"[Volkswagen spokesman Mark] Gillies, after presenting the false information the day before, came clean on Tuesday... '[W]e didn’t mean to mislead anyone. The whole thing is just a marketing action to get people talking' about its new car model."
From "An unwelcome prank: Volkswagen purposely hoodwinks reporters" (AP).
VW must have thought that it's so clearly not true that the longstanding brand name Volkswagen of America would be changed to "Voltswagen of America" that it would work as an Onion-style headline, funnier because it looks like real news.
But the Associated Press, USA Today, CNBC, and the Washington Post all took it seriously and reported it as news. And some of them are now acting outraged. E.g.: "This was not a joke. It was deception. In case you haven’t noticed, we have a misinformation problem in this country. Now you’re part of it. Why should anyone trust you again?"
পোস্টগুলি
১৬২টি মন্তব্য:
Why *should* anyone trust the WaPost ever again? I conclude from this that Journalists are just completely dense and have *no* idea how a Business works.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/03/numerous-convoys-attacked-iraq-biden-says-nothing/
So hard to find relevant news these days...
Assholes w/a capital Ass
I wonder if the AP would swallow a story about the Washington Post changing their name to the Washington Pest?
we have a misinformation problem in this country. Now you’re part of it. Why should anyone trust you again?"
OMFG. They lack the self awareness to know they are tue chief peddlers of misinformation.
...and they're angry they were duped. Stunning...
the campaign worked Very Well on me!
i have NO INTEREST in electric cars....i NOW have NO INTEREST in VW's
win. win.
This is what happens when you pick people for their politics
I don't even listen to radio shows anymore, since every host has turned politically correct at the direction of the vice president of cumulus.
Man. Remember when journalists would have to get a second source on whether their mother loved them? We have some of the worst media "elite."
Volkswoken would be good from a diversity standpoint.
So the Germans -- the GERMANS -- have a better sense of humor than the coastal media.
If there's a controversy it will just be even more publicity for Volkswagon.
We have a "that's not funny" problem in America
Why should anyone trust you again?
Remember when Volkswagon lied about their cars meeting emission standards? It cost them a lot of money.
What chutzpah! Some of the biggest purveyors of fake news complaining about fake news. I told my wife this morning that it must be an advertising campaign because no one abandons an iconic brand name on a whim. Typical that all of these supposed news outlets fell for it without checking.
Volkswagen had those great print ads in the 70s. Get those people back. They're probably Biden's age but hey, he's still 'working'...
Shorter:
the press: STOP SHOWING EVERYONE HOW STUPID AND GULLIBLE WE ARE!
"This was not a joke. It was deception. In case you haven’t noticed, we have a misinformation problem in this country. Now you’re part of it. Why should anyone trust you again?"
They were saying this about the Russia collusion hoax, in which all the MSM eagerly participated? Why should anyone trust them again?
Unlike Liz Warren’s tweet the other day, this was a genuine joke. But today’s journalists are not the sharpest tacks in the bulletin board, not that they are smart enough to understand how stupid they are.
Seems a pretty obvious joke to me, and the reaction mostly a comment on the gullibility of the press. YMMV.
VW is one of the most iconic brands in history, due to the old legacy Beetle. Everyone over 50 knows that.
And some of them are now acting outraged. E.g.: "This was not a joke. It was deception. In case you haven’t noticed, we have a misinformation problem in this country. Now you’re part of it. Why should anyone trust you again?"
This reveals a typical lack of self-reflection on the part of reporters affiliated with news services that, in the last four years, have enthusiastically served as conduits for disinformation about Trump. I literally cannot not remember that every time I see some reporter pretend to be outraged by "disinformation."
If the press were mostly old grizzled streetwise reporters who started on the local crime beat, which is how it *used* to work, I’m pretty sure they’d all call b.s. on this, right away.
Sadly, today’s press is not that — it’s a bunch of Ivy Leagers with zero street smarts and completely disconnected from our history and culture — and we are all worse off for it.
The press are just pissed that they weren't in on the joke.
Most journalists today are like the dweeby kid who got to occasionally hang out with the cool crowd because he was useful to the latter. He thinks he's cool by proxy, but everyone actually despises him.
There was the Ted Kennedy Volkswagen ad, that Volkswagen sued National Lampoon about.
"If Ted Kennedy drove a Volkswagen he's be President today" with floating Volkswagen.
Our "elites," ladies and gentlemen.
I do wonder if our elites now are better or worse than those of a decaying, dysfunctional royal court just before everything falls apart. I tend to have a bias that things are better today than they were, but I also suspect that this level of incompetence would have long been fatal to a royal court in years past. Any self-respecting potential usurper would have noticed that these dimwits were no threat at all and made the move a long time ago.
Now that's funny, the reaction from the press I mean. The VW press release is mildly amusing and moderately clever.
Oh, and the outraged reaction gets VW what it wanted: coverage and attention.
This EV craze is going to end badly. Consumers don't want EVs.
Say, for example, a certain married couple wanted to drive an EV from Madison to Omaha. And then from Omaha to Valentine, Nebraska. Probably couldn't make it and would have to stop and charge. And the charging takes a long time. But charge where? There are no charging stations in O'Neill, Nebraska and few in Iowa.
Dumbasses are gonna' dumbass. Dumb-assery is their stock in trade.
The only thing stupider than journalists writing for the Times or the WaPo are the people who read them and believe anything they say. Those people are fucking retarded.
Self-righteous media channels Greta
Media: Now you’re part of it. Why should anyone trust you again?"
That's exactly what we said to you!
Addendum: a return to advertising humour by Volkswagen? Their 60's adverts were truly funny. Including the National Lampoon's (?) take on Teddy Kennedy driving one.
They could change the name to "Hitlermobile of America" and some in the media still wouldn't realize it was a joke.
Damn you, Volkswagen! Misleading the public is our job!"
-The Press
Back in the early 1960's Victor Borge had an occasional TV show sponsored by Pontiac. In one episode there was an expensively-produced commercial for Potniac, with cars showing P-O-T-N-I-A-C across the trunk, and a chorus singing the Potniac song. Apparently nobody noticed.
Stick, ass, some assembly required.
We called them Nazi Death Wagons back in the day.
Volkswagen has particular credibility issues stemming from (1) its ineradicable (to me, but ymmv) association with Nazism, and (2) its still recent, and blatantly corrupt, manipulation of diesel mileage numbers, a manipulation widely known at the top of the corporate ladder while it took place. They are way past the HAHA phase of marketing they used in the early 60's when they left consumers chuckling at their cute witticisms.
On this one, I give the MSM a pass. There were enough indicia of credibility that VW should have saved it for April 1, at which point they could have pulled it off, guiltlessly.
Damn you, Volkswagen! Misleading the public is our job!"
Volkswagon needs to stay in it's own lane.
Oh, we definitely have a misinformation problem in this country. It is just not the misinformation problem you think it is
Sounds like Volkswagen needs to hire the Joe Isuzu announcer-guy.
"In case you haven’t noticed, we have a misinformation problem in this country. Now you’re part of it. Why should anyone trust you again?" Same reason we trust all of you news guys so much.
Does NPR still do the faux news items on All Things Considered on April First?
Several news organizations, including The Associated Press, USA Today, CNBC and The Washington Post, had reported the original press release as real news, some after being assured specifically that it was no joke.
If they were contacted afterwards with a "are you serious?" follow up question and the reporters were told that it was not a joke, then, yes, VW was wrong. They should have made the announcement on April 1 and refused follow up questions until the 2nd.
People blog lists or retweet the best internet April Fool's pranks. They could have gotten a lot more viral coverage and kept it positive. There's a difference between pranking a friend and saying it's not a joke and pranking someone whose job it is to report what you say. The press messed up by reporting what was said accurately for a change. Bad time to get it right.
40,000
Minimum number of square miles required to provide enough electricity to replace gasoline use in US.
John Henry
Guess what Bitcoin uses huge amounts of? Electricity. And it will get hugerer.
I read this story on all the auto sites but everyone who reported it said they thought it was a prank, but sources at VW assured them it was not.
If a journalist asks a direct question, 'Is this an April Fool's joke?' and get a reply of 'No,' then I think this is why people are pissed off...
Why didn't the idiots wait until tomorrow to do this?
Minimum number of square miles required to provide enough electricity to replace gasoline use in US.
Not if you use hydroelectric and nuclear energies.
Reminds me of Edison pulling the leg of a new reporter visiting his lab. He told the reporter that the new microphone they had developed was so sensitive that they could hear the angels.
Back in the 70s or 80s there was an add for spaghetti on TV about the spaghetti harvest.
It showed all the Boyardi (or whoever) extended family in the spaghetti orchard picking only the finest, ripest, spaghetti and shipping it fresh to your table.
They got into trouble and had to pay a fine. They kept running the add but with a disclaimer that it was humor and that spaghetti didn't really grow on trees.
John Henry
I suppose I broke the rule of not following the headline subject matter- it was a natural reaction to find something real to juxtapose this hot button news.
You say “volkswoken”-
I say “wokeswagen”!
misinformation - definition
US news media.
These are the same guys who say the election was honest.
It was San Giorgio in 1978
https://youtu.be/q-ZtGoXkI58
The BBC also did a report on spaghetti growing on trees in 1957
https://youtu.be/tVo_wkxH9dU
And of course it has a Wikipedia entry.
John Henry
It was never intended to be serious unlike the purported news
Hey, AP. Someone other than Volkswagen is sitting on the voltswagen.com website. If it were true, they would have secured the website before making the announcement.
It's Sid Finch week around our house...
Just in case you were wondering, now you know that the Associated Press, USA Today, CNBC, and the Washington Post ALL routinely act as "press release publishing houses" for companies and left wing interest groups.
Actual reporters would have dug into the story, and not been punked. But none of those organizations engage in actual reporting.
Just in case you were wondering
"Why didn't the idiots wait until tomorrow to do this?"
That is a reason people were persuaded, especially after getting confirmation from the company, that the story was real. It broke too early.
Gahrie,
Correct. I meant 40,000 minimum square miles of solar panels.
About 300 large nukes at 1 gigawatt per plant or about 600 Hoover dams at 0.5gw each
John Henry
So there is NO verification of stories that come over their Twitter feed. One corroborating phone call, to much to ask. Wankers
"If Ted Kennedy drove a Volkswagen he's be President today" with floating Volkswagen.
I feel for Mary Jo
but that is funny
Companies, even famous companies with famous names, change their names all the time. Even if Volkswagen hoped the media outlets would play it straight, they should have told the reporters it was a joke.
"If Ted Kennedy drove a Volkswagen he's be President today" with floating Volkswagen.
I feel for Mary Jo
but that is funny
Re hydro, look up the environmental disaster that is Canada's James Bay project.
Besides drowning huge amounts of virgin forest, it also caused acid rain in the us (thanks canada) and wide mercury contamination in canada
And doesn't even produce that much juice. About 17 gw capacity,
John Henry
here's my filter:
"would this be on the Bee or NotTheBee?"
This would be on the Bee. 100%. Mock the butthurt.
The media is pissed because it got caught passing off press releases as news again. No fact checking, no digging around, the company (or the government as long as it is Democrats) hands them a paper and they publish it as news. The joke was indeed, on them.
Correct. I meant 40,000 minimum square miles of solar panels.
How many square miles of rooftop are there in the United States?
Look, I support fossil fuels. I even think there's a good chance they're actually renewed in the Earth's mantle, but solar is the future for most people. It's not perfect, but it's getting better, and the emerging exploitation of space will only increase this. Electric cars are simply better cars than ICE cars in everything but range. (How far could a 56 Chevy go on one tank of gas?) Once one company converts their fleet of vehicles to all electric, and demonstrates the cost savings, the race will be on.
This EV craze is going to end badly
I've learned today I'm a bit of a contrarian. I'm taking the under on this one, too. Not that I believe 'replacement' is in the near future, but they have lots of advantages in various situations and appeal to more than just the virtuous crowd.
...and Europe is getting a bit of forced adoption.
I wonder how many people pronounce it voltswagen, as in, "my old diesel voltswagen puts out more smoke then my chimly".
It's already been well covered by others, but I will reiterate: the media in this country employs people who are just not smart enough to what they are supposed to do. They are frightening ignorant, and at the same time convinced of their superiority to the unwashed masses.
The Gell-Mann Amnesia Effect should be taught to every student in every school in the nation every year from first grade through high school graduation.
From: https://www.cnsnews.com/article/international/patrick-goodenough/obama-adviser-quoted-we-created-echo-chamber-sell-iran
Samuels wrote that Rhodes does not think much of the journalists the war room was using to spread its narrative: “The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old, and their only reporting experience consists of being around political campaigns,” Rhodes was quoted as telling him. “They literally know nothing.”
"Back in the 70s or 80s there was an add for spaghetti on TV about the spaghetti harvest."
It wasn't an ad, it was a supposed news report aired by BBC as an April Fool's joke in 1957. I remember seeing it.
mis use of media
My gas-powered hula hoop flopped. Very optimistic about my new EHH however.
It's the Tesla of hula hoops.
If the press did more than lightly rewrite press releases, this might not be a problem.
Many -- not all - journalists are stupid and lazy. The people who actually have good journalism skills tend to go into marketing and PR, and run circles around their journalist peers.
This essay explains it better than I can:
http://paulgraham.com/submarine.html
Agency ECD Spins in Aeron Chair.
But the Associated Press, USA Today, CNBC, and the Washington Post all took it seriously and reported it as news. And some of them are now acting outraged.
Spot on. [Emphasis mine]
Used to know lots of peeps who went to IHOP and got the pancakes. Now, almost no one does. Reason? Everyone's watching their carbs and blood sugar levels. I dunno what happened. Never knew anyone with diabetes when growing up. Now its like there's a Level 2 epidemic.
G. Gordon Liddy just died. I hope we get a blog thread about him.
The mainstream media complaining about misinformation is delicious irony or hypocrisy.
I'm surprised that CNN didn't fall for it.
Maybe they were to busy covering up something else.
This is a case of the pot calling the kettle black, except the pot is the size of MV Ever Given and has been blocking the Suez Canal of Objective Truth since 1992.
Paraphrasing Winston Zeddemore, that's a big pot.
solar is the future for most people. It's not perfect,
For Germany? Have you been to Germany in summer ? Maybe 100 years from now there will be a way to collect solar energy in space and beam it down but roof top panels are not going to be a solution. I live in Tucson, the best place for solar I know of. I have looked into it but not right now.
The future, if not fossil fuels, is nuclear. The problem is that the political left is dead set against it. An old KGB ploy in the 50s is still working.
Gahrie,
When you start doing rooftops solar gets very expensive very fast. Especially residential.
One is a problem of scale. 2kw probably costs 2-3 times, per kw, as a 2,000kw install.
Another is that many residential, and commercial, roofs are not structurally designed for the weight. Even when they are, there is still construction cost of penetrating the roof.
Cost of a 2kw system is about $6m. (less to you if you take money from your fellow Americans)
Double or triple that for installed so call it $15m
It will produce an average of 0.5 kw. Or about 4,500 kwh yearly.
Mw scale solar doesn't work and can never work without storage. (with some exceptions) unless someone can develop a storage system that can store at least 2 full days, more lik 3-4 days, solar can never be feasible electrically.
And the economics? Fugeddaboudid.
John Henry
The "journalists" are mad because they were working on a monopoly on fake news, or at least manipulated reporting.
In any case, seems odd that a company best known for purposely faking emissions testing would decide to openly use deception in a marketing campaign.
Mw scale solar doesn't work and can never work without storage. (with some exceptions) unless someone can develop a storage system that can store at least 2 full days, more lik 3-4 days, solar can never be feasible electrically.
Google "Elon Musk" "Power Grid" and "Australia".
solar is the future for most people. It's not perfect,
For Germany?
Who says the solar power has to be generated IN Germany? Most of the power they use now is generated by imported fuel. So stop importing fuel and import electricity. I'm sure Africa would be more than willing to supply the electricity.
Elon has proposed that Australia transition from selling coal to selling electricity to Asia.
And, the days of orbital solar power collectors may not be that far off. They're certainly going to be a priority for Elon, SpaceX and Tesla.
25 years ago Taco Bell bought the Liberty Bell to help with the national debt
http://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1888721_1888719_1888692,00.html
Faux VW ads are not a new thing. I thought this one , about the soundproofing in their cars, was acceptably vile and horribly funny.
The joke is thinking the media isn't a joke itself. THEY did this to themselves. THEY lied to us for years with fake hoaxes and then are OUTRAGED when they get caught up in a hoax on them?? I hope they sit and stew in it long and hard. They deserve to be embarassed.
The name "Volt" didn't work well for Chevrolet. In its first year (2011), "the electric car that ran on gasoline" sold exactly 7,651 vehicles; these vehicles cost the American taxpayer $250,000 each for a total screwing of $3 billion dollars - that's according to Mackinac Center for Public Policy. Worse, the brand literally went down in flames as its huge lithium batteries burst into flames inside owners' garages.
VW shouldn't want to draw any attention, humorous or otherwise, to their actual name, though. I mean, my God. The People's Car, in German. Founded during a certain era in German history.
I'm sort of shocked that in our current "woke" era that VW hasn't actually renamed itself. When activists are trying to "cancel" Abraham Lincoln for his inadequate racial enlightenment, why are VW and Hugo Boss still brands in use?
This was not a joke. It was deception. In case you haven’t noticed, we have a misinformation problem in this country. Now you’re part of it. Why should anyone trust you again?"
Holy crap talk about projection.
The outraged reporter majored in Polisci and journalism so he's double dumb.
One of the things that amazes me is the use of solar, converted to electric, then back to heat to keep the house warm.
Why not use solar water heating technology? That's been around for 100 years and panels can be made by any plumber. Or even at home as a diy project.
Still not economic. Still many of the same problems of solar electric but cheaper.
Oopsie. No opportunity for graft. Sorry, pay no attention to the above. Continue heating with pv solar.
John Henry
And, the days of orbital solar power collectors may not be that far off. They're certainly going to be a priority for Elon, SpaceX and Tesla.
That, in my opinion, is the only way it could work. The day/night problem solved, for example. Germany is trying it, hence my example.
Solar power in Germany consists almost exclusively of photovoltaics (PV) and accounted for an estimated 8.2 percent of the country's gross-electricity generation in 2019.[3][4][5] About 1.5 million photovoltaic systems were installed around the country in 2014, ranging from small rooftop systems, to medium commercial and large utility-scale solar parks.[3]:5 Germany's largest solar farms are located in Meuro, Neuhardenberg, and Templin with capacities over 100 MW.
Germany has been among the world's top PV installer for several years, with total installed capacity amounting to 41.3 gigawatts (GW) by the end of 2016,[1] behind only China. However, new installations of PV systems have declined steadily since the record year of 2011.[6] It's estimated that by 2017 over 70% of the country's jobs in the solar industry have been lost in the solar sector in recent years.
Used to know lots of peeps who went to IHOP and got the pancakes. Now, almost no one does. Reason? Everyone's watching their carbs and blood sugar levels.
Well, maybe. I quit going because every single time I had some sort of issue. Couldn't get seated, couldn't get waited on, couldn't get food because there was only one guy in the kitchen and pancakes were backed up 45 minutes, couldn't pay-out because nobody would come to the register. I like pancakes, but at some point you have to let them go.
Shorter John Henry:
We need nukes! We need a thousand 1/2 to 1gw nukes.
Tomorrow would not be too soon.
buh buh buh but Chernobyl, say the masked Karen's. My response? GFY
John Henry
Why not use solar water heating technology? That's been around for 100 years and panels can be made by any plumber. Or even at home as a diy project.
I had them on my roof for heating a spa. Froze and cracked every winter and that is California ! The system was supposed to recirculate water to keep panels above freezing but it didn't work. It was a mess. Poor installation. Leaking into my kitchen.
Worse, the brand literally went down in flames as its huge lithium batteries burst into flames inside owners' garages.
Nothing more perfectly signals your virtue and demonstrates your commitment to the environment than your willingness to burn down your house — with you in it! — in order to own and operate an electric car.
Aside from the stunning lack of self-awareness by these MSM hacks, this is a problem of size. Every institution, from Governments to Private Entities, get to large. When this happens and institutions are this large, delegating more basic actions down to underlings brings about stupid decisions like this marketing campaign. No one person can reasonably control organizations with millions of employees. We need to decentralize and get rid of large organizations. For example, in the private sector, more large behemoths have fallen by the wayside. Look at Volkswagen's former main competitor GM. GM has become a shell of it's former greatness as the largest carmaker in the World. Size breeds mediocrity and the product line up of GM's and Volkswagen's vehicles are a reflection of this size issue. Interestingly, both Toyota and Honda continue its growth largely due to care in producing reliable vehicles which last a long time. Ford on the other hand is downsizing its product offerings, getting rid of sedans - except for Mustangs.
I used to go to IHOP on occasion, but I can make pancakes in the same time it takes to drive down there, get seated, order, and then wait for my order to arrive. Plus, I'm at home the whole time.
This reminds me of what happens in a family when a prankster pulls a truly good prank on that one person in the family who....MIGHT get mad in front of everyone, instead of laughing along. When the prank is revealed there's that moment when you're not sure whether Mad Person will move in the mad "how dare you THAT'S not funny" direction or chill out and laugh.
Yeah, been there done that.
But not with Google.
Sidney (or maybe Melbourne. I can never keep them straight) gets some large amount of its power from wind and solar. These are widely distributed on the theory that the sun is shining/wind is blowing somewhere.
They have large scale battery backup. Large scale meaning good for 2-3 hours.
They have had several multi-day weather events, no wind or sun that caused massive blackouts shutting down the city.
When Elon has batteries that are economical and can store 2-3 days power, we can talk.
Utility scale batteries are great for load balancing, peaking, remote locations. The are useless as a replacement for generation.
John "nukes now, nukes everywhere" Henry
biden susanrice
with two you get teh egg roll
gee thanx Big Zer0
Elon has proposed that Australia transition from selling coal to selling electricity to Asia.
**********
I have never seen Beijing in winter. No one from Shanghai will go. I am told that heating is free(provided by the government) in big centralized buildings north of the Huai river and the winter inversion makes Beijing pollution unbearable. Xi has promised to clean this up in time for the Olympics it is an issue where his government gets push back from the students and the elites— a rare alliance.
"VW shouldn't want to draw any attention, humorous or otherwise, to their actual name, though. I mean, my God. The People's Car, in German. Founded during a certain era in German history."
Volkswagen began as a National Socialist government agency. It was a sub-department of "Strength through Joy." "Strength through Joy" was if I'm not mistaken a big government agency.
"I'm sort of shocked that in our current "woke" era that VW hasn't actually renamed itself. When activists are trying to "cancel" Abraham Lincoln for his inadequate racial enlightenment, why are VW and Hugo Boss still brands in use?"
Naming the issue would bring attention to the wrong things, however briefly. If a left-wing person starts thinking about government agencies like "Strength through Joy" it must set enough a certain unease -- when a key part of their belief system is based on not thinking about things.
Maybe Elon should look for Jack Ma first and ask some questions....
"40,000
Minimum number of square miles required to provide enough electricity to replace gasoline use in US."
And then you need some practical way to store this energy, which is an even more formidable difficulty given that we don't in fact know how to do it.
40,000 square miles is about 3,800 square feet per vehicle. The average roof is about 1,700 square feet. Of course only one side is optimally pointed, so halve that available space. My household has two vehicles. SO, I need about 8.9 roofs. Of course I live in Wisconsin, literally the worst place for solar. I bet I would need a lot more than nine 'roofs.' Solar is improving, but not THAT much. Nukes, it is if it's not gasoline.
Der Volk are not amused.
It was a british army ivan hirst who rebuilt the factory.
Major, fwiw
Interesting contrast w/ how these same media outlets reacted to being pantsed by the HRC campaign, DOJ, FBI, the Special Counsel Office, and all their anonymous sources in the Trump Russia probe.
Fahrfuggenouten
On the subject of space-based solar power, here's Caltech' plan: Space Solar Power: A New Beginning - Sergio Pellegrino - 10/31/2018
It's exciting because the numbers are starting to make sense. And it would make even more sense if SpaceX's Starship works.
Hey, Volkswagen was just following the current news media zeitgeist... if you believe it's true, then it is.
Yeah..
Proving MSM is beyond parody.
But drawing attention to their brand name components?
Who was the Scheisskopf who came up with that dim idea?
"One of the things that amazes me is the use of solar, converted to electric, then back to heat to keep the house warm."
Yes. It does actually make sense, and has made sense for some time, to use the sun to heat up water by exposing it to the sun within glass or plastic tubes. Despite this being a sensible, practical way to really use solar energy for heating, you, or at least I, never see it.
I'm not quite sure why, except, maybe, it is because these are large awkward structures that take a fair amount of space outside and have to be maintained. Somehow people prefer more impractical ideas. They want a magical solution.
Hey, Mr. WaPo: The true origin of the Ford Motor name is not Henry Ford. It's an acronym for Found On Road, Dead. I swear that this is the true origin. You can even quote me by name! Pinky swear!
"Voltswagen of America" wasn't a prank. It was intended to move forward till the engineers at Volkswagon read the article by Toyota engineers estimating that the USA would have to more than double elctricity producition to go full electric autos. Ain't gonna happen.
The British "elite" actually think an April Fool joke is funny.
Wait for their latest tomorrow.
Everyone in the media upset about this story needs to relax, take a seat and say Ohm.
It's already been well covered by others, but I will reiterate: the media in this country employs people who are just not smart enough to what they are supposed to do. They are frightening ignorant, and at the same time convinced of their superiority to the unwashed masses.
They're Democrats. It's well known that Democrats are incompetent, just look at our cities, such as Chicago, NYC, Seattle, Portland and San Francisco. They couldn't pour piss out of a boot without written directions on the boot heel.
How much infrastructure would be needed to allow every owner to charge his electric car? How many watts of power are consumed in recharging an EV from minimum charge to maximum?
the USA would have to more than double elctricity producition to go full electric autos
Double the Green blight... spread in flyover country and fortify urbane spaces, then wait for the sun to shine or the winds to blow within range.
Fix Or Repair Daily
Fix It Again Tony
Poor Old...
How many watts of power are consumed in recharging an EV from minimum charge to maximum
Not just watts, but Wh. Forward... wait, wait, wait, and ration, encourage people to shelter in place.
Add Luddite to antivaxx antimask Jim Crow reenactors.
"40,000 Minimum number of square miles required to provide enough electricity to replace gasoline use in US."
So, basically, the size of Tennessee. Is that really so hard? There's a lot of empty space in America.
There's a lot of empty space in America.
Remember to add the square miles of Lithium mines and the thousands of child laborers working in them,
We need to decentralize and get rid of large organizations.
Boeing tried this with the 787. They tried to outsource everything they could, including their core competencies, like flight controls and composite structural design and manufacturing. The 787 program was $10B over budget and probably will never be profitable. There's been all kinds of structural problems at the wing root. Boeing tried to morph itself into an assembler rather than a design/build company. Major failure.
Companies need to be excellent at their core product line and keep the design/build in house. Buy commodity products from elsewhere, but do the specialized tasks that define the company.
I know it was an example, but, "...why should anyone trust you again?": truer words have never been spoken.
Reminds me of "Wi Tu Lo" and "Ho Lee Fuk" so eagerly reported.
Blogger robother said...
Everyone in the media upset about this story needs to relax, take a seat and say Ohm.
Or, as Al Sharpton said in one of his battles with a teleprompter "Resist we much!"
John Henry
Next the media will be telling us that dogs don't love trucks, and dogs cannot drive!
(search 'youtube dogs love trucks').
Ann Althouse said...
"40,000 Minimum number of square miles required to provide enough electricity to replace gasoline use in US."
So, basically, the size of Tennessee. Is that really so hard? There's a lot of empty space in America.
3/31/21, 12:51 PM
It may sound easy, but there are a multitude of technical issues with anything like this - the major issue is scalability which engineers will always face.
In addition, You'll always find some endangered frog or a native american burial ground...
"So, basically, the size of Tennessee. Is that really so hard? There's a lot of empty space in America."
But no way to store the energy. If you can afford to spend somewhere between $25,000 and $50,000 on Tesla Powerwalls, and there are probably many people in Madison that can do that, then you're fine as far as that goes. But most people can't afford that.
And even then you're talking about going without power when the stars don't line up.
And actually if you're using Tesla Powerwalls to hold your energy for a dark and cold day, then you have a huge incentive to conserve your use of energy -- which if we get into the fine print is a large part of how this would have to work, if it worked at all. Ie. people drastically cutting back on their energy use.
But it's worse than that. There isn't enough lithium to build all those Powerwalls. In fact it's questionable if there is enough lithium to satisfy the world's needs if we are only talking about electric cars. And they surely should be a higher priority than Powerwalls.
Also, and I'm not totally certain of this, and I need to do more research, but I have a suspicion that for this to have a chance of working the solar cells have to quite close to where they are being used. Like on the roof of your house. And that works fine for some houses but what about apartment buildings?
And you may object and think, well, I've seen fields with solar cells in them. Yes, and it's your taxes paying for those fields. They don't make economic sense otherwise.
Is that so hard? - meaning
A saying used in an attempt to abort a discussion.
Typically delivered by someone without the knowledge to realize that "Yes, it is."
Blogger Ann Althouse said...
So, basically, the size of Tennessee. Is that really so hard? There's a lot of empty space in America.
Yup, just for gasoline cars. Probably 100-150m if you include trucks buses, ships, trains etc
Then another 3-500m square miles for everything else. say 700m for all solar electric.
Yes, we do have space that could be used. A lot of that space is currently green growing things. Forests, farms, parks and so on. Nothing other than a few weeds will grow under the panels. Are you willing to give up 700 sq miles of green growing things? Are you willing to cut down a forest to power your car? What is the effect on the atmosphere of losing all that green?
Or perhaps put it out in Nevada and Utah in the desert. Doable. Lost of cost in transmitting the electricity to where it is used. But doable.
That desert absorbs a lot of heat from the sun. Put solar panels on it and virtually all of the sunlight gets converted to electric (10-15%) or reflected back to the atmosphere. almost None of it goes to keep the desert itself warm. What is the effect of that on the environment? Nobody seems to know. It will definitely be disruptive.
Snakes and lizards will freeze. What little vegetation there is will disappear.
So you are right, Ann. We can find the space. Lots of unused space in the US. Unused by man, that is. Certainly used by nature.
Is that an acceptable tradeoff for battery cars? Is it acceptable to you?
It is not to me. Especially not when there are already far superior, far less impactful technologies.
Here's a pic of a 450mw coal plant next to a 5mw solar plant in Guayama PR for a scale comparison. Not a fan of coal. A natural gas, oil or nuclear plant of similar size would take up about the same space.
http://darkislandpr.blogspot.com/2017/12/coal-vs-solar.html
John Henry
"How far could a 56 Chevy go on one tank of gas?"
Around 200 miles (13 mpg with a 16 gallon tank). But that's the wrong question. How long did it take to replenish the tank? A few minutes. When you reach the range on an EV, you have to plug it in for about an hour to extend it a bit further. Overnight to get full range. Even assuming the infrastructure gets built, you're going to have to stand around, eat, go shopping, whatever. And this doesn't take into account the fact that they're roughly twice as heavy (and cause correspondingly greater road damage) as current cars, or that the batteries require strip mining, or the power grid issues mentioned by John henry, or ...
EVs are going to be a part of the future, but they're not THE future.
You're the press. Is it so hard to call the PR folks at Volkswagen to check before going off half-cocked?
Idiots.
So, basically, the size of Tennessee. Is that really so hard? There's a lot of empty space in America.
Go ahead and ask the Sierra Club what they think about cutting down forests and covering deserts with 40,000 sq. mi. of solar panels. They'll fight any project like this into the next century.
Another problem with cutting down 40,000 sq. mi. of forest is all the runoff from the now cleared land. Our new house project outside of Snoqualmie is limited to cutting down less than three acres out of 6.56 because of drainage issues. We have to put in a drainage system to capture the water runoff and see that it's dispersed properly. That's costing us about $10,000 to $20,000 for 1.3-ac clearing and 6,000-sq. ft. of new impervious surface.
So, not only are the installed solar panels going to cost a pretty penny, the site development costs are going to cost into the stratosphere.
Ann Althouse said...
So, basically, the size of Tennessee. Is that really so hard? There's a lot of empty space in America.
And yet the same environmentalists who push this also claim undisturbed nature is endangered, which justifies policies designed to push people into greater density cities. I'm sure it's just a coincidence those cities are politically controlled by the far left. Surely they wouldn't lie about this just to get their hands on more tax dollars.
If these plans are so obviously workable why does government have to mandate them?
New profile who dis? said...
But that's the wrong question. How long did it take to replenish the tank? A few minutes. When you reach the range on an EV, you have to plug it in for about an hour to extend it a bit further. Overnight to get full range. Even assuming the infrastructure gets built, you're going to have to stand around, eat, go shopping, ...
The only way batteries work is for them to become interchangeable - like grill propane tanks are now. There are ways this could be organized. But there are so many advances required before this is feasible it doesn't even make sense consider it a solution to any problem we currently face.
Interesting point, Rick. I see two big problems right off the bat: EV batteries cost thousands, so keeping a store of pre-charged ones would take a substantial capital outlay; and they'd have to be standardized. Musk looked into it and decided to build charging stations instead.
That said, it's been done already, but I have doubts about the veracity and completeness of any reports out of China.
https://driving.ca/features/feature-story/motor-mouth-is-battery-swapping-the-future-of-evs
I see two big problems right off the bat:
Yes, those and more mean a system is not imminent. EVs aren't going to dominate fleets during the lifetime of anyone alive today.
You're the press. Is it so hard to call the PR folks at Volkswagen to check before going off half-cocked?
According to the story, some did and were assured it was not a joke. That's why I think VW was in the wrong. (See my comment from 9:17)
Without reading any other comments - what a bunch of babies.
But that's the wrong question. How long did it take to replenish the tank? A few minutes. When you reach the range on an EV, you have to plug it in for about an hour to extend it a bit further. Overnight to get full range.
The newest Tesla supercharger can give you 300 miles of range in forty minutes. When you are taking a long car trip that requires fill ups along the way...how do you usually act?
When I'm taking a road trip and need to fill the tank, I stop, fill the tank, maybe check the oil and tires, and then hit the restrooms, maybe pick up some snacks and a caffeinated drink. I usually stretch my legs a little bit, do some deep knee bends.. then back on the road. Easily 40 minutes.
Ten years ago range anxiety and charging times were a major pain in the ass. Today they're a minor inconvenience, and as the technology matures things will improve.
(Ask your grandparents, when cars were introduced the had neither the range, number of gas stations or rapid fill up as they do today)
Another problem with cutting down 40,000 sq. mi. of forest is all the runoff from the now cleared land.
Why would we cut down forest?
(By the way, there are more trees now in North America than there were before the White man came)
Put the solar panels on top of the trees?
JournoLists are infamous for publishing "fake news". Apparently, that was tres-urbane until others followed their lead.
The U.S. press complaining about misinformation...and they are incapable of seeing the irony. Journalists - a sad, pathetic group of useless nothings.
This is what happens when you build organizations filled with humorless scolds.
Personally, I thought the VW joke was excellent. Also, if the humorless scolds had any perspective at all, they'd know that tongue-in-cheek marketing has been an important part of VW's culture since the 60s.
"Elite" media ignorance continues to astound.
"40 minutes" for THAT? Jesus, you're slow. I stop, get gas and go. Stop at a rest stop, use the bathroom and go. Sometimes I'm delayed but an extra two minutes to buy a drink from the soda machine. I think it would take less than 40 minutes if I had a blowout and had to replace the tire.
The spaghetti harvesting commercial is on YouTube. I posted it on my Facebook timeline last week when I ran across it. It's pretty funny.
THEOLDMAN
Years ago I fell for the April Fools Day joke that Johns Hopkins had finally "given in" to reality and removed the "S" and become John Hopkins. It was accompanied by a very realistic news report showing the crane taking out the "S". It was extra funny once I knew I had fallen for it- that should be the reaction to VW also. Humorless scolds have a much less happy life.
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