"The pastor is himself quite chubby. I guess WaPo chose to focus us on the serious sexism rather than the comedy."
I wrote, over at Facebook, where my son John posted the WaPo article "Pastor says women may not be ‘epic trophy wife’ but should be thin for their husbands. He’s now on leave."
WaPo illustrates its piece with a stock photo of a steepletop cross.
The article I'd seen was in The Daily Mail: "Missouri pastor goes on leave after sexist sermon in which he told women to 'lose weight' and look less 'butch' as he hailed Melania Trump as 'the epic trophy wife.'"
You can listen to 22 minutes of the sermon here.
The top-rated comments at The Daily Mail are about the pastor's own weight problem, so I can see why WaPo chose to exclude this part of the story. It's the Era of That's Not Funny. Don't be laughing.
And by the way, the pastor was straining to be funny. Example:
“Praise God for makeup,” he said. “It’s like Bondo for dented vehicles. And it’s like crack filler for your drywall.”
Imagine going all the way to church and sitting there listening to that. I'd be thinking, man, I could watch any random stand-up special on Netflix.
WaPo quotes an American studies professor, Kari J. Winter:
"Women are pressured from the time we’re born to believe that if we support patriarchal power, we’re going to be rewarded... The really toxic dynamic is it’s not so much which model of womanhood but that men in power have the right to define what a woman should look like and reduce her to her appearance.... Melania models that."
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137 comments:
LOL at my own typo: "The Daily Man."
Corrected now.
ANother opportunity for the media to bash the Trumps.
America is overweight. I’m overweight. Obesity was a big factor with covid deaths. At least I’m now rowing.
The basic idea that a woman should take some thought to presenting herself to her husband as attractive is revolutionary in the current environment. And those car dent and drywall jokes were charming. Plus makeup is available to every woman and is really something of an equalizer, although fat women do have to use more of it...
He's not wrong.
Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 7 that "The husband should fulfill his duty toward his wife, and likewise the wife toward her husband. A wife does not have authority over her own body, but rather her husband, and similarly a husband does not have authority over his own body, but rather his wife." When you marry you agree to serve the needs of each other. Keeping yourself both healthy and attractive for your spouse is part of that, for both men and women. Lose the weight, work out, go to the doctor regularly, take the medications you need to take, dress well, etc. Your body now belongs to your spouse, so you have a duty to take care of it for them.
I like it that the expert they bring in to defend women has to take a dig at Melania.
If I've learned one thing, it's 'don't tell the truth.' Lies keep you together. - Sam Kinison
A woman should be pretty and thin to please her husband... quelle horreur!
The job of a wife, as all sensible people know, is to be ugly, fat and lazy, refuse to give her husband children, and to bitch at him about any way in which he displeases her.
A proper wife aspires to be transsexual, dies her hair purple and shaves the sidewalls.
Oh, for the glorious future when every man is gay and every woman is a diesel dyke!
"Women are pressured from the time we’re born to believe that if we support patriarchal power, we’re going to be rewarded..
Blah blah blah. Childish bullshit. We all have to conform to the demands of a world we didn't make.
Progressives are going to love what comes after Western Civilization.
They really shall.
Really.
He has been watching too many sitcoms and thought it was socially acceptable to say out loud what Hollywood preaches.
He should have stuck to preaching from the Bible.
He's wrong. For a lot of reasons and it's the height of silliness to think Paul was writing about that in 1 Cor 7. Healthy is good, but that's not what he was saying he was saying.
"Melania models that". Its all and only about her appearance, nothing about her accomplishments or the things she did as First Lady. Kari may be forgiven for not knowing I suppose because none of the journalist outfits saw fit to publish anything about Melania other than her looks and what she wore. Unlike the regular pieces fawning over Michelle.
Oh, and some Orange Man Bad for good measure.
Since I’ve played for Catholic, Baptist, Episcopal and Methodist services, let me tell you what happens when churches embrace feminism, gaydom and female and gay male pastors.
The congregation walks out the door.
Many of the clergy in the woke congregations don’t care, because they can milk an endowment and practice their “activism,” even if their church is empty.
Oddly, Christians want to practice traditional Christianity.
WaPo ... The Daily Mail
It's strange how these absolutely trivial incidents become international news.
that men in power have the right to define what a woman should look like and reduce her to her appearance
Why would I be interested in the opinion of some nut who claims that "men in power" reduced to her appearance?
Perhaps a tinfoil helmet would help her with that.
Seeing the world through concepts such as patriarchy is infantile. The world is complex. If Western Culture falls, you're gonna need a lot more patriarchy real fast when there are no more honest police, courts with due process and appeals for mercy.
Just so, Thomas. Globohomo Inc. uses feminism to attack women, and most women are too stupid to see it. A pastor speaks out against unhealthy female obesity - and gets sent to the cleaners by unhealthy female chubsters. Rinse and repeat.
It is peculiar that, of the entire animal kingdom, it is only with humans that the female has to be the attractive one. ;-) Is it patriarchal to say that women should be attractive to their husbands? Possibly. But it strikes me as unfair for a wife to gain fifty pounds after marriage. And I colored my hair until my husband died because he didn't like the grey.
Attacking Melania will always get my dander up. She is such a gracious and beautiful woman who never deserved the horrible treatment from the nasty media and Leftist harridans.
Aw. A Melania dig. That's sad.
men in power have the right to define what a woman should look like and reduce her to her appearance.
That would indeed be a "toxic dynamic," if it existed. But I'm pretty damn confident that even this man's female congregants, who might be expected to listen to him with more than either amusement or disdain, didn't afford him these "rights."
I'm not the biggest fan of that Corinthians passage or the similar one in Ephesians, but Mr. Wibble has the right of it - that spouses should consider themselves to "belong" to one another. Unfortunately people get to "wives, be submissive to your husbands" (in Ephesians) and stop, in high dudgeon or in smug satisfaction. But Paul's point is, marriage is a gift from God to keep us from treating our bodies with less than the respect that they deserve as the temples they are - to give us an acceptable outlet for our strong biological urges. It's not, and was never, to make the case that all men have any right to expect all women to smile pretty for them - only that husbands and wives should make themselves physically available to one another, rather than using harlots or self-abuse. It is better to marry than to burn.
Paul... What a fun guy he must have been at parties.
Women should strive to be attractive. Men should too. Our society in general would be better and healthier if we dropped the “healthy at any size” nonsense. The delusional self love fat empowerment (“I’m beautiful!” shrieks the 400 pound heifer) is going to kill us. In fact, it probably killed a lot of people in the last year.
Also, American studies isn’t a real academic discipline.
And the opposite of patriarchy is not matriarchy, which implies motherhood. No, it's the harping, miserable feminists who only want to destroy, not build, families.
Sadly, rampant obesity is reflective of an overall decline in self-control. Your weight is one of those few, precious things over which only you have control. There are cultural incentives to overeat but whether or not to indulge is really only up to you. When I was young, I could eat anything I wanted and never gained a pound but, as I age, it becomes more of a challenge. It's still up to me whether or not to have that bowl of ice cream.
The biggest health crisis in the US is not the pandemic, but obesity. America, home the Whopper.
“... men in power have the right to define what a woman should look like and reduce her to her appearance ...”
Not mentioned: the fashion industry or Cosmopolitan magazine. Females obsess over comparing themselves to other females, and competing with them for social status and male attention, from a very early age.
It’s innate and internal, and it’s ridiculous to assert that if only men would stop being unreasonable then women would be free at last to not care about their appearance. Right? That’s laughable.
"The biggest health crisis in the US is not the pandemic, but obesity. America, home the Whopper."
This is a crisis in any country with a food surplus. There was a book a few years back in which the photographer traveled around the world, getting families to place all their possessions in front of their house.
In the back, he had an index of the countries he visited along with their obesity rates. I was impressed that the percentage of obese in France was surprisingly high. Other countries had similar rates.
Our bodies are made to store fat against the lean times. It's biology, just like there are two genders. But you can't say that nowadays, either.
But we're Americans, so the fingers always point to us.
Yes, both husbands and wives should try to stay attractive for their spouse. But what men and women find attractive, on average, is different. A man finds a fat, nagging wife about as attractive as a woman finds a man who can't or won't hold a job.
What a large slow moving target this story is for the MSM. Patriarchy, sexism, fat shaming, Jesus/Christianity and as an extra added double bonus Trump and Melania. Sheesh...
Clearly, this pastor was directly incited by Trump.
Let's impeach Trump again.
Nobody comes off good in this article.
men in power have the right to define what a woman should look like and reduce her to her appearance.... Melania models that
Isn't it Ms. Wilson who has reduced Melania to her appearance. If Trump wanted a piece of ass, and Melania wanted to live in Manhattan and fly private, then good on them for finding each other. It seems they're each a means to an end for each other. It's their business.
That said, the sermon sounded pretty lame. Lose weight and wear makeup. Har har. For those who can be "the epic trophy wife," hopefully they can pull better than a bloated sleazebag 25 years their senior.
@unknown:
Also, American studies isn’t a real academic discipline.
What is a "real academic discipline"?
Not the media
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2021/03/08/foia-release-showcases-fbi-small-group-coordinating-with-media-to-push-russia-narrative-in-2017-exactly-as-suspected/
Maybe local women agree with him. (Tried reading dailymail article but the page crashed due to some scripting error).
Let’s dive deeper here. Is it our job, as people who don’t live there, don’t go to that church, don’t understand local culture, customs, or history, don’t know any of these people as individuals, to creep on their world and pass judgment on it?
How is that not pure voyeurism?
It was noted that the reason feminists have butch, died hair, steel sticking out of their faces and covered in tattoos is to make themselves as least attractive to men as possible.
It's the one thing feminism got right. Works like a charm.
No agenda here
http://www.buffalo.edu/news/experts/kari-winter-faculty-expert-gender-race.html
No, Girls Just Wanna Have... Uncomfortable Clothing that makes them look like cheap, uncomfortable whores! Written by a woman. Published in that fine whipeepo rag you regularly read us, annie, the NYT.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/09/style/high-heels-corsets-covid.html
Got two paragraphs in and found this:
The torture devices of fashion, previously demonized as tools to disempower women (cocktail dresses, corsets, pantyhose, awkwardly sized handbags)
This... is utter fantasy as anyone with any knowledge of fashion history knows. If your clothing is uncomfortable, then you don't know how to dress.
He's not wrong but geez there are so many fat men now! Esp in the midwest. Fat men in full beards to cover their fat faces and in cargo shorts because they can't get the jeans on anymore.
It's a common type now. So, back at ya pastor.
Chicks should totally stop taking care of themselves and make themselves completely unattractive to their men.
Then they should totally complain to their female friends about how they can't get a man or how the man they have won't fuck them anymore.
An equal burden to be sexually appealing should be placed on both the husband and the wife or you are arguing that sex is a medium of exchange for the woman and the man is offering something other than sex. That's a lowly arrangement that should not be palmed off as Christianity.
Also there's a big difference between encouraging people to be healthy and pushing artificial things like makeup (especially heavy makeup that is comparable to spackle).
It is SO complicated these days. Although internally, I feel the same, I must confess I am no longer young enough to get hyped up with rage/outrage about such stories. Perhaps, the pastor was looking for a way out after twenty plus years of looking at his ever expanding congregation, listening to their interspousal complaints, and finally speaking truth to power: "You are all too fat for your own good. I'm going fishing."
All of this reinforces a creeping thought I have daily: I'm GLAD I'm not young anymore.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cN-49qYHMGY
Pastor isn't wrong. It's politically incorrect to say so like he did. off with his head!
mid western wiminz often let themselves go after marriage and children. It's not healthy. He should have used that angle.
"He's wrong. For a lot of reasons and it's the height of silliness to think Paul was writing about that in 1 Cor 7. Healthy is good, but that's not what he was saying he was saying."
I just reread that. Paul says many things there! But it's quite obvious that, according to Paul, if you ARE married and a Christian, you should never even be considering having sex with someone other than your spouse. The only other option is no sex at all — and that's definitely better — but if you're already married or unable to live without sex, then be completely devoted to each other sexually. There's no going any lower than that!
The looking pretty is so that your husband's friends see that the husband is worth something. The husband doesn't care sexually. Familiarity takes over the judgment.
Until women are equal wage earners, they DO have to fix themselves and try to land a man because he can provide for her.
>>
Women are equal wage earners.
They more frequently choose different, lower paying jobs.
They also choose more frequently to stay home after having kids which puts them on a permanently different career/earnings track.
Therefore, they will more frequently choose a man "to provide" for them.
And so to compete with other women, what do they do?
Keep reading, it gets worse.
Pretty much tells us, "Women like cheap uncomfortable clothing because it excites them..."
These are the women who bought the Shades of Grey book.
It excites them because they think it excites men. The unspoken truth: that women dress to attract men, and secondly to demonstrate their attractiveness as a form of dominance over other women.
I have a passing interest in historical costume and one of the lessons I've gathered over the years, besides that corsets were not torture devices but in fact were often more comfortable than a bra, is that in the past clothing was expected to shape the body into the ideal. Undergarments providing structure, the way clothing was cut, the use of patterns and certain fabrics, all of it combined to create an ideal figure and hide the flaws. Compare that to today, where young women stuff themselves into "skinny" jeans until their legs look like sausage casings and their muffin tops spill out under a thin t-shirt. Young men are swallowed up by baggy pants and hoodies. Give me the old days of a suit and tie, slacks and suspenders, anything else but this crap.
#Makebustleskirtsgreatagain
flabby faith... flabby morals.... flabby body...
It's the trinity for mere mortals... to work on.
There are other groups of three.
Until women are equal wage earners, they DO have to fix themselves and try to land a man because he can provide for her.
And if that pie in the sky standard is ever met, women STILL are going to have to fix themselves up, because what you described is pure human biology. Men are physically attracted to women who can provide children for him, and women want men who will give her children and be provided for and protected. 100 years of feminism hasn't changed human nature, and isn't going to no matter how much womyn think otherwise.
Hold the pickles! Hold the lettuce!
Special orders don’t upset us
All we ask is that you let us
Serve it your way!
“Praise God for makeup,” he said. “It’s like Bondo for dented vehicles. And it’s like crack filler for your drywall.”
as they Say:
Men think Visually, Women think Verbally...That's Why men Lie; and women wear makeup
further reading - Yeah- that is lame stand-up. yowza.
Well salafi preachers say stone then and then get another wife.
A Baptist preacher giving a few new rules for his legalist congregation to fail follow is not Christianity. And there's more in the New Testament telling women not to rely on their outward appearance than his congregation wants to hear about.
Jealousy will get you Hillary ... Embrace the suck.
What is a "real academic discipline"?
Math, Geology, Chemistry, Biology, Physics, History, Economics (maybe), Archaeology(maybe), Literature, Languages.
Marginally academic because they are subjective and able to be used/distorted as propagandist tools, Social Sciences of any kind, Political Science. But, mostly a giant waste of time.
Not a discipline or academic...Art classes, Women's Studies, Black Studies...etc etc etc etc ....Grievance classes.
If you add in political correctness or SJW agendas.... ALL studies cease to be academic and also cease to be disciplined.
men in power have the right to define what a woman should look like and reduce her to her appearance.
Is that true? It seems that women often dress to impress other women. And those fashion magazines that women read to get inspiration for their looks are not run by heterosexual men.
@AA: An equal burden to be sexually appealing should be placed on both the husband and the wife or you are arguing that sex is a medium of exchange for the woman and the man is offering something other than sex. That's a lowly arrangement that should not be palmed off as Christianity.
Men bring resources to the table. Women bring their fertility. In the olden times, the guy who was brave and strong enough to kill a mastodon got all the chicks. These days, it’s the guy with a yacht and a private jet. The female’s half of the bargain has changed rather less since then. It is a natural and efficient arrangement that long preceded Christianity and will persist long after the last of us is shot in a gulag.
My twenty-seven year old daughter, with a head full of feminist claptrap she picked up in college and an extra forty or fifty pounds she needs to lose, is becoming very unhappy at her inability to land a good quality boyfriend. When I point out the realities baked in the cake by millions of years of evolutionary pressures, I’m the patriarchal asshole...
Shes another sjw hack, who probably slobbered over michelle obama, who spent summers in marbella hanging with oligarchs and saudi princes.
Shouting Thomas said...
Since I’ve played for Catholic, Baptist, Episcopal and Methodist services, let me tell you what happens when churches embrace feminism, gaydom and female and gay male pastors.
The congregation walks out the door.
there was a evangelical "mega church" (actually, only had 600-800 people) in Nashville, that came out for same sex marriage, and the whole LGBTQWERTY dogma
THEN their membership dropped by More than half, and they had to
Sell their big church,
lay off Most of their staff
Today, they no longer believe the Bible is the Word of God.
Needless to say, their membership is now close to non existent
If your church "preaches" the same values you get from netflix; WHY would you bother going to Church?
Why NOT Stay home?
Paul was so much on point, he was also right about idiot preachers, who cause their followers to stumble.
@Wendybar
"Jealousy will get you Hillary ... Embrace the suck."
If Hillary had, someone else wouldn't have had to.
The pastor is citing scripture, but her sermon sounds like it was pillford from Cosmopolitan, or dozens of other magazines catering to women.
"Ten Ways to Catch and Keep Your Man"
@DavidUW
"Chicks should totally stop taking care of themselves and make themselves completely unattractive to their men."
They're way ahead of you David. They've been doing that now for 10 years.
who wants to be a civil engineer or something useful... when you can be an expert on woke grievance and victimology...
Mr. Wibble opines: Give me the old days of a suit and tie
I've often wondered about the attraction for the 'suit and tie'. Sure, the tie is the obvious phallic symbol but men wear suits and ties for other men--as a mark of status [depending on the quality of the above] or of conforming, being a member of the team. Maybe some women find the male uniform appealing. I say, bring back the tights and codpiece! ;-)
He seems as flimsy as joel osteen, he gives me hives.
"That's a lowly arrangement that should not be palmed off as Christianity"/"Men bring resources to the table. Women bring their fertility. In the olden times..."
Yeah. As I said. That's not Christianity. Prostitution, broadly understood, is something that arises from our natural conditions. If you want to argue that's where we belong and where we should stay, then you could argue for slavery and murder and theft just as well.
Gilbar @8:35 AM, you are right. If a church serves Satan, Christians have no place there.
It would have worked had the preacher himself looked like Brad Pitt or that guy who advertises for Calvin Kline undies.
*it's a joke*
"My twenty-seven year old daughter, with a head full of feminist claptrap she picked up in college and an extra forty or fifty pounds she needs to lose, is becoming very unhappy at her inability to land a good quality boyfriend. When I point out the realities baked in the cake by millions of years of evolutionary pressures, I’m the patriarchal asshole..."
Key word: cake
Advice: Maybe make great cakes and offer them to the fat males in her environment. I'll bet there are fat guys around her who would love to cook with her and share conversations about feminism and how her dad thinks it's all "claptrap."
Another Dispatch from the Hinterlands.
Forgive him Lord, for he is a mere mortal in need of a hot date... He looketh out to the rotund congregation and he sees no Melanias. Oh Lord, where are all the Melania's?
If you want to argue that's where we belong and where we should stay, then you could argue for slavery and murder and theft just as well.
I don't take it that way.
There is a baseline for human behavior. That baseline, has a baseline. Mammals. You may bristle at the realization that relationships are transactional, but it has always been so.
The conflict always centers about exactly what of value is being traded, by each party.
"men in power have the right to define what a woman should look like and reduce her to her appearance"
When was the last time that happened?
As we all recall, young Althouse insisted on wearing a miniskirt to school, and the principal in power claimed the right to tell her she should look more modest. Who was "reducing her to her appearance"?
Good one April. Reminds me of the scene on the municipal bus in Fight Club where Tyler Durden, Mr. Eight-Pack, makes fun of a Calvin Klyde men's underwear ad.
Jack and Mrs. Spratt always seemed so happy to me.
I've often wondered about the attraction for the 'suit and tie'. Sure, the tie is the obvious phallic symbol but men wear suits and ties for other men--as a mark of status [depending on the quality of the above] or of conforming, being a member of the team. Maybe some women find the male uniform appealing. I say, bring back the tights and codpiece! ;-)
The suit and tie, or it's predecessors, tend to flatter the male figure by broadening the shoulders and creating and "V" shape. In addition, the use of matching or contrasting fabrics can be aesthetically pleasing as well.
I'm not sure about the codpiece, but I'd be down for reintroducing breeches.
The only sensible criticism of a pastor's sermon is based on Christianity. Its irrelevant what atheist's and non-Christians think. There is no "Sexism" in Christianity. I would agree that both spouses should keep themselves fit and as good looking as possible for their spouse. but even single people should regard their body as God's Temple.
That the Pastor couldn't live up to his words, doesn't make the words incorrect. Its like saying we shouldn't listen to a Fat Doctor who tells us to lose weight.
The reality is that everyone is going to age and not be as attractive as they were when they were young. Deal with it.
Sexual attraction is really only one component of a marriage. A very important one especially when you are younger, just beginning into your relationship. That component will wax and wane over time for all sorts of reasons, including medical. Deal with that too.
HOWEVER, other factors like personality, compatibility in life outlooks, sense of humor, friendship with your partner... to name a few are far more important in the long term.
Being married doesn't mean that you (generic and not gendered) should not continue to take care of yourself, stop caring about how you look and become a fat, untidy slob. It doesn't give you license to not give a flying eff about you or what your partner thinks. You should, men and women, always take the trouble to try to be attractive and healthy, as best you can, out of consideration not just for yourself, but also your partner. That street goes both ways.
If your partner is ONLY attracted to the physical/sex component, the outside of your body and there is no compatibility...you might as well just hang up the relationship and call it a day.
The end.
I'm looking forward to a wapo article mocking a rabbi or Islamic leader saying something "Sexist". Oh right, that's DIFFERENT.
"An equal burden to be sexually appealing should be placed on both the husband and the wife or you are arguing that sex is a medium of exchange for the woman and the man is offering something other than sex. That's a lowly arrangement that should not be palmed off as Christianity."
Sex is a medium of exchange for the woman more than for the man. That doesn't mean it should only be a medium or that is cannot turn into something better.
For much of human history, the man was offering, and had to offer, something other than sex. Most people did not, and do not, have the luxury to call it lowly.
It all depends on what the meaning of equal is. The weight of the burden varies by desire, need, context, and, gasp, biology. The equal burden feels different for women with young children and women post-menopause.
Looks wise, woman start out at the top and work their way down. Men seem to get more attractive to women till they reach about 35-40, then its a steep descent. Its why you get 55 year old Cary Grant with 25 year old Audrey Hepburn.
Well orthodox rabbis are fair game, as we have seen in the last moral oanic
A hollowed out church of england is why islam is the most popular faith in that country.
Are people ever going to stop arguing that looks aren't important to women or the way we value them? That's never been true in any society, ever. Women, themselves, judge other woman on how they look. That's just life. Men get judged on their looks too. Funny, how we haven't had a short, bald, President since...ever. There's almost a direct correlation between men's height and their chance to become leaders. The only it doesn't happen is when some other factor, like intelligence, is more highly valued.
Women will never be equal to men until they can walk down the street with a bald head and a beer gut, and still think they are sexy
Feminism is, indeed, all claptrap... Marxist claptrap at that. Feminism is simply evil.
Your childhood drama queen attachment to feminism is every bit as damaging to society as prostitution, theft, murder and slavery.
Your gay worship and feminism are what led to woke totalitarianism, prof. You thought your New Man/New Woman thing would stop at “sensible” conclusions.
As Mensheviks always are, you were wrong. You’re quite pig headed, and you refuse to see what you created.
We did, indeed, slide down the slippery slope you built. Every campus now has an indoctrination center for your evil, claptrap ideology, manned by dykes looking for fresh meat.
My grandchildren will be forced to salute that evil feminist ideology in grade school.
Because of feminism and gay worship, most kids growing up with my grandkids will never go to church, never learn the Ten Commandments.
This is on you, prof.
You really fucked up.
Life starts out as a genetic lottery.
Some people are born beautiful and some are not.
I don't think there is much doubt that within cultures there is an objective standard of physical beauty.
Luck 'o' the draw.
Then get on with your life and try not to get any bad haircuts.
And guys, no shorts for you.
Just checked...Baptist. Didn't think he was Catholic.
Every time I read Althouse or Andrew Sullivan bemoaning woke totalitarianism, I think:
“What in the fuck are you talking about? You made this happen.”
This is one reason I quit being Protestant. I can't imagine any Orthodox Priest spouting this carnal nonsense from the pulpit.
Obviously people should look after their own bodies and be healthy, but not for the purpose of vanity, pride or carnal pleasure. That's not Christian at all.
In some pictures, the pastor doesn't look all that bad. He's overweight rather than fat. If he had a few hundred million dollars, women like Melania would consider him quite attractive.....He phrased it the wrong way, but gluttony and not lust is the great sin of our time. It's far easier to sit down to a great meal than to bed down with a hot sex partner.....I don't take pride in my sexual temperance. I'm in my late seventies and I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times hot women have attempted to lead me astray. I do take pride in the fact that I'm not fat. Every day in every way, I get tempted and seduced by great food. I can't go one hundred yards in any direction without passing a terrific restaurant or worthwhile bakery. (All bakeries are worthwhile and every chocolate croissant is created in God's image.).....Maybe if people took more of an interest in sex they could use that as a counterweight to their weight problems.
This is one reason I quit being Protestant. I can't imagine any Orthodox Priest spouting this carnal nonsense from the pulpit.
Obviously people should look after their own bodies and be healthy, but not for the purpose of vanity, pride or carnal pleasure. That's not Christian at all.
Every time I read Althouse or Andrew Sullivan bemoaning woke totalitarianism, I think:
“What in the fuck are you talking about? You made this happen.”
Yup. But they didn't intend for this consequence, so that somehow makes it alright, despite the fact that we warned them this would be the outcome.
"Women are pressured from the time we’re born to believe that if we support patriarchal power, we’re going to be rewarded[.]"
Not rewarded. That's not the deal.
Protected.
That's the deal.
Get your theory of the patriarchy screwed on right.
Baptists, with their innumerable potlucks are partly responsible for the rampant obesity.
I was in a first rate BBQ place in a day before quarantine. I saw this morbidly fat guy walk by with his plate piled high. I was not judgmental. The Homeric Achilles observed that a prudent life does not offer immortality and that it was better to seek glory and lasting fame on the battlefield. There's no glory in the high piled plates of BBQ, but there's much joy and satisfaction in their consumption and no one lives forever....Gluttons know joys beyond the reach of satyrs, and it's all readily available. Maybe satyrs stay thin because the pursuit of sex burns more calories than the sex act.
ST is right about the slippery slope. Any time we warn that some 'progressive' measure will represent that slippery slope, we are scoffed at.
"Because of feminism and gay worship, most kids growing up with my grandkids will never go to church, never learn the Ten Commandments."
I am not one to push religion on anyone.
But I was watching a show last night on a mainstream network, and was struck by the coarseness of our society that seemed to have happened slowly and then suddenly.
Constant promos for Rue Paul's show about drag queens.
And ads featuring pretty girls in very skimpy clothing hawking some chat line...essentially a phone sex service thinly disguised.
TV and radio are bombarded with ads for 'satisfying your wife/girlfriend in the bedroom.' How to 'get bigger and last longer.'
These days this is standard AM radio fare, not even satellite/subscription stuff.
We are no longer asked to be accepting or tolerant of the sexual fetishes and fantasies of others, we are being asked to celebrate them publicly.
If we keep going down this path, soon that celebration will be demanded of us.
I trust NOTHING from the WaPoo (the NYT, too!)
"Baptists, with their innumerable potlucks are partly responsible for the rampant obesity."
We would take our non-Catholic (from Oklahoma) friends to events at our kid's Catholic school...auctions, crab feeds, etc.
They were amazed at how much liquor there was...a bar every 30 feet and wine on every table.
They liked it : )
@Lucid
I know. The typical under 30 American chick is not only fat but fat in a way that speaks of never having been thin or ever having exercised. Ditto for guys.
Reason #40,000,000 why I don’t date American women. They’re truly the worst in the world.
"You may bristle at the realization that relationships are transactional, but it has always been so."
I promote the realization. I highlight it. Because I want women to reject an arrangement that sells sex. Sex should be way better than that for women. It should be an even exchange. Sex for sex. If you're giving sex in exchange for economic support and you'd pick somebody else if you were purely exchanging sex for sex, I think that's worse-than-nothing sex. It's fine to get economic benefits in a marriage, but if F is bringing sexual benefits and M is bringing money, you're in the same conceptual category as prostitution. Of course, there has "always been" prostitution. But I strongly urge women to find a way to live that is nothing like prostitution and to save your sexuality for your own sexual benefit.
"But I was watching a show last night on a mainstream network, and was struck by the coarseness of our society that seemed to have happened slowly and then suddenly. Constant promos for Rue Paul's show about drag queens. And ads featuring pretty girls in very skimpy clothing hawking some chat line...essentially a phone sex service thinly disguised. TV and radio are bombarded with ads for 'satisfying your wife/girlfriend in the bedroom.' How to 'get bigger and last longer.'..."
What show were you watching? We watched a show yesterday where every ad was for some form of medicine or other. Our show was "Aerial America." The ads tell you who they think is watching.
Joe Smith: Althouse doesn't watch sports. ;-) [As a rule].
Oh yes. Melania. But the softcore porn queens of Hollywoody are pillars of feminism.
"What show were you watching?"
'Yellowstone.' We don't get Paramount Network but they did a 'free' marathon of the show. We heard it was good so I set it up to record.
And it was a slightly edited version (swearing intact but tits blurred) so they must have known they'd be reaching a broader audience.
Yes, I understand that advertisers target their audiences.
When we watch 'Everybody Love Raymond' the 'old folks' ads are prominent.
But I am talking about not just TV but radio.
Especially what I call the 'dick pill' ads.
Women enthusiastically (ecstatically?) going on and on about her 'man's performance in the bedroom.'
This is not your typical ED stuff, but 'longer, bigger, harder' stuff.
What the hell is little Janey to think when these ads are playing as mommy takes her to school and they're on AM news stations?
I am not a prude by any means (trust me), but shouldn't there be some things that don't need to be promoted on public airways?
Sure, 'cable TV,' I get it. But how do you explain the radio?
The slippery slope argument isn't even applicable anymore...we're getting near the bottom already.
Barn door/horse. Some assembly required.
‘Advice: Maybe make great cakes and offer them to the fat males in her environment. I'll bet there are fat guys around her who would love to cook with her and share conversations about feminism and how her dad thinks it's all "claptrap."’
And that’s just what she wants for a boy friend, a “fat guy” to cook with while they discuss the claptrap that is feminism. ROTFLMAO!
"The really toxic dynamic is it’s not so much which model of womanhood but that men in power have the right to define what a woman should look like and reduce her to her appearance..."
The really toxic dynamic is it's not so much which model of manhood but that hot chicks have the right to define what a man should be and reduce him to the fulfillment of her fondest dreams.
Tit, meet Tat.
I'm not an expert on what attracts Christians to church.
I can tell you from my own limited experience that it's clear that modern Christianity is attempting to lighten-up and inject humor. A move away from the stern and uptight arrangement between the pastor and the congregation. laughter and light-heated joy mixed with scripture keep people coming back. Same with the music. The old dreary hymns are replaced with rock and roll, country or modern sounds. Not everyone's cup of tea. and now Churches are offering the buffet of style.
Yeah - guess what - some of these goof balls are gonna get it wrong.
But it's OK for leftists to mock Christians and to go on with their nauseating Hunter Bidenesque Hollywood hot tube boys. and Jeffrey Epstein did not kill himself.
hot tub (not tube)
"hot tub (not tube)"
In that context, hot tube works too : )
The old dreary hymns are replaced with rock and roll, country or modern sounds.
The Methodist hymnal absolutely rocks with revival tent foot stompers.
Rock and roll and country (and blues) emerged from that tradition.
Those old hymns are anything but dreary. I love them. I played them for Methodist services for 2 years and always found fresh inspiration in them.
Not rewarded. That's not the deal.
Protected.
That's the deal.
Get your theory of the patriarchy screwed on right.
This.
"The really toxic dynamic" is that men are attracted to what they're attracted to. Woe to any man who verbalizes what most men think.
That last comment about Melania exhibits prejudice against beauty. She was successful as a model and had a successful business that supported her well before Trump met her. She speaks multiple languages and appears to have an active life outside her marriage. There is no evidence that she regards herself as subservient. They can't bear the idea that she loves and supports her husband and is also lovely.
Every time I watch TV, which is almost never, its either Beer commercials or someone selling a pill or medical product. of course I only watch PBS, sports, and news. I also change the channel when the commercials are on, or go do something else.
A few years ago I *was* shocked by commercials selling hard liquor. How is it good for society to glamorize and encourage drinking vodka and whiskey? They might as well allow cigarettes' advertising.
Joe Smith - lol.
"Because I want women to reject an arrangement that sells sex. Sex should be way better than that for women. It should be an even exchange."
At least between men and fertile women, the exchange can't be just sex-for-sex. The woman also is bargaining for support for her potential offspring. Of course, contraceptives give women more control and the law now gives them ways to coerce such support without actual commitment, but the stakes are nonetheless different for women.
Even among long-married couples, sex-for-sex is typically not equal, since partners may give different priority to sexual pleasure, which means that, in an otherwise egalitarian relationship, one will "give" sex in exchange for something else non-sexual.
Sex-for-sex is not the best deal for young women.
The Roman Catholic Gospel readings rotate through the same material during a year, and hearing the same readings on Christmas, Easter, and other holy days year after year provided a comforting familiarity with the story of Christ for those of us who grew up in the pre-woke world. I recall only a few Sermons from my youth. Take that as a measure of the importance of the Gospel itself versus the preaching from the pulpit.
Whether we like it or not [and whether we admit to it or not], we are partly products of what we consume in the way of entertainment. I'm hoping to wean myself off sports and then ditch my cable TV [all TV]. Books, by and large, are better for us, IMO. And no commercials. [One more ad about Peyronie's Disease and I'll scream. I can't even look at a chili pepper or a banana now without thinking of PD!].
Yesterday, Not the Bee had an interesting and all-too-true article about woke churches: Here's the trajectory your church will take once it's gone woke. This apostasy was well-predicted in the Bible. Christians, run, don't walk, away from these churches!
Steven Wright: "My friend married a trophy wife" "It wasn't for first place"
Men and women strive to normalize a favorable juxtaposition of the sexes.
Fat is beautiful is a comorbidity that produced excess deaths before, during, and after the pandemic is long forgotten.
Healthy women will generally experience easier pregnancy, birth, and recovery. Healthy men will generally be more capable of helping their wife. And together, the couple will be more functional, and perhaps live happier lives, together.
Steven Wright: "My friend married a trophy wife" "It wasn't for first place"
Hopefully, the wife will have a mutual sentiment, dancing together until the end of love.
Feminism and gay worship have become, literally, the new state religion.
Indoctrination in this religion begins in grade school and continues throughout college.
This is a violation of the establishment clause. Conservatives should bring lawsuits to stop this unconstitutional practice.
ST @2:21, good point! Back in the 90's there was a movement to stop the purveyance of secularism, the state religion [didn't have legs] but this is beyond secularism. It is idolatry.
"Feminism and gay worship have become, literally, the new state religion.
Indoctrination in this religion begins in grade school and continues throughout college.
True from my experience...
Reminds me of high school teachers who always only ever talked about some pet peeve they had that day. It seems like every large public school had somebody like that.
One good thing about Melania was that she didn't take up space in people's minds. Nobody was that interested in her, and more importantly, they didn't pretend to be. That was refreshing after all the phony enthusiasm for Hillary or Michelle or Jill. Pastor should have just let her be and not make her a symbol of his own.
Kari J. Winter, for all her education, doesn't seem to understand that sexual market value is what makes the world go ‘round. Her statement that, "Women are pressured from the time we’re born to believe that if we support patriarchal power, we’re going to be rewarded...” is such a load. Every woman knows that her market value declines over time whether it be from age or, in our current culture, a little too much mileage on the tires. If there is pressure is comes from within female circles vying for the attention of a finite resource: upper tier men with potentially good genes who will produce strong, attractive progeny. But then maybe she’s just angry that she’s hit the wall and still unmarried.
@Mr. Wibble - You and I could fill hours discussing this. The quoted article text in your posts at 7:55 and 8:13 AM made me laugh out loud. Clearly this woman has never worn a corset, or spent any time in properly fitted undergarments. Yes, there’s a ‘getting used to it’ aspect, but no worse than being a twelve year old girl in her first training bra. I will agree on the pantyhose part. They are diabolical.
My hobby is historical costuming, and for a time a portion of my personal wardrobe consisted of garments sewn from vintage dress patterns from the 30s, and 40s. You cannot properly wear those garments without having the structure underneath to maintain the silhouette. It just won't work. I wish I had a reason (other than a personal challenge) to create an entire 18th century court gown from the inside out. http://www.starlightmasquerade.com/portfolio/pompadour-style-robe-a-la-francaise/#!prettyPhoto
KellyM: What a fascinating hobby! I've always liked Elizabethan peasant clothing.
"KellyM: What a fascinating hobby! I've always liked Elizabethan peasant clothing."
Ace does a 'Dress Pron' thread (combined with a chess thread) on Saturdays I think...
http://acecomments.mu.nu/?post=393078
Mock: "Baptists, with their innumerable potlucks are partly responsible for the rampant obesity." And Lutherans. And anywhere women gather.
God forgive me, but I don't want to eat another casserole that was lovingly prepared 6 hours ago, now covered with bacteria, and the 'droplets' of a dozen others.
I do admire that women flock to obese men who cry. Women do that, right? I've never met one, but I'm pretty sure they do that because they don't want to be held to any physical standards for themselves. Obviously they would never have physical standards for men.
Finally. Shouting Thomas: Ann as a Menshevik. It all falls into place.
Hercules, I've never liked potlucks, either. My husband flatly refused to attend any.
Oh...and birthday cakes. When a 3 year old spits all over the cake, blowing out the candles, it's kinda cute. My immune system can handle anything that squeak might have.
After that and 80 year old grandma or grandpa spits all over the cake blowing out the candles.
I just say, None for me, I'm on a diet.
"Women are pressured from the time we’re born to believe that if we support patriarchal power, we’re going to be rewarded..."
Nothing about the term "First Lady" denies that, either.
"The really toxic dynamic is it’s not so much which model of womanhood but that men in power have the right to define what a woman should look like and reduce her to her appearance.... Melania models that."
Oh, fuck off. Men comment on looks just as women do. Men don't make women dance on tables, they do it themselves.
@ mockturtle: I got my start in early Medieval clothing - in this case my love of historical romance novels was my gateway drug - and then branched out from there.
@ Joe Smith: I check that post every Saturday. The linked Twitter pics are just spectacular. And I like that pics of the Duchess of Cambridge are included. Always tasteful.
@Crack: you said it better than I.
Dust Bunny Queen,
Why is everyone always ragging on the art history majors? In another thread yesterday, I pointed to three great music historians I'd had the privilege of taking graduate classes with.
(NB: There were more, obviously, but I didn't have coursework with all of them. Still, I ought to have thrown in Joseph Kerman, also deceased, from whom I took a first-semester seminar on the Beethoven quartets. Richard Crocker I never had a class with, but the year I had a bed-sit near his house, he'd routinely give me lifts to campus in his Caddy [vanity plate: HUCBALD]. Philip Brett, another deceased, moved to UC/Riverside before his death. John Butt was with us for awhile, and now has moved back to Helensburgh, Scotland, where he's a very active conductor and keyboardist as well as a musicologist. We had it good at Berkeley.)
But whenever someone has a "useless" degree, and it isn't Grievance Studies, it's always art history. In the name of God, why? If it's that most of the art is 20th c., I can understand, but earlier fine art is connected up very closely to both music and literature. Heartz, my advisor, was always connecting all three; it made him an even better scholar. He and Bonnie Wade, the department's lead ethnomusicologist (a specialist in North Indian classical music) co-taught a course in music and images that I took; between her Mughal imagery and Heartz on Fragonard and the like, it was fascinating.
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