What I remember is continual doubt that he had even minimal competence. I searched my blog archive — and I scanned presidential campaign news every single day — to find anything about Biden and "competence" and the closest I came was a May 2, 2020 post where I was quoting something from New York Magazine about Biden campaigning from his home basement:
[Biden is] largely staying true to the strategy that’s guided his campaign since early on, which holds that the winningest Biden is one to be imagined, not seen, heard, or even thought about too hard. His staff recognizes that the less its candidate speaks, the less opportunity his supporters have to neglect evidence that undermines their faith — in his competence, his election odds, and, increasingly, his innocence.
If competence was the heart of his campaign, then it was a campaign in negative space. Through his absence, the idea of his competence might survive in the minds of the people who maintain a spark of belief in it. And, really, that had more to do with the widespread and vehement belief that Trump was incompetent. For those in that mindset, almost nothing was expected from Biden.
So what's this "crisis of competence" Biden faces now? As Trump fades into the past and those who believed in Biden look to him for performance, rather than mere nonTrumpness, it's a crisis for the vain fool.
Oh, am I really going to read this Cillizza thing?
After four years of Donald Trump's incompetence in, well, everything, the Biden argument was that the country badly needed a steady hand on the tiller -- someone who had been there and done that.
Ludicrous. Steady hand on the tiller... been there and done that.... Thanks for signaling that you're writing on autopilot.
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Chris Cillizza knows incompetence.
At the heart of Joe Biden's 2020 presidential campaign was a single phrase: "Come on, man. I'm not Trump."
Forces of history ebb and flow, but The Narrative remains constant.
Good grief, have these Biden sycophants no shame?
He's one of those writers that makes me automatically not read.
Ann - Thanks for reading/analyzing/opinionating on this -- saves many of us the pain of doing it ourselves. Only ~ 40 more months to go!
Hmmm...does Cillizza deal with the famous Obama quote on Joe's ability to fuck things up? That seems to go to the core of the competence issue.
It feels like they are still trying to develop the positive leftie mythology around Joe the perpetual Presidential loser- has he ever won once?...they don't bother trying President boyfriend, experienced leader doesn't work- he has too many political skeletons. Creepy grandpa and/or Depends-clad nursing home man stick like glue but I don't think that's what they're going for...
I miss Trump's "incompetence"...
Does anybody really think that this disastrous Afghanistan pullout would have happened under Biden but for the withdrawal process that Trump himself claims he made irreversible? And given the irreversible nature of Trump’s Afghanistan process, that it would have gone any better if Trump had been in charge of it? What exactly would Trump have done differently? Trump says he wanted an earlier pullout.
I’m hearing the Trump cultists saying, “It’s not the pullout that was bad; it’s how the pullout was executed.” Well what would Trump have done differently? What terms of their Doha agreement with the Trump Administration has the Taliban materially violated? (Answer: none.)
This was a scenario that Trump would never have opposed.
I know I shouldn’t be surprised at the beliefs of the left, but it is really incomprehensible how people like Cilicia can believe that Trump proved himself incompetent and Biden had a track record of competence, until One considers just how completely the left was brainwashed. TDS is a less serious way of expressing their beliefs about Trump but the so-called sophisticates are nothing more than left-wing urban hillbillies who were told what to believe and fell in line. How else to explain Trump’s record of solid accomplishments: best economy in 50 years especially for the working class, the Abraham Axxords, energy independence, strengthening NATO, successfully confronting China and North Korea, building back the depleted military defenses, taking control of borders, etc. being viewed as the product of incompetence? Trump upset the Establishment grifter apple cart and every self-delusion upon which it was based. Biden is bereft of virtually any accomplishments in over 40 years in public office save self-enrichment. He could not obtain an endorsement from Obama beyond “Never underestimate the ability of Biden to f##k things up.” Now the likes of Cilizza will need to put some distance between themselves and Biden to avoid scrutiny of just how incompetent the ruling “elites” are and how they totally misled the American people about Dementia Joe. Pathetic.
What I thought, to the extent I give Biden credit at all, is that he would hire people who could get the job done. I think that was Trump's greatest failing, the inability (or unwillingness?) to employ people who were capable and/or wouldn't stab him in the back. It doesn't matter how competent a President is if he doesn't make good hiring decisions. No President can run the government by himself, not unless he's Bill Clinton who probably could have.
But maybe Biden's people are doing exactly what he wants. After all, he voted against funding the South Vietnamese government in 1975 after we'd pulled out of there. From what I've read, he knew what it meant to do that. So cutting off allies at the knees is a Biden tradition. And he is a Democrat, the anti-war party, at least in my lifetime. This is what we should expect from a true blue Democrat.
A steady hand on the tiller? A steady hand on the bannister is more than you can ask of Biden at this point.
Biden's entire career has been a crisis of competence.
Here is a story about Biden’s competence and the current disaster. But some people always want to talk about “something else.” It’s a good trick…sometimes. Chuck wants to know what Trump would have done differently; well, we’ll never know, will we. This is Biden’s disaster and incompetence. Well, Harris too. Here’s something; it could not be or look worse under Trump, or anyone else.
@Chuck
I'm not a Trump cultist (I still call him Orange the Clown), but not even I think he could have done a worst job than this shit show. It'd be hard to image how.
“Does anybody really think that this disastrous Afghanistan pullout would have happened under Biden but for the withdrawal process that Trump himself claims he made irreversible? And given the irreversible nature of Trump’s Afghanistan process, that it would have gone any better if Trump had been in charge of it? What exactly would Trump have done differently? Trump says he wanted an earlier pullout.”
On the off chance that your questions are in good faith, search: POMPEO + NEWSWEEK August 17
Chuck--you are raving--but that is nothing new.
Trump wanted to get out by May 1. He didn't. He lost the election and was out on January 20. Biden came in. Today, May 1 is distantly in the rear view mirror. Biden was under no time pressure. He bolted--note the smoke from the burning documents in the pictures of the helicopters going from the embassy to the airport. He ran away, and he exposed thousands to the revenge of the Taliban.
Give it up. Biden is incompetent. Gates said it, and Obama said it.
I assume you are a paid troll. Your job is to keep the blame away from The Dims and the focus on Trump. No one else would be so irritatingly persistent in his monomania. You are bad at your job.
"... it begins with a premise I can't get my head around: "At the heart of Joe Biden's 2020 presidential campaign was a single word: competence."
Right. Americans were being BSed in 2020, and this is BS now. But the difference, as the post illustrates, is that the Dem/media BS is being exposed for the nonsense it was, beyond their ability to hide and deny.
"someone who had been there and done that"
Again, the hollowness of the media elite is getting exposed: Joe had been there, but done nothing useful. F&$#ed things up, Barry said. Always wrong, Gates said.
"Ludicrous . . . Thanks for signaling that you're writing on autopilot."
This applies to our entire elite: no substance, no thought, no skill. Propaganda all the way down. Afghanistan exposes the essential fault of the establishment autopilot. Mugging by reality will do that, to cite Meade.
Chuck expects a detailed plan, down to the air traffic controllers' supply of cough drops. Then he will maintain that it couldn't work and that proves Trump could have done no better.
Since it is hardly possible to do it worse, by sheer luck, Trump would have done it better. However, as has been pointed out, his hires were not loyal, or competent. Still, if they'd been interested in military matters--I speak of the generals--instead of white rage and climate change--they might have found a couple of lieutenants to do the work. I think of my OCS class fifty plus years ago..... Yeah, we could do it if the establishment didn't try to sabotage the effort.
I'd be secondarily concerned about the organization of the actual skedaddle. Primarily, I'd be interested in how come our intel missed this.
Now. When does Xi invade Taiwan? When he manages to stop laughing.
"given the irreversible nature of Trump’s Afghanistan process,"
umm? if it was SO SET IN STONE, why didn't happen in May?
If it didn't happen in May, Why did it happen this weekend?
Oh, that's right! because Jo Biden set the rules, and Jo Biden wanted it to!
Last week I told others that this will kill Biden's presidency. The globalist class, upper-middle-class, white, credentialed, are willing to endure a lot, but they can't endure humiliation. They live and die by approval of their peers, including overseas. Public embarrassment of this magnitude will get them angry.
We're already starting to see the articles appear about how "key decisions" were mysteriously delayed, and articles about Biden's competence. Soon they'll become more explicit: how he is "distracted" in meetings, how he struggles to understand important briefings, how his temper constantly flairs up at the slightest confusion or misunderstandings, etc.
I figure we have two months before the Dems are pushing for the 25th. The question is: will the GOP play ball, and if so what concessions will they demand?
My God that's embarrassing. Trump accomplished so much for this country and for our allies around the world. So much. People either were not allowed to be told about the accomplishments or they have simply forgotten, drowned out in all of the other BS we're shoveled daily.
But to call Joe Biden competent is a gross misuse of the word. And here's the thing: Joe Biden has never been considered competent, not in 50 years of showing up. A bully, perhaps. A blowhard. Liar. Corrupt. Plagiarist. Liar (did I say that already?). These are some words that have been attached to Joe. Robert Gates as Defense Secretary for President Obama: "Biden has "been wrong on nearly every major foreign policy and national security issue over the past four decades." Barack Obama himself: "Don't underestimate Joe's ability to fuck things up." And these are two guys on his side, two guys he worked for and with.
The election was a sham. I won't take up anymore space on it here, but Joe got elected by friends and some 'lucky breaks' when everybody knew he had not campaigned, and was carefully managed on every statement. Still is. And he still has the great ability to fuck things up. On this, Obama was correct.
The bigger question is: Just what does it take to be a correspondent or commentator on CNN? I really want to know: Do these people believe what they say and write? Or are they just good 'team players' playing a role for Democrats and regressives in general. And once you 'act out' as a CNN team member, how does anybody in good faith hire you? I mean, would you want Cillizza as a reporter on your paper if you were looking for credibility?
The credentialed elite has its own idea of "competence," involving maintenance of a sophisticated and even-tempered demeanor; actual results don't so much enter into it. By the standard of results, Trump - even with the press, the universities, and most of his own government against him - was far more competent than this lot.
Using the expression Trump cultists is counter-productive.
Chuck, you ask a good question: sure the withdrawal has been terrible under Biden; would it have been any different under Trump? One possibility was suggested by the great Thomas Schelling in the '50s, what sometimes gets called the rationality of being irrational. Trump could have communicated to the Taliban something like, "We're getting out and we accept that you may eventually take over. But I can't stand to look bad. If you take over right away, I will be mightily pissed and will probably do something stupid to hurt you bad. Do you really want to risk that for a few months speed-up?"
Thank God for Donald Trump. But for him, we Democrats would have to take responsibility for something, someday. Joe Biden is old, and that day will never arrive for him.
Finding someone to blame is how we define "leadership."
I think - and I am not being sarcastic here - that Cillizza and others think of government competence in terms of delivering liberal programs. These not only make them feel relieved that the country is on a correct course, they also make more jobs for their sort of bureaucracy-heavy professions and grants for nonprofits. Taken that way, they viewed Trump as incompetent even when he was getting exactly what he set out to do whenever it was a wrong thing. Therefore, Biden would have to be more competent than that, even when he was bumbling around. Cillizza really does mean "competence," and he's not the only one. He just means something different by the word. I am not sure he is thoughtful enough to even notice. It's a feeling.
Such redefinitions of words are sometimes quite sly and intentional for propaganda purposes. But sometimes they are intellectually dishonest only in the sense of laziness of thought. Generally, the academics employ redefinition in the former way, journalists in the latter.
You know, they never say what it was that President Trump did that was incompetent. They only repeat what we lawyers call conclusory statements.
What, exactly are specific examples of failures by President Trump?
Please show your work....
My thanks to Critter at 7:10 for putting together the list that showcased Trump's competence and administrative successes. What a lazy knee jerk writer Cilliizza is to indulge in the snark about Trump being incompetent in "well, everything." If Trump could have been treated with just a tiny bit fairness by the press, our country would be so much better off because he would have won the election undisputedly and his policies could have continued.
They said Jimmy Carter’s big selling point was his competence. Then he got elected.
To me this is an attempt to rewrite things in a favorable light for the Administration, which has been an utter failure and the lack of said competence is glaring.
There is indeed no-one at the wheel and the Autopilot is broken.
And the whole line about 4 years of Trump incompetence is getting so old. They just do not like what he did. He was very competent in promoting the USA in the world and at home.
The current Administration and leadership is so anti American
On Meade's advice above, I googled Pompeo Newsweek August 17. The article contained this ridiculous statement from the former Secretary of State, "We would have demanded that the Taliban actually deliver on the conditions that we laid out in the agreement - including the agreement to engage in meaningful power sharing agreement - something that we struggled to get them to do but made clear it was going to be a requirement before we completed our requirement to fully withdraw,"
Seriously, dude? You were going to DEMAND it? How the h*ll were you going to force compliance? You haven't been able to force them to do anything for twenty years and they're stronger now than they've been for years. Oh, you were going to stay until they complied? How "credible" a threat is that?
And do you really think they were going to "engage in meaningful power sharing agreement"? Now, perhaps you could have cobbled together a power sharing agreement that wouldn't have fallen apart for a few months and would have given time for an orderly withdrawal. That would have been a lot better than what we have now. But expecting some sort of real power sharing is about as realistic as expecting Joe Biden to make Donald Trump his co-president.
I do think that the pitiable and baseless claims that Trump would have been worse are the first steps of people realizing that their eager, intentional willingness to be lied to will now translate into the pointless deaths of thousands of innocents. The better of the NeverTrumpers will feel guilt, the worst will stomp their feet even harder.
I think we should stop calling the retreat from Afghanistan a withdrawal. It was a rout.
Biden was sold as the adult in the room...the steady hand who has seen it all and was a competent and trusted Obama lieutenant. The Democrats were the party who knew how to govern, and Joe would unite the country as a president who would work for all citizens, not just Democrats.
So you're telling me it was all a lie?
"Well what would Trump have done differently?"
Get citizens and civilians out first, and the military out last.
Joe had to send in a mini-surge to protect the airport, and spend billions to bribe the bad guys to not slaughter everyone on the way out, or shoot down the planes as they left.
This isn't difficult to grasp.
As for a better plan, I don't know, its hard to plan when you are being presented with totally erroneous data. Perhaps Trump would not have been as credulous as Biden. And, Trump, unlike Biden, has a record of successful accomplishments.
Just saw an internet sleuth uncover the fact that one of the helicopters used in evacuating people from the embassy in Kabul was also used to evacuate people from the embassy in Saigon. How fitting.
“ Now, perhaps you could have cobbled together a power sharing agreement that wouldn't have fallen apart for a few months and would have given time for an orderly withdrawal.”
That’s the point, I think. Panetta’s delusions about the power of demands are just that. But the ability to kill Taliban interfering with an orderly withdrawal is what we’d have seen under Trump.
A "demand" by Pelosi mouthing words in Washington D.C. is one thing. A "demand" from a President who controls the military and says "we'll shoot the bejabbers out of you if you don't comply" is another thing. Of course that President has to be willing to back up his demands. This President is not willing.
The Six Stages of Biden:
Incompetence
Inadequacy
Impotence
Ineptitude
Incapacity
Incontinence
Low unemployment, a border under control, a roaring economy, no chi com Lab virus (for democratic benefit)
Geewiz - so much incompetence.
Trump and his people would not a f*ed it up like Biden. That is clear to all but those blinded by bad-faith hate-filled Trump-obsessed Trump-haters.
#Temujin - boom.
And then we have the question of controlling air access for the benefit of the US and coalition exit operations.
Here is an interesting story from the AP on July 5, six weeks ago: "US left Afghan airfield at night, didn’t tell new commander". The Afghan air field in question is Bagram, which has (or had) significant airlift capacity. I suppose Joe will say it had nothing with him, but maybe that nincompoop Gen. Milley can give us some reasons why this was a good move.
Another interesting question is how the British and EU nationals are going to get out.
Yup. Team Biden is looking bad here.
C’mon, people! Biden’s hands were tied, his back to the wall. He had no choice. He HAD to fuck-up.
I'm not from the US, so am probably missing a lot. But from where I sit, Trump did appear to have achieved a lot. He wasn't (isn't) personally my cup of tea, and he does come across as uncouth. But energy independence, much better control of immigration, peace in the Middle East, control of Iran, strong improvements in working class real incomes and helping get vaccines from idea to arms in 9 months seemed pretty good to me. So that makes him seem pretty competent. In what way is Biden competent? Does anyone really believe a Biden Administration would have delivered vaccines as quickly (or at all)? And under his watch, rollout has not been good. In the UK we focussed on cutting deaths, so strict focus on age first, as most likely to die. Why has roll out in US under Biden been relatively poor? Why were so called key workers and teachers given priority over older people? Why are so many schools shut? Why will those children that do attend school be made to wear masks? These are markers of incompetence, not competence.
Sorry, still shocked over Biden cutting and running and leaving friends and allies in the lurch.
So what were Trump's incompetences?
Blogger Chuck said..."Does anybody really think that this disastrous Afghanistan pullout would have happened under Biden but for the withdrawal process that Trump himself claims he made irreversible?"
Biden did a 180 on border policy, on energy policy, on cultural policy (e.g. CRT), on the Paris Accords, etc. I don't believe for a second Biden didn't want to withdraw but was forced to by Trump.
Blogger Chuck said..."And given the irreversible nature of Trump’s Afghanistan process, that it would have gone any better if Trump had been in charge of it? What exactly would Trump have done differently?"
The thing about history is there's only one. We'll never know. But we can speculate and I would say that Trump was a competent manager (see Critter's list of Trump's accomplishments @7:10). 1) Evacuate the vulnerable, 2) blow up what we can't have fall into enemy hands, 3) troops leave last; in that order. Doesn't seem like rocket science. So yeah, I think the withdrawal would have gone a lot better.
@some guy named Larry O'Connor
"Biden ignored and reversed Trump policies on abortion funding, border crossing, the wall, keystone pipeline, Paris climate accords, Iran nuke deal, taxes, Title IX transgender rules...
But is beholden to his policy on *checks notes* TROOP WITHDRAWAL IN AMERICA'S LONGEST WAR!?!?!"
The fact that Biden's *defenders* are arguing that he was helpless in the face of events set in motion by Trump thoroughly undermines any claim of competence.
The difference between Trump and Biden is that Trump wouldn't have been afraid to position the KILL TALIBAN switch at the DOD to "On".
He liked nothing more than to tell reporters on his way to Marine One how many of America's enemies had been killed while they slept.
For Slow Joe, that was a No Go.
LLR Chuck, can you provide an update on your search for an Afghan-bound mercenary group that you were going to join?
You were so vehement and hot and heavy about how we should be fighting to secure our people in Afghanistan and to continue protecting the women and girls over there and for such little "cost" (lives and injuries and treasure), I mean, like, over the top angry and vehement, that we should be doing everything in our power to stay in Afghanistan forever. And not just to keep all the women and girls safe, but to make Liz Cheney feel better about herself when she picks up her morning starbucks and has to deal with that terrible Washington DC traffic. I thought for sure you would take personal action on this front.
Keep us apprised as to how its going and good luck Li'l soldier! We're all rooting for you!
When Biden said, "the buck stops with me," he really meant, "I've said all I'm going to say on this subject. Let's talk about something else."
On to the next thing to screw up.
I wrote a comment here on Sunday along these lines:
Take a good hard look at what happened this weekend in Afghanistan- this is our federal government doing, apparently, the best that it can do. Remember this weekend when you start proposing these same sets of people and their similarly capable colleagues acquire power to do something new. This sort of incompetence is institutional now, and it isn't getting better, it is getting worse.
Someone else wrote an actual essay on the same topic, and I will try to dig it up at our Discord site (e-mail me if you are interested in joining). The writer pointed out that this is the same way we run our schools, our criminal justice system, even our "infrastructure" projects. It is incompetence all the way down.
Joe had several evacuation plans present to him. He rejected them all.
As far as Chris Cillizza goes, Trump's "incompetence" was that he didn't implement any disastrous left-wing policies. As Critter said, Trump's presidency was very successful. Even the COVID response was successful - he cleared the way for early deployment of the vaccines. It was the Democrats and the Lie-Stream Media who politicized the COVID response. They complained that he "had no plan" when he let states conduct the public health response, which is their responsibility. If he had taken over that responsibility, the Dems would have said he was a fascist tyrant. He's a Federalist, everything he's done is to reduce the power of the Federal government and disperse it to the states.
Joe had several evacuation plans present to him. He rejected them all.
As far as Chris Cillizza goes, Trump's "incompetence" was that he didn't implement any disastrous left-wing policies. As Critter said, Trump's presidency was very successful. Even the COVID response was successful - he cleared the way for early deployment of the vaccines. It was the Democrats and the Lie-Stream Media who politicized the COVID response. They complained that he "had no plan" when he let states conduct the public health response, which is their responsibility. If he had taken over that responsibility, the Dems would have said he was a fascist tyrant. He's a Federalist, everything he's done is to reduce the power of the Federal government and disperse it to the states.
Trump had the stench of success in business all over him. Of course the chattering classes and the lifelong GOPukes hated him for that and attempted to thwart his every move, and even the few old hands willing to work for him (Barr, notably) were Company men whose priority was to protect The Organs as much as possible, until the intruder could be got rid of.
Remember when Trump chewed the three- and four-stars out as babies and incompetents? And how the libs pretended to be outraged?
Good times.
The Democrat Party has three core competencies:
1) Stealing elections.
2) Undermining public safety, both domestic and foreign.
3) Looting the treasury.
An orderly withdrawal under fire is the most difficult military maneuver. That’s what our great military and intelligence leaders ought to be able to execute. So, either they screwed up big time, and should all be fired pronto, or President Biden wouldn’t let them do anything except cut and run, in which case he should be begging the American public for forgiveness. There’s no third alternative.
If everything Trump did or does is wrong - why would Biden stick with Trump's so-called plan?
Come on, man.
You mock Chuck at your own peril- he will fight you!
The leaks have already started from within the administration that they had almost no input into the withdrawal- that the plan, such as it was, was all Biden. Given how badly it went, I am almost inclined to believe such self-serving leaks.
Colonel Liz and Major Chuck in camo, leading the crack all-volunteer LLRLGBTQ Brigade against the father-rapers and mother-killers of the Taliban. It's an oddly stirring image.
When I hear that Biden's hands were tied by Trump's agreement, I laugh. Of all Trump's policies, that's the ironclad commitment? Riiight. He could have consulted with Pelosi about something theatrical, like publicly tearing the Doha Agreements into little pieces of paper and throwing them on the ground and spitting and stomping on them--to the delight of many. But Joe's too much the good old boy for that.
They talked about No Drama Obama; we now get Low-key Jokey Dokey Biden, the lifelong hack and grifter who rode the Mediocre White Man's Escalator to the Top.
Did anyone else notice how strained and forced and difficult it was for a certain LLR to criticize Biden, which was only done to establish a fake framework with which to attack Trump and 97% of the republican base?
Reminiscent of how strained and forced and clearly fake were the LLR's "complaints" (wink wink) about the dems during the Kavanaugh hearings when a certain poster at Althouse blog knew that if he didn't at least try and defend Kavanaugh minimally, then the entire LLR schtick would be blown out of the water.
Of course, this strained and forced defense of Kavanaugh only lasted about 36 hours and that was the last time our resident LLR voiced even tepid and airy light mild "criticism" of the dems.....which was also used only to setup an attack on Trump and 97% of republican voters.
Say what you want about our LLR, at least he's consistent in his Reid Hoffman-inspired activities.
If that Reid Hoffman sub-reference is a bit too vague for anyone, here's a link which explains it better: https://dailycaller.com/2020/12/21/fusion-gps-reid-hoffman-dossier/
Snip: "Hoffman apologized in late 2018 after The New York Times reported that he was a top funder for a project spearheaded by the tech firm New Knowledge, which created fake online personas aimed at influencing conservatives voters in Alabama’s Senate special election in December 2017."
Huh. Fake (conservative) online personas....aimed at influencing conservative voters.....hmmmmmm
"Incompetent"= Not following the Hive party line. (Translated from the English to "liberal" [i.e. statist]
Newspeak.
Narr said... "Major Chuck in camo, leading the crack all-volunteer LLRLGBTQ Brigade"
I'm pretty sure that if it is a "crack" brigade it will be lead by Hunter Biden...
"Remember when Trump chewed the three- and four-stars out as babies and incompetents?"
It seems now that he was right to do so.
"I’m hearing the Trump cultists saying"
Bless your heart.
"You are bad at your job."
You fail to understand, good sir, no straight man, no punchlines.
The Captain of the Titanic: "WOMEN AND CHILDREN FIRST! WOMEN AND CHILDREN FIRST!!!!"
President Biden: "Is this thing on?"
Blogger Mr Wibble said...
I figure we have two months before the Dems are pushing for the 25th. The question is: will the GOP play ball, and if so what concessions will they demand?
----
do GOP even need to participate? and if they are not foolish why would they?
Blogger Mr Wibble said...
I figure we have two months before the Dems are pushing for the 25th. The question is: will the GOP play ball, and if so what concessions will they demand?
----
do GOP even need to participate? and if they are not foolish why would they?
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