"... and casting the military clash in Europe as the 'test of all time' in a decades-long battle to defend democracy. In a speech from a castle that served for centuries as a home for Polish monarchs, Mr. Biden described the face-off with Mr. Putin as a moment he has long warned about: a clash of competing global ideologies, of liberty versus oppression.... 'Don’t even think about going on one single inch of NATO territory,' Biden says to Russia, raising his voice in his most animated moment of the speech. But he draws a familiar line in the sand, saying that American troops will not go into Ukraine, which is not a NATO member."
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१५३ टिप्पण्या:
That declaration lasted, what, 30 minutes or so? Must have missed his nap.
He has moments when he thinks he's JFK. Like the guy in "Arsenic and Old Lace" who thinks he's TR.
And the White House is feverishly walking back his regime change remarks.
Putin knows what happened to Gaddafi...Biden is giving him no way out.
Biden is senile and should be removed from office.
Doctor Jill should be brought up on charges of elder abuse.
Woops. The White House walked back Biden's statement that Putin cannot remain in power.
Biden also said earlier that he wanted to go on some war tourism, go pop into Ukraine's bombed cities to see the sights, but 'they will not let me' cross into Ukraine.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-not-allowed-ukraine-european-trip
And...moments later the White House moved in to 'clean up' those remarks.
Apparently it's OK to ask for Donald Trump's death, but it's not OK to ask for Putin to step down.
Our only real global competitor is China.
But China has already purchased the services and loyalty of Americas "elite" establishment.
And dont think the democraticals dont know what Putin has on the Bidens, hence the over the top bluster.
No body takes Biden seriously about anything. Everyone knows he has dementia.
Biden now on record calling for regime change in russia to cover his family's tracks and to create another forever war with Ukraine as the proxy venue.
And the White House is already attempting to walk Joe's statements back.
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/599887-white-house-attempts-to-walk-back-biden-stating-putin-cant-stay-in
It's going to be a terrible blow to my Hillary Clinton worshiping family members. When Ol' Joe got up and gave that speech they were acting like FDR had risen from the grave!
and as quickly -
clean up in aisle twitter
Everything is going great. The White House "clarified" Slow Joe's call for regime change within minutes.
Let's go Brandon!
Loose cannon. Jeez.
for God’s sake, this man cannot remain in power'..."
so, it's WAR!
But he draws a familiar line in the sand, saying that American troops will not go into Ukraine
so, it's NUCLEAR! Our ICBMs against THEIR ICBMs!
Too bad, that our NEWEST missiles are our Tridents, which are Over FORTY years old!
Of course, we ARE doing a Life Extension program D5 Life Extension Program which will replace obsolete components..
This upgrade should be mostly complete, in just a few more years.. Assuming it gets funding
But the White House almost immediately walked back the command that "Putin cannot remain in power". Good ol' Joe, still foaming at the mouth.
Which the WHite House immediately walked back.
Sigh. You know the last time we publicly called for "removal" of a foriegn leader it didn't go well. I'm referring to JFK and Castro. We get crazy Ladybugs Graham and Mittens Romney calling for Putin to be assassinated. And now this from biden.
What the hell are these people thinking? Putin has 12,000 nuclear warheads.
Someone needs to talk to the real President and tell Joe Biden to rein it in.
President Walter Mitty
My God, this man cannot remain in power. The blithering old fool is going to get millions killed.
1. 82nd Airborne is going into Ukraine;
2. Elements of the 82nd have already been in Ukraine;
3. US will use chemical weapons against Russian;
4. Regime change in Russia.
They really want WWIII. Where is the diplomacy? Where are the offramps? Where are the golden bridges?
Regime changed begins at home.
Amendment 25 where are you?
Someone needs to take away Biden's car keys.
that was assad I believe, 10 years later he's still there, just like when the spokesman for the Soviet trained Algerian eradicateurs Lamari and co, lecture Bashir, that was a wry chuckle,
8 years... 32... 33 trimesters since the Biden/Maidan/Slavic Spring and a war on, between Ukrainians. Over 2 years... 8... 9 trimesters since Zelensky was "elected". The Wuhan-style labs were merely illicit housewarming gifts.
EXCLUSIVE: Hunter Biden DID help secure millions in funding for US contractor in Ukraine specializing in deadly pathogen research, laptop emails reveal, raising more questions about the disgraced son of then vice president
Billions of dollars in state-of-the-art military housewarming gifts for the Taliban, too. Bundle Back Better.
now the significance of making this statement in poland, Russians know about the Time of troubles chronicled in boris gudonov,
The White House took back/walk back that apparent declaration of war. Went off script, apparently.
Meanwhile, another president known for going off script, former President Trump was rallying 30 minutes from where I now live today.
now the ruble is up +45% because most of the world doesn't bother with these reindeer games, I'm getting a bad Come Nineveh Come Tyre vibe, (allen drury's eligy for a dying America(
The last time we heard that language the name was Assad..or was it Ka'Daffy, or was it Mubarek...I forget.
(Why do I hear Susan Rice, Samantha Power, and Hillary Clinton giggling in the background?)
"'for God’s sake, this man cannot remain in power'..."
As everyone noted, the "White House" walked this back right quick.
Which raises the questions:
1. Who is in charge?
2. How fast is Biden losing it?
3. What does it tell Putin and Xi?
We. Are. Doomed.
I had very low expectations for Prez L.G.B. and his merry band, and they have fallen short at every stage.
The old blabbermouth may get us killed yet.
Hes a blowhard!
Always was. 2blowhards at the top.
narciso is back just in time. ... what do you think of /the vineyard of the saker/
Definition of saker
: a grayish-brown Old World falcon (Falco cherrug) that is used in falconry
History and Etymology for saker
Middle English sacre, from Anglo-French, from Arabic ṣaqr
Imagine, if you will, Putin said of Biden "this man cannot remain in power".
Seriously. Think about it. Not in the abstract, but real world, actual, one nation's leader to another.
Fuck.
I can tell you Putin is more loved in Russia than Biden is in America. They understand Putin, despite his lingering Soviet tendencies, is trying to make Russia stronger, protecting Russia.
The greatest threat to America is America. Everyone knows it except college educated white women.
I think the idea of “drawing a line in the sand” is that it’s the other fellow who’s not supposed to cross it. Also, you could declare a “red line”, but probably not a “red line in the sand”, or a “line in the red sand.”
Kinda like talking about the “tip of the iceberg “, and rooting for or against the ship.
Remember Obama talking about whether someone would “call his bluff”?
Biden couldn't declare that he wants a ham sandwich. His greatest achievement is ordering a two-scoop, chocolate, chocolate chip ice cream cone. He good to do that, nothing else.
Biden needs to go back to wearing a mask whenever he's out in pubic. And by "mask" I mean any kind of cloth that's stretched over a ball gag.
Here’s the thing: you can say that Biden has dementia but he has been doing things like this for his whole career.
Ye sordid prostitutes have you not defil’d this sacred place, and turn’d the Lord’s temple into a den of thieves, by your immoral principles and wicked practices? Ye are grown intolerably odious to the whole nation; you were deputed here by the people to get grievances redress’d, are yourselves gone! So! Take away that shining bauble there, and lock up the doors.
In the name of God, go!”
Oliver Cromwell to Biden
“Imagine, if you will, Putin said of Biden "this man cannot remain in power".”
Well, shit. I’ve said it many times.
Browndog said...
I can tell you Putin is more loved in Russia than Biden is in America. They understand Putin, despite his lingering Soviet tendencies, is trying to make Russia stronger, protecting Russia.
You are a lunatic and / or a liar
1: Popular leaders don't need to assassinate people for criticizing them. Which Putin has done multiple times
2: If Putin were trying to make Russia strong and protect Russia, he'd get rid of the endemic corruption, the corruption that he leads the way on
3: No significant number of Russians felt threatened by Ukraine, or by Ukraine joining NATO. The Baltic Republics have been part of NATO for decades, with no harm coming to Russia
The reason why Putin hates Ukraine joining NATO is because Putin is a power hungry thug who wants to enslave the people of Ukraine, and Ukraine being part of the EU and NATO would take away the ability to do so.
The people of Russia don't want, and don't give a shit about "Greater Russia". What they want is a greater supply of products on teh shelves of store that they can buy.
And Putin's megalomania is fucking that up for them.
Have they been bullies and cowed to teh point that they're not going to protest? yes, for the most part, they have.
That doesn't mean they love Putin, and you're fundamentally insane if you think they do
What the hell are these people thinking? Putin has 12,000 nuclear warheads.
==========
I remember that WFBuckley had this idea to buy nukes from USSR
- with MMT may be USA can afford to carry that out [10% going where it should]
“I think the idea of “drawing a line in the sand” is that it’s the other fellow who’s not supposed to cross it.”
And once they’ve already blown by that line, one looks like a fool babbling about it. Especially when everyone knows you made the line-crossing possible.
Greg The Class Traitor said...
Browndog said...
I can tell you Putin is more loved in Russia than Biden is in America. They understand Putin, despite his lingering Soviet tendencies, is trying to make Russia stronger, protecting Russia.
You are a lunatic and / or a liar
You see, lying, stealing, what not, is not in my DNA. Won't do it, can't do it, would rather go to my grave before forced to do it. Not a choice, it's who I am.
So...lunatic it is?
The people of Russia don't want, and don't give a shit about "Greater Russia". What they want is a greater supply of products on teh shelves of store that they can buy.
And Putin's megalomania is fucking that up for them.
Substitute "America" and "Biden" and you will get a lot closer to the real situation as it affects us. I don't "give a shit" about Nato's manifest destiny to expand to Russia's border, I do care about our food supply, which Biden may well have screwed up in his half assed handling of Ukraine over many years.
I really didn’t listen to Biden’s speech although the TV was playing in the background. What I did hear was him yelling at the audience. It didn’t sound very presidential. Then afterwards his aides said in effect, “Pay no attention to what he said.”
Compare this to Reagan’s”Mr Gorbachev, tear down this wall” speech.
1: Do I support sending US troops to Ukraine to fight and kill Russians? No. I want to send US weapons to Ukraine to help the Ukrainians fight and kill Russians, and US troops to Poland and Hungary to train Ukrainians how to better fight and kill Russians
2: Is it "World War III" if new do so?
Well, it wasn't WW III when the USSR / Russia sent Russian pilots to North Korea to fight and kill American pilots during the Korean War.
It wasn't WW III when the USSR / Russia sent Russian air defense people to North Vietnam to fight and kill American pilots during the Vietnam War.
So I see no reason why Turing the tables on that should be legitimate grounds for starting WW III.
Is it a stupid idea? Yes, it is. But Putin's got no kick if it comes his way
3: No significant number of Russians felt threatened by Ukraine, or by Ukraine joining NATO.
=========
say - how does that poll in Don-Bas
“I can tell you Putin is more loved in Russia than Biden is in America.”
“That doesn't mean they love Putin”
Unfortunately, the second quote is not a refutation of the first one.
Regime change! That's our specialty. Ought to hang a sign on the White House saying "Regime Change R Us"
“I think the idea of “drawing a line in the sand”
=======
during a sand-storm in Middle-East or as the ocean is coming in is smart idea! very science evidence based
His babbling could get us deeper into the Ukraine war. He told our troops yesterday that they will be going into Ukraine, and today he said, in effect, that Putin must be replaced and also that he was a butcher. His handlers have had to clean up his impolitic remarks for three consecutive days. He must have a whole janitorial staff devoted to sanitizing his sloppy rhetoric. As POTUS, he must measure his words and use the most politic language. He and the European allies may still have to negotiate with Putin. He should not burn his diplomatic bridges in advance. He may need them. Today the Russians responded quickly to his comment that Putin can not stay in power. Why feed Putin’s paranoia? Biden’s sloppy public speaking can have serious consequences.
Greg the moron still thinks it's 1984 in the U.S.S.R.
"So I see no reason why Turing the tables on that should be legitimate grounds for starting WW III."
I am sure that you will be in the room and allowed to put in your two cents when the decision is made.
"Why feed Putin’s paranoia?"
LOL. Khadafy was 'paranoid' too, I bet.
rcocean said...
Sigh. You know the last time we publicly called for "removal" of a foriegn leader it didn't go well. I'm referring to JFK and Castro. We get crazy Ladybugs Graham and Mittens Romney calling for Putin to be assassinated. And now this from biden.
What the hell are these people thinking? Putin has 12,000 nuclear warheads.
*************
And if only 1% work after being launched, it truly IS the end of the world.
Biden sounds like General Buck Turgidson in "Dr. Strangelove": "Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying we won't our hair mussed. What? twenty...thirty million killed. Tops!"
https://youtu.be/bZm3qBdECdw?t=130
thanks I have found it to be a contest of the greater fools, with dugin whispering in putins ear, why did he do this now, when practically no successful lands has been launched in that accursed bloodlands, in this time frame in hundreds of years,
vs shambling having stripped ourselves of energy independence, now venture into famine induction, and the collapse of the reserve currency by the abandonment of half the worlds powers,
What a dumb fuck.
Greg why so aggressive? Do you speak Russian or Ukrainian? Do you have family and friends living in Russian and Ukraine?
Your somewhat right but you come off as a programmed neocon.
Most Russian I know agree that corruption is bad but don't know what to do about it. They hate the idea of NATO troops in Baltic and especially in Ukraine. They tolerate Putin because his replacement could be worse.
Most Russian speakers I know in Russia and Ukraine understand the goal of the Russian government. But they hate Russians fighting Ukrainians. Ive heard way more Russian speaking Ukrainians going to fight for Ukraine than Russia.
it's much more gray than black or white.
You know the last time we said X must go? Kennedy said Castro must go. Bay of Pigs. And then Kennedy was shot. But I guess Biden's memory isn't working.
General Ivashov veteran of Prague, told him this was foolish exercise, this happened when putin was following their version of bond, into Moscow U, and then the KGB, where he got Dresden that's drawing the short straw,
of course, if one was foolish enough to consider such an operation, the abovementioned prague mop up involved some 500,000 troops half of those from the warsaw pact, that is close to the German compliment of the first battle of Kiev in 41, which the Soviets lost even though they had a 5/4 advantage,
no if he was to invade poland all bets are off, but you fancy your chances with general milley vannili, darth austin, and the twitter general of the 82nd who was embarrassed by the British paras in Afghanistan,
Now I understand this Hollywood production - is not Wag the Dog but ...
so Biden is talking about where Fiddler played his fiddle.
Biden did on the one hand
WH staff did on the other hand.
Fiddler on the Roof is based on Tevye (or Tevye the Dairyman) and his Daughters, a series of stories by Sholem Aleichem that he wrote in Yiddish between 1894 and 1914 about Jewish life in a village in the Pale of Settlement of Imperial Russia at the turn of the 20th century.
I am now moving Biden up from 1st on my list of worst presidents of my lifetime to 1st, 2nd and 3rd.
in the category of the nadir of the house of Augustus, probably Tiberius,
Moral questions aside, Russia is better suited than America in isolation:
-food
-water
-energy
-education
-technology
-military
-population control (immigration)
-currency (yes)
-spirituality
-determination
"Russia is nothing but a gas station run by a dictator"
not a few generals who were graduates of Frunze, have paid their lives by ignoring these facts on the ground,
Living in US now looks more and more like living through the last days of USSR.
Demented old geezers hold positions of power, in thrall of a crazy ideology that denies basic facts of human nature.
Sigmund Freud, Civilization and its discontents, the standard edition.
and we have a third rate community college faculty who remembers nothing, in charge of this vast and diverse nation,
as the kin of a brigade commander at Giron Beach, I have little reason to trust the Russians, I have less to trust a long time Soviet tool as well, who has brought us to the nadir of what can laughably be called governance,
wildswan said...
You know the last time we said X must go? Kennedy said Castro must go. Bay of Pigs. And then Kennedy was shot. But I guess Biden's memory isn't working.
That wasn't the last time, but it's an excellent example.
We said Saddam must go. It looked easy. Wasn't.
We said the Taliban must go. They're still there.
There's long, long list since Kennedy.
So who's going to replace Putin if he goes? Does the Biden regime have anyone in mind? I'll bet they do. A designated Russian hero will soon be offered.
This is a very risky business.
Its just a minor incursion authorized by we all knew who.
the German General staff sent Lenin to the Finland Station, hence the October Revolution, the armistice with Lenin, which lead to Prince Mirbach who was executed by Social Revolutionaries,
'for God’s sake, this man cannot remain in power'
Joe Biden is right.
Brandon needs to go.
Soon.
in the interval Sidney Reilly tried to topple Lenin, using the Latvians but the point person Berzin was a Cheka operative,
now in point of fact, the sanctions have not been targeted at oligarchs, but every aspect of russian life, banks credit cards, so I don't think we'll have earned any goodwill from this exercise,
Candide said...
Living in US now looks more and more like living through the last days of USSR.
Demented old geezers hold positions of power, in thrall of a crazy ideology that denies basic facts of human nature.
Astute comment.
Russian sanctions are targeted toward the American middle class.
Change my mind.
if only don henley were alive, sarc, then he would cite some lines from 'the end of the innocence' which was ironic, because Reagan would bring the Cold war to a close, whereas this old tool is making it about 5000 degrees warmm
Joe's about to bring out the chain and rain barrel rusted blade.
Right after he finishes his ice cream cone.
President Vegetable.
Erections have consequences!
Settle down children. You and Biden are on the same side.
Like you pathetic isolationists, he hasn't done and won't do anymore than stand on the sidelines, doing nothing more than shooting off his mouth, while reassuring Putin that the U.S. will NOT engage Russia militarily.
Of course his conduct and yours do nothing but embolden Putin.
Browndog said...
Greg the moron still thinks it's 1984 in the U.S.S.R.
Browndog is so full of shit that even he knows everything he says is garbage
Which is why he's deflecting with a personal attack, rather than actually attempting to disprove anything I said
Notice how, subconsciously, if you disagree with killing Putin, or going to war with Russia, makes you an insurrectionists.
tim in vermont said...
Substitute "America" and "Biden" and you will get a lot closer to the real situation as it affects us. I don't "give a shit" about Nato's manifest destiny to expand to Russia's border, I do care about our food supply, which Biden may well have screwed up in his half assed handling of Ukraine over many years.
So, what your'e saying is that you're just like the dickies losers who brought about WWII because they couldn't be bothered to stop Hitler when it could be done cheaply?
Here's a comment from a couple of days ago that you ignored:
tim in vermont said...
Crimea had a plebiscite in which about 90% of citizens voted and they voted to become part of Russia by nearly 90%.
http://electionresources.org/ua/president.php?election=2010®ion=01
2010 Presidential election vote between Viktor Yanukovych and Yulia Tymoshenko:
February 7, 2010 Runoff Election Results - Autonomous Republic of Crimea
Registered Electors 1,559,474
Voters 1,049,591 67.3%
Invalid Ballots 12,627 1.2%
Against All 34,005 3.2%
Candidate Votes %
Viktor Yanukovych 821,244 78.2
Yulia Tymoshenko 181,715 17.3
So, the idea that 90% of voters came out and voted 90% in favor of separation from Ukraine is so beyond ludicrous that we're at a "no thinking person can believe those results are honest" state of affairs.
WTF Tim?
You got a response now? Or are you still living in bullshit land?
Blogger Narayanan said...
3: No significant number of Russians felt threatened by Ukraine, or by Ukraine joining NATO.
=========
say - how does that poll in Don-Bas
Don-Bas is part of Ukraine, not Russia. The people living there are Ukrainians, not Russians.
As was agreed to by Russia in 1994, in the Budapest Accords.
Which is why he's deflecting with a personal attack, rather than actually attempting to disprove anything I said
Fuck you.
We've all been reading your tiresome, lengthy rants for weeks on this topic. Nobody had the balls to call you out. Not because you're wrong, but because you attack those that simply offer a different perspective.
So, again. Be civil. Respect others point of view. If you can't, you get me.
Weighed, measured, and fuck you.
Rusty writes, "Nobody takes Biden seriously about anything. Everyone knows he has dementia."
So who has the Button? Kamala?
Well, that explains the giggling, doesn't it?
they are still discharging American servicemen and woman, and Dread Pirate Roberts is letting this gang do it, my heart is with the Ukrainians, as with all subject peoples, but I know a little too much of the history of that benighted land, to see this doesn't well see Petlura 1926, Bandera 1959, Kruschev arose from that pile of bones, to emerge as moderate, until he practiced nuclear blackmail in our own backyards,
The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...
“I can tell you Putin is more loved in Russia than Biden is in America.”
“That doesn't mean they love Putin”
Unfortunately, the second quote is not a refutation of the first one.
Well, the first quote is so stupidly pointless that there's no point in refuting it.
Because, seriously? Who cares how many of us despise Biden? I sure do.
That doesn't change the reality that Putin needs to be completely and utterly stopped in Ukraine
that doesn't fit so neatly on a bumper sticker, Putin is a vor who thinks himself Czar, who wins in this battle, it's not us,
Bill, Republic of Texas said...
Greg why so aggressive? Do you speak Russian or Ukrainian? Do you have family and friends living in Russian and Ukraine?
No, yes
Your somewhat right but you come off as a programmed neocon.
No, I
'm just someone who doesn't have his head up his ass, and who learned something from 20th Century history
Most Russian I know agree that corruption is bad but don't know what to do about it. They hate the idea of NATO troops in Baltic and especially in Ukraine. They tolerate Putin because his replacement could be worse.
They tolerate Putin because Putin kills or throws in jail anyone who poses the slightest threat to his power.
Most Russian speakers I know in Russia and Ukraine understand the goal of the Russian government.
They understand that Putin wants to conquer Ukraine and put in back into Russia, so he can rob it, too?
But they hate Russians fighting Ukrainians. Ive heard way more Russian speaking Ukrainians going to fight for Ukraine than Russia.
it's much more gray than black or white.
No, it's entirely black and white:
When a dictator tries to expand by force or threat of force, you stop him
With whatever force it takes
because it will never get any cheaper to stop him later
no if he was to invade poland all bets are off
That seems to be consensus amongst people who used to be in charge…
Browndog said...
Moral questions aside, Russia is better suited than America in isolation:
-food
-water
-energy
-education
-technology
Technology?
You mean like their secure radios, that turned out to be such shit that Russian troops are using totally unencrypted radios so they can communicate?
You mean like their Air Force, which if it was even minimally competent would have wiped the Ukrainian Air Force out in teh first couple of days?
-military
HAHAHAHAHAHA
-population control (immigration)
You mean their high death rates and low replacement rates?
-currency (yes)
-spirituality
-determination
If they were actually determine people, they would have killed the nomenklatura and Putin butt boys robbing them blind
You are either utterly delusional, or a Russian troll
President Walter Mitty.
It's President Quixote versus the pocketa-pocketa machine.
no if he was to invade poland all bets are off
If Russia were to invade Poland, Biden and this crew here would make some excuse and ultimately tell the Poles that they are on their own.
So today Biden asked if someone could assassinate Putin.
Keep in mind folks didn't President John Kennedy try to kill Castro several times??
And for his effort he got Oswald...
But do not fret! Biden is in no danger.
Putin does not want to get rid of Col. Klink.. I mean Biden. Biden is his best ally right now. Hell, Biden is an ace up Putin's sleeve!
Quaestor said...
"Rusty writes, "Nobody takes Biden seriously about anything. Everyone knows he has dementia."
So who has the Button? Kamala?
Well, that explains the giggling, doesn't it?"
That's the 64$ question isn't. This bowl of pudding of a president through his handlers are going to get us in a shooting war and we'll be lucky if it only come down to tactical nukes.
Biden voters have a lot to answer for.
I said my peace. Sorry to Althouse and her readers for personal back and forth with Greg, but it had to be said.
It stops with me.
-military
HAHAHAHAHAHA
Greg's comments would make an excellent script for a new Hitler rant video, only this one would be closer to actual history than any Hitler rant so far. Greg has touched on nearly every argument the real Adolf Hitler made to his reluctant generals in the closing months of 1940 except, "We have only to kick in the door and the whole rotten structure will come crashing down."
narciso said...
... Putin is a vor
=======
what about Biden and others in uni-Party?
why would they claim Trump as connected to Putin as a vor
Greg The Class Traitor said...
2: Is it "World War III" if new do so?
Well, it wasn't WW III when the USSR / Russia sent Russian pilots to North Korea to fight and kill American pilots during the Korean War.
It wasn't WW III when the USSR / Russia sent Russian air defense people to North Vietnam to fight and kill American pilots during the Vietnam War.
******************************
In neither case did the Soviets publicly proclaim they were doing those things or threatening that they would before hostilities broke out.
In neither case the USSR---being a fascistic commie regime----allow public debate on what the USSR should do.
In neither case was the USSR making an aggressive war from its territory on one bordering it.
In neither case did they ever admit during the conflicts that Russian pilots were flying Nork and North Vietnam planes or manning the Vietnam SAM sites. You don't see any Russian in the photos of Jane Fonda (Puke Be Upon Here) at an anti-aircraft site.
So your supposed historical parallels are...skewed. Hopelessly skewed.
Listen to narciso.
He gives you enough information to search out the truth on your own. If you're not inclined, don't listen to narciso.
Cleanup on Aisle 25--stat! Oopsie, clean up gets you significance of time and the great significance of time in our time Kacklin Kamala--followed by San Fran Nan. Some things are too horrible to contemplate.
"Like you pathetic isolationists, he hasn't done and won't do anymore than stand on the sidelines, doing nothing more than shooting off his mouth, while reassuring Putin that the U.S. will NOT engage Russia militarily."
Ok General Ripper, explain to us unenlightened souls how a shooting war with the Russians doesn't end in nuclear conflagration? You really believe if it looks like he's gonna lose, Putin wouldn't consider at least using tactical nuclear weapons and the West wouldn't respond in kind? Have you ever wondered why the last half of the 20th Century had the 2 major superpowers fighting wars by proxy instead of directly engaging each other?
I'll give you a hint, it wasn't because they were pussies. It's because everyone with a brain knew how fast things could escalate and how incredibly dangerous that would be with nuclear armed countries. This isn't some Command & Conquer game. This is real countries with real world ending weapons. One is lead by an ego maniac trying to rebuild an empire of the past, the other is lead by a senile old man who has no idea where he is or what he's doing. You'd have to be blind not to see the potential for tragedy here.
The Chinese government has been committing genocide for several years and no one talks about it. Putin ineptly invades Ukraine and Biden wants to start WWIII. What gives? Why are we fine with genocide of brown people but so morally outraged over invasion of a white country? I wonder.
Thanks the upa fought the soviets and their polish proxies in the carpathian mountains for four years with little aid from mi 6 or the company
Vor is a boss of the bratva or thieves world what grew in every corner of the soviet expanse.
Putin is not trying to rebuild the USSR. He's not a communist.
Keep fucking around and he will...If China allows him.
Greg: "So, what your'e saying is that you're just like the dickies losers who brought about WWII because they couldn't be bothered to stop Hitler when it could be done cheaply?"
"cheaply"
"We must fight them over there so we don't have to fight them here."....
....and 20/30 years later....tens of thousands US military personnel injured and thousands killed, trillions wasted, millions displaced,
"cheaply"
So many "bargains" await us when we mindlessly parrot our "elite" "betters" while all the insiders and their children reap millions and even billions.
No i dont think so, look how much trouble one renegade province is, but look at pre 1917 Russia that was a huge territory
it's much more gray than black or white.
Greg said:
No, it's entirely black and white:
I'm out. No point in trying to reason with a troll or zealot.
Greg, here's the website for joining Ukraine in her fight with Russia. It's even in English! You may be the only thing that keeps Russia from marching to the English channel.
https://fightforua.org/
Of course you'd be fighting and dying to protect a corrupt Ukraine government that violently overthrew a freely and fairly elected government; arrests it's primary opponent; shuts down opposition newspapers, radio and television stations; charged Zelensky's predecessor with treason; and now has outlawed all political parties except Zelensky's and has taken over all remaining newspapers, radio and TV stations.
But it's black and white so go and get your rifle and 5 bullets. Good luck!
The oligarchs were often talented enguneers who through gov connections were able to abscond with much of the countries weLth in a rigged lottery, their apex was engineering yeltsins election in 96 at Davos
their apex was engineering yeltsins election in 96 at Davos
Any Russian or ( Ukrainian) old enough to remember the 1990s, remembers how the West pushed crony capitalism and allowed the oligarchs to steal the wealth of an entire nation. That was the cause of the rise of Putin.
Bill writes, "Of course, you'd be fighting and dying to protect a corrupt Ukraine government that violently overthrew a freely and fairly elected government; arrests it's primary opponent...blah, blah..."
Assuming all of his condemnations of the present government of Ukraine are accurate (Bill is obviously better informed than everyone else, change my mind.) does he believe the successor regime Putin hopes to install would be an improvement?
Any Russian or ( Ukrainian) old enough to remember the 1990s, remembers how the West pushed crony capitalism and allowed the oligarchs to steal the wealth of an entire nation. That was the cause of the rise of Soros.
Nailed it.
Soros we are told wanted a marshall plan for the eastern bloc which misunderstood the problem.
"Putin hopes to install would be an improvement?"
Why did we install a hostile government on Russia's border? Look at a map and see that Ukraine is a lot more useful place to stage an invasion of Russia than an invasion of Europe. If Nato rolled into Russia out of Ukraine, the war would be over before it started, and suddenly now, Western fear of nuclear war seems to be lower on the scale than our hatred for Putin. Putin hasn't even called for regime change in Ukraine. Just that the civil war that we started when we fomented the coup there be resolved by partition, since the Ukrainian regime, composed of hyper nationalists and Neo Nazis, has been waging war on civilians there with heavy weapons, including white phosphorus artillery bombardments, creating refugee problems in Russia.
Look at a map and tell me why Russia should not be threatened by Nato in Ukraine. It's not our concern that Ukraine is a corrupt sewer, but that corruption has infected our own government. It was a huge mistake for Obama to put an openly-for-sale kleptocrat like Biden in charge of utterly corrupt Ukraine, and we are paying for it now.
explain to us unenlightened souls how a shooting war with the Russians doesn't end in nuclear conflagration?
Like I said, if Russia invades Poland (or the Baltics), the cowering folks here would abandon them too and tell them that they are on their own. The U.S. would back off and let them have their way.
Pre-emptive surrender.
We are obligated by article 5, i guess to save europes bacon for the fourth time, germany wont even pony up two percent for its own defense.
Bender: "Like I said, if Russia invades Poland (or the Baltics), the cowering folks here would abandon them too and tell them that they are on their own. The U.S. would back off and let them have their way.
Pre-emptive surrender."
If you cant argue the points/facts on the table, just make up a hypothetical to "win" the discussion.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Crimean_status_referendum
Bender is really good at mind reading and assigning motivations to people he disagrees with, BTW. I wonder who assigned Bender these opinions he seems to believe are his own, neocons like Dick Cheney? See how easy it is to debate like this, Bender? We can avoid the issues entirely.
I was much more naive even into the early years of the iraq war, denying how it was poorly executed
Its an especially "nice" touch to characterize those who disagree with you as "cowering", particularly those of us who served.
narciso said...
We are obligated by article 5, i guess to save europes bacon for the fourth time, germany wont even pony up two percent for its own defense.
****************
No.
According to the NATO website, Article 5 specifically lays out the language:
"The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defense recognized by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area."
So the US is not automatically "obligated" to go to war.
And btw, Germany's defense budget has been increased to above the 2.0% requirement they dodged for years, because of Putin.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/major-shift-europe-germany-spend-113b-defense-rcna17865
Its only europes largest economy , which was recently still focused on agitating poland and hungary for reasons
“Amendment 25 where are you?”
Oooo! Oooo!
Natalie Jaresko has announced that she available for large scale Grift ($1bn and up, please) effective April 1
Long time resident of Ukraine. Now in the us. Former Ukrainian finance minister. Ukraine citizen? US citizen? Both? Neither? Who the fuck knows and she aint saying.
John LGBTQBNY Henry
The Russian government has already said they consider our sanctions a declaration of war. Like everything Russian, there is plenty of bluster in their words. But now Biden has confirmed that. His words can't be "walked back," in that BS phrase. He's the President, unfortunately.
And the Russians say they have used a couple of hypersonic missiles. It has sounded for some time as though China has leapfrogged our military in that area. Now maybe Russia, too. Who can really know? No one commenting on this blog. But we might be quite vulnerable, much more than the average American thinks. Inciting an attack anywhere is dangerous, stupid, and dumb.
Chauncy Gardner woke up? And then screwed up the possibility for peace in Ukraine. Please put a muzzle on the demented idiot.
Don't know if anybody has linked this yet but it's worth a read in full.
I would put it like this: Cold War II is like a strange mirror-image of Cold War I. In the First Cold War, the senior partner was Russia, the junior partner was China — now the roles are reversed. In Cold War I, the first hot war was in Asia (Korea) — now it’s in Europe (Ukraine). In Cold War I, Korea was just the first of many confrontations with aggressive Soviet-backed proxies — today the crisis in Ukraine will likely be followed by crises in the Middle East (Iran) and Far East (Taiwan).
But there’s one very striking contrast. In Cold War I, President Harry Truman’s administration was able to lead an international coalition with a United Nations mandate to defend South Korea; now Ukraine has to make do with just arms supplies. And the reason for that, as we have seen, is the Biden administration’s intense fear that Putin may escalate to nuclear war if U.S. support for Ukraine goes too far.
...
History talks in the corridors of power. But it speaks in different voices, according to where the corridors are located. In my view — and I really would love to be wrong about this — the Biden administration is making a colossal mistake in thinking that it can protract the war in Ukraine, bleed Russia dry, topple Putin and signal to China to keep its hands off Taiwan.
Every step of this strategy is based on dubious history. Ukraine is not Afghanistan in the 1980s, and even if it were, this war isn’t going to last 10 years — more like 10 weeks. Allowing Ukraine to be bombed to rubble by Putin is not smart; it creates the chance for him to achieve his goal of rendering Ukrainian independence unviable. Putin, like most Russian leaders in history, will most likely die of natural causes.
Strongmen want their countries to be strong because in a sense they own their countries and the stronger the country the stronger they are. But strongmen who actually fight corruption are rare indeed. Fighting the corruption that sustains the regime makes the strongman weaker and poorer.
Browndog said...
I said my peace. Sorry to Althouse and her readers for personal back and forth with Greg, but it had to be said.
It stops with me.
You said your piece. It was utter garbage. I called you out on it, so you run away rather than try to defend it
Quaestor said...
-military
HAHAHAHAHAHA
Greg's comments would make an excellent script for a new Hitler rant video
That's an amazing flip on reality.
So, pointing out that you all are making the exact same arguments that let Hitler start WWII is a "Hitler rant"?
effinayright said...
Greg The Class Traitor said...
2: Is it "World War III" if we do so?
Well, it wasn't WW III when the USSR / Russia sent Russian pilots to North Korea to fight and kill American pilots during the Korean War.
It wasn't WW III when the USSR / Russia sent Russian air defense people to North Vietnam to fight and kill American pilots during the Vietnam War.
******************************
In neither case did the Soviets publicly proclaim they were doing those things or threatening that they would before hostilities broke out.
So what? The US military and government both knew, at the time, that the Russians were doing it.
Just like we knew the Chinese troops fighting us in Korea were Chinese troops, but didn't go to war against China. Heck, we didn't even bomb "the Chinese half of the bridge"
In neither case was the USSR making an aggressive war from its territory on one bordering it.
In both cases a USSR client was making aggressive war from its territory.
If this argument is supposed to mean something, I don't understand your point
In neither case did they ever admit during the conflicts that Russian pilots were flying Nork and North Vietnam planes or manning the Vietnam SAM sites. You don't see any Russian in the photos of Jane Fonda (Puke Be Upon Here) at an anti-aircraft site.
So your supposed historical parallels are...skewed. Hopelessly skewed.
You are arguing that words said in public are more important than reality
Puke be upon that, along with Hanoi Jane
Again: I think it would be amazingly stupid for the US to send US troops to Ukraine. I'm entirely against it
But Putin's already launched one aggressive war because his feelings were hurt. No Ukrainian attacks on Russia to justify it, not even fake ones.
He didn't need an excuse to launch this one, he doesn't need an excuse to launch the next one. To stop him what is needed is for the people who have to implement the attack to believe that implementing it is a greater threat to whatever it is that they care about in Russia than not.
Browndog said...
Putin is not trying to rebuild the USSR. He's not a communist.
He has repeatedly publicly mourned the end of the USSR.
This year he was bitching that if the Ukrainians wanted to "get rid of all the Communists" they needed to get rid of Ukraine, because it was supposedly a Communist creation.
He's a kleptocratic dictator who wants to re-create "Greater Russia, which is all the USSR really was.
He doesn't want to do this because he's a Russian Nationalist, he wants to do this because he's a power hungry thug.
The only thing that means anything to Putin is Putin and Putin's power. Everything else is bullshit for public consumption
Drago said...
Greg: "So, what your'e saying is that you're just like the dickies losers who brought about WWII because they couldn't be bothered to stop Hitler when it could be done cheaply?"
"cheaply"
"We must fight them over there so we don't have to fight them here."....
....and 20/30 years later....tens of thousands US military personnel injured and thousands killed, trillions wasted, millions displaced,
"cheaply"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties
The US had 419,400 WWII deaths both military and civilian, > 90% of them military
In less than 4 years.
Compared to that, "20/30 years later....tens of thousands US military personnel injured and thousands killed" is "cheaply".
Just how much of a historical ignoramus are you?
Bill, Republic of Texas said...
Of course you'd be fighting and dying to protect a corrupt Ukraine government that violently overthrew a freely and fairly elected government;
Wow, welcome to fantasy land
From a previous thread:
Viktor Yanukovych was elected President of Ukraine in 2010
He took office
In February 2013, the Verkhovna Rada (Ukrainian parliament) overwhelmingly approved finalizing a political association and free trade agreement with the European Union (EU).
In November 2013, a wave of large-scale protests (known as Euromaidan) erupted in response to President Yanukovych's sudden decision not to sign the agreement, instead choosing closer ties to Russia and the Eurasian Economic Union.
The Revolution of Dignity (Ukrainian: Революція гідності, romanized: Revoliutsiia hidnosti), also known as the Maidan Revolution,[2] took place in Ukraine in February 2014[2][1] at the end of the Euromaidan protests,[1] when deadly clashes between protesters and the security forces in the Ukrainian capital Kyiv culminated in the ousting of elected President Viktor Yanukovych and the overthrow of the Ukrainian government.[1][2]
THe "violence" that happened during the "overthrow" of Yanukovych was the violence by the security services under his control, shooting and killing protesters who were upset at him sabotaging the democratically expressed will of the people of Ukraine, attempting to enslave them to the Russians like Lukashenko did to Belarus
There was never a "should we move closer to Russia" vote of the Ukrainian people that the Russian side won
In 2004, amendments were adopted that significantly changed Ukraine's political system; these changes are sometimes referred to as the 2004 Constitution. In 2010, then-President of Ukraine Viktor Yanukovych reverted these changes on the basis of a ruling made by the Constitutional Court of Ukraine. Following the events of Euromaidan, the 2004 amendments were reinstated.
So, looks like the Ukrainian "Deep State" was under the control of the Russian tool Yanukovych.
Ukraine isn't the US. the "President" isn't the head of government there, that's the Prime Minister.
Yanukovych was elected for one job, worked with corrupt cronies on the "Constitutional Court" to throw out the limits the Constitution placed on his power when he was elected, and was ousted after his attempts to violently suppress the protests against his screwing over Ukraine failed.
It's amazing how "gray" things become when you're freee to lie abotu what happened
Bill, Republic of Texas said...
Greg, here's the website for joining Ukraine in her fight with Russia. It's even in English! You may be the only thing that keeps Russia from marching to the English channel.
Your NPC programming is showing, Bill. That's the "Afghanistan / Iraq" script. It doesn't work in Ukraine, where I'm calling for US dollars to be spent, not bodies
Again, it's so much easier to create "gray" when you feel unconstrained by reality
Of course you'd be fighting and dying to protect a corrupt Ukraine government that violently overthrew a freely and fairly elected government; arrests it's primary opponent; shuts down opposition newspapers, radio and television stations; charged Zelensky's predecessor with treason; and now has outlawed all political parties except Zelensky's and has taken over all remaining newspapers, radio and TV stations.
Since your first claim is utter bullshit (see my last post), you're invited to provide links to back up your other claims.
Note, links for "aren't they horrible, they did this while in an existential fight against Russia" are pretty much going to be blown off. I was a "better dead than Red" kind of guy, part of the "better to scour the Earth with nuclear fire and kill every human being in existence, than let the Russians win" kind of guy.
I'm not going to deny anyone else the right to be the same
Bill, Republic of Texas said...
Any Russian or ( Ukrainian) old enough to remember the 1990s, remembers how the West pushed crony capitalism and allowed the oligarchs to steal the wealth of an entire nation. That was the cause of the rise of Putin.
Wow, so you're a delusional NPC who thinks that only Americans have agency?
"The West" had absolutely no ability to block the Communist nomenklatura from stealing everything they could get their hands on. They were the people running the USSR before it broke up, and once Communism ended they took everything under their control and continued running the place.
What led to the rise of Putin was "terrorist attacks" in Moscow, for which there's some evidence (not proof to my mind, but evidence) that said attacks were actually carried out by Russian security services working to get Putin elected.
1: Not one shred of the corruption ended once Putin got in power. That's because it was an endogenous Russian thing
2: I am amused at Bill ranting about the corruption and power grasping of the Ukrainian oligarchs, while ignoring that they're babes in the woods compared to Putin.
3: If the Ukrainian oligarchs had anything like the control over Ukraine that Putin has over Russia, Zelenskyy would never have been elected President
tim in vermont said...
"Putin hopes to install would be an improvement?"
Why did we install a hostile government on Russia's border?
Another creature who claims that only Americans have agency.
"We" didn't install a "hostile government on Russia's border".
Russia did.
Because EVERY government on Russia's border is either a corrupt dictator proper up by Putin, or a hostile government. That's the fault of Russia, not America
The Yanukovych was driven out by protestors who wanted to be part of the EU, not Russia, and say their dreams sabotaged by a guy who did not legitimately have the power to do so. And he was only driven out after his attempt to use the security services to violently suppress the protesters failed
Look at a map and see that Ukraine is a lot more useful place to stage an invasion of Russia than an invasion of Europe. If Nato rolled into Russia out of Ukraine, the war would be over before it started
You mean, the war would end when Russia nuked the whole world in response?
Would you please pull your head out of your ass?
and suddenly now, Western fear of nuclear war seems to be lower on the scale than our hatred for Putin.
Um, no.
Fear of nuclear war stops us from attacking Russia.
It does not, and should not, cause us to let Russia attack others
Putin hasn't even called for regime change in Ukraine.
You complete fucking liar
1: Putin invaded Ukraine in violation of the Budapest Accords.
There was not the slightest shred of justification for this act of war against Ukraine
2: Putin demands that Ukraine be partitioned, and that the part he doesn't swallow up this time is not allowed to have any allies
So that when he attacks next time, he can easily defeat and absorb what's left.
What Putin is demanding, what he's always been demanding, is the destruction of Ukraine and its re-absorbtion into Russia
The only thing that's ever changed is the timeline of how long it takes to destroy it all
Look at a map and tell me why Russia should not be threatened by Nato in Ukraine
Not so long as Russia has nukes.
Drago said...
Bender: "Like I said, if Russia invades Poland (or the Baltics), the cowering folks here would abandon them too and tell them that they are on their own. The U.S. would back off and let them have their way.
Pre-emptive surrender."
If you cant argue the points/facts on the table, just make up a hypothetical to "win" the discussion.
He IS arguing the "points and facts on the table".
Every single excuse for why we should sit back and let Russia conquer Ukraine applies just as well to the next country on Russia's list
So, either you're a complete fucking moron, or you understand that Putin, and whoever heads Russia next, will ALWAYS have a "next country on the list".
Either you're ready to stop him at the first country on the list, or you're not ready to stop him, ever.
All you in the "fuck Ukraine" Party are in the later group.
tim in vermont said...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Crimean_status_referendum
You know, Tim, I've pointed out what BS this is, multiple times, and you neither response to try to prove me wrong, not stop pushing the same BS
It's really rather pathetic
http://electionresources.org/ua/president.php?election=2010®ion=01
2010 Presidential election vote between Viktor Yanukovych and Yulia Tymoshenko:
February 7, 2010 Runoff Election Results - Autonomous Republic of Crimea
Registered Electors 1,559,474
Voters 1,049,591 67.3%
Invalid Ballots 12,627 1.2%
Against All 34,005 3.2%
Candidate Votes %
Viktor Yanukovych 821,244 78.2
Yulia Tymoshenko 181,715 17.3
So, the idea that 90% of voters came out and voted 90% in favor of separation from Ukraine is so beyond ludicrous that we're at a "no thinking person can believe those results are honest" state of affairs.
Kai Akker said...
The Russian government has already said they consider our sanctions a declaration of war. Like everything Russian, there is plenty of bluster in their words.
Ah, so you're saying it's no big deal to send US troops to Ukraine, because we've already "declared war" against them?
Or are you just so stupid you can't think of any of the consequences of what you post?
And the Russians say they have used a couple of hypersonic missiles.
The Russians "say" all sorts of things.
When the Russians say "we are going to fire a hypersonic missile at point X", then do it, and it works, let us know.
Until then?
Vaporware
Christopher B said...
Don't know if anybody has linked this yet but it's worth a read in full.
No, it's not
But there’s one very striking contrast. In Cold War I, President Harry Truman’s administration was able to lead an international coalition with a United Nations mandate to defend South Korea; now Ukraine has to make do with just arms supplies. And the reason for that, as we have seen, is the Biden administration’s intense fear that Putin may escalate to nuclear war if U.S. support for Ukraine goes too far.
Bzzt. Done now
The Biden* Administration is currently "counting on" the Russians to help them get their insane nuclear weapons "deal" with Iran.
The Biden* Administration said they're be perfectly ok with Russia launching a "minor incursion" into Ukraine, this after cutting US oil production (driving up the price, enriching Russia and Putin), and removing Trump's sanctions on the Nord Stream 2 pipeline, whose sole purpose was to make it so Russia could send natural gas to Western Europe while bypassing (and therefore being able to cut off) Ukraine.
The Biden* Administration is not an ally of Ukraine, nor an enemy of Putin. Their goal was a Putin invasion, followed by Zelenskyy fleeing, propaganda stories all around, while the corruption continued and flowed.
But Zelenskyy screwed that all up, so now they've been forced to actually act against Putin, which they didn't want to do.
Because they're incompetent, they'll fuck it up. But if you don't understand that no one in the Biden* Admin wants Putin to lose, you don't understand enough to be worth reading
Greg: "So, either you're a complete fucking moron, or you understand that Putin, and whoever heads Russia next, will ALWAYS have a "next country on the list"."
Comparing non-NATO nations with NATO nations is not a valid comparison.
In the slightest.
Next you'll be telling us that the US should guarantee the territorial integrity of Belarus.
"Like you pathetic isolationists, he hasn't done and won't do anymore than stand on the sidelines, doing nothing more than shooting off his mouth, while reassuring Putin that the U.S. will NOT engage Russia militarily."
I appreciate you taking time out to post this while currently enroute to Ukraine.
Best of luck.
Drago said...
Greg: "So, either you're a complete fucking moron, or you understand that Putin, and whoever heads Russia next, will ALWAYS have a "next country on the list"."
Comparing non-NATO nations with NATO nations is not a valid comparison.
In the slightest.
Next you'll be telling us that the US should guarantee the territorial integrity of Belarus.
effinayright said...
According to the NATO website, Article 5 specifically lays out the language:
...
So the US is not automatically "obligated" to go to war.
The US cut a deal: Ukraine gives up its nukes, in exchange it's borders are inviolate, and Russia isn't allowed to screw with Ukrainian internal politics
We've all seen how well that's gone.
As effinayright pointed out, there's nothing about "being a member of NATO" that requires the US to intervene after they've been invaded by Russia
Every single one of the arguments you all have made for why it's not right to help Ukraine defend itself can equally be made for any of the Baltic States, Poland, Hungary, etc. et al.
If you're not willing to send Javelins and Stingers to Ukraine, there's no way in hell you're going to support sending US troops, places, etc to defend Poland etc.
After all, "they're in the Russian sphere of interest"
"They're right on the Russian border (now including Ukraine). Hitler started farther away, and still nearly conquered the USSR. Of course they feel threatened by NATO right there on their (new, formerly Ukrainian) border!"
Blah, blah, blah, bullshit, blah.
We've got pretty much the entire world except for China lined up to stop Putin and Russia right now, and you want to throw that away. We've got the Ukrainian people fighting hard for their own country, the Russian military showing major weakness and failure, and you want to throw that opportunity away.
There will never in the future be a better time to stop Putin, and you don't want to stop him now.
Sorry, but I, the Poles, the people living in the Baltic States, and everyone else in the world would have to be total fucking morons to think you're going to be ready to fight later, when you're not willing to fight now.
Greg: "Every single one of the arguments you all have made for why it's not right to help Ukraine defend itself..."
And there it is. The inevitable rewrite of what has been staed and moving of the goalposts by the idiot calling for nuclear war against russia if they dont rid themselves of Putin.
You knew it was coming.
You just knew.
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