I'd appreciate it if all readers would participate in this poll, whether you comment regularly, occasionally, or not at all.
৪ এপ্রিল, ২০২১
I'm considering changing the approach to comments on this blog.
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«সবচেয়ে পুরাতন ‹পুরাতন 647 এর 601 – থেকে 647As the girl with the ponytail swishes into the Easter sunset, I wish I could tell her that it worked — her butt really is looking better.
"Squatter"
I guess those critiques regarding enabling Altbillies etc from some finally became too much. But I'm not sure "squatter" is the appropriate term.
Kinda rude, actually..but whatever.
We'll deal. I will start my own blog, but not under the current handle. Start from zero. Write for myself. I think the discipline of writing every day is important. Maybe gain some readers someday. Who knows? 'Witness' is a human need. A comment thread will not be a part of it.
I am just glad that this didn't happen prior to the year of isolation, I, and I am sure a lot of other people suffered through, because this blog really helped me get through it. I feel right now like my dog died, but that will pass too. Thank you for the work you did getting us through it.
It was great while it lasted. Thanks for the effort you put in.
Meade said...
MayBee said...
Happy Easter, Althouse. If I'm ever in Madison, I 'll email you and buy you a coffee.
—————
Now *that* is the spirit. Pitch perfect. We both have our email address in our profiles. Feel free. We’re real people with real lives and many of you we have met in person and enjoyed tremendously. If we don’t answer your email right away, please don’t despair— we’re likely on a mountain somewhere, on the road or at sea. Or just taking a nap.
Love God. Keep making America better and better. Call your mother. Be good.
Meade, always grateful to you for suggesting ice cream at Memorial Terrace when we visited back in 2016. Madison Man had some good "tourist" suggestions as well. I'm pretty sure I saw Althouse that night, but didn't want to impose. In the future, I'll at least try for the coffee if we ever return (which I hope to do when we have time to really do the Frank Lloyd Wright tours properly.
And. . . if you are ever in the Seattle area. . . .
What sloppy writing. Good/bad/whatever commenters can all leave a comment. What you meant is you may or may not publish them I presume, but your writing is too damn sloppy for anyone to know.
You will retroactively justify whatever you feel makes you look the best in hindsight.
I don't write (much) because no audience is worthy save God, and He knows my soul already.
I'm probably too late to be published, but I thought I would make one last comment.
I stopped following my sports message boards 6 months ago when they became too political. I stopped reading Drudge over a year ago. I don't have a FB account, but stopped reading my fiancee's feed a few months ago. I never did understand twitter. And now I will not be reading this blog but maybe once a day if at all.
My computer is now officially only useful for paying bills online.
In 20 years, the internet has gone from the most prolific form of free speech in history to one of the most restricted. Who saw that coming?
Personal comment:
I tend not to read places where I can't comment. It's the comments and the interaction that keeps me coming back
"I am unhappy with the way right-wing commenters have squatted here and made it unpleasant for other people. I don't want to spend my time maintaining a safe space for right-wingers. I'm not even a conservative. I'm just someone who wanted the full range of discussion, but this is not happening. This is a relatively small group of right-wingers bent on owning the space and excluding others. I am not here for that."
I'm sorry you see it that way.
What I see in the world is the Left driving out all "right wing" conversation any place it exists.
We right wingers aren't interested in "excluding" anyone.
We are interested it responding harshly to left wing lies and bullshit.
If non-right-wingers are "driven away" because they can't censor the right, and they can't handle having to actual provide facts, reason, and logic, instead of whinging about their feelings, you might properly consider that a failing of the Left, not the Right.
If you think you can both freely speck and write your mind, and attract people of the Left, you haven't been paying attention.
Best of luck to you. Once commenting goes, I'll check in occasionally, and see how well your grand experiment runs.
But I expect it will be an utter failure.
Because the Left won't tolerate you, no matter how many right wingers you get rid of
Ann Althouse said...
What is it that you are getting from the comments? I have a vision for this blog, and if the commenters are doing something inconsistent with what I mean it to be, then what is my motivation to provide this place for you?
What am I getting from the comments? Interaction. Testing my ideas and knowledge. Learning new things. And the ability to respond.
"I am forced to moderate because of spam and very destructive trolls. But aside from that, I am unhappy with commenters who jump right in and shit on the post and let it be known that they think I ought to have opened a discussion on the latest killing in the news."
So delete them.
Can you put in the ability to "flag" comments? We'll happily flag the spam for you. If you tell us "these people are trolls, and I don't want them around any more", we'll flag them, too (sucks if I end up as one).
Other than that? If you see a comment from some idiot trying to tell you what you should write about? Delete it if it pisses you off.
It's your blog. But if you don't want interaction, why are you wasting your effort publishing it?
Ann Althouse said...
"Finally the truth comes out. The right wing commenters presence is the problem. Their very presence makes people uncomfortable"/"Yeah but she's right. Y'all want a safe space for right wingers, and you want Ann to pay for it and moderate it for you. And when she doesn't, you become abusive. Half of you sound like a jilted ex-husband, simmering over that witch that did you wrong, all because a comment you don't like appeared. And that's on a good day."
Really? "all because a comment you don't like appeared"? No, that's what left wingers do.
What we right-wingers do is take apart the comment, and show Arturo that he's full of shit, again.
If that's the problem? Well, ok, I guess we should go away, and Let Althouse write for a smaller and smaller bubble of people who agree entirely with her
Ann Althouse said...
I've said over and over that I do this for the intrinsic reward to me, and yet you don't hear me.
Who is "you"? How does "some people write something stupid" become "you all are stupid and clueless"?
Are you writing to be read? Then people going away matters.
If you're not writing to be read, why are you spending effort publishing your thoughts? Kill teh blog and just write for yourself.
You're writing for "the right people", and wish the rest of us would go away?
You need only say so, and we will. Which would be sad, but I have a hard rule of never going where I'm not wanted.
Ann Althouse said...
"Prof. Althouse states she is concerned that the right-wingers may make this blog "unpleasant" for "progs." I'd guess, moreover, that she doesn't like that the cadre of belligerent, loud, and oafish right-wingers distort her blog such that it may be perceived as a right-wing blog space, and, more important, that their comments bring down the general tenor and quality of the conversation."
True.
Sorry to break it to you, but you don't toe the Left wing Pravda in all cases. that makes you a "right wing blog".
The commenters aren't needed for that. All that's needed is the intolerance of the Left
Now you'll never really know what Shouting Thomas thinks about your latest ruminations.....For what it's worth, you're responsive to what about 3% of your readers want in this blog.
For years AA provided clickbait for right wing commenters based on the Clintons being criminals, Trump being the world's greatest comic, and Biden being a candidate for memory care. Then the 2020 election finally exposed so many of them as loons. But she's now stuck with them.
I could not have said it better myself. I used to call her technique "chumming." Her audience would respond as predictably as would small children. Remarkable.
I haven't come here very often in the past 8 or so years, but every time I did, I wondered how she could stand reading through all the childish prattle in the comments, day after dreary day.
If Althouse made ten million dollars running this blog, she earned every dime of it.
I've been a daily reader since very close to the beginning -- I remember following links over from Instapundit frequently until I thought, Why am I waiting for Glenn Reynolds to tell me to read this blog?
I was a frequent commenter back then, too -- I was home with my babies then. They are all in their 20s now, and I rarely have the time to comment even when I think I have something to say. My profile pic is an Althouse photo, 'shopped by Althouse commenter Chip Ahoy; I have no intention of changing it, ever.
I've learned a lot here, from the Professor and the commenters. There's a good cross section of humanity here. It surprises me still how ugly people will allow themselves to be when they think they're posting anonymously. I completely understand Althouse's desire to be freed from all that ugliness.
Hope to run across the regulars out there on the 'net somewhere, someday. I'll be reading here as long as Althouse keeps writing.
Ironically amusing to read Althouse's declining the assistance of someone who actually did the project of scraping the entire blog, on the grounds of coming outside her circle of personal real-life acquaintances, so it can't really be trusted... when of course that is just as true of every single aspect of Blogger, too.
Familiarity breeds contempt
I don't think it's fair to blame this on right wingers. The commenters on the left are not able to keep up because their arguments almost always lack validity. Think Juan Williams on The Five. So they leave.
I never read a personal blog before this one. I ran a specialized blog about crime policy, and the goals and rules and restrictions were different — and frequently heartbreaking, like telling the sister of a murder victim she couldn’t express anger at her sister’s convicted killer because it could trigger an appeal in the sickness that passes for criminal law today. It took some time for me to understand the lighthearted terms of your blogging — that you were creating a puzzle to be pieced together from disparate themes, playfully. It’s your salon. I try to grasp the daily theme but it took me a while to find it. And it took me a while to stop reacting to people like Inga (who has had a great and raw recent loss). Maybe her venting is helping her. Maybe a lot of the grumbling is helping the grumblers. I wouldn’t pay them much mind. I don’t. But it’s not my house.
I for one will try to pay more attention to your aesthetics and to your themes. I also find many commenters delightful, including some of the crusty, angry ones. I’m 55: where else would I find people grumbling over Bellow and Updike? Nobody my age reads. Another reason I would hate to lose your daily company. But if it is a burden on you rather than an enjoyable exercise, then it’s not worth your time, right?
All the blog trolls are right-wing? You mean, like Chuck, Inga, readering and Arturo UI? IF all you want is like-minded people to respond in your blog, why is it here and not on Facebook or Twitter? I've enjoyed this blog for years, but apparently you haven't enjoyed my participation because I'm not sufficiently compliant with your wishes.
Goodbye Althouse, and all the commenters. If there is a site set up for Althouse commenters I would like to be included. I will miss all of you!
This is a sad day; I have followed this blog, almost every day for so long I can't remember exactly when I started. It was before Ann and Meade started reporting on the insurrection at the Madison Capitol and I appreciated the critical insights into the craziness developing in American politics (I'm watching from the other side of the Atlantic) and later, how this was applied in taking Donald Trump seriously but not literally and in not accepting that Joe Biden is just a regular guy with no dark side. But the best posts, which have this blog a unique character, were the quirky observations on non-political aspects of life. I'll still be visiting to read the political and non-political observations of our hostess, but I'll be sorry they won't be filled out by comments, even if the back and forth of certain commenters on some posts became tedious.
On moderation, I have always been quite surprised at the level of personal abuse allowed, even against Ann herself. I'm a long way from Inga politically, but really, some of the personal abuse directed at her? I always assumed therefore that the moderation was extremely light, but then I don't know what was filtered out, and I suppose just scanning through the comments could take a couple of hours a day. I understand that this is a thankless burden, sad though I am that Ann will no longer assume it.
I guess this is the last of my infrequent posts, so farewell all, especially Bruce Hayden, Yancey Ward, David Begley and Dust Bunny Queen, chroniclers of America's descent into a post-Enlightenment age.
After hearing what you have to say about the comments and some commenters, if I were you, I'd delete the comments.
Well, I am quite late to this post and comments, so I am probably wasting my time and effort, but what the heck. If I understand your comments, Althouse, you don’t like the tilt of your commenters’ opinions. The majority of comments don’t align with your opinions and that is making you look like your commenters to people you deal with in real life. You are suffering real world consequences for giving “right wingers” a platform, but not for giving left wingers a platform. That is a very difficult situation.
However, I would ask you to consider the case of a character in Solzhenitsyn’s Cancer Ward, Shulubin. He starts out as a lecturer at a prestigious university. Then the purges come and he agrees with everything and denounces colleagues to save his job. It doesn’t work, so he agrees to be an assistant to keep in the good graces of the authorities so he can feed his family. Then the purges come again and again he goes along to save his position, but again he’s demoted. Now he teaches how to teach his subject. Then the same thing happens again until he finds himself working as a librarian where his main job is to quietly burn unapproved books. By that time he has succeeded in getting his kids a university education, but they are estranged from him. His wife is dead. It’s just him and his job, burning science texts that some crackpot in the Soviet regime has determined are not sufficiently communist.
I may be over reacting to our times, but we seem to be at the point where ideology is creeping into everything, even science, just like it did in the Soviet Union under Stalin. Your real world friends have already judged you on the basis of your blog. I doubt they will adjust their views just because you make your comments go away.
Best of luck to you. Hope I’m wrong and you are able to enjoy real world community with those you love and who love you in return.
Well, this is why we can't have nice things. I was an occasional commenter (even met Ms. Althouse and had a scotch with her at a blogger meetup on Monroe Street way back in the days of the fish eye lens), and always loved reading the comments. The comments here, as at other places, remind me of a place in Wisconsin Dells that I used to take my kids to when they were little. You could buy a bucket of sand, and you would use some water to sift through it to find some hidden gems and then a local staffer would let you know what sort of gem you just found. Sifting through the bucket of comments you would always find some gems, but most of it gets washed away. The ratio is no doubt why our hostess has pulled the plug and I don't blame her. Nobody wants their place to look like a dump. It was fun, but it is time for her, and us, to move on. And that's just fine.
So, AA felt moderating the comments took too much of her time so she created a poll and asked for the views of her readers? For what purpose? The majority of those responding wanted to leave it as is, but AA knew that meant devoting a lot of her day to monitoring the posts.
She should have just announced the change and given her reasons for that change. Those commenting and their views actually had no bearing on her decision because it appears the decision had already been made.
Ann, I hope the changes you made reduces the stress in your life. We all have too much stress as it is and anything we can do to reduce it can only be good..
Personally I don't care what you do with comments, it's your blog, do what works for you but apply your standards equally across the board. Personally I think leaving it the way it is is fine but moderating out some of the obvious trolls is a good thing. I read but rarely comment anymore because the comment format here completely lacks nesting and does not work well for any kind of real conversation to take place.
What I've found on the web is that left leaning liberal* bloggers eventually shut off their comments or hypocritically moderate out opposing points of view from their blogs because they don't appear to be able to take criticism of what they write and/or they don't want their ideological blog bubble to be pierced by opposing points of view. Left leaning bloggers have shown me that they are quite intolerant of opposing points of view, it's as if left leaning bloggers are out to get "likes" from like-minded people and not engage in actual dialogue. Madison Wisconsin’s Liberal** Democrat ex-mayor Dave Cieslewicz blog Yellow Stripes & Dead Armadillos is a good example of what I'm talking about; I talk about it in my blog post Where Did All The Classic Liberals* Go? A couple more intolerant Liberal** bloggers is Madison's Gregory Humphrey of Caffeinated Politics and Chicago's Mark Draughn of Windy Pundit.
There is a hypocritical pattern of intolerance emanating from the liberal* left, don't be like the hypocritical liberal* left.
*liberal: adjective 1. willing to respect or accept behavior or opinions different from one’s own; open to new ideas. 2. relating to or denoting a political and social philosophy that promotes individual rights, civil liberties, democracy, and free enterprise.
**Liberal: noun supporter of political policies that are socially progressive and promote social welfare e.g. Democrat.
First and foremost, I want to say thank you to Althouse, and to say that the decision is understandable.
I’ve enjoyed the interaction here, like a cafe with some fun (and some annoying) characters. It hasn’t been as good since the last time comments were shut down because a few really clever and creative people never returned. Plus, the political and social climate now has led to polarization and increased vitriol.
I have a few more negative thoughts but I’ll try to keep most of that to myself in an attempt to avoid shitting on your place. I do want to say that it seems to me that the kind of readership you desire has become vanishingly small (I get that you’ve accepted this might be so.) It certainly feels to me like it’s only right wingers these days who desire freedom and diversity of thought, but they don’t reflect back your cultural preferences so it’s not enjoyable for you.
Again, that’s understandable but from the point of view of readers who are currently experiencing the increasingly hostile environment for conservative views, it feels as though you’re abandoning the idea that the solution to bad speech is more speech. The rest of the left has already abandoned that idea and won’t converse with conservatives, so now on your blog you have been feeling that your voice is the only one speaking from the left of center and keeping that balance isn’t what you want to spend time doing.
Fair enough and I wish you and Meade well.
I’ll miss a lot of commenters’ insights and especially the incisive wit of Bob Boyd.
I’m sleeping later already.
So long, Bruce, Yancy
As with Althouse, I didn't always agree with you, but I always found you worth reading
Wow - 632 comments, so this one will probably not ever get read, but here goes.
I was not reading Althouse yesterday (Easter) when this post came out - I was busy with family activities, so I didn’t get the chance to comment/vote at that time.
I come to read the Althouse blog both for Althouse AND for the comments. I read for Ann because of the (often) interesting articles she posts, and frequently (but not always) her personal viewpoints on said articles. I come for the comments because 1) it’s great to get alternate viewpoints on any given subject, 2) I like a sounding board of voices to compare my own thoughts against on a topic, and 3) it’s interesting to follow a social group of folk like Althouse commenters - they tend as a group to be more witty, knowledgeable and reflective that most commenters in other comment sections (with exceptions, of course). It’s kinda of like a Facebook community without all the peer pressure to show civility bullshit. I also love the ‘no censorship’ aspect of the comments section, although I can see the point of having moderation to prevent trolls from destroying it or having constant flame wars (is that still a saying?)
So, between these two driving forces for following Althouse (Ann and her comment section), I put slightly more weight on having the comment section. If it goes away, I know I will be following the blog a lot less (and I’ve been following this blog since 2005; only actively commenting since 2020 - encouraged to do so by the COVID lack of social outlets).
Wow - 632 comments, so this one will probably not ever get read, but here goes.
I was not reading Althouse yesterday (Easter) when this post came out - I was busy with family activities, so I didn’t get the chance to comment/vote at that time.
I come to read the Althouse blog both for Althouse AND for the comments. I read for Ann because of the (often) interesting articles she posts, and frequently (but not always) her personal viewpoints on said articles. I come for the comments because 1) it’s great to get alternate viewpoints on any given subject, 2) I like a sounding board of voices to compare my own thoughts against on a topic, and 3) it’s interesting to follow a social group of folk like Althouse commenters - they tend as a group to be more witty, knowledgeable and reflective that most commenters in other comment sections (with exceptions, of course). It’s kinda of like a Facebook community without all the peer pressure to show civility bullshit. I also love the ‘no censorship’ aspect of the comments section, although I can see the point of having moderation to prevent trolls from destroying it or having constant flame wars (is that still a saying?)
So, between these two driving forces for following Althouse (Ann and her comment section), I put slightly more weight on having the comment section. If it goes away, I know I will be following the blog a lot less (and I’ve been following this blog since 2005; only actively commenting since 2020 - encouraged to do so by the COVID lack of social outlets).
It's been fun and illuminating. All the best to you and to Meade.
I foresee a precipitous drop off in traffic. I've enjoyed coming here several times a day. Farewell, Ann. Farewell, all.
A couple more reflections-
Just now got to reading the Easter post and realized that there are several female commenters I’ll really miss. Michelle Dulak Thomson, MaxedOutMama, Joan, Freeman Hunt, MayBee, DBQ, Leslie Graves, AnnieC, mockturtle, and IHMMP, probably others whose handles aren’t immediately coming to mind. I guess it’s noteworthy because IRL I relate better to men than women and although I could be wrong I get the sense that the female commenters here are like that too.
Second thing is that I see irony in the recent post about the artist who left paint buckets out in front of his painting.
Third thing is that I need to either start exercising and doing productive things more or find another excuse not to. Hoping that after this last lazy morning of getting a couple of comments in that I’ll find the will to do the former and not the latter.
What an extraordinary run this blog has had, and will continue to have for awhile, even without comments. I've been coming here since very, very early days.
Althouse's commitment to free speech has been astonishing, all the more so these days. If commenting has created a space that doesn't fit her vision, for whatever reason now, that's entirely up to her. Never mind the unpaid labor of moderating. I had a fraction of a fraction of the amount of her comments when I was running a boutique blog of some minor note years ago, and it drove me nuts.
Other than that I'll say the same thing about Althouse that I've said about Instapundit--she is not a public utility.
Thanks for everything Althouse!
P.S. If it matters to anyone weighing this, I'm a righty.
Ha! Ha! Ha!
Ann spent the last six years or so cultivating her Althouse Hillbillies. She has only now realized that these internet zombies have overrun and marginalized her blog. She is now bored with her little hillbillies.
So, she now wants you off her porch because she is sick and tired of having to throw red meat to you.
Good bye Althouse Hillbillies! You have been CANCELED!!!
(Ann, I told you years ago that you were painting yourself into a corner that you would come to regret. I am glad to see you are finally draining the cesspool that you created. Good job!)
Wow, momentous decision. Congrats. I don't remember how I discovered your blog, Ann, but I have continued to visit on most days the last few years. I enjoy the semi-random walk of the topics you select from a Midwestern/Wisconsonite perspective and I must admit I do jump into the comments, probably to confirm that I am the crazy one! Ha.
I'm an infrequent commenter here, so no issues really in that regard. But, I think I will miss some of the funny banter in the discussions, but not the back and forth that seemed personal.
How about keeping comments on for the photography? That's probably where I have commented the most.
I'm looking forward to see how the email feedback/post updates will work. Not having to go to comments will save me a little bit of time each day, but now I will have to check prior posts for any possible updates. Anyway, all good, and good luck with the new processes!
[BTW, I voted for "moderate, post most"]
Although I never comment, as a former student of yours, and as a huge, huge fan of your blog, I wanted to comment that it's pretty amazing how connected I am/have been to your blog and, secondarily, to the comments. I have learned many things by reading comment exchanges. I have seen the terrible trolls who have populated the section from time to time over the years. Although I will miss them, it is your curation, analysis and authorship of this blog which keeps me returning for years. I look forward to seeing how this new stage develops.
Thanks for the gift you gave us all. I learned a lot and had a lot of fun. Godspeed from Omaha.
Welp.
Thanks for the good times, Althouse! I know you will miss some of the commentators; I'm pretty sure I'm not one of them. Wish I knew where Laslo and a few others were going to go.
I understand that comments had to go, if for no other reason than to prevent the Google Gestapo from shutting you down.
So long, and thanks for all the fish, or the sunrises as the csse may be.
Last year, writers that include Matt Taibbi, Casey Newton, Glenn Greenwald, and Matt Yglesias have taken their wares to SubStack; new ventures in email newsletters have become a part of Bulwark's fine blog and disgruntled National Review writers have bailed out to join The Dispatch started by Jonah Goldberg and Stephen Hayes on (you guessed it) SubStack.
But most significantly a SubStack article from Simon Owens outlining the addition of Andrew Sullivan's "The Dish" writings to the Substack offerings sounds like a model that Ann Althouse could adopt. Andrew Sullivan has bailed from the "must write multiple articles on a daily basis" to writing a multi-topic email publication a few times a week. You already have the following to succeed in a new venture as Sullivan is doing. Five bucks a month or $50 per year and SubStacK gets 85% of year one revenues. After that 90% of subscription income goes to the writer.
The last comment.
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