Said one guy quoted in "Oklahoma Diner Customers Tell CNN They Won’t Get Vaccinated Even If Trump Told Them to: Why Listen to a ‘Liberal New Yorker’ Like Him?" (CNN).
I'm making a new tag for this: "Trumpism without Trump."
Hypothesis: Trump the Man was only ever a man stepping into The Idea of Trump, and that man can step out again, or he can try to stay in but not measure up, and somebody else can take on the Trump role and become real embodiment of The Idea of Trump while Trump the Man melts back into his ordinary human life, and the Trumpsters can continue as true believers whether there is a person in the role of Trump or not.
Posts
179 comments:
Who is John Galt?
Who is Donald Trump?
Trump without Trump is not new. Ann Coulter has been saying so for a while now.
This is just part of Trump's vaunted cross-party appeal--he's a liberal New Yorker as well!
Who is Donald Trump?
We are.
You're overthinking this.
Trump is Trump.
He's an opportunist and a businessman.
He saw an opportunity to run for president and took it.
Whichever Republican wishing to win that office should be taking notes.
No more country club bullshit.
No more country club bullshit.
Indeed. But I'll bet JEB! is waiting for the nod.
Werent the dems who were saying they wouldnt take the shot cuomo harris et al.
JEB is yesteryear's FLA Governor for President; DeSantis is tomorrow's.
"Trump is Trump/He's an opportunist and a businessman/He saw an opportunity to run for president and took it."
But that's exactly why Trump is NOT Trump!
Anti-vaxxers say the darndest things.
Or they lied to CNN. For years, I was told that I needed to stop believing everything Fox News says although I never watched Fox News. When Trump became President, those same people started saying that Trump was the ONLY reason I believed what I believed despite my not supporting the man. I got to the point long ago where I realized what I actually said didn't matter.
True hypothesis. The need for Trump preceded Trump and he stepped nimbly into the breach.
There are few out there who want to out Trump, Trump.
Ron Johnson, Ted Cruz, Tucker Carlson, and some of the Congress critters like the QAnon chicks and Hawley to name a few.
Maybe it's NOT Trump?
Maybe (just MAYBE) the dogs don't like the dogfood?
So there is "Trumpism without Trump." I'm not disagreeing; I think Althouse is onto something with this very fine blog post.
What I am looking forward to is "Conservatism without Trump." And more to the point, "The GOP without Trump."
Because "Trumpism without Trump" sounds like the same old dumb bullshit. Gubmint vaccines are bad. (Trump used to suggest that all childhood vaccines might be dangerous and cause autism, not that Trump would know anything about, or anyone with, autism.) "The media" is our problem. Trade deals are all terrible. Mexico and Chine stole all the jobs.
Trump the Man was only ever a man stepping into The Idea of Trump, and that man can step out again
I have a friend who says he's not going to get the vaccine. He's a 43 year old Trump supporting heavy smoker with a long time liberal girlfriend who isn't particulary happy about his obstinace on the issue. I'm pretty sure he just doesn't particularly like being told what to do by people he zero respect for, but I'm going to ask him for clarification this weekend.
Most non-conservatives still don't get it - it was never about Trump himself, or the policies he personally favored. It was that he unabashedly loved America, and was willing to actually fight against the entities that were (are) harming America. Characteristics that are all too rare in today's leadership.
"But that's exactly why Trump is NOT Trump!"
We'll have to talk about this one over a drink...
If what you're saying is that the 'real' Trump was subordinated by the 'new' Trump that won the presidency, then maybe you have something.
But they are still the same guy.
He sees opportunities and fills the void.
And I truly believe that his positions on immigration and China and foreign policy are sincerely held.
It was akin to Reagan's 'I didn't leave the Democrat party...'
“Trumpsters can continue as true believers whether there is a person in the role of Trump or not.”
True believers? Surely you jest! I’m sure there are some just as there were Obots. Many of us, however, supported other Republicans against him in the primary, choosing him over Hillary the Grifter in the general.
His policies and accomplishments came as a pleasant surprise and account for our support in 2020. I believe Trump will be too old to be President after a 2024 run just as QuidProJoe is too old now. Republicans will be hard pressed to find anyone with his courage and commitment to run in 2024.
As for “true believers,” what kind of fanatic votes for a feeble-minded grifter and a sexual opportunistic muddled to occupy our highest offices?
Trump recommended every therapeutic, hcq down the ones that murdered old people (and even disabled ones) to rapt applause were democrats
Chuck, as usual, states the Never Trump coda. Trump did what no other Republican was willing to do for several reasons. One, he was rich and not in thrall to donors. Two, he had been thinking about this for years. Like Reagan, he had thought out most of his policies long before running for office. Three, he was not intimidated by the usual crowd. He knew them all and their limitations. Four, there was a need. The Tea Party had been savaged by the GOPe. The former Perot voters (I was one) needed someone who knew what they needed.
His limitations were just as serious. He thought people in government tended to be honest and patriotic. Big mistake. He thought he could trust businessmen like Tillerson. He thought he could trust pseudo-patriotic military like HR McMasters. That one fooled me, too. Every man's hand was against him in DC.
Still, he accomplished a lot with zero help.
Chuck - you are firmly in camp D now. So - you can stay there. Have fun.
If Trump doesn't run again in 2024, the Republican Party had better find his political clone. If the party runs someone that Chuck likes and supports, they are going to lose even if they stop the Democrats from cheating next time. The demographics of the country literally require the Republicans to win at least one of the following states- Wisconsin, Michigan, or Pennsylvania. And with Arizona's Californication well in advance, they will have to win two of the three.
Just look at the state trends since the 2004 election- the Republicans have lost Colorado, Nevada, New Hampshire, and Virginia in every election since then. All four of those states now have Democratic Senators only, and three of the four have Democratic governors, and New Hampshire only has a Republican because he is a Sununu and ran with Trump at the top of the ticket. Additionally, the Republican edge in states like Georgia and North Carolina is diminishing with time as those states fill up with northeast immigrants and immigrants from Mexico and central America- the same is happening in Texas. At present trends, with a standard Republican candidate like Mitt Romney or Jeb Bush, Georgia will be lost permanently by the 2028 election and North Carolina will follow. And no Republican other than Trump could have won Ohio by even 3%, not to mention winning Iowa.
Trump showed the Republican Party the policies it has to support to even have a chance to win now and in the future, but are they listening? I doubt it.
"Republicans will be hard pressed to find anyone with his courage and commitment to run in 2024."
Republicans in 2016 were opposed to him, with his courage and commitment and in 2020, many appeared to be happy to see him go. I doubt they'll be looking for a replacement.
Chuck linked: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/03/17/trump-tucker-cold-war-has-begun/
Perhaps you could summarize because I'm not behind their bray wall
Schools and Covid study:
https://www.thecollegefix.com/professor-quits-researching-covid-because-of-hostility-over-his-findings-about-low-threat-to-children/
And the same people who closed the schools are telling us that masks make a difference.
True answer:
"We're never going to listen to a damn thing ANYONE in the government says ever again"
And for good reasons.
I got vaccinated but not because I trust in the government.
Figure it out, legacy media. It's not hard.
Indeed tillerson mattis and mcmaster were on the phone so often to haberman, its a womder they got anything done, remember they went after the first cdc chief that actually wanted it to track epidenics not obesity nor gun violence, but thats not the mission.
My guess is Romney will be the 2024 Nominee. The dems will make sure of it.
None of the 2016 Republican candidates other than Trump are fit for the job. They are all tried and tested losers.
I have a few ideas for who I might consider a strong ticket.
None of them contain Trump. (His age and the fact that he does not need more abuse)
Tim Scott and Ron DeSantis for starters.
You always know who the left fear most based on Drudge's bashing of them. Like the Chi Coms - Drudge is asshole.
The lancet jama the university of mi nesota all collaborated to libel hcq in fqvor of remdesvir who paid lavishly and dodnt yield better results.
More reason to trust the government - COvid death total shenanigans in Illinois:
https://www.thecentersquare.com/illinois/coroner-questions-illinois-covid-19-death-tally-seeks-statewide-audit/article_cda3a6c0-874e-11eb-bb70-57260686e2f0.html
The person vs. the persona of Trump. What he said and how he talked vs. what he did (or, better, what was done in his name). Taking him literally or taking him seriously.
Seems like those themes haven't changed much since the day he came down the escalator.
The lancet jama the university of minnesota all collaborated to libel hcq in fqvor of remdesvir who paid lavishly and dodnt yield better results.
Inga asserts QAnon, without evidence. Those little green people vexing her sleep!
In today's mindset, the R's could win the WH with an econ-smart, no-nonsense, badass woman.
It would be glorious to see Trump win in 2024 - for revenge! sweet revenge.
You think the cheating was bad in 2020? ugh. Of course if the left pass HR1 - 'the Democrat cheat-to-win-forever no more ID ever again' law it's over anyway. Yancey is correct.
Here is the simple fucking math for dullards like Chuck. Even if Trump had won Georgia and Arizona, it would not have been enough to even get a tie in electoral votes- he would have had to have Wisconsin, the most Republican of the three states I mentioned in a comment above, just to get that tie. No other Republican today could have even won Iowa in this election, and Ohio would have been doubtful. As things stand today, the Democrats start any presidential election with an assured 250 electoral votes- Republicans start with 197, and the GOP has no chance if they lose Florida and Ohio in any election.
Chuck, Trump's efforts brought us a coronavirus vaccine much faster than anyone thought possible, and Pelosi and Harris told people not to trust it. So anyone who's truly pro-vaxx voted for Trump last time. Who did you vote for?
You people are funny. You have to give Trump 100% credit for a vaccine he refused to promote and you won't take. Is there any pandemic ball you people won't drop?
Ann Althouse said...
"Trump is Trump/He's an opportunist and a businessman/He saw an opportunity to run for president and took it."
But that's exactly why Trump is NOT Trump!
Or, rather, Trump is not Trumpism, which isn't really Trumpism anyway in that the movement predates him. (Interesting that Blogger spell check recognizes "Trumpism" as a word.)
Inga is a big fan of Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden's crooked family. Gross.
It’s kind of like the “Caesar” title from ancient Rome.
Meanwhile fredo cuomos wife was actually injecting herself with chlorine solution, while he was a one man vector as far as the hamptons
Howard said...
You people are funny. You have to give Trump 100% credit for a vaccine he refused to promote and you won't take. Is there any pandemic ball you people won't drop?
What's your evidence that vaccine hesitancy is a right-wing thing? It's never been before. (Both parts of your 2nd sentence are typical Howard BS too.)
Did they bring up Kamala Harris telling people not to trust the vaccine? I kid, I kid, this isn’t news, it’s propaganda.
"Ron Johnson, Ted Cruz, Tucker Carlson, and some of the Congress critters like the QAnon chicks and Hawley to name a few."
-- Look at Inga's casual sexism. The men? They get names and agency. The women? They're just chicks.
I like Tucker Carlson. He is one of the very few insightful and honest commentators in media.
Rachel Maddow is a liar. She is the left's Q-anon. Rachel Maddow cradled into bed with Hillary Clinton and her fake Russian collusion hoax and lost all credibility.
Chicklit - indeed.
'If Trump says to take it, I'm not taking it' - said Kamala about the vaccine.
So its a typical squirrel column, meanwhile palm and co, cant figure how tondistribute the thing, quelle surprise.
DeSantis seems to have the grit to be a post-Trump President, with love of country and freedom, and an ability to balance and trade off competing vectors. Plus as a politician he has better knowledge of the scumbags in the mix.
As a couple people mentioned above, we need a USA-loving President - one who puts what’s good for normal law abiding citizens at the heart of their policies and initiatives. That is Trumpism, to me.
I don't want DeSantis to run because that means the crazy woman that was fired in Florida will be a speaker at the DNC convention, and I'd really rather we stop rewarding people like her.
You know of courst that when Joe Biden went to Iraq for Obama to negotiate a status of forces agreement, he got us kicked out of the country, but not before securing his brother James a half billion dollar contract to rebuild the very homes that Joe voted to bomb. But Trump stood up for himself on Twitter, which was unforgivable.
You also know that when Biden went to China to negotate over the Spratley Islands, he took his son Hunter on Air Force Two and while China told the US to pound sand in the negotiations, it wasn’t before giving Biden’s son a multi billion dollar sweetheart deal on a hedge fund.
No doubt that both Hunter and James were kicking back to Joe somehow, just like Hunter whined about in the IMs found on his laptop.
But Trump was like the evil bear in the French proverb, that struck back when attacked.
How many lies has Inag pushed here that have been shown to be lies? Too many to count. Why do you guys waste your time with her?
The stalker chick, yes theyll give her a stage regardless.
To my mind only one other current politician reminds me of The Donald, and that would be AOC.
I hope Chuck is getting a kickback from the Biden crime family for his steadfast support.
She also happens to be patent fraud,
Not that idiot, as a proud latino she embarasses me so does becerra mayorkas and gascon on the west coast.
“Look at Inga's casual sexism. The men? They get names and agency. The women? They're just chicks.”
Ha! I knew someone would say that. I couldn’t remember their names and was too lazy to look them up, plus I was texting my daughter at the same time. But Matthew saw an opportunity and took it, whatever. Marjorie Taylor Greene and the other one, whatshername, the dark haired one.
"The Idea of Trump" will need a clear definition before we can begin testing your hypothesis.
Like I wrote last night in a comment- the vaccine isn't going to stop COVID any more than the flu vaccines have stopped the flu. At best, you vaccinate healthcare workers regularly with updates and you vaccinate the institutionalized elderly (but understand vaccination for them is often worthless as anything other than a placebo), but it should not be used on children or pretty much anyone under the age of 50, and it definitely should not be mandated by law.
Howard, I think all of us Trumpist fully supported Operation Warpspeed, and that operation might not have happened without Trump. I actually remember what a lot of Democrats said about it in the media- that it wouldn't work, and Congress actually did next to nothing to support it- the Executive Branch funded it out of other operations, not direct Congressional appropriations- much like the Wall was funded. I also remember Trump promoting the effort relentlessly all of last year, and he has advised people publicly to get vaccinated. I don't know what else you Democrats want him to do. The leaders on record encouraging people to to not get vaccinated appear to have all been Democrats just before the November election. In any case, the biggest anti-vax people have always been Democrat voters, even today.
You take a vaccine if the risk of not taking is higher than the risk of taking it. With these particular vaccines, the RNA ones, we are doing the clinical trials the same time as we are doing the wide-spread rollout. The vaccines are probably safe, but that is not certain to the degree we would normally know with a real phase III level trial with at least 2 years of followup. Everything is a risk in life, choose according to your best knowledge of your own risk profile.
"But she would not take any vaccine on the word of the Trump Administration alone.”
You mean the CDC and the FDA, which was part of the Trump Administration? All the while the FDA was delaying approval, pausing the process to the day after the election to avoid helping Trump, so they probably felt hurt by her comments, when they were fighting so hard for the cause.
The progs have done everything to incentivize contagion while preventing needed and inexpensive therapeutics they hired slavitt who was wrong abput cuomo feig ling who sent his kids to austria palm who screwed up handling in the state
Biden and his family are crooks.
I mean, it is what it is. People on the right are used to Conservative women having their agency and independence questioned or outright denied by people on the left. So, when a perfect example is provided, it's an easy point to score. Be Better, as they say.
Chuck
That's why I didn't use direct quote marks, you moron.
There is a problem with rolling this out during the pandemic itself- antigenic escape is a real thing, but if it is a problem, we can't solve it now- we are committed to this path.
California and New York State were making noise that they were going to do a secondary validation of the vaccine if it was approved by a Trump Administration FDA. Nothing changed at the FDA and suddenly the vaccine was golden. All that changed was that a successful vaccine no longer could help Trump politically.
How many lives was it worth to get Biden’s crime family back in business? The US has been doing very well with the vaccine and our situation is greatly improving on the strength of decisions made by the Trump Administration, while the EU, which has been following preffered Democrat policies, is still mired in it.
Europe has almost hit a million deaths. is CNN covering that? Naah!
https://graphics.reuters.com/world-coronavirus-tracker-and-maps/regions/europe/
Seriously, doesn’t it seem like the day Europe hits a million deaths, that should be a huge story on all of the newscasts? Except that it would only serve to vindicate Trump, which is a no no, which is why the milestone will pass unremarked in the US media.
“I mean, it is what it is. People on the right are used to Conservative women having their agency and independence questioned or outright denied by people on the left. So, when a perfect example is provided, it's an easy point to score. Be Better, as they say.”
You really do take yourself too seriously. Texting my daughter was more important to me at the time, than looking up the names of the female congresswomen. Scoring points may be of utmost importance to you when commenting online, but it’s not my top priority.
Most people either have preexisting or naturally acquired immunity and do not require nor are they helped, and may be harmed, by a vaccine. There are also several inexpensive, effective, low-risk treatments to mitigate disease progression and normalize community immunity.
This is just part of Trump's vaunted cross-party appeal--he's a liberal New Yorker as well!
Who is Pro-Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness. Perhaps he had an epiphany. This would also explain Ginsburg's choice to delay retirement.
Cnn has lost 47% of their prime demographic since january 20th
It’s going to be increasingly difficult to deny that conservatives, at least about half of them are now in the anti vaxxer camp.
Hahaha. What a troll. These guys know how to work CNN.
This vaccine is causing problems. it makes some people sick. Nothing new with vaccines. One person dead in Utah. Issues in Europe with blood clots.
Everyone has a choice to make and healthy skepticism and personal health issues play a role.
The Shingles vaccine made my own doctor REALLY sick.
"I never really thought of the CDC or the FDA as belonging to Trump”
So you have your own private definitions of words like “Trump Administration” and you expect all of the people hearing Harris’s warning to not take the Trump vaccine to share your idiosyncratic definitions, and therefore to totally ignore her warnings, which were irresponsible politicization of the virus.
It doesn’t even bother you that the FDA paused the approval process until the day after the election, puting samples into storage instead of testing them, presumably so the good results wouldn’t leak.
How many lives was it worh to get Trump out of office?
At that time, the companies decided to stop having their lab confirm cases of Covid-19 in the study, instead leaving samples in storage. The FDA was aware of this decision.
https://www.statnews.com/2020/11/09/covid-19-vaccine-from-pfizer-and-biontech-is-strongly-effective-early-data-from-large-trial-indicate/
The samples came out of storage on Wednesday, the very day after the election.
Notably Republican anti-vaxxer Kamala Harris did finally come around.
Trumpsters? Like Teamsters (not that there is anything wrong with that)?
I prefer Trumpistas.
So if Trump does not run in 2024 - no one else will be accepted or good enough?
OK - what a standard. The left must love this. WE often let the left pick our candidate anyway - so what the hell?
I guess we deserve our corrupt leftist Biden-Potemkin globalist corruption.
"It’s going to be increasingly difficult to deny that conservatives, at least about half of them are now in the anti vaxxer camp.”
You seem to have zero problem denying that Kamala Harris was out front on the movement.
I just got my first shot this morning. Pfizer. The process was remarkably smooth and well organized. Hoping neither my wife or myself have any side-effects, but I think that's unlikely. I'll let you know if I wake up miserable tomorrow.
I know I'm going straight to Q-Anon Maddow for my vaccine information.
"Notably Republican anti-vaxxer Kamala Harris did finally come around.”
The very day it became politically beneficial. But nobody will question her change of heart as anything but honest!
Blogger Howard said...
You people are funny. You have to give Trump 100% credit for a vaccine he refused to promote and you won't take. Is there any pandemic ball you people won't drop?
I'm trying to stay away from the crazies but two lies in one comment is a bit much.
A lot of days Howard doesn’t have it. Sometimes he gets off a good shot, so we keep reading him.
"It’s going to be increasingly difficult to deny that conservatives, at least about half of them are now in the anti vaxxer camp."
So, Inga, what did you make of the Gallup poll that showed that in January only 49% of health care workers were intending to be vaccinated? Would you say they are anti-vaxxers? Conservatives all, are they?
https://news.gallup.com/poll/328688/front-line-workers-no-keener-others-vaccine.aspx
The amazing thing about the mRNA Pfizer vaccine is that because of the technology used to create it, the vaccine could have been put into production and use immediately, without testing for either efficacy or safety, had COVID-19 been a really nasty bug. The designers knew their genetic snippet of mRNA would have efficacy in stimulating immune responses, without many/most/any of the problems associated with live & dead virus vaccines. I'd bet there are folk at Fort Deitrich right now preparing to use identical techniques in case of biowar. If not, there damn well should be.
My Pfizer #1 gave me a sore shoulder the next day, but nothing more than any other shot I've ever had.
As long as they don’t insist on keeping the country shut down to protect them, and as long as all of the vaccine we have is going into people’s arms, I don’t see why anybody should care if some people would rather take their chances with the virus, especially if they are healthy and under 60.
Lincolntf: I hear one should get the 2 shots in different arms. Still await appointment, but definitely taking Trump's advice here.
“You people are funny. You have to give Trump 100% credit for a vaccine he refused to promote and you won't take. Is there any pandemic ball you people won't drop?”
Right? And now when Trump actually did say to get the vaccine, half of his followers are going to get mad at him for it. Stay in the Trump reservation Trump! Sheesh.
"It’s going to be increasingly difficult to deny that conservatives, at least about half of them are now in the anti vaxxer camp.”
Vaccines are not a magical elixir. They serve to prime the immune system. That said, immunity can follow different paths. The goal from a population perspective is to reduce excess deaths (e.g. Planned Parent/hood) and normalize community immunity for purposes of mitigating risk to people ineligible for inoculation or treatment, or who are incapable of developing complete or sufficient immunity (e.g. elderly).
Conservative voters don't usually idolize their politicians. Trump is the first in my lifetime that received the kind of adulation that Democrats regularly pour on even their mediocre or worse politicians like Clinton, Obama or (embarrassingly) even Joe Biden. They voted for Nixon as a law and order politician but didn't love him. They thought Reagan was soft on Russia and did not do enough to roll back the welfare state. They thought the Bushes were better than the other guy. They thought McCain and Romney weren't. They don't like the pomp of the State of the Union (see Kevin D. Williamson on this point). They really believe the President is just a person with a temporary job, not some sort of godlike avatar of good or evil depending on affiliation.
Part of the Never Trump phenomenon is a gut revulsion at the adulation of politicians that overcomes rationality (see Jonah Goldberg not those Lincoln Project grifters who just want to be on the side that pays them).
I mean, sure. Dress up Harris's anti-science position in "but it was reached through hating the right people!" Trump's position at the time was based on science; Harris's was based on political expediency. If you believe her that it was just that she wanted more Science, then I suppose all the current anti-vaxxers are just as valid as Harris in just wanting more of The Science From People They Trust Who Align With Their Political Preferences. Because that's totally how Science works.
What Harris did was stupid and political at best, malicious and evil, leaving dead people in its wake at the worst. There is no way to dress up what she did in a positive way (I lean towards her just being stupid and political -- I'm sure someone will argue actual malice though.)
“So, Inga, what did you make of the Gallup poll that showed that in January only 49% of health care workers were intending to be vaccinated? Would you say they are anti-vaxxers? Conservatives all, are they?”
I said what sort of healthcare worker are they?! And where did they get their education and how the hell did they graduate?
Chuck, you aren't even trying anymore. Why would you (Life Long Republican (TM) that you claim to be) defend one of Kamala's idiotic, face-plant statements?
If you get banned it should be because you are so obviously a fake.
Inga--don't ask me, ask Gallup.
Even the New York Times just published an article admitting that vaccine skepticism is especially high among people of color and the LGBTQ community. That's down to statements like the ones from Pelosi and Harris, stoking needless, politically-motivated fears. It's shameful to see Chuck rushing to split hairs to excuse them, when the consequences could literally be deadly.
The CDC recently distanced themselves from some of the recommendations that the Trump Administration had foisted upon them and pressured them to publish. I think Harris was skeptical of anything that came out of the CDC under Trump and rightly so.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/03/15/cdc-removes-some-trump-era-guidance/
“Federal health officials have identified several controversial pandemic recommendations released during the Donald Trump administration that they say were “not primarily authored” by staff and don’t reflect the best scientific evidence, based on a review ordered by its new director. The review identified three documents that had already been removed from the agency’s website: One, released in July, delivered a strong argument for school reopenings and downplayed health risks. A second set of guidelines about the country’s reopening was released in April by the White House and was far less detailed than what had been drafted by the CDC and the Federal Emergency Management Agency. A third guidance issued in August discouraged the testing of people without covid-19 symptoms even when they had contact with infected individuals. That was replaced in September after experts inside and outside the agency raised alarms. CDC Director Rochelle Walensky ordered the review as part of her pledge to restore public trust in the beleaguered agency, which had seen its recommendations watered down or ignored during the Trump administration to align with the former president’s efforts to downplay the severity of the pandemic.”
"Part of the Never Trump phenomenon is a gut revulsion at the adulation of politicians that overcomes rationality”
Exactly right, the revulsion that Never Trumpers feel for the increased diversity that Trump brought to the Republican Party overcomes the Never Trumper’s ability to think rationally. Which is why we are in this mess. If they are genuine Republicans, they should have had the sense to play the ball wear it lies, and not to pretend that there could be a do over of the 2016 Republican primary, but instead, they seem to will the very destruction of the Republican Party rather than accept the new diversity that Trump has brought us.
Isn’t that the same Washington Post that just got caught lying to us about Trump and Georgia that you are quoting Inag?
“Inga--don't ask me, ask Gallup.”
Better than asking Gallup...
Dealing with COVID-19 vaccine hesitancy among health care workers, from the AMA.
"And now when Trump actually did say to get the vaccine”
He has been saying it all along, what’s this “and now”? More lies from teh Washington Post probably. How many lies do they have to tell you before you begin to question them, Inag?
Except that all Republicans are considered suspect in their "did not worship Trump enough" world.
Even people who were mocked by Trump during the 2016 primary and came round to supporting him - they are not good enough either. No one is good enough. Only Trump!
To prove my point - someone tell me who they would support if Trump does not agree to run in 2024.
Inag - Trump doesn't run the CDC.
Strangely, after five plus years, a new hypotheses must now be tested, not for accuracy (since that word doesn't work with our past president) but for acceptability amongst the deniers of Trump's living outside the law as Fred Trump and Roy Cohn taught him to do.
There is a reason why Trump's businesses followed the same path as 'legitimate" enterprises adopted by the Mafioso to provide a place to launder illegal cash. Real estate construction, property management, gambling casinos, hotels, resorts, and golf courses where the rich gather to bitch. Since entering politics, he is now selling his soul by cutting deals with foreign adversaries.
We are told that Donald is about to have another dishonest ghost-written book published with his name on it. And as The Eagles' Don Henley sings:
Some rich men came and raped the land
Nobody caught 'em
Put up a bunch of ugly boxes
And, Jesus, people bought 'em
They called it paradise
The place to be
They watched the hazy sun
Sinking in the sea
Since you have a distrust of the WaPo, Tim, here from other sources.
https://khn.org/morning-breakout/cdc-probe-finds-trump-administrations-covid-policies-not-guided-enough-by-science/
CDC Probe Finds Trump Administration’s Covid Policies Not Guided Enough By Science
“The Trump White House's coronavirus guidance was at times influenced too much by political appointees and not enough by federal scientists, determines a new CDC review conducted in an effort to restore faith in the beleaguered health agency.
The Hill: CDC Review Finds Trump-Era Guidance Was Not Based On Science
Federal health officials have identified and removed guidance documents released during the Trump administration that were not grounded in science and not "primarily authored" by Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) staff, according to an agency internal review. The review specifically cited three reports issued by the Trump administration that had already been removed from the agency's website: guidance on reopening schools issued in July, guidelines on "reopening America" issued in April, and guidance on COVID-19 testing issued in August.” (Weixel, 3/15)
gadfly is jealous because Trump scores all the hot trannie impersonators.
Tim, you won’t regain your street cred here on these threads after being a realist regarding Covid, but keep trying, maybe they will take you back into the fold.
"We are told that Donald is about to have another dishonest ghost-written book published with his name on it."
We went over this before...Trump prints the name of the writer on the cover of his books.
It is not dishonest to write a book with a co-writer when that writer is named.
How stupid are you?
Oh, wait...
“I expect that medical doctors, grad school independents and Biden voters are all around 90% pro-vaccine.”
I suspect you’re correct.
The same media who report that Cuomo is the gold standard in covid care?
https://khn.org/morning-breakout/cdc-probe-finds-trump-administrations-covid-policies-not-guided-enough-by-science/
A nice collection of left wing "news" sites.
The same media who report that Cuomo is the gold standard in covid care?
The man from Planned Parent/hood. Schumer, too. With Pelosi wielding her novelty-size mallet not far behind. Biden groping. Harris taking a knee.
I call ‘em like I see ‘em Inag. I don’t really care all that much what anybody here thinks of me. I write my comments for my own amusement and perhaps for the amusement of others if they are of a mind to be amused.
"And now when Trump actually did say to get the vaccine”
He has been saying it all along, what’s this “and now”?
Trump was the model of anti-fascism and that was a source of political, social, and comedic derision. Observe, prepare, consult with your doctor. We can make health care affordable, available, and voluntary.
Russia announced late Wednesday that it was withdrawing its ambassador to the U.S. effective Saturday for “consultations” after U.S. President Joe Biden publicly attacked and threatened Russian President Vladimir Putin.
Let’s piss of a nuclear superpower because Hillary blames them for her loss! You would think that Biden could have left it with Putin with the big sloppy kiss he gave him of cancelling Keystone XL, but then he has to spoil it all by repeating the gin fueled ravings of the Crone of Chapaqua.
Remember that pissing off a nuclear superpower in the service of domestic partisan politics does not count as a “gaffe,"
Indeed
https://mobile.twitter.com/bigrich805/status/1372597258835824643
“I don’t really care all that much what anybody here thinks of me. I write my comments for my own amusement and perhaps for the amusement of others if they are of a mind to be amused.”
Don’t be ashamed of your Covid realism Tim, you’re talking brave now, but people here won’t forget or forgive you regarding what you said concerning Covid, mask wearing and social distancing. I recall how often you were called a coward and a Karen by the brave folks here. It amuses me to see you scrambling to get your street cred back.
"It amuses me to see you scrambling to get your street cred back.”
I stand by everything I have said regarding masks and COVID, I have just tired of repeating arguments or making new ones to people who refuse to listen. Anybody who won’t read my comments because of that is not worth reaching anyway.
Trump is Pro-Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness. A yesteryear liberal (i.e. conservative, per chance libertarian).
its proper to be cautious, but when the policy has proven to be excessively draconian, it's time to revise the strategy,
The Bedpan Commando is trying to demonstrate her medical expertise while denigrating those with actual expertise.
Par for the course.
Brave Tim, the Covid realist...
“I stand by everything I have said regarding masks and COVID, I have just tired of repeating arguments or making new ones to people who refuse to listen. Anybody who won’t read my comments because of that is not worth reaching anyway.”
Bravo Tim!
From the post:
"...Trumpsters can continue as true believers whether there is a person in the role of Trump or not."
Or perhaps Trumpism isn't a thing, but conservative/libertarianism is.
“The Bedpan Commando...”
Says the slobbering drunk.
“So, Inga, what did you make of the Gallup poll that showed that in January only 49% of health care workers were intending to be vaccinated? Would you say they are anti-vaxxers? Conservatives all, are they?”
I said what sort of healthcare worker are they?! And where did they get their education and how the hell did they graduate?
>>
Once again, you go with anecdote over data. I'll give you both.
1) I got vaccinated because that hotbed of TRUMP!!!!, the University of California AT SAN FRANCISCO had leftover vaccines during the "health care worker" phase of vaccination.
2) As pointed out above anywhere from 30-50% of health care workers have refused vaccination in real world, multiple site experience.
Considering you don't even have basic understanding of vaccines and immunity, yet claim to be a nurse, I'd ask you the same question. How the hell did you graduate?
From the article:
“Trump’s a liberal New Yorker. Why would we listen to him either?”
“Did you vote for him?” Tuchman pressed.
“He was the best option,” the man responded.
Does that sound like a "true believer" to you?
Which CDC are you referring to Inga?
The CDC that published this:
2. Available modeling data indicate that early, short to medium closures do not impact the epi curve of COVID-19 or available health care measures (e.g., hospitalizations). There may be some impact of much longer closures (8 weeks, 20 weeks) further into community spread, but that modelling also shows that other mitigation efforts (e.g., handwashing, home isolation) have more impact on both spread of disease and health care measures. In other countries, those places who closed school (e.g., Hong Kong) have not had more success in reducing spread than those that did not (e.g., Singapore).
(BTW, this of course proved to be 100% correct over the next year. This was published April 27, 2020, it's on their site).
Why would they change something that proved to be 100% correct? politics perhaps?
“Considering you don't even have basic understanding of vaccines and immunity, yet claim to be a nurse, I'd ask you the same question”
Says you, who doesn’t know how to make a hyperlink. I’m not impressed with your “genius”.
I get tons of emails from the GOP daily. I delete them without reading but the topics make it clear that they are desperate. One yesterday said, "RINOS leaving the GOP..."; another was seemingly critical of never-Trumpers. Frankly, I don't trust them. If I join and support the Party again it will have to be after a genuine purge of Party leadership and a firm approach to pushing back on the Dems and their agenda. Other than De Santis, I'm not seeing much leadership at all in the Party. Just politics as usual. Getting re-elected is apparently more important than the fate of our country.
Says you, who doesn’t know how to make a hyperlink. I’m not impressed with your “genius”.
>>
Why should I bother learning that crap. That's what I hired people for.
Instead I learn how to read and interpret data.
For that I earned enough money to retire at 45. To an island.
I'm not impressed with your inability to find the New England Journal of Medicine, the most prestigious medical journal in the USA, when provided with the actual URL address.
Trump owns the Republican party. If you want to run as a Republican you''l have to go through him. The RINOs time is limited.
We're going to replace them and a few Dems as well.
“Why should I bother learning that crap. That's what I hired people for.”
Lazy and a braggart, not a good combo, reminds me of the saying, on the internet, nobody knows you’re a dog.
Lazy and a braggart, not a good combo, reminds me of the saying, on the internet, nobody knows you’re a dog.
>>
Coming from the woman who literally could not be bothered to type "www.nejm.org"
Ok
Who in the world would talk with a CNN reporter during dinner?.......in Oklahoma?
The conversation never happened.
“Coming from the woman who literally could not be bothered to type "www.nejm.org"”
Not only did I link to the New England Journal of Medicine, I linked to a few articles from them, among others, proving you wrong.
and why should we listen to a CNN interview of those he sees as ignorant people? Did he "cherry pick" the answers? Or did the locals sort of pull his leg with their answers?
There are a lot of Hispanics in the town, twenty percent of the population if Wikipedia is correct: Did he even notice them, or get their opinions?
and why does the local hospital mention they have the Johnson and Johnson vaccine? It was only approved of in late February 2021, and the Catholic bishops have ethical objections to it.
I hope Trump plans on running for every senate seat, every house seat, and the presidency. That's a lot of cloning. He's a super hero - he can do it.
I live in the Philippines, and here there is also a deep scepticism of getting the vaccine,
Much of this is due to the Dengue vaccine kerfuffle, which killed some kids.
But it is also due to bad social medial stories (?Chinese and Russian bots? Much of the social media here echoes the leftist talking points in the USA.)
Or maybe it's because the gov't is trying to push the Chinese vaccine on us (50 percent efficient) and nobody trusts China.
The Pfizer vaccine was available, but because someone in the government didn't sign a paper, it wasn't sent to us in January, and so we are only starting to give out the shot recently.
So don't blame Trump: Here, the vaccine is pushed by Duterte, who has a 80 percent public approval.
But that doesn't mean blind disobedience. However, since people are literally in danger of starving because they can't work, I suspect they will get the vaccine.
I'm a doc and support the vaccines by the way: But a lot of my relatives don't.
Inga. You did nothing of the sort. You’re demented.
You know what.
I apologize.
I now realize that Inga is not an idiot. She is demented as is evidenced by her memory loss.
Continuing to prove her wrong is just elder abuse of a demented individual and I'll stop.
Per Nancy Reyes: However, since people are literally in danger of starving because they can't work, I suspect they will get the vaccine.
Not sure how this works in the Philippines but, as I understand it, here in the States your employer cannot force you to take a vaccine that is approved 'for emergency use only' to keep your job. Most of those refusing the vaccine here are health care workers.
“You know what. I apologize. I now realize that Inga is not an idiot. She is demented as is evidenced by her memory loss. Continuing to prove her wrong is just elder abuse of a demented individual and I'll stop.”
Apology accepted.
I actually have a very good memory.
“He was the best option,” the man responded.
Does that sound like a "true believer" to you?
At least one positive about people who place their faith in the extra-universal God, is that they are less susceptible to take a knee to gods and especially mortal gods and goddesses. And His religion (i.e. behavioral protocol, moral philosophy) is of sound principles.
Russia Collusion Dead Ender Truther Inga: "I actually have a very good memory."
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!
Carter Page: treasounous traitor russian spy or no?
Remember, your recently reiterated position is that Carter Page is a traitorous spy.
This should be good.
@tim in Vermont: “I call ‘em like I see ‘em Inag. I don’t really care all that much what anybody here thinks of me. I write my comments for my own amusement and perhaps for the amusement of others if they are of a mind to be amused.l
Except the study you cited in favor of masks contradicted you — it pays to read things to the end.
And when reality holes your studies below the waterline, so much the worse for reality.
Just like Inga.
Meade you are gracious indeed
Drago, don’t get excited, I mostly just ignore you now.
“Meade you are gracious indeed”
Haha, ass kisser.
“Except the study you cited in favor of masks contradicted you — it pays to read things to the end.
And when reality holes your studies below the waterline, so much the worse for reality.
Just like Inga.”
Oh poor Brave Tim the Covid Realist, see what I mean Tim? They won’t forget or forgive your Covid trespasses.
Inga, I have an idea.
Deal in specifics. You know, facts and stuff.
Tim’s cite contradicted him. When I pointed that out, he scarpered.
Just like when I point out how your assertions are baseless, and can’t explain reality, you retreat to mumbles and prevarication. You *never* grapple with the issue confronting you.
You and Tim are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.
Inga got into the toots today, eh?
Toots? Um... no. I am however baking a cherry pie since people were talking about Door County cherries on another thread, made me hungry for cherry pie. I am having a bit of fun today online, one can do that without imbibing,
Good Powerline post today.
Rand Paul just gets better and better in my estimation.
Hey Skipper, as I said I’ll leave you folks to discuss Covid stuff henceforth. I’m pretty sick of the subject and I’m concentrating on my immediate family and friends. But they’re all on board already so it’s smooth sailing.
I’m pretty sure demented people don’t understand irony or sarcasm.
“I’m pretty sure demented people don’t understand irony or sarcasm.”
I’m pretty sure that people on the Spectrum have issues with irony and/or sarcasm also. I’ve wondered about if you were on the Spectrum, if so, there’s nothing wrong with that, their brains just operate differently that all. No reason to disparage you.
"It was that he unabashedly loved America, and was willing to actually fight against the entities that were (are) harming America."
Trump loves himself. Period.
Everything else is show for the rubes.
"it pays to read things to the end.”
I have read it to the end. All that they actually studied was whether masks trapped coronavirus, which they did, then they said a lot of things that weren’t supported by their own actual work, that were received wisdom at the time, and that has been shown to be wrong by other work that has been done since it was done last March. I know it’s complicated and there are a lot of things to keep in your mind like that, but I can’t go spoon feeding this stuff to you guys.
But if you want to brag about your own simple-mindedness, who am I to stop you.
The shutdowns are complete bullshit, BTW.
There's no evidence in the real world that masks work.
Period.
Shutdowns are also complete bullshit.
Period.
Russia Collusion Dead Ender Truther Inga: "Drago, don’t get excited, I mostly just ignore you now."
If I had your astonishing record of lies spanning years, I would probably ignore those pointing it out as well.
"There's no evidence in the real world that masks work.”
I guess you have taken the path of repeating your only argument over and over and over, and people wonder why I skip out on these debates.
If it were true, that would be different. I don’t like masks. I hate my mask at the gym. Believe me, if there were no evidence that they work, I would be all over it.
Robert Cook said...Trump loves himself. Period. Everything else is show for the rubes.
I do not disagree, Cookie.
However, tell me about the politicians who are less selfless.
While you are at it, tell me about politicians who are not in it for the money.
@Tim in Vermont: “ But if you want to brag about your own simple-mindedness, who am I to stop you.”
Your cite, at the end, said that masks were ineffective against viral particles embedded in aerosols. Which is what pre-/asymptomatic people emit.
Which is why you need to read your cites, instead of the headlines.
Speaking of simple-mindedness, you equate filtration effectiveness with risk reduction.
The real world, not studies, says masks don’t make any difference. If you want to wear one, I’d have to be in a permanent post-vegetative state to care less than I do at this very moment. However, I seem to remember you waxing indignant at those who think your firmly held convictions were all feels, and no facts.
One guy in Oklahoma is more a random straw in the wind than polling data. It's not even straw poll data. And people don't fit into the boxes today's civil warriors want to put them in. When Reagan won by a landslide there were still plenty of old Middle American working class men who hated the guy.
This guy didn't hate Trump, but it sounds like Trump didn't get through his instinctive distrust of city people or coast people. That was one reason why Trump lost - if he lost - was that he had plenty of lukewarm supporters who didn't care much what happened. Biden had plenty of people who hated Trump and would do anything to get him out of the White House. The people who were saying that "Love Trumps Hate" in '16 proved that hate trumps love of Trump.
All politicians say what they have to say to get elected.
The test of whether they mean it or not is in their deeds and actions and results.
Metaphysical speculation about what's in the soul of a politician is just so much wasted effort.
Or it would be, if any real effort were involved.
Post a Comment