Said Donald Trump on the Clay Travis & Buck Sexton Show — audio and transcript, here.
Full quote: "After 21 years, I wanted out of Afghanistan. We were gonna be out. I got it down to 2,000 we were getting ready to pull them out, but we were pulling them out with very great strength. We were gonna keep Bagram, not because of Afghanistan. We spent billions building this base, has the biggest and longest runways in the world, and it’s one hour away from where China makes its nuclear weapons. So I was keeping that and keeping it in full force. But I was getting out of Afghanistan, and we would have gotten out with tremendous strength and dignity and power and respect. Instead, we look like we surrendered.... We were gonna pull out with great strength, we were gonna keep Bagram, and we were pulling out of other locations, too, where there’s no reason for us to be there. They hate us. We don’t particularly like them...."
He wasn't President at the time, so he doesn't have to compare his abstraction to what happened in the real world, and that's the great consolation of losing an election. You keep your dreams. You have the humiliation of being the loser, but in that world that might have been, you can be anything you want. You can surrender the most profound and beautiful surrender in the history of the universe — so strong, so dignified!
Who's to say it wouldn't have been so? Who can know what would have happened at the Bagram Airbase we did not keep?
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64 comments:
We can't know how Trump's pullout would have worked (or even if he would have pulled out--he wasn't in any great hurry while president), but we can be pretty sure it wouldn't have gone worse.
A 'virtual pullout' that kept Bagram active was on the table, if I remember correctly. We had already turned most of the fighting over to the Afghans (there were no US combat deaths in the 'stan in 2019) and if we had kept up logistical support for the Afghan air force, there's probably no reason we couldn't have concluded at least a tacit agreement that kept us in our Embassy compound and Bagram for surveillance operations in the immediate vicinity (Pakistan and China, primarily).
But much like the situation in Vietnam in 1975 and Iraq in 2011, Biden and the Democrats wanted the 'optics' of getting out of a war they had previously supported and expanded.
The typical Trump salesman puffery. If he wants to run in 2024 he needs to keep beating that drum and playing the same old tune: "You should have voted for me: Biden is a disaster"
Well we do know the surrender of Biden was the worst ( maybe worse actually ) than Vietnam. Ran out by goat herders, left thousands and just for spite blew up a family on the way out.
Selling our Afghan colony to the Chinese was an expected Biden Crime Family deal. He wanted his cash for his favors like any good political whore. But he sweetened the deal unnecessarily and tried with media help to pretend leaving behind a half trillion dollars of equipment and improvements was “ unexpected”, and anyway, Trump did it.
Trump is right. Not keeping Bagram is a colossal mistake. So was the bum's rush to get out of Afghanistan. I suspect the Chinese are waiting a bit while the Afghans starve before they make a deal for Bagram.
Who's to say it wouldn't have been so? Who can know what would have happened at the Bagram Airbase we did not keep?
We would have flown out the thousands of US citizens that Biden abandoned from Bagram.
But Ann doesn't care about those people.
They aren't cool like the people who read the WaPo and NYT's.
Soooo, the intense continuing interest by the press in the words and deeds of former President Trump.... He's running again, isn't he?
Who's to say it wouldn't have been so? Who can know what would have happened at the Bagram Airbase we did not keep?
I wasn’t aware that he planned to retain Bagram, perhaps the way the US retains Guantanamo Bay. But it wouldn’t have taken much to improve on the results of Biden, Blinken, Austin, and Milley. Identifying and evacuating US citizens, identifying and evacuating native Afghans who had green cards, control the loading of airplanes, bring airplanes safely in and out, all these were do-able things.l if we did them through Bagram. Why was it hard to see that you couldn’t accomplish that from Kabul?
Trump made his living as a negotiator. He understands positioning, posturing and how to play on your strengths.
Trump also understands the value of win-win agreements and the destructive force of zero-sum negotiations.
The exit strategy he described is very much in line with who he is and how he operates. The US paid a dear price for the Bagram airfield. The US also owed a lot of blood and lives to the work of our allies in Afghanistan. He knew the value of both and would have defended them.
I think the withdrawal, had it happened under Trump, would have gone more smoothly, but the ultimate result would have been the same- Taliban were retaking the country regardless of who the president was last year.
It is possible that Bagram would have been retained in the manner as Guantanamo is today, but it would have been a constant target for the Taliban, and so probably not worth keeping.
You have the humiliation of being the loser,
Winning only one Presidential election is a lot more accomplishment than the overwhelming majority of "winners" achieve.
Who's to say it wouldn't have been so? Who can know what would have happened at the Bagram Airbase we did not keep?
The race is not always to the swift. But that's the way to bet.
Were there any way to actually know, I would bet that Putin decided on Ukraine when that debacle unfolded.
Who's to say it wouldn't have been so? Who can know what would have happened at the Bagram Airbase we did not keep?
Afghanistan is a landlocked country. So I don't know that keeping Bagram Airbase supplied while giving back the rest of Afghanistan would be any more challenging that keeping Bagram Airbase supplied when we're fighting in Afghanistan
I do know that, even is we had to pull out of Bagram Airbase, we could have done it in a more competent manner than the idiocy that the Biden* Admin did.
To start with, we could have destroyed all the equipment before we left, instead of leaving it for the terrorists.
What is absolutely clear is that the "adults in the room" Biden* Admin pulled a complete Charlie Foxtrot of an exit, and it would ahve been incredibly difficult to screw it up more than they did
Almost anything would have been much better than the debacle of Brandon’s retreat. Some day we’ll have better info on the lives lost because Brandon cut and ran on thousands who supported the US in Afghanistan. The death tolls should also include Americans killed by the unvetted Afghan criminals that Brandon airlifted and dropped into unsuspecting Americans communities. Shameful events for which Biden should be impeached. All so he could give a sped om 9/11/2021 claiming what a great hero he was to end the war. Pride comes before the fall.
Why was it hard to see that you couldn’t accomplish that from Kabul?
It wasn't, which was why the military wanted to keep Bagram. It was apparently the State Department and the Admin who refused.
"He wasn't President at the time, so he doesn't have to compare his abstraction to what happened in the real world, and that's the great consolation of losing an election."
If a thug grabs your purse and runs with it, would you say that watching him use your money to buy a gun and kill eight or ten of your friends was "the great consolation of losing a purse"?
Well, in this case, you also have the certainty that you could not POSSIBLY have done worse. It could not have been a bigger disaster in any way than it was under Biden and that idiot he put in charge of the withdrawal.
Keeping Bagram while losing the rest of A'stan? Riiight.
Pulling out with "strength," giving up with "dignity"? Riiight. And why didn't you do it, buddy?
Of course, ridiculing Joe for his obvious debacles also highlights the uberdebacle of losing to him. Who loses to such a loser?
Reading the pullout as a the f*ck-up of all f*ck-ups, as all commentators here do, is correct, of course, but what difference, at this point, does it make? Americans never cared about A'stan. Barry declared it a strategic interest only for domestic strategic purposes. The abandonment was always coming, though executed badly. Trump had four years and didn't do it (I guess he was waiting for Mexico to pay for the beautiful wall). But most importantly, Dems calculate that the price for Kabul-style disasters is small. They stabbed South Vietnam in the back, and got Carter; they undermined the Iraq War after supporting it, and got O. Will any Joe voter, or sensitive Althouse-style abstainer, now change sides due to the disaster? How many will say: yes, we messed up, but I'm glad we're out?
The arc between the reality of now for those who have eyes to see- and what the media will finally report as truth… is approximately 6-10 yrs.
Trump will never be able to make haters see. Wasting his breath.
Feel the love…
Taste the rainbow.
“But Ann doesn't care about those people.
They aren't cool like the people who read the WaPo and NYTs…”
I’m beginning to think otherwise…
"You should have voted for me: Biden is a disaster"
Have you any evidence that Biden isn't a disaster?? No.
Does anyone remember voting for Biden??
"We can't know how Trump's pullout would have worked (or even if he would have pulled out--he wasn't in any great hurry while president), but we can be pretty sure it wouldn't have gone worse."
And we can be equally sure it wouldn't have gone any better.
Yancey Ward said...
It is possible that Bagram would have been retained in the manner as Guantanamo is today, but it would have been a constant target for the Taliban, and so probably not worth keeping.
Targeting Bagram would be very hard.
Not like most of the other fobs. It had large buffers around it.
Who is to say that Trump wouldn't have royally and completely screwed up: the border, energy, trade, relations with Ukraine, relations with Russia, infation, the ongoing response to covid, CRT in schools, etc.?
Except that he didn't royally and completely screw those things up, and Biden did.
Ipso facto.
I have always believed that pulling out of land locked Afghan would be a problem. What happened was chaos because Biden wanted to be out by 9/11 no matter the cost. It was all politics. We could have held Bagram and used it instead of Kabul for vetting and evacuating citizens and allies.
Trump also understands the value of win-win agreements and the destructive force of zero-sum negotiations.
Hearing Justin Trudeau claim the truckers were "misogynistic, bigoted, transphobic, Islam-aphobic and homophobic" was a great example of how to do it wrong. No one likes to be insulted - especially if you assign "all" the insults to "all" the individual members of the group.
Winning a football game 7 - 6 is still winning. When you run up the score just to prove you can, all you are going to do is tick people off.
Trump made his living as a negotiator. He understands positioning, posturing and how to play on your strengths.
Foxconn. Trump is a shitty negotiator but his fanbois will believe anything. Sad!
now suppose there had been some breakaway provinces declaring independence from Kabul? Trump would have peace-keeping forces ? in place
could be reason he admires Putin
Simple question: Why didn't Trump withdraw from Afghanistan?
The plan called for Bagram to be evacuated last. Gen. Miley vetoed it, saying we didn't need it, and evacuated the personnel first (Leaving all the equipment behind).
He said so on camera.
There are still Americans trapped in Afghanistan.
There were bomb attacks outside of Bagram, right?
If we withdraw except for the base and acknowledge how many times drones have killed the wrong people, I am not sure how holding a base that people cannot safely access is a positive.
Just so stories used to be for children. Apparently now they are for ex Presidents too.
Why didn't Trump withdraw from Afghanistan?
Oh I dunno.
-Maybe because the entire Defense establishment was against it?
-Maybe because had to spend all his time fighting Mueller, Trump Russia, etc.
-Maybe because he had to spend time fighting an impeachment over a phone call.
-Maybe because almost EVERY fucking Democrat Senator and Congressman hated his guts and wanted to destroy him.
-Maybe because Ryan,Mitch, Mittens, etc. were stabbing him in the back and giving him no support.
-Maybe because he was spending 2020 trying to get re-elected and fighting CV 19.
Or maybe its because if one thing had gone wrong, the MSM all the Liberal/Left would've screamed bloody murder and crucified him. AND George Bush and Cheney would've come out of retirement to attack him.
Which of course they DID NOT do with biden.
D.D. Driver said...
Trump made his living as a negotiator. He understands positioning, posturing and how to play on your strengths.
Foxconn. Trump is a shitty negotiator but his fanbois will believe anything. Sad!
Yeah, I would guess that's why he was able to renegotiate NAFTA (which all the best people told us he couldn't do), cut deals with China that were better for the US, and keep Nord Stream II bottled up, it's all because he was such a shitty negotiator.
You're right, DD, there are some people who will believe anything.
But you're clearly wrong as to who those people are
Browndog said...
Simple question: Why didn't Trump withdraw from Afghanistan?
==========
don't Pentagon need to have plans prepared to show how?
could such thing have been done with success in view and credit to Trump?
rcocean said...
The typical Trump salesman puffery. If he wants to run in 2024 he needs to keep beating that drum and playing the same old tune: "You should have voted for me: Biden is a disaster"
News flash: everyone should have voted for Trump, and Biden is a disaster
Robert Cook said...
"We can't know how Trump's pullout would have worked (or even if he would have pulled out--he wasn't in any great hurry while president), but we can be pretty sure it wouldn't have gone worse."
And we can be equally sure it wouldn't have gone any better.
no, Cookie, people who live in your fantasy land can be "sure" that Trump wouldn't have done it any better.
But it's an amazing comment on how badly the Biden* team screwed things up that even you don't try to claim Trump would ahve done it worse.
Sebastian said...
Of course, ridiculing Joe for his obvious debacles also highlights the uberdebacle of losing to him. Who loses to such a loser?
Are you really so stupid, Sebastian, that you can't tell the difference between "ability to win an election" (pretending here that Biden* won it honestly) and "ability to get things done"?
That's really mentally defective on your part
The typical Trump salesman puffery. If he wants to run in 2024 he needs to keep beating that drum and playing the same old tune: "You should have voted for me: Biden is a disaster"
@rcocean, in what ways has Biden not been a disaster? Are you getting a cut of Biden’s graft? Is that the source of your support?
Trump’s unique approaches to Kim Jung Un, the border crisis (wall, remain in Mexico), taking out Soleimani to kneecap Iranian aggression, and breaking the one state Palestinian gridlock demonstrate his solid problem solving abilities. Given what we know about Trump and Biden now, my money would be on Trump attaining the better outcomes across the board.
What BS - The agreement Trump signed with the Taliban required that we give up Bagram air field.
rcocean said...
Why didn't Trump withdraw from Afghanistan?
Oh I dunno.
-Maybe because
-Maybe because
-Maybe because
-Maybe because...
All I'm able to ascertain through the snark is the reason Trump did not withdraw from Afghanistan is because he was weak.
BREAKING: Only 26% say the U.S. should have a major role in the conflict between Ukraine and Russia - AP
Democrats favor the US having a major role over Republicans 32-22%
Looks like the "interagency consensus" outsmarted itself. It's hard to have a war without the right onboard, but they are already overdrawn on the 'traitor' card. Nobody gives a shit being a called a traitor by people who don't give a shit about the meaning of words. They are going to have to come up with a genuine case for our involvement, and explain Syria to us too, while you are at it.
Whether Trump could have pulled it off or not, at least it was worth trying. At least it wouldn't have left Americans deeply distrustful that American leadership cares at all about the boys we entrusted to them as soldiers.
Why should anybody trust Biden on Ukraine after this debacle? That's not a rhetorical question. Mistakes happen, but Biden just said "Fuck it, let the chips fall and let God sort it out, they are not my kids."
Yeah, I would guess that's why he was able to renegotiate NAFTA (which all the best people told us he couldn't do), cut deals with China that were better for the US, and keep Nord Stream II bottled up, it's all because he was such a shitty negotiator.
Oh, Trump can get "deals" done. That's not the point. The point is Trump's "deals" are all bullshit and only his fanbois are capable of suspending disbelief. Do you think China is going to keep its word? Sure. China will observe its promises. And, the "Abraham Accords" will usher in a new era of peace in the Middle East. LOL. You don't actually believe this bullshit do you?
Stay gold, Ponyboy.
He's campaigning hard
Obama part duh, but at leas not another world war from Tripoli to Kiev and several other places he didn't visit. That said, the trump card was an orderly withdrawal pursuant to facts on the ground. That said, what difference, at this point, does it make?
Whichever side is out of office is free to argue that with them it would have been different. I remember Biden arguing that Covid would have gone better with him. Then he got into office and we got to see.
Sebastian said...
But most importantly, Dems calculate that the price for Kabul-style disasters is small. They stabbed South Vietnam in the back, and got Carter; they undermined the Iraq War after supporting it, and got O.
Well, arguably Carter lost in part because of the Desert One debacle, and Hillary certainly wasn't helped by the rise of ISIS et al along with Syria going to hell and Obama's response of launching Twitter hash tags and declaring 'red lines'.
But all you're really saying is that Presidential politics, like all politics, is local. If the Democrats lose in 2022 and 2024, it likely won't be directly because of the Kabul Kock-Up but it certainly plays into the image of the Democrats as feckless and Biden as ineffectual.
Ann Althouse said...
Whichever side is out of office is free to argue that with them it would have been different.
I remember Biden arguing that Covid would have gone better with him.
This is the same poor argument that was made back in 2004 when the Democrat line was that W "didn't have a plan" for handling Iraq.
By 2020 Trump had made real decisions that could be evaluated, and that can be used to validate estimations of what would have transpired had he remained in office. Biden had vaporware until he presided over a real debacle.
Biden helped cut off funds to the South Vietnamese, as a Senator, now retreats out of Afghanistan are tricky, the soviets managed one, the Brits not so well in 1841, and that's being charitable,
Biden helped cut off funds to the South Vietnamese, as a Senator, now retreats out of Afghanistan are tricky, the soviets managed one, the Brits not so well in 1841, and that's being charitable,
Famous Wharton style saying... "Show me a good loser and I'll show you a constant loser". I really can't see Trump's pulling out of Afghanistan being anything shy of Operation Warp Speed. He knows logistics, and has a lot of resources there. His ego doesn't tolerate failure. Joe knows ONLY failure. Ask Barack.
Good catch Ann. trump didn't call Biden weak. Trump just kept repeating Great Strength and by nature the listener is gently prompted to compare Stength/Weakness.
Someday someone will write a PhD dissertation on Trump's linguistic mastery.
By gawd I'll bet Trump wouldn't/couldn't have airlifted over 120,000 of the nearest, largely un-vetted, warm bodies in such a short time.
“Simple question: Why didn't Trump withdraw from Afghanistan?”
I thought there was a timetable…
And I thought that was the excuse Biden used to do a shitty rush job getting out of there- Trump’s timetable.
You know, so he could blame Trump for his shitty departure.
This whole administration has been a f/king shitshow.
But, u know- the Libs totes lap it up- like 2scoops-in-a-cone yum.
Let’s go, Brandon!
Blogger D.D. Driver said...
Yeah, I would guess that's why he was able to renegotiate NAFTA (which all the best people told us he couldn't do), cut deals with China that were better for the US, and keep Nord Stream II bottled up, it's all because he was such a shitty negotiator.
Oh, Trump can get "deals" done. That's not the point. The point is Trump's "deals" are all bullshit and only his fanbois are capable of suspending disbelief. Do you think China is going to keep its word? Sure. China will observe its promises. And, the "Abraham Accords" will usher in a new era of peace in the Middle East. LOL. You don't actually believe this bullshit do you?
Stay gold, Ponyboy."
He calls you on your bullshit and you respond with bullshit.
True, you never know for sure which approach would have been better. But you can make educated guesses, and only a fool would think it likely that Trump would not handle it better.
“ The plan called for Bagram to be evacuated last. Gen. Miley vetoed it, saying we didn't need it, and evacuated the personnel first (Leaving all the equipment behind).
“He said so on camera.”
“There are still Americans trapped in Afghanistan.”
Bagram was logically last because it was defendable, from anyone up almost to near peer powers. We had complete control over Bagram, and could sit there indefinitely. Probably shouldn’t. But strategically, it was a great asset, with the longest runways in the country, letting us project military power over the region. All the stuff that made the withdrawal and retreat through Kabul such a catastrophe would not have happened if we had left Bagram last, and not first. Miley should have been shot by firing squad, or maybe hung, or even drawn and quartered, for this idiocy.
Bruce Hayden said...
“ The plan called for Bagram to be evacuated last. Gen. Miley vetoed it, saying we didn't need it, and evacuated the personnel first (Leaving all the equipment behind).
========
Trump would have chewed out Generals for such advice YOU ARE FIRED
”But it's an amazing comment on how badly the Biden* team screwed things up that even you don't try to claim Trump would ahve done it worse.”
I thought that went without saying.
D.D. Driver said...
Me: Yeah, I would guess that's why he was able to renegotiate NAFTA (which all the best people told us he couldn't do), cut deals with China that were better for the US, and keep Nord Stream II bottled up, it's all because he was such a shitty negotiator.
Oh, Trump can get "deals" done. That's not the point. The point is Trump's "deals" are all bullshit and only his fanbois are capable of suspending disbelief. Do you think China is going to keep its word? Sure. China will observe its promises. And, the "Abraham Accords" will usher in a new era of peace in the Middle East. LOL. You don't actually believe this bullshit do you?
DD: Trump can't negotiate!
Me: He negotiated this
DD: That's just "deals", not "negotiation"
WTF?
Trump's renegotiation of NAFTA cut the amount of Chinese goods coming to the US as "Mexican" or "Canadian". Mission accomplished
While Trump was President, he kept his deals with China enforced.
Is the CCP going to keep their word any time they think they can get away with not doing so? Of course not!
So, tell us, exactly WHAT did President Trump screw up with his deals with China?
Did Trump knock som sand in your face? What is with this whiny bullshit?
D.D. Driver said...
Yeah, I would guess that's why he was able to renegotiate NAFTA (which all the best people told us he couldn't do), cut deals with China that were better for the US, and keep Nord Stream II bottled up, it's all because he was such a shitty negotiator.
Oh, Trump can get "deals" done. That's not the point. The point is Trump's "deals" are all bullshit and only his fanbois are capable of suspending disbelief. Do you think China is going to keep its word? Sure. China will observe its promises. And, the "Abraham Accords" will usher in a new era of peace in the Middle East. LOL. You don't actually believe this bullshit do you?
Stay gold, Ponyboy.
The interesting thing here is that he thinks this is some sort of intelligent comeback.
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