Pit" did irreparable harm to the mentally ill. They resulted in support, by people who knew no better, for "deinstitutionalizing the psychotic who are half the "homeless."
She not only nailed that role, she set the standard for others to try to follow if playing a domineering, authoritarian woman with more than a little streak of evil.
She was quite a good actress. For some reason I recall her role in an old underrated movie called "Brainstorm", with Christopher Walken and Natalie Wood. It was the movie Natalie was filming when she was killed...or died accidentally. Do we know? Louise Fletcher played another leading, strong woman in this movie, though this time, she was the good, not the evil.
Sorry she died. Didn't know she was that old, but yeah she old in the 90s when she was on DS9. As for "Cuckoos nest" i loved this movie when I saw it in the early 80s and hated Nurse Rachet. i saw it again in 2010 or so, and changed mah mind. God it was awful.
Murphy is such dishonest, manipulative, whiney Jackass. And the in-your-face symbolism. Did you Get? Huh? Huh? And Rachet is shown in the worse way possible. She's allowed no humanity, because she's a symbol. Jack deserved an Oscar for making such a fake character almost likable.
Notice that we do NOT have movies like this anymore. No rebellious movies about the "System" being fucked up and crazy people being the true smart ones. Wonder why that is? Probably because the 60s rebels turned into the 21st century fat-cats who control everything.
alanc709 said... Is McMurphy more of an election denier than Hillary was?
Say what?
Hillary Clinton called on her supporters to accept the US election result on Wednesday, [Nov 9, 2016] as she delivered a concession speech in New York . . . .
“Donald Trump is going to be our president,” she said, speaking at the New Yorker hotel in Manhattan. “We owe him an open mind and a chance to lead.”
And I've always hated that whiney "The bitches are controlling us and ruining our lives" meme from the 50s and 60s. Blaming women for your own problems. Wasn't Freudism all about how your Mother was a controlling bitch who ruined your life? Or didn't allow you FREEDOM?
The lack of consumerism is an act of consumerism, the lack of diversity [dogma] (e.g. racism) is evidence of systemic diversity, or something to that effect in the age of Obamacares.
While Nurse Ratched may be her most famous role, to me she will always be remembered for her performance as Kai Winn, the Bajoran villain in THE BEST Star Trek* - Deep Space Nine.
"Hillary Clinton called on her supporters to accept the US election result on Wednesday, [Nov 9, 2016] as she delivered a concession speech in New York..."
who WAS the Real Villain in that movie/story? The nurse trying to take care of crazy folk? or The RAPIST/Con Artist/Fraud/Instigator that gets people killed?
While Nurse Ratched may be her most famous role, to me she will always be remembered for her performance as Kai Winn, the Bajoran villain in THE BEST Star Trek* - Deep Space Nine.
*Don't even bother arguing with me on this.
It amazes me that more Trekkies do not recognize what you & I see as so obvious -- DS9 was the best of the ST franchises.
@Roseanne
Never connected Louise Fletcher to the DS9 role before - she was brilliant.
And Kai Winn/Louise Fletcher was in all seven seasons. How her character evolves from an unpleasant & officious but ambitious character to a character whose ambition corrupts her absolutely is brilliantly done by the writers. This scene is a perfect example of how the Prophets reach out to give Kai Winn one more chance, a Rubicon she can refuse to cross, and, because of her ambition, she fails completely.
Greatest Oscar acceptance speech ever. Fletcher, whose parents were deaf, signed her speech as she spoke, with tears rolling down her face. Made everyone realize how incredible her portrayal of Ratched was.
It amazes me that more Trekkies do not recognize what you & I see as so obvious -- DS9 was the best of the ST franchises.
DS9 is the "dark and gritty" star trek, that's beloved by people who don't really like star trek. Its similar to people who don't like westerns love "mcCabe and Mrs. Miller" or "Dances with Wolves". Or people who don't like war movies Love "Casablanca".
The first two seasons of DS9, suck. THe rest are are uneven mixture of the good, the bad, and the ugly. WHen your best characters are "recurring guest stars" that show up in 30 out of 170 episodes or supporting characters in deep makeup like Quark and Odo, you gotta a problem.
Had forgotten about her acceptance speech at the Academy Awards; I do now vaguely remember finding it quite moving, back in those almost-forgotten days when I watched that sort of program on the broadcast networks, although I don't recall why.
The first two seasons of DS9, suck. THe rest are are uneven mixture of the good, the bad, and the ugly.
Yes, especially season one. But, I have watched and enjoyed all the other series up to Star Trek: Enterprise, and your memory that the other series didn't have clunker seasons and episodes is, to but it kindly, profoundly nostalgic. To put it not kindly, demented.
The last three seasons of Voyager are almost to an episode unwatchable. The producers have publicly admitted as much. Two of the main actors hated each other in real life and it shows on screen.
ST:Enterprise ran only four seasons as opposed to the scheduled seven, and for good reason.
ST:Next Generation really doesn't age well. It had its good episodes but many are unwatchable, and they came in just unpredictable ways. Remember the replacement of Gates McFadden in season two & then ---boom! --- she's back again. Remember what an awful character Wesley Crusher was and how the writers basically "killed" him off because of fan revolt?
And as for the original series, many episodes are so bad they're like parodies. "Brain, brain & brain! What is brain?!". Space hippies. The Nazi planet. The first season of ST was mostly done by Gene L. Coon instead of Gene Rodenberry, and Coon avoided so so many of the silly 1960's Free Love Man! tropes that Rodenberry so loved. I mean every time you hear the phrase "I guess man was just not made for paradise" on a ST episode, don't you just want to dig up Gene Rodenberry and burn the corpse?
As for the more recent "Woke" ST stuff, I have avoided it like the plague.
I remember reading Cuckoo Nest for the first time in 1968. I thought God had come right outa heaven to give me the skinny. I thought somebody was finally speaking my language.
I read the book at least 25 times over the following 30-40 years and couldn't get enough of it. Ditto Sometimes a Great Notion.
I reread it last year, probably due to a comment or post here. It was OK but not that good. I now have no idea why I was so ga-ga over it for so long.
Ditto the movie. Loved it in 77. Found it only mildly entertaining a year or 2 ago.
Notion, on the other hand, holds up very well for me. Both book and movie (Paul Newman and Henry fonda as Henry Stamper per et films)
I still think the movie is one of very few that really capture the book they come from.
I've never actually seen One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. But I do remember Louise Fletcher from her role as Kai Winn in Star Trek Deep Space Nine. She was a religious leader of a planet, that was very controlling and manipulative. Louise seemed to have a knack at playing unlikable characters.
"As for the more recent "Woke" ST stuff, I have avoided it like the plague."
Wise. I bailed on "Discovery" and established an account on Rotten Tomatoes for the sole purpose of venting about how gawd awful it was. DO give "Lower Decks" a try - best of the current batch. "Strange New Worlds" isn't too bad, I give it a B+.
Yes, Jack Nicholson's characters aren't as admirable as we thought they were back in the Seventies. Same thing for Five Easy Pieces and Carnal Knowledge, but at least in those movies, he was supposed to be an alienated anti-hero. It seems like we were meant to admire Randle McMurphy in Cuckoo's Nest.
What also hasn't aged well, IMHO: Michael Douglas picking up his Oscar for co-producing Cuckoo's Nest. There were a lot better pictures in the Seventies, and Douglas always seems to strike the wrong note in public.
The King of Marvin Gardens was interesting in that it made Nicholson play the mature, responsible brother, and left Bruce Dern playing the kind of sleazy jerk role Jack was playing in those days.
"and your memory that the other series didn't have clunker seasons and episodes is, to but it kindly, profoundly nostalgic. To put it not kindly, demented."
I said nothing about the "other series" so I'm not sure who is demented. It certainly isn't me. If you want to write how you like DS9 over other shows, don't drag me into it. Just write it.
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36 comments:
[Louise Fletcher] was not — as Nurse Ratched was in the book — an embodiment of matriarchy and women's repression of men. She was horrible, cold, and controlling, but she also had some humanity.
Let's not skip over this. How was Louise Fletcher "horrible, cold, and controlling"?
That movie, and "The Snake Pit" did irreparable harm to the mentally ill. They resulted in support, by people who knew no better, for "deinstitutionalizing the psychotic who are half the "homeless."
Nurse Ratched.
What a great name. It says so much.
How many movie characters are so well known by their name?
I can say Glenn Close and most people think Fatal Attraction. But who remembers her character’s name?
Here's the scene where Nurse Ratched keeps the men from watching the World Series game (and McMurphy is an election denier)...
Actually, according to the new official narrative, wouldn't the refusal to count late votes be "voter suppression" on the part of Nurse Ratched?
"Let's not skip over this. How was Louise Fletcher "horrible, cold, and controlling"?"
Thanks for prompting me to tweak the bracketed material.
Is McMurphy more of an election denier than Hillary was?
I have never seen the movie, but the clip reminded me of watching an exchange between Peter Doucy and KJP at a White House press briefing.
She not only nailed that role, she set the standard for others to try to follow if playing a domineering, authoritarian woman with more than a little streak of evil.
She was quite a good actress. For some reason I recall her role in an old underrated movie called "Brainstorm", with Christopher Walken and Natalie Wood. It was the movie Natalie was filming when she was killed...or died accidentally. Do we know? Louise Fletcher played another leading, strong woman in this movie, though this time, she was the good, not the evil.
Sorry she died. Didn't know she was that old, but yeah she old in the 90s when she was on DS9. As for "Cuckoos nest" i loved this movie when I saw it in the early 80s and hated Nurse Rachet. i saw it again in 2010 or so, and changed mah mind. God it was awful.
Murphy is such dishonest, manipulative, whiney Jackass. And the in-your-face symbolism. Did you Get? Huh? Huh? And Rachet is shown in the worse way possible. She's allowed no humanity, because she's a symbol. Jack deserved an Oscar for making such a fake character almost likable.
Notice that we do NOT have movies like this anymore. No rebellious movies about the "System" being fucked up and crazy people being the true smart ones. Wonder why that is? Probably because the 60s rebels turned into the 21st century fat-cats who control everything.
alanc709 said...
Is McMurphy more of an election denier than Hillary was?
Say what?
Hillary Clinton called on her supporters to accept the US election result on Wednesday, [Nov 9, 2016] as she delivered a concession speech in New York . . . .
“Donald Trump is going to be our president,” she said, speaking at the New Yorker hotel in Manhattan. “We owe him an open mind and a chance to lead.”
And I've always hated that whiney "The bitches are controlling us and ruining our lives" meme from the 50s and 60s. Blaming women for your own problems. Wasn't Freudism all about how your Mother was a controlling bitch who ruined your life? Or didn't allow you FREEDOM?
The lack of consumerism is an act of consumerism, the lack of diversity [dogma] (e.g. racism) is evidence of systemic diversity, or something to that effect in the age of Obamacares.
I was noticing last night that some Amazon Prime dramas are ruined by the music.
If they made the movie today, half the cast would be trans and the other half would be gay and black...
"Nurse Ratched.
What a great name. It says so much."
Very Dickensian...
While Nurse Ratched may be her most famous role, to me she will always be remembered for her performance as Kai Winn, the Bajoran villain in THE BEST Star Trek* - Deep Space Nine.
*Don't even bother arguing with me on this.
Never connected Louise Fletcher to the DS9 role before - she was brilliant.
"Hillary Clinton called on her supporters to accept the US election result on Wednesday, [Nov 9, 2016] as she delivered a concession speech in New York..."
After which, she proceeded with Plan B.
"It was the movie Natalie was filming when she was killed...or died accidentally. Do we know?"
Louise Fletcher killed Natalie Wood? Wow, she really was a bitch.
who WAS the Real Villain in that movie/story?
The nurse trying to take care of crazy folk?
or
The RAPIST/Con Artist/Fraud/Instigator that gets people killed?
@ALP
While Nurse Ratched may be her most famous role, to me she will always be remembered for her performance as Kai Winn, the Bajoran villain in THE BEST Star Trek* - Deep Space Nine.
*Don't even bother arguing with me on this.
It amazes me that more Trekkies do not recognize what you & I see as so obvious -- DS9 was the best of the ST franchises.
@Roseanne
Never connected Louise Fletcher to the DS9 role before - she was brilliant.
And Kai Winn/Louise Fletcher was in all seven seasons. How her character evolves from an unpleasant & officious but ambitious character to a character whose ambition corrupts her absolutely is brilliantly done by the writers. This scene is a perfect example of how the Prophets reach out to give Kai Winn one more chance, a Rubicon she can refuse to cross, and, because of her ambition, she fails completely.
Greatest Oscar acceptance speech ever. Fletcher, whose parents were deaf, signed her speech as she spoke, with tears rolling down her face. Made everyone realize how incredible her portrayal of Ratched was.
'Made everyone realize how incredible her portrayal of Ratched was.'
What does her parents being deaf have to do with her portrayal?
I fail to see the connection.
It amazes me that more Trekkies do not recognize what you & I see as so obvious -- DS9 was the best of the ST franchises.
DS9 is the "dark and gritty" star trek, that's beloved by people who don't really like star trek. Its similar to people who don't like westerns love "mcCabe and Mrs. Miller" or "Dances with Wolves". Or people who don't like war movies Love "Casablanca".
The first two seasons of DS9, suck. THe rest are are uneven mixture of the good, the bad, and the ugly. WHen your best characters are "recurring guest stars" that show up in 30 out of 170 episodes or supporting characters in deep makeup like Quark and Odo, you gotta a problem.
Had forgotten about her acceptance speech at the Academy Awards; I do now vaguely remember finding it quite moving, back in those almost-forgotten days when I watched that sort of program on the broadcast networks, although I don't recall why.
@rcocean,
The first two seasons of DS9, suck. THe rest are are uneven mixture of the good, the bad, and the ugly.
Yes, especially season one. But, I have watched and enjoyed all the other series up to Star Trek: Enterprise, and your memory that the other series didn't have clunker seasons and episodes is, to but it kindly, profoundly nostalgic. To put it not kindly, demented.
The last three seasons of Voyager are almost to an episode unwatchable. The producers have publicly admitted as much. Two of the main actors hated each other in real life and it shows on screen.
ST:Enterprise ran only four seasons as opposed to the scheduled seven, and for good reason.
ST:Next Generation really doesn't age well. It had its good episodes but many are unwatchable, and they came in just unpredictable ways. Remember the replacement of Gates McFadden in season two & then ---boom! --- she's back again. Remember what an awful character Wesley Crusher was and how the writers basically "killed" him off because of fan revolt?
And as for the original series, many episodes are so bad they're like parodies. "Brain, brain & brain! What is brain?!". Space hippies. The Nazi planet. The first season of ST was mostly done by Gene L. Coon instead of Gene Rodenberry, and Coon avoided so so many of the silly 1960's Free Love Man! tropes that Rodenberry so loved. I mean every time you hear the phrase "I guess man was just not made for paradise" on a ST episode, don't you just want to dig up Gene Rodenberry and burn the corpse?
As for the more recent "Woke" ST stuff, I have avoided it like the plague.
I remember reading Cuckoo Nest for the first time in 1968. I thought God had come right outa heaven to give me the skinny. I thought somebody was finally speaking my language.
I read the book at least 25 times over the following 30-40 years and couldn't get enough of it. Ditto Sometimes a Great Notion.
I reread it last year, probably due to a comment or post here. It was OK but not that good. I now have no idea why I was so ga-ga over it for so long.
Ditto the movie. Loved it in 77. Found it only mildly entertaining a year or 2 ago.
Notion, on the other hand, holds up very well for me. Both book and movie (Paul Newman and Henry fonda as Henry Stamper per et films)
I still think the movie is one of very few that really capture the book they come from.
John stop fascism vote republican Henry
Rcocean,
Just rewatched McCabe last week for the 10th time or so. Is it really a western?
I'd never thought of it as one.
For whatever that's worth.
John stop fascism vote republican Henry
Rcocean,
Just rewatched McCabe last week for the 10th time or so. Is it really a western?
I'd never thought of it as one.
For whatever that's worth.
John stop fascism vote republican Henry
I've never actually seen One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. But I do remember Louise Fletcher from her role as Kai Winn in Star Trek Deep Space Nine. She was a religious leader of a planet, that was very controlling and manipulative. Louise seemed to have a knack at playing unlikable characters.
Reading this I mis-remembered ... confusing Nurse Ratched with Hot Lips Houlihan.
YoungHegelian:
"As for the more recent "Woke" ST stuff, I have avoided it like the plague."
Wise. I bailed on "Discovery" and established an account on Rotten Tomatoes for the sole purpose of venting about how gawd awful it was. DO give "Lower Decks" a try - best of the current batch. "Strange New Worlds" isn't too bad, I give it a B+.
Yes, Jack Nicholson's characters aren't as admirable as we thought they were back in the Seventies. Same thing for Five Easy Pieces and Carnal Knowledge, but at least in those movies, he was supposed to be an alienated anti-hero. It seems like we were meant to admire Randle McMurphy in Cuckoo's Nest.
What also hasn't aged well, IMHO: Michael Douglas picking up his Oscar for co-producing Cuckoo's Nest. There were a lot better pictures in the Seventies, and Douglas always seems to strike the wrong note in public.
The King of Marvin Gardens was interesting in that it made Nicholson play the mature, responsible brother, and left Bruce Dern playing the kind of sleazy jerk role Jack was playing in those days.
"Has anyone ever won an Oscar for showing so little expression?"
Dustin Hoffman, “Rain Man”.
Has anyone ever won an Oscar for showing so little expression? I wrote that on Christmas Day in 2006.
I take it you've never seen Dustin Hoffman's Rain Man performance.
YoungHegelian said...
ST:Next Generation really doesn't age well. It had its good episodes but many are unwatchable..
Re STNG: Hey, Picard, there are five lights.
That's all I have to say about that.
"and your memory that the other series didn't have clunker seasons and episodes is, to but it kindly, profoundly nostalgic. To put it not kindly, demented."
I said nothing about the "other series" so I'm not sure who is demented. It certainly isn't me. If you want to write how you like DS9 over other shows, don't drag me into it. Just write it.
Adios.
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