".... who refuse to capitulate to Donald Trump. Unfortunately, Fox viewers rarely get to hear from them. They are booked by the network's producers so rarely that their contracts could be likened to golden handcuffs. Now they are ditching the cuffs."
I'm trying to read "Jonah Goldberg and Stephen Hayes resign from Fox News, protesting 'irresponsible' voices like Tucker Carlson" by Brian Stelter (CNN Business).
If you're not on any shows, you can make a show out of the spectacle of leaving. And Brian Stelter tries to boost the visibility of this Jonah-and-Stephen-never-capitulate show.
As for "reality-based" — it made me think of Alvy Singer reacting to Duane Hall:
"Well, I have to go now... because I'm due back on the Planet Earth."
As for "golden handcuffs" — this expression implies that they were paid a lot of money to go on Fox News exclusively, essentially paid to remain silent. But was that the deal? And how much money were they paid? Stelter doesn't say.
It's noble, I suppose, to walk away from money — depending on how much money it was and how ignoble it was to take it in the first place. But we're not told!
Here's the Goldberg + Hayes statement. It doesn't say how much money they got from Fox. Maybe they only walked away from the erstwhile honor of being affiliated with Fox. Now, they judge that association to be detrimental to their stature, and they break it off. If that's the case, there never were any "golden handcuffs," and there's nothing grand about the gesture of walking away.
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And speaking of jokes, I give you - Brian Steltzer!
People who pay $100 a year to read their stuff and comment on it are giving them enthusiastic support.
If you pay the full $1500 to become a Founding Member you can be yet more effulgent and perhaps kiss -- or at least contemplate -- their naked backsides.
I understand that David French has applied for Jonah's position at Fox News so that he can resign in protest too.
Quislings. And not very smart or insightful Quislings.
By "reality based" they mean narrative based. Goldberg and Hayes were the last to get the memo that the floating crap game of warmongers has moved to MSNBC and CNN.
Was Stelter calling Goldberg reality-based when he was shilling a book called "Liberal Fascists" and promoting endless war against Muslims?
Jonah's career arc is now complete.
The Times thought it was important to mention their preference for "Athleisure" wear.
But they do not ask the pressing question: What's the deal with NeverTrumpers and goatees?
I'm curious if these oh so noble never-Trumpers will be as resolute when it comes to appearing on MSNBC, CNN, CBS, ABC, NBC, etc. Each of whom pushed the Trump/Russian collusion hoax for FOUR years, and have yet to own up to their constant advancing of this LIE.
CNN? wasn't that a network, back in the days of cable??
What ever happened to it?
Trump's superpower was revealing the Hayes' and the Goldbergs of the world for the grifters that they are. Tater is welcome to have them on his show anytime where they can support Democrats all the time.
Their contracts are up and the Fox audience is tired of their rabid antitrumpism trumping their common sense conservatism grift. Somehow the guy who wrote the book on liberal fascism was seduced by the intoxicating act of becoming a fascist. That’s why they run to the transcribers of rites for prog-fascism at the NYT to peddle their new antifox stance. How to acknowledge your irrelevant without having to say “it’s a pity I’m now irrelevant.”
The new owner of CNN may not be happy with what the former news channel is doing.
Goldberg and Hayes may be looking for a new gig. They are nonpersons to most conservatives.
I've thought since the 2016 campaign that the never-Trump Republicans are just too attached to being invited to (at least some of) the right parties in Washington. Trump is too right-wing, or too boorish, or not Ivy League enough or something. He not only demonstrates a kind of contempt for credentials, but by his successes he seems to confirm that credentials don't count for all that much. The Swamp vs. Trump.
But now it is clearer than ever that there is an alliance between the woke and the Swamp. Are these erstwhile Republicans going to agree with whatever the woke want as long as it is free from the odor of Trumpism? If the Jan. 6 insurgents are going to be dismissed as fascists caught up in a paranoid fantasy, what about all the people who have favoured suppression of dissent in the name of Trump-Russia, the party line on Covid, street protests and other things?
I know Althouse is friends with Jonah (A whale of a man) but I consider him the worst kind of grifter. For years he pretended to be a Conservative Republican and constantly supported "pragmatic" Republicans because we had to be loyal to the party, couldn't have "purity tests", and beating those Damn Democrats was very important. I can remember his "it'd be good to have Joe Leiberman as McCain's VP" back in August 2008.
Then came Trump. And suddenly "Purity tests" were in, beating the Democrats was out. And he's become more and more openly supportive of the Liberals and the Democrats and hostile to anyone Right-wing.
Goldberg got kicked off National Reivew along with French, because they were taking handouts from Google, writing columns in their support, and then lying about it. Go read Emerald Robinson. Bascially Goldberg is a smarter, fatter, version of Jen Rubin.
He's getting paid by Fox, like Hayes, but never appears. Like David French or Hayes, Goldberg has no audience, unless its on MSNBC or CNN, so its no surprise that Mr. Potato Head is singing his praises.
Why We Are Leaving Fox News
A brief explanation.
Steve Hayes and Jonah Goldberg
COVID-19 is deadly, vaccines work, Joe Biden won Arizona, the election was not stolen, January 6 was not a Deep State-orchestrated “false flag” operation but was an assault on the Capitol as part of a broader attempt to steal an election: The people who put the “news” in Fox News have reported all of these things.
This is not the place to expound at any length on the many problems and challenges facing the country.
Each of those assertions seems rather cherry-picked and qualified. Carlson should invite them on.
They are both RINOs...Goldberg used to be centrist/fairly sane/country club conservative.
But once 'National Review' got on the Never Trump train he became an insufferable, condescending know-it-all.
From what I've read (consider the source) Hayes was a college buddy of Baier. Not sure how he'd get on the air otherwise.
"The new owner of CNN may not be happy with what the former news channel is doing."
Jeff Zucker is still head of WarnerMedia news and CNN. There's no evidence anyone at ATT/Warner is upset with him.
Goldberg is the superior intellect of the two but it is expressed mainly in his quips and pop culture references. He’s pretty witty, I will admit. Hayes is a garden variety neocon. Never says anything remotely interesting. Their problem, of course, was that Trump outed them as conservative grifters. Goldberg’s “Liberal Fascism” is now fully exposed as grift as he has joined the fascists. Tucker Carlson is their intellectual better in every way. He’s the Jonathon Swift of our times.
The truly disappointing thing is that he man who wrote Liberal Fascism has become a good German.
Stories have no information about either of their contracts with Fox News.
Nothing even about how much they made a year for being “contributors.”
Headline could be “Fox News declines to renew contributor contracts of Hayes and Goldberg.”
The explanations why each stayed on at Fox News through the Trump presidency and almost a year after other than for money sounds like bullshit.
Fox News dispatched these two bearded has-beens.
"As for "golden handcuffs" — this expression implies that they were paid a lot of money to go on Fox News exclusively, essentially paid to remain silent. But was that the deal? And how much money were they paid? Stelter doesn't say."
Hayes was Brett Baier's college roommate in college.
Thats the ONLY reason Hayes and partner Goldberg were there.
Hayes and Goldberg are paid by Facebook to help deplatform conservative groups, particulary pro-life groups. They also gleefully attacked the Covington Catholic kids.
The new owner of CNN will cut it loose and sell or spin it.
First of all, this is Brian Stelter from CNN. Zero credibility. On anything.
Jonah Goldberg and Stephen Hayes have both lightened their relationship with FOX over the past few years. Yes- Tucker is too...aggressively populist for their taste. The relatively new and ever evolving populist/libertarian/conservative mix that is forming the base of the Republican Party is very distasteful to the Peggy Noonan wing of the Party. The George Will wing of the Party. The Stephen Hayes, Jonah Goldberg wing of the Party.
I like reading both Hayes and Goldberg, but have found myself at odds with them on so many things since before Trump. Since Trump they've made less sense to me than the evidence of my own senses- things I see in front of my own eyes. I think that once you're fully embedded into the DC machine, you morph into the UniParty and with a few disagreements, you tend to want the same processes and outcomes as the people across the aisle, even if it hurts you.
They'll not find a comfortable home at CNN or MSNBC either, but at least they can show up at their friends cocktail parties again without having to apologize or explain themselves. The Republican base has moved on, while Hayes and Goldberg are still reading the tea leaves from 2007.
PS- laughed out loud (again) at Christopher Walken in Annie Hall. Man...who plays quietly deranged better than that guy?
Goldberg stopped being interesting even before he was unable to read Trump correctly. He embraced political correctness.
John and Ken on KFI suffered the same fate, apologizing for calling Whitney Houston a crack whore in dismissing the news of her death. You know then that you'll never hear anything further interesting from them. Always censored by career goals in the corporate media that they're in.
“Goldberg and Hayes may be looking for a new gig. They are nonpersons to most conservatives.”
True. Both have apparently sold their souls. In the case of Hayes, it’s disappointing, as I nearly always found Hayes to be insightful and worth a listen.
Goldberg is a fat, hair-plugged blowhard has been.
Tater Stelter is there for our entertainment… there’s something about that effeminate li’l spud that reminds us that there, but for the grace of our Lord, goes Howard.
Back in 2009 Goldberg wrote an excellent little book titled Liberal Fascism. (Available via the Althouse Amazon portal.). Eight years later, when push came to shove, he decided to join the side throwing up their right arms and yelling “Sieg Heil!” And that’s where he’s still at, politically.
“he man” Goldberg, Gahrie?
Thx for the chuckle!
Alternate Title:
Why we're leaving Fox News
When everyone thought we'd left 5 years ago.
And no one cares
The Youtube clip is hilarious. No one did weird/Funny better than Chris Walken.
One has to try to spot commentators' faults early on, and not build them up into something they aren't just because they tell one what one wants to hear. Jonah was always a bit of a clown. He wanted to belong, to be a part of a charmed circle, maybe to be at the center of it. So of course, the clownishness doesn't go away and neither does the desire to be part of the elite or the inner clique. Steve Hayes was a grayer, more forgettable figure, not really much of a leader or an original thinker. Probably nobody is disappointed or angry about his resignation because they didn't expect much from him to begin with.
"Leave me alone" is a major sentiment in politics. But being "left alone" in journalistic circles in NYC or DC is different from being "left alone" for a tax payer in the heartland. One sign of "making it" in the world of higher journalism is that the bothersome nuisances who you believe unnecessarily complicate your life cease to be tax-hungry bureaucrats and politicians and become the dissatisfied taxpayers who are fed up with government meddling.
"Hayes and Goldberg are paid by Facebook to help deplatform conservative groups, particulary pro-life groups."
Provide a link.
I don't know where they get their money. I'd like to see complete transparency and disclosure. Did they lose any money in this disconnection with Fox News or is it an effort to get more money?
I don't like to see public preening over a decision that's basically going for the money?
What is the evidence that they had "golden handcuffs"?
If the "misinformation" Fox News reported was actually the deal breaker for those two has beens wouldn't they have resigned sooner? Patriot Purge has been out for weeks! And that's the most recent issue they have listed.
And as for Golden Handcuffs, I'd say that the only time I saw clips of either of them was when Mollie Hemingway made them look stupid. Maybe that's why they stopped getting booked. It was embarrassing to watch them up against their intellectual betters.
Doesn't Brian Stelter know that "reality based" has become a joke, an insult lobbed by the right against anyone spouting silly left-wing conspiracies? I can't imagine anyone who Stelter is trying to shame nodding and saying, "oh my, you're right!" because he called Goldberg and Hayes reality-based.
But then, I have to think Stelter knows nobody respects or trusts him. He's just filling space between automatic deposits from CNN.
I'm so grateful that Brian Steltzer can give us his objective and unbiased insights into what constitutes conservatism. If we listen to his analysis, I'm sure that conservatism will become more effective and succesfull.
I have not watched any cable new in a year or more. When I did though, it was clear these two had incurable Trump Derangement Syndrome. I understand that PTD style can be abrasive and shocking. However, overall his policies were decent. These two could not get past their hate for PDT and recognize a lot the good policy from the Trump Admin.
They climbed into an intellectual basement and pulled down the ladder.
Way to flounce out, guys!
Tucker Carlson has a funny tweet up.
I don't know how to embed tweets, but its a poster showing his Jan 6th documentary with five stars and the blub
"The Documentary Series that Drove Jonah Goldberg into an Impotent Rage..."
Ha.
Hayes and Goldberg are making very good money heading up their Substack feature "The Dispatch," which features Jonah Goldberg, David French, Sarah Isgur, and Steve Hayes. In the first six months of operation, "Dispatch" generated a million dollars in revenues and increased paywall offerings and true conservative support can only take it up much higher.
When National Review bailed on their "Never Trump" opinion and support for "The Weekly Standard" ended in 2015, new conservative voices were required and "The Dispatch" and "The Bulwark," with Charlie Sykes, Jonathan V Last, Bill Kristol, Tim Miller and Mona Charen, now appear through Substack.
Obviously, Althouse's Trumpist base don't get news from real conservatives - which means they are not of that ilk. So they must attack anyone who doesn't believe in Trump honesty, thus questions about how much money Goldberg and Hayes made for agreeing to do "talking head" work at Fox News becomes an issue - inferring that these columnists did something illegal. It is just possible that Fox News offered up contracts to keep "The Dispatch" folks off cable news.
'Provide a link.'
Not sure about Facebook, but it looks like Google is spreading lots of cash around at what used to be 'conservative' organizations...
https://emeralddb3.substack.com/p/how-the-national-review-sold-its
omidyar has made the point very clear, he helped sink the weekly standard, but subverting their message,
CNN has a new owner who says it needs "actual journalists". Ol' Tater better watch his step lest he wind up wearing bib overalls and doing the farm report at 3AM.
Michael K said...
The new owner of CNN may not be happy with what the former news channel is doing.
***********
Yes. Especially if the new owners are Nick Sandmann and Kyle Rittenhouse, as the Babylon Bee suggests.
https://babylonbee.com/news/rittenhouse-sandmann-agree-to-share-joint-custody-of-cnn
I read elsewhere that Fox News contributors get 6 figure salaries, and that Goldberg said he would not second guess contributors who stay because they need the money.
I still receive Trump fundraising appeals on a daily basis because I once gave $5 each to Trump and Clinton in 2016 to get on their lists. The ultimate grifter.
The Poor Man's *** ***** gadfly: "Hayes and Goldberg are making very good money heading up their Substack feature "The Dispatch," which features Jonah Goldberg, David French, Sarah Isgur, and Steve Hayes.
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
That's exactly what Steve Hayes was saying at the Weekly Standard......right up until the moment the entire charade was brought down.
That's why Hayes/Goldberg are so desperate for their Facebook/Google cash.
It's amazing. There hasn't been a single hoax narrative/establishment lie that gadfly doesn't IMMEDIATELY internalize as "Truthy Truth!" and speaks of with absolute certainty.....up until the very moment he/she/xe has to move on because the lie has been exposed.
This will be no different.
The Poor Man's *** ***** gadfly: "Obviously, Althouse's Trumpist base don't get news from real conservatives....."
The "real conservatives" that have fully supported the far left/democraticals/leftist media for the last 6 years!!
My God!
gadfly is actually still running around like its 2015!
You know gadfly, a few things have happened over the last 6 years. You might want to familiarize yourself with them.
Unless you #BlueAnon types think that's how Putin gets control of you brains.....
'Obviously, Althouse's Trumpist base don't get news from real conservatives...'
Are The Lincoln Project 'true conservatives'?
"The Talk" is what Black parents tell their kids about behaving in society such that the evils of racism they will face can be minimized. It includes expecting racism from officials, police, and everyone else in society, with examples. It includes how to avoid being shot for being black by police and others. It includes how to assess those around you on the basis of their systemic racism to avoid becoming a victim of that racism. It achieved some prominence following the lawful self defense shooting of Trayvon Martin by George Zimmerman in 2012. While "The Talk" was real for Black parents and kids, it was used to propagandize that Trayvon was murdered by a racist - and that the same could happen to you.
John Derbyshire was fired by National Review in 2012 for describing some diversity issues in a statistically accurate manner, with footnotes, in what he labeled The Talk, Nonblack Version. He was vilified for bringing up such subjects.
This diversity of The Talk led to The Atlantic proposing a race-neutral version of The Talk , which is of course racist because it does not take account of skin color, or something.
Ta Naheisi Coates wrote a book version of The Talk in 2016, to some acclaim.
I had my whitebread suburban middle class version of the talk at 16, in 1975, when my father sat me down and told me how to interact with police if stopped while driving. This was in semi-suburban, sorta rural NC. I was warned to say, "Sir" to officers, to obey whatever they said, not to argue, not to cuss, not to fuss, and to let a lawyer and judge solve any problems I might have, but later - because officers have only force at their disposal and I should avoid giving them an opportunity to use it on me via their billy clubs. Same for government officials, academic institutions, and the public at large. I believe he ended with the old adage that nothing good ever happens to kids after midnight on weekends, and that I should never drink and drive.
Such are the racialist fads of yesteryear, much like the racialist fads of today.
Althouse: "Provide a link.
I don't know where they get their money. I'd like to see complete transparency and disclosure. Did they lose any money in this disconnection with Fox News or is it an effort to get more money?"
The Dispatch was exposed by the Federalist for being the "independent fact checker" for Facebook and provided the cover Facebook wanted to kill a series of pro-life ads created by Susan B. Anthony List.
It was only AFTER The Dispatch's subservient and lick-spittle role in this was fully exposed that The Dispatch offered a late piece of crap "apology" for a "failure" in their "fact checking" processes (wink wink!)
Here's a couple links to the Federalist expose of the Dispatches behind the scenes lefty-suck-uppery and the weak tea mea culpa from the pathetic Steve Hayes:
https://thefederalist.com/2020/10/16/nevertrump-website-the-dispatch-colludes-with-big-tech-to-censor-sba-lists-pro-life-ads/
https://factcheck.thedispatch.com/p/update-on-our-women-speak-out-pac
I get confused about labels like conservative. What qualifies Goldberg and Hayes as conservatives? I don't see them as conservative at all. Can they be considered conservative just because they say they are?
Question for liberals: Can I be a progressive liberal if I say I am? What are your litmus tests for being one?
narciso: "omidyar has made the point very clear, he helped sink the weekly standard, but subverting their message,"
Omidyar didn't kill the Weekly Standard. The owner, billionaire Phil Anschutz of Colorado, funded the Weekly Standard, even with the anti-trump stuff because, why not? As long as things were basically philosophically consistent Phil was okay with the overall direction.
However, Hayes and the other NeverTrump/AlwaysDemocraticals were well down the path of Dems Good/republicans bad 100% of the time and Anschutz had finally had enough of them when it became clear to Phil that these idiots were going over that cliff and never coming back.
So Phil pulled the financial plug and showed the entire operation to the door (while retaining rights to the subscription base). Almost none of whom (Weekly Standard subscription base) by the way migrated over to the Bulwark or Hayes/Goldberg's newest pro-dem site the Dispatch.
Hence the Hat in Hand Money Soliciting Tour to Big Tech to attack conservatives....for cash.
Because if the lefties won't pay these morons, no one else will.
Hayes and Goldberg, just like Kristol, Boot, French, Nichols, etc are all just singing for their supper for their fanbase: millionaire lefties.
gadfly said...
Hayes and Goldberg are making very good money heading up their Substack feature "The Dispatch," which features Jonah Goldberg, David French, Sarah Isgur, and Steve Hayes.
No doubt it's just chock full of articles like; "How to make sure your wife's boyfriend has a evening he'll never forget!".
"Dispatch" generated a million dollars in revenues and increased paywall offerings and true conservative support can only take it up much higher."
It has 30,000 subscribers. Almost no one on the Right reads them. They have zero influence among the 46% of the USA that voted for Trump. Go look at Goldberg's twitter feed. It's dead Jim. B
Basically, you can make a good living in Conservative Inc. by doing Google's bidding, pushing the Neo-con line, and being the "reasonable conservative" that plays the Washington Generals to the Regime Media's Globetrotters. IRC, facebook hired the Dispatch to help them police Facebook and Hayes was directly responsible for banning some Pro-life sites or ads.
Matt Lewis writes for leftists at the Daily Beast, Brooks and Mr. Doughnut do the same at the NYT, while George Will/Jen Rubin are the token, fake opposition at the WaPo.
The only people who care what these Con Inc. fakes say anymore are (1) Liberal/leftist and (2) people like Egg mcmuffin, Mitt Romney and Ben Sasse. Goldberg/Hayes aren't on our side, they're the Right-wing of the Liberal/left. That's who they really like, and that's who supports them.
When Jonah Goldberg was called out for his and other National Review fakecons for their vicious attacks on the Covington Catholic High Schoolers, what did Goldberg say: the attacks were "utterly trivial".
"Utterly trivial".
What was the slur these FakeCon "TrueCons" Hayes/Goldberg lobbed at these high schoolers who did nothing wrong except be set up by Hayes/Goldbergs fabulous lefty pals in media?
They, the high schoolers, were “evil” and “might as well have just spit on the cross.”
Yep.
"conserving conservatism" all right.........
Temujin 10:11
Home run.
Joe Smith (to gadfly the Hopeless): "Are The Lincoln Project 'true conservatives'?"
If one goes by the number of links and number of hoax narratives gadfly pushes at Althouse as if he/she/xe were an addled teenager, you'd have to say gadfly considers the Lincoln Pedophile Project the MOST "conservative-y conservative conservatives" alive today.
Which might also explain why gadfly has so vehemently and passionately defended convicted pedophile and child sodomizer Rosenbaum.
Though, in gadfly's defense, he/she/xe hasn't defended Rosenbaum quite as much as Howard.
Ah Stelter. Calling him Mr. Potato and an idiot is an insult to Russet Potatoes and idiots everywhere. Stelter has an opinion--and that's okay since everybody also has a nose and or other bodily orifices.
Annie Hall may be the first Woody Allen film to have that now trademark stark white text on a stark black background credit roll. (Or may not be, the study of the Allen curriculum vitae is not a priority in Quaestor's life.)
Yes, it's cool and disdainfully detached from the Hollywood norm of pre-excitement excitement. But it's also like lead-weighted boots, a detail intended to lend artistic heft to something that is, in the final analysis, only a movie. Consequently, Christopher Walken's name rendered as the unpronounceable "Christopher Wlaken" is quite enigmatic. It should have been quick and easy to fix, but Allen apparently couldn't face the prospect of missing a few Carnegie Deli corned beef sandwiches to bring the film in under budget.
BTW, that only the first time a Walken character drove a Porsche with white-knuckled madness. A few years later he did the same thing in The Dogs of War.
Hi Ann,
I am no LLR Chuck, but instead voted for Trump -- reluctantly -- twice based on the Flight 93 thesis ably articulated by Michael Anton. But I have to say I am surprised that your readership -- or at least that portion of it that comments -- has become as "Trump uber alles" and unthoughtful as the comments above would suggest. Neither Jonah nor Steve represent our greatest intellects but they are capable of thoughtful, respectful debate about the issues of the day, meeting arguments with counterarguments and not Trump's staple, meaningless invective. The reality is that Trump accomplished very little during his presidency other than inartfully attempting to beat back -- and thereby strengthening -- the forces of the progressive left. He alienated large voting blocs that Republicans need to win. He coarsened America's public life. It is true he "fought" but Mike Tyson's opponents fought too until he punched them in the face and put them down. And finally he Lost -- and to paraphrase what he said about John McCain, I prefer someone who doesn't lose.
People are throwing a lot of asserted "facts" out there without any supporting evidence.
You guys are pissing on the blog with that behavior.
BTW, there is a little war between the soft girly "men" of The Bulwark and The Dispatch now because each of these crews is vying for shrinking availability of left wing dollars.
It's one reason The Bulwark's Egg McMuffin (Evan Mullin) has decided to run for office in Utah again! That's the only financial gravy train he can find anymore.
Not to worry. Both the Bulwark neocons and Dispatch cabbage patchers can still sink even further into the left abyss and it will be fun watching them do it.
‘What is the evidence that they had "golden handcuffs"?’
It’s Brian Stelter’s analogy, which he makes rather weakly (“could be likened to”). While golden handcuffs do not necessarily imply a lot of money, it could also be that they are getting paid by appearance, so that not getting booked for appearances meant they were not getting paid much. It’s clear from what Tucker Carlson said, and from the commenters here are saying, that Hayes and Goldberg are being purged from the RWU.
COVID-19 is deadly,
Well, it was deadly back in February through early summer of 2020. Now, not so much, and this despite the federal government’s studied indifference towards remedies.
vaccines work,
I guess they missed the part where the CDC had to change the definition of what it means for a vaccine to “work.” Were they on vacation or something last September?
Joe Biden won Arizona,
Maybe he did. I’m sure that’s why the Democrats fought so long and so tenaciously to prevent anyone from taking a close look at what transpired,
the election was not stolen,
Yes it was. How do I know? I have been the father of young kids. I know what it looks like when someone is acting guilty.
January 6 was not a Deep State-orchestrated “false flag” operation
I have three words for you: James Ray Epps
but was an assault on the Capitol as part of a broader attempt to steal an election
It should not have happened and probably would not have happened in the absence of agent provocateurs. That Trump was outmaneuvered is plain to see. That the election was honest, not so much.
"Irresponsible voices," very cheeky coming from the generalissimo of cable TV's most productive slander factory. Goldberg and Hayes were probably lured into the Depths by seductive promises of pleasure and power, the usual blandishments peddled by minor imps like L'il Spud.
Perhaps they will avoid the flames, but I doubt it. You can't buy back your soul, Jonah. (They don't teach Goethe anymore, do they? Pity.) They're about to discover that traitors are always useful to the enemy, but are also always despised.
Most experts believe Kyle Rittenhouse has little chance of ever prising justice from the ravening, slathering maws of professional liars like Stelter, Scarborough, et al. Consequently, no experienced legal eagle is likely to take up his cause on a contingency. Perhaps there is a young, brilliant, but debt-burdened attorney willing to challenge conventional wisdom on the off-chance of retiring those obligations at a stroke.
gadfly said...
Some really stupid things. Hey gadfly, how is it that you claim to know how much money The Dispatch is getting from substack?
Why no link to that source of information?
"Obviously, Althouse's Trumpist base don't get news from real conservatives - which means they are not of that ilk."
Does this "real" conservative status come with a nifty decoder ring and a secret handshake? Because some of us who don't like Trump and call ourselves conservative also think Goldberg and company are sellouts. They've allowed their (in some cases justified) dislike of Orange the Clown to color how they see everything else. Any attempt to point out the problems of the current narrative smell too much like Trump for them to take seriously. They aren't so much principled as they are snobbish.
"Hayes and Goldberg are paid by Facebook to help deplatform conservative groups, particulary pro-life groups."
Provide a link.
Facebook (Meta): Expanding Facebook's U.S. Fact-Checking Program and Supporting the Fact-Checking Ecosystem
A Breitbart story on the pro-life deplatforming angle:
Nolte: Dispatch’s Fake Fact Check Results in Facebook Blacklisting Pro-Life Ad
A more recent story at The Federalist with a brief but wider look at the Dispatch's "fact-checking" role at Facebook: Facebook Censorship Partner Steve Hayes Defends Facebook’s Election Meddling On Behalf Of Joe Biden
The writing in both pieces is tendentious. But Goldberg's and Hayes's Dispatch is indeed a FB fact-check partner. Given FB's kill-it-with-fire record on right-wing populism on everything from CRT to pro-life issues and The Dispatch's complicity with same, Drago's on solid ground.
Is Gadfly just copying and pasting Dispatch press releases?
Lol
Oh wow. I've never read the article that got Derbyshire fired. Very interesting.
I believe he ended with the old adage that nothing good ever happens to kids after midnight on weekends, and that I should never drink and drive.
Such are the racialist fads of yesteryear, much like the racialist fads of today.
Chris Rock explains how to avoid getting your ass kicked by police.
Somebody brought up self-defense.
I was getting some coffee at one of my usual Exxons a few hours ago, and reading the headlines on the local newspaper's rack. "US laws on self defense leave blurry lines," it announced, in regard to the Rittenhouse case.
You can argue that the lines are blurry (though you'ld be wrong), but the video was clear.
The Discharge and The Bullwank--I forget which is which.
Birches: "Is Gadfly just copying and pasting Dispatch press releases?"
Yes!
Whats really fun is when gadfly attempts to post an original thought! Thats when the real fun begins.
He Who Always Gets It Wrong, Left Bank: "It’s clear from what Tucker Carlson said, and from the commenters here are saying, that Hayes and Goldberg are being purged from the RWU."
LOLOLOLOLOL
In other Left Bank "news", Benedict Arnold was "purged" from the Colonial Army....4 years after defecting to the British.
You know Left Bank, you are not required to Out-Stupid gadfly.
You could quite profitably keep most of your "thoughts" unexpressed and come out way ahead.
I wish you luck!
You might want to pay attention to this, Mr. Stelter.
Billionaire John Malone: CNN Needs 'Actual Journalists'
Maynard: "People are throwing a lot of asserted "facts" out there without any supporting evidence.
You guys are pissing on the blog with that behavior."
I'd say there has been sufficient documentation/evidence provided for the most relevant assertions.
Care to revise your all too hasty comment?
Or would you require us to include an entire list of links for every comment we make?
I couldnt help but notice that you failed to be explicit about which accusations to which you lamented the dearth of links/evidence.
Tsk tsk
Physician heal thyself.
PJ57: "Hi Ann,
I am no LLR Chuck,.."
Then admit that Hayes and Goldberg "thoughtfully" provided faux "fact checks" to aid Facebook in deplatforming conservative groups as well as attacked the Covington High Schoolers, amongst many other conservatives.
Me thinks you doth protest "Im no LLR C****" too much.
Fox News? Is that still a thing? Huh.
Thanks to everyone who provided links. I'd originally thought that Goldberg and his people were simply misguided by their aversion to Trump. Now I understand they have a financial interest in staying misguided. It explains much.
“Question for liberals: Can I be a progressive liberal if I say I am? What are your litmus tests for being one?”
I checked with an old friend who leans left and he says that first you mince around for 2-3 days, get a few facial piercings, a “Prince Albert” (friend noted that the PA isn’t possible for many of their males who suffer from low-T), an ironic hair-don’t and then self-identify.
/Like/ not exactly: Bill Maher challenge to AOC to come on his show they could have reversed challenged Tucker Carlson to include them in interviews
that was tater stelter, move along then, (he's a long running joke on gutfeld)
He alienated large voting blocs that Republicans need to win.
By getting 11 million more votes than in 2016.
Again, way too many 'conservatives' push this bullshit and it's not backed up by the facts.
I love it when Woody ends up being driven at night in the rain with oncoming headlights with Christopher Walken at the wheel.
Julie Kelly reports Hayes and Goldberg were not going to have their contracts renewed in 2022.
Better to quit than be fired.
Looking at Fox News page, Goldberg starts to pop up on Fox News panels after November 7th 2020.
I couldnt help but notice that you failed to be explicit about which accusations to which you lamented the dearth of links/evidence.
Yes Drago. That was my intention.
You are usually pretty good about providing evidence, but you sometimes slip up when you go after the usual trolls who have no evidence other than DNC/MSM talking points.
Once upon a time, I would have assumed that someone on network TV wouldn't say something like "golden handcuffs" unless there was some factual basis for saying it. Now days, however, I wonder how I ever could have been so gullible.
Maynard: "Yes Drago. That was my intention.
You are usually pretty good about providing evidence, but you sometimes slip up when you go after the usual trolls who have no evidence other than DNC/MSM talking points."
Point taken.
He alienated large voting blocs that Republicans need to win.
By getting 11 million more votes than in 2016.
Again, way too many 'conservatives' push this bullshit and it's not backed up by the facts.
______________
And Biden got 7 million more votes than Trump. Many suburban college educated women who detest Trump as a cheater, a boor and an oaf.
PJ57 said...
Hi Ann,
I am no LLR Chuck, but instead voted for Trump -- reluctantly -- twice based on the Flight 93 thesis ably articulated by Michael Anton. But I have to say I am surprised that your readership -- or at least that portion of it that comments -- has become as "Trump uber alles" and unthoughtful as the comments above would suggest. Neither Jonah nor Steve represent our greatest intellects but they are capable of thoughtful, respectful debate about the issues of the day, meeting arguments with counterarguments and not Trump's staple, meaningless invective. The reality is that Trump accomplished very little during his presidency other than inartfully attempting to beat back -- and thereby strengthening -- the forces of the progressive left. He alienated large voting blocs that Republicans need to win. He coarsened America's public life. It is true he "fought" but Mike Tyson's opponents fought too until he punched them in the face and put them down. And finally he Lost -- and to paraphrase what he said about John McCain, I prefer someone who doesn't lose.
Pretty funny that a new commenter appears posting this specific kind of stupidity on an article about 2 Conservative INC. losers.
LLR! Conservative Inc. is the most useless and unimportant political tribe in the country. Their only job was to damage anyone who actually tried to help Americans for their paymasters who are all corporate progressive mandarins.
American Citizens have caught on to this act. Your mask is off. As there are probably less than a 1000 of these professional cuckmasters I wouldn't doubt this is actually Golberg or that other guy.
More people read this blog than give you a second thought.
rcocean: "Julie Kelly reports Hayes and Goldberg were not going to have their contracts renewed in 2022."
Correct:
"Asked about the resignation of Jonah Goldberg and Stephen Hayes, a Fox News executive said that the network did not plan to re-sign them as contributors when their contract came up next year:
LOL!
Goldberg and Hayes! So "principled" and "conservative-y" "conservative"!
Fox News: You're contract is up, now hit the bricks lefties.
Goldberg and Hayes: You can't not re-up our contracts! We quit!....on....er....principle! Yeah, that's it! Principle..........
No wonder gadfly loves those two so very, very, very, (it begins to get disturbing at this point), very much.
Howard: "I love it when Woody ends up being driven at night in the rain with oncoming headlights with Christopher Walken at the wheel."
I hope they didn't cross any state lines.
Cuz I hear that's illegal......
The reality is that Trump accomplished very little during his presidency other than inartfully attempting to beat back -- and thereby strengthening -- the forces of the progressive left. He alienated large voting blocs that Republicans need to win.
I am skeptical about your claim to have voted for Trump. I was not enthusiastic but I did not miss the improved border security, the improved economy, the serious improvement in the Middle East, the moving of the US embassy to Jerusalem after years of empty promises by politicians, some attempt to deal with the Chinese unfair trade and a lot of other factors like HR McMaster's statement that US defense policy was incompetent except in 2017. Who was president in 2017, if you can remember.
Was the "voting bloc" that he "alienated" related to the 11 million more votes he got in 2020?
Biden is still at 36% approval, so Goldberg and Hayes need to keep talking, see if they can get Biden down to Harris's 28%. by defending him at every turn.
We have people here who take the Chinese Communists word for what happened at Wuhan, in defiance of what we say from our own satellite data (pesky video) just because Trump correctly pointed out that they are our competitors and that we had better take them seriously. Those "Republicans" would be far happier if China were still dumping their steel onto US markets, destroying a strategic industry here.
Why they don't admit that they were only Republicans because they believed that the Republicans were the party of the rich, and now that we know the Democrats are the actual party fo the rich, why they don't just come out as Democrats, I just don't know.
"Admirable—and difficult—decision by two people of character and conscience."
--Mitt Romney
LOL!
The circle is complete!
What positions held by Goldberg and Hayes ten years ago have they changed?
As far as I can tell the reason for the jnvexpctive against them is that they detest Trump - that is it.
TDS it’s not just for anti-Trumpers.
Hayes and Goldberg believe in fiscal responsibility and other conservative values, including character. Now, conservatives are tied to cultural issues and really don't give a damn about fiscal or foreign policy stuff.
Joe T.: "Hayes and Goldberg believe in fiscal responsibility and other conservative values, including character. Now, conservatives are tied to cultural issues and really don't give a damn about fiscal or foreign policy stuff."
Thank you for this failed "hot take" which bears no relation to reality.
Hayes and Goldberg's far left funders thank you.
AMDG: "What positions held by Goldberg and Hayes ten years ago have they changed?"
They assist their Facebook pals in deplatforming conservatives, including pro-life groups, by issuing false "fact checks" in service to the lefty agenda.
For money. Cuz thats all they have left: the scraps from Team Dem's table.
Thanks for missing all the links provided up thread.
So, in summary, TDS is still just for anti-Trumpers.
Joe T. said...
Hayes and Goldberg believe in fiscal responsibility and other conservative values, including character
You mean lack of character?
Because grifters who don't even provide value for their grift? That's the diametric opposite from having character
Blogger AMDG said...
What positions held by Goldberg and Hayes ten years ago have they changed?
Voting for Democrats, to name an obvious one.
They were in favor of moving the US Embassy to Jerusalem, until Trump did it
They were opposed to Obama's Iran deal, until Trump killed it
What conservative values, Joe T.? Both openly supported Biden and the Democrats in 2018 and 2020. Both, no doubt, will continue to support Democrats for Congress and Senate in 2022. What I see in both is that they are Democrats, not Republicans, and certainly not conservatives.
"As far as I can tell the reason for the jnvexpctive against them is that they detest Trump - that is it."
As someone who also doesn't much care for Orange the Clown, that's not a problem for me at all. What I have a problem with is the fact that Goldberg and friends have allowed their dislike of Trump to them to ignore pretty much everything else that's going on. Not only won't Goldberg acknowledge that big tech censorship of conservatives is a bad thing, he's actually participating in it. His take on the Russia hoax is that yes it wasn't true, but Trump wanted to collude, so he got what he deserved. Out of all the g files he's written since Biden became President, only a handful are critical of the liberal shit show we are experiencing. Even then it's a yes, but the right is awful too on this issue. So no, his hatred of Trump doesn't bother me. His hatred of conservatives he doesn't have lunch with does.
Brian Stelter. I hope he doesn't find the pharmacy closed when he needs his meds.
Greg the Class Traitor: They were in favor of moving the US Embassy to Jerusalem, until Trump did it
They were opposed to Obama's Iran deal, until Trump killed it
As far as I can tell, both writers consistently supported the embassy move, even offered rare praise for Trump. And both remained opposed to the Iran deal. Goldberg calls it "disastrous" in this column from last year.
https://www.post-gazette.com/opinion/Op-Ed/2020/09/21/Jonah-Goldberg-Trump-deserves-credit-for-Israel-deals/stories/202009190014
@pj57
Looks like we found Jonah's burner account.
Blogger Greg The Class Traitor said...
Blogger AMDG said...
What positions held by Goldberg and Hayes ten years ago have they changed?
Voting for Democrats, to name an obvious one.
They were in favor of moving the US Embassy to Jerusalem, until Trump did it
They were opposed to Obama's Iran deal, until Trump killed it
11/22/21, 8:57 PM
Wrong in all counts. These guys are not Bill Kristol, or heaven forbid Jen Rubin. I don’t know who Hayes voted for but Goldberg has stated he did not vote. They never changed their support of the embassy move or opposition to the Iran deal.
Blogger Chris Lopes said...
"As far as I can tell the reason for the jnvexpctive against them is that they detest Trump - that is it."
As someone who also doesn't much care for Orange the Clown, that's not a problem for me at all. What I have a problem with is the fact that Goldberg and friends have allowed their dislike of Trump to them to ignore pretty much everything else that's going on. Not only won't Goldberg acknowledge that big tech censorship of conservatives is a bad thing, he's actually participating in it. His take on the Russia hoax is that yes it wasn't true, but Trump wanted to collude, so he got what he deserved. Out of all the g files he's written since Biden became President, only a handful are critical of the liberal shit show we are experiencing. Even then it's a yes, but the right is awful too on this issue. So no, his hatred of Trump doesn't bother me. His hatred of conservatives he doesn't have lunch with does.
11/23/21, 2:12 AM
That is a fair criticism. I think that he has been blind to the long term effects of the rise of Wokeness in institutions, for example.
His disdain for the likes of Gaetz and MTG is not born out of snobbishness but of a disdain for those on the right who act like progs in that the narrative is more important than the truth.
I remember that for many years Rush Limbaugh made it a point to make a clear distinction between conservatism and the GOP, which he felt didn't always support minimal taxation, ridding ourselves of deficits, and a strong national defense. It was puzzling, then, that he went all in for Trump, who was probably conservative on the tax issue, but not on the other two. I think Trump was right on the Afghanistan question, and, to some extent, on the idea that the world's defense should not be our responsibility. But I doubt that Limbaugh or, especially, Mark Steyn would have held those positions prior to Trump's presidency. And they sure as hell would have balked at the idea of tariffs.
Goldberg and Hayes are still in that old conservative camp. If you don't agree, fine, but if you were a Republican and conservative in the past, you're the one who changed, not them. And, hell, I don't even agree with them half the time.
At this point, these discussions are based on culture and class, and both parties now define themselves around those issues. The Dems used to have more blue collar voters and took advantage of class envy. Now the tables have turned, since the Dems are dominated by the tech firms that support them and the GOP is now dominated by pissed of blue collar workers who feel, justifiably, that the Democrats ignored their problems. We shouldn't forget, though, that lots of Republicans supported NAFTA and trade normalization with China and would do it again if it was to their advantage. In other words, they'll beg for the blue collar vote, but you won't hear any Republican decide that we need a return of strong labor unions. In other words, you're being played.
Joe T. said...
I think Trump was right on the Afghanistan question, and, to some extent, on the idea that the world's defense should not be our responsibility. But I doubt that Limbaugh or, especially, Mark Steyn would have held those positions prior to Trump's presidency. And they sure as hell would have balked at the idea of tariffs.
Goldberg and Hayes are still in that old conservative camp.
The fuck they are.
The only "camp" they're in is the camp of "pay us".
News flash: Trumps policies are better for most Americans.
1: High levels of unskilled immigration screw over the working class. Which is why in Trump's first months in office, when illegals stopped coming, wages and employment immediately started rising for the working class
2: Being dependent upon China is insanely stupid
The "experts" told us that letting China in the WTO would be good for America. 20 years later, they said "oops, our bad! it was actually really bad for America! but, what's done is dowe, and gee, we pinky swear it will never happen again."
3: The Communist Chinese Gov't is engaged in economic warfare against the US. If you're opposed to tariffs against their goods, it's because you're a moron incapable of learning, or a tool on their payroll.
4: What part of "supply chain crisis caused by dependence on foreign made goods" do you not understand?
Yes, when everything goes right, massive international trade is economically more efficient.
News flash, everything doesn't always go right, and when it doesn't, being dependent upon foreign goods for your political, economic, and military power is suicidal
If you don't agree, fine, but if you were a Republican and conservative in the past, you're the one who changed, not them.
If by "changed" you mean "looked at reality, and upgraded your beliefs based on it", I plead "guilty."
You and Johan are welcome to plead "head stuck up your ass" if that makes you feel better.
Am I pro union? Fuck no. unions are teh defenders of the mediocre.
Am I in favor of rearranging teh US economic system so that people who do go through a college indoctrination can still have a good life? Yes, I am.
That means less "free trade" and a lot less immigration. Not because I love Trump, but because I recognize I bear a moral obligation to my fellow Americans, as well as I'm not stupid enough to want to put my future in hock to the CCP.
What's your excuse?
Quick question: When David French starts talking about Drag Queen Story Hour being a "blessing of liberty", and Jonah and Hayes attacking him for his insane left wing beliefs?
Or are they supporting him?
Without the typos:
If you don't agree, fine, but if you were a Republican and conservative in the past, you're the one who changed, not them.
If by "changed" you mean "looked at reality, and upgraded your beliefs based on it", I plead "guilty."
You and Jonah are welcome to plead "head stuck up your ass" if that makes you feel better.
Am I pro union? Fuck no. Unions are the defenders of the mediocre.
Am I in favor of rearranging the US economic system so that people who do not go through a college indoctrination can still have a good life? Yes, I am.
That means less "free trade" and a lot less immigration. Not because I love Trump, but because I recognize I bear a moral obligation to my fellow Americans, as well as I'm not stupid enough to want to put my future in hock to the CCP.
What's your excuse?
I love that
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