That caught my eye because I was just reading a diary entry from 2017 in David Sedaris's new "Carnival of Snackery" about the decision to get rid of "Ladies and gentlemen" in announcements on the London Underground:
There’s something sad about this to me. It’s like a casual Friday for language, only it’s not just on Friday. I rather liked being thought of as a gentleman. Yes, I’d think whenever I heard it, I believe I’m up for this.
The new announcements, he writes, would begin “Hello, everyone.”
You know, it's funny that "Ladies and gentlemen" lasted as long as it did. Even 60 years ago, it sounded old fashioned. It was corny announcer-talk. It seemed to imagine an audience that was much more dressed up and proper than the people who'd actually shown up. It added some humorous grandeur or an edge of hucksterism. And that was long before any complicated gender critique bubbled up in the culture.
ADDED: Milton Berle used to say "Ladies and germs" as a joke.
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“Hello, everyone.”
This phrase is obviously racist, homophobic, sexist, ableist, transphobic and deeply offends me as a gay BIPOC womyn, even though I'm actually a straight white dude.
Old burlesque gag: I would say "Ladies and Gentlemen", but you know what you are.
The new announcements, he writes, would begin “Hello, everyone.
The word everyone is superfluous. Just say Hello.
On second thought, the entire greeting is superfluous.
Only the information itself should be stated.
I love the phrase and usage of 'Ladies and Gentlemen'. To me, though I know it once referred to an upper crust of society, it later just came to be the language of civil society. People of any crust level who engaged together civilly, with manners, appropriate respect toward each other. So yes- that's much harder to use today when very few interact with class, manners, appropriate respect.
I'm currently reading "Rules of Civility" by Amor Towles. It's a portrait of Manhattanites in the late 1930's. I love the language used by the 'proper' people. That language was distributed for awhile to various strata of the population. It's been removed over the last couple of decades. Language today is abysmal.
Get off my lawn!
Hello, comrades.
Well, that’s fucked. I always thought the Brits had class.
Wokeness is breaking out in institutions all over and who do we have to thank for that? Attorneys who work for these institutions and attorneys who work for liability insurance companies that are supposed to protect these institutions. These institutions are laying down a defense for the lawsuits of the future that surely will be filed by special interest groups against these institutions because the institutions aren't woke enough. (Bake the cake, bigot.)
The phrase “ladies and gentlemen” carried in it the silent message “we will provisionally accord you the courtesy of this status, it is up to you to earn it by your good behavior.” That is delivered on the social carrier frequency, under the express content of whatever communication is being made. It is the background music to a civilized existence. Which depends on, largely consists of, the constant tiny multitudinous gestures and rituals we all perform —or should.
Of course it is easily parodied. Of course it attracts mockery from second-rate comedians. Of course it is the butt of adolescent pranks. But it still matters.
Well, it used to matter. But no more: because some hysterical self-appointed victim needs to rewrite convention to right an imaginary wrong, and browbeat the rest of society into accepting a sterile and rootless salutation.
This is not nit-picking. This is breaking down the fabric of our common life.
I suggest "Hey Maggot Chow". It is accurate and has none of the worries about gender issues.
Hello, comrades.
Indeed.
The phrase “ladies and gentlemen” carried in it the silent message “we will provisionally accord you the courtesy of this status, it is up to you to earn it by your good behavior.”
Owen, you are a treasure. I think that our host, with her charge of "smacks of hucksterism," is doing her thing about getting the commentariat to reexamine their postulates. But then I recall that she also has that "civility bullshit" tag, and I realize with a chill that she might be one of the many who believe that etiquette is stupidly precious and has no value.
I love that Miss Manners (for example) addressed not only how to "be polite" in the commonly understood sense of "be nice," but also how to insult someone publicly and how to respond to an insult in ways that don't result in bloodshed (usually).
Then again, our host has a pretty good sense of these, it seems to me. So maybe she's always trolling when it comes to manners.
Being “inclusive” by EXcluding 99.8% of Homo sapiens
The new announcements, he writes, would begin “Hello, everyone.”
It's the UK, shouldn't that be; "Oi! Listen up, you lot!"?
Hello everyone.
This is your pilot.
We hope he/xe/ze/sie/they are enjoying himself/xirself/zerself/hirself/themselves on the flight.
Just part of the general collapse of standards. No one wants to be "judgy."
(In this country) to be a lady or a gentleman was simply to treat other people with kindness, courtesy, and respect. To address a group as "Ladies and Gentlemen" was just to give them the benefit of the doubt, and maybe get them thinking about whether they qualified.
"Everyone" implies the singular, which is obviously problematic for those with plural pronouns. Just shut up and we can all be happy.
Yeah I agree this is ridiculous. What I love about the phrase "ladies and gentlemen" announced over a loudspeaker is that at harkens back to the good old days when minorities knew their place.
I worked in England the Summer of 2001 with a bunch of retired Brit officers. When my spouse came for a visit, my co-workers wanted to meet my "Lady Wife"
Reading British Airways' new advice reminded me of the greatest and most British in-flight announcement ever:
"Ladies and gentlemen, this is your captain speaking. We have a small problem. All four engines have stopped. We are doing our damnedest to get them going again. I trust you are not in too much distress."
- Captain Eric Moody, British Airways Flight 9 (Speedbird 9), June 24, 1982, after flying through a cloud of volcanic ash
Jamie, 8:24, re public insult:
You've just reminded me of one of my favorite Miss Manners anecdotes. (If you like her, you probably know this one.) She recalled being president of a school board and disagreeing with another member about everything. As the board's discussions grew more contentious, the man suggested they take the board on a retreat so they could get to know each other better. She replied,
"You don't understand. The only reason I haven't murdered you is that I really don't know you all that well, so I feel I have to give you the benefit of the doubt. Do you want to remove that doubt?"
"Even 60 years ago, it sounded old fashioned."
45 years ago I started traveling for business. Most travelers flew dressed in formal business attire. It was common for men to carry a large briefcase on the plane that contained a compartment that held a clean folded dress shirt and a change of underwear for overnight travel.
50+ years ago my high school coaches wore a coat and tie to football and basketball games. Many of the men in the bleachers were dressed in a coat and tie.
"Greetings, carbon-based lifeforms..."
"British Airways has advised pilots and cabin crew not to refer to passengers as 'ladies and gentlemen' in onboard announcements as the carrier [offends and insults] the 'diversity and inclusion' of its customers...."
Even 60 years ago, it sounded old fashioned. It was corny announcer-talk.
Common etiquette and politeness is that way: Out of fashion in our let's-be-a**holes-to-each-other culture.
How do they know the crowd's chosen pronoun is everyone?
Mike Sylwester at 8:00 a.m. for the win.
How about just 'suckers, morons, or sheep'?
Or just reduce everyone to what they either have physically or psychologically between their legs.
'Dear pussies and cocks, this is your captain speaking. We're about to hit a mountain, please kiss your asses (which ALL of you have) goodbye.'
Here's an old Art Carney line.
Ralph is teaching Ed Norton to play golf.
Ralph tells him to first address the ball.
Ed steps up, club in hand, and says, 'Hello ball!'
45 years ago I started traveling for business. Most travelers flew dressed in formal business attire.
Contrast that with today, with seeing many people riding public transit in D.C. and elsewhere wearing formal business attire.
Business travel has nothing to do with being classy on the plane and everything to do with the fact that the travelers are going straight from the plane to their meeting and don't have time to change and don't want to lug along a lot of luggage.
Instead, they are to refer to passengers as "Dick" and Dickless"
Ladies and germs. Funny I was just thinking about that last night. Somehow the comedian, Norm Crosby, came up in conversation. I was thinking ladies and germs was his creation. I always like Uncle Milty when I was a kid. Rumor was he had the biggest um, organ in Hollywood. Heh! The trivia the mind holds on to!
"There’s something sad about this to me. It’s like a casual Friday for language, only it’s not just on Friday. I rather liked being thought of as a gentleman. Yes, I’d think whenever I heard it, I believe I’m up for this."
My thoughts as well. What's wrong with using a name that calls one to "dress up" one's behavior. Gentleman is much more about how one acts than how one dresses. Historically, dress was a way of signifying one's status. That part has fallen away in modern times.
From Yes, Prime Minister:
[Hacker directs Sir Humphrey to negotiate with a radical MP named Agnes Morehouse:]
[Hacker:] Can't you come to a sort of gentleman's agreement?
[SH:] But she's not a gentleman! She's not even a lady!
I'm still annoyed that they stopped calling us "passengers" and started calling us "customers"
Otoh, could this be a cause of so much strife on planes?
Passenger implies a more or less co-equal partner relation.
Customer implies a superior /subordinate relation with the customer superior. We are paying for the service.
And flight crew want to be superior leading to friction.
John Henry
Travelers don't want "everyone" confined with them in a cramped space without an exit. Travelers want only those who will behave properly, to minimize the stress and wear and tear of travel.
The parable of the wedding guests is appropriate here. Matthew 22:1-14 has one version and Luke 14:16-24 another. Gathering everyone and then eliminating the unworthy, and righteously eliminating from participation those who won't accept your invitation, are both great business models for getting only enthusiastic participants. I think starting out with "Hello, everyone!" will result in some of those present requiring removal from the plane for misbehavior.
Yo, bitches!
Old Sergeant Williams--a chubby little Cajun--used to address us JROTC cadets as "jennemens."
"Futurama" wasn't imaginative enough, using only the three speciesist terms.
For the time being, France is sticking with "Mesdames et Messieurs," in spite of the difficulty spelling it correctly.
"Slatterns and Slovens"
Of course, few would know the definition of slattern as an untidy woman or sloven as an untidy man.
The shorter word for an untidy woman would provoke even more
"Sluts are good enough to make a sloven's porridge."
--Old Proverb.
fellow earthlings? airlings?
fellow aerie faeries >>>
since announcement is while air-borne
As I stare down potentially troublesome cells real ladies get, sorry if I sound a bit snippy (I would say strident, but snippy is situationally more expressive) about all the male circumcision whining and trans pissy-ness. No, not sorry. Women are women: men are men. Barring a very few unfortunate birth defects, everyone else is either male, female, insane, or just a self-amputee.
For the lefties among us, how about reserving medical treatment for people who are actually sick?
I'd also say "screw planes," but I don't want to start a whole nother thing.
When will politicians in the U.S. Senate and House or Representatives stop addressing each other as the gentle lady from X and the gentleman from Y.? And, when and if they stop, how should they address each other? That would be fun to watch as they try to figure out the preferred pronoun for each other. Maybe, they’ll pass a law legislating a variety of correct pronouns that won’t offend anyone in D.C.
Oye! Listen up!
- Roy Kent version
My favorite Milton Berle moment was his confrontation with Richard Pryor. Berle thought so highly of himself, and Pryor punctured his balloon.
We all know men no longer rate recognition.
Just go with Jerry Lewis.
My favorite Milton Berle moment was his confrontation with Richard Pryor. Berle thought so highly of himself, and Pryor punctured his balloon.
Maybe Berle was with Pryor laughing. But I guess I fail to see the humor in killing an innocent child.
I have a paperback edition of the Miss Manners guidebook to "excruciatingly correct" behavior around somewhere. I think I had to buy it secondhand. Used to love reading her columns.
My all-time favorite Miss Manners column was the one where she displayed abysmal ignorance of the Catholic Mass. I remember my jaw dropping when I read it when it was first published in the newspaper. I suppose there was no reason she should know any better, but she made a highly amusing leap of mistaken fact.
The submitted question she was addressing related to a disagreement about whether the prospective stepchildren should participate in the "bringing up of the gifts." The appalled MM read the question as evidencing some incredibly vulgar and astonishing practice of displaying wedding gifts in the middle of the marriage ceremony. It was, of course, instead a reference to the part of the Mass that, in my altar boy days, was called the "Offertory," i.e., the bringing out of the bread (or, rather, those nasty wafery things) and wine to be ultimately consecrated (or, if you prefer, transubstantiated) and used in the communion portion of the Mass. She sheepishly provided a correction a few days later.
--gpm
https://www.city-journal.org/men-or-boys-reflections-on-a-vanishing-ideal
https://www.city-journal.org/men-or-boys-reflections-on-a-vanishing-ideal
I bought the MM guidebook to try to make sure I was properly doing the engraved invitations to my 50th birthday party, which of course made no reference to a birthday and instead simply asked for the pleasure of the recipients' company for light refreshments at the Harvard Club located at the borderline between the Back Bay and the Fenway, the latter having been my home for 25 years (I looked into the Gardner Museum but, alas, they didn't do private parties, only corporate events). And of course no vulgar response cards; do the RSVP the right way! (OK, I just convinced myself in the semi-colon discussion thread the other day that an exclamation point invalidates a prior semi-colon, but there you go.)
By chance, and astoundingly to many of the rest of the guests, I happened to be acquainted at the time with a number of beautiful, charming, young (FWIW, mostly blonde) ladies who graced what turned out to be a quite elegant event. Also bought my first and only tuxedo for the event. There was a big snowstorm that day that cut down on the attendance and made my mile-long walk to the Harvard Club in patent leather shoes a bit problematic, but I still managed to entertain a hundred or so guests. Unfortunately, that was in the very early stage of smart phones, I didn't plan ahead, and there are only one or two photos from the event.
My only prior birthday bash was a much smaller, more informal, and drunken one for my 30th birthday. That one was inspired, in part, by the old sixties slogan of not trusting anyone over the age of thirty. There was a near crisis when, due to no fault of our own, we got rear-ended right in front of the Back Bay police station, but it all played out OK.
That party was at the Averof in Porter Square in Cambridge, a now long-gone Greek restaurant featuring the incomparable belly dancer Salisa(sp?), who was, if I recall correctly, actually Sicilian. The Averof got a "Best Bar" award from Boston Magazine back in 1984, a year after my party. Not from that event, but I have a great picture or two that someone later took of me with Salisa.
We used to have our firm softball banquets at the Averof back in the early 80s. There was a 70ish partner who had been a founding member of the softball league and was still playing, with some accommodations. He was the pitcher, but I was able to break into the rotation. He and Salisa were quite chummy.
Per my original plans back in 1983, I will probably be curled up in the corner at home for my seventieth birthday in two years or so.
--gpm
"Welcome to Flight 329 Ladies, Gentlemen, Superqueers, Gxrls, Sweekgenders, Foxkin, Cobblogenders, Venufluids, Juxeras, Khaniths, Ambonecs, Dimitortes, Incligenders, Proxvirs, Mingenders, Qirls, Soy Boys, Bxys, Demigirls, Ktulugenders, Muxes, Neutrois's, Qariwarmis, Diastasis, etcetcetc, please prepare for arrival."
"Neutrois's"?? What makes them so special?
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