"... I am extremely confident: They won’t find anything. The massive fraud that former president Donald Trump claims tarnished the 2020 election has been and will remain illusory — because it didn’t exist.
But audits, I believe, can be the friend of sanity, helping everyone in the political process, especially the Republicans who understand that convincing their voters that elections are hopelessly rigged is no way to win elections.... If the audits that Trump himself has demanded keep coming up empty, maybe, just maybe, some true believers in Trump’s falsehood will recognize he’s been feeding them snake oil.... Something has to change, and the key to that change is to convince some portion of the 30 percent that Trump has failed to deliver on his bombast. Trump is hoisting himself on his petard. Let him."
I've read some of the comments over there, and the most common notion seems to be that it's no use producing evidence because Republicans won't believe it or will just interpret it to mean what they want it to mean.
পোস্টগুলি
১৭৯টি মন্তব্য:
Ginsburg apparently didn’t read the AZ audit report. There were real problems with thousands of ballots.
If you're counting something (say, ballots); and i slip 20,000 fakes into the pile...
If you count it again (and again (and again)); your numbers won't change,
no matter HOW MANY times you count it.. on account of because YOU'RE STILL COUNTING THE FAKES!
remember how "we" decided that we didn't "need" to check signatures? or addresses? or registry?
Now that those unsigned, unaddressed, unregistered ballots are mixed in...
They say, Go ahead and recount! we don't mind!
Some people, the best people, the right thinking, sophisticated and nuanced people, still think the 2000 Florida recount was hopelessly corrupt, rigged, illegal and that George W. Bush was Selected, NOT Elected!!!. Al Gore forever!
So... good luck.
How can Ginsberg claim that no massive fraud exists without having the full audit results from the six states, at least? That said, I hope his audit encouragement works. It’s pretty clear to those of us who have seen a few presidential elections that this last one was an outlier.
Basically a recount is just a validation of the rigged votes that got into the system. That's why Democrats want to stop at recounts and call it good. The AZ audit showed that they *counted* the ballots mostly correctly, though a lot of data was deliberately deleted on that score, so who really knows. But it also showed that there were a lot of votes counted that should not have been counted, which is why you are seeing hit pieces claiming that the whole concept of "illegal votes" is racist.
But yeah, bring on the audits, so that we can move the discussion past after the fact recounts, which only serve to validate the shenanigans.
The PA recount should also look into why one of the members of the PA Supreme Court has a mobbed up brother who went to prison for ballot stuffing, and that many of the judges making decisions that ensured that there didn't need to be any scrutineers from the Republicans at polling sites were elected by mobbed up ballot stuffers in Philadelphia. Here, read the sad tale:
https://thefederalist.com/2020/11/06/american-hustle-party-insiders-tell-the-true-story-of-how-philadelphia-elections-work/
Oddly, the same DuckDuckGo search I previously used to find the above article now fails to return it, but I found it on Google. Anyway, people went to jail, this isn't q-anon stuff. I will say it again, all a recount does is validate the corruption, which is why the media focuses on recounts.
Weren't votes “coming in” a week after Election Day?
As Traficant used to say… “beam me up Scotty.”
A few odds and ends.
In CO - they want to ban the audit.
Why?
Also - If the fraud is hidden and erased - yeah - bring on the audits!
It's fraud all the way down holding up Trumpworld. Keep sending money.
You cannot convince people from leaving their cult by presenting calm facts.
This post seems to be a perfect demonstration.
Somehow people will blame this on Chuck as well.
When Twitter and Facebook banned any suggestion that mail in voting was not impervious to fraud, we were sent to a page that assured us that there would be scrutineers at the polls (false) and that signatures on mail in votes would be verified (false) so basically the links from Big Tech themselves would fail any disinterested fact check and would have been tagged themselves as disinformation by any impartial body.
People spontaneously chant “Fuck Joe Biden “ for the guy who got a record 81 million votes. Yeah, it was a fair election.
Ginsberg is an old Bush guy, so of course he's going to take shots at Trump, but he's obviously right that the audits should proceed. That's always the way it's worked before, and for the left and the press to have flip-flopped in 2020 and declared that it's critically important not to examine the results just screams out bad intent. Let the sun shine in.
Standard anti-Trump WaPo scribbler wrote If the audits that Trump himself has demanded ...[Trump's] been feeding them snake oil....
That doesn't make any sense because snake-oil salesmen don't want audits and tests.
“Dear Ben,
Of course I understand what you are suggesting. You’re right, on the substance of anything that operates as a real, true, serious recount. But do you know what the Trumpists claim that an “audit” is? I don’t. I don’t think any of them do either.
You’re a good man, Ben, and you’ve had a glorious career on the Republican side of election law battles. And you’ve forgotten more about election law than any of the Trumpists will ever know. But you don’t seem to adequately understand the psychological issue: the Trumpists will never recognize that Joe Biden won a fair and clear election, because Donald Trump will never admit that he lost a fair and clear election. And Trump will never admit it, because he is a sociopath who is incapable of admitting such a defeat.
I’d like to agree with you, Ben, but that is why I cannot.
Best wishes to you as you settle into retirement,
Chuck “
All I would need is someone to explain how and why the election counting was shut down around the same time in Milwaukee, Atlanta, Philadelphia, Detroit. And people were told to go home. Election counters were all sent home. Except for a handful. And, at that time, Donald Trump held a massive lead in Wisconsin, Michigan, Georgia, and Pennsylvania. Massive. Larger than can typically be erased on a normal timeline. Then, while the counting was supposedly stopped, the tabulations changed. At precise moments in each state, the vote counts jump straight up for Biden, by the thousands. Just enough to give Biden the lead in each of these states. Then the remaining votes counted came in at precise ratios of Biden to Trump voters to keep that lead, that ratio repeated in these states.
Why were the polling places 'closed', but not closed? Why were some still counting, but with a smaller, 'special' staff- with no observers at all? We have all seen the videos of the Atlanta election center where the remaining staff started pulling out buckets of ballots from under tables and running them through the counters. Multiple times.
I've yet to hear any proper explanation for any of this Any of it. I'd be fine if someone could actually explain how this was not a steal. No one has. Instead they pompously overuse the word 'debunked' and move on. Nothing has been debunked. And my gut tells me that if they had a rational, truthful explanation, this should have been easy and quick to explain.
But it has never been explained. So...we keep getting 'the story' from people who have spent decades lying to us. We've gone along with the lies for years. I'm kinda done with giving approving nods to any career politicos. I'm done with the lot of them. They've spoiled this system. Destroyed it's integrity. It cannot be found again while half or more of this country vies for no voter IDs, massive ballot mailings, and legal ballot harvesting. The only purpose of those things are to cheat. Period. From these people, I'm going to accept that the 2020 election was just fine and pay no attention to that man behind the curtain?
I'm not accepting that.
I glee these people have for reportedly giving the most votes ever to the worst President ever. We aren’t even through one year of this perverse administration.
Projection is a terrible thing.
I thought it likely that the amount of election fraud was not any greater this time, just the usual, mostly by urban Democrats. I did think there were interesting bits this time which suggested something more thoroughgoing, but as the evidence came out, time after time it turned out to be crap. One of the states that were controversial may still show out to have been stolen, or at least compromised, but at this point too many have come up empty for me to bother anymore.
It is not that the evidence for the defense, that the elections were all aboveboard, is so great, but that the evidence for the prosecution, the accusations of fraud, contain so much bad reasoning and mere suspiciousness with ominous music playing in the background. Of particular note is the complete focus on Type I errors without the merest interest in Type II - always a bad sign. If my town's ballots were all tossed because someone thought a few looked suspicious and refused to be convinced otherwise, that would be a grave offense against my voting rights. Apparently people are so sure that anything suspicious must automatically be a fraudulent Biden vote that they fail to consider that.
Every investigation so far has identified significant numbers of problematic "voters", enough to potentially make up the difference in the close states. And in some states, significant occurrences of not following the proper processes with handling of ballots. Possible to say for sure if fraud occurred, since there is no way to match ballots with individuals, but it's very possible. And considering the payoff, highly likely.
Republicans won't believe it or will just interpret it to mean what they want it to mean.
This statement brought to you by the party of “men can menstruate too”.
And if audits do turn up discrepancies, will Ben Ginsberg or Ann Althouse or any Democrat accept the report?
Yet, 4 years after it was claimed Donald Trump "stole" the election from Hillary Clinton in 2016, the 2020 election is supposed to be the cleanest election ever run. Last time I saw Joe Biden claim the 2016 election was stolen was in 2019 (post Mueller report) and Hillary Clinton in 2020.
So we have both major parties was time on litigating the past instead of fixing the problem.
Remember when Giuliani got disbarred without a hearing, for talking about election irregularities and now he is barred from appearing on cable news? Well, Fox News has an official ban, the other outlets don't need one. It sure gives me confidence in my democracy.
Also remember when they raided Giuliani's house and took all of his computers and phones? A cynical person might surmise that they did that to find out what he had on Joe Biden, but we all know that the Emperor's new suit of clothes is first rate stuff.
It's depressing. We may as well have an absolute king.
The election is built to be unauditable. It gives a voice to the criminal class.
Recounts are vote laundering.
no way, no how Biden got 15-20% more votes than Captain Zero. End of story
“ In CO - they want to ban the audit.
“Why?”
Ever wonder why states that go full mail in balloting, veer sharply to the left thereafter? Of course, we all know the answers. As a Colorado native, I bemoan what has happened politically to that state. But then, natives and long term residents of WA probably feel the same.
IMO, the fraud is the corporate media and Federal government creating false narratives, and not the actual vote counting.
I’ve been reflecting for for a few minutes on what Ben Ginsberg thinks the most pressing electoral “problem” is. And someone can correct me if they read Ginsberg differently, but I’m satisfied that “the problem” for Ben is that with the constant recirculation of false and unprovable “stolen election” conspiracy theories, it will be Republican (or at least “pro-Trump”) voters who will become demoralized, disinterested and eventually will fail to turn out in elections, resulting in disproportionate Republican electoral losses.
That’s a problem for Ben because he is a loyal, activist Republican.
As I have been.
But I see it slightly differently, in that my thinking is that the one thing to kill off Trumpism in the Republican Party, is about a decade of regular and repeated poundings of Trump-wing Republicans. “Evidence” and “facts” have no bearing on the Trumpists. Donald Trump will always spin any kind of fact-free narrative that suits him at the moment.
Popular defeats, however, are different. The great myth of Trump is that he is a winner. And that Trumpism is a winning operation. If Ben Ginsberg is right — and he usually is — the perpetuation of the Big Lie from Trump will eventually corrode Republican voting more widely. Resulting in Republican losses.
The author is both right and wrong. He is wrong that audits of the 2020 election will convince anyone of anything. As rhhardin points out above, our election system is unauditable, and basically by design.
But the author is right that it is a big problem that whichever side loses believes it was due do fraud is a problem for both sides . The most important thing in a democracy is that the loser believe they lost honestly and we don't have that. Something like 40% of Democrats believed Hillary actually won in 2016. It's not just a 2020 Trump supporter thing.
“We’re in a situation where we have put together, and you guys did it for our administration…President Obama’s administration before this. We have put together, I think, the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of American politics” - Joe Biden, October 24, 2020.
Joe told us that the Dems were going to steal the election before the polls closed. Why won't you believe him, Howard & Chuck?
Trump is hoisting himself on his petard. Let him.
I literally watched Ben Ginsberg sitting on his petard election night 2012 at the rear of the Boston Garden floor where the Romney Campaign's ridiculous "Orca" operation was located.
Even if he believed Romney was losing you'd think Ginsberg would be on the phone, talking to people, etc. Nope, just sitting there. Whatever his knowledge of election law, my impression of the guy went into the toilet that night.
Ginsberg and Romney deserved each other. Two lessons in wimp-toastery.
For those unable to grasp how a pathetically unfit-for-office Joe Biden got more votes than anyone in history, think of it this way: Joe Biden got almost no votes. His own, his corrupt family, a few million die-hard idiots who will literally vote for anyone with a D next to their name, sure. But a record? No, Biden was merely the lucky recipient of a record number of “anyone but Trump” votes.
I have no doubt there was more fraud than the system will admit to, but explaining “President Biden” does not require that fraud determine the election. Trump hatred is enough to explain the motivation of a record number of Biden voters.
Wow, the comments here are spectacular. Like a Wikipedia page of “all the batshit crazy theories as to how the 2020 election was purportedly stolen.” And the real richness comes when people who consider themselves intelligent and informed, and who are able to assemble a cogent paragraph, do these extended arguments as to how it was just impossible for Joe Biden to have won the 2020 election.
Thank you, Althouse, for this blog post and this comments page.
Temujin @ 7:36. + Tim in Vermont.
shut up, our betters explained.
Bruce - yeah- CO is now East CA. With the horrid traffic, pollution, trash, meth vagrants, and everything. and Boulder-progressive neo-fascists run our statehouse.
A once free western state - ruined.
“Ginsburg apparently didn’t read the AZ audit report. There were real problems with thousands of ballots.”
It wasn’t just thousands, but hundreds of thousands of votes, if you add the results of the audit (so far) and the canvas together. And it is highly likely that most of the issues cut in favor of Biden and Kelly. There continue to be rumors that the auditors were threatened into not releasing much of the incriminating details (my guess, by the Biden/Garland DOJ). But they have much of it. There are rumors of stacks of Biden/Kelly ballots printed on non conforming paper, with the ballot ovals having been filled out by computer. All that it probably would have taken for Trump and McSally to have won, would have been the enforcement of the election laws by the election officials and the Sec of State, but they were up to their eyeballs in the fraud. If ballots lacked provenance, if they lacked signature verification, or a valid chain of custody, inc, it was illegal to count them. But they were included in batches, where they couldn’t be separated later, and counted anyway.
My guess is that it is going to be much harder next time for the Dems to steal elections in AZ. The state, and very likely Maricopa county, are Republican enough that substantial measures can be taken to guard against the sorts of fraud (and fraud enablement by state and local election officials) to prevent a repeat, at least at nearly the levels shown already. This may also apply in GA, though the Dems probably have enough control over the Atlanta area to make cleaning it up difficult. But I have far less hope for the biggest ones: PA and MI. The political machines in Detroit and Philadelphia are far more entrenched, and the Republicans only have some control in those states, with the connivance of LLRs like Chuck, who seem fine with Democrats stealing elections. The only way this sort of election fraud is going to be curtailed, is through tighter laws and prison terms for the higher level conspirators, and that is unlikely to happen in those states.
Blogger RoseAnne said...
Yet, 4 years after it was claimed Donald Trump "stole" the election from Hillary Clinton in 2016, the 2020 election is supposed to be the cleanest election ever run. Last time I saw Joe Biden claim the 2016 election was stolen was in 2019 (post Mueller report) and Hillary Clinton in 2020.
Hillary Clinton conceded her election defeat to Donald Trump on election night, 2020. That election was a CLOSER contest than 2020.
Mrs. Clinton then attended the Trump inauguration. There were no crazy lawsuits or insane conspiracy theories. Mrs. Clinton has talked about her disappointment at the Russian interference in the 2016 campaign, and her complaints have been largely substantiated by every branch of U.S. intelligence and foreign service agencies.
Republicans won't believe it or will just interpret it to mean what they want it to mean.
Russian Collusion.
Hunter's Laptop.
Republican poll observers locked out of counting stations.
Millions of votes appearing after midnight on November 4th.
Censorship by all major media and corporations.
Democrats are just lying shitty people. The Joe Biden Regime is destroying the country on purpose. Notice none of these lying shitty people defend what the Biden Regime is actually doing.
Except Howard. And his inebriated posts are really just for entertainment right now.
Bruce Hayden said...
Ever wonder why states that go full mail in balloting, veer sharply to the left thereafter? Of course, we all know the answers. As a Colorado native, I bemoan what has happened politically to that state. But then, natives and long term residents of WA probably feel the same.
Paper ballots, purple thumbs, voter ID and no illegals voting and the democrats don't win a single state.
“I thought it likely that the amount of election fraud was not any greater this time, just the usual, mostly by urban Democrats. I did think there were interesting bits this time which suggested something more thoroughgoing, but as the evidence came out, time after time it turned out to be crap. One of the states that were controversial may still show out to have been stolen, or at least compromised, but at this point too many have come up empty for me to bother anymore.”
Except that the ballots in those counties in PA, MI, WI, and GA have not been audited. Just maybe the same stacks of ballots run through machines again. There was never any investigation into the provenance of the ballots being counted. None. Zero. Zip. Nada. And that is the accusation, that the major fraud was in the front end, in illegal ballots being counted, and legal ballots not being counted. This was prevented by the Democrats, esp at the county level, who don’t want their fraud disclosed.
Temujin said...All I would need is someone to explain how and why the election counting was shut down around the same time in Milwaukee, Atlanta, Philadelphia, Detroit.
Highly suspicious, and you’re right. We’ve never been given an adequate explanation for it. But its persistence despite widespread public knowledge of what happened is strong, if only suggestive, evidence there is a legitimate explanation, even if I don’t know it. It’s simply not plausible that the steal could be so public and yet all the thousands of people in official positions with an interest in the election going the other way did not cry foul despite the opportunity early on, before Biden’s win had solidified, to do so. There are far too many people in the system with too many competing interests for all of them to be lockstep with a steal of the presidential election.
My position has been and continues to be the last election is over, and it would be important to know what happened. My speculation is that the Dems used rule changes in targeted jurisdictions to eliminate election controls and, assisted by tech companies, flooded "harvested" votes from all sorts of people on the voter registration rolls, including the dead and vestigial, who would not have voted in a normal election. I suppose that Mollie Hemingway's new book goes through the whole sorry story.
I am amazed that Trump didn't have his own vote harvesting operation after seeing all those Dem congressmen and women elected well after the polls closed in 2018. It shows his essential political amateurishness. His wild accusations reflect his chagrin at losing an election that he could have easily won. And then he flailed his way to GOP defeat in the two Georgia Senate elections. I can see why McConnell is angry with him, and his lashing out at McConnell and Gov. Kemp is not a winning move.
Politics is about addition. Trump appears to believe that subtraction is an OK move. It is the same mistake that Liz Chaney and Adam Kinzinger are making. It may result in all of them being subtracted.
Blogger exhelodrvr1 said...
Every investigation so far has identified significant numbers of problematic "voters", enough to potentially make up the difference in the close states. And in some states, significant occurrences of not following the proper processes with handling of ballots. Possible to say for sure if fraud occurred, since there is no way to match ballots with individuals, but it's very possible. And considering the payoff, highly likely.
Arguably the best, most detailed, most articulate post-election analysis by any state legislature was the one done by the majority-Republican state senate committee report led by Republican Senator Ed McBroom. Indeed, Ben Ginsberg referenced that report in the column that Althouse linked. The committee found no reason whatsoever to doubt the Michigan results or Joe Biden’s winning of Michigan’s 16 electoral votes.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/619326/
Were you including Michigan in your hilariously wrong comment?
Leftists and RINOs were clever attacking voting machines rather than fake ballots. It was a diversion from the real fraud perpetrated (as always) in major metropolitan areas.
There is no way Joe Biden got 81 million votes.
Was the fraud enough to change the outcome of the election? I have no idea, but I want future elections to limit the fraud that has been occurring in big city districts since the 1960's.
Scott Adams says that a presidential candidate should promise to make all elections auditable. But afaik they are now, if results are close enough.
He also says we should be able to ascertain that our vote was counted. In my two bit state I can check online that the signature envelope was logged into the db (ballot still inside unopened) but you can't do that in calif? Hard to believe.
Whenever is hear brilliant suggestions on about how voting should oughta work I realize people don't know how it works currently.
Don't get me started about these idiot Republicans in Montana who demanded an audit after an election the GOP swept because Trump was on the ticket.That was a brainiac move for sure.
And the idiots in the RW media thought it was something. LOL.
"Don't be afraid of the election audits"
The implications here are that his target audience, Dems and NeverTrump Republicans, oppose audits because they are afraid of what audits will reveal, that they too, in their hearts, have suspicions about the conduct and outcome of the 2020 election.
The further implication is these people don't really care if the election was "rigged" or not, they just want their way, that ultimately they don't respect the institutions of democracy or care about the truth. His appeal is not to their honor, but to reassure them that they will still have their way and that if they look under the bed their won't be a monster hiding there. Yet he disparages suspicious Trump voters as consumers of snake oil, true believers, as though Trump's claims are the only factor in their minds, not the red flags waving everywhere that should cause any fair-minded person to pause an say, wait a minute...
It is irrelevant how many other post election processes this guy has participated in. That's like a coroner saying, I have participated in 30 autopsies and all of those people died of natural causes so based on my past experience it's unlikely the guy currently lying on the slab with holes in his head was a victim of foul play.
I've read some of the comments over there, and the most common notion seems to be that it's no use producing evidence because Republicans won't believe it or will just interpret it to mean what they want it to mean.
Darned Republicans.
You can run the best campaign, you can even become the nominee, and you can have the election stolen from you
Hillary Clinton, May 2019
At the bottom, it's all about faith in elections. Other countries seem to be able to have clean elections with strong success - and the philosophy that works seems to be, 'The Simpler, the Better'. We should not accept an obviously inferior process, by comparison, without demanding improvements.
Is it really that hard to conceive and execute a comprehensive audit? It wouldn't be, if there was the political will to invest in Faith in Elections. But there is not. Both sides obstruct and act in bad faith to tamper with the process in order to put the result in doubt, before conclusions are reached. The Bad Faith speaks volumes about honesty and transparency.
The most disturbing thing about 2020 is the lack of willingness or insistence to perform signature checks on absentee ballots. In every audit, this has been the most hotly disputed ground: did this vote come from a real person?
Chuck is right. Trump did not win Michigan. It wasn't close.
While I believe the last election was no more fraudulent than any other one (that is, not much), I'm uncomfortable with the idea that anyone questioning it is now considered a nut. The system should (as the author of the original article suggests) welcome audits. Democracy depends on the governed having faith in the system. If the system acts like it has something to hide, people are going to think it has something to hide.
As an aside, perhaps the Trump folks would have been more likely to accept the results of the election if official Washington had been willing to accept the results of the 2016 one. Nothing poisons the well better than a 2year long, 20 million dollar investigation designed to cripple a presidency and based on opposition research. That combined with 2 obviously partisan impeachments (a phone call and a speech?) tends to sow resentment and distrust.
Ginsburg is running a three shell pea palmed gaslighting monte game. The clever part is having the WaPo publish it. I hope it works to produce thorough audits.
Ginsberg was with the minnesota recount, where he learned from al franken's gang of pirates, to challenge the votes of joe miller, to keep the gorgon murkowski, the coked up gorgon, who has been a party to every scam the obamas and now shambling man has put forth,
If the primary issue in the 2022 election is the 2020 election the Republicans will lose.
I can’t speak about other places, but Trump lost Georgia because key suburban voters despise him. It is that simple. I live in North Fulton and in my circle of acquaintances I know mostly Republicans. I do not know a single Trump fan. I know people who reluctantly voted for him. I know more who left the top line blank.
Warnock and Ossoff are now Senators because Trump made the key issue in the Senate runoffs the November election.
Trump is doing his best to make the 2022 Georgia elections about his bruised ego. The likely result is that his endorsed candidate, Stacey Abrams, will become governor.
His endorsement of Texas resident, Herschel Walker, will lead to the re-election of Warnock. Hershel’s glory days were 40 years ago. The voters that he needs to attract were barely alive, and if they were, lived in another state.
Tell that to the Maricopa County Board of Supervisors. Actually, it's too late. They already deleted records of the vote.
“We’re in a situation where we have put together, and you guys did it for our administration…President Obama’s administration before this. We have put together, I think, the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of American politics”
Joe Biden, October 24, 2020.
Put me in the impossible to convince camp about the 2020 election. Too many mailed out ballets with horrid ballet control and no chain of custody. A big incentive to cheat with virtually no way to get an accurate audit. The AZ audit indicated there could have been cheating. No way to prove it though.
Just because someone is a R does not impress me. The establishment both D and R wanted Trump gone.
After hitting “Publish Your Comment” at 8:42, I feared that I had made a typo and now I see that I did. Hillary conceded her election loss in a phone call to Trump on election night 2016, and not (obviously) “2020,” as I wrote.
And the following Wednesday morning she did her full concession speech. Again, 2016 and not 2020 as I erroneously typed it.
All that it probably would have taken for Trump and McSally to have won, would have been the enforcement of the election laws by the election officials and the Sec of State, but they were up to their eyeballs in the fraud.
The AZ Secretary of State was funded by George Soros and has described Trump voters as "Nazis." She is now running for Governor.
Interesting observation: to this very day both Althouse leftists Howard and LLR Chuck believe and routinely assert Trump led a violent insurrection to overthrow the US govt.
My assumption is they both needed a replacement for the 5+ years of utterly debunked and collapsed russia collusion hoax lies they pushed at althouse.
Lies that were often "go to's" when their charlottesville "nazis-fine people" and "inject bleach" lies fell flat.
And LLR Chuck is already on record attesting to the supposed historically pristine and above reproach democratical voting "controls" in......detroit!
I have never heard democraticals defend other corrupt democraticals with the endless passion that LLR Chuck does...
In this thread alone LLR Chuck pretends his beloved Hillary and the democraticals did not spend 4 years claiming Trump was an illegitimate president and that Putin literally hacked voting machines to swing the election.
But then again, these are the same folks who told us antifa was just a myth, so, there ya go.
Ginsburg is confident that per rhhardin, the election was conducted to be unauditable, that a combination of mail-in ballot manipulation, vote count shenanigans analog and digital and other cheats, can be confidently dismissed as outlandish conspiracies so long as weapons/nyt/cnn/msnbc repeat it loud enough. These voices of sanity, these adult voices of responsibility, are confident they can other those who struggle with the deep improbability of basement Biden smashing dynamic Obama’s totals, of Biden out-polling voter registration trends where he needed to in order to win, but tracking such trends where the election was more carefully run. These spokesmen for our norms don’t say anything at all about the psephological improbability of 2020 outcome or in fact that we must toss away the book on contemporary American election prediction and analysis and interpretation, since everything we’ve got to date says Biden didn’t, couldn’t have won, even before you start to look into vote and count irregularity.
But it’s not just stupid people easily duped by snake oil salesmen who are convinced he election was far from kosher, and the current PR approach of the norm defenders is just making more people angry and cynical.
Joe Biden is cognitively impaired.
Are you really going to convince me that Joe sat in his basement with a mask over his face while screaming "Black Lives Matter" for an entire Presidential campaign, and then won with more votes than Obama??
No, you're not going to convince me.
walker is imminently sensible, the hamas stooge standin for al sharpton is not, of course thats why kemp bought the dominion machines, but stacey abrams is woman of the year, what fresh hell is this,
"I've read some of the comments over there, and the most common notion seems to be that it's no use producing evidence because Republicans won't believe it or will just interpret it to mean what they want it to mean."
I think the problem is the opposite; no matter what the audits show the media will declare them proof that the election was pure as the driven snow. Hell, they were declaring the election clean two days after it was over; well before anyone could know either way.
Besides the tens-of-thousands of problematic ballots in Arizona, here's what I really think is noteworthy and, as far as I know, has remained uncommented upon in the media.
"Files were missing from the Election Management System (EMS) Server.
Logs appeared to be intentionally rolled over, and all the data in the database related to the 2020 General Election had been fully cleared."
Erased logs are highly suspicious but, as with Hillary Clinton's server, there are no repercussions for destroying evidence.
Arizona did an audit that found almost 60,000 improper ballots in the one fucked up county, Maricopa. It wasn’t easy. Democrats hid data deleted data and refused to supply documents under subpoena: call it the Clinton Protocol. Even in the face of resistance and a progressive media willing to spin the story as “nothing to see here move along” while shouting “You can’t overturn an election!” And that’s true but avoids the point of auditing, which the guy in the teaser to this post is pretending to support. I don’t believe him. If his “sure let’s count the votes!” attitude was legit we would have the same media consortium that took SEVEN MONTHS in 2000 to publicly audit the Florida ballots.
But we don’t. Then the media actually helped democracy by their enthusiastic participation in the statewide recount. They thought they’d prove Gore won but had enough integrity to report the sordid truth that Bush’s win was real. Why can’t they do so now? Nationwide mail-in ballots are much more likely to be fraudulently used than the famous Broward Butterfly Ballots yet there’s absolutely zero journalistic curiosity about validating the 2020, and it’s 100% due to their slogan adopted when they resolved to purge Trump from our Civic Life: DEMOCRACY DIES IN DARKNESS.
Which is why I don’t believe the guy quoted by Althouse. He will do his best to avoid finding the truth. He wants the sins of 2020 to remain in the darkness lest Americans learn how tenuous our tether to our basic freedoms is. California just enacted all mail voting to ensure Democrat cheating can continue unabated. My vote barely meant anything before. Now an army of lawbreaking progressives have three weeks to find enough countervailing votes every cycle to make sure my choices never prevail. So fuck this guy and his phony audit bullshit. I’ll believe they really want to COUNT EVERY VOTE when they actually and publicly do it.
As an aside, perhaps the Trump folks would have been more likely to accept the results of the election if official Washington had been willing to accept the results of the 2016 one. Nothing poisons the well better than a 2year long, 20 million dollar investigation designed to cripple a presidency and based on opposition research. That combined with 2 obviously partisan impeachments (a phone call and a speech?) tends to sow resentment and distrust.
Bing bing bing bing!
Part of the reason for the anger in 2020 was the fact that we spent four years watching the entire establishment burn down every last scrap of institutional trust in order to get Trump. It not only created a lot of anger, it set the tone that these folks were willing to do anything to remove him from office.
AMDG: "I can’t speak about other places, but Trump lost Georgia because key suburban voters despise him. It is that simple. I live in North Fulton and in my circle of acquaintances I know mostly Republicans. I do not know a single Trump fan. I know people who reluctantly voted for him. I know more who left the top line blank."
You and those like you are therefore absolutely fine with policies that the democraticals are pushing across the board.
We live in a politically binary world. If you are a nominal republican but vote 3rd party or dont vote for the "R" at the top, you are an operational democratical.
Period.
These squishy lies you tell yourself to make yourself better about supposed "R"'s acting as handmaidens for the dems are a joke.
But you do you.
Maybe with the correct Right-Think you can continue to feel comfortable at your dinner parties with your operational democratical amigos...just dont spend too much time pondering the open borders, ChiCom suckuppery, CRT-marxism in schools, continued weaponization of the govt against political opponents, socialist economic policies being implemented, etc.
Better to just belly back up to the jumbo shrimp bar and proudly assert you arent one of those "deplorables" so everyone keeps "liking" you.
Not an original thought but there are a lot of people who would cheat if they could get away with it (never be caught) so as to favor their preferred candidate. "we" changed the rules to make it much, much easier to commit low-risk cheating at the front end. And now that we want to change the rules to make it much harder to cheat, the progressives scream bloody murder. Draw your own conclusions as to who wants a clean and fair election.
Michael K: "Tell that to the Maricopa County Board of Supervisors. Actually, it's too late. They already deleted records of the vote."
Indeed. And the AZ McCain machine helped the dems every step of the way.
The election was corrupted by corporate media, big tech and the deep state bad actors. The lies about Trump continued through the campaign and the truth about Biden’s corruption and his limited mental capacity never surfaced because those in charge suppressed it. The Trump/ Russia hoax was created by the Democrats, Clinton campaign, FBI, media et al., as we are now finding out with Durham’s investigation. People are being indicted and subpoenaed but this news is hardly heard or seen in the media. Trump could not get his message out when Twitter, FB silenced him and the corporate media continued to prop up senile Joe Biden. What a travesty! We are now stuck with a “president” who is trying to transform this country into a socialist state. The American people did not have access to the truth because the ruling class decided who should win the election. The media finally got revenge when they silenced Trump’s message and “the swamp” in D.C. did all they could to vilify Trump since they did not want an outsider exposing how the whole crooked system operates. I hope that justice is finally done and everyone involved in the scheme to destroy Trump is charged with crimes. Voter suppression did not happen against democrats at the ballot box, it happened when the truth was suppressed from all the American voters.
I'm willing to give that the 2020 was legitimate and Biden recieved the most votes for President of the US in history.
That, of course, makes the collapse of Biden's polling numbers the greatest bonfire of goodwill in modern history. The puts him on a Nixonian level of political disaster.
Mrs. Clinton then attended the Trump inauguration. There were no crazy lawsuits or insane conspiracy theories.
She was still claiming Russian interference last year Chuck. The Russian hoax was the hugest election conspiracy theory ever injected into a race. WTF is wrong with you. Why are you so afraid of the truth? You and Ginsberg are the kind of “republicans” that will spin any results as “bad for Trump” because getting the bad orange man is still more important than the facts or the truth or saving our Republic from the crazy socialists.
No use producing the evidence, the jury will just disregard it or not understand it.
The smug, self-righteousness that permeates the elite left annoys me, particularly because they are so patently stupid.
Those flat earth Trump supporters (75 million) can't fathom a fair election or that Hunter's laptop was Russian disinformation.
It's very hard to "prove" election fraud. Recounting the same ballots will yield more or less the same results. A forensic audit could provide signs of possible fraud. It could even discount a few obvious fraudulent ballots. But it won't be able to establish which votes are valid and which are invalid on a larger scale to provide an accurate final count.
The situation is complicated by President Trump's claim that he won a landslide popular vote victory and that millions of Biden votes were fraudulent. Trump didn't win a majority in 2016, and with COVID he was unlikely to have won a majority in 2020. Republicans have had a hard time winning a majority or even a plurality of the vote in recent decades, and he pandemic and shutdowns made it even harder.
I have to admit that Biden probably received more popular votes than Trump. The question is whether there was cheating concentrated in a handful of states that gave Biden a victory in the electoral college. There's a feeling, though, that the election was a repudiation of Trump, whatever the shenanigans in five states. Trump pushed back against that feeling by arguing that he was the true popular vote winner. But other people, like Ginsburg perhaps, give into the feeling and assume that the case is closed and not open to revisions.
Haha, Drago.
Trump lost. Trump lost, and he’s not going back to the White House. There’s absolutely nothing you can do about it. The more that you protest, the more we’ll rub it in. The more you argue, the more that we will laugh at you. Your howling on this subject only makes me happy. Every line of this argument underscores what a loser Trump is.
I expect this comment will prompt a dozen more from you. Keep ‘em coming, sport.
Blogger Drago said...
AMDG: "I can’t speak about other places, but Trump lost Georgia because key suburban voters despise him. It is that simple. I live in North Fulton and in my circle of acquaintances I know mostly Republicans. I do not know a single Trump fan. I know people who reluctantly voted for him. I know more who left the top line blank."
You and those like you are therefore absolutely fine with policies that the democraticals are pushing across the board.
We live in a politically binary world. If you are a nominal republican but vote 3rd party or dont vote for the "R" at the top, you are an operational democratical.
1. I made an observation. Whatever the reason Trump alienated enough voters to prevent him from winning.
2. I absolutely abhor the policies of the Democrats which is why I am so worried about the 2020 election becoming the issue in 2022 and 2024. All Republican efforts should be highlighting what the Democrats have done and will do. That will win. Salving Trump’s wounded ego will result in a Democrat victory.
3. Based on your binary world do you label the Trump voters that stayed home for the Senate runoff allowing control to flip to the Democrats as “operational Democrats”?
4. Based on your binary world do you label one Donald J. Trump as an “operational Democrat” for endorsing Stacey Abrams over Brian Kemp?
If you’re from Philadelphia, though, you know his name, and knew it well before 2013. He’s important to the country now because he’s currently under indictment for bribing a state elections judge to stuff ballots for Democratic candidates. Among the candidates he was paid to get elected are three as-yet-unnamed judges sitting on the Philadelphia Common Pleas Court. That’s where President Donald Trump’s reelection campaign has to go when local election officials refuse to let campaign monitors oversee ballot integrity, as has been the case these past few days The Federalist
It's all fine. Nothing to see here. Cleanest election ever!
Ceciliahere: "We are now stuck with a “president” who is trying to transform this country into a socialist state."
Its okay. AMDG feels better at dinner parties now.
Mike; the FBI, the CIA, the NSA, the State Department... are all 100% assured that there was Russian interference in the 2016 election.
What is it about that, that you don’t get?
Hillary conceded her election loss in a phone call to Trump on election night 2016, and not (obviously) “2020,” as I wrote.
As I recall, she was too drunk and one of her minions conceded. She finally conceded the next day.
In the end, Clinton never made it to the stage with her granddaughter. Thousands streamed out of the Javits center in tears, many of them women and girls.
America had chosen to build a different future.
On Wednesday, Clinton appeared instead at the New Yorker hotel and addressed female supporters directly in a concession speech in which she called on Americans to accept the US election result.
AMDG: "4. Based on your binary world do you label one Donald J. Trump as an “operational Democrat” for endorsing Stacey Abrams over Brian Kemp?"
Trump was being jocular as everone who actually watched the video knows.
You are veering into LLR Chuck territory now.
AMDG: "2. I absolutely abhor the policies of the Democrats which is why I am so worried about the 2020 election becoming the issue in 2022 and 2024. All Republican efforts should be highlighting what the Democrats have done and will do."
Then why dont you?
You dont because you would rather spend ALL your time talking about Trump.
LLR Chuck has a new bestest buddy. Sorry Howard, you've been relegated but with hard work you might be able to claw your way back to "the bigs".
AMDG: "3. Based on your binary world do you label the Trump voters that stayed home for the Senate runoff allowing control to flip to the Democrats as “operational Democrats”?"
Raffensberger and Kemp have demonstrated conclusively their incompetence married to corruption. Raffensberger and his staff in particular were active participants in the Trump phone call hoax (proven when the transcript was released) and in allowing and defending all the voting shenanigans.
There isnt anyone who voted for Trump who didnt see all that went on with those 2.
Explain to us again how a mythical burst water pipe in Atlanta led to the kicking out of republican poll watchers with only democrats remaining in place to restart counting why this mythical burst water pipe occur at precisely the same time vote counting was "halted" (not really) in PA, MI, WI, and.....Maricopa AZ?
Raffensberger and Kemp are solely responsible for the Senate outcome in GA..and I am surmising that was precisely the outcome they were looking for.
And you arent the only one with many years in the Atlanta area. I was there as well for a long time and I have a real connection with people on the ground across the state, and in particular the entire northern Atlanta perimeter and into downtown.
The greatest fiction in the last 50 years is that Joe Biden received over 81 million votes. Simply not possible.
Chuck. You don't know what those clown colleges really think. What is true is that they try to assure the rest of us.
Chuck,
Hillary Clinton conceded her election defeat to Donald Trump on election night, 2020. That election was a CLOSER contest than 2020.
Mrs. Clinton then attended the Trump inauguration. There were no crazy lawsuits or insane conspiracy theories. Mrs. Clinton has talked about her disappointment at the Russian interference in the 2016 campaign, and her complaints have been largely substantiated by every branch of U.S. intelligence and foreign service agencies.
Since you have corrected your errors about when Hillary Clinton conceded the election, I will only say that it is irrelevant to my previous point.
As to your claim in the second paragraph...
One thing Clinton did better than Trump was get the federal government to pay for investigating the issue instead of using donations. The Mueller investigation took 2 years and 30 million dollars and came up with no proof of Russians doing anything more than buying some ads. Various governments, including the US, do that all the time. See Obama Administration's actions relative to the Israel election, for example.
In January 2017, Rep. Jamie Rashkin, later Democratic House impeachment manager, attempted to get the results of Florida's election nullified in an attempt to postpone the certification vote for Trump's 2016 win. Certainly a form of litigation and just one example.
Chuck,
You seem pretty passionate and confident about this stuff. I'm interested in some feedback here.
Please respond to Temujin's 7:36 AM comments about the peculiar vote-counting halts in several states on election night.
Please respond to J Christian Adams's Dec 2, 2020 article in PJ Media. He discusses the Center for Tech and Civic Life, which donated hundreds of millions of dollars to local election boards. These "fortified" election boards allegedly helped Democrats (but not Republicans) get out the vote in big cities in swing states. I'm interested in your take on this.
https://pjmedia.com/jchristianadams/2020/12/02/the-real-kraken-what-really-happened-to-donald-trump-in-the-2020-election-n1185494
Thanks!
Blogger Drago said...
Ceciliahere: "We are now stuck with a “president” who is trying to transform this country into a socialist state."
Its okay. AMDG feels better at dinner parties now.
———————————
I see you ignored my questions:
3. Based on your binary world do you label Trump voters that stayed home for the Senate runoffs allowing control to flip to the Democrats as “operational Democrats”?
4. Asked on your binary world do,you label one Donald J. Trump as an “operational Democrat” for endorsing Stacey Abrams over. Rain Kemp?
Strong Hillary Defender LKR Chuck: "Mike; the FBI, the CIA, the NSA, the State Department... are all 100% assured that there was Russian interference in the 2016 election.
What is it about that, that you don’t get?"
LOL
This Whitmer fanboy really does think he can continue to pretend its still 2015/2016 and we have learned nothing at all since.
Every single aspect of the "russian interference"/collusion hoax has been blown out of the water.
The latest hoax revelation, covered up for 4 years by the CIA/NSA/FBI/DOJ, was the supposed Trump to Putin TrumpTowerServer to Alpha Bank comms channel that was pushed hard at Althouse blog by.....LLR Chuck.
LLR Chuck's lefty lies never take a day off.
It’s unquestionably true that this election was run like no other, with an unprecedented approach not just to mail-in voting, but with COVID restrictions, to in-person voting as well. If ever there were an election we should look at closely for reliability, security, and lessons learned about what worked and what didn’t, it was 2020.
It’s also unquestionably true that that didn’t happen and, in fact, was it strenuously resisted by the winner and his supporters.
It is a pity that the candidate chosen to win the Democrat primary, and the general election, is an elderly dementia patient. I think an important question is, with the sure knowledge that the Dem candidate was going to win this time around due to universal mail ballots in key states, why didn't the Dems choose someone who could, you know, actually be president? We have a nullity of a VP, a senile President, even an octagenarian House Speaker of dubious mental status. Who actually is running the Executive Branch?
Chucky.....The FBI, the CIA, the NSA and the State Department got together and formed a failed coup of Donald Trump and so far have gotten away with it. The Clinton Campaign paid for the fake dossier. Try to keep up.
What is it about THAT, that YOU don't get??
Joe Biden Got 62-65 million votes + fraud.
Anyone who believes he got 81 million legitimate votes is mathematically illiterate.
Blogger Chuck said...
Mike; the FBI, the CIA, the NSA, the State Department... are all 100% assured that there was Russian interference in the 2016 election.
What is it about that, that you don’t get?
———————————-
1. Russians have tried to interfere in elections since Lenin
2. There was no collusion. The focus on it played into Putin’s hands.
3. The false accusations of collusion which animated the Democrats and the media for four years did incalculable damage to the American body politic. One looks at the actions of people like McCabe, Comey, Schiff, etc. who pushed a narrative that they knew to be false and can reasonably conclude that there was a coup attempted on a legitimately elected President.
4. The false accusations of collusion played no small role in legitimizing the belief of many Republicans that the 2020 election was stolen.
A result of the false accusations of collusion is tha there are large numbers of people on both sides of the political divide that have lost faith in elections. This is a direct challenge to the Republic.
The Joe Biden regime is destroying the future of the democrat party.
The best part of this is that Democrats will never win a legitimate election ever again.
The fraud they will have to resort to will be even more wholesale than 2020.
Nobody believes Joe Biden is Legitimate.
Nobody believes he is doing a good job as president.
Not even Chuck or AMDG or any of the other fraud fans here.
AMDG: "I see you ignored my questions:"
No, I didnt. You just didnt like the answers.
Trump voters from the general were completely demoralized over the clear and irrefutable corruption/incompetence of Raffensberger and Kemp and truly believed the runoff election was already "fixed" as was the general.
And your clear desire to take Trumps Abrams comment/joke as deadly serious is so far beyond stupid, or more likely malicious in intent, that it doesnt warrant any further response.
Ill bet you bought into the "drink bleach" and Charlottesville "nazis are fine people" hoaxes too.
Blogger Chuck said...
Mike; the FBI, the CIA, the NSA, the State Department... are all 100% assured that there was Russian interference in the 2016 election.
What is it about that, that you don’t get?
Again, I refuted your “Hillary didn’t do no conspiracy stuff” with facts and you respond with outdated unreliable insincere appeals to authorities who have proven to be as mendacious as yourself. Bravo Chuck! Pure genius. I’m sure you convinced many that this nation, which only ONCE in our long and storied election history, managed to get over 60% of voters to the polls—1964 it was 61%, the high water mark for “participation” until 2020 when the lamest candidate ever run and who could not draw a crowd lured 67% of “registered voters” to the polls. An historic increase of almost 20% over 2016 participation. And yet this magical increase in Democracy goes completely unremarked upon by cheerleaders for the state leviathan like Chuck.
How weird.
Temujin said...
The greatest fiction in the last 50 years is that Joe Biden received over 81 million votes. Simply not possible.
----------
as phrased : Joe Biden received over 81 million votes is in passive voice and technically certified true with whatever system you have in place
Q : did over 81 million real physical voters cast ballots for Joe Biden [active voice scenario] cannot be substantiated by system you have in place.
Think of the 2020 installation of the Biden-Harris regime less as an election, and more of a deep state flex.
“Bruce - yeah- CO is now East CA. With the horrid traffic, pollution, trash, meth vagrants, and everything. and Boulder-progressive neo-fascists run our statehouse.
“A once free western state - ruined.”
Part of why we spend our time split between states around CO - 6 months in NW MT and 6 months in PHX. My kid is 4th generation Coloradan, and the Remainers in my family are entitled to Pioneer plates (my grandfather homesteaded there over 100 years ago). My kid spent 5 years in the PRB (People’s Republic of Boulder) getting their PhD, and works just east of there in Louisville/Lafayette, but, luckily now lives in much saner W Arvada. It’s going to take years to undo the damage that 5 years of wacko leftist programming did to them when they lived in Boulder. Never understood the lure of that place, since I was in college a half century ago. A half century of anti growth NIMBY policies have resulted in a city with grossly overpriced aged housing. Bicyclists given priority over cars, and no infrastructure growth, have resulted in maybe the most congested city in the state. For me, it’s a hellhole.
Blogger Drago said...
AMDG: "I see you ignored my questions:"
No, I didnt. You just didnt like the answers.
Trump voters from the general were completely demoralized over the clear and irrefutable corruption/incompetence of Raffensberger and Kemp and truly believed the runoff election was already "fixed" as was the general.
And your clear desire to take Trumps Abrams comment/joke as deadly serious is so far beyond stupid, or more likely malicious in intent, that it doesnt warrant any further response.
Ill bet you bought into the "drink bleach" and Charlottesville "nazis are fine people" hoaxes too.
10/2/21, 11:00 AM
—————————-
1. The problem with your response is that the Georgia election was not fixed. It was Trump’s whining about it being fixed that suppressed the turnout that resulted in the loss of the Senate. Kemp and Raffensberger followed the law. Kemp followed the law when in 2018 and 2020.
2. So whenTrump says something inconvenient it is a joke? Having watched the man for nearly 40 years I can tell you that when it comes to his ego he jokes about nothing. He only exists to feed his narcissism. Look at the people he has tossed aside. Loyalty to him means nothing - he will sell you out in a second. He would absolutely support Abrams over Kemp.
The Democrats played him all wrong. Instead of the collusion hoax they should have praised him endlessly. If they had done that he would have cast aside his supporters and signed whatever they put in front of him
3. You lose your bet. I did not buy into either of those two lies.
Thought provoking article by Emerald Robinson
America's Elections Are Rigged (And Everybody Knows It)
The Arizona audit is just the latest example of how rotten our election system has become in recent years.
our republic is suffering a cut at the femoral bandage, but ginsberg offers handiwipes, atlanta the rotten borough, gotham south, is where the infection starts, like detroit like minneapolis, of course arizona was stolen because it was a base for the invasion, a million sofar, 500,000 on the way, before the end of the yeaR
AMDG: "1. The problem with your response is that the Georgia election was not fixed. It was Trump’s whining about it being fixed that suppressed the turnout that resulted in the loss of the Senate."
Wrong. It was Raffensberger and Kemp's pathetic performance that set the entire stage. How do you explain away that it was Raffensberger staffers who fed the hoax re: the phone call between Raffensberger and Trump for months and the transcript of the call was only released AFTER the runoff?
These are not "accidents".
AMDG: "2. So whenTrump says something inconvenient it is a joke?"
When Trump makes a joke it is a joke. Just because you don't want it to have been a joke doesn't make it not a joke.
If you are reduced to going full CNN Mode-Only Take Trump Absolutely Literally on a clear joke from a rally that's on you and you alone.
Yeah, everyone believes Trump is actually endorsing Stacey Abrams.....*rolls eyes*........
Give me a break.
But go ahead, continue with this train of thought and if Walker wins the R nomination go ahead and run him down as well.
AMDG: "3. You lose your bet. I did not buy into either of those two lies."
I am happy to lose a bet of that sort.
Blogger Chuck said...
“Mike; the FBI, the CIA, the NSA, the State Department... are all 100% assured that there was Russian interference in the 2016 election.”
“What is it about that, that you don’t get?”
Find this hilarious, esp With the charging last week of Hillary Clinton Perkins Coie lawyer Sussman charged with lying to the FBI about his representing her, when he was flogging the Steele Dossier to them. It was, of course, Clinton’s Perkins Coie law firm that hired Fusion GPS, which hired Steele to fabricate his Dossier, as well as pay the wife a top tier employee at the DOJ (Bruce Ohr). Turns out that the only source for the Russian Collusion theory was the Clinton funded Steele Dossier, only corroborated through other copies of the same document through other sources, plus a lot of wishful thinking. And we found out last year the the Primary Subsource for the Dossier was a known Ukrainian fabalist, and that much of it was invented and put together over drinks (likely including a lot of vodka) in Georgetown bars.
As for those three agencies cited believing the theory, the State Dept (despite having been run by Crooked Hillary just 4 years earlier) warned the FBI about the Steele Dossier, in late summer before the election, right before the Crossfire Hurricane investigation was initiated. As for the DOJ and FBI, they had questions all the way along, but the theory was so convenient, since it allowed them to use FISA to electronically surveil, and possibly try to blackmail (an FBI practice since J Edger Hoover pioneered it), Trump and his team. Nevertheless, the Mueller investigation was forced by AG Barr, despite its 15 rabidly partisan prosecutors, to admit that there was no, and never had been any, evidence of Russian collusion between the Trump people and the Russian government and their agents.
So, you might have been able to claim that you were correct if you had used the past tense (“were”), but not even close to accurate, when you used the present case (“are”). Each of the agencies you cited may have believed the theory in the summer of 2016, but knew it to be false by the next year.
like the 15 possums who voted for austin, the 20 for austin, the 18 for mayorkas, they own this carp so does the turtle, the doj is waging war on conscientous parents, the pentagon on men (and women) who have done what they are unwilling or unable to do,
Pro-marxist LLR Chuck: “Mike; the FBI, the CIA, the NSA, the State Department... are all 100% assured that there was Russian interference in the 2016 election.”
“What is it about that, that you don’t get?”
Bruce Hayden: "Find this hilarious, esp With the charging last week of Hillary Clinton Perkins Coie lawyer Sussman charged with lying to the FBI about his representing her, when he was flogging the Steele Dossier to them."
Its precisely because we know everything LLR Chuck has been writing for 5+ years in defense of his beloved democraticals (Tribe, Lawfare Blog, Hillary, Weissmann, Schiff, Pelosi, obama, biden, Maddow et al) that Chuck always tries resetting the clock on the astonishing republic-destroying corruption and lies.
Remember, pro-marxist LLR Chuck's purpose at Althouse blog, as he himself stated repeatedly and loudly and proudly, is to smear and lie about conservatives/ republicans and drive a wedge between Althouse and her readers.
Nothing less than that.
That partially explains LLR Chuck's viciously racist attacks on Clarence Thomas, Ben Carson and Thomas Sowell while lauding Al Sharpton, Joy Reid and obama.
There's also the higher or second order corruption: the way the major media and the big tech companies relentlessly tore down Trump and built up Biden, even to the point of suppressing the Hunter Biden laptop story. You could say that it was politics as usual, but it was so unbalanced and so overwhelming as to be unusual and perhaps decisive. As a result Trump voters don't trust the media now, especially after the media kept saying that Trump's claims were "without evidence" without ever bothering to seriously investigate them. There's a sense that whatever the degree that the election was stolen in the voting and counting, it certainly was fixed in other ways.
Ya' know......y'all just polishing Chuck's tent pole......and the pig likes it!!
"So, you might have been able to claim that you were correct if you had used the past tense (“were”), but not even close to accurate, when you used the present case (“are”)."
Thank you, Bruce Hayden, for taking the time to push back against Chuck's mendacity.
Pushing so hard against audits ( like pushing so hard FOR vaccines ) causing anyone with a grain of sense to want to step back and question why?
Then when people questioning why get censored, well no one is going to trust those pushing at all, nor should they.
The Democrats played him all wrong. Instead of the collusion hoax they should have praised him endlessly. If they had done that he would have cast aside his supporters and signed whatever they put in front of him
In other words, Trump's massive ego and combative personality kept him from becoming the RINO we all expected.
Just imagine how great it would have been if George Bush had some ego because as Ayn Rand wrote "Man's ego is the fountainhead of his progress".
"no use producing evidence because Republicans won't believe it or will just interpret it to mean what they want it to mean"
As demonstrated repeatedly above.
Who really believes in their heart that Biden so excited the American electorate that in addition to everyone who voted in 2016, ANOTHER 3O MILLION also showed up to joyfully cast a ballot for Joe? If you DO believe this happened last year, please tell me HOW he motivated an historic increase at the polls never before seen in our history? Note: Trump also got more votes than any incumbent in history, including Reagan and Obama. Please factor that into your explanation. Then tell me why true-blue California did NOT enjoy that same enthusiasm for voting in the recall just concluded, because whatever factors motivated the whole country last year would still be in play now, right? Right?
it's no use producing evidence because Republicans won't believe it or will just interpret it to mean what they want it to mean.
You misspelled "Democrats".
It should be recalled LLR Chuck wanted the entire Trump communications shop brought in to testify before a grand jury regarding whether or not Sarah Huckabee Sanders had actually baked a couple of pecan pies at home.
Literally.
One of LLR Chuck's early conspiracy theories that is noted for context.
No use producing evidence because democraticals won't believe it or will just interpret it to mean what they want it to mean"l.
As demonstrated daily for the last 20 years.
Did you know that fire cant melt steel and 9-11 was an "inside job"?
Yes, the "fire cant melt steel" crowd has thoughts on conspiracy theories.
Forget the videos you've seen of workers running the same pile of ballots through the counting machine multiple times. Or the ones where poll workers are filling out blank ballots. Or sealed ballot boxes being taken away and replaced by by others. Or counting operations restarting in the wee hours of the day after the election when unsealed boxes show up in a U-Haul truck. Etc.
Forget your lyin' eyes. Believe the asshole that says there were no irregularities.
I would like for someone to explain to me how the paper ballot that I placed into a machine was correctly counted. I would also like someone to explain how every ballot that was correctly counted was cast one time by someone who was legally eligible to vote. Am I asking too much? Just explain the process of accuracy.
Once the process of accuracy is explained, tell me how this process is audited. I don't really care about Trump and I don't really care that Biden won. Although I think the country would be better with Trump, my enjoyment of life revolves 95% around my own choices.
"The more that you protest, the more we’ll rub it in."
I'm not sure who this "we" is here. Yes I don't like Trump. No, that doesn't mean I am willing to give Slow Joe a pass on the complete fuck up he's become. Perhaps you are too busy laughing at people to whom you feel superior to notice the constant stream of disasters coming from the current administration, but the shit storm just keeps on coming. It's hard to be glad Trump's gone when you have to deal with the reality of the fact that Biden's still there.
Well, if I am convinced that ballots were manufactured in job lots, and the people who keep saying that the elections were fair and above board want to keep recounting those selfsame ballots that I want forensically examined, then I doubt they are going to convince me that I am wrong. And if they keep insisting that all we are going to do is recount all the ballots, then I am going to question their motives.
I have written it in these threads dozens of times by now- the Biden ballots physically exist. I have never given credence to the claims that the tallies were electronically manipulated- to do so would fail at the very first hand recount and audit. The fraud was of the good old stuffing-the-ballot-box variety. No recount can, at this point, distinguish valid votes from invalid ones. This is what Ginsburg is asking for- recounts of the entirety of the ballots with no actual "audit" of the process itself.
The Democrats and the courts allowed the flooding of every urban/suburban jurisdiction with mail-in-ballots. The Democrats then collected these ballots on the ground both voted validly and voted invalidly. They did this in the 2018 elections in California specifically as a trial run for the 2020 election. In 2018, the California Republicans got blindsided by the operation and lost every single close Congressional race long after election day. In 2020, the California Republicans were ready and they won every close Congressional race by doing the exact same harvest operations the Democrats were doing. This is why Trump actually finished closer in California in 2020 than he did in 2016- it was the one mail-vote state where the local Republicans actually competed on method with the Democrats to some extent.
A real audit would examine the signatures on the open envelopes. At this point in time, the votes can't be tied to the signatures- the ballots themselves are unsigned as per secret ballot rules, but in many states the envelopes are supposed to still exist by law and can be compared to the register signatures that are supposed to match in order for the ballot to be counted. This is where the system broke down (was broken down)- the complete abandonment of security controls on absentee/mail ballots- this shows up in the incredible drops in rejection rates in the big urban counties in every state the Democrats control the Secretary of State offices and/or the governorship. An open audit that examines the signatures on the envelopes would convince me the election was above board, but this is exactly the kind of audit people like Ginsburg, Chuck, and other NeverTrumpers will never support in a retrospective fashion.
@ Amadeus 48: "I am amazed that Trump didn't have his own vote harvesting operation after seeing all those Dem congressmen and women elected well after the polls closed in 2018. It shows his essential political amateurishness. His wild accusations reflect his chagrin at losing an election that he could have easily won. And then he flailed his way to GOP defeat in the two Georgia Senate elections."
You make an excellent case for Anyone But Trump in 2024. And I voted for Trump in 2016 and 2020.
jim said...
"no use producing evidence because Republicans won't believe it or will just interpret it to mean what they want it to mean"
As demonstrated repeatedly above.
Did the Hillary campaign and allies including the FBI get caught making up the Russian Collusion hoax or not?
Did the FBI get caught lying to the FISA court or not?
Did republican poll observers get kicked out of polling stations or not?
Was Hunter Biden caught on tape talking about 10% for the big guy or not?
Did Hillary Clinton receive over 140 million dollars from Russia through her foundation or not?
Has it been over 30 days since Joe Biden abandoned hundreds of American citizens in Afghanistan or not?
Is there a massive humanitarian crisis including thousands of COVID positive illegal immigrants flooding across our southern border or not?
Are key inflation measures hitting 30 year highs or not?
Did millions of votes come in days after the election or not?
Did the audit in Arizona find thousands of errors and multiples of the margin for victory in the state in just one county or not?
Did Maricopa county bureaucrats get caught deleting election records or not?
The AZ Secretary of State was funded by George Soros and has described Trump voters as "Nazis." She is now running for Governor.
But do you really think the Secretary did all the dirty work herself? The possible fraud allegations we've seen discussed all would have required the knowing cooperation of dozens, hundreds, or even thousands of people. Any one of whom could have blown the whistle and exposed the operation.
Consider the supposed Atlanta fraud. A bunch of election workers sent home, then another bunch of conspirators bring out the fake ballots and start counting them once they're no longer being observed. How many people had to participate in the latter group? How could you be certain that the Republican campaigns, with no shortage of rich donors, could never get to any of those conspirators? The first conspirator to crack could have made millions, and most of the vote-counters are not wealthy. You wouldn't even attempt to do this if you thought there was any chance of being exposed. Who wants to go to jail for a politician a thousand miles away?
I see Chuck is a Russia Russia Russia Truther. eee gads.
The entire Russia Russia Trump BS- is all lies - lies planted by team Hillary.
“But do you really think the Secretary did all the dirty work herself? The possible fraud allegations we've seen discussed all would have required the knowing cooperation of dozens, hundreds, or even thousands of people. Any one of whom could have blown the whistle and exposed the operation.”
The purpose of the Secretary of State in this scheme is to run high level cover - to certify the vote totals, regardless of the amount of visible fraud. In AZ, she has also thwarted the Senate adit at every turn.
We do know the identities of three Atlanta election workers who were involved in recounting the same ballots over and over again. No surprise though that they haven’t been arrested - the same Atlanta political machine that they work for, elected the judges, DA, and the Roosevelt’s who run the police. That’s part of why I think that they will probably never have decent audits in Philadelphia and Detroit - the Dem machines in those cities are just too well entrenched.
You wouldn't even attempt to do this if you thought there was any chance of being exposed. Who wants to go to jail for a politician a thousand miles away?
I grant you that it has been very well done. Democrats have been perfecting vote fraud for decades. AZ is rather new at it but the Soros money was well spent. First the Maricopa County Sheriff, then the election supervisor and the Sec State. Soros has been funding Sec State and DA races for the past 5 or 6 years all around the country. By "Soros" I include a number of his billionaire allies who seem determined to establish a dysfunctional oligarchy. Kerry's wife and any number of hedge fund billionaires, a WalMart heiress who is on the board of an organization that funds BLM. There is quite a list.
"I've read some of the comments over there, and the most common notion seems to be that it's no use producing evidence because Republicans won't believe it or will just interpret it to mean what they want it to mean."
Why go "over there". The comments to your own blog are pretty over whelming support for the above statement.
Example: "Forget the videos you've seen of workers running the same pile of ballots through the counting machine multiple times. Or the ones where poll workers are filling out blank ballots. Or sealed ballot boxes being taken away and replaced by by others. Or counting operations restarting in the wee hours of the day after the election when unsealed boxes show up in a U-Haul truck. Etc.
Forget your lyin' eyes. Believe the asshole that says there were no irregularities."
Where do you think a person who posts something like this was educated?
Interesting the resistance to real meaningful audits of the 2020 election, much less changes to reduce the chance of fraud.
Both by Democrats and establishment GOP.
Seems both groups are happy with voter fraud.
Why no discussion on what European countries require to reduce the opportunity for voter fraud?
The vast expansion of "vote by mail" will warp and eliminate anything we recognized as a normal election. In the past, the target audience of campaigns was the independent vote and the messaging seemed middle-of-the road. With mail in ballots, the new target audience will be "low information" voters who can be influenced by the campaign able to saturation bomb the electorate with a "sesame street" collection of pablum and catchy jingles.
Why no discussion on what European countries require to reduce the opportunity for voter fraud?
---------
more than 2 parties in all countries with a transparent election system - their version of checks and balances in fight for place at table for slice of that yummy pie.
what passes for election in USA will be joke if tried in India.
and try to exclude observers if you want bloodshed.
"Interesting the resistance to real meaningful audits of the 2020 election, much less changes to reduce the chance of fraud.'
You call what you geniuses produced in Arizona a "real meaningful audit"? It was a clown show. If you want to invest our hard earned dollars in this, come up with some evidence of fraud. And "Daaa i went to sleep and Trump was ahead and when I woke up he was behind", or "Daaa I saw it on tv" is not evidence.
I like how you people openly confess being udderly helpless in the face of the Omniprescient uberpowerful democratical soy boy toys.
Like everything else, election fraud won't be a problem until Republicans do it. Let a few busloads of questionable voters turn up in battleground district in buses decked out with MAGA gear, and the Democrats will demand voter ID.
Chuck tries to tell us that Hillary conceded the 2016 election to Trump and went back to Chappaqua.
Far from it:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4875052/Hillary-Clinton-believes-Trump-s-team-colluded-Russia.html
'I'm convinced of it': Hillary Clinton believes Trump's campaign team colluded with Russia to influence the election
Hillary Clinton says she is convinced Donald Trump's campaign team colluded with Russia to meddle in the 2016 election
She believes Trump's team communicated with Russia and that they had some sort of understanding
Clinton said there was no doubt that Putin wanted her to lose the election
She spoke out ahead of the Tuesday release of her new memoir "What Happened"
*********************
Well, OF COURSE she thought that! Her own law form pushed the entire conspiracy all the way into 2020-----even though Trump repeatedly gave Putin the back oh his hand, and EVERY SINGLE PREMISE that Trump somehwo "owed" Putin and/or was "Owned" by him were shown to be false.
Chuck is such a pathetic weenie.....
Jeff said...
The first conspirator to crack could have two rounds to the back of his head in his 'suicide',and most of the vote-counters are not Stupid. You wouldn't even attempt to do this if you thought you wanted to live.
fify!
Seriously, how many people has Hilary! suicided? WHY would you want to be another?
The Democrats followed Sun Tzu's advice in the past election: "First you win, then you fight." There is no question that Trump's failure to fight back on the Democrats' demolition of voting safeguards in 2020 through lawfare cost him the election. Hopefully these election audits will make it that much harder for Dems to cheat in 2024.
It would be a lot easier to believe that there were no shenanigans if Democrats in control of voting in these places were more forthcoming with forensic data regarding the vote. The hiding and even destruction of evidence is evidence of a guilty state of mind.
The video from Fulton County is proof positive of fraud. The pattern by which the trend turned and new votes appeared overnight in several other Democrat controlled areas cannot be ignored.
New laws Democrats are trying to pass that would prevent any sort of audit tells us that the fraud is an ongoing criminal conspiracy.
But don't deny the fraud without explaining the Fulton County video of the ballots in the suitcases being pulled out from under the tables and counted 3 times after GOP monitors for forced out of the room.
Blogger Mutaman said...
"Interesting the resistance to real meaningful audits of the 2020 election, much less changes to reduce the chance of fraud.'
You call what you geniuses produced in Arizona a "real meaningful audit"? It was a clown show.
I told you it was well done. You lefties have spent much more time on cheating than on governing. That's why every 20 years or so, we have to start all over with sane economic policies. This time you may have killed the goose that lays the golden eggs you give away.
Jeepers. An author who isn't insane. Well, good.
Let's be clear about what election fraud is. It's voting someone else's ballot, or voting twice, or "stuffing the ballot box." Maybe there are other types of election fraud, those are all I can think of at the moment. If anyone has identified any real, live person who voted someone else's ballot, or who voted twice, or who "stuffed the ballot box," let's see the evidence. Show me the money, or shut up.
"It would be a lot easier to believe that there were no shenanigans if Democrats in control of voting in these places were more forthcoming with forensic data regarding the vote. The hiding and even destruction of evidence is evidence of a guilty state of mind."
You don't hide things that don't need hiding. Everybody understands what's going on.
mkh said...
" The video from Fulton County is proof positive of fraud. "
The stupidity is just over whelming!
https://www.wsbtv.com/news/politics/georgia-election-officials-show-frame-by-frame-what-really-happened-fulton-surveillance-video/T5M3PYIBYFHFFOD3CIB2ULDVDE/
"Show me the money, or shut up."
I know it's true oh so true cause I saw it on T.V.
Original Mike said...
"Everybody understands what's going on."
Now that's what I call pretty convincing evidence Mike.
Hmm….
Domenick J. DeMuro?
https://www.bizpacreview.com/2020/05/22/trump-vindicated-on-voter-fraud-elections-judge-convicted-of-stuffing-ballots-for-dems-924093/
Not to mention all the issues the Az audit turned up.
Or the running of ballots on video multiple times through?
Blogger Douglas B. Levene said...
>Show me the money, or shut uP
Dear Ben-
I truly hope Trump runs in 2024 and crushes the Dem nominee.
Together, we can listen to Chuck react - wailing and gnashing.
One can hope and pray… Sincerely: farmgirl
Lots (too many) responding to the **ck troll.
He has challenged any notion of election fraud. Never addressing the actual agreed to evidence of election fraud.
I got through all these comments quickly, because those defending the election never use facts.
Most of the comments here prove Ginsburg's point. A recurring theme among Trump supporters here is that there's absolute proof that the election was rigged, and then they don't provide anything but vague assertions or links to questionable sources. Of course, when you point that out, the circular reasoning that accompanies conspiracy theories leads those folks to call you a part of the conspiracy. Kind of like lefties and the JFK assassination. For year libs followed all the blind alleys of the conspiracy ideas--watch Oliver Stone's JFK for a prime example of how confusing and stupid this stuff can be. One of the ironies of the last 5 years is that right wingers now think the CIA and FBI are threats to society and lefties think they're noble organizations worthy of our respect. God, politics makes us stupid. By the way, when was the last time you heard a Republican talk about something mundane but defining, something like, I don't know, fiscal responsibility?
It's long been my position that if you were trying to establish an environment in which you could affect the outcome of an election through fraud, it's hard to imagine what you'd do that Democrats didn't do in 2020. Vast expansion of mail-in balloting, rule changes favoring very late voting, insistence that signature verification was somehow "racist," ballot harvesting, and the ever-popular voter ID requirements and scrubbing voter rolls of the dead and the relocated also being "racist"...
But don't stop there! The constant refrain that counting and recounting the same, unverifiable ballots constitutes an "audit" rather than just a recount, the immediate destruction of voting records, the immediate and un-undoable separation of mail-in ballots from the official envelopes they arrived in, the uniform messaging that anyone who questions the veracity and accuracy of this election is either a cretin or unpatriotic or both...
I don't know that fraud dragged Biden over the line in a few key counties of a few key states. It's certainly true that Trump was and is such a polarizing figure that - though it does strain the bounds of common sense - it's possible he alone could have driven turnout to the highest levels ever seen (there's no way Biden could have done that). But again, if I were trying to lay the groundwork for guaranteeing the outcome we got BAMN, I'd be hard pressed to think of measures beyond what the Democrats actually have done, and celebrated having done.
Or the running of ballots on video multiple times through?
--------------
how did they get ballot totals to match? did they simply have two more piles available but not really needed to go through the effort since all were same?
I am sure they have their story about what happened at Fulton County, but why were the official cameras turned off, and why were the scrutineers sent home because of a fake plumbing problem?
Who was there to verify their story? Nobody. So don't blame us if we don't believe it. Twitter assured us that all claims of election fraud were baseless because people from both parties were there when the votes were counted. Of course Twitter lied, Facebook lied, Google lied, YouTube lied, but now we are supposed to believe some excuse they concocted when there would not have been any questions had they not gotten rid of Republican observers.
People who try to hide their actions, to shield them from scrutiny, don't deserve the benefit of the doubt when they claim that after they went to a lot of trouble to make sure that nobody was looking, they did nothing wrong.
A recurring theme among Trump supporters here is that there's absolute proof that the election was rigged, and then they don't provide anything but vague assertions or links to questionable sources.
Some seem to be claiming this. Others, like me, only say that there was a lot that stank like week-old fish in that election, and the refusal of Democrats even to entertain the idea of verifying election security is a suggestion that they also know it stank, but in their favor - so we're all going to call it "piquant" instead of rotten.
Election security is "mundane but defining," sadly. Democrats appear to have - not just no interest in it, but am active interest in undermining it.
" recurring theme among Trump supporters here is that there's absolute proof that the election was rigged, and then they don't provide anything but vague assertions or links to questionable sources."
So what's a good source? The New York Times or The Washington Post, both proven to be nothing but conduits for DNC, CIA, and FBI lies and smears? Remember when the New York Times printed that fake "Black Ledger" that was provided by a Ukrainian politician, a politician shown by White House logs to have met with Biden and Ciaramella, the 'whistleblower' in the White House basement? A meeting in which the demand that the prosecutor who was giving that Ukrainian kleptocrat who hired Hunter Biden, that that prosecutor be fired or they lose a billion dollars. The New York Times saw fit to print that fake news on the front page in August leading up to the election.
Remember when the New York Times falsely claimed that the Hunter Biden laptop was "Russian disinformation"? We knew at the time it wasn't true, and more and more evidence has piled up that the laptop is, in fact, authentic.
Is the New York Times your idea of a 'reliable source'?
Mutaman said...
mkh said...
" The video from Fulton County is proof positive of fraud. "
The stupidity is just over whelming!
https://www.wsbtv.com/news/politics/georgia-election-officials-show-frame-by-frame-what-really-happened-fulton-surveillance-video/T5M3PYIBYFHFFOD3CIB2ULDVDE/
--------------
is it usual and normal for workers to scan ballots without observers present?
why not wait till all witnesses can witness
It seems like the comments Ann discusses were 100% accurate.
"You call what you geniuses produced in Arizona a "real meaningful audit"? It was a clown show. "
It has been described as such by media outlets who serve as DNC mouthpieces. But it is interesting that you don't think that anybody has a right to see if an election was fairly conducted. That's the real point, isn't it? That Democrats refuse to cooperate with any investigation of the election that they claim were the most fair ever.
" Republican talk about something mundane but defining, something like, I don't know, fiscal responsibility?"
Well, since the Democrats have used these elections that they don't want looked into at all whatsoever, beyond recounting ballots that have already been tainted, to loot the treasury, I think that election security is a higher priority.
Just one more thought (God willing).
"Where there's smoke there's fire" is an insufficient legal evidentiary standard. However, it is a useful algorithm for evaluating events in the real world. It doesn't necessarily point to Truth with a capital T, but it does indicate that doubt and/or investigation is reasonable.
Why wouldn't the "fairest election ever" side welcome real, detailed heyaudits, if they believe it really was the fairest election ever? It beggars belief to say that it's because of the cost to taxpayers...
"Is the New York Times your idea of a 'reliable source'?"
The Times and other news sources discovered what Roger Aisles tapped into with Fox news: tailor your news to an audience and they will come. The Times was dying, but Trump drove circulation increases by being such a polarizing figure who made sure he was pissed off all the time and posted his daily mood on Twitter. Sold a lot of subscriptions, he did.
NPR, WaPa and others followed suit. Perhaps there are no truly reliable sources, but I see a lot of assertions of voter fraud and election rigging, but nothing that really proves them.
Here's a typical 60s and 70s era assertion about the JFK assassination, from Annie Hall: "I'll tell you this! He was not marksman enough to hit a moving target at that range." But, of course, he was. People will believe what they want to believe. In the meantime, both Republicans and Democrats are avoiding making actual decisions and taking any real action on problems because FB, newspaper comments sections, Twitter, and so on keep filling up space with idiotic opinions, and politicians now spend their time reacting to and tailoring their images to those day to day, ever changing moods. "We have met the enemy, and he is us."
"Where there's smoke there's fire" is an insufficient legal evidentiary standard. However, it is a useful algorithm for evaluating events in the real world."
I put this in the same category as, "Reiki works because...well, it just does!"
Blogger farmgirl said...
Dear Ben-
I truly hope Trump runs in 2024 and crushes the Dem nominee.
Together, we can listen to Chuck react - wailing and gnashing.
One can hope and pray… Sincerely: farmgirl
Don’t you first have to get past the part where Trump gets indicted?
The Times and other news sources discovered what Roger Aisles tapped into with Fox news: tailor your news to an audience and they will come.
I know that is the wisdom pushed by Matt Taibbi and others but I think you've got a chicken/egg problem. I'm old enough to remember when Sam Donaldson was a slightly more polite version of Jim Acosta. You're telling me there was nothing in what the alphabet networks were doing in the 1980s that might have convinced people they needed to look for another source of information?
Those claiming there is no evidence are willfully ignoring the evidence in Maricopa County.
I’ll answer the challenge for my side to advocate for simple Republican principles: we must have every ballot verified at the time it is cast, that is tied to an acceptable ID and every mail-in ballot must be signature matched to a registered voter at the address the ballot was mailed to. Simple. Creates an auditable trail if the existing rules are followed.
There are two major problems of course. The above is what Texas passed, along with adding more days to vote early, and yet Democrats and their media monkeys went DEFCON 5 with cries of “Jim Crow!” like they ALWAYS do. The second is that local “election officials” are infested with activists who hate that my side gets to vote at all, so they don’t follow the rules and they have shadowy anti-democracy billionaires like Zuck and Soros and The Center for Technology and Civic Life— how is paying “non-partisan local officials” to assist D voters but not R even legal? — and they admit it (Google “molly ball 2020 election) even brag about their evil schemes.
Then after the fact, after denying simple effective reforms, the media and the annoyingly insouciant lefties here will insist people caught with boatloads of ballots are “anecdotal” and no matter how many democrat election judges go to jail, they insist there is no “widespread” fraud at all while denying us the tools to investigate what exactly did happen. So fuck you antidemocratic people. If you believed in “one man one vote” you would want it simple and verifiable. I will not be convinced by bullies that the pathetic husk pretending to be president managed to motivate an incredible historic increase in new voters that dwarfs all historical turnout, and the best evidence it didn’t happen is the 100% blackout on any credible election information. Other than Molly Ball’s Time Magazine piece no one wants to brag for breaking a 250-year-old record? That’s a big dog that ain’t barking!
The corrupt left will yammer on endlessly about how audits are bad... until they realize they can control what the audit is auditing.
“I told you it was well done. You lefties have spent much more time on cheating than on governing. That's why every 20 years or so, we have to start all over with sane economic policies. This time you may have killed the goose that lays the golden eggs you give away.”
They set the Clown Show narrative well before it was (mostly) completed, seeing how thorough the audit was, in preparation for devastating results. It was very thorough and very transparent. Every ballot was checked by at least three sets of eyes, and it was all recorded. Etc. Far more transparent than the actual election counting. So, of cours4, our worst purveyor of DNC and MSM talking points called it a clown show.
They’re “just asking questions.”
Evidence
I am especially concerned with Election Management Database System Purged and Election Files Deleted. There are other categories that are also concerning. Is this corruption or sloppiness? There's probably no way to tell, but it is unacceptable. If the shoe were on the other foot the left would be screaming bloody murder, and rightly so.
why the rush to instant gratification when ?constitution? provides more than 2 months between election day and days finalizing who won?
all results should be wishful speculative till then.
no transporting ballots from place to place - all counts in situ.
However, ["where there's smoke there's fire"] is a useful algorithm for evaluating events in the real world."
I put this in the same category as, "Reiki works because...well, it just does!"
Do you? How about, "Hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras"? Does that work better for you? It's the same principle... and is the guiding principle behind human pattern-seeking. Again, not necessarily leading to Truth, but suggestive that it's reasonable to ask questions.
Why do you have such a problem with that? I am not saying, nor ever have I said, that there was definitely election fraud - that there are no zebras. I'm just looking at what actually happened and saying, "Hmm, hoofbeats. I wonder what's making them..."
I'm confused-did they find bamboo in the ballots or didn't they?
“ I am especially concerned with Election Management Database System Purged and Election Files Deleted. There are other categories that are also concerning. Is this corruption or sloppiness? There's probably no way to tell, but it is unacceptable. If the shoe were on the other foot the left would be screaming bloody murder, and rightly so.”
Some of it was very obviously intentional. For example, some log files were overwritten by generating thousands of log entries in one day last spring - a day or so before the log files were turned over to the Senate audit team.
“There Were Large Pieces Torn Off – Bubbles Being Filled Absolutely Perfect – 60,000 Illegal Ballots” – AZ Audit Volunteers Speak Out on Disturbing Findings — MUST SEE VIDEO
"but I see a lot of assertions of voter fraud and election rigging, but nothing that really proves them."
According to an 'audit' of Georgia election signatures, whose rules were set by the Democrats before it was done, this is a valid signature:
https://welovetrump.com/2020/12/31/check-out-what-qualifies-as-a-signature-match-in-georgia/
In other words, the whole signature validation process was a sham. You can bet that if this was a signature for a ballot initiative that the Democrats didn't want to happen, it would have been rightfully rejected.
Of course you won't see this in the New York Times, which was up to its neck in furthering a criminal conspiracy to damage Trump and which lied to suppress the Hunter Biden laptop. It's quite a defense mechanism you have got going there. Seems pretty bullet proof.
"Some of it was very obviously intentional. For example, some log files were overwritten by generating thousands of log entries in one day last spring - a day or so before the log files were turned over to the Senate audit team."
The FBI and the DOJ would rightly use that as evidence of guilt if Trump had done such a thing.
If the New York Times didn't see fit to print it, it must not have happened. And if the New York Times sees fit to print a lie about Trump or a lie to protect Biden, it all good.
Because those Republican election lawyers have been so successful...
Skipper said...
Because those Republican election lawyers have been so successful
Well we won the day in 2000.
We carefully built strong majorities in the critical midwestern swing states, winning legislatures, governorships and state supreme courts.
With the Federalist Society, we built the system of developing appellate lawyers for state and federal courts.
With that platform, we were winning discrete election law battles. We advanced voter photo i.d. in many states. In a state like Michigan, we held the line and allowed zero in-person early voting. We were winning in ways that caused our political opponents on the Left to try to portray the Federalist Society as a dangerous force of dark power.
And nationally, we had built a strong bench of election law advocates like Hans von Spakovsky and Kris Kobach.
In the age of Trump, all of that is gone. After the first two years of Trump, Michigan has gone entirely blue in state elections, and the Republican majorities in the state house and state senate will now be redistricted by a commission. Kobach and von Spakovsky, having become Trump flunkies, are now discredited.
And our carefully-cultivated "brand" of competent and respected Republican Election Lawyers has been permanently tarnished by insane Trumpist incompetents; Rudy Giuliani, Sidney Powell, Lin Wood, and a flock of other madmen who have lost every important election case that they have filed. And, in the process, have performed so badly and so dishonestly that they are being sanctioned with costs and professional discipline in court, and being sued civilly for defamation.
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