"They did not equip me to argue, to think on my feet, to turn anger into persuasive language. And after 11 years together, four married and three as parents, my husband and I still can’t calmly work things out when we clash; there are no family meetings in our home. So we text.... We deploy the couples communication skills we’re constitutionally incapable of in person: using 'I' statements and feeling words, avoiding absolutist statements, telling the other person we hear what they’re saying... There are a few reasons text-fighting works for us. For one, when you have to type a sentence, you’re less likely to say something tremendously hurtful than if you just blurted it out. Texting also lets me articulate complex, emotionally loaded thoughts, something I’ve only ever been able to do through writing. So instead of yelling, 'It’s incredibly fucking rude for you to show up late and not text,' I spell out, 'It made me feel disrespected when you didn’t apologize for coming to dinner late.' It allows for precision of word choice, for restraint, for nuanced language.... And beneath all of it is the analgesic knowledge that we know how to do this; that, unlike with our volatile in-person altercations, we can land this plane."
From "Texting Is the Only Way My Husband and I Can Argue Without Destroying Each Other" by Kate Willsky (NY Magazine).
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It allows for precision of word choice, for restraint, for nuanced language....
Precision of language.
My own experience and that of our family is that e mail and text are the worst way to communicate on disputes and arguments. It is too easy to write things harmful and hard to convey a softer tone by text. I advocate a telephone call or face to face for personal disputes because you are more likely to convey a softer tone and can moderate your words with facial expressions, pauses, and so forth.
The bane of today's text communication on twitter proves this to me.
So instead of yelling, 'It’s incredibly fucking rude for you to show up late and not text,' I spell out, 'It made me feel disrespected when you didn’t apologize for coming to dinner late.'
If this is what they're arguing about, I suggest a lot more flexibility, and less trying to control others. People don't arrive late at someone. Circumstances overtake them. Why assume that they're trying to disrespect you! Sheesh.
"Texting Is the Only Way My Husband and I Can Argue Without Destroying Each Other"
And this is supposed to be a good way to be?!
My wife and I are highly skilled attorneys so we just send response and reply briefs back and forth to each other.
My years of therapy equipped me to analyze my feelings with unhurried curiosity, to probe my mind and return back to the world with a clear description of how I feel and what I want. They did not equip me to argue, to think on my feet, to turn anger into persuasive language.
"So, can we please talk to each other like the therapist told us to talk to each other?"
"Writing crap like this is the only way upper-middle class and wealthy white women can transmit their vapid feelings (that day) and signal their lifestyle filled with excessive amounts of free time while making money in their pajamas in front of a laptop to women not of their social class so they can psychologically destroy them." by Kate Willsky (NY Magazine).
People always said the world would be a better place if there were no lawyers. Way off. It's these people. The world would be better off without people like Kate.
Good, now that you’ve found a way of communicating, you can save time, money and quit therapy.
Youtube is feeding me Fox clips for some reason. I notice that the women are all arguing feelings, even on the right. They simply can't argue systems.
This lady texts her feelings apparently. That traps her husband but avoids his making a hasty reply and instead weigh the value of pussy. Keep the system working.
"it’s not a fact I readily volunteer to my girlfriends"
Instead, I'll volunteer it in a magazine.
Gentlemen! Remember the hot-crazy matrix (therapy at 11 = indicator)! Add the writer dimension: do not cross that line.
Maybe the writer is a twit.........
I don't know why our Hostess keeps hitting us with excerpts from ANY magazine that says "New York" in the title. It seems to be a......twit flag.
Gentlemen, more free advice:
Rule #1: do not marry a person obsessed with analyzing her own feelings with unhurried curiosity; instead, marry a person focused on how to make others feel better.
Rule #2: if you violated Rule # 1 and get into "altercations," do not put loaded statements in texts and avoid creating a record; instead, argue in person and let things blow over.
I'm glad they found something that works for them.
I find that arguing while NOT under the influence of alcohol leads to mutual understanding orders of magnitude better than having a lush insult fest.
But at a certain point of inebriation, my spouse becomes easier to manipulate, so the temptation to argue after drinking is always there. Titrating the beverage intake to achieve that tiny window of drunk but compliant is really an art form, not a scientific process, and takes lots of luck to achieve success. Still, worth it when it works.
Years of Therapy!! One of the things that future generations will laugh at is people going to therapy. Does anyone ever actually leave therapy? Why would they? It's an opportunity for someone to talk about their favorite subject, themselves, in a setting where the listener has to be sympathetic. My sister-in-law has been in therapy for 40 years and is now worse off and poorer than when she started. The therapists get paid though. I want to scream at her- of course you are depressed. You've had 3 marriages, no job for 20 years and your kids hate you. Your depression is a sign of sanity. Get a f-ing job and 90% of your problems will disappear. But that would not be .....supportive.
Arguing while driving is a terrible idea anyway.
Being overly sensitive about absurdly small things is something women seem addicted to. Yelling at the husband because the toilet seat is up, he forgot TP at the store, and the kids he got dressed have clashing colors is not only overwrought, it causes resentment. There is never enough time to do everything perfectly, esp if you have kids. If you can get the big things done adequately, you should feel a sense of accomplishment. If no matter how hard your spouse tries you yell at them, the problem is you not him.
Well if I were a young man and met a woman who had been "years in therapy" I might shy away.
OTOH I had an uncle who married a woman who was manic depressive (and actually dangerous to the daughter they had). He divorced her three times--and married her four times. But it was a different time and place; first marriage was in 1920--and both husband and wife were devout Southern Baptists living in Texas. As for "dangerous" the daughter was told-and taught--to stay out of the house until and unless the father was home.
'It made me feel disrespected when you didn’t apologize for coming to dinner late.'
I would stay away too if this is what discussions are like.
Jesus, I couldn't stay married to this woman:
"Take the time my husband arrived home with our daughter ten minutes after he said he would, leaving our dinner to grow cold on the table and my rage to reach a rapid simmer."
But the husband likes taunting Trump supporters on Twitter, so he's a piece of work, too.
As I've said about toxic couples, at least they married each other; they make two people unhappy instead of four.
https://youtu.be/LQwP5dIBgiM
The Petersons.
Is there anything he can’t do? :0)
If they can’t verbalize- what chance do their children have?
I hate agreeing with articles like this, but I have found that texting works when my husband and I have arguments too.
My husband is the one who is sensitive about absurdly small things. He has a tendency to be a bit narcissistic. He is overly self-absorbed and extremely sensitive to criticism. He has a hard time saying "I'm sorry," even when he's clearly at fault, and even when its not me he needs to apologize to, it's our kid. Don't get me wrong--he's a lot of fun and I love him dearly. But there is a bit of a game to figuring out how I can express my frustrations without triggering him.
Here's an example. My husband works retail hours, so I usually make dinner. If I make dinner, he is supposed to do dishes. He knows I hate it when the dishes aren't done within 24 hours, but there have been times when he doesn't do them before I have to make dinner the next day.
I might say something like, "Hey, you didn't do the dishes after yesterday's dinner and you know I hate that."
--If I say it in person, he will get super defensive, stomp off and basically act like I want to get a divorce.
--If I say it over text, he might send me a laugh or shrug emoji.
I almost never text my wife, and almost never communicate with others except by text. I live with her after all. She, on the other hand, spends most of her waking hours texting and emailing and messaging her far-flung fellow fanatics.
Do people leave therapy? Yes, of course they do. Do people become addicted to therapy? Yes, of course they do.
Speaking of attorney communications, a friend of mine is a very successful one here; he told his old buddies about how he handled his own second divorce--he wrote up a fair settlement and presented it to her with the suggestion that she shop it around to other divorce lawyers before accepting, but was confident she would be advised to accept.
Now that's professionalism.
Wince- I’ve never seen that. It sounds interesting. Paul Rudd- I kinda like him. Versatile.
This is so outside of my metaverse. The Mrs and I rarely fight. I can't remember the last time. We both stand down, flex for each other. We do joke about who has flexed more over the years.
Is fighting the norm? I think we need a survey ... @alt.house, can you help? Ha.
So glad I married a woman from Ohio.
This is all just a long way of saying that neither one of them can control their emotions. How do you get to adulthood without that ability? That child is in for a rough upbringing.
I can't imagine being married to someone whom I was that angry at that often.
Yes, but what if she really does have a nail in her forehead?
I don’t believe my husband and I have ever argued via text or email. I have texted that I was irritated with him but that hasn’t devolved into an argument. (Prior to a trip out of the country he very half-assedly shoved paint containers into the garage cupboard which, after I opened the cupboard, subsequently rained down upon my head and splattered paint all over the garage - holy snot was I bruised and irritated.)
It could possibly alleviate the tone portion of our arguments. I have a habit of inferring emotion to his tone he doesn’t claim. He has a habit of perceiving my tone as being raised when I don’t feel like I’m yelling.
There seem to be two things going on here in the comments.
1. If it works, it works, so do it. If they get along better by texting, than why not text rather than talk? (Hat-tip to Roger Sweeny.)
2. Lotta red flags as many are pointing out, so maybe this isn't going to work out well.
But the two points are separable. While the marriage may not be a great one, they should still text because it gives the best shot at making it better.
And another red flag nobody has caught yet: seven years together before marriage. Not a ringing affirmation.
“ "Take the time my husband arrived home with our daughter ten minutes after he said he would, leaving our dinner to grow cold on the table and my rage to reach a rapid simmer."
Who puts hot food on the table when people aren’t in the house yet?
I suspect this story is largely fiction.
But I do think there are some times when writing can help get through a personal dispu.
Whenever I read "My years of therapy..." I hear klaxons.
I once read a book called "How to Live With a Screwed Up Person" (spouse, boss, whatever) and one piece of advice it gave was that if you are dealing with a "screwed up person," calmly expressing yourself to that person in writing sounds very appealing, but it never works. That's actually the only piece of advice I can remember from the book.
From the article: "...And beneath all of it is the analgesic knowledge that we know how to do this; that, unlike with our volatile in-person altercations, we can land this plane."
Clarity by way of depersonalization? Not buying it. How long until the flame wars migrate to the text messages?
"Who puts hot food on the table when people aren’t in the house yet?"
Someone who's looking for a fight.
She’s a writer, so perhaps for her next piece she can consider why college-educated American white women are simultaneously the freest, richest women in human history while also the unhappiest.
I see several problems with the constant texting, but this one stands out. All these texts are archived and statements can be resurrected for use in subsequent arguments. These is an easily accessed record of all the past “hurtful” statements. “ But, but you said. ###&& last Friday, what about that?” I also don’t see how frequent texting encourages forgiveness, charity (caritas) or mutual forbearance . My wife has a graduate degree in psychological counseling, and she was a counselor for several years, mostly with adolescents, Consequently, she uses all the methods and magical phrasing she knows to settle disputes in the extended family. We also know several family therapists, however, who recommend that clients write real letters (on paper) to people who have offended, “oppressed” or negatively inluenced them. These letters usually go to parents or spouses, and they claim that this strategy is very helpful. Luckily she can also effectively satirize and make fun of therapy culture when necessary.
I love arguing via text. My husband and I rarely argue about anything anymore, most everything having been worked out in years past, but when we do, there's nothing like a good text exchange. In my case, texting certainly doesn't result in milder words, but there's a real artistry to the words if my mood is at an eleven. (Nothing cruel. Not ever. You can't do that if you want to be happy in marriage.) I can be magnificently angry via text.
My father advocated that his counseling clients write letters explaining what was making them unhappy.
Yelling at the husband because the toilet seat is up, he forgot TP at the store, and the kids he got dressed have clashing colors is not only overwrought, it causes resentment. There is never enough time to do everything perfectly, esp if you have kids. If you can get the big things done adequately, you should feel a sense of accomplishment. If no matter how hard your spouse tries you yell at them, the problem is you not him.
So true, especially about kids. Triage is the word I like to use. Make sure the important things get done (everyone gets fed), everything else is just gravy. If you miss something like an activity sign up deadline...c'est la vie. My wife disagrees and gets frustrated at every little slip. This leads to some tension between us occasionally.
Let’s make big tech privy to our family arguments. That will help!
Sounds like a few more years of therapy might be in order here...
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