Luke Mogelson wrote "Among the Insurrectionists/The Capitol was breached by Trump supporters who had been declaring, at rally after rally, that they would go to violent lengths to keep the President in power. A chronicle of an attack foretold" (The New Yorker), which I linked to, here, on the 15th.
I had many complicated feelings watching that video, so I'm inviting you to begin the conversation. I am more averse to disorder and efforts to occupy territory than most people, but very much pro- free expression.
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295 comments:
1 – 200 of 295 Newer› Newest»Basest emotions? I think anyone who says that has lived a sheltered life. Also there is probably no suggestion that the endless street protests of 2020 showed us the basest emotions--it has to be Trump supporters. Is it impossible to imagine a storming of some deliberative assembly that is more or less perfectly just?
Ugh! Sorry. I embedded the wrong video. The video advanced to the next video. It's fixed now. It should be a 12 minute video.
Those yearning to 'bend the arc' are comfortable that they know best who needs to be bent.
I am Laslo.
"We have to do the work of bending it."
IOW, off to the reeducation campus with you, deplorables.
Curious if those wetting their pants over the Capitol "riot" were as upset about the riots and violence the Liberals/Democrats created on the day of Trump's inauguration?
Yeah.
I thought so.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ocb-S26BdRA&t=302s
Make sure you watch the right video, the one where you see the break-in and lots of action inside the Senate chamber.
Is this propagandist Luke Mogelson, an insurrectionist in his own right, going to face charges for invading the sacred halls of democracy in the Capitol?
I cannot fathom how a peaceful rally for Trump - turned into an open door welcome mat for mayhem at the Capitol. If FBI heard chatter- and admit they did - where was the security?
Lots of splicing there - New Yorker.
I saw video of police officers letting people simply walk through the doors.
I saw a video of the chamber being evacuated, and it appeared really calm. What was that?
I saw a video of staff walking down a staircase to evacuate - and they were not really panicked at all. What was that? why were only Trump supporters killed? Ashli Babbit was a Trump supporter. Who killed her and why?
Where is the same type of film, showcased by The New Yorker, showcasing Antifa's destruction in Portland?
I've seen a lot of real evidence and images of some horrific stuff there.
What happened at the capitol... was it planned - or was it an outburst of anger?
I would say if all of that is real Trump supporters - they really screwed up the cause. Which makes me wonder...
(silly guy in horns/ painted face - who does he support? - or is he just crazy?)
Is it OK to question the splice, the emotional manipulation, and the narrative?
Luke Mogelson has been a war correspondent. He takes his risks. I don't know exactly how that is analyzed. You can see in the video that the police and the rioters all see him as another one of the rioters.
I think I'll go knit some shrouds.
I watched through, but for this kind of commentary to have any persuasive weight, there needs to be a recognition that this isn't a January 6, 2021 problem -- or even a 2020 problem! We've been seeing social media used to spread lies which in turn kick off riots since at least the Ferguson riots back in 2014 ("Hands up don't shoot"). More recently, the riots kicked off by the Jacob Blake shooting were exacerbated by falsehoods about whether he was armed (he was armed with a knife) and whether he knew about the warrant for his arrest (he had texted about it). Similarly, while I don't think there was any violence, over summer 2020, a bonkers conspiracy theory about the postal service somehow spread through social media, and then got further promoted by irresponsible journalists and politicians.
Presenting the problem they way it is presented in this video -- with the choice of images and rhetoric -- as though the capitol riots were the first time we saw something like this, signals to me either that the speaker is speaking in bad faith, or that the speaker hasn't really been thinking about this issue at all. I'm not saying that someone has to accept my framing to be persuasive. But when there's a wealth of highly relevant, destructive, deadly examples out there and you don't grapple with them at all, it makes the entire presentation look dishonest.
Now, maybe this chap made a similar video about social media and emotional bonds and rhetoric about "who we are" in connexion with the antifa/BLM riots, or the Ferguson riots, etc. I don't know this fellow's work -- maybe he's better than I think. But this small slice of it presents poorly.
@Althouse, the video was edited to manipulate your emotions. You get that, right?
Who are the people who broke in?
Will we ever know?
If not - why not?
We hear about a tid-bit about a small arrest here and there. Were there mass-arrests?
If no, why not?
the police and security, who are seen letting people walk past barricades and into doors, they were not prepared - yet we were told FBI heard chatter.
Seems insane that this was allowed to happen.
Well, this proves there weren't many antifa there. They would have toppled statues and set fire to everything.
Oh, I think it queued up the wrong video for me, haha. I got four minutes of some sad looking chap with NPR voice mumbling over mostly still images.
Watched it twice; with and without sound.
Excellent choice of pictures; Stars and Bars and Q flags.
Tucker Carlson said it best, "it was a political protest that got out of hand." DDB: No way was it an insurrection.
"Exaggeration is a form of lying." Baltasar Gracian, S.J.
The video was edited to make it look like the worst possible war-zone scene.
Luke seems to be astonished that the media business model is to generate controversy. Welcome to the real world, pal.
I saw parts of another video of 1-6. People wanted to make their displeasure known about the theft of the election.
Two movies on one screen.
Violent lengths 'rally after rally'?
Really? And that was never reported in any media?
Is it true that Pelosi and McConnell are responsible for the Capitol Police?
What did Nancy know and when did she know it?
This game is easy to play...
The chief resigned after calls from Pelosi to do so. An African-American woman replaced him, of course.
Regarding the new video: after all the media dark clamor about RIOT, it looks a lot more silly than threatening.
Change the backdrop and you could be watching a college-rivalry football pregame tailgate-party that got out-of-hand (especially compared to a lot of the Portland riot footage, where the intent to hurt is palpable).
A well-edited commercial for the previous video's arc-benders.
I am Laslo.
If it was a real insurrection they would have been heavily armed, they would have set fires and wrecked the art work.
That "ransacked" office? I've seen bigger messes at frat houses after a party.
"Luke Mogelson has been a war correspondent. He takes his risks. I don't know exactly how that is analyzed. You can see in the video that the police and the rioters all see him as another one of the rioters."
If he was there he should be arrested, tried, and sentenced to hard time in Leavenworth for domestic terrorism.
Those are the new rules. Get used to it.
That video had a lot of cuts... someone in another context might say deceptively edited.
Lol.
See Balfegor is right.
am i missing it or does Althouse no longer have an Amazon affiliate link? I've used affiliate links here and at Instapundit near-religiously for every purchase for years.
"but for this kind of commentary to have any persuasive weight"
Did you watch the right video? I had the wrong one up for a few minutes. The right one is up now, and I wouldn't characterize it as "commentary."
The 12 minute video: My favorite moment is when the guy is leafing through the ring binder in the Senate chamber looking for something he can use against the "scumbags." He comes upon a loose yellow sheet of paper, which he throws on the floor. The guy to his left (who was probably raised well) bends down and picks it up, wanting to put it back in the binder where it belonged.
Ann Althouse said...
Ugh! Sorry. I embedded the wrong video. The video advanced to the next video. It's fixed now. It should be a 12 minute video.
------------================
war correspondents seek out wars (and appreciate those who generate wars) or find /wars/ where they want to or pointed at …
I want to see the beginning : when and where Luke Mogelson embedded himself into the group to do this - how the group formed and morphed through out his excellent excursion.
otherwise the whole thing is manipulating without context >>> propaganda
"Oh, I think it queued up the wrong video for me, haha. I got four minutes of some sad looking chap with NPR voice mumbling over mostly still images."
Ah... good... sorry to burden your time.
So, when are we going to see a riot? I'm at 6 minutes in, and am still waiting...
Luke Mogelson is a war correspondent. So is Michael Yon. You can be sure The New Yorker won’t be sharing the latter’ s reports.
Was there a counter protest or was this the first protest from the Right that didn't have a counter protest from the Left?
Lesson of videos - they show you what they want to show you.
"am i missing it or does Althouse no longer have an Amazon affiliate link? I've used affiliate links here and at Instapundit near-religiously for every purchase for years."
Thanks for the heads-up. Something about that video embed was causing the sidebar to undisplay. I've set the video to appear after a click through.
The Amazon link is there. Thanks for using it. It makes a big contribution to this blog!
I thought the people in the Senate seemed confused about what to do, and they were not destructive. They seemed to be mostly looking for information, looking for something in the papers and saying out loud there must be *something* useful here. One guy was saying it's a "war of information" and what they needed was information.
Thanks Ann.
Complicated feelings?
Well, you need to start with your feelings about the election:
a) Definitely fair,
b) Fair outcome, only minor problems
c) Unfair outcome, significant problems
d) Hugely unfair outcome, horrible problems - NO justice in court (7-2 SCOTUS to avoid hearing evidence)
If you think (b) - what would make you think (c) instead? How many witnesses?
This was a "mostly peaceful".
On a scale 1-10 for protester violence only about 3. (March for Life - 1)
It was a cop who shot and killed an unarmed eager-to-trespass first thru the broken window pro-Trump protester, Ashli Babbitt.
How many anti-Trump Antifa provocateurs were there?
Calling it a "riot" is almost laughable - calling it an "assault against the Capitol" is a joke - where are protester weapons? Or even bricks being thrown?
“America first!” The phrase was popularized in 1940 by Nazi sympathizers
LOL. Those bullshitters never stop bullshitting.
ngram shows that the phase "America first" goes back to 1800, at least, and its popularity peaking around 1918.
Make sure you watch the right video,
I don't see any videos, right or wrong, at that stupid new yorker link; and none of the 9 occurrences of the word "video" in the tirade are links to a video.
?
"I am more averse to disorder and efforts to occupy territory than most people, but very much pro- free expression."
Well, isn't that special? So you are all for it, as long as it's easy, free, and without risk or effort. Perhaps a strongly worded letter would have sufficed. Pick a principle, or take a nap till it's over.
Do you have any suggestions as to how the Right can defend itself against the censorship banning, lying, cheating and violence being leveled against them on all fronts? If you do, do you have the guts to say it out loud with your "free speech".
This ugly fascism from the left and "center" is no different than the ones that preceded it in history. I'm proud that time will show that I didn't accept it, gloss it over, justify it, or ignore it, let alone help it along.
As I enter my senior years I think the coming resistance will likely be the defining event of my life. I wish it wasn't needed, but it will be an honor to face up to the sacrifice it may require. I literally have nothing better or more important to do with my remaining years, my accumulated stuff, and certainly my comfort. I expect to lose it all. They will give us no choice. That's how fascists roll every single time.
The group in the senate chamber was pretty respectful. That was good to see, despite the circumstances, which I do not condone. Have to admit the comment along the lines of well we’re here we might as well set up a govt made me laugh.
The few minutes at the other entrance was distressing.
Lie #1. Supporters at Trump rallies didn't never said they would turn to violence, or rally after rally.
If he was there he should be arrested, tried, and sentenced to hard time in Leavenworth for domestic terrorism.
Those are the new rules. Get used to it.
The new rules? As opposed to the previous rule where the charges against the 2017 inauguration rioters were dropped?
Omgawsh- rhhardin!!
Finally a straight answer!
Amen, brother- a biased propagandist news sourceis filming ppl who seem to be unaware/without a care of how they are appearing- it sounds like a set up!! Why doesn’t the NewYorker comment on other video- say- Sullivan’s. Maybe they have, though?
Yeah- “I think Cruz would want us to do this” out loud- is such bs incriminating bs. That’s how u frame a narrative, hey?
Is the argument really being floated that Mogelson's presence was lawful and permissible under "freedom of the press" under the First Amendment?
But that the presence of others who were petitioning the government for a redress of grievances under the First Amendment was unlawful?
When have reporters ever been able to just barge onto the Senate floor? Can they do so later this week?
Does the water buffalo guy have his own personal photographer that was allowed in with him? Certainly doesn't look like a violent insurrection. Looks like a stupid set up.
Only in Madison would anyone believe that is the MAGA movement.
Excellent technology. A video recorder that inserts subtitles. Awesome!!
And, “Fuck the blue!” We have heard that at all the Trump rallies, NOT!
Where are the guns? Where are the fire bombs, the bricks, the 2x4s? Where is the wanton destruction? Who are those assholes who sound like voices of reason? I didn’t hear any of that in the Portland videos. Who are those pussies who are walking along chatting with the cops?/s
This is so disappointing. My friend whose son is a US Marshal assigned to the federal buildings in Portland said those riots were fearsome to the enforcement personnel. Where did our side go wrong? /s
It did get better when Mogelson went around to the agent provocateur side.
Leftmediaswine bullshit!
Hmmm. I watched the whole video. Minor property damage - tent? It looks like the people who managed to make it in didn't really know what to do, apart from have a prayer. Those pushing to try and get in, would probably do the same (although it looked like there's a couple of instigators).
Media equipment? Looks like mostly boxes and accessories - regardless, setting fire to that crap is idiotic.
Not really a riot being shown, here, but a typical protest with argy-bargy, at the capitol. Representatives should be able to do their job, but people should have the ability to protest their grievances with remonstrance.
Sullivan's JaydenX video was better and he was right in the middle of the worst of it
And he posted it immediately unedited.
And no, I don't like this shit at all.
BoatSchool said...
Luke Mogelson is a war correspondent. So is Michael Yon. You can be sure The New Yorker won’t be sharing the latter’ s reports.
-----------===========
Has Professora blogged about Andy Ngo - "domestic war correspondent" + male eq of lara logan
Worst. Insurrection. Ever.
I don't see any videos,
D'oh, it was right there in the blogger post, hidden by my ad-blocker.
I thought that video actually humanized many of the rioters.
The Antifa/BLM riots were meant to intimidate and fatigue the populace over weeks and months of seemingly random, opportunistic violence.
Recognizing the incentives created by a leadership class who tolerated and rewarded that, these people flipped the model and took their grievances directly to their elected leaders in a single afternoon, after which congress was able to resume its business.
Less an insurrection than an in-your-face-surrection.
In many cases you could see they just wanted to be heard, even if it was just a handful of people listening.
"The new rules? As opposed to the previous rule where the charges against the 2017 inauguration rioters were dropped?"
Sarcasm, my dear Mary Beth.
BLM and Antifa destroyed entire cities while democrats and the media cheered them on. Those that were arrested have, to my knowledge, rarely been prosecuted.
How convenient.
This should have been a wake up call for honest government.
Apparently it only woke the Republican cowards and Democrat tyrants. They “feared for their lives.” Good lord.
Suspicions confirmed.
"Has Professora blogged about Andy Ngo - "domestic war correspondent" + male eq of lara logan"
Andy has done a lot of good work in the trenches, but is hated by the left because he's a right-leaning, gay, Asian male.
Worst. Insurrection. Ever.
Indeed.
All it did is consolidate more power for the left.
Twelve Minutes that Shook the World. These things used to take ten days, what happened to all the lost minutes?
"I just wanted you to know that this is like The Sacredest place."
Lol. What a riot. Horns guy was definitely planning assassinations.
I feel like I'm watching an episode of Tiger King.
Who was that guy in black at the end yelling, "hang 'em" and so forth? He looked a lot different than the Trump supporters, didn't he? Wonder why.
Of course it's just one guy with a camera so we see only a few trees at ground level and certainly not the forest itself. There is a lot of shouting and expletives, no one getting hurt, no graffiti or trashing of public property--just camera equipment presumably owned by media companies.
There are extended scenes of speed reading and photographing of files. Was that what they were after? It reminds me of the Da Vinci Code movie, when with Western Civilization hanging in the balance, Tom Hanks' character shouts "I have to get to a library, fast!"
Speaking of movies, I'm sure the boys and a few girls were disappointed when they riffled through the binders and found no secret stuff but only scripts for the actors' performances later that day.
This is the same newyorker who made excuses for riots now, like the wisconsin
While fake news is usually a contrivance by omission and context; mission not quite accomplished with the video.
Journal covered for the walker recall the riots etc
Saw this yesterday. Complicated feelings, yeah, you bet! The most overwhelming thing is a sense of depression that we've come to this juncture as a country, followed by a sense of disgust and rage at the media for how they're reporting it, topped off by a head-shaking bewilderment at how some of our political "elite" have no clue about their role in the events that presaged this.
The video doesn't look like a reason for 26K troops in DC, who by they way, are now being "vetted" by the FBI to make sure there are no MAGA soldiers too close to the emperor.
For this they put up armed guards at the Wis State Capitol, but all summer Madison did nothing to protect it's own businesses.
So stupid.
Ann Althouse said...
One guy was saying it's a "war of information" and what they needed was information.
Rather, he seemed to be saying what the protesters/rioters did while they are in the Capitol would be used by the media/establishment to paint the worst picture possible in the "I/O war." So that they should be respectful and behave themselves.
He was right, but he should have known that the media/establishment wouldn't play by those same rules of propriety and honesty.
“America first!” The phrase was popularized in 1940 by Nazi sympathizers.
Fernand said... "LOL. Those bullshitters never stop bullshitting."
I say.... Problem is, the other hiveminders buy it.
Have watched the right video now (I think). Seems like there are a bunch of different behaviors on display. The people videotaped inside the capitol building seem a lot more peaceful than the people forcing their way inside, e.g. contrast the protester inside trying to get people to stop disrespecting the Capitol with the protester on the steps with ski googles and a mask shrieking that they should break all the windows. My tolerance for violent protest and protests that turn violent is basically zero, so I thought all of it was horrible and my thoughts naturally turned to Peterloo. But the activity just outside the Capitol building -- on the steps and pouring through the windows -- was notably worse. It may just be an accident of which groups the camera captured though.
"The right one is up now, and I wouldn't characterize it as "commentary."
The moment the camera is pointed is commentary.
The moment a piece is edited is commentary.
To film and edit is to exclude as well as include.
Once people are aware that a camera is rolling their behavior changes: they know they have an audience, and what follows is their attempt at commentary - of controlling what is captured.
There is a dialogue happening: it is why it gets our attention.
I am Laslo.
This handful of fools cursed and rummaged through some papers and now we have martial law in al fifty states and we're going to camps.
I don't approve of them doing that in any case.
I also once spent six hours being tossed to and fro as I immersed myself clad in a black hoodie in an anti-Trump protest outside the Fox Theater in Atlanta, as anti-Trump protesters screamed obscenities, threw themselves at police and innocent event attendees, started fistfights with people who tried to pass them in the street, and followed terrified Trump supports, some with children, to their cars afterwards, screaming obscenities. Not one Trump supporter reacted except to shield their children. Not one reporter covered this violence.
The Atlanta-Journal Constitution described that merely as a "protest." Meanwhile, several leftists got into the event itself and interrupted it repeatedly, throwing things at the stage, attacking the frail and beautiful Herman Cain (RIP) and violently wrestling with police who dragged them out but were not allowed to arrest them.
And that was a single event. And not one of the people who lobbed objects at police or punched them were arrested. I was informed by someone I know that they were forbidden to prevent any of the intense leftist violence. I have hours of video.
But why bother? I give up. I really, really give up. There reaches a point. This is mine.
that guy flopping thru a notebook and taking random photos... he didn't even do it right. You start at page one, dude.
ugh.
The Capitol was breached by Trump supporters who had been declaring, at rally after rally, that they would go to violent lengths to keep the President in power.
Do they identify any individual person who breached the Capitol, who also declared, at one or more rallies, that they would go to violent lengths to keep the President in power?
Or is this one of those thing claimed without evidence?
Bravo, Mogelson! That's some pretty impressive actual journalism. He took real risks.
It made the people who made it to the Senate look better than they've been portrayed and the people attempting to break into another area look worse. It also exposes as a lie the claim that countermeasures weren't used against the rioters.
Tina Trent - thanks for that post.
Leftwing rioting = OK.
All other rioting = insurrection and the crack down, on all of us, will be complete.
The next time, for me, it's eye for eye. I've spent a decade documenting this garbage. And now our side is being persecuted for a few dozen people doing far less?
I'm joining the Proud Boys. Their lady auxiliary, I suppose. I'll knit the Hawaiian shirts, or whatever it is that they do. But only if they'll shave their hipster sideburns.
Tina - give your footage to Project Veritas.
"Fuck the blue!" sounds like an Antifa chant. Who started the chant? An excited crowd will chant anything.
Re: Tom Grey:
This was a "mostly peaceful".
On a scale 1-10 for protester violence only about 3. (March for Life - 1)
It was a cop who shot and killed an unarmed eager-to-trespass first thru the broken window pro-Trump protester, Ashli Babbitt.
I mean, she wasn't the only one to die. Didn't protesters literally crush one of the policemen to death? And there were a couple other protester
deaths as well, not just Babbitt. That really doesn't look like a "3" to me. It's not the 1992 LA Riots, sure, but it's at least a 6 or a 7 given the deaths and the property damage. Could have been a lot worse, but it was quite bad.
I appreciate the irony of Althouse asking her readers to "watch this video" since she has explained how, "Calls for civility are always bullshit, because the real motivation is political advantage".
Unfortunately, the Capitol riot gave them what they want. But they aren't doing anything in response that they weren't going to do anyway sooner or later.
I'm not particularly interested in watching this video. I don't see what good can come of it. And I don't think I could add anything at this time beyond just saying that riots being normalized is very dangerous. I just hope that at minimum the media now understands how excusing or elevating mass bad behavior as they did throughout the summer of 2020 may not be advisable. Civilization may not be as sturdy as you imagine.
Sorry Teach, tried to stay with it but by 5 minutes in the pit in my stomach got too big.
These guys are pretty much on my "team," by which I mean if we were chatting over beers at a bar, we'd probably agree on a lot.
But I'm also averse to disorder (and unpredictable crowds!), and this grossed me out. Not how I want my team behaving.
Still, an insurrection? Gimme a break. These people (the media, the uniparty) should pray they never live to see one.
You think the black bloc wont be allowed to rampage again, like the colectivos is venezuela because 'its an idea after all' then you're naive.
No one died by lethalforce except ashley babbitt.
Bidencrackpipe: I sincerely labored for Conservatism Inc. for years. Someone famous I won't name here still owes me $5K for the very last thing I'll do for any of them. Those f****** care only about controlling us so they can profit. I was thrown out of the Left, then I was thrown out of the Right because I criticized the Kochs.
And the poor JBS and Eagles can only do so much until they learn to use the interweb. I'm going to go do high work in an Amazon warehouse for my sanity. Hanging from the air in a harness picking tiny things from some boxes to put into other boxes sounds quite healing right now.
I really, really like logistics. It's literally the opposite of politics.
don't worry, be happy! Good News, is Just Around the Corner!
Left-wing gatekeepers now permitting positive news again
In just a few more hours;
the Nicest, Gentlest, Cleanest, Most Energetic, Least Corrupt President: OF ALL TIME!
Will be in Power, and ALL THE BAD WILL GO AWAY!!!!
Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother."
Nonapod said...
I just hope that at minimum the media now understands how excusing or elevating mass bad behavior as they did throughout the summer of 2020 may not be advisable.
Go watch CNN for an hour, then revisit that comment.
“America first!” The phrase was popularized in 1940 by Nazi sympathizers.
The 1940 socialist presidential candidate Norman Thomas helped establish the American First Committee, he was as pacifist. The idea was to avoid involvement in foreign wars, especially in Europe, a popular sentiment after WWI.
I really, really like logistics. It's literally the opposite of politics.
Exactly. Logistics is all about solving problems with intelligence. Politics seems to be about finding problems or creating new problems using ignorance and fear.
Your chocolate ration will be reduced you will be grateful.
I feel bad for the thousands of Trumpsters who just milled around out on the street and didn't go into the Capitol.
MAGA has become a great socializing and bonding force for a lot of people who have been otherwise isolated, cut off from family and friends because of Trumplove.
Though it would help to do less stupid social media posting on both sides IMO.
Go watch CNN for an hour
I'd rather shave my head with a cheese grater.
The mainstream democrat party press has ZERO interested in the riots they instigated with their reporting. (George Floyd etc..)
The MSM has ignored massive dangerous rioting that benefited their political interests
Hundreds of people signed legal affidavits as witnesses to 2020 election fraud.
Where is the media interest or curiosity or expose' about any of it.
Are these witnesses all lying?
We all knew the pandemic would become a big *nevermind* as soon as the left grabbed power.
Would a real insurrection make the Uniparty happy? Would those who stole our election then feel vindicated and imbued with noble purpose?
The motto of the Little Douche Coup is "Yell hysterically and carry a small stick"
Say, is this the same Luke Mogelson, “war correspondent”, who wrote the whitewash of Antifa, “In the Streets with Antifa,” in October, 2020, aggrandizing the Brownshirt assholes shortly before they renewed their attack on government buildings in Portland?
Oh well. It’s just an “idea.” Ask the owners of Powell’s, one of america’s last independent bookstores in Portland, before the current Antifa siege shuts them down.
My biggest issue is if you're going to edit a video... don't loop certain parts.
Wondering if someone can help me out here.
FB friend posted something by Jon Pavlovitz: "We could see their every emotion as they desecrated monuments, urinated on carpets, and sat behind lawmaker’s offices as if winning something they had fought so very hard for; a treasure they had valiantly won after a long and brutal struggle."
Setting aside the faux outrage at the alleged desecration of monuments and urination (not poop on cop cars?), I have not seen one news item on any of this. Anyone else?
The fact that anyone can watch this video, along with dozens of others showing your pals beating an unconscious police officer with flags, and NOT understand that but for shooting a woman in the throat, these jackasses were 50 feet away from actually killing members of Congress, which was their stated goal. And those of you saying you don't need to watch or don't want to watch, do it anyway.
This was in fact an insurrection and you can hear people throughout the various videos saying that this is what Trump wants us to do; do this for Trump; or anyone of a number of violent phrases references carrying out Trump's plan. This is the culmination of 5 years of outrageous lies and and violent rhetoric, combined with the absolutely cowardly refusal of any adult in the room (McConnell and Graham and Cruz come to mind) to stop him.
It actually reflects a lot of what I see on this site from you all, though I usually just lurk. Your ridiculous theories and pseudo-intellectual analyses feed into the lies. And remember this: you have aligned yourselves with people who feel perfectly happy to publicly wear grossly racist statements and "6,000,000 Was Not Enough." Own it. For once.
By some coincidence, when I turned on my computer sound, my music app started playing Leslie Pinchick's blues/ironic version of "Happy Days are Here Again" over the video soundtrack. Perfect.
Ann said: "One guy was saying it's a "war of information" and what they needed was information." THANKS for pointing out "The Prisoner" reference!
For more legislative mayhem, here are legislators in Tawain's parliment throwing pig intestines a month ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYoSOA8ZjN4 - Animals with large lizard brains - where ever you go.
My question is this: if the situation were reversed - an incoming Republican admin and an outgoing Democrat admin a fringe can't let go of - would everyone be wringing their hands or would the reaction be "go freedom fighters?"
People have been known to perish in crowds celebrating a sports victory! Hundreds of people die during the Hajj pilgrimage. I hate chaos and especially crowds. I have little sympathy for people that join them.
No good troll can be hired.
I didn't see much in the way of violence --certainly in the way of premeditated and organized violence with weapons, even improvised ones. I saw one pretty orderly mob almost wandering into the Senate chamber and pawing through papers in a completely clueless way: feverishly photographing random pages as if they might reveal Big Secret Plots, while others --not part of any organized unit, just strangers thrown together for a moment-- explained "this is an information war" and vandalism will cost them the PR battle. I also saw them PRAYING in the Senate chamber. Then there was another mob at another entrance which got more aggressive, breaking windows and being hit with tear gas or pepper spray and shouting "Is that all you've got?" but being repulsed and coming away from the building, not going in. I saw police being shoved but not overwhelmed; I saw groups of police high on scaffolding (great tactical advantage IMHO) with an almost-placid demeanor; I heard/saw police talking calmly with the "rioters" as they stayed in their queues and walked down the corridors.
You can call this a riot but it's a pretty tame effort IMHO. No fires, no shooting (except by cops), no smashing (except a few windows), no beatings. The people were amateurs with a few professionals (agents provocateurs) thrown in.
stlcdr said... [hush][hide comment]
So, when are we going to see a riot? I'm at 6 minutes in, and am still waiting...
Me too. Never got to it,I guess. Michael Yon has lots of non-leftist video of the riot. I am not saying that any Trump fan who got caught up in this operation was smart. The cadre who led the way are miles away by now.
And those of you saying you don't need to watch or don't want to watch, do it anyway.
Did Ann sign up for "leftist troll a day?" A new one every day,. Or maybe the same one with a new sock puppet each day.
I guess this means that the State needs to start rounding up all Trump supporters with the potential to be dangerous.
If you contributed to Trump and have a firearm license, look out. Big Bro is coming after your ass.
Looks like two completely different groups.
The first group just overwhelms the few officers by their sheer numbers then seems surprised to have gained access.They act like kids having a lark that went further than expected.From buffalo head to the guys expecting to find secret revealing documents - they don't all appear to be 100% together mentally.
The second group yelling "fuck the blue" is displaying behavior I have never seen or heard of associated with Trump supporters.Where I live the majority of police are pro-Trump and many attend his rallies.There was one officer filmed being crushed(not on this video), they have photos of the attacker.I am very curious to see what the attackers background is.Also the mace sprayer -wtf. Maybe they turn out to be Trump supporters, but I will be surprised.
Can someone explain to me how the Capitol Police, which numbers around 2,000 strong, with a budget crowding $500 million per year, was overwhelmed by a couple of hundred rag-tag "rioters"....?
Smells a bit fishy to me.
Obviously edited for dramatic effect, it's a movie, not a documentary. I was once physically attacked for trying to stop a mob from breaking street lights, that was scary. This doesn't feel like that.
@Balfegor, three civilians (protestors) died of medical emergencies. Without someone honestly reporting what their medical emergencies were, there is no way to ascertain that the medical events were in any way connected with the presence of those people at the protest. There have been numerous different descriptions of the incident that ultimately killed the officer. You write that he was crushed to death. Other accounts say he was struck on the head by a fire extinguisher thrown from behind him (why wasn’t he wearing a helmet?). The earliest accounts claim the officer received minor injuries, he was treated and released, and his death was unrelated to his injuries. But that last account would not serve “the narrative,” so it has been suppressed.
Yes, I agree that the suppression of the third account does not make it true. But neither does it make it wrong.
lawyapalooza,
"And remember this: you have aligned yourselves with people who feel perfectly happy to publicly wear grossly racist statements and "6,000,000 Was Not Enough." Own it. For once."
Who the hell do you think you are talking to here? (That's not a rhetorical figure, a how dare you; I'm genuinely curious who you think you are addressing that would, under truth serum, have to say, Yes, yes I have.)
I think you're playing the game nicely summed up by Judge Danny Boggs:
"People on MY SIDE are responsible only for what they said personally, in full-quotation context.
BUT
People on YOUR SIDE are responsible for the inferred implications of anything said by anyone who ever held any idea vaguely similar to what your people think."
Unknown said...
Can someone explain to me how the Capitol Police, which numbers around 2,000 strong, with a budget crowding $500 million per year, was overwhelmed by a couple of hundred rag-tag "rioters"....?
Or how come they were denied when the CP Chief and Sgt At Arms of the Senate requested a National Guard presence days before the riot happened?
Or how the FBI and NSA missed all this?
I heard one news announcer's voice tremble when describing someone putting their feet up on Nancy Pelosi's desk.
@Lawyerpalooza,
and NOT understand that but for shooting a woman in the throat, these jackasses were 50 feet away from actually killing members of Congress, which was their stated goal.
Apparently not on the killing members of Congress.
6,000,000 Was Not Enough
Not a lot of overt antisemitism here, and even Cedarford of long ago was never an admitted Holocaust Denier.
Then again, leading Democrats don't seem to have any problems with association with hard-core antisemites.
Mobs can be moved to action very easily. It can happen in the snap of a finger. And when you have a few strategically placed- let's call them shepherds- in the crowd (Agent Provocateurs), at the front, and in the middle of the crowd, it's like having cowboys and herding dogs around a herd of cattle. And just like the cattle, most of the people, who were already at high emotions, followed the person in front of them. When the APs used bullhorns to encourage (instigate) them to rush the building, they did. Then once in the Senate chambers, no one really had any purpose. Which tells you those people had no plan at all. Just a ton of emotions. One guy muttered, "Where the fuck are they?". Another, looking through a notebook, "There's got to be something we can use against these scumbags." And of course, Mr. Viking BuffaloHead Man just howling up on top.
These are hardly the insurrectionists. But there were insurrectionists there. John Sullivan is an insurrectionist. And he's free on bail now. And there were dozens of others, including the woman in a pink hat who encouraged pulverizing windows to get in. And those (in other videos) talking about the layout of the building from a perspective of someone who had studied the schematics of the property. I am sure from my gut that these people are all leftists, working to do what they succeeding in doing. Using an ignorant mob to create an illusion of a mass far right insurrection. Maybe even a possible takeover by White Supremacists. !! Holy Pelosi, Batman!
Interestingly, one of the guys in a beard and a MAGA hat shown in the 'other' entrance Luke went to later in the video, looks to be the same guy shown in the early part of the video inside of the building. Maybe.
Anyway- the bottom line is that this was not an insurrection. It was a planned mess, however. Planned by a handful of the 250,000 people there. I suspect, planned by leftists, and possibly with the help of our DOJ, or FBI. Too few police were there and I just cannot square that circle. Not when every thinking citizen over the age of 7 had to know there was a potential for violence, given the raw emotions of the past months. Also there were too many videos of other police opening up gates to the mob. Something just stinks about this entire operation. And yes, I look at this as someone's operation. The questions is who?
These were similar to the riots in Portland, Seattle, Washington DC, Chicago, Baltimore, LA, Kenosha, Milwaukee and other cities, but with much less damage, fewer murdered people, and not one private business destroyed. But somehow our media found those riots justified. Wonder how the families of the murdered, or those who lost their businesses feel about that.
What our leaders ought to be thinking about is why so many of their citizens hate them right now. This country operates by the approval and confidence of the people. Without that approval and confidence, there is no government. But the continued breathlessness and moves to eliminate anyone showing any affinity toward Trump is downright frightening in it's speed, breadth, and threat. As if this was Part 2 of a plan.
The answer is not to put away everyone who was at the Trump rally. The answer is to figure out why 74+ million, or maybe 170 million people do not trust their government. That's a lot of people to put away, tamp down, shut up, and otherwise dehumanize. Granted, the Chinese have done it multiple times, but we're not them. Though...our leaders are on their payroll. So that's something to be proud of.
All over but the shoutin'.
My reaction to the first minute or two was, "Jesus, what's the matter with these people?," but for the most part, this was a video of some pretty harmless people doing something dumb. While that handful of people may or may not be guilty of insurrection, most or all of them were acting in the spur of the moment, which was clearly showed by how lost they were about what to do in the Senate chambers.
Shocking stuff, really. Homerian in scale- you literally have to go back to the sacking of Troy to find a more disturbing account of a fall of a great city.
Watching Animal Skin Guy rule in the chamber gave me chills- I now understand what the peasants felt like when the Mongol hordes led by Temujin swept over the plains of Asia.
Yes, Nonapod, logistics makes sense.
I always feel like I'm screwing strangers when I lobby. Gross, sad strangers lacking insight. If I wanted to go straight into prostitution, I'd feel less dishonest, and I'd make at least as much money as laying carpet, which I should have kept doing. Plus, I've never met a carpet crew pimp, though union reps come close.
Both activities hard on the knees after a certain age, though.
"How'd you all get down there". Take the stairs. Lol
"Or how come they were denied when the CP Chief and Sgt At Arms of the Senate requested a National Guard presence days before the riot happened?"
-- The most believable report is that Mayor Bowser would allow the National Guard to have any weapons (lethal or non-lethal) or body armor, so they got relegated to traffic duty.
Nope I don't watch the DNC propaganda any more from any outlet. When they start going back and reporting on the two-dozen dead from the BLM Riots, maybe I will be interested in what they have to say. But at this point what difference does it make? They don't care that Trump called for peaceful protest so I don't care who else called for whatever. The crowd came to peacefully protest, just like all the BLM crowds. If some people did something that's on them. It does not make a "movement" and it does not signify anything about Trump that these people did bad things. I believe in personal responsibility. I'll believe in collective guilt when the democrats start pleading guilty for slavery.
For balance I suggest reading Michael Yon's account of the day which many here have already linked to over and over.
Ann, you have experience with an event with which this can be compared. How does the behavior here, in terms of how they got in, what they did inside, and how they left (if you have information on that) compare with the State Capitol occupation in Madison?
Do you realize that was the first time any law enforcement officer used deadly force against a "rioter" in the last five years? And the rioter in question was an unarmed woman guilty - at most - of breaking and entering? You're living in a lawless country. Get used to it. Later they'll be coming and taking your stuff away, and maybe a few of your friends.
The fear of the security people and the brave, retreating Congresscritters is palpable, visceral even. You could see that, in that moment, they fully understood how it felt to be a Tutsi in Rwanda in 1994. I will have great trouble sleeping in the next few nights after having watched this disturbing video.
I am a rightwing nutjob and two time Trump voter. But personal conviction did not lead these people to the Capitol. It was simply the allure of chaos and scoring an interesting social media post. It's easy to imagine chaos being a guiding force in most of these people's lives.
Mobs have their own unpredictable inertia, no matter what the character of the individual actors. This mob was only "harmless" because they did not encounter any congressmen. If they had, the odds are that mob mentality would have led to violence against an elected official.
The woman had to be shot. It was unquestionably the correct action.
Temujin @ 1:11: What you said. We are in very troubled waters here. BTW, I thought "John Sullivan" had been released without bail. I wonder if we'll ever see him in court, or at all. Hasn't he used aliases in the past?
Oh Shit! Taking a picture of AOC's binder is going to bring them down!
Such morons. At least they weren't setting fires like the Left's morons.
"Antifa made me do it" actually makes you people even more pathetic.
Yancey Ward @ 1:15, 1:19, 1:26: Did you forget the sarc font there?
lawyapalooza said...
The fact that anyone can watch this video, along with dozens of others showing your pals beating an unconscious police officer with flags, and NOT understand that but for shooting a woman in the throat, these jackasses were 50 feet away from actually killing members of Congress, which was their stated goal. And those of you saying you don't need to watch or don't want to watch, do it anyway.
**************
WHOSE stated goal?
WHICH of the people who stated that goal invaded the Capitol? BE SPECIFIC.
IF killing congresscritters was "their" stated goal, why did none bring lethal weapons? Why did the people all dawdle in the chambers instead of immediately hunting down their quarry?
What's with the "but for" the killing of the woman...? She was in an entirely different part of the Capitol. Do you mean to say that the violent perps folded at the distant sound of a shot fired?
Whole lotta conclusion-jumping going on here...
It is only a rumor that Howard wet his panties on the 6th. Only a rumor.
I talked to a friend a few days ago who attended the DC rally. Massive, peaceful protest is what he saw and had plenty of pictures of.
He heard about a small group, and he heard it was led by enemy infiltrators, who rioted in the building.
NOT the picture painted by the MSM: Main Swamp Minions
"Yancey Ward @ 1:15, 1:19, 1:26: Did you forget the sarc font there?"
Sarcasm? What is that?
I like how we've shifted from: "There were no Antifa or left wing people there," to "Ok, there might have been some, but they were just watching," to "Antifa didn't plan the riot, and only Trumpists did anything bad," to "Ok, Antifa may have been trying to lead chants, threatening police, and trying to get people to burn the place down, but ultimately, you have to say only the actual rioters are responsible."
Which is so weird considering the official ruling on the left is no one was responsible for the damage done in the 2017 Inauguration Insurrection.
I'd rather people just be honest: There were a lot of angry people in that mob, and people are responsible for their individual action, but it is now clear beyond a doubt that Antifa agents were present trying to make the riot into something worse, and those idiots didn't realize that the same sort of riot may have happened without them. But, hey. Antifa isn't known for being particularly smart. One of their precursor groups, like the Weathermen, did accidentally blow themselves up. But don't worry, Bill Ayers assures he'd have planted more bombs if he could have.
@Patrick,
The woman had to be shot. It was unquestionably the correct action.
No, watch the videos. The room Ashli Babbitt was in was fast filling up with cops when she was shot. Matter of fact, it's a cop in SWAT gear who tells the shooter to stand down right after she was shot. The room was by no means a cop vs rioter melee when the shot was fired.
The only way to save America is to:
• Reform public education, four years of history & civics required.
• Refocus political efforts on state & local issues. National politics should be an afterthought.
Also, perhaps the resident Constitutional scholar can enlighten me on when the Bill of Rights ceased to pertain only to federal authority, and whether it can be reversed.
"You could see that, in that moment, they fully understood how it felt to be a Tutsi in Rwanda in 1994."
Tutsis in Rwanda in 1994 is another thing that was not at all the way the American Media painted it. Check out a book called "In Praise Of Blood".
I find it unlikely the shot was justified considering:
A. The room wasn't in any real danger.
B. There were armed officers on the other side of the door as well.
C. The person firing was immediately told to stop after doing so.
D. If it was justified, there'd be a report on how it was justified out immediately.
Justified shootings are usually VERY clear compared to unjustified or unknown justifications. Add on to the fact *no other lethal rounds have been used against protesters in at least a year* and that adds to the 'not justified' side. I'm willing to wait on a report backing me up on my observations, but I imagine that she's never getting justice.
Those of you downplaying this event should read the account of one of the Senators. He wrote that he and his staff had to be hidden from the rioters murderous wrath by Ted Cruz in a hidden space behind a false wall and above a false ceiling in Cruz's office. The unnamed Senator and his staff survived for hours in this modern day Achterhuis. It is now number 1 on Amazon- "The Diary of Mitt Romney."
Watching Animal Skin Guy rule in the chamber gave me chills- I now understand what the peasants felt like when the Mongol hordes led by Temujin swept over the plains of Asia.
Yeah - me too. I wept tears of anguish and fear over our animal skin guy led-future.
If you believe the election was stolen then the people in the video should be seen as patriots who were willing to get up off their asses and try do something about it instead sitting at a keyboard and fretting about "disorder."
If you believe the election was stolen and there is no hope of righting the wrong from the Courts or the Legislature or the Executive then you should see that the only choices remaining are violence and surrender.
Many Americans, with good reason, believe the election was stolen.
As an example: We've had protesters surround and physically assault congress people on the streets of DC, and police DID nothing. They had to walk through the crowd alone. We had protesters *rush Senators trying to get on an elevator and no one used any force (lethal or otherwise) to stop unknown insurrectionists who had broke into the Capitol and were rushing Senators* back during the anti-Kavanaugh riots.
Force, especially lethal force, is not used against Capitol insurrectionists as a general rule. Until one guy fired on an unarmed woman who, while trespassing, was no threat to anyone. Lethal force wasn't allowed to be used on people attempting to breach the White House when those insurrectionists called for dragging Trump from his bunker.
So... yeah. I'm going to find it very interesting why lethal force was suddenly allowed.
PO Hodges was the officer being crushed. He is fine and photos of the crusher are all over media.PO Sicknick is the officer who died,initial reports were that he died of a heart attack.That was changed to injuries from fire extinguisher hit.No info on his assailant has been reported which lead me to believe the heart attack story is more likely.
It doesn't need to have been a big plot.The cops at one entrance realize they are outnumbered. They don't want to fight a bunch of people who mostly support the police and aren't doing anything violent, so they step aside. The cops assigned to a different door react differently and perhaps are faced with a more aggressive group.
Blogger Howard said...
"Antifa made me do it" actually makes you people even more pathetic.
You prefer "George Floyd made me do it." Howard has his superiority complex up to 12 today.
"They don't want to fight a bunch of people who mostly support the police and aren't doing anything violent, so they step aside. The cops assigned to a different door react differently and perhaps are faced with a more aggressive group."
-- Which is a huge failure of leadership. But, that's been true since the start of these riots in 2017 when city leadership, especially in DC, essentially surrendered the city to rioters to give them space to destroy. A proper, competent Capitol Police force and leadership from the people in Congress responsible for security and the city of DC could have prevented this. But, they just didn't care or were too incompetent.
"Patrick" seems to be another Moby, maybe Chuck's new monicker.
@YoungHegelian, I have watched the video. Supposing she got through, is it not reasonable to assume that a stream of others would have followed? How would SWAT have stopped the stream without use of force? And then of course they were on the same side of the barrier as the mob so they would likely have been overrun. Tje firing officer was effective because he was defending a bottleneck. There was SWAT outside the Capitol but failed to stop the mob because A)force was not used and B)their position was indefensible.
A mob is like a tsunami: once the wave starts there is no stopping it.
I have heard that Steven Spielberg is preparing two docudramas of the event and the aftermath- Empire of the Orange Sun and Cruz's List. Liam Neeson is already on board to play Cruz, but Christian Bale is balking at playing the role of Nancy Pelosi in the D.C. internment camp.
"Supposing she got through, is it not reasonable to assume that a stream of others would have followed? How would SWAT have stopped the stream without use of force?"
-- Through the deployment of non-lethal force, or by, as was done during the anti-Kavanaugh riots, ceding the territory to them, and maybe even letting some of them make it to Congress people. If "we shoot trespassers" had been an established rule that the rioters were aware of at the start, then the shooting was justified. The previously established rules when breaking into the Capitol was that you were allowed; no one used force against the insurrectionists/rioters entering, and you were even allowed to walk up to Senators or Congresspeople or into the viewing galleries and not be removed, with minimal force, unless you were disruptive (but you weren't considered disruptive if you only harassed certain Congresspeople.)
Given the previous rules and treatment o fpeople breaking into the Capitol, there was no justification for the use of force we saw.
Opening fire in a crowded building, where you know you have friendlies on the other side of the door, while trying to calm people down is the OPPOSITE of a good shoot. He is lucky that on hearing gunfire, the situation didn't devolve immediately. It was grossly irresponsible to shoot at someone who was not a clear, immediate threat, even without taking into account the rules that have been applied in defending the Capitol over the last several years.
Not Althouse's fault, but God damn the son of a bitch who invented autoplay!
I watched with audio off but read the captions. There were isolated shots of unacceptable physical confrontation and property damage, but on the whole, this was not violent at all.
The pearl clutching and hysterics over this is political theater. There was infinite opportunity for theft and property destruction yet 99.9% were walking around and looking at the building like tourists. They seemed overwhelmingly deferential to their surroundings.
Much ado about very little.
Because of the throngs of demonstrators in DC overwhelming the cell towers, reporters claimed that they had no cellphone signal or internet access. So the demonstrators had no access to the President's speech or subsequent tweets or comments. It's impossible that he directly or indirectly caused the crowd to enter the capitol building.
I will agree. Autoplay is a scourge.
Watching those guys in the Senate, I thought, "The dog caught the car. Now what?"
This was the weirdest riot in American history. When I read about it, I thought it would be like the Stamp Act protests, when the house of Lt. Gov. Thomas Hutchinson was sacked:
"Not contented with tearing off all the wainscot and hangings and splitting the doors to pieces they beat down the Partition walls. Though that alone cost them two hours, they cut down the cupola and lantern and began to take the slate and boards from the roof."
This wasn't like that, was it?
The scenes at the Capitol entrance are different--that was a riot.
I am amazed at the polls showing that Trump's approval has not moved much following these events. I agree that he did not directly incite the crowd by anything he said on the day, but the act of holding a "Stop the Steal" rally and then sending the crowd off "peacefully and patriotically" to the Capitol was at best foolish and lacking in foresight, prudence, and, frankly, patriotism and concern for our country.
But now the wheel is turning. The leaders of the Democrats are also foolish and shortsighted, and perhaps unpatriotic. Why go forward with this pointless second impeachment? Do they really know what happened at the Capitol and how it came to be? They don't. We are weeks away from putting the pieces together. The words the Democrats and the press (but I repeat myself) cite as incitement were standard political rhetoric--nothing special. Big Tech (guided by the energies of the megalomaniac midgets that infest their workforce) has weighed in to bury the sins of Facebook and Twitter (if they are sins) by vaporizing Parler. They are widening the cracks in the foundations of our republic. They are now the ones playing with fire.
No, Trump's mistake was holding that rally on that day. That was poor judgment on his part. He is leaving office tomorrow. But we are now stuck with fecklessness and foolishness of Biden, the Democrats, the press, and Big Tech. This is going to get worse.
There is another angle of the shooting. Many people were yelling—“there is a gun!, He has a gun! “
In the video to me it is possible that it was a secret service agent. You can see a white cuff and suit. It’s possible he had people in the side office or Speaker’s lobby he was trying to protect. Supposedly she was an Air Force security person...
Anyways from the shooter’s angle there is no way in hell he could see that police entered the room behind her. He held out the gun for everyone to get a visual of it —as a warning— for as long as possible.
Patty Jenkins is also working on a docudrama on the life and death of Ashlii Babbitt- the working title is "Monster-1984". Charlize Theron has already accepted the lead as Babbitt.
"Make sure you watch the right video, the one where you see the break-in and lots of action inside the Senate chamber."
How does the violence and destruction compare to what the WI Democrats did during the Act 10 fight?
Asking since you were there for that fight
"There were isolated shots of unacceptable physical confrontation and property damage, but on the whole, this was not violent at all."
-- This reasoning is the unfortunate result of years to decades of "mostly peaceful" riots, mattering when you want to draw the starting line. Republicans and people on the right condemned the Capitol riot pretty quickly, consistent with their condemnation of political violence for years to decades.
The nuance of why this was acceptable, but the anti-Kavanaugh riots or the attack on the White House earlier this year, or the 2017 Inaugural Insurrectionist Riots, is why more and more on the right are saying, "screw it. One set of rules. January 6th was mostly peaceful."
If you don't like that, maybe you should consider accepting the rules that Republicans have been suggesting we use for years to decades: Political violence of any sort is unacceptable. Even the type that would be useful to your political ends.
To me, it’s simple. I’m both staunchly pro-free expression and staunchly anti-lawbreaking. The First Amendment doesn’t allow you to ransack the Capitol.
It gets a little tricky to assess those who entered the Capitol through open doors and were there just to protest. Anyone who broke a window or busted down doors or attacked cops ought to go to jail, and for a long time. But I’m sure there were people in the crowd who saw that the doors were open and that protesters were being allowed in and thought, “hey I guess we can go inside and protest.” After years of watching leftists do the “occupy” style of protest — at the Wisconsin state Capitol, at Zuccotti Park, during the Kavanaugh hearings — they had reason to think it was okay.
In any event, it wasn’t an insurrection or an attempted coup or anything like that. It was a raucous, wild protest that exploded into lawlessness when some fringe crazies (militias, agitators, etc) popped things off. Watching the video of what happened inside, it’s way more pathetic than scary. It didn’t make me scared at all for “American democracy.” It made me (1) upset at the Capitol police and DC police for being so negligent, (2) angry at the people who resorted to violence, and (3) sad that so many probably harmless people got carried away and will be made to pay a hefty price, however deserved.
As an example: We've had protesters surround and physically assault congress people on the streets of DC, and police DID nothing. They had to walk through the crowd alone. We had protesters *rush Senators trying to get on an elevator and no one used any force (lethal or otherwise) to stop unknown insurrectionists who had broke into the Capitol and were rushing Senators* back during the anti-Kavanaugh riots.
Force, especially lethal force, is not used against Capitol insurrectionists as a general rule. Until one guy fired on an unarmed woman who, while trespassing, was no threat to anyone. Lethal force wasn't allowed to be used on people attempting to breach the White House when those insurrectionists called for dragging Trump from his bunker.
So... yeah. I'm going to find it very interesting why lethal force was suddenly allowed.
Normal people are no longer tolerating the Pravda-level bullshit the DNC-Media complex pumps out. IF you don't listen to them, watch their "news," read their press releases or allow others to poison your mind by repeating to you what DC says about anything then peaceful coexistence is all around you. People at the stores in San Bernardino are friendly and all types of diverse. We're so diverse we had terrorists planning in the tiny burg of Redlands right around the corner from the federal government's most secure map-creating facility, but the newly arrived bad guys didn't know that and so they bombed San Bernardino County buildings 5 miles away. Six years later Apple still hasn't unlocked their iPhone, but they won't let me download Parler.
But away from DC people are happy to treat one another as regular old Americans. We DO all get along. This is one of the last places I come to see what people are talking about. I'm glad Althouse has interest in things far outside DC.
(And no, despite his claiming to also be in San Berdoo possibly a native like I, I do not know Howard or the other guy. Gary?)
I’m tired of this fight.
The Democrats have their paramilitary forces, Antifa and BLM.
It was inevitable that the violence would eventually go both ways.
I fear it’s going to get a lot worse.
Althouse is misleading you guys very subtly- she deliberately put up two different wrong videos- here is the real video of what happened on January 6th. Don't be fooled!
I watched it -- as riots go, a not very impressive one (you could almost call it a mostly peaceful one, at least on that video). The guys (they seem to all be guys) outside engage in some not-very-convincing tough talk(trying hard to convince themselves, perhaps), as they do a 'storm the Bastille' routine. Very hard to know how seriously to take the hot-heads in that crowd; to judge by what they did, not all that seriously.
Once the protesters got into the Capitol, they just wandered around aimlessly, making a bit of a mess and mostly being adolescent pests while not destroying much of anything. Some shouting about 'save the country' and 'don't let them steal the election,' but it all seemed too rote to amount to anything. Later, one guy proposes that they join in prayer as they stand around in the House chamber rifling through some papers, and then he launches into his version of 'Christ died for our sins' (had a weird Battle Hymn, John Brown abolitionist feel to it); another one urges respect for what he calls 'this sacred space'; a third guy tells a Capitol police officer, 'we support you, you're just doing your job', and on it goes. No one seems to be bent on destruction -- just wandering the halls, talking to themselves and taking some selfies.
What to make of it? It reminded me of a less-destructive version of the occupation of the Wisconsin capitol during the anti-Walker riots some years back. They got themselves all worked up, with a little help from Trump, but mostly just yelling, pushing and shoving their way in and then just letting off some steam. With all the hype in the media, I was expecting something more shocking.
Untrue Yancey. I soiled myself on the 6th.
I see lawyapalooza (12:53) has been released from the foolish house. It seems a bit premature.
It is no accident that gun sales overall but especially to female and black customers hit all time highs in 2020!
Absolutely no class! But then what would you expect from a person who wouldn't move into the White House until her husband signed a pre-nup agreement.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/18/opinions/melania-trump-first-lady-break-with-tradition-brower/
Blogger Michael K said...
"Patrick" seems to be another Moby, maybe Chuck's new monicker.
.........
Nope bullshit. Sounds like someone with experience. If you are Secret Service and you are protecting Mike Pence— the damn Vice President— or hell Nancy Pelosi— it does not matter, do you allow that breach to happen?
Patrick is absolutely correct that a wave of people would have followed her.
How would the situation be for the Republican Party if they had managed to get to Mike Pence, or Nancy Pelosi— in that kind of mob mentality environment?
Peppermint Patty: "Where's the heavy weapons? Where's the people demanding to be arrested? Where's the Molotov cocktails?"
"If you are Secret Service and you are protecting Mike Pence— the damn Vice President— or hell Nancy Pelosi— it does not matter, do you allow that breach to happen?"
-- Breaches of the Capitol are fairly routine; we had a big one a few years ago. They even let several rioters/protestors/insurrectionists get to Congress people.
As for this: If they wanted to contain the breach, they would have done so long before they got to that door, and they surely wouldn't have decided to contain it by firing into a mob, where they had friendlies on the opposite side of the mob. Opening fire was the stupidest way of containing the problem and preventing further violence; the shooter is lucky that the mob didn't respond as mobs normally do when someone opens fire on them: With total panic.
I think the anti-trumpets should put together their best video of 1/6 footage.
And the pro-trumpers should put together their best video of the summer riots.
We play them both and decide whether to impeach Trump or Pelosi.
If Nancy's not confident enough in the outcome, she needs to tear up the impeachment like it's a State of the Union address.
Francisco D warns:
If you contributed to Trump and have a firearm license, look out. Big Bro is coming after your ass.
I'm hoping we can have sanctuary cities & counties. Isn't that what one does when one doesn't want to obey federal law? Works for the Left.
Mutaman--The Bidens have shown so little class. You can understand why personal relations with Mrs. Trump might be a bit frigid. Melania is just following the tradition established by the universally admired Abigail Adams.
I don't believe a single thing I see on CNN or any of its infestations. It is Demmie Party propaganda all the way.
I watched the video, and it seems like propaganda rather than a report. Scenes are chronologically out of order, several times. The opening scene had to happen somewhere in the middle of events and, indeed, we are shown parts of it again later. However, the opening scene they decided to provide captioning of comments that suggest the protesters are acting on behalf of Cruz and Hawley. The only evidence is their words, which are augmented in the video.
There are scenes late in the video showing police successfully blockading entrance to the Capitol. And we are then told what happens next is chronological afterwards, and shows protesters entering the Capitol. I suppose that should be re-enter, because previously the video showed people entering, then being blockaded, and now, yeah, entering again. The video is cut, so you have to take the editors words for it. And the edits seem set on showing only part of the story.
I'm sure this is playing well with the New Yorker readership, but it would be sad if this was evidence presented in court. It would take hours of reviewing each scene to figure out timing of events and what is repeated.
What I could get out of the video objectively is that many of those that entered the Capitol certainly planned to do so and expected violence. You got the guy barking instructions in the Senate chamber while wearing a modern military helmet, and many others wearing bike helmets and other gear to absorb blows.
Conversely, there were uniformed officers mixed in with the crowd, and nobody messed with them. And then there were officers in riot gear being assaulted. So I can't figure out what the Capitol police were doing. My guess is that they were more interested in evacuating the members of Congress first than repelling the crowd, and once the members were removed; then they repelled. But that's a guess that the video really goes no where near answering.
@Matt Sablan: You make some cogent points. I will definitely consider them. But also consider that the hallway was clesrly barricaded, and the officer was showing his weapon as if to fire. He was clearly afraid, as he was not standing in front of the mob. So if he is convicted, there goes the "Stand Your Ground" protections that many of us enjoy.
Also, I am not aware of any anti-Kavanaugh occupation besides the sit-in that ACO organized oitside of Pelosi's office. To my knolwedge, the hallway wasn't barricaded for that. Could someone link to footage of it?
@Patrick,
The Kavanaugh hearings were more raucous than commonly thought, judging by the number of arrests See this link.
Blogger Chennaul said...
Another blank profile spewing BS. Pelosi's office was occupied a couple of years ago by AOC and her band of lunatics. The Trump people nwere probably 90%nbof that mob but nit was a total of 100 or so. Of that number, 10 or 20 were the Antifa cadre that led the way. It was a successful propaganda operation. I just wonder if shooting Ashli Babbitt was planned or an accident? We may never know. They certainly are hiding that shooter.
Althouse dutifully peddles propaganda, and directs us all to watch. Maybe they'll shut her site down last.
Sorry but I don't care. No one in the media gave a damn about the antifa/blm violence throughout most of 2020; hell they and the dems in congress encouraged it. So fuck them and their hypocrisy. I'm tuning it out. I've had enough.
Wake me when the left push so hard that they get to see what a real insurrection looks like.
Anti-Kavanaugh protesters bang on the doors of the Supreme Court
"So if he is convicted, there goes the "Stand Your Ground" protections that many of us enjoy."
-- That is a complete misunderstanding of "Stand Your Ground." First, those rules are for citizens.
Second, the officer was not under immediate threat. Third, DC does not have a Stand Your Ground law; in fact, it is a Duty to Retreat state. So even if we applied the same rules to citizens as officers/security, the person failed in their duty to retreat.
Do you even know what Stand Your Ground means?
(Technically, there isn't a Duty to Retreat law in DC, you're just expected to make attempts to retreat if possible. Which, let's face it, loads of other Capitol security managed to retreat without shooting anyone, so it is clear the officer COULD have retreated.)
"The Kavanaugh hearings were more raucous than commonly thought"
Yep. Two ladies tried to kill Jeff Flake in an elevator, or so he claims.
You're right, Night Owl. I am done with being passive. I'm also done with being passive-aggressive.
Only one thing left.
Patrick said...
He was clearly afraid, as he was not standing in front of the mob. So if he is convicted, there goes the "Stand Your Ground" protections that many of us enjoy.
None of that has anything to do with Stand Your Ground laws. Stand Your Ground laws are state laws do nothing more than remove the old Duty To Retreat concept of Self Defense inherited from English Common Law.
I'm starting to think Mike K is right about this one...
Luke Mogelson rolls off the tongue even more easily than the name of Ernie Pyle- the bravery is comparable.
As for this: If they wanted to contain the breach, they would have done so long before they got to that door,
..............
Yep. I do think much more should have been done before it got to that point. The warning of a problem was when Rand Paul was mobbed trying to leave a White House event, as were many others. Rep. Vernon Jordan, etc. The fact that Nancy Pelosi or Chuck Schumer did not denounce that, or were never asked to by mainstream media is still horrifying. That abdication of leadership is a huge portion of the reason things have escalated.
But that Secret Service agent is not responsible for what transpired before, he is in that moment unfortunately and to me he stayed in a warning posture with his gun drawn out and plainly visible as long as possible.
In Ann’s video I see another Secret Service agent, at least from the ID on the back of his helmet, trying to hold his position between two different streams of the mob— I saw him in another longer video and he looks absolutely terrified, and the Capitol police try to maintain— or hang in there with him but get overwhelmed before he does. Ugh, they have a duty to protect and it does not matter who is breaching the Capitol, you are suppose to be able to take a bullet for Trump, Obama or Bush, because it is the country that comes first.
"The Bidens have shown so little class. "
I know this is asking a lot, but link please.
I repeat... I don’t care.
If the Democrats can field their paramilitary units, as they have for the past year, then Republicans should field paramilitary units of their own.
Not that I’m going to be involved in it. I’m too old.
In the future, Mogelson's work work will be compared to that of Tacitus and Cassius Dio, or, at the very least, to Chris Cuomo's gripping account of having survived The Plague.
@Matt Sablan
"Do you even know what Stand Your Ground means?" More excellent points. But tell me where I am wrong: The authority to use deadly force when one fears immediate harm to himself, and there is no option to flee.
Why wouldn't Stand Your Ground apply to officers? If anything they should have more leeway to use deadly force than Joe Citizen.
Now revisit the Madison, WI riots over Walker's cutting the union's umbilical cord!
My neighbor told me he was just burning some leaves, but I reported him to the FCC anyway, just to be safe- he could have been sending smoke signals to the Proud Boys.
Ok forget the stand your ground thought. Clearly it does not apply. Thank you to all who pointed out errors.
Sure, the actual damage at the Capitol was small, but how would you feel if some barbarians stole yourpodium? Right now that guy could be convening a shadow House of Representatives somewhere in Nebraska opposing the rightfully elected government. Think about it before mocking the reaction of the Democrats and the media.
I don't think the Kavanaugh protests is comparing apples to apples here.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/01/video-exclusive-film-crew-releases-never-seen-footage-2017-inauguration-riots/
Peaceful transition of power
"I don't think the Kavanaugh protests is comparing apples to apples here."
True. The people verbally assaulting Jeff Flake survived the encounter.
Dog finally caught the car.
"I don't believe a single thing I see on CNN or any of its infestations. It is Demmie Party propaganda all the way."
So you're saying the CNN story is false and Melanie is in fact meeting with Ms. Biden? Another Trump University graduate.
The Democrats have a complex shell game going on through non-profits, colleges, churches, etc., that allows them to field their paramilitary forces, BLM and Antifa, while hiding the reality of their origin, funding and direction.
The problem for Republicans is that they don’t have a way to conceal their funding and direction of such forces.
It’s all ad hoc and freelance for Republicans. It’s really institutionalized and organized on the Democratic side.
We’re in a weird situation now. The Democrat’s use of paramilitary forces is semi-officially condoned and accepted. The Republicans are forbidden from even allowing the freelancers within their ranks.
Mutaman,
You are lying dog-faced pony soldier.
Blogger Patrick said...
...
But tell me where I am wrong: The authority to use deadly force when one fears immediate harm to himself, and there is no option to flee.
So, you really don't know what Stand Your Ground means.
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