May 20, 2022

"It has often been suggested that as [Bob] Dylan assembled his distinctive persona while climbing to international fame, he borrowed some of it, including a certain attitude and a caustic streak..."

"... from [Bob] Neuwirth. 'The whole hipster shuck and jive — that was pure Neuwirth,' Bob Spitz wrote in 'Dylan: A Biography' (1989). 'So were the deadly put-downs, the wipeout grins and innuendos. Neuwirth had mastered those little twists long before Bob Dylan made them famous and conveyed them to his best friend with altruistic grace.' Mr. Neuwirth, Mr. Spitz suggested, could have ridden those same qualities to Dylanesque fame. 'Bobby Neuwirth was the Bob Most Likely to Succeed,' he wrote, 'a wellspring of enormous potential. He possessed all the elements, except for one — nerve.' Mr. Dylan, in his book 'Chronicles: Volume One' (2004), had his own description of Mr. Neuwirth: 'Like Kerouac had immortalized Neal Cassady in ‘On the Road,’ somebody should have immortalized Neuwirth. He was that kind of character. He could talk to anybody until they felt like all their intelligence was gone. With his tongue, he ripped and slashed and could make anybody uneasy, also could talk his way out of anything. Nobody knew what to make of him.'"

From "Bob Neuwirth, Colorful Figure in Dylan’s Circle, Dies at 82/He was a recording artist and songwriter himself, but he also played pivotal roles in the careers of Bob Dylan and Janis Joplin" (NYT). 

Neuwirth, we're told, taught Janis Joplin the Kris Kristofferson song "Me & Bobby McGee," and he co-wrote "Mercedes Benz" with her. 

ADDED: Spitz's use of the words "hipster shuck and jive" undercuts the argument that Neuwirth created this style of personal presentation. This obituary shows the New York Times carrying on the long tradition of making black people invisible.

From the Wikipedia article "Shuckin' and jivin'":

Shuckin' and jivin' (or shucking and jiving) is African-American slang for joking and acting evasively in the presence of an authoritative figure. It usually involves clever lies and impromptu storytelling, to one-up an opponent or avoid punishment.... 

According to the linguist Barbara Ann Kipfer, the origins of the phrase may be traced to when "black slaves sang and shouted gleefully during corn-shucking season, and this behavior, along with lying and teasing, became a part of the protective and evasive behavior normally adopted toward white people."... 

In 2008, New York attorney general Andrew Cuomo said of the Democratic Party candidate Barack Obama, who was running against Hillary Clinton, the candidate Cuomo supported: "You can't shuck and jive at a press conference." Cuomo received criticism from some for his use of the phrase. Roland Martin of CNN said that "'Shucking and jiving' have long been words used as a negative assessment of African Americans, along the lines of a 'foot-shufflin' Negro.'"

From the Wikipedia article "Hipster (1940s subculture)"

In 1938, the word hepster was used by bandleader Cab Calloway in the title of his dictionary, Cab Calloway's Cat-ologue: A "Hepster's" Dictionary, which defines hep cat as "a guy who knows all the answers, understands jive"... 

In 1944, pianist Harry Gibson modified hepcat to hipster in his short glossary "For Characters Who Don't Dig Jive Talk".... Initially, hipsters were usually middle-class European American youths seeking to emulate the lifestyle of the largely African-American jazz musicians they followed....

In The Jazz Scene (1959), the British historian and social theorist Eric Hobsbawm... described hipster language—i.e., "jive-talk or hipster-talk"—as "an argot or cant designed to set the group apart from outsiders"....

The hipster subculture rapidly expanded, and after World War II, a burgeoning literary scene grew up around it. In 1957, the American writer and adventurer Jack Kerouac described hipsters as "rising and roaming America, bumming and hitchhiking everywhere [as] characters of a special spirituality." Toward the beginning of his poem Howl, the Jewish-American Beatnik poet Allen Ginsberg mentioned "angelheaded hipsters burning for the ancient heavenly connection to the starry dynamo in the machinery of night". In his 1957 essay The White Negro, the American novelist and journalist Norman Mailer characterized hipsters as American existentialists, living a life surrounded by death—annihilated by the atomic war or strangled by social conformity—and electing instead to "divorce [themselves] from society, to exist without roots, to set out on that uncharted journey into the rebellious imperatives of the self".

21 comments:

rhhardin said...

He treated his wife Joan Baez like shit.

mezzrow said...

RIP Bob Neuwirth.

I suggest this gentleman as an influence as well. Perhaps to Neuwirth, if not Dylan. The ultimate white man shuck and jive.

important detail: The scandal of Buckley's death, partially attributed to the seizure of his cabaret card, helped lead to the removal of authority over cabaret cards from the police to the Licensing Department.[17]

Jazzers knew all these things back in the 50s.

Lord Richard Buckley (born Richard Myrle Buckley; April 5, 1906 – November 12, 1960) was an American stand-up comedian and recording artist,[1] who in the 1940s and 1950s created a character that was, according to The New York Times, "an unlikely persona ... part English royalty, part Dizzy Gillespie."[2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Buckley

gilbar said...

Someone Has to Post it:
Oh Stewardess, i speak Jive

gilbar said...

In 1957, the American writer and adventurer Jack Kerouac described hipsters
In his 1957 essay The White Negro, the American novelist and journalist Norman Mailer characterized hipsters as American existentialists, living a life surrounded by death—annihilated by the atomic war or strangled by social conformity—and electing instead to "divorce [themselves] from society

Of Course the Joke was: '57 represented the high point of society; Literally all downhill from there

m stone said...

"This obituary shows the New York Times carrying on the long tradition of making black people invisible."

Sometimes you want to be invisible, like when you're in a jam and the man is after you, or your "profession" is illegal, or if you're in a death camp and need to communicate among fellow prisoners.

It's argot or code that people develop for certain situations that need secrecy. Jive makes little sense to some cultures but is an identity language, rich in meaning to its speakers. Yiddish came about for that reason as has the lingo of the drug culture. Know the code, know the meaning.

m

rcocean said...

Yeah, I always found that annoying. WHite americans pretending to be Negroes. 50s/60s TV/Movies are full of white "Jive turkeys" trying to "Cool" and "Hip". And Wikipedia is so weird - If Ginsberg is a "Jewish American", why isn't Mailer labeled as one?

Kerouac like many of the "Hipsters" battled alcohol/drug problems and had mental issues. I'm glad this guy lived to be 82, jack died at 47 when his drinking caused internal bleeding.

Joe Smith said...

'Neuwirth, we're told, taught Janis Joplin the Kris Kristofferson song "Me & Bobby McGee," and he co-wrote "Mercedes Benz" with her. '

'Bobby McGee,' along with Lennon's 'Imagine,' is the worst piece of garbage every written and/or performed.

'Mercedes Benz' is pretty close.

For those atrocities alone the guy should burn in hell...

Heartless Aztec said...

Ever since I saw "Dont Look Back" I thought that the two Bobs were well practiced assholes during that time period. What civilian would willingly put up with those two for longer than a few minutes before begging off?

mikee said...

I don't know who Bob Neuwirth is. So my brain replaced him with Bob Newhart.
Still kinda works,I think.

BudBrown said...

Dialing For Dollars is trying to find Meeeeee....

Richard Aubrey said...

Never spent a dime on Joplin or Dylan. If, while spinning the radio dial, I encountered one or the other, I kept going.
Never figured the appeal unless it was the background, the persona, the "Scene", the Village vibes..... Can't have been the music.

pacwest said...

Can't have been the music.

Certainly true for Dylan. Not quite so much Joplin, but then had she lived longer and followed Dylan's career arc you might be right about her too.

Josephbleau said...

"Bobby McGee,' along with Lennon's 'Imagine,' is the worst piece of garbage every written and/or performed. 'Mercedes Benz' is pretty close."

You have to look at those songs as meta-parody, parody of a parody. It's even funnier when the artist is not aware that S/he is making a parody, like Lennon. Even funnier when someone does a serious cover, like Julian Ono. There is a lot of meta-parody in country music, like Steve Goodman. Its an entertaining Genre.

Mutaman said...

Lots of the Posters ( pacwest, Richard Aubrey, Joe Smith) are like the guy driving his car down Broadway blasting bad music on the radio. Its like they want to tell the whole world-"I have no taste".
Wonder what music these poor souls listen too?

Mutaman said...

In the incredible opening scene to Don't Look Back where Dylan is displaying and discarding cue cards containng words and phrases from the lyrics to "Subterranean Homesick Blues" (including intentional misspellings and puns), I'm pretty sure that's Neuwirth in the background having a discussion with Alan Ginsberg.
The precursor for the modern music video.

Dig Yourself!

Mutaman said...

"This obituary shows the New York Times carrying on the long tradition of making black people invisible."

Whenever I want to hear about the effect of our society on black people, Ann Althouse is my go to person.

Mutaman said...

rhhardin said...

"He treated his wife Joan Baez like shit."

I think the only time Baez was ever married was to a fellow named David Harris. What does he have to do with any of this?

Richard Aubrey said...

mutaman. What's it to you? For grins, some of the folk stuff. Baroque. Sacred harp. Old hymns. Some C&W. renaissance. But the kind of things Dylan and Joplin were doing seemed painful. But some of the rock of the time. Some Lettermen. It's not the music genre, it was the sound coming out of the radio. I read a couple of Dylan's liner notes on LPs. Pretentious.
It was a jumping time and I was involved in some activities which included "freedom music". That was usually done folk style.

Mutaman said...

Nuff said.

Mutaman said...

No that anyone gives a shit about Dylan's liner notes-(where's the beat?)
but here's some of the less "pretentious" ones:

on the brooklyn bridge
he was cockeyed
an' stood on the edge
there was a priest talkin' to him
i was shiftin' myself around
so i could see from all sides
in an' out of stretched necks
an' things
cops held people back
the lady in back of me
burst into my groin
"sick sick some are so sick"
like a circus trapeze act
"oh i hope he don't do it"
he was on the other side of the railin'
both eyes fiery wide
wet with sweat
the mouth of a shark
rolled up soiled sleeves
his arms were thick an' tattooed
an' he wore a silver watch
i could tell at a glance
he was uselessly lonely
i couldn't stay an' look at him
i couldn't stay an' look at him
because i suddenly realized that
deep in my heart
i really wanted
t' see him jump

Josephbleau said...

"Nuff said."

Is that you Stan Lee?