"Is that how you viewed Vladimir? Did you view Vladimir Putin and people like President Xi and Kim Jong Un and the Iranian mullahs as enemies that you needed to keep close?"
Sean Hannity asked Trump last night, quoted in "'I got along': Trump avoids criticizing Putin
The former president had several opportunities during a Fox News interview to criticize the Russian leader's invasion of Ukraine, but didn't" (Politico).
Trump answered: "I got along with these people. I got along with them well. That doesn’t mean they are good people. It doesn’t mean anything other than the fact that I understood them and perhaps they understood me — maybe they understood me even better. That’s OK, because they knew there would be a big penalty.... Putin is for Russia, and you see what happened... And that is all because they didn’t respect our leader. Look, there was nobody, and Putin will tell you this — if he was telling the truth, and I am sure he has told it to all of his inner sanctum — nobody was tougher on Russia than me."
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152 comments:
Wasn't that The Godfather II, not Sun Tzu?
Pres Bush... Russia invaded and TOOK Georgia
Pres O'Bama.. Russia invaded and TOOK the Crimean
Pres Trump... Russia sat home and watched the phone; Hoping against Hope that it would ring
Pres Biden... Russia took The Ukraine, China took Taiwan, Mexico and Haiti took the USA
That's exactly what we need: Someone who will get along with Putin, China, NK, etc.
We don't need a bunch of half-crazy dummies talking about "The Axis of Evil" or "Fighting Russia". Part of the reason Putin invaded is because no matter what he did, we kept putting more sanctions on and drawing Ukraine in the orbit of NATO. We refused to give him an inch on anything.
Trump to his credit, tried to rachet down the Putin hate, but he was hysterically attacked by the Liberal MSM and dumbshits like Mittens, Lindsey Graham, etc. as a "Russian agent". The guy on TV currently laughing about $7 Galleon Gas, is called Trump "Putin's cockholster" for just wanting to meet with him.
Russia in NOT the USSR. They are NOT trying to conquer the world. There is no reason they can't have a friendly government in Kiev or adjust the Russia-Ukraine border. None of this affects the USA at all. If Putin invades NATO countries like Poland or Estonia that's different.
It gets you nothing to belittle a powerful world leader.
And it makes for a poor starting point in a negotiation...
OK--This is Walter Russell Mead in 2017, with commentary by Instapundit in July 2021, but I'll say it again:
"If Trump were the Manchurian candidate that people keep wanting to believe that he is, here are some of the things he’d be doing:
Limiting fracking as much as he possibly could
Blocking oil and gas pipelines
Opening negotiations for major nuclear arms reductions
Cutting U.S. military spending
Trying to tamp down tensions with Russia’s ally Iran."
Instapundit: You know who didn’t do those things? Trump. You know who is doing those things? Biden.
Flatter the guy that you're going to negotiate with.
I estimate that I agree with Sean Hannity more than 90% of the time, but I refuse to listen to him interview people, because he talks and interrupts so much.
However, Donald Trump should be interrupted frequently.
Sun Tsu quoting The Godfather.
It is revealing that the elites think it is damning for Trump to have said Putin is "smart." It seems highly likely Putin is smart, in any and all ordinary senses of that term. Of course, as trump says here, that does not mean he is "good." However, to the elites we have now, being "smart" (which is what they prize most about themselves) is the same as being good. This assumption that "smart" is a judgment about a person's character reveals the moral bankruptcy of the prevailing ethos. The enshrining of smart as a moral category produces a morality of human hubris and will. That's what they like.
Only for themselves, of course. However, if you dare to say only the smartest as measured by the usual measures should get into elite high schools, you will be condemned by these eminently superior and smart people for your bigotry.
I'm not impressed with Trump's word salad.
I get that he is trying to say. It's the basics of peace thru strength, but it's a mess. Why give the enemy (in this case- the hack-D press and nancy+Maddow+NBC/Colbert Soviets) ammunition?
Every Hannity interview of Trump follows the same pattern, Hannity leads Trump to water and can’t make him drink. He tries to make Trump look better but makes him look worse. Yet Trump has Hannity believing that they are soulmates. I’ll grant Trump that, he can fool some of the people all of the time.
"If'n the main stream media are fer' it, I'm a'ginst it." Overheard at a truck stop in north Florida.
It is true that Putin saw his window for war, and that window is Biden.
The weak, lying, corrupt, money grifting (from Ukraine no less!) Afghanistan-withdrawal screw-up puppet.
Because 7 years of falsely blaming Russia and Putin for everything bad in America has gone so well for Democrats.
Mike Sylwester said...
However, Donald Trump should be interrupted frequently.
Why? He make Ted Cruz look bad?
Did he embarrass your failed Republican GOPe stooges?
Cruz is scum. He proved it when he called the J6 protestors terrorists.
Ceciliahere--"Sun Tsu quoting The Godfather."
Heh. Good one.
Obama promised Russia he'd have more flexibility--to accommodate Putin's takeover of Crimea--after he was reelected. Joe's incoherent senility suggested his "flexibility" from the get-go (and his Afghanistan fiasco confirmed it). I imagine most everyone, even Democrat supporters, knows this down deep.
Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...
I'm not impressed with Trump's word salad.
I get that he is trying to say. It's the basics of peace thru strength, but it's a mess. Why give the enemy (in this case- the hack-D press and nancy+Maddow+NBC/Colbert Soviets) ammunition?
What ammunition? What the fuck is wrong with you people?
Everything Trump said is obvious and correct.
If you want peace this is how you deal with the world. That is why there was peace under Trump and there is war under Bush/Clinton/Bush/Obama/Biden. You don't get peace acting like Lindsey Graham or Mitt Romney.
You people and your constant bitching about word salads is just ridiculous.
You all should be fighting these wars you are constantly clamoring for.
Left Bank of the Charles said...
Every Hannity interview of Trump follows the same pattern, Hannity leads Trump to water and can’t make him drink. He tries to make Trump look better but makes him look worse. Yet Trump has Hannity believing that they are soulmates. I’ll grant Trump that, he can fool some of the people all of the time.
It is time for Biden/Obama/Bush supporters to go fight these wars.
If you want war in Ukraine go.
Get the fuck out of our country.
Joe Smith said...
It gets you nothing to belittle a powerful world leader.
And it makes for a poor starting point in a negotiation...
No no no no.
You just don't get it.
Trump. Word salad. Putin puppet.
Romney Bush Obama Biden Graham are courageous warriors for freedom. Running Bioweapon labs in Ukraine with US taxpayer dollars is totes OK and damn Russia for objecting to this.
All of these warmongering douchebags need to get off their couch and go defend those labs. Hunter Biden is on the board and he needs to get his 10% for the Big Guy you know.
Genius move. I'm glad his phat wad of plausible deniability is so nice and juicy that you people swallow it whole.
Time for some Bayesian predictability predictions. Put your money on the barrel head!
1) What are the chances Ukraine joins NATO now?
2) What are the chances Ukraine joins the EU?
3) What are the chances of an agreement with Russia that affects the chances of #1 & #2?
4) What are the chances the 2 million Ukrainian refugees return to Ukraine?
5) What are the chances The Donbass and Transnistria become more independent post-conflict?
Btw, if Ukraine doesn't join NATO or the EU, I would propose that Putin has already won, regardless of losses.
I don't understand why people need to pretend that Putin is crazy and stupid. Maybe age is catching up to him, but as I've said before, his initial calculations on Ukraine seemed pretty sound. He thought his military was going to get a quick battlefield victory, and that Western sanctions in response would be mild, mostly just for show, the way they were in response to his earlier invasion in 2014, when Obama was the US president. As of the middle of February 2022, both of those seemed like the most likely outcomes! But the Ukrainians fought back more effectively than expected (not just esprit de corps -- those Javelins are apparently real Wunderwaffen against Russian hardware), and the Russian army turned out to be way worse at everything than anyone expected. I think most US military experts were projecting that he'd take the Ukraine easily and then get stuck fighting insurgents for 20 years. Instead, they couldn't even establish air superiority over the Ukraine, their trucks and tanks are all out of gas, and apparently they're running out of rockets and ammunition.
And while Putin's read of foreign leaders in the US and the EU appears to have been spot on based on their initial reactions, he didn't anticipate that voters would care so much about the Ukraine, forcing reluctant leaders in the US and Germany to take a much, much harder stance against Russia than they were originally signaling. Again, Western experts didn't see that coming either -- if they had, Western leaders wouldn't have had to be pushed by public opinion into stuff like kicking Russia off SWIFT, limiting purchases of Russian gas, or, alarmingly, possibly sending planes into Ukrainian airspace to enforce a "no fly" zone against the Russian air force. Biden and Blinken and the rest were blindsided by public opinion just like Putin was, and are scrambling to find a mix of policies harsh enough to appease the public without risking nuclear war. The recent confusion about Poland's fighter jets reflects this (Blinken seemed to say okay on TV, then the administration said no, and Poland didn't actually bother to coordinate with us before announcing). Our government is working this all out on the fly. US Intelligence figured out that Russia was likely to invade . . but we never came up with a contingency plan for "they invade, it doesn't work, and people start screaming for us to do something."
So Putin isn't someone stupid or crazy -- he's someone who took a rational, calculated gamble, and then got whacked by the geopolitical equivalent of a Black Swan. Any offramps he planned for are useless given how the situation developed. It would be like if Obama had opened hostilities in Syria and then the first thing that happened was 6,000 American soldiers got killed, Syrian anti-aircraft batteries shot down a bunch of American planes, and OPEC countries suddenly refused to sell us any oil. Sure we might have prepared deescalation plans, but that . . would probably not have been one of the scenarios we gamed out. We'd be trying to come up with a solution on the fly.
Putin is probably pretty fucking smart- no use trying to deny this. He is also probably pretty ruthless and amoral. However, all that is irrelevant- he is the leader of the one of the world's two biggest nuclear-capable militaries, and you treat him with respect both face to face and otherwise if you yourself are a political leader. This isn't rocket science- these are the sorts of things most adults learn growing up- adversaries are treated with respect until they show they deserve otherwise. This is why is fucking scary to have Joe "Shit For Brains" Biden as the President- he has earned no respect from anyone, and pretty much every action he has taken since ascending to the office of President has been counter-productive at best, and moronic at worst. The people leading us today are going to destroy the world if they don't change course quickly.
And lo and behold, WSJ today reports regarding Blinken's announced then cancelled Polish MIGs to Ukraine: "The White House is now confirming that the decision went all the way up to President Biden, who vetoed the jet delivery lest it provoke Vladimir Putin and risk escalating the war."
Anybody with sufficient seniority to remember the liberal freak-out over the lack of an agreement between Regan and Gorbachev (also an ex-KGB man) at the 1986 Reykjavík Summit, to say nothing of the 2005 'Overcharge' campaign from Hillary and and her boss Mr. 'The 1980s want their foreign policy back' and 'Tell Vlad I'll be more flexible', has got to have whiplash from watching the Democrats changing position on whether or not we should talk to the Russians, and specifically Putin.
I think Jon B nailed it about Trump's comment.
Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...
"It is true that Putin saw his window for war, and that window is Biden.
The weak, lying, corrupt, money grifting (from Ukraine no less!) Afghanistan-withdrawal screw-up puppet." There is only one saving grace in this and that is the Russian military has been totally unprepared for the Ukrainian resistance. After sixteen days Russia still has not met it's objectives set for the first 48 hours. Aparently the Russian airforce has never practiced combined operations because they are nowhere to be found. If this goes on til April invest in wheat futures.
For seventy-five years, more counting pre WWII time, we've been trying to convince liberals that Russia is Bad Guy. Now. Finally. Is there anything Donald Trump can't do?
It's as if remarking that Hitler was pretty slick, getting to the top of and staying on top of the rat fight of Nazi politics is saying he was a really great guy.
If Zelenskyy doesn't stand up for his people and incite the people of Europe to shame their leaders into action, the whole thing goes according to Putin's plan.
I'm so old I remember when American space-based missile defense systems were going to start WWIII.
The people screaming that then are running the country now.
Trump was following a type of diplomacy which used to be described as, speak softly and carry a big stick. Americans used to be sophisticated enough to understand this kind of thing.
If you don't know what you are doing, neither does your enemy.
-Sun Biden
Stupid and crazy is how they've defined every person that poses a political threat to democrats as far back as I can remember.
If Putin was a woman, he'd be a trailer park whore too.
I always enjoyed the irony of how the most vocal critics of Trump's alleged chumminess with Putin also teneded to be the biggest State-fellators. Yeah, real champions of liberty, that crowd.
Jon Burack @ 9:33 and Balfegor @ 10:06: what you said.
"...And I will give children to be their princes, and babes shall rule over them. And the people shall be oppressed, every one by another, and every one by his neighbour..."
"nobody was tougher on Russia than me"
Wasn't that hard. But toughness without purpose is bluster. What was and is our purpose with regard to Russia? From reset to 2014 coup to Russia=evil to NATO will or won't expand, we've been unclear. Did/do we accept Russia as regional great power with its own sphere of influence, or do we keep trying to put it in its corner and weaken its regime? Of course, "we" the West haven't been unified in the first place--Germany wanted to draw Russia into a web of mutual dependence, which from a German point of view was, and still is, not irrational--even if we just as rationally dislike it.
Howard said...
Genius move. I'm glad his phat wad of plausible deniability is so nice and juicy that you people swallow it whole.
I think Howard needs to get off his fat ass and go protect Hunter and Lindsey's Bioweapon labs in the Ukraine.
You should stop using the Ukrainian people as pawns in your bullshit.
Just admit you are a corrupt shithead and go do you own dirty work.
Look, Trump's dealt with the Putin personality all his life. Every union leader, lot's city and county officials in charge of permitting, politicians of all stripes. All people with some form of chip on their shoulder about not getting the respect they deserve. So Trump respects and schmoozes them while pushing hard for his interests.
Russians had a chip on their shoulder long before the commies took over. So Obama bent over backwards to accommodate them but talked about them like they were punks, and relations were tense. Trump treats them with respect and hems them in while browbeating NATO to get with the program, and relations were calm. Biden has gone with the Obama plan.
Re: Achilles:
Running Bioweapon labs in Ukraine with US taxpayer dollars is totes OK and damn Russia for objecting to this.
Why would we run a bioweapons lab in the Ukraine? I mean, what makes that a plausible story? Sure there's old Communist bioweapons labs here and there around the former Soviet states, but we already have our own better, safer bioweapons labs. Our main interest in Ukrainian labs is probably just making sure that corrupt Ukrainian officials don't sell bioweapons to terrorists.
Balfegor @ 10:06 a.m. ++++ and then some.
Balfegor said...
Re: Achilles:
Running Bioweapon labs in Ukraine with US taxpayer dollars is totes OK and damn Russia for objecting to this.
Why would we run a bioweapons lab in the Ukraine? I mean, what makes that a plausible story?
That the US sends Billions of dollars to Ukraine for a wide variety of things and that these Tax dollars get washed back to the family members of politicians in Washington DC.
We know it is happening. We have the receipts.
Washington DC is just a giant money laundering slush fund.
Sounds like Trump's philosophy was basically, speak softly, but carry a big stick.
Biden's philosophy is, "I think Putin took my slippers."
"OK--This is Walter Russell Mead in 2017, with commentary by Instapundit in July 2021, but I'll say it again:
'If Trump were the Manchurian candidate that people keep wanting to believe that he is, here are some of the things he’d be doing:
Limiting fracking as much as he possibly could
Blocking oil and gas pipelines
Opening negotiations for major nuclear arms reductions
Cutting U.S. military spending
Trying to tamp down tensions with Russia’s ally Iran.'
Instapundit: You know who didn’t do those things? Trump. You know who is doing those things? Biden."
These are all good things. Not that Biden will accomplish them, (and I doubt he is really trying to do so).
YouTube took down Trump’s interview with Joe Rogan for “misinformation”?
👉🏽 https://www.reddit.com/r/JoeRogan/comments/tbfuhv/youtube_removes_todays_full_send_podcast_trump/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
At some point “misinformation” is going to be the honest to goodness reliable truth 😷
Russians had a chip on their shoulder long before the commies took over. So Obama bent over backwards to accommodate them but talked about them like they were punks, and relations were tense. Trump treats them with respect and hems them in while browbeating NATO to get with the program, and relations were calm. Biden has gone with the Obama plan.
I agree and agree that Trump has been dealing with thugs in New York for years.
Why would we run a bioweapons lab in the Ukraine? I mean, what makes that a plausible story?
Why not ? Don't tell me you have started believing Democrats. Nuland admitted it !
Don't worry folks we're in the best of hands!
And they call Trump dumb.....
obert Barnes
Personally, I think its a complete coincidence the children of Biden, Pelosi, Kerry & Romney all got lucrative gigs in Ukraine.
Add all the high profile Ukraine lobbyists, DoD, State Dept, NGO contracts, Ukraine might as well be a P.O. box on a Caribbean Island.
Putin is a bad decision maker. He could have achieved much of what he wants by sabre rattling. Instead, he attacked. Now he is stuck with the following:
--the Ukraine mud season;
--the fact of poor maintenance of Russian military hardware;
--the impossibility of subduing a country with 41 million people that is the size of Texas;
--the reality of offensive urban warfare;
--the reality of a Russian army of conscripts;
--the reality of sanctions;
--the fact that Russia has a population of 140 million that is shrinking;
--the fact that Russian territory extends across 11 time zones and has the world's longest land borders by far;
--the fact that the Peoples' Republic of China is notoriously opportunistic and Sino-centric, and Siberia is rich in natural resources;
--the fact that Ukraine has exposed the Russian military as a paper tiger.
Putin has a number of cards to play, but strategically, attacking the Ukraine was a horrible mistake which will hurt Russia in some surprising ways for years to come.
I think the keyword was respect. Balfegor does a great job explaining the detail, but the summary just because I may not like Russia invading the Ukraine, doesn't mean I can't understand and respect why he did it. My criticism is more like gilbar. I saw publications and "leaders" claim the invasion of Ukraine was unprecedented, as if 2014 Russia invasion of Ukraine didn't happen or Russia invasion of Georgia was ancient news of a bygone era. These were all invasions with Putin as the leader of Russia. Trump's response (whether it actually mattered to Putin or not, aside) was appropriate and may have worked. I'll make the negatives for invading your neighbor bad enough that you'll conclude it better not to invade. Putin is using the same strategy now; you help Ukraine, I'll consider nukes. Operating from a position of strength is hard to criticize. In fact, the valid criticism today is Russia isn't perhaps as strong as Putin thought it was.
"It is true that Putin saw his window for war, and that window is Biden."
Really...what would you have him do? What could any other POTUS have done that would have forestalled Putin's invasion? (What could any other nation have done to forestall our equally criminal invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq?)
Trump's ludicrous lie that he warned Putin "we would hit Moscow,"(if Putin didn't behave), if acted upon, would have initiated a full-blown shooting war between America and Russia. That would have been wonderful, right?
Balfegor said...
Our main interest in Ukrainian labs is probably just making sure that corrupt Ukrainian officials don't sell bioweapons to terrorists.
That would be your interest.
The interest of the Bidens/Grahams/Romneys/Obamas/Bushes was to create a giant slush fund sending US tax dollars to Ukraine and taking kickbacks by installing their families on company boards.
They are deleting all references to these programs right now. Totally transparent.
"U.S. Sen. Dick Lugar applauded the opening of the Interim Central Reference Laboratory in Odessa, Ukraine, this week, announcing that it will be instrumental in researching dangerous pathogens used by bioterrorists.
The level-3 bio-safety lab, which is the first built under the expanded authority of the Nunn-Lugar Cooperative Threat Reduction program, will be used to study anthrax, tularemia and Q fever as well as other dangerous pathogens.”
"Today, Metabiota, the pioneer in epidemic risk modeling, announced it has been awarded a subcontract from Black & Veatch (B&V) to support the U.S. Defense Threat Reduction Agency’s (DTRA) Cooperative Biological Engagement Program (CBEP) in Iraq under the Biological Threat Reduction Integrating Contract (BTRIC). Metabiota has also partnered with B&V on DTRA’s recently awarded Cooperative Threat Reduction Integrating Contract (CTRIC) III with an Indefinite Delivery/Indefinite Quantity (ID/IQ) contract ceiling of $970M."
"If you want peace this is how you deal with the world. That is why there was peace under Trump and there is war under Bush/Clinton/Bush/Obama/Biden."
What "peace" was there under Trump that wasn't there under "Bush/Clinton/Bush/Obama/Biden?" Put another way, what warfare under "B/C/B/O/B" was not there under Trump?
Hear Hear Achilles! Every comment!!! Everybody who wants war..should go fight then.
Browndog said...
Stupid and crazy is how they've defined every person that poses a political threat to democrats as far back as I can remember.
If Putin was a woman, he'd be a trailer park whore too.
You left out racist and Putin puppet.
I agree with Balfegor on Putin. I also think everyone was shocked at how quickly a country could be financially crippled in the modern world.
"If Hitler invaded Hell, I would make at least a favorable reference to the devil in the House of Commons." -- Winston Churchill
'Why would we run a bioweapons lab in the Ukraine?'
Why would we run (funding is running) a bioweapons lab in China?
Now the US Government is telling us it is just shutting down Soviet era weapons labs and destroying their contents.
Since 2005.
17 years to destroy the contents of these labs.
17 years.
17. Years.
If you people enjoy being lied to go for it.
Balfegor, why were we funding a bioweapons lab in *checks notes* Wuhan, China? Two years ago, I'd have laughed at both ideas. Even a year ago I'd have considered it unlikely. Now? I'm forced to accept the thoroughly implausible as entirely possible. Even Sherlock Holmes would have difficulty eliminating the impossible these days.
Why the fuck is a Senator from Illinois negotiating to build and fund a level 3 "Bio-defense" weapon lab in the Ukraine?
"Originally posted on June 18th, 2010, the article "Biolab Opens in Ukraine" details how Obama, while serving as an Illinois Senator, helped negotiate a deal to build a level-3 bio-safety lab in the Ukrainian city of Odessa.
...
A 2011 report from the U.S. National Academy of Sciences' Committee on Anticipating Biosecurity Challenges of the Global Expansion of High-Containment Biological Laboratories explained how the Odessa-based laboratory "is responsible for the identification of especially dangerous biological pathogens."
"This laboratory was reconstructed and technically updated up to the BSL-3 level through a cooperative agreement between the United States Department of Defense and the Ministry of Health of Ukraine that started in 2005. The collaboration focuses on preventing the spread of technologies, pathogens, and knowledge that can be used in the development of biological weapons," the report continues."
You know what they "store" in facilities that study Anthrax? or Sarin?
ANTHRAX AND SARIN.
Other people from other points of view might use a different term.
Something like "Stockpile" comes to mind.
Did this deal Obama "negotiated" help him build his sea wall in his Hawaii mansion?
Gee. You know what else was a level 3 Biolab funded by the US government?
The Wuhan Labs in China.
The widely acknowledged source of COVID.
The disease that "accidentally escaped" from the lab and Just killed a few million people world wide.
These level 3 "Biodefense" labs funded by United States Taxpayers just be popping up all over the damn place.
Nothing is beyond the pail for the Biden Regimen. Angry Birds writ large.
Russian Maj. Gen. Igor Konashenkov, the Russian Ministry of Defense's top spokesperson made the claim about weaponized birds during a press briefing earlier today. He provided no evidence whatsoever to substantiate this assertion.
Glenn Greenwald@ggreenwald 3h
As I recount in the above video report, the NYT -- on Sept 4, 2001: exactly one week before 9/11 -- published an article warning that the CIA was developing bio weapons programs that skirted, if not crossed, legal bans, including with anthrax
"So Putin isn't someone stupid or crazy -- he's someone who took a rational, calculated gamble, and then got whacked by the geopolitical equivalent of a Black Swan."
I don't know. He seems stressed to the max and that goes back to the days before the war.
As for his rational, calculated gamble, well, he was warned by a noted military expert the day before the war began:
"Putin was never going to mount a large scale attack and takeover of Ukraine.
Why not? Because it would fail and he knows it. Modern anti-armor weapons would turn a large scale attack into a bloodbath for an invader. The rpg's we faced in Iraq are toys compared to the man-portable missiles available to Ukraine. They have thousands and, apparently, men willing to put them to use.
And after that failure Russia would be an international pariah cut off from the rest of the world economically on the level of North Korea."
Since he invaded despite my prediction that he wouldn't, he is either stupid (or uninformed about modern military tech), or crazy (possibly), or he is willing to accept the consequence of making his beloved Russia into the new North Korea.
Not until this war broke out did I totally get that Howard is an NPC who swallows every morsel of regime propaganda fed to him and vomits it back up to us, as if we hadn't heard it from the original source (Psaki, Maddow, Chris Cuomo, Joe Scarborough) who spoon fed it to him in the first place.
Putin is just a convenient boogey man.
The real problem is the Pelosi/Clinton/TV news axis.
Running Bioweapon labs in Ukraine with US taxpayer dollars is totes OK and damn Russia for objecting to this.
Probably for the same reason we funded and collaborated with the Wuhan lab. Apparently, there are limits to the religious "ethics" of aborting the baby, cannibalizing her profitable parts, sequestering her carbon pollutants, and have her, too, for social, redistributive, clinical, and fair weather causes.
To echo Balfegor and Kevin: Zellensky is the black swan. Of course, a black swan event is totally unpredictable. As much of a hero as Zellensky truly is, the outcome may ultimately be worse than if Ukraine had rolled over and the West still slept.
Sun Tzu also said that the best generals win without having to fight. The Dems would probably say that Putin won without fighting during the Trump years, because Trump gave Russia what it wanted. What did Russia get from Trump? They will say Trump weakened NATO. But NATO partners failing to live up to their 2% commitment weakened NATO, not Trump's complaints about it. On the flips side, the best way to hurt Russia was to lower energy prices, and low they were during Trump's term. That was winning without fighting.
Balfegor said...
Re: Achilles:
"Running Bioweapon labs in Ukraine with US taxpayer dollars is totes OK and damn Russia for objecting to this".
Why would we run a bioweapons lab in the Ukraine?
For the same reason we were using several cutouts and pumping cash to the Chinese Bio labs
Because Congress said we can't do bio weapons research, but we can play hide the cash and hire it out.
Hannity seems to be a bit two faced.
https://emeralddb3.substack.com/p/what-happened-to-hannity?s=r
The us would not be funding Ukrainian bio labs without a reason. It was not done out of the just goodwill.
My guess as a way to launder research that was probmatic to be done in the us. Perhaps as US Vovid research git outsourced to Wuhan, China.
Or perhaps as a way to get research done cheap.
its more than obvious, Bush, Obama and Biden never even heard of that book. Even BronBron read the first 5 pages.
Robert Cook said...
"It is true that Putin saw his window for war, and that window is Biden."
"Really...what would you have him do? What could any other POTUS have done that would have forestalled Putin's invasion?"
And yet here we are. All the Biden administration had to do was not f*ck up. And now tu lemonde sees us as weak because Biden and his handlers couldn't let the policies that Trump put in place stand. You voted for this. Deal with it.
I'm still baffled why people think making the Uke biolabs safer is the same as creating bioweapons. Niether the Uke labs, nor the American-funded (by an NGO) Wuhan lab, nor the labs in the US (Ft Detrick, IIRC) are making bioweapons. They are indeed studying biological agents that have utility to be bioweapons, but to make bioweapons they have to be WEAPONIZING the agents. Which there is no evidence they are doing so.
As for our recent unpleasantness originating from Wuhan - let's keep in mind that in the early 20th century anthrax was nefariously deployed from within a US-located lab.
Are there research labs with bio agents in Ukraine? Yup. Are they making bioweapons? Nope. Are they skirting the boundaries placed on them? Yep. Just like the EcoAlliance funding was used by Fauci to skirt the boundaries on gain-of-function research.
Last point: I hold no brief for believing the American government's pronouncements nor the mainstream media. But I believe them a whole lot more than I do Russian or Chinese government or media. Those of you who are parroting the Russian propaganda seem to be choosing the opposite. I'd be interested in hearing how you came to the conclusion that Russian state propaganda is more believable than American state propaganda.
Howard,
You mean birds like this?
The military wanted a new type of drone—one that was small, low-flying, and unlike any other machine on the market. So Matt Keennon and his team at AeroVironment built the Nano Hummingbird, a drone that beats its wing like a bird.
That article and video is from 2013.
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/video/the-hummingbird-drone/
Is anyone using them in Ukraine? I don't know.
Are they in the US military arsenal? Yes and have been for some time.
John LGBTQBNY Henry
rcocean said...
That's exactly what we need: Someone who will get along with Putin, China, NK, etc.
Sure, when "get along" means "I slaughtered their mercenaries when they threatened us, sold lethal weapons to Ukraine and other countries they threatened, and let them know that if they stepped out of line I would destroy them."
But that doesn't appear to be what you want.
We don't need a bunch of half-crazy dummies talking about "The Axis of Evil" or "Fighting Russia". Part of the reason Putin invaded is because no matter what he did, we kept putting more sanctions on and drawing Ukraine in the orbit of NATO. We refused to give him an inch on anything.
That's because he's a corrupt expansionist dictator who hates the US.
So people who are actually pro-US don't want him to gain more power, ever. Because we know it will be used against us.
Russia in NOT the USSR. They are NOT trying to conquer the world.
Bzzt
1: The USSR was just the Russian Empire of the time
2: Putin wishes to conquer everything around him. Once he's done that, there will be a new "everything around him" that he will then want to conquer.
You are apparently a complete ignoramus when it comes to history. People like Putin never stop until they're stopped by outside forces. Given that, a rational individual wants them stopped at the earliest point, when they have the fewest resources, and so can do the least damage
There is no reason they can't have a friendly government in Kiev
So apparently the people of Ukraine are subhuman untermenschen to you, and therefore have no right to ahve a government that they want, rather than one that enslaves them to Putin?
You are a sick, twisted individual
or adjust the Russia-Ukraine border.
All I want is peace, peace, pace!
A piece of Poland, a piece of France...
None of this affects the USA at all. If Putin invades NATO countries like Poland or Estonia that's different.
You don't want Ukraine in NATO, and want to turn them over to Putin to be enslaved.
Then, once he's done making them part of his power base, he wants the Baltic Republics. At which point you say the exact same shit you said about Ukraine.
Because The Baltic Republics bring NATO to Russia's borders, and you've already told us that's an illegitimate threat that Putin has every right to respond to by invading said neighboring country.
It's possible to make an argument for not intervening in Ukraine, without making an argument that Russia has the right to invade any neighbor that isn't sufficiently subservient to Putin.
It's rather sickening that you don't even try to make that argument
No, you are rather sickening for making the "Putin has every right to enslave his neighbors" argument
RideSpaceMountain said...
Time for some Bayesian predictability predictions. Put your money on the barrel head!
1) What are the chances Ukraine joins NATO now?
In what time period?
Next 10 years? I say 95%
2) What are the chances Ukraine joins the EU?
Next 5 years? I say 95%
3) What are the chances of an agreement with Russia that affects the chances of #1 & #2?
5%. IMO Z is "negotiating" w/ Russia so he doesn't look too eager to fight to the EUnichs who are currently backing him
4) What are the chances the 2 million Ukrainian refugees return to Ukraine?
95%. It may be after a fairly long guerrilla war between Ukrainian partisans and Russian invaders, but eventually Russia's going to leave, and either take their puppets with them, or leave them behind to get the Quisling treatment
5) What are the chances The Donbass and Transnistria become more independent post-conflict?
Independent of Russia? 99%
Btw, if Ukraine doesn't join NATO or the EU, I would propose that Putin has already won, regardless of losses.
Last I checked, NATOP had not offered to let Ukraine join, and the EU wasn't being that welcoming, either.
The best Putin can get is Ukraine gov't stop talking about doing something they had a less than 50% chance of pulling off anyway
The more likely outcome is that when it's all done Ukraine gets let in on pity to places it otherwise would never have been accepted.
Look, Ukraine is even more corrupt than Greece, and the EU got horribly screwed by letting Greece in. They did not want to make Ukraine part of the Euro.
But Putin's is forcing the EU countries to do a lot of things they didn't want to do
All probabilities ignoring the possibility of a nuclear war destroying the world
“A toast to love on my own terms, those are the only terms anybody ever knows.”- Citizen Kane
MartyH said...
To echo Balfegor and Kevin: Zellensky is the black swan. Of course, a black swan event is totally unpredictable. As much of a hero as Zellensky truly is, the outcome may ultimately be worse than if Ukraine had rolled over and the West still slept.
You sure the West isn't still asleep?
Putin seems to have relied on a bunch of ass kissing generals. Maybe they said "Yeah Boss" and got outta town. Kurt Schlichter explains a lot of things, including maintenance, logistics and more... https://hughhewitt.com/watch-the-show/ As for that "stalled" convoy?https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10601333/New-satellite-images-Ukraine-parts-Russias-40-mile-long-convoy-dispersed.html
As Michael K pointed out... Nuland confirmed the lab(s?)
These ain't Boy Scouts on either side. Certainly not Obama.
Balfegor said...
I don't understand why people need to pretend that Putin is crazy and stupid. Maybe age is catching up to him, but as I've said before, his initial calculations on Ukraine seemed pretty sound. He thought his military was going to get a quick battlefield victory, and that Western sanctions in response would be mild, mostly just for show, the way they were in response to his earlier invasion in 2014, when Obama was the US president.
Read this thread from Trent Telenko:
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1501799537773531136.html
Short of the people, army, and government of Ukraine all just laying down without a fight, Putin's invasion had no chance.
That made it an insanely risky gamble.
The massive corruption of the entirety of Russia, be it government, military, or general economy, just makes things worse:
https://rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/commentary/russian-comms-ukraine-world-hertz
They spent a bunch of money on "secure encrypted communications", and don't see to be using it.
Which is to say, they never got working equipment in any numbers
My current hypothesis about "where's the Russian Air Force" is that the Generals figured out that they don't have the kind of communications they need to keep Russian places from bombing Russia troops rather than Ukrainian ones (both sides use more or less the same equipment. There's no way for a Russian pilot to know from looking that something's a Russian Army tank rather than a Ukrainian one).
It only takes a few "friendly fire" incidents before the troops start shooting at any plane they see, which then gets you more "friendly fire" incidents
(Yes, Ukraine has many of the same plane types as the Russian Air Force.)
They only way it would have been sane for Putin to launch this attack was if he was absolutely convinced that Ukraine would fold without a fight.
IIUC, the Ukraine Army has been resisting the Russians in Donblas for the last 8 years. So I know of no grounds for Putin to reasonably believe that they would fold like a cheap tent
Sebastian said...
"nobody was tougher on Russia than me"
Wasn't that hard. But toughness without purpose is bluster. What was and is our purpose with regard to Russia? From reset to 2014 coup to Russia=evil to NATO will or won't expand, we've been unclear. Did/do we accept Russia as regional great power with its own sphere of influence,
No.
Russia is a corrupt shithole of a third world country with nuclear weapons. It is not in any meaningful sense a "Great power", and it's entirely in the US interest to keep it that way so long as Russia is run by corrupt "ex"- communists who hate America more than anything else in the world.
or do we keep trying to put it in its corner and weaken its regime?
Well, that's what you do if you've paid any attention to history, and the costs of letting someone build a militarily expansive empire
Howard said...
Nothing is beyond the pail for the Biden Regimen. Angry Birds writ large.
Howard didn't care when the Federal Government made up the Russian Collusion Hoax to spy on Hillary's political opponents.
We were lied to repeatedly by these shitheads.
Howard cheered it on.
Howard didn't care when all of the "misinformation" on COVID was censored by the corporations and all of that misinformation turned out to be true.
COVID leaked from a US funded lab in Wuhan China. Fauci lied about it. Then he was caught in his lie.
Now the US government has told us for years there were no Bioweapons labs in Ukraine.
And there they are.
Our government has been caught in lie after lie after lie after lie.
At this point it is on the people who support this.
You are just liars.
Big fat disgusting shit faced liars.
Robert Cook said...
"If you want peace this is how you deal with the world. That is why there was peace under Trump and there is war under Bush/Clinton/Bush/Obama/Biden."
What "peace" was there under Trump that wasn't there under "Bush/Clinton/Bush/Obama/Biden?" Put another way, what warfare under "B/C/B/O/B" was not there under Trump?
Are you really that unable to read?
2nd comment: gilbar said...
Pres Bush... Russia invaded and TOOK [parts of] Georgia
Pres O'Bama.. Russia invaded and TOOK the Crimean
Pres Trump... Russia sat home and watched the phone; Hoping against Hope that it would ring
Pres Biden... Russia invaded Ukraine
So, RC, some simple questions:
What territorial expansion of Russia happened under President Trump?
To compare and contrast, what territorial expansion of Russia happened under Obama / Biden?
Did that expansion happen through peaceful exchange and diplomacy, or by the threat and use of military force?
Seriously?
Rabel said...
Modern anti-armor weapons would turn a large scale attack into a bloodbath for an invader. The rpg's we faced in Iraq are toys compared to the man-portable missiles available to Ukraine. They have thousands and, apparently, men willing to put them to use.
"We've" apparently sent on teh order of 17,000 anti-tank weapons to Ukraine.
I've seen people gleefully compare that to "the Russians only have 12,000 tanks total!"
1: Not all those 17k are Javelins
2: Not even the Javelin is a "One weapon, one kill" weapon (some people carrying them are going to get killed without ever having a chance to fire the missile, some will miss, and some will be where there are no good targets).
But yes, the current battlefield seems to be very pro-infantry, at the moment. Especially if they have good communications.
Lets do a little thought experiment.
We invade Iraq and we find what the Russians just found at Odessa, Ukraine. A level 3 Bioweapons lab. Anthrax, smallpox, Sarin, SARS flu strains tested on bats.
Oh and it was funded by Russia. Russia claimed it was for "Bio defense."
Oh by the way Putin's son in on the board of the company operating the lab. There are dozens of US senators kids and government bureaucrats are raiding the "Foreign Aid" slush fund that is paid for by US tax dollars.
Medvedev, the president before Putin "negotiated" the opening of the facility 10 years before we invaded but the Russian government is trying to delete all references to this in the internet.
Totes cool right?
We all good?
Now lets put that Odessa site in Mexico. How about Tijuana. But that isn't enough. We need to have 30 of these labs spread out all over Mexico. But it turns out Russia actually has over 300 of these labs all around the world.
And it was Russia that funded the Wuhan lab that produced COVID and killed a few million people around the world.
I am sure that would go down totally cool with the fucking warmonger shitheads like Howard.
Our corrupt government and the demented sock puppet shitting his pants in he oval office is 100% responsible for this war.
The pain and suffering being inflicted on the Ukrainian people is completely and totally on this regime and it's supporters.
This is completely fucked up.
" and Putin puppet."
I find the idea of Putin with his hand up his own ass rather amusing.
TheOne Who Is Not Obeyed said...
Last point: I hold no brief for believing the American government's pronouncements nor the mainstream media. But I believe them a whole lot more than I do Russian or Chinese government or media. Those of you who are parroting the Russian propaganda seem to be choosing the opposite. I'd be interested in hearing how you came to the conclusion that Russian state propaganda is more believable than American state propaganda.
Cause Owning the Left is all that matters to some people.
A random thought about the results of war: The Russkies will now have some number of Javelins available to them. Whether they can exploit them or not is an open question.
"Really...what would you have him do? What could any other POTUS have done that would have forestalled Putin's invasion?"
Not made a deal with Ukraine to pave the way into NATO in November, a decision that was certain to enrage Putin. The fact that Biden didn't pick up the phone and talk to Putin... He preferred war.
The fact that there were no new wars under Trump really rankles neocon enablers like Cook. (I know you will deny it indignantly) Trump was far from perfect, but not starting any new wars, and not skating us to the edge of WW3 the way the three administrations involving Joe Biden has is not nothing, no matter how much you nitpick. Trump opposed the imperial vision of US power, and that was reason enough to get rid of him.
twitter/cdrsalamander an excellent reference for this
Zombie empires. Putin thinking Russia is the superpower it once was. Biden and Blinken thinking the US is still the global monopower it once thought it was. Democrats thinking our goal should be forever tightening the noose on Russia, when its only a shadow of what the USSR was. Putin thinking he can just take over other countries, like Catherine the Great or Stalin did.
"What could any other POTUS have done that would have forestalled Putin's invasion?"
Stronger U.S. defense
Sanctions on Nordstream
Relax restrictions on U.S. energy production
Don't give mixed messages on a potential invasion (i.e. the "minor incursion" comment)
The total ineptness of the Afghanistan withdrawal
Going back to the Iran nuclear deal (Russia playing key role in negotiations)
General high level of incompetence from this administration
"The only way it would have been sane for Putin to launch this attack was if he was absolutely convinced that Ukraine would fold without a fight."
Before the invasion, I told my wife that Putin would get what he wanted without firing a shot. I thought he was posturing for NATO consumption, and I'm not convinced I was wrong about that. Putin probably thought that Biden and the rest of NATO would come to him hat in hand and sell out the Ukes, with Zelenskiy's cooperation. Turns out that Zelenskiy isn't as easy to buy as the Ukrainians Biden is accustomed to dealing with.
Maybe Putin fooled himself because of the successful stats he rung up in Syria. Isn't one of the structural flaws of tyrannical leadership: incompetent management, sherking blue collars and the systemic denial in an ocean of cya yes men. Trump's compliments also fed into Vlads megalomania. The OP Sun Tzu reference suggestions Don a Double Agent mindfucking the short dictator into making a fatal error. Does he stroke a white cat in his lair? Does he enjoy fighting off internal plots?
Ain't no Black Swan like war. I've called Putin crazy not because I think he's clinically nuts (though I don't rule it out) but because he seems to have taken enormous risks with a very brittle instrument.
As the philosopher Allen put it, you want to make God laugh? Tell him about your plans.
Back in Cold War days, some Western experts predicted that the Sovs, if they attacked in Europe, intended to send in the first waves with the full expectation that they would be essentially destroyed. Then the stockpiled tanks and bmps in the quickly mobilized reserve echelons would be thrown in.
That was at a time when the Soviet Army had trained reservists and plenty of older but still serviceable equipment available. AFAIK neither of those obtain today, and making war hasn't gotten any cheaper since then.
I saw one video referencing the Russian vehicle repair capacity, which was never their strong suit before. Apparently they have better and modern facilities now--that depend on
German tech imports to work.
Robert Cook said...
"It is true that Putin saw his window for war, and that window is Biden."
"Really...what would you have him do? What could any other POTUS have done that would have forestalled Putin's invasion?"
1: Don't completely fuck up in Afghanistan, showing that your'e weak and pathetic, and not to be feared
2: Continue to sell Ukraine lots of anti-tank and anti-air weapons
3: NOT say that a "minor incursion" by Russia would be ok.
4: Don't remove sanctions on the Nord Stream 2 pipeline
5: Don't fight to destroy the proposed Israeli natural gas pipeline to Europe
6: Don't fight to destroy US oil production. The Biden Admin caused the price of gas to rise over 50% BEFORE Putin invaded Russia, by their all out "climate change!!11!" assault on the production of fissile fuels in the US. This:
A: Made Putin richer, because his main source of income is oil, and Biden made it more expensive for everyone
B: Made Putin more powerful, since removing American sources of oil production makes Europe more dependent upon Russia production, making the EU weaker and Russia stronger
That's off the top of my head. I'm sure I can come up with more Biden* Admin failures with a little effort
Achilles said...
The pain and suffering being inflicted on the Ukrainian people is completely and totally on this regime and it's supporters.
No, it isn't.
it's entirely, completely, 100% Putin's
Ukraine was absolutely no threat to Russia. The only "threat" their joining NATO would ahve posed to Russia is to take away Russia's ability to bully / enslave Ukraine.
Why are you being such a pro-America-hating-dictator douchebag?
"Really...what would you have him do? What could any other POTUS have done that would have forestalled Putin's invasion?"
Not looking like a total cluster fornication might have been helpful. Like it or not (and I don't) whatever Orange the Clown was doing seemed to have worked in preventing Putin from doing what he is doing now. Whatever the hell Biden's plan was, it obviously failed. That's the reality of the situation. It won't change just because we don't like it.
TheOne Who Is Not Obeyed said...
A random thought about the results of war: The Russkies will now have some number of Javelins available to them.
I would guess they already bought a whole bunch for the Taliban post Biden's Afghanistan failure
TheOne Who Is Not Obeyed said...
Last point: I hold no brief for believing the American government's pronouncements nor the mainstream media. But I believe them a whole lot more than I do Russian or Chinese government or media. Those of you who are parroting the Russian propaganda seem to be choosing the opposite. I'd be interested in hearing how you came to the conclusion that Russian state propaganda is more believable than American state propaganda.
Russian Collusion. Covid Lock downs. Fauci/HIH funding Wuhan Labs. Ukraine Impeachment.
They have lied to you about everything.
You are just being really fucking stupid right now. Go support Mitt Romney who is all over TV right now trying to start world war 3.
You deserve to be lied to.
Assad offered Putin 16,000 fighters for Ukraine, but wants them to be paid. Putin wants them, but so far only willing to pay transport. Belarus wants to attack Kyiv, so far Putin telling their tin pot dictator to hold his horses.
Robert Cook said...
Really...what would you have him do? What could any other POTUS have done that would have forestalled Putin's invasion?
What Trump did:
Keep the price of oil low. Open up US energy production and turn the country into a net energy exporter.
Recognize Putin was the leader of a regional power with interests. Respect those interests.
Ruthlessly kill Russian mercenaries in places they didn't belong.
Not shit his pants in public or cackle babble like that idiot in the VP office.
In the end this is about the WEF taking over Russian natural resources and conquering that country and handing it off to western corporations.
"All the Biden administration had to do was not f*ck up. And now tu lemonde sees us as weak because Biden and his handlers couldn't let the policies that Trump put in place stand. You voted for this. Deal with it."
What "policies" were put in place by Trump? And how did these alleged "policies" keep Russia in check? Do you think it was because Putin was afraid Trump would "hit Moscow," as Trump has dishonestly and ludicrously claimed was his warning to Putin?
If, by "you voted for this," you presume I voted for Biden, you are wrong. I voted Green Party, as I have since 1996. No Dem/Republican candidates we have had since then warranted my support, and from all signs, there will be none warranting my support going forward.
"Stronger U.S. defense
Sanctions on Nordstream
Relax restrictions on U.S. energy production
Don't give mixed messages on a potential invasion (i.e. the "minor incursion" comment)
The total ineptness of the Afghanistan withdrawal
Going back to the Iran nuclear deal (Russia playing key role in negotiations)
General high level of incompetence from this administration"
So...you've got nothing.
And...WTF does "Strong U.S. defense" even mean? We already spend more on our War Department than most of the world's major nations combined. Yet, we have not fought a war of defense since WWII. We are squandering the people's treasure--which could go to subsidizing higher education and healthcare, rebuilding/maintaining public infrastructure, and many programs to directly help US citizens--on a bloated money pit that benefits only those making fortunes off of it.
"The fact that there were no new wars under Trump really rankles neocon enablers like Cook."
"Neocon enablers?" HAHAHAHAHA!!
"No new wars?" Not good enough. He didn't end our engagement in Afghanistan. Biden did at least that much,(though he was vigorously in favor of those wars when he was in Congrss). Trump maintained the wars initiated by his predecessors, thereby continuing our murder and destruction abroad.(I wonder which of the wars we have fought these past two decades you objected to from the start? Any?)
Ukrainians thought of Russians as brothers, cousins. Now, the hate will be generational.
our equally criminal invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq
As I've said to several people who have made this comparison, online and off: "If you really can't tell the difference between the USA and freakin' Russia, nor the difference between Afghanistan/Iraq and Ukraine, then you truly have nothing to say on the matter."
Trump's compliments also fed into Vlads megalomania. The OP Sun Tzu reference suggestions Don a Double Agent mindfucking the short dictator into making a fatal error.
Yes, we are seeing how well bluster and threats work. Especially with a State Department that looks like Christmas coffee boy.
Trump opposed the imperial vision of US power, and that was reason enough to get rid of him.
Trump preferred economic war, like driving down world gas prices to hobble Russia.
Those options are just not available to Democrats because they have no idea how economics works. Biden thinks bribery is economics.
As to the Ukrainian bio labs capabilities, we shouldn't mistake absence of evidence for evidence of absence. To say with certainty that there is no capability of weaponization in a country as corrupt and lacking in basic government oversight mechanisms as Ukraine, is to merely engage in wishful thinking.
To go on to smear anyone who expresses doubt about the labs' weaponization capabilities as unpatriotic weakens the argument fatally. Particularly after witnessing the coordinated campaign to suppress any mention of a possible Wuhan lab role in the COVID epidemic, we should be skeptical of all US agencies' spin about the labs and the Defense Dept. role in funding and determining use of research.
Finally, I would expect that anyone who supported the Iraq war as justified based on supposed existence of Saddam's WMD (I.e., bio weapons) capabilities would acknowledge that the same principle might justify the Russian intrusion. Otherwise, you're simply saying "It's different when we do it," which is hardly a rules-based world order.
Robert Cook said...
What "policies" were put in place by Trump? And how did these alleged "policies" keep Russia in check? Do you think it was because Putin was afraid Trump would "hit Moscow," as Trump has dishonestly and ludicrously claimed was his warning to Putin?
We have spelled this out with crayons for you. You are just being a fucking moron on purpose.
If the price of oil is low, Putin gets less money and can't afford to attack people.
The obvious easy answer here is for the US to be energy independent like it was under Trump.
Only a complete idiot can't figure that out.
If you don't keep pushing corrupt bullshit in Ukraine and you actually want to investigate the corruption going on there Putin doesn't get spooked.
Maybe you don't foment coups in Ukraine too.
And you certainly don't open up a bunch of "Bio Defense" labs and research new Coronavirus strains 100 miles from Russia's border.
You can whine and bitch and play stupid all you want. The proof is in the pudding. Trump is the only President during whose administration Russia didn't invade a neighbor and he didn't start any new wars.
Deal with it.
Browndog said...
Ukrainians thought of Russians as brothers, cousins. Now, the hate will be generational.
I don't think this is true.
Russians have been killing Ukranians for centuries. Stalin killed millions of Ukrainians.
The Slavic Spring, 32 trimesters in progress, with the same catastrophic climate as others in the Spring series. Zelensky needs to abort his toxic relationship with his Western, Eastern enablers, users, and offer reconciliation and remediation to the Ukrainian people and neighboring nations. Close the medical labs, end the probable enrichment regimes, and the civil war between his regime, indigenous, and native people.
our equally criminal invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq
The first (through Bush, Clinton, Bush admin) or second (i.e. Obama admin) Iraq war? The reconciliation or the impulsive exit that left billions of dollars in state of the art military housewarming gifts, and diverse forward-looking collateral damage? Catastrophic Anthropogenic Immigration Reform? Perhaps the world war from Tripoli to Cairo to Damascus to Kiev and others outside and in between?
I'm starting to think the world take over by virus / elites/ crony communists - is underway - this is just part of the show to change our way of life, and force everyone to knuckle-under.
The cabal of top dems are probably in on it.
I spent 20 years in the Air Force — F-111s — Desert Storm, and Pentagon tour (NATO planning staff), among other things. And, yes, I’ve been retired for 22 years, and, aside from conceptually, didn’t have to concern myself with ground component matters all that much.
Throat clearing done, Greg the Class Traitor has completely nailed it.
For Putin to succeed, the Ukranians would have to welcome the Russians as liberators. I’ve been to a fair number of Baltic countries, as well as the region once known as Yugoslavia. They *hate* the Russians. Putin must be delusional to ignore the plethora of reasons for the Ukranians to have their hate dialed to 11.
A 90 mile canalized road march, easily enfilladed by small units from scouted positions? And that’s the easy part.
The decision to invade Ukraine will go down as the stupidest ever.
Oh, and proving Polish MiG-29s to the Ukranians would have been nonsense on stilts.
Those MiGs are air defense fighters. They would be as useless as a kick-stand on a tricycle.
RMc said...
our equally criminal invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq
As I've said to several people who have made this comparison, online and off: "If you really can't tell the difference between the USA and freakin' Russia, nor the difference between Afghanistan/Iraq and Ukraine, then you truly have nothing to say on the matter."
I personally participated in invading both of those countries. We helped put girls in schools and killed a bunch of shitty people.
But we were undermined in our efforts specifically and deliberately by our own government.And there are obviously a bunch of very corrupt people in our government that are profiteering from all the wars they are starting.
They have been lying to us for decades. The last 6 years have been one lie after another.
Cook is being purposely stupid on some things but you people are going to have to accept there the Romney/Bush/Obama/Clinton/Biden regime is on the same moral corruption level as the Chinese and Russian Regimes.
And that is on us.
Parting shot.
Clausewitz had a one liner that is particularly appropriate here: Defense is to offense as three is to one.
(God but he was flatulently wordy, but often right.)
Jesse Watters points out Congress critters made profitable investments in oil and fertilizer stuff pre war. What Luck Eh?
I just realized Trump called Biden “our leader”.
That’s something.
Russians have been killing Ukranians for centuries. Stalin killed millions of Ukrainians.
Yea, well they weren't around then. A large percentage of Ukrainians have relatives in Russia.
Tons of reporter interviews and social media to base my observation off of. Interestingly, when Ukrainians call their family back in Russia to tell them the Russians just shelled their apartment building and are hiding in basements, they don't believe them. All this is being hidden from the Russian public.
"Those MiGs are air defense fighters. They would be as useless as a kick-stand on a tricycle."
I'm not sure I understand this statement. The fighters would certainly help in denying the Russians air superiority. They can also be used as multirole fighters. In any case, my guess is the Ukrainians have a better understanding of what they need and can use than any of us do.
I used to think "But Trump" was the go to non-sensical response from the Left. Now its clearly the non-sensical retort coming from both directions.
Kurt Schlichter said Ukraine's best pilots are in the air and busy. More Planes???
One person really tops Don with word Salad.
Kamala. Wow. She is word salad central.
Hey Skipper said...
Oh, and proving Polish MiG-29s to the Ukranians would have been nonsense on stilts.
Those MiGs are air defense fighters. They would be as useless as a kick-stand on a tricycle.
************
They would not be useless against Russki aircraft.
Chris Lopes said...
I'm not sure I understand this statement. The fighters would certainly help in denying the Russians air superiority. They can also be used as multirole fighters.
It means that MiG-29's are set up to shoot down enemy aircraft and aren't really suited for ground support or taking out ground based weapons. Since the Russian Air Force isn't doing much in Ukraine and most of the mass casualties are coming from artillery and ground based missiles there's not much need for an air defense fighter.
In any case, my guess is the Ukrainians have a better understanding of what they need and can use than any of us do.
They do, which is why they want a NATO No Fly Zone since US F-16's can be set up to hunt down and bomb the shit out of ground based weapons.
What "policies" were put in place by Trump? And how did these alleged "policies" keep Russia in check? Do you think it was because Putin was afraid Trump would "hit Moscow," as Trump has dishonestly and ludicrously claimed was his warning to Putin?
Cook is unteachable. Multiple commenters have explained why Putin did not invade when Trump was president. He still hates this country and all of us who are not entranced by his fairy tales of the perfect world of communism.
"As I've said to several people who have made this comparison, online and off: 'If you really can't tell the difference between the USA and freakin' Russia, nor the difference between Afghanistan/Iraq and Ukraine, then you truly have nothing to say on the matter.'"
The essential similarities, rendering any fine differences moot, are that two dominant global powers each decided to pound smaller, poorer countries with their greater military might, wreaking death, destruction, and grievous injuries on men, women, and children, rendering countless numbers of their citizens into refugees, creating orphans and parents grieving dead children. For no legitimate reasons. We are no less criminal murderers than Russia.
"The first (through Bush, Clinton, Bush admin) or second (i.e. Obama admin) Iraq war?"
Was there really a distinction?
No war
No inflation
full employment
hour long Q&A with the press
gave is salary to charity
What did T get wrong. Oh yes a loud mouth and nasty tweets.
Chris Lopes: I'm not sure I understand this statement. The fighters would certainly help in denying the Russians air superiority. They can also be used as multirole fighters.
Air superiority requires a great deal more than just fighters. On their own, air defense fighters are practically blind. In the face of anything like competent air defense systems, without suppression assets, they are very vulnerable. Unless they are low-observable. The Ukrainians do not have sufficient command & control, are without anything like HARMs, and the MiG-29 is just as observable as Pelosi at a pro-life rally.
For them to be useful in the ground attack role, then they have to be able to delivery precision guided munitions from standoff ranges, with ingress at very low altitude and high speed.
Pilots and planes just don't wake up one day able to do that.
effinayright: They would not be useless against Russki aircraft.
Russian aircraft aren't a problem.
The reason they aren't a problem is precisely the same reason shifting Polish MiG-29s to the Ukranians won't solve a thing.
"They do, which is why they want a NATO No Fly Zone since US F-16's can be set up to hunt down and bomb the shit out of ground based weapons."
You want US troops to directly attack Russian forces?
A no fly zone is a cute aphorism, but it truly means a declaration of war as any enforcement would mean US troops attacking Russian forces.
Left Bank of the Charles said...
Every Hannity interview of Trump follows the same pattern, Hannity leads Trump to water and can’t make him drink. He tries to make Trump look better but makes him look worse. Yet Trump has Hannity believing that they are soulmates. I’ll grant Trump that, he can fool some of the people all of the time.
3/11/22, 9:34 AM
I don't get why otherwise intelligent people are surprised that the working class feels some affinity for Donald Trump. Yes, his public persona is what a below average intelligence thinks a billionaire is like. But half the public is, by definition, below the 50th percentile! Besides which, are Western liberals sure they want to mentally go down that road? (If they were, they'd have a chance of bringing certain minorities back to their coalition.) For all that, I must admit: it's pretty rare that I meet anyone in the working class that appreciates Hannity as the top ranked radio star. Blergh.
Above average intelligences that don't exploit the American worker appreciate Trump for a variety of reasons, a new one being that he wasn't likely to start a nuclear war with Russia.
“Russians have been killing Ukranians for centuries. Stalin killed millions of Ukrainians.”
First sentence is not based on facts. Second sentence is a non sequitur.
‘Holodomor’ was a part of Great Soviet Famine of 1931-34, which was a crime agaist humanity perpetrated by Soviet Communist rulers. Stalin was a Soviet Communist Party boss. Stalin was ethnic Georgian and his henchman in charge of grain expropriations in Ukraine was Khrushchev, ethnic Ukrainian. Obviously, their ethnicity is irrelevant, they were driven by Communist ideology.
Estimates vary, but I saw a figure of about 11 million people dead of hunger across Soviet Union during that famine. Ukrainians constituted about 40% of all victims, while accounting for about 20% of USSR population. Ukranians suffered very hard, yet they were not the only victims. Per capita, Kazakh people suffered the most.
That was not the only famine in USSR history. In 1921-22, about 5 million people died of Volga river famine, which Communists also caused and then exploited (by stealing donations). People in Volga river basin were mostly Russians and ethnic minorities (Tartars and others).
20th century famines occurred almost exclusively in countries under Communist regimes. Chinese communists starved to death tens of millions later. Communists perpetrated mass murders indiscriminately. For them it was not about ethnicity, it was strictly about economics.
Any efforts to present Communist atrocities in racial terms use horrible history to create mayhem in present day, just as we see in Ukraine.
We are no less criminal murderers than Russia.
Who's we? You got a mouse in your pocket?
It's always been trendy for left-leaning types to insist that "AmErIcA iS jUsT aS bAd As RuSsIa!!!!eleven!!" Sorry, not buying it. Take your self-flagellating crap someplace else.
”Cook is unteachable. Multiple commenters have explained why Putin did not invade when Trump was president. He still hates this country and all of us who are not entranced by his fairy tales of the perfect world of communism.“
No one has explained why Putin did not invade Ukraine during Trump’s administration. The “explanation” is simply Trump…which is no explanation at all.
As for Putin “hating this country and all who are not entranced” by him, that is a complete non-sequitur. And narcissistic. Do you believe his attack on Ukraine is his way of striking at us? Other nations have their own circumstances and motives, and the US is not the central impetus for most of what they do.
Trump did not try to expand NATO into Ukraine. He also kept Putin on a leash by not allowing the Nord Stream pipeline and by keeping oil prices low.
Biden is less of a criminal murderer than Putin. Unfortunately he and his team are incorregictly stupid. National narcissism plays a role there. How could we not think that adding Ukraine to NATO wouldn't be seen by the Russians as a threat? How could we think that stifling domestic oil production would either appreciably improve the environment or allow us to go on swaggering on the world stage like kings?
ga6 said...
No war
No inflation
full employment
hour long Q&A with the press
gave is salary to charity
What did T get wrong. Oh yes a loud mouth and nasty tweets.
He demanded an investigation into the corruption in Ukraine which involves a huge number of people in DC from both parties.
This investigation probably would have turned up all of the "Biodefense" labs that Mitt Romney and Barrack Obama are profiting off of.
I think we now know why Mitt went so easy on his business partner Barrack now don't we?
Robert Cook said...
No one has explained why Putin did not invade Ukraine during Trump’s administration. The “explanation” is simply Trump…which is no explanation at all.
I gave you several points.
They were specific and detailed.
You are just pretending they are not there because you are ideologically possessed and refuse to see them.
You are quite transparent to everyone Cook. Everyone sees what you are doing.
Putin invaded cause he saw:
1) Biden f*cked up the oil industry here.. giving Putin leverage via oil sales.
2) Biden f*cked up the Afghanistan withdraw... giving Putin the idea Biden would f*ck up a war.
3) Biden (and Pelosi) f*cked up and spent trillions of $$$s, increasing inflation (as did f*cking up the oil industry) and would be unable to finance any real military action on Putin.
4) Biden kept up with the COVID mask mandate and stay-at-home ****ck and f*cked up the economy more.
Putin's mistake was the Ukrainian people. Like when the USSR invaded Afghanistan, and the US went in militarily into South Vietnam, he underestimated the will of the opposition. It is going to be a LONG WAR..
Spring is coming. If the Ukraine does not start planting for the growing season because of Putin's war.. there will be some serious food shortages around the world.
Mass starvation along with stagflation and a chance of nuke war... All cause Biden f*cked up.
Trump had NOTHING to do with this.
Blogger Hey Skipper said...
"Oh, and proving Polish MiG-29s to the Ukranians would have been nonsense on stilts.
Those MiGs are air defense fighters. They would be as useless as a kick-stand on a tricycle."
And you know this how?
Ukraine is now living in a bad neighborhood and you want the the good people in that neighborhood to be unarmed?
You have no idea whether they would help or not because you have no idea in what kind of capacity they'll be used.
Rober Cook queried
"What "policies" were put in place by Trump? And how did these alleged "policies" keep Russia in check?"
Trumps policies drive the price of oil down by increasing domestic production. Sine Russia's revenue is highly dependent on oil sales this hampered his buying power. It also left him with the impression that Trump was not someone to mess with. He was, in Putins eyes, a strong leader. Whereas after the Biden administrations out right debacle in Afghanistan Putin rightly concluded that America was weak and not up to challenging him-Putin.
Achilles said...
In the end this is about the WEF taking over Russian natural resources and conquering that country and handing it off to western corporations.
Bullshit
In the end this is about the fact that Putin is a virulently anti-American expansionist dictator who will be only stopped by a gun to his head, or bullets in his body.
And everyone who knows anything about history knows that the sooner you stop such people, the less it costs
Jim Goad said it first, but I'll be the first to steal it--
Say what you want about Putin, at least he cured COVID.
Achilles said...
In the end this is about the WEF taking over Russian natural resources and conquering that country and handing it off to western corporations.
Are you really that ignorant and stupid?
The WEF HAD all of Russia's natural resources.
The whole point of the Nord Stream 2 pipeline, that Trump stopped, and Biden* started up again before being forced to reverse, was to make it so Russia could send natural gas to Western Europe and Germany while bypassing Ukraine.
Russia is a kleptocracy where the ruling elite use the resource extraction businesses as their personal piggy banks while they slowly run them into the ground. They were MORE than happy to sell to the WEF.
Putin LOVES the WEF. "hey, you guys want to turn the West into dictatorships following my lead? Awesome!"
It's not the WEF driving the fight against Russia. It's not "Wester Elites" (all of whom hate Western Civilization as much or more than Putin does) driving it.
It's the people of the West, who actually value freedom, and don't think it's cool for Putin to enslave the Ukrainians.
You, rcocean, and Sebastian are the biggest tools of the WEF on this forum. You are the biggest promoters of censorship, election fraud, and political corruption on this forum.
Because when you embrace Putin, censorship, political and economic corruption, government without the consent of the governed, and the destruction of honest elections is what you're embracing.
What this war is abotu is freedom for he Ukrainian people from being enslaved by Russia.
If you don't want it happening here, you damn well ought not to be normalizing and celebrating it over there.
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