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१०६ टिप्पण्या:
Ban gas stoves, but do nothing about the massive pollution generated by the Chinese.
Because it was never about climate change, but about controlling your life.
What does my gas stove have to do with the disappearance of the ice sheets since the end of the last Ice Age? Why have the last 1000 years been the coolest millennium of the last ten millennia? Where was my gas stove during the Roman Warm Period or the Medieval Warm Period? Why was it warmer in 1000 AD than it is now? How did Earth and Sun do it without my gas stove?
Inquiring minds want to know.
So,
instead of using risky and dangerous natural gas for my stove, i should get an electric?
and use safe and steady natural gas to make the electricity ???
I realize, that the world has been hit by a stupidity ray; but Still!
The article says: the stove "is the one gas appliance in your home that is most likely unvented." Every stove I have ever seen has a range hood with a vent. Mine even vents outside, as do newer-built homes. The obvious solution is to require outside venting, not ban gas.
I bought a new house recently in California and one of the selling points was a gas range. The new law is deeply unpopular.
What emits more Greenhouse Gases, a private jet or my little barely used stove?
My health is my business.
Fuck NPR.
CAGW is a total scam. If there is a problem, it is from China. Even John Kerry said this year, if the US went to net carbon zero today it wouldn't make a difference.
How does one cook on an electric stove when the power goes out because the sun isn't shining and the wind isn't blowing? It happened in TX this year. People died.
And every decent cook knows, the best way to cook is with gas.
When Trump wins next time, he needs to defund fucking NPR.
"We need to talk about...".
Punch the next person who starts a conversation with this phrase. Or...to not draw the Attorney General's attention, just tell them their full of shite.
I've had gas ranges for years. That after working in commercial kitchens- lined with gas ranges & ovens- also for years. Aside from the nodule coming out of my neck trying to form another head, I'm fine. NPR- it's writers and readers- will never be fine. They start the day with a ritual wringing of the hands, and move on from there.
Today's Leftists remind me of the cartoon character Hardy Har Har, the hyena sidekick to Lippy the Lion. Always moaning about what's coming next. Lippy the Lion & Hardy Har Har
"Stove. Whata kinda name is that?"
At my home in GA I have gas. At my home in TN I have electric. There is just no question that gas is better for cooking. I do most of the cooking for the two of us and every time we go up to TN to spend some time I just hate cooking on the electric cooktop; just hate it. We are starting a major renovation on our 35-year old home in TN in the spring and even though it has a nice ceramic cooktop that is easy to clean and maintain and that I just put in about 7 years ago I will have it removed and switch to gas, the plumbing for it was put in the house when it was built. Every home I looked at 2 years ago here in GA when we bought our house had gas cooktops and all are vented. This is more alarmist "climate change" propaganda. I guess Merrick Garland will soon declare me to be a "domestic terrorist" and bring the full weight of the FBI and DOJ to force me to change.
Democrats are letting their fascist freak flags fly.
These are the last gasps.
Let's talk about indoor pollution from nice natural wood burning stoves...
Oh, wait, they're trying to legislate those out of existence also. Although it was OK to donate stoves that didn't meet new regulation to tribes and poor Appalachian communities.
Ryan said... The article says: the stove "is the one gas appliance in your home that is most likely unvented."
When our house was new we had a vented range hood. I removed it due to excessive condensation in the attic and cold air drafts in the kitchen. Perhaps a damper was missing but I couldn't pinpoint the problem. So out it went.
I recently read an anti-gas stove piece where the writer claimed how smoky they are.
Quelle ditz!
My home is about 90 years old. We can see on the wall behind our modern gas stove a metal plate hiding the opening to a flue in the chimney. We've never used it. We've never used a hood and we've NEVER had a problem with a smoky stove.
Cooking on an electric stove is a real pain in the ass. You have to wait for the coils to heat up, and you can't change the heat instantly the way you can with gas.
An aside: who is designing gas stoves today? Certainly not cooks. All the stoves have heavy iron grates over two burners, not one, that would be a a nightmare to clean. You can't even get them into a sink!
Climate has been changing forever. All the predictions about California falling into the sea and New York city being underwater haven't happened...and I am sick and tired of hearing lies so they can steal more of our money to spend on this divisive crap they spew .
"Kephart's family moved into this row house about a year ago, and his wife likes cooking on a gas stove. But, he says, "It's our highest family priority to get it out and to get an electric stove." So 1 year and still no electric range, even as 'highest family priority'? Maybe it is supply chain issue.
Environmentalists want us to freeze to death in the dark.
Here is my stove. Please feel free to stick your head in it and turn on the gas. I'll wait outside.
This is what happens when you daughter or son fails to get a useful degree. It’s the best work, other than barista, that a communications or sociology major can get. Only it would have been better for society if they hadn’t bothered with a degree at all. Give up the presence and simply live the slacker life you desire until mommy and daddy provide their inheritance, funded in large measure by a house with natural gas heat and cooktop.
When an ice storm hits the South power can be out for days. The kitchen stove lets you still eat dinner.
The "Green Agenda" is going to wreck the world economy if the crazies persist.
Some reading material if you are not a crazy.
There are many small reasons for the global energy squeeze, and one big one: Investment in hydrocarbons has collapsed under pressure from the Green agenda adopted by international consensus.
Energy investment in the United States has dwindled as large institutional investors boycott fossil fuel investments. China’s critical electricity shortage is the result of draconian regulation of coal mining, exacerbated by Beijing’s punitive ban on Australian coal imports.
The whole paper is worth reading.
"We need to talk about your gas stove, your health and climate change"
No, we don't.
I blistered the copper bottom off a Revereware pot on an electric stove. Raw food for everyone!
My gas stove kept me warm when I had no power for 2 weeks during Superstorm Sandy. We kept 2 Stock pots full of water on the stove...and turned them on to heat up the room...and to wash up, wash our hair ect. If we had electric..we would have been freezing...dirty and hungry. They can shove their private jets and special perks up their butts...
"Kephart's family moved into this row house about a year ago, and his wife likes cooking on a gas stove. But, he says, "It's our highest family priority to get it out and to get an electric stove." So 1 year and still no electric range, even as 'highest family priority'? Maybe it is supply chain issue
Likely more of a virtue signaling issue. Say the correct things and continue on with what you were doing. Sort of like the New Year's resolution to get a little more exercise and lose some weight.
When power goes out, so does the electric stove. When power goes out, the gas stove works great, just need to use a match to light it. Anyone who has lived during a time of natural disasters or other significant duration of electricity loss knows this is a big deal.
Seems like between the push for electric stoves and electric cars, there's a decided interest that in case of major disaster or electricity people are stuck at home without the ability to cook their food.
Electric stoves are one of the lesser known but still evident signs of privilege where electricity is just a magic never-interrupted resource.
Plus, electric stoves are horrible for warming tortillas, so electric stove promoters are also white supremacists.
"We need to talk about your gas stove, your health and climate change" (NPR)."
"Talk about" = coerce into doing what we tell you. Or else.
This reminds me of the Cash for Clunkers program. Another "environmentally-positive" move that will result in overflowing landfills. Maybe they can help the environment even more by shipping our trashed gas ranges to China.
We have an electric stove in the house we moved into last Fall. It' not the highest on the list, but one of my goals is to replace it with a gas range. There's a gas hookup for it, probably the original but someone added a plug sometime in the last couple decades.
The venting is different than I've seen, more like how a dryer vents, with a hole going straight out through the wall behind it. I'm not sure if that's something I should use or if I should look into putting in a vertical vent/hood (which would add a lot more money/bother to the process).
I sense a theme: Forcing Americans to use unreliable electricity, unreliable voting systems, unreliable schools, unreliable vaccines, unreliable low-flow toilets, unreliable 911 systems, unreliable news sources, unreliable “public health” diktats, unreliable norms and on and on.
These are the last gasps.
@Achilles, if only.
All the stoves have heavy iron grates over two burners
I think it's mostly to spread the weight of a heavy pot over a larger area of the base, which can then be thinner steel, though I still managed to make mine sag at bit in the middle. I was looking for a replacement last year, but even the expensive ones were functionally no better than my '98 Amana. Not worth the trouble to get working igniters.
>>What does my gas stove have to do with the disappearance of the ice sheets since the end of the last Ice Age?
The same thing my SUV has to do with the disappearing ice caps on Mars.
Of course, those on Mars who refuse to take Martian-made Climate Change seriously should be banished for denying science. After all, they only have 10 more years to save their planet. Just like the last three decades.
"You have to wait for the coils to heat up, and you can't change the heat instantly the way you can with gas."
But you are still using a pan and it must heat up and cool down. I think it's more of an emotional sense of speed that you get from seeing the flame. It's not a real difference.
But you are still using a pan and it must heat up and cool down. I think it's more of an emotional sense of speed that you get from seeing the flame. It's not a real difference.
I've cooked on both and it's a real difference. It's not even close to the same on older electric stoves.
To be fair, my sister-in-law has a new electric stove and it's definitely faster heating up than older ones.
The corrupt Solyndra left can go fuck itself.
too be fair to NPR... They kinda DO have a point
While you only use the burners for a few minutes a day; the Pilot Lights are burning CONTINUOUSLY
AND, if a Pilot light blows out; it will be venting raw natural gas into your home...
Of Course; ANY gas stove made in This century (in fact, any gas stove made in the last 40 years),
WON'T Have pilot lights, so this is an Old Story, about Old Problems
But, you can't blame the NPR for living in the past... It's What They DO
"I think it's more of an emotional sense of speed that you get from seeing the flame."
Is that anything like the emotional sense of smugness you get from forcing your obviously superior ideas on those too obtuse to understand them?
Get an induction cooktop, you will never go back to gas. Extremely fast heating and control.
Josiah Kephart is an environmental epidemiologist
The NPR expert had to go "rent" a meter to measure that which he was an expert on? If he was an F'ing expert, he would have taken one of the three in his lab.
I also loved the Portland wiman (I live nearby) who said she went electric after the evil GOP legislators blocked a carbon tax law.
Earth to NPR: The Oregon Legislature is a Dem majority in both houses and a Dem dimwit Gov. The GOP can't block $hit by itself. Which means that the accurate statement would be
"the radical bill to tax carbon was block by a bi-partisan group of sane lawmakers"
Where is all this stupendous amount of electricity of the future going to come from? It won't be hydroelectric, won't be coal, won't be nuclear, won't be killbird propellers. And it ain't gonna be tin foil on your roofs. Next up, no gas heating.
"But you are still using a pan and it must heat up and cool down."
Ann what? No. Electric resistance coils release their heat slowly and retain the heat energy they've accumulated even after the electricity has been turned off. Induction stove tops will instantly stop providing power but don't work for every type of pot or pan.
The heat in the pan or pot is passed to the food being cooked very quickly, so once you remove a heat source, the cooking surface and the food reach a heat equilibrium and both the pan and the food are releasing heat. Some cooking items, like cast iron pans, release heat slower and will keep adding heat to the food, e.g. the sizzling fajita dish at Chili's is heated cast iron.
Cooking on electric coils makes every pan act like a cast iron pan.
It’s not about the speed of heating from cold it’s the ability to instantly and infinitely control the heat level during cooking. An electric coil doesn’t cool quickly and is slower to reheat. Some chefs like induction cooking- I’ve found the temp control better than coils but inferior to gas…
When an ice storm hits the South power can be out for days. The kitchen stove lets you still eat dinner.
Not just the South. The electricity goes out when heavy snow breaks tree branches which fall on power lines, as happens at least once a year where I've lived in the snow belt: Chicago and Denver.
Gas furnaces don't run without electricity but pilot light or manual piezo fireplaces do, as do gas stoves if lit with a match. I wouldn't do without at least one of those appliances. Whatever it takes to keep the pipes from freezing.
I used to cook with electric. Now I cook with gas.
Gas absolutely cools down quicker. I cools down - because the flame is gone. The electric is off, but the heat lingers.
The collective Solyndra left are coming after NATURAL GAS.
"I think it's more of an emotional sense of speed that you get from seeing the flame. It's not a real difference."
Nonsense on stilts. The electric stove has the heat inertia of the coils. The gas stove doesn't. On a gas stove, the flame is instantly giving off the amount of heat you've chosen, the speed of temperature change is only affected by the cooking vessel, which you chose to do what you want. On an electric stove, in addition to heating and cooling the pan, you have a lag in temperature change (heating and cooling) driven entirely by that damn coil. Turn off the heat entirely, for example. The heat from the gas stove immediately stops flowing into the pan. The heat from the electric stove will continue to flow into the pan for minutes. Cooking on electric is awful. Professional chefs don't use electric stoves; there's a reason for that.
"I think it's more of an emotional sense of speed that you get from seeing the flame. It's not a real difference."
One can heat up a pan on a gas stove much faster than on electric, as that is an inherent quality of gas: almost instantaneous application of BTUs to the surface to be heated, as opposed to electric which must first heat the transmission material and then apply said heat to the surface to be heated.
Regardless of how I feel about it, I cannot change the laws of physics. And neither can you nor the greenies (which is why their crusade is bound to fail).
"It's not a real difference."
Not so sure about this. Yes, the pan must heat up and cool down, but that change is in addition to the change in the heat source. If the two heat sources behave differently, and they do, the overall change will reflect that.
I have a gas stove and some friends have electric. I occasionally cook on their stove. I suppose I could get accustomed to electric, but it's definitely a different experience.
I find the biggest problem is adjusting the heat downward. I've had to remove the pan from the electric stove because it is slower to cool than the gas stove.
This has turned into the gas vs electric cooking debate. Heard it all the time when I was selling appliances. My take- you can cook on either, slightly differences that don't mean much, and the food tastes the same. It's made in a pan. Steak (and other things) taste better cooked over charcoal... not propane.
Dual fuel stoves are a big thing among people with more money. Electric oven, gas cooktop. For baking electric is better. Tighter control of temperature. Unless you spend a small fortune getting one of those ovens which is on all the time with the oven at 350°F. That's the temp you'll be cooking at, not 375°, not 325°. All your recipes will have to be adjusted accordingly. They're on all the time because they're massive- takes hours to heat up or cool down.
As for instant heat- I like my induction cooktop.
And for availability during a power crisis? A generator works wonders. And you can cook on charcoal (or propane) even in the middle of winter. Done it camping many a time.
We need to talk about NPR and your mental health.
The focus on possible mental health risks due to NPR is part of a broader campaign by taxpayers to kick out public funding of propaganda that supports Marxism.
"But you are still using a pan and it must heat up and cool down. I think it's more of an emotional sense of speed that you get from seeing the flame. It's not a real difference."
As someone who recently switched from electric to gas, I can tell you it is a very real difference. All else equal, the pan obviously will cool down or heat up the same, but all else is not equal. With a gas stove, you adjust the flame and the heat applied to the pan changes at that very moment, but with electric, the coil must heat up or cool down to change the heat applied to the pan and it is definitely not in an instant.
I figured someone must have done some side by side comparisons, though I was not successful in finding one. But the fact that almost all professional kitchens have gas ranges is a useful data point.
I've only used induction once, at an airbnb, but it did seem to be more or less instantaneous. All of that to say, I prefer gas for cooking things that require better temp control, but electric has some advantages. I have to worry more about scorching for a long simmering dish with gas than I did with electric.
I grew up in a house with an old-fashioned electric range. Since then I've had several homes with gas ranges, and currently I have an induction range top (which I bought because the gas company was going to charge $35,000 to run a line to the condo). My experience is: (1) the old electric ranges are terrible, they are slow to heat, slow to cool, and impossible to gauge accurately. (2) the induction range heats and cools very quickly, even faster than gas, but it's not as accurate as gas. That's because gas has an analog control, permitting an infinite range of temperatures, while the induction range only has ten pre-set digital settings, ranging from simmer to Hi. If you want a temperature in-between, you're out of luck. (3) Two minor advantages of an induction range is that it throws off a lot less heat into the kitchen, so you can get by with a less powerful vent fan, and it's easier to clean than a gas range. My personal preference as a cook is gas, because it's so much easier to get just the temperature you want.
The crazy radicals who are trying to outlaw natural gas for cooking all deserve to be exiled to some island where the only food is Chef Boyardee spaghetti heated on an electric stove.
But you are still using a pan and it must heat up and cool down. I think it's more of an emotional sense of speed that you get from seeing the flame. It's not a real difference.
High quality pans hold the heat and thus, there is little difference between gas and electric. However, less insulated pans (i.e., the cheaper ones) lose heat rapidly, so the difference between gas and electric is significant.
I have cooked on both gas and electric and with high and low quality pots and pans. I much prefer cooking with gas because it gives me a greater sense of control. In some cases that sense of control is illusory, but so what?
I had an induction stovetop in the first home I owned. Far better than the gas and electric stoves I had in my rentals. My aluminum pots and pans became useless but I was happy to move up to stainless steel and cast iron. As far as baking goes regular electric has always worked better for me than gas.
The main satisfaction you get from gas is visual and you are hurting the air quality in your house.
Anyone besides me notice that the left proposes ever more migration to electricity (EVs, stoves) but how much money is in the infrastructure bill for adding capacity and hardening America’s electrical grid? It comes to $15 billion (plus $12 billion in borrowing authority). How much is needed? The lowest estimate I’ve read is $550 billion.
How about we forget about leftie pipe dreams for EVs, electric stoves, high speed rail (all successful high speed rail runs on electric power instead of diesel locomotives), etc. until we have a power grid with the capacity to support those pipe dreams, and which is hardened against a possible future Carrington Event.
I prefer the sleek visual of an induction cook-top.
Gas is ugly. But I don't care - gas is what I prefer to cook with.
Now that I know the left are coming after it - I won't switch. No way.
Tho - at some point the totalitarian Solyndras will force my gas range out of my cold dead hands.
I heard it on NPR.
This is not just an attack on gas in the home. It will become an attack on gas in industrial use and electric generation. They cannot make Wind and solar work and they cannot justify the ridiculous amount of batteries that would be needed to make "renewables" even somewhat reliable. Therefore they need to demonize the use of gas.
Also they want it removed from the home because that is one step closer to all electric everything. It is about making you totally dependent on the power grid they are doing everything they can to destabilize.
the Pilot Lights are burning CONTINUOUSLY
My gas stove is ancient. No Pilot light for it!
"and you are hurting the air quality in your house."
Assuming for the sake of argument that's true, so what? It's MY house. Right?
Foodies and The French Laundry vs NPR and Extinction Rebellion. "Yan Can Cook" uses gas. Reruns will be worthless. This will be fun!
"The main satisfaction you get from gas is visual "
This is absolutely wrong. You have obviously never cooked on an electric stovetop. The burner stays hot hot hot for several minutes after you turn it off. I can slide a boiling pot off the electric burner, turn off the burner, and the pot stops boiling. If I slide it back on the OFF burner, it starts boiling again.
Many cities in the very expensive Bay Area are pushing to eliminate gas in new homes and for any project that requires pulling a permit. Heating with electricity is far more expensive that heating with gas, so they are actively making it more expensive to have a roof over your head. We get commercials on TV urging us to not use electricity during periods of high demand because California resists producing more energy. So we're not supposed to cook in the late afternoon or early evening, aka dinner time? And as others have mentioned, what do we do when the power is out, like with the shutdowns we have sometimes? These people are idiots.
And no, the main satisfaction from gas is not the visual. The main satisfaction is that it works well. I cook for my Mom on her electric stove at least once a week and it is terrible. It takes a long time to start cooking. It takes a long time to cool down. Sometimes the coils are not properly connected after cleaning so they don't work at all. The coils are not level so food sloshes to one side of the pan. Yes, I've heard good things about induction stoves, but then I remember hearing good things about CFL lightbulbs. Oftentimes reality doesn't match the hype. Let me make my own decisions.
Once again the USA is presented as the fall guy. Something like 2 billion people
world-wide cook over open biomass-fueled fires. Wood, grass, dried yak turds,
what-have-you, the result is black carbon pollution, amongst the worst
if yer concerned about global warning....
Once again the USA is presented as the fall guy. Something like 2 billion people
world-wide cook over open biomass-fueled fires. Wood, grass, dried yak turds,
what-have-you, the result is black carbon pollution, amongst the worst
if yer concerned about global warning....
Ann,
The main satisfaction you get from gas is visual and you are hurting the air quality in your house.
Haven't you read the several comments just above explaining why the first part of that sentence is simply not true? Really, it isn't. When you turn on a gas burner, the heat flows instantly. When you turn it off, the flow stops instantly. This isn't true of electrical coils. I don't know how else to put it.
As for the air quality -- well, my electric stovetop (GE) has a vent that can be raised from the back and sucks smoke out if you're getting smoke. As I am right now, because one of the coils (the largest and most-used one) about six weeks back suddenly started producing two levels of heat, "off" and "maximum." Burned two dinners (and damaged a very nice nonstick skillet -- three goes at it with oxalic acid haven't restored it yet) before this became absolutely clear.
Meanwhile, nearly every gas stove I have ever seen has an overhead hood to vent it. Certainly that was the case in the last four or five homes I've lived in before this one. I'm kind of stuck with the electric here, because the kitchen is so designed that you couldn't put in a hood at all. But like everyone else here, I far prefer cooking with gas.
That you can still cook in a power outage is no joke, as we discovered in Feb. when an ice storm cut off all power in my neighborhood (indeed, most of Salem) for a solid week. The only heat in the house came from . . . the gas fireplace, which of course these CA idiots want to get rid of, too. And candles, which also "hurt the air quality" in the house. Sorry: My lungs, my building. We bedded down by the fireplace for five days and ate cold soup out of cans, before giving it up and spending the last two nights in a motel in another city that still had power (Dallas -- ironically the "real" Dallas in TX was then a lot colder than we were).
Please don't try to tell me that my cooking experience is "all in my head" or "emotional." It's insulting.
"The main satisfaction you get from gas is visual and you are hurting the air quality in your house."
So after a number of commenters have told you about their own experiences with gas verses electric stoves and why they are different (and the physics behind it), you insist it's just a visual thing. That sounds rather Karenish.
"Burning gas emits pollutants that can cause or worsen respiratory illnesses.
Weasel word bolded.
A big rock can crush you. You can drown in a 5 gallon bucket of water. Just because something can happen does not mean it will.
My dad just finished his new house that he built after he retired.
Propane all the way. Why? It's in the mountains... only utility there is electricity at high prices. Propane is a dollar 5 a gallon.
He has solar, but he has no range. Why not? He ordered a range... last October. It has not shown up yet. Yes, over a year!
If he had ordered a propane/gas stove, he'd likely have had it by now. He heats with two propane fireplaces. Getting too old to do pellets/firewood, and there's no natural gas to the property. Only other choice would be electric, and that's a fools game. Propane gas fireplace works with no power. And the way Biden is destroying our economy, we are going to all have rolling, weeklong blackouts before too long.
“And every decent cook knows, the best way to cook is with gas.”
No surprise, coming from Begley in Omaha. Beef country. My partner’s first husband was a classically trained executive chef at one of the big hotels in Las Vegas. He preferred gas for meat, and electric for most everything else. The big difference there is that electric stays hot longer after you turn it off, and heats up more slowly. That is good for somethings, but not for others, such as searing meat. They had electric at home, and he ended up dying as a result of a fire in one of his kitchens at work (plus some medical malpractice). Her French grandmother, who always had food cooking on the stove preferred traditional gas, but my partner replaced the gas range in her mother’s house with electric when her mother had a brain aneurysm. We have electric in MT, and gas range (but electric over) in PHX, which came with a lot of upgrades - and this was one she would have foregone, if she had had the choice. We just don’t eat the sort of stuff any more that benefits from a gas burner (besides, we are running gas to the barbecue that will be going into the back yard). She won’t switch the gas for electric in our PHX house, because of resale value of the house. So, my latest suggestion is to put in a second oven with electric burners on top. That is apparently popular in really upscale houses. We shall see.
Without ventilation there are plenty of airborne contaminants in the atmosphere of your home, cleaning agent fumes, mold, dust, etc. With ventilation all is removed. In the mountain west fire places, wood stoves and firepits are considered woke, who knows why, worse than gas.
A gas cooktop should always be vented. It's typically code that it must be. A bout of flatulence does more to hurt the air quality in your home than does a gas stove. Just ask my wife.
Charlie is right about induction cooktops. Faster, more responsive and precise, and much, much easier to clean than gas. You need cookware with a high iron content, widely available. The pot or pan is heated by magnetic coils concealed under the burner while the actual cooktop remains relatively cool. Wipes clean with a dishcloth. Induction costs more (about a $1,000 premium in Canada) but worth every cent. Foundries typically use induction to melt cold iron and steel in about five minutes. Why induction cooktops are not more popular in North America is a mystery to me.
Ann Althouse said...
The main satisfaction you get from gas is visual and you are hurting the air quality in your house.
Well, as many have pointed out already, visual satisfaction is the least of it. Induction burners lack this so called visual satisfaction, but are nearly as good to cook on as gas.
Second, the air quality in my house is no one's business but my own.
This is just the first step in banning natural gas. Bellingham, WA has already done that. The building code organization in Washington want to do the same. Because, natural gas is such an effect heating fuel it must be banned. To save the planet, don't you know!
CO2 is not some heating dial that can change the temperature. Turn up the dial and it gets warmer and turn it down for cooler. NOT. It's all fraud.
"The main satisfaction you get from gas is visual and you are hurting the air quality in your house."
IOW, it's a good idea to get the men with guns to make you share my preferences. It's for your own good because your preferences are based on stupidity.
you are hurting the air quality in your house.
How ? This is greenie politics and has no connection to reality.
According to the U.S. Energy Administration website:
https://www.eia.gov/state/data.php?sid=WI
The largest percentage of electricity generation (41.6%) in Wisconsin is from coal fired plants, which is about double the US average (23.3%). If you're using your electric stove in Wisconsin, you are hurting the air quality for everybody in the state.
I just love it when people tell me why I am enjoying something so that they can the follow up with telling me how that's wrong, and why I ought to be doing something else that falls in line with their values, which might be relevant to their circumstances.
To them I say - well, you know - the obvious, forcefully.
By the way: Modern gas stoves do not have continuous pilot lights, they have a fancy new concept called 'ignition'.
And also - remembering that hurricane prone areas are often without power for weeks to months after storm devastation - it does bear mentioning that gas still works for cooking (and heat), in the absence of electricity...
This is where the quotation from CS Lewis about tyrannies and moral busybodies once again proves its timeless mettle.
The politics of scarcity and division - Joe Biden did that.
>>I think it's more of an emotional sense of speed that you get from seeing the flame. It's not a real difference.<<
Good grief. That amazingly incognizant statement makes it quite clear that you don't cook much -- or at least not beyond a rudimentary level.
"The main satisfaction you get from gas is visual and you are hurting the air quality in your house."
That's stupid.
Blogger Menahem Globus said...
Best handle ever. I salute you.
Just think of the future environmental injustice meted out to "folks" living near gas-fired power plants, while whiteys cooking in their gourmet kitchens with electric stoves get to preen over their kitchen air quality.
(and just wait until mandated EVs drive electrical power consumption and prices sky-high. Not gonna help "folks" in the hood parking their old heaps on the street blocks away from charging stations)
But...fuck'em.
You know what hurts the air quality in my house? The glass topped electric stove that either doesn't get hot enough, or burns the food creating smoke.
The main satisfaction is a responsive heat that turns down as quickly as it turns up. It is so easy to cook on a gas flame compared to on an electric cooktop. It's intuitive, unlike electric, which has to be learned by trial and error, apparently. Electric is not worth the effort.
Michael K said...
you are hurting the air quality in your house.
How ? This is greenie politics and has no connection to reality.
****************
How about just opening windows?
Too hot for that? Just fire up your electric A/Cs.
Too cold to do that? Just fire up your electric furnace.
There's green weenie AOC economics in a coupla sentences.
"If you're using your electric stove in Wisconsin, you are hurting the air quality for everybody in the state."
Natural gas emits half the carbon dioxide of coal and none of the mercury like the mercury from coal, 2 oz per ton, which has poisoned all the water on the planet so that we have to be careful eating fish.
AOC has come up with a simple rubric to determine good and bad energy.
If it comes out of the wall (electricity) is is clean and good.
If it comes out of the ground, it is dirty and bad.
If you want to save the Earth take power from the magic wall outlets.
Please keep this in mind when deciding to use gas or electric stoves.
A bout of flatulence does more to hurt the air quality in your home than does a gas stove. Just ask my wife.
Which is why Green New Dealers want to ban meat because cows fart a lot.
Maybe we should ban beans (which I love). That will make my wife happy.
The really silly bit of this is that the electricity used by the electric cooktop was most likely generated by burning coal or natural gas. Don't forget that the greens also want to shut down nuclear power. To a first-order approximation then, the net effect on CO2 of cooking with electricity instead of gas is zero.
As Bruce Hayden says, electric cooktops are most inferior for cooking beef. Like Bruce, I tend to do most meat cooking outside on the grill. I recently switched from a propane grill to a charcoal grill/smoker that has a thermostat. So I can smoke for hours at 225 degrees, or sear a steak at 700 degrees. And in both cases, I get that great charcoal taste.
I'm sorry Ann, but you're wrong. I grew up with an electric stove. Gas was a revelation. Far, far superior. As is gas heat vs electric heat. I'll never go back
"The main satisfaction you get from gas is visual and you are hurting the air quality in your house."
If you need visual proof, turn on an electric burner and time how long it takes before it’s hot enough to see in the dark. Now do the same with a gas burner.
I'm mostly with the gas preference here. Which is what I have in Boston. Vented but, unfortunately, not to the outside, which is a bit of a problem because the building has very sensitive smoke detectors that are wired into the fire department. If anyone in the (7-unit) building makes a mistake (I've done it three or four times in fifteen years), the next thing you know the alarms are blazing, the elevator is shut down, and you have to walk down the stairs, wait for the fire department to show up and inspect things, then wait for the building manager to turn the elevator back on (or walk back up, which I'm getting too old for). Always seems to happen on a Saturday night. So I'm terrified to do things like turning up the oven too high because it might end up generating smoke.
Induction cooktop is potentially a good alternative, particularly with cast iron cookware or the like. I've had one in N.H. for about five years, replacing an old electric one that was just awful. Looks beautiful. However, the electronic controls are confusing and don't seem to be very responsive. It also seems hard to strike a balance between overheating and undercoating. One minute things are boiling away much too hard, you try to adjust, and then you can't even get a simmer.
If I recall correctly, my old unit in Boston had a gas stove with pilot lights. But I rehabbed so, yeah, the pilot light issue is a red herring.
--gpm
At Peace Pavilion West, we use only the most natural of gases: Goat farts and the fuel from the corpse copse.
New members are always welcome.
We're looking for writers, bloggers and artists.
Namaste.
We need to talk about the Left and their stupid narratives.
… and you are hurting the air quality in your house.
@Althouse, this assertion of yours has been bothering me all evening. I have to ask, will there ever come a time when you learn to evince some level of skepticism towards junk science? Yes, you’re 70, but that is not too old to still learn new things.
Given the reaction she "garnered", I suspect our hostess was (very successfully) trolling us. :)
Gee, do Haitians even recycle?
Gas stoves use very little gas compared to gas water heaters, which use much much less gas than furnaces anywhere cold enough to justify not using a heat pump. Wrong target, as usual.
Why does everything have to be so stupid!
"The most common pollutants from gas stoves are nitrogen dioxide (NO2), carbon monoxide and formaldehyde."
These things are giving parts per billion, which the WHO has problems with but the US EPA doesn't, at least not at ppb levels. The vast majority of the combustion of gas is as follows:
CH4 to CO2 + 2H2O
Greens are playing off of the scary ppb because they're actually concerned about global warming. But here's the problem: Most US electricity comes from burning that same gas or coal, the latter gives off about twice the CO2 per energy content. Some of the combustion becomes electricity, of which some more is lost in transmission and essentially all the remaining energy becomes heat in your range. Less CO2 is generated by just heating at the place where you need heat. It is beyond argument that switching gas stoves to electric will increase CO2 output. If greens had brains, they would be advocating for switching electric stoves, hot water heaters and dryers to gas. Of course, if greens had brains, they wouldn't be greens.
When I lived in a Baltimore rowhouse, built in 1918 or so, I used the perfectly safe 1930s gas range for heating the first floor on cold mornings. It was called a "Dundalk Heater" by my Bawlmer-native neighbors, after the east side neighborhood famed for being dirty and poor.
And whenever someone says to me, "We need to talk about...," I always respond, "What will you pay me to listen?" Generally, I don't have to, after that.
San Jose,CA, just banned gas in New construction. Listening to the official remarks about that, while simultaneously reading flyers from PG&E about power outages, AND testing my generator, was fun.
Life in CA gets more surreal every day.
Note that those electricity outages occur both during winter storms, and during summer / fall fire season. I don't even blame PGE for this. The California Public Utilities Commission has been an incompetent and corrupt organization since they caved to the TURN (towards utility rate normalization) activists back in the 70s.
"the Pilot Lights are burning CONTINUOUSLY" Gas appliances of all sorts got rid of pilot lights decades ago. Gas dryers and furnaces use hot-surface ignitors (and won't run when there's no electricity); gas ranges use piezo ignitors for the stovetop and a variety of methods for the oven (although you can always light the burner with a match if the piezo doesn't work).
Unfortunately electric stoves took a big step into annoyance in 2018 when UL decreed that stovetop burners must incorporate a temperature-sensing element for safety. That's typically a flat sensor under the center of the pan, but if the pan isn't perfectly flat the sensor will overheat and shut down the burner. For your own good, of course.
Is it worth pointing out that natural gas is the cleanest-burning of all fossil fuels, or that because it contains four hydrogen atoms for every carbon atom it produces less CO2 per BTU than any other fossil fuel?
Sometimes I suspect that zealots won't be happy until it's impossible to cook in your own home. After all, your home kitchen is not regularly inspected (as commercial kitchens are). And there's always some non-zero risk you might start a kitchen fire and that that fire might then get out of control.
Although microwaves might be permitted in the interim before all home cooking is banned, especially if they're rigged to only cook foods deemed environmentally responsible (as indicated by a one-time-use electronic sensor hidden in the food packaging).
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