Althouse: "Russia... said it was ready to set a meeting between President Vladimir V. Putin and President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine once a draft peace agreement between Ukraine and Russia was ready."

March 29, 2022

"Russia... said it was ready to set a meeting between President Vladimir V. Putin and President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine once a draft peace agreement between Ukraine and Russia was ready."

The NYT reports, in "Live Updates: As Talks Progress, Russia Says It Will Reduce Attacks in Northern Ukraine/The gains in negotiations came as Ukrainian troops appeared to push back Russian forces around Kyiv. Russia said a meeting between President Vladimir V. Putin and President Volodymyr Zelensky could occur once a draft peace agreement was ready."

79 comments:

RideSpaceMountain said...: "President Zelensky, I have an opinion on this matter. From my way of thinking, this defense is a serious misallocation of valuable military resources. It seems to me that God gave me a special gift, made me a fine instrument of manslaughter. What I mean by that, Mr. President, is if you was to put me and this here prop gun anywhere up to and including 10 yards of Vladimir Putin with a loaded chamber instead of a squib? Pack your bags vatniks, war's over."

- Alec Baldwin; 3/29/22, 12:26 PM
Beasts of England said...: No more oil and inflation scapegoats for Droolin’ Joe, I guess…; 3/29/22, 12:35 PM
Mutaman said...: Kyiv mayor Klitschko asked about Tucker Carlson, Candace Owens and others on the American Right: “You are part of this invasion. Blood is on your hands too.”; 3/29/22, 12:42 PM
cubanbob said...: Maybe it's wishful thinking but I suspect this war will be over by the end of summer. The Russian offensive in Western Ukraine seems to have stalled out and it appears they are focusing on the Black Sea ports which is where they are having more success. Both sides will drag things out in order to get an advantage before they finally settle. Post war will the Ukranians kick out the ethnic Russians out of Ukraine and will the Russians kick out the ethnic Ukrainians out of the east Ukraine they occupy? Will the EU accept Ukraine in and help rebuild the country in with a sort of Marshall Plan? Will the Russians finally learn they need a functioning economy and not a kleptocracy in order to become a strong and prosperous country?; 3/29/22, 1:00 PM
n.n said...: 8 years since the Biden/Maidan/Slavic Spring. Two years with Zelensky in power. Kiev may finally reconcile and recall its military and paramilitary forces to end the war in Ukraine. Better late than never. Oh, and close the Wuhan-style biolabs in order to mitigate the progress of Covid-X.; 3/29/22, 1:08 PM
Candide said...: Russia can safely announce any peace initiative, because they know that Kiev rulers will do something to violate it within few hours, so the war will continue and more innocent people will die.; 3/29/22, 1:13 PM
jaydub said...: The Ruskies are probably redeploying around Kyiv and reinforcing while playing for time. They haven't been bled enough to be looking for a peace deal, but could be if the stalemate lasts another month or so. A sham temporary ceasefire would help them to reduce the number of reinforcements they need because every personnel casualty avoided now is one fewer replacement they need to train for the next offensive. Every tank not destroyed now is one fewer they have to scrounge up later. On the other hand an extended stalemate without a ceasefire would give the Nato countries a little more time to find some alternatives to Russian oil and gas and the Ukrainians time to extract some more blood. Hard to say who benefits more from a ceasefire, but it's probably Putin, which may be reason enough for Zelensky to avoid one unless he is able to negotiate a more successful position than he is likely to earn on the battlefield.; 3/29/22, 1:32 PM
Mike Sylwester said...: 1) Ukraine promised never to join NATO

2) Ukraine recognizes the loss of Crimea to Russia

3) Ukraine agrees to a referendum in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions

=======

NATO would not incorporate Ukraine anyway.

In the long run, Ukraine will be better off without Crimea, Donetsk and Luhansk. The remnant Ukraine's population will be much more Ukrainian.

Ukraine never again will have to deal with a situation where a pro-Russian politician is elected President.

=======

Russia will not compensate Ukraine for damages. However, other countries will provide much financial aid.; 3/29/22, 1:39 PM
Mike (MJB Wolf) said...: Watch out, Voldoymyr, they just tried to poison the last group they met with.; 3/29/22, 1:53 PM
Mike Sylwester said...: A settlement will not be a political victory for Putin.

1) NATO was not going to incorporate Ukraine anyway.

2) Crimea already was well incorporated into Russia.

3) The Donetsk and Luhansk regions are trivial additions to Russia.

The invasion cost Russia much more that it gained for Russia.

=======

The political opposition to Putin will be energized. He never will be re-elected.

My wife watches hours and hours of Facebook videos about the war. There are hundreds of home-made Facebook videos where Russian-speakers -- many living in Ukraine -- denounce the war.

I no longer have a Facebook account, but sometimes I watch such videos over my wife's shoulder. Last night we watched a Ukrainian retired woman deliver a devastating denunciation. She had done a lot of research about the situation since the Maidan demonstrations in 2014. She was very intelligent and well prepared, and she spoke perfect Russian. Her denunciation was absolutely devastating.

I don't remember the numbers, but her video had more than 100,000 views and tens of thousands of comments and shares on Facebook. I browsed through the comments, and all that I saw were written in Russian and praised her video.

Perhaps many of those views, comments and shares were Russians living in Ukraine or elsewhere outside of Russia. However, I must think that her video and the many other videos are being watched by hundreds of thousands of Russians inside Russia itself.

Even if the Russian Government is blocking such videos successfully now, such blocking will have to end eventually after the war ends. Eventually, for many years to come, Russians will be able to watch such videos and will learn what Russia did to Ukraine.; 3/29/22, 2:06 PM
Yancey Ward said...: The blood, Mutaman, is on the hands of Putin and all those Ukrainian and western officials who have spent the last 30 years creating a situation where Nato is right on the Russian border. That isn't Tucker Carlsen, by the way- that is people like Obama, Biden, and the Bushes. There were multiple opportunities to forge a lasting agreement on these issues in the last 20 years, and seemingly no one in the West thought to do anything but encourage exactly what has transpired. The incompetence of the Biden Administration is greatly responsible for this- an administration you voted for, you dumb fuck.; 3/29/22, 2:25 PM
Leland said...: Time for Biden to give his Reagenesque joke about outlawing Russia and that we begin bombing in 5 minutes.; 3/29/22, 2:35 PM
Mike Sylwester said...: I predicted that Russia would NOT invade Ukraine. I was absolutely wrong about that.

I condemn the invasion absolutely. I never have defended it at all.

=======

However, I still say that some Ukrainians should share some blame for this situation.

When Viktor Yanukovych won the Presidential election in 2013, his election should have been accepted. He should have been allowed to govern in a normal manner. His opponents should have behaved like a "loyal opposition" and should have restricted their actions to trying to vote him out of office in the next election.

Instead, they conducted street demonstrations in Kiyv for three months. Those demonstrations were much more disruptive than our Occupy Wall Street demonstrations in New York City or the truckers' demonstration in Ottawa.

Furthermore, the Ukrainian Deep State -- which wanted Ukraine to join the European Union and NATO -- undermined President Yanukovych relentlessly.

The US Government should not have encouraged -- and also guided and funded? -- this Ukrainian foolishness.

=======

Allegedly, Yanukovych was corrupt and was a puppet of the Russian Government.

Those allegations were rich!

Ukraine's major natural-gas industry had to hire Vice President Biden's son for a no-show job that paid $85,000 a month -- because Vice President Biden was the US Government's "point man on Ukraine".

Vice President Biden ordered the Ukrainian President to fire the Ukrainian Attorney General within two hours -- and so then that President obediently did so within two hours.

So, Yanukovych was the only corrupt politician in this story?

So, Yanukovych was the only puppet of a foreign government in this story?

======

Anyway, Ukraine's ethnic-Russian population -- which had voted for Yanukovych overwhelmingly -- decided for good reason that it wanted to secede from Ukraine and to join Russia.

That -- a referendum where the vote was overwhelmingly to secede -- is how Crimea became part of Russia. It did not happen that Crimea became part of Russia because of some "Russian invasion".

Referendums should have been conducted also in Donetsk and Luhansk regions.

If the votes of ethnic-Russians in Ukraine are not respected, then ethnic-Russians have good reason to vote to secede from Ukraine and to join Russia.; 3/29/22, 2:37 PM
Narayanan said...: has Elon Musk deployed StarLink over Russia?
what happens if/when done?; 3/29/22, 2:38 PM
Browndog said...: Biden refuses to pick up the phone and talk to Putin. Every other "leader" has.

White House still refuses to release anything from Biden/Xi calls.

Watch out, Voldoymyr, they just tried to poison the last group they met with.

Fake news.; 3/29/22, 2:44 PM
Dave Begley said...: Have Iran represent Ukraine at the bargaining table.; 3/29/22, 2:48 PM
Gravel said...: Blogger Mutaman said...
Kyiv mayor Klitschko asked about Tucker Carlson, Candace Owens and others on the American Right: “You are part of this invasion. Blood is on your hands too.”

It was the boxer, who is the mayor's brother, who made that fool statement. And he was saying that they were too dovish, encouraging Putin's aggression. IF anyone encouraged Putin's belligerence it was the fool that said it would be a "minor incursion".; 3/29/22, 2:54 PM
Gravel said...: Narayanan - starlink is not in geosynchronous orbit. It's a "constellation" of satellites in low earth orbit that are constantly moving. So yes, it's a near certainty that some of his satellites traverse over Russia. He doesn't have to sell them the receiver equipment, and I believe he has the ability to enable/disable that equipment using geofencing but I don't know that for a fact.; 3/29/22, 2:58 PM
Narr said...: Narayanan asks about Starlink. Take a look at Strategypage articles of recent date--commms has been the decisive factor apparently, and Starlink is mentioned. The Ukes, even w/o NATO help, outfoxed the Russians in all aspects.

Also, the Javelin apparently has its own usable-without-the-ordnance NOD, which has helped the Ukrainians dominate at night. It reminds me of the Red Army's experience with US Sherman tanks, which came complete with a free-standing generator and extra radio set--which they promptly used to improve their supply and resupply in those mobile formations.

The modern Russian stuff is well behind the curve, it seems.; 3/29/22, 3:02 PM
Jim at said...: Kyiv mayor Klitschko asked about Tucker Carlson, Candace Owens and others on the American Right: “You are part of this invasion. Blood is on your hands too.”

Nice try, asshole, but the invasion occurred under your president. Not ours.

Go wash your hands. See if it comes off.; 3/29/22, 3:09 PM
Browndog said...: Kyiv mayor Klitschko is on video meeting John McCain and Lindsey Graham in Kyiv 2015 along with members of AZOV Brigade just prior to the CIA color revolution. John and Lindsey promised full "American support".

US/Ukrainian corruption runs deep.

Putin had a legitimate beef. Notice I said had.; 3/29/22, 3:26 PM
MikeR said...: "as Ukrainian troops appeared to push back Russian forces around Kyiv." Uh, yeah, that's true. But it's also true that Mariupol is also completely conquered, with Azon Battalion inside. And the eastern sections are (slowly) being overrun. Russia has not really tried to enter Kyiv. They have basically just tied up that part of the army over there.; 3/29/22, 3:28 PM
Michael K said...: The blood, Mutaman, is on the hands of Putin and all those Ukrainian and western officials who have spent the last 30 years creating a situation where Nato is right on the Russian border. That isn't Tucker Carlsen, by the way- that is people like Obama, Biden, and the Bushes.

A good essay on how we got here. It goes back to the 1990s.

It didn’t have to be this way. I am reminded of a quote from Condoleezza Rice about the morning of 9/11. She knew that U.S. forces going to DEFCON-3 would trigger a similar escalation by Russia so she called President Putin and told him our military would be going on high alert. He told her that he knew and that he had ordered his forces to stand down. Then he asked if there was anything he could do to help. Rice recounted that she had a moment of reflection: “The Cold War really is over.” But the choices made in the aftermath of that day by people like her unleashed a destructive zeitgeist in Washington foreign policy that has led us to this point where the specter of nuclear war now hangs in the air as it did during the tensest moments of the Cold War.; 3/29/22, 3:30 PM
Jupiter said...: If I were Zelensky, I'd make that a Zoom meeting. Using Tor.; 3/29/22, 3:35 PM
The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...: "Kyiv mayor Klitschko asked about Tucker Carlson, Candace Owens and others on the American Right: “You are part of this invasion. Blood is on your hands too.”"

Cracker, please. Biden funded it with his energy policy, then gave tacit permission. To say nothing of the FSB's compendium of Biden Ukrainian Corruption. Everyone who voted Democrat voted to let this happen. No amount of righteous wailing is going to cover that fact.; 3/29/22, 3:39 PM
Chris Lopes said...: "cubanbob said...
Maybe it's wishful thinking but I suspect this war will be over by the end of summer. "

I don't think Russia can afford to have this war last until the beginning of summer. I know their economy (and pretty much everyone else's) can't.; 3/29/22, 3:43 PM
DanTheMan said...: >>Russia will not compensate Ukraine for damages. However, other countries will provide much financial aid.

And Clan Biden and the Clinton Foundation will be there to "help". For a modest fee, of course.; 3/29/22, 3:56 PM
Mutaman said...: Yancey Ward said...

" The blood, Mutaman, is on the hands of Putin and all those Ukrainian and western officials who have spent the last 30 years creating a situation where Nato is right on the Russian border. '

Take it up with Klitschko, Sparky.; 3/29/22, 4:07 PM
Mutaman said...: Blogger Gravel said...
"It was the boxer, who is the mayor's brother, who made that fool statement."

Actually not only were Wladimir Klitschko and Vitali Klitschko both former "boxers". they are both former heavyweight champions of the world. (40 heavyweight title fights between them).
But I guess they didn't teach you that at Trump university.; 3/29/22, 4:12 PM
Mutaman said...: Yancey Ward

"you dumb fuck"

Coming from an uneducated,Know Nothing Cracker, I take that as a compliment. .; 3/29/22, 4:25 PM
Jaq said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 3/29/22, 4:26 PM
Jaq said...: Hilary already explained that Donald Trump greenlighted this incursion. How much more do you people need?; 3/29/22, 4:27 PM
Gravel said...: "Wladimir Klitschko, the former boxing champion whose brother Vitali is mayor of Kyiv, made the comments during an appearance on "Eric Bolling The Balance" on Monday." Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time.; 3/29/22, 4:34 PM
Ampersand said...: A treaty is a tactical device by which one country (sometimes known as the mark, the gull, the sucker, the chump, etc.) acquires the moral right to credibly object when the treaty is broken by the other nation. The other nation has of courses used the treaty to position itself for a propitious breach of the treaty.; 3/29/22, 4:39 PM
Jaq said...: One side says that the Ukrainians are out of gas, 60,000 troops frozen in a 'cauldron' and cut off from resupply, and the 20,000 strong Azov Battalion has been crushed, and 200,000 Russians have defeated 600,000 Ukrainians and it's all over but the shouting. The other side says Russia has been humiliated and is desperate for a way out. All I have is Twitter, so I have no idea. Lies in wartime are like snowflakes in a blizzard.; 3/29/22, 4:42 PM
Leland said...: To expand a bit on Gravel's response on Starlink. Most (75%) of the Starlink constellation flies at an orbital inclination of 53.2 degrees or less. You see inclination, it's the angle N/S from the equatorial plane, but it has another advantage of essentially pointing to the highest latitude the satellite will fly, thus 53.2. Fortunately for Ukraine, all of its country lays below 53 degrees latitude. Comparatively, Moscow sits at a latitude of 55.4.

However, because the area of the sphere closer to the poll is relatively smaller, you don't need as many satellites to cover it. Over a thousand Starlink satellites will fly to 70 degrees or higher.; 3/29/22, 4:48 PM
John henry said...: Putting an American (Natalie jaresko) in as ukrAian minister of finance may have been good for the grifters. It didn't do Ukraine or regular Ukrainian people any good.

We apparently tried but failed to get her into the Ukrainian presidency. Thank God for small favors.; 3/29/22, 5:04 PM
Howard said...: We all saw Trump greenlight the invasion after Putin moved into the disreputed territories. Then a few days ago, we witnessed Trump encouraged Putin to use Nukes.

It's like the Netflix series "Bad Vegan". Trump keeps gaslighting you people just like conman Anthony Strangis got his wife, Sarma Melngailis convinced her to betray her business by stealing money from her restaurant, the employees and investors to fund her husbands bigshot gambling lifestyle. Anthony is a fat fuck fake tough guy big talking control freak. And you people are the idiot bottle blonde convinced there's a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow as long as you keep making the wire transfers.; 3/29/22, 5:15 PM
narciso said...: time machine he said,

klitchko washes out for his interests, someone should watch out for ours, ya think

https://therecount.com/watch/ukrainian-president-zelenskyy-pushes-for/2645880391

some people cannot see what is right in front of their eyes; 3/29/22, 5:59 PM
effinayright said...: Narr said...

The modern Russian stuff is well behind the curve, it seems.
**************

I predict that the pickles soaking in brine in Ukrainian bathtubs they have liberated will not yet be edible when the Russkis are forced to withdraw.; 3/29/22, 6:01 PM
StephenFearby said...: Daily Mail

Is Kyiv taking the fight to Putin as his invasion stalls? Suspected arms depot in western Russia is destroyed 'by Ukrainian missile' sparking a blast seen from across the border

Footage emerged of a huge explosion in Russia, a mere 12 miles from Ukraine

The blast is thought to have destroyed an arms depot in a village near Belgorod

There are reports the suspected arms depot was hit by a Ukrainian missile

Ukrainian officials have not yet confirmed the strike - but this would represent just the second Ukrainian attack on Russian territory since the war began

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10665295/Suspected-arms-depot-western-Russia-destroyed-Ukrainian-missile.html

Belgorod is quite near to the much bombarded Ukrainian city of Kharkiv.

MARCH 29, 2022
Is Russia Punishing Kharkiv for Resisting? “Brutal Assault” Reduces Homes & Schools to Rubble

'...[Guardian Reporter] Graham-Harrison describes how the Russian military is “pummeling” civilian neighborhoods because they have not yet been able to take over Kharkiv.'

https://www.democracynow.org/2022/3/29/russia_ukraine_turkey_peace_talks

So, what comes around goes around. Except in this case the Ukrainians were polite enough not to target a city.; 3/29/22, 6:21 PM
Rusty said...: Mutaman said...
"But I guess they didn't teach you that at Trump university."
You were doing well until that wise crack.
Mutaman. Never to be taken seriously again. Have you met Howard?; 3/29/22, 6:46 PM
Mary Beth said...: If he keeps the warmongering up long enough, maybe Putin can cadger himself a Nobel Peace prize for just talking about peace. Like Yassar Arafat did.; 3/29/22, 6:48 PM
Drago said...: Howard: "We all saw Trump greenlight the invasion ....."

Yes ladies and gentlemen, they really, really, really are going to run with this narrative that literally only appeals to the 5% of the most dead ender-y Dead Enders you ever saw.

Feel free to sit back, point at them in amazement, and ponder what it takes to be that much of an NPC automaton.; 3/29/22, 7:20 PM
Chris Lopes said...: "Like Yassar Arafat did."

He'd have to develop a taste for young boys first."; 3/29/22, 7:21 PM
gilbar said...: okay, so resident Biden said...
"You’re going to see when you’re there – some of you have been there – you’re going to see women, young people, standing in the middle, in front of a damn tank, saying, ‘I’m not leaving,'"

And people were like; "is that crazy coot saying that we ALREADY HAVE troops in the Ukraine?"

And the Admin was all "No! resident Biden NEVER said that!! You misheard!!!"

And THEN.. In trying to further clean up his gaffe, Biden told reporters during a press conference Monday that he was "talking about helping train the Ukrainian troops that are in Poland," another measure U.S. officials had previously ruled out.

And people were like; "is that crazy coot saying that we ALREADY training Ukrainian troops?"

And the Admin was all "No! resident Biden NEVER said that!! You misheard!!!

So.. We can take it as a given, that We ARE Training Ukrainians, IN Ukrain
And/Or
Our resident Biden is a senile, brain damaged, space case; suffering from dementia; 3/29/22, 7:22 PM
gilbar said...: Howard said...
We all saw Trump greenlight the invasion after Putin moved into the disreputed territories. Then a few days ago, we witnessed Trump encouraged Putin to use Nukes.

Howard, a standard question to access Brain function; is to ask:
Who is the President of the United States?

You should see a doctor, seriously; 3/29/22, 7:25 PM
Bob Boyd said...: Trump should step in and broker a peace deal on his own. Invite them to play a couple rounds of golf with him Mara Lago.
Tell them, stop blowing things up in Ukraine and explode some heads in the good ol' USA instead.; 3/29/22, 7:38 PM
Howard said...: It isn't a narrative, it's Trump's repeated overt acts to benefit and facilitate Putin's attempted takeover of Ukraine.

Like the woman in Bad Vegan, you people are in so deep inside the gaslighting mindfuck, you cannot quit it otherwise it's prima facie evidence that you have been complicit in the furtherance of a criminal conspiracy, eg Useful Idiots.; 3/29/22, 8:36 PM
wildswan said...: Engaged in my quest to understand why Howard, Inga and I are apparently aligned against those I respect
I found a timeline covering the events of the last 30 years in relation to the Kremlin, US and Ukraine. It shows the Kremlin's Narrative about the US at different times, the Kremlin's actions and US actions. Summarizing: In the Nineties and after, the US worked on the principle that there was a unipolar world after the Soviet collapse. The US neocons with others, including George Soros, worked to cause "Color" Revolution, Rose in Georgia, Orange in the Ukraine and so on. These brought NATO to Russia's borders. Putin pushed back talking of a multi-polar world, including a rebuilt Russia and acting by means of very successful "hybrid wars" - propaganda crescendos followed by lightning takeovers spearheaded by Spetsnaz forces.
The timeline ends in 2019.There have been developments.
It was expected that the Ukraine attack would be another successful hybrid war but the Ukraine had worked out how to resist such wars. The US announced to all that Russian propaganda to be followed by an attack was beginning as was characteristic of hybrid wars; then the attack came; the Ukrainian Army was ready for the attack on the capital city airport and the capital and prevented a takeover. The Russians were not ready for any other kind of campaign. They are now losing. And here we are.

https://www.understandingwar.org/report/how-we-got-here-russia-kremlins-worldview (This site presents the views of the current Ukrainian government.)

This set of ideas sets aside Biden, Hunter Biden, Ukrainian oligarchs, and the US climatistas as US domestic issues. How Biden & Co. want to use the Ukraine and the war is a selfish, corrupt, gouging, lefty plan. The war is different, in my opinion, from what is happening in the Ukraine. They are only joined because the US gets strangely mingled with everything - our domestic policy with their struggle for freedom from Russia, perhaps?; 3/29/22, 8:45 PM
n.n said...: Trump should step in and broker a peace deal on his own.

Between the Ukrainians. Between the Ukrainians and neighbors. And close the Wuhan-style labs to mitigate the progress of Covid-X.; 3/29/22, 9:00 PM
paminwi said...: I skip Howard’s comments completely.
All I think when I see his name is: useless blather.; 3/29/22, 9:33 PM
Maynard said...: We all saw Trump greenlight the invasion after Putin moved into the disreputed territories. Then a few days ago, we witnessed Trump encouraged Putin to use Nukes.

I don't usually respond to annoying little twits. However, in this case I must point out that the insanity is dramatically increasing as the DNC bots realize how bad it is going for them.; 3/29/22, 9:43 PM
Narr said...: Mutaman and the trite insult, deployed whenever he lacks the wit for wit. Which is most of the time.

He/she/xi seems to think we went to university to learn about sports champions.

If he/she/xi confined him/her/xitself to periodic sports updates it would be easier on everyone, especially xit.; 3/29/22, 10:00 PM
narciso said...: See that piece i excerpted last weekend; 3/29/22, 10:11 PM
Achilles said...: Howard said...

We all saw Trump greenlight the invasion after Putin moved into the disreputed territories. Then a few days ago, we witnessed Trump encouraged Putin to use Nukes.

This is how stupid and dishonest you have to be to support the Biden Regime.

Nobody is buying it Howard.

We are not as stupid as you are.

Biden will not finish his term and Harris will almost certainly not succeed him.

Your entire clown car is going to implode.; 3/29/22, 11:34 PM
Mary Beth said...: Sometimes I read comments online that makes me think I'm living in a different timeline from the commenter. How can we have a future if we can't even agree on a shared past?; 3/30/22, 5:37 AM
Christopher B said...: Chris Lopes said...
"cubanbob said...
Maybe it's wishful thinking but I suspect this war will be over by the end of summer. "

I don't think Russia can afford to have this war last until the beginning of summer. I know their economy (and pretty much everyone else's) can't.

Before WWI started there was a widely held belief that large scale war would be so economically ruinous because of lost international trade and the rapid decline in the standard of living in warring nations that nations with any form of democratic representation would never start one. This belief, among others, was blasted to bits between 1914 and 1918.

Britain tried economic warfare on Germany much the same way we are using sanctions against Russia. It didn't go as planned.

They weren't necessarily wrong, however. Despite the booms of the 1920s and 1950s, it wasn't until *1970* that global trade was the proportion of global economic output it had been in 1913.; 3/30/22, 5:40 AM
Jaq said...: " you people are in so deep inside the gaslighting mindfuck,"

The worse his worldview matches up to reality, the more irrational he becomes. It's only logical. If I had backed Joe "Ukraine is my personal Teapot Dome" Biden, imagining that he would be competent, and I refused to examine my priors...

I have started out on the wrong side of a couple of argument. at first I assumed that catastrophic global warming was real, and the scientists must have their ducks in a row, for example. And I had sympathy for the Ukrainian Nazis at first, due to the treatment of the country under Stalin, but both cases, as new evidence came into scope, I realized I was wrong and changed my mind. The only way to keep a handle on reality is to admit when you are wrong, don't be a Howard.; 3/30/22, 6:44 AM
exhelodrvr1 said...: Read the cdrsalamander Twitter for the best reporting on the war; 3/30/22, 6:53 AM
Jaq said...: "Trump greenlight the invasion after Putin moved into the disreputed territories."

I don't blame Howard for thinking Trump is the real President now, since Howard's, and Joe Biden's grip on reality has become so fragile, but Trump is not. While he was actually POTUS, he was pushing for more energy production, liquified US NG for Europe, for Europeans to lessen their dependence on Russian energy, and holding up an energy pipeline from Russia. Joe Biden killed Keystone day one, approved the Russian pipeline, and killed a natural gas pipeline from Isreal, and then made a very public promise to Ukraine that they would be part of Nato, blithely crossing what has been known to be the brightest of red lines for the Russians since Gorbachev. Had Putin allowed Ukraine to become part of Nato, he likely would have been deposed.

But that's not what Hillary, who took millions and millions from Putin, and sold him all of our uranium says, so "Trump greenlighted the invasion," it is!; 3/30/22, 6:57 AM
Bob Boyd said...: @wildswan

Thanks for the link. For much more information about the events on your timeline:

https://martyrmade.com/thoughts-on-ukraine/

You can listen here for free or download it on Apple podcasts. Select the updated and remastered version. The sound quality sucks in the first release.; 3/30/22, 6:59 AM
Jaq said...: wildswan, there is a lot of sleight of hand in your summary, which I assume comes from the source. You can never use just one source, but at the ed of the day, your argument just assumes what you are trying to prove. But I am sure it is what the Ukrainians are telling people.; 3/30/22, 7:02 AM
Inga said...: “It isn't a narrative, it's Trump's repeated overt acts to benefit and facilitate Putin's attempted takeover of Ukraine.

Like the woman in Bad Vegan, you people are in so deep inside the gaslighting mindfuck, you cannot quit it otherwise it's prima facie evidence that you have been complicit in the furtherance of a criminal conspiracy, eg Useful Idiots.”

And Putin was counting on his useful idiot, Trump winning by hook or by crook. It failed. Putin turned to Fox and F.Carlson to be his mouthpiece to the American conservatives who were are receptive.; 3/30/22, 8:30 AM
Drago said...: Howard: "It isn't a narrative, it's Trump's repeated overt acts to benefit and facilitate Putin's attempted takeover of Ukraine."

LOL

Its always the same with these democratical NPC-Automatons, isn't it?

Always claiming to have these long lists of how Trump colluded with Putin and has helped Putin...but never actually providing those long lists...because those long lists long ago collapsed after being exposed as lies.

But what makes a good democratical foot soldier/cannon fodder, like Howard, is their inability to integrate new information and adapt after the previous lies have been obliterated.

Howard is more of a Howard than most Howards.; 3/30/22, 9:04 AM
Drago said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 3/30/22, 9:07 AM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: Everyone should watch this episode of Tucker. - Biden in his own words.

Unless you're a loyal Swetnick.; 3/30/22, 9:33 AM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: Inga- Russia decided to invade Ukraine on YOUR guys watch.

YOUR Crook. Putin's real poodle.

Blistering New Report Takes Down Media’s Gas Price Narrative, Reveals 81 Ways Biden Has Sent Prices Sky High.; 3/30/22, 9:35 AM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: According to the Swetnick hivemind - if you dare call out Biden for his drooling mouth breathing old man off-script WWIII talk - (and complete lies about his own words) you are a Trumpist-Putinist.

According to the Swetnicks.; 3/30/22, 10:30 AM
Original Mike said...: I see Inga has spent her time away wallowing in the fever swamps.

Are we supposed to understand what the F. in F. Carlson stands for?; 3/30/22, 10:33 AM
Original Mike said...: I've seen a couple of Tucker Carlson monologues on the Ukraine war and to call his position as supporting Putin is delusional. What he doesn't want is US involvement in another foreign war. There was a time when that would have been the expected democrat/liberal position.

What the hell has happened to this world?; 3/30/22, 10:55 AM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: Tucker also points out the one person who is leading us towards a war - Biden.

Biden actually said, when asked, that "we would return in kind" the release of Chemical weapons. *wow*

Biden's own administration had to walk that back.
This is an astonishing level of carelessness. And it's coming out of the Presidents own mouth.; 3/30/22, 11:03 AM
Jaq said...: Inga has a softspot for Ukrainian Nazis. Personally, I don't think that it is our war and not one American son or daughter or any of the other 55 varieties should die there, or so much as lose a little toe over that sewer of corruption that has so grabbed Biden's attention and made his family rich.; 3/30/22, 12:00 PM
Candide said...: Media was very militaristic this morning, with reports on enormous Russian casualties and how Ukrainians about to start routing Russians any time now.

So I checked how peace talks are going and sure enough there was some progress, with Ukrainians moving closer to accepting the original Russian demands.

What is strange about reports on Russian casualties and inevitable loss of morale they are sure to produce, they never compared with Ukrainian casualties. Unspoken assumption seems to be that Ukrainians will never suffer from loss of morale, no matter the casualties rate. As long as there is a single Ukrainian fighting, the West is happy to cheer on from safe distance.; 3/30/22, 12:46 PM
n.n said...: I don't think that it is our war

For better or worse, the Biden/Maidan/Slavic Spring in the Obama Spring series from Tripoli to Kiev, or social justice without borders.; 3/30/22, 1:41 PM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: Swetnicks get their talking points for $150- million dollar Party Propagandist Stephen Colbert. corruption excusing Asshole extraordinaire.; 3/30/22, 2:44 PM
Narr said...: I can't claim any special insight or informants on the morale issue in the war, but sometimes matters like this do resolve pretty starkly.

If the Russians had been able to blitz the Ukrainian defenses and gain the upper hand quickly, we wouldn't be discussing relative morale. As it is, whatever fighting edge the Russians may have had (or thought they had) has been worn down, and in the rear stocks of everything are getting low, if history is any guide.

Logistically, the Russians are tied to railways, and ironically seem to have run into a problem similar to the Germans in 1941 and others later-- the farther the combat units advance the longer the distance between where RRs dump the stuff and trucks take it forward--and supply trucks add to the supply problem . . . And the Russian truck fleet is very small compared to Western standards. The Germans had to convert rail gauge and all the ancillary infrastructure, repair facilities damaged by either side, and provide security as they went.

The defenders have dodged the initial and probably heaviest blows, are on familiar ground and closer to their bases, are finding more friends than enemies among their neighbors (as Clausewitz noted, a clear pattern in the European state system), and have the passion and increasingly the initiative.

It's not over, but a turning point may have been reached.

Or maybe not.; 3/30/22, 3:11 PM
exhelodrvr1 said...: Are Inga and Howard the same person?; 3/30/22, 3:48 PM
Rusty said...: exhelodrvr1 said...
"Are Inga and Howard the same person?"
No. They just have about the same level of intelligence. Which is marginal. Their lack of morality is truly stunning. If you want to know who pushed the zeks into the stolypin cars all you have to do is read what they post.; 3/30/22, 4:10 PM