Luke Mogelson wrote "Among the Insurrectionists/The Capitol was breached by Trump supporters who had been declaring, at rally after rally, that they would go to violent lengths to keep the President in power. A chronicle of an attack foretold" (The New Yorker), which I linked to, here, on the 15th.
I had many complicated feelings watching that video, so I'm inviting you to begin the conversation. I am more averse to disorder and efforts to occupy territory than most people, but very much pro- free expression.
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295 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 295 of 295These urukhai are stupider than usual.
They would have mounted the riot three days before, like the tucson kerfluffle.
than most people, but very much pro- free expression."
Well, isn't that special? So you are all for it, as long as it's easy, free, and without risk or effort. Perhaps a strongly worded letter would have sufficed. Pick a principle, or take a nap till it's over.
Do you have any suggestions as to how the Right can defend itself against the censorship banning, lying, cheating and violence being leveled against them on all fronts? If you do, do you have the guts to say it out loud with your "free speech".
“This ugly fascism from the left and "center" is no different than the ones that preceded it in history. I'm proud that time will show that I didn't accept it, gloss it over, justify it, or ignore it, let alone help it along.
As I enter my senior years I think the coming resistance will likely be the defining event of my life. I wish it wasn't needed, but it will be an honor to face up to the sacrifice it may require. I literally have nothing better or more important to do with my remaining years, my accumulated stuff, and certainly my comfort. I expect to lose it all. They will give us no choice. That's how fascists roll every single time”.
Ayup. Brilliant. Just found out I can sell my house and make enough to move way further into the boondocks than I had hoped. My whole hobby/life’s work is gonna be Resist(!) and throw a little damage around when I can. And fishing. I’m gonna be fishing a lot from the best goddamned Kayak I can find. We need about 12,000,000 or so others. I’m not optimistic.
Outsiders justifying the shoot, like here, is just self interested speculation.
If the authorities thought the shoot was justified, there'd be a record, and we'd know both the justification and the shooter. Just like any other cop shooting elsewhere. That we don't know 12 days after the fact strongly suggests the opposite.
Then again, maybe this person is Seal Team Six and his identity must remain secret./s
BTW, perhaps someone who's seen the footage can tell me, did the shooter issue any warning before opening fire?
And by the way, Althouse, it was not a riot. I was merely a "mostly peaceful protest" that became mildly kinetic.
To me, the video, perhaps unwittingly, reinforces the notion that experienced agitators of uncertain affiliation at the perimeter induced a bunch of inexperienced Trump-supporting protesters to enter the Capitol, whereupon the protesters became slightly awe-struck and thoroughly at loose ends about what to do next. This is not to excuse the protesters; I deplore their behavior, and the law should treat them every bit as harshly as it would treat such trespassers who supported other political figures or causes. I'm particularly curious about the guy who referred to Trump by name as "your boss" -- does anyone know if he has been identified?
Althouse is a great defender of free speech.
This comments section could easily lead to her demise.
She’s a master of realpolitik and she’s doing the best she can to keep the comments section alive.
Give her a break and some respect.
Mutaman said...
"The Bidens have shown so little class. "
I know this is asking a lot, but link please.
Links are hard, thanx to Big Brother; but
Having sex with 14 year old Chinese girls shows little class
Having sex with your dead brother's widow shows little class
Having sex with your dead brother's daughter shows little class
Getting a special exemption to be able to join the military after your coke conviction...
then being kicked out for failing Your FIRST drug test shows little class
oh? you want ones for mom and pop?
Having sex with your main fund raiser's wife shows little class
Having sec with your Babysister shows little class
Swimming naked in front of your security guards shows little class
Insisting on being called "DOCTOR" because you teach at the Community College shows little class
Can we watch a video from the 2017 Inauguration riots?
No?
Did you know that every single person, including those charged with multiple felonies, not only didn't do jail time, all had their charges dismissed.
ALL.
Not one criminal among them.
The fact that anyone can watch this video, along with dozens of others showing your pals beating an unconscious police officer with flags, and NOT understand that but for shooting a woman in the throat, these jackasses were 50 feet away from actually killing members of Congress, which was their stated goal. And those of you saying you don't need to watch or don't want to watch, do it anyway.
This was in fact an insurrection and you can hear people throughout the various videos saying that this is what Trump wants us to do; do this for Trump; or anyone of a number of violent phrases references carrying out Trump's plan. This is the culmination of 5 years of outrageous lies and and violent rhetoric, combined with the absolutely cowardly refusal of any adult in the room (McConnell and Graham and Cruz come to mind) to stop him.
It actually reflects a lot of what I see on this site from you all, though I usually just lurk. Your ridiculous theories and pseudo-intellectual analyses feed into the lies. And remember this: you have aligned yourselves with people who feel perfectly happy to publicly wear grossly racist statements and "6,000,000 Was Not Enough." Own it. For once.
Get that vagina checked out champ. It’s affecting your central nervous system.
Amadeus 48 said...
Watching those guys in the Senate, I thought, "The dog caught the car. Now what?"
That’s what I thought upon Georgia sending two Democrats to the senate.
Well heres some perspective
https://youtu.be/SCu2gxVZ4E8
@donald
Cool out.
The Democrats just spent an entire year field their paramilitary forces on the street.
It was inevitable that the other side would fight back eventually.
It’s going to get worse. Try to tone down your ranting to see if we can find a way to get the Democrats to disband their paramilitary forces. Then we might avert the creation of equal paramilitary forces on the other side.
Stop ranting and try to figure out a way out of the carnage awaiting us.
Why not just steal the binder instead of photographing random pages? One more indication that there really was no planning prior to this event, at least for most of those there.
The fake viking shaman who was at climate change and thousand currents protests
Blogger mockturtle said... Francisco D warns: If you contributed to Trump and have a firearm license, look out. Big Bro is coming after your ass.
"I'm hoping we can have sanctuary cities & counties. Isn't that what one does when one doesn't want to obey federal law? Works for the Left."
I read last night Texas has already started that process. Many counties across the U.S. have too. Only the elite areas (think college towns) and big cities will follow the stupidity.
If Althouse feels uneasy....that maybe Trump supporters may interrupt her solitude with violence...
I'm OK with that.
Not because there is any chance of happening, but because she chose to let the NYT/MSM condition her otherwise sober mind.
It actually reflects a lot of what I see on this site from you all, though I usually just lurk. Your ridiculous theories and pseudo-intellectual analyses feed into the lies. And remember this: you have aligned yourselves with people who feel perfectly happy to publicly wear grossly racist statements and "6,000,000 Was Not Enough." Own it. For once.
What ? Who the fuck are you ? Another blank profile troll.
I even wonder if this is a plan to get Ann's blog censored by Google.
I said I was going fishing and was gonna fuck with the awfulness coming where I can Shouting Thomas.
You know...resist. And fish.
Interesting that old corrupt Joe doesn't trust the military.
Blogger JaimeRoberto said...
Why not just steal the binder instead of photographing random pages? One more indication that there really was no planning prior to this event, at least for most of those there.
Then planning was getting them in there. Breaking windows and bullhorns were the cadre's job. In Minneapolis, the looters took over. This time the crowd did not include any criminals, contrary to the trolls' assertions.
Michael Yon today on plans.
Jan 18, 2021 at 2:26 PM
NOW: am near White House about 1 Block
Just talked with an ANTIFA in full black bloc. He was alone so I walked up and said hello and asked if they will attack tonight. He was a little nervous and said “you don’t have to worry about us tonight. We are not fxxxxxx around with this”. Soldiers and police all around us and he was in full Antifa gear. I made his picture but on my “real” camera.
Hmmmm.
Yancey Ward said...Sure, the actual damage at the Capitol was small, but how would you feel if some barbarians stole your podium?
--
Lectern!
Lectern!!!!!
I told you this was going to happen.
Ban the speaky thingies!
And remember this: you have aligned yourselves with people who feel perfectly happy to publicly wear grossly racist statements and "6,000,000 Was Not Enough."
I like the apparent problem with that statement is that it is racist and not genocidal. It is sign of the state of the Lefty mind that racism has surpassed that all other things that not even mass homicide is worse than it.
@Ritchie Aprile
You’re just plain stupid.
If Althouse followed your prescriptions, her blog would disappear within days.
She’s doing the best she can to survive the purge.
You’re one of those idiots who think that heightened confrontation and defiance always works. It doesn’t.
I often disagree with Althouse, but she’s so far above me in terms of realpolitik strategy. You’re a dope in that regard.
Don’t shit where you eat.
Joe Biden is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life.
"Or how the FBI and NSA missed all this?"
Did they?
What did Pelosi know and when did she know it?
The fake viking shaman who was at climate change and thousand currents protests
Wait . . . he was a FAKE?!
Derek Chauvin's trial starts March 8. Don't be in a hurry to take down the plywood.
Some of you are new to Althouse and you don’t understand how she works.
She doesn’t see it as her job (or even a very useful thing) to state her opinions and advocate for a political faction.
She explicates issues from a legal standpoint and tries to set up each post in a way that is best for encouraging wide open debate.
She’s very good at it and I thank her for it.
"He was clearly afraid, as he was not standing in front of the mob. So if he is convicted, there goes the "Stand Your Ground" protections that many of us enjoy."
Per your statement, the officer was not standing their ground. That alone warrants an investigation, which isn't the same as conviction. The investigation should provide evidence as to the officer's thought process, ability to flee (not that it matters, but you seem to think it does and also you seem to believe you know what the options were), access to alternative means of restraint, and orders on rules of engagement. As the officer is a public official, it should provide their name.
But failure of the officer to provide adequate defense of their actions does not mean a law is null and void. That you make such a claim suggests you don't know how the law works.
War correspondent, Michael Yon, who has been in Iraq, Hong Kong, Portland and a few Color Revolutions uprising said he identified at least four separate highly trained Agent Provocateur groups at the 1/6 DC Rally. Not saying Trump people didn't get caught up in it all, but that's what Agent Provocateur's do.
https://youtu.be/4bIeKj7fZ8U
You people want me on that kayak. You people need me on that kayak. Or something.
Own it. For once.
Nope. Not until you wave your finger of shame at your side for doing much, much worse for the last six months.
I'm not expecting that to happen, so take your lecture and shove it up your ass.
I watched that video yesterday when Inga posted it as part of her expose of Parler videos and the "insurrectionists." I pointed out the the rally crowd was massive, anywhere from 100K-300K peaceful people who were not insurrectionists, while the number of people who breached the Capitol was more like 300 people.
It was an ugly scene and in a way Biden was correct when he immediately responded to unify us all /sarc that had the protest at the Capitol been BLM the police's reaction would have been very different. Yes, had BLM breached the Capitol the desks in the Senate chamber would have been used for kindling. Seeing the damage of cities burned out this past summer of course there would have been a serious police presence. However if BLM had managed to breach the police/National Guard ... God forbid...my guess is that the police would have been instructed not to shoot. Just call the fire department.
The thing that bothered me about the article was the first sentence: "By the end of President Donald Trump’s crusade against American democracy—after a relentless deployment of propaganda, demagoguery, intimidation, and fearmongering aimed at persuading as many Americans as possible to repudiate their country’s foundational principles—a single word sufficed to nudge his most fanatical supporters into open insurrection." Really, Trump's crusade against American democracy???
How about the efforts in 2017 to block streets and prevent people from getting to the Trump Inauguration and parties? Inauguration Riots Where were the foundational principles of free speech and free elections and peaceful transfer of power?
Are we in CYA mode now?
Maybe that video is already gone? Try this: 2017 Inauguration Riots
Are we in CYA mode now?
Far worse than that.
The Democrat’s use of its paramilitary forces, BLM and Antifa, is tacitly condoned and accepted.
The Republicans are forbidden even from freelance violence.
This will not hold. The right will ultimately attain equal status in this arms race, by one means or another, and we’ll all be in deep shit.
I agree, ST. Not a happy thought.
Unlike you Shoutie I don’t want to eat Althouse.
Then I’m assuming you’re gay, because she’s a lovely lady.
Or else you’re a bot here to surreptitiously undermine and extinguish her blog.
The only other possibility (probably the most likely) is that you’re just a fucking moron.
Re: the Bidens.
Sniff!
How quickly they forget, kiddo.
I like Richie Aprile's Blogger profile.
I hope I'm getting the joke right.
The synthesized sequel promises to be a blockbuster.
cacimbo said...
Looks like two completely different groups.
-----------============
are the two groups in the same video?
did this "war correspondent" manage to report from two fronts simultaneously?
(I have not and don't plan to watch - is look-see worse than hear-say?)
I await the post on the graffiti that will be performed on the plywood in DC shop windows.
Because it isn't about people, really. It is about their self expression. Or something.
Blogger Michael K said...
...
Then(sic) planning was getting them in there. Breaking windows and bullhorns were the cadre's job. In Minneapolis, the looters took over. This time the crowd did not include any criminals, contrary to the trolls' assertions.
Watching the video, the lack of senseless damage was one of the things that struck me. I would have expected an enraged mob, bent on destruction, to be swatting the pictures off of the hallway walls and setting fire to the desks in the well of the Senate. Watch any Antifa mostly peaceful (but fiery) protest for an example of this.
Jesus told Peter he must forgive his brother 7 times 70 times. That's 490. There were 275 riots last year, all from the left. One from the right in 2021. So I suppose these guys weren't living up to their Christian responsibility to forgive but ... 275 - 1? It was gonna happen, one way or the other.
"Mutaman,
You are lying dog-faced pony soldier."
Eloquently put , Robespierre
Blogger Stan Smith said...
Joe Biden is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life.
Love this. I assume it is sarcasm or else you were raised by wolves.
tcrosse said...Derek Chauvin's trial starts March 8. Don't be in a hurry to take down the plywood.
I have been assured that the protests will be mostly peaceful unless the cops and Trump stormtroopers start a riot.
During the video there was a part where one of the rioters in the Senate chambers, sees something described as Senator Cruz's objections to the certification of the Arizona electoral votes. This guy then remarks something like, "Oh I always knew Cruz would betray us." Then other people explained to him that this meant Cruz disagreed with the election process. I remember thinking to myself, "They're not sending their brightest."
Only the best people...
A Texas man with ties to a far-right militia participated in the deadly Jan. 6 siege of the U.S. Capitol and threatened to shoot his children if they turned him in to authorities, according to court documents.
Guy Reffitt, a resident of the Dallas suburb of Wylie, was arguing with his son and daughter about his trip to Washington D.C., when he made threatening remarks, his wife told the FBI.
"If you turn me in, you’re a traitor and you know what happens to traitors … traitors get shot," he allegedly said.
Even worse, the homeless are swept up in the fervor and starting fires.
Here is a link to an AP article about police preparedness during the "riot."
https://apnews.com/article/capitol-siege-donald-trump-riots-only-on-ap-michael-pence-a27921d08ca949c0b1e64c33628dd80e
Lots of interesting stuff.
For major events, the Capitol Police normally holds meetings to brief officers on their responsibilities and plans in case of an emergency. Three of the officers interviewed by the AP said there were no meetings on or before Jan. 6. It’s also unclear whether the department held over its overnight shift or called in more officers early to help those who would be on duty that day.
“During the 4th of July concerts and the Memorial Day concerts, we don’t have people come up and say, ‘We’re going to seize the Capitol,’” one officer said. “But yet, you bring everybody in, you meet before. That never happened for this event.”
Lots more in the article.
1. My prejudice was that the Capitol Hill police (and whatever other police/military were involved) didn't do much to keep the doors locked and protected. That prejudice is confirmed by the video.
2. Some protestors were vulgar and bent on destruction. But most were angry, but civil. As a group, they weren't destructive at all. Not nearly as destructive as the statue tippers in Madison, say; and not nearly as disruptive as the Madison protestors of years ago.
3. The argument that "Trump told us to do this," is just silly. The protestors are trying to convince the police that the police should be on their side -- after all, they work for Trump. (Well they probably don't if they were Capitol Police.) But it wasn't really a set of well reasoned arguments.
4. Overall, the video doesn't warrant the media hysteria (are we still allowed to use that word?).
Looking forward to the Frontline documentary.
I am not going to watch a video that has been carefully edited by the New Yorker to score propaganda points. Sorry. How many times can you be lied to? How many stories did the New Yorker carry based on lies about Trump and Russia?
"I pointed out the the rally crowd was massive, anywhere from 100K-300K peaceful people who were not insurrectionists”
Remember that the rules of Nazi politics are what are being followed by Democrats. Two important tenets are “guilt by association” and “collective punishment” This is piled on top of rescinding freedom of assembly and speech damping by the oligopoly that controls the mass media and is aligned with the incoming regime, whoever they are.
It’s way too easy to leave key points out of a video like this, just like the New Yorker never got around to reporting that the FBI had been told before the Mueller investigation even started that the whole Russia thing was cooked up by the Hillary campaign. This is a matter of public record. You show me where the New Yorker reported that story and I will possibly believe that they served up an honest cut of what happened.
"200 charged with felony rioting at Trump’s inauguration, all charges dropped.”
https://twitter.com/MattBraynard/status/1350553519116455936
Democrat prosecutors have been normalizing and condoning violence for four years, if you suddenly became against violence on January 6, all I can say is “Welcome to the party, pal."
This really couldn't be described as a riot, much less an insurrection- not one of these guys thought to take a giant shit on Pelosi's chair.
Here's a former Facebook executive on CNN *explicitly urging that the same tactics that were used in cooperation with the US security state to remove ISIS from the internet now be used against "conservative influencers," to deprogram everyone to believe the CNN/liberal consensus: - Glenn Greenwald
https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1350871209332920322
Glenn Greenwald always a must read.
Once they purge the Nat Guard there of the approx 75% Trump voters, they can make some cool dance videos.
Not all heroes wear capes.
Maybe a group "Twerk on Washington". It's a thing.
"he fact that anyone can watch this video, along with dozens of others showing your pals beating an unconscious police officer with flags,”
Have they arrested them and interrogated them? Checked their background, these people. I am of course horrified that this happened, and I want to know who is guilty of it before I go on a guilt by association and collective punishment rampage.
Whoever these people are, they are not “my pals.”
Trump supports are famous for their disrespect for police and Antifa is famous for respect for our officers in blue. It’s just way to farfetched to think that somebody could pose as a Trump supporter to make Trump look bad. It couldn’t possibly happen. It’s almost as likely as somebody coming to this blog to post hate speech to get this blog banned. Impossible!
The above is a propaganda technique known as ‘gaslighting.'
Blogger Readering said...
Looking forward to the Frontline documentary.
Readering, you really should watch this Frontline video. You might learn something.
Nah, you won't.
Blogger Howard said...
Only the best people...
A Texas man with ties to a far-right militia participated in the deadly Jan. 6 siege of the U.S. Capitol
Howard has an unerring instinct for crazies. You and Inga are the comic relief around here.
Alright, Mutaman- I will say this- Joe Biden is the classiest groper of little girls in the entire state of Delaware.
“U.S. defense officials say they are worried about an insider attack or other threat from service members involved in securing President-elect Joe Biden’s inauguration, prompting the FBI to vet all of the 25,000 National Guard troops coming into Washington for the event.”
A purge of the military... Democrats are really playing the Reichstag Fire playbook to the letter.
Perhaps Biden can ask China for some troops for D.C. that can be trusted.
Or request a U.N. security force.
The truth hurts.
That is why it must be hidden.
Shouting Thomas said...
Some of you are new to Althouse and you don’t understand how she works
It's a little known fact that getting lectured on decorum by Shouting Thomas is the seventh sign of the apocalypse.
Ha!
Bagho20- "I wish it wasn't needed, but it will be an honor to face up to the sacrifice it may require'
There is no greater love, than a man give his life for his friends. Sacrifice.
The Honor is in the willingness. It has nothing to do with the emotions of NOW.
Always...There is no greater love, than a man give his life for his friends. Sacrifice.
See you on the other side, Bagho20. I'm with you.
I didn't watch the video but it sounds like this guy is doing what Michael Moore would do if he could fit through window the small group of riotous protesters entered from.
@Daddy Binx: Please edify
"Didn't protesters literally crush one of the policemen to death?"
There are so many conflicting reports about those deaths there is no consensus story outside of Babbit's death. One of the Capitol Police is believed to had a stroke and was not even at the scene.
"One of the Capitol Police is believed to had a stroke and was not even at the scene."
So- cause of death covid, then?
Why does Movelson sound like a huge beta boy and why am I not surprised?
On the one hand, I'm sorry no one reacted or responded to my 3:01pm comment.
On the other, the strained justifications stopped.
CLINTON AND PELOSI CONFIRM TRUMP PLANNED RIOT WITH PUTIN
Hillary Clinton Says President Trump Likely Called Vladimir Putin During Capitol Riot (AUDIO)
Jesse Kelly
@JesseKellyDC
· 2h
I still cannot believe we watched Antifa/BLM terrorize American cities for months without a single public arrest by the FBI. Not one.
But they’re tracking down the capitol people like it’s John Dillinger.
Bill Barr sucks.
The dog caught the car - that about sums up what I saw. Shoving at the doors to get in, cheering when they got in, then wandering around looking for something to do. It was disrespectful and that was sad to see; it was not an insurrection.
It's called an insurrection because it lit up like a lightening flash a huge gulf between Congress and the people. And Congress hasn't recovered from the sight. They've got a wall, 25,000 troops and barbed wire everywhere; the media is with them. They always felt safe before without all that; they've never felt safe again. One thing they could have done is call for election reform in the states since people were so upset. But, urged on by the media and Twitter, they thought it would be more fun to call for Trump to be impeached. I expect Salome found it rather fun to call for the head of John the Baptist on platter and thought she was quite smart when she got it. But was government by a dancing girl, smart government?
I expect Salome found it rather fun to call for the head of John the Baptist on platter and thought she was quite smart when she got it. But was government by a dancing girl, smart government?
Of course it was actually Salome's mother, Herodia, who told her to ask for the Baptist's head.
Begley,
" I've seen bigger messes at frat houses BEFORE a party"
FIFY.
Reactions
1 disorganized yahoos
2 not bent on destruction, but with feelings high, who knows
3 rational to assume they present a threat
4 I wish one Senator had had the courage to face ghem down. Cannot blame anyone for not doing so.
5 riots are caused by a lack of incoming fire. These people should have been tear gassed long before they got to the chamber
I hope none of you pearl-clutchers learn about the Boston Tea Party.
I watched the full video. I was shocked by how pathetic the "insurrection" was (or is claimed by the D's and main stream media). I expected such an operation to be more like what I saw in Zero Dark 30, Valkyrie or 24. You know. Planned out and well executed, even if it failed as it did in Valkyrie (because stuff happens that can derail a great plan).
Please watch the entire video of me helping my friends to clean up the fire-and-violence-and-riot damage to their small Minneapolis business that they built from the ground up beginning over fifteen years ago, in which they eventually realize that the building will never again be occupiable because the damage is too extensive.
Spare me the "poor DC pols" carp.
Pretty weak tea as riots go - no one's livelihood destroyed, no real vandalism, no statues overturned, fires set, or graffiti sprayed. Not a patch on the Burning, Looting, and Mayhem at the George Floyd riots. At least one "rioter" was shot by Capital police, but you know if they had been Lefties the headline would have been "Peaceful Protestor Shot by Cop." And how about the occupation of the Wisconsin State Capitol in protest of the election of Scott Walker - basically the same event but a totally different media slant. I see some media equipment was destroyed, but it's hard not to feel that it served them right.
Curious how there's this bias that Antifa is somehow worse than those who rioted at the capitol on 1/6/21. Seems that both sides are essentially the same, in that they are willing to go to violent extremes. to favor one over the other appears to show bias.
The other bit that I'm not seeing in any of the comments (admittedly, I have not read all of the currently 294 comments) is that of agent provocateurs. This is a tactic used by intelligence, FBI, local police and others. Based on what history has shown us of this tactic, since at least the 1960s, you can safely bet that agents have infiltrated both Antifa, and those at the capitol to incite violence, in order to discredit those groups.
Lastly, this childish, naive bias seen in some comments here, that either political party is somehow better than the other is absurd. Both sides appear to be almost (but not entirely) populated by greedy, self serving, dishonest persons. to think that "your" party is somehow better than the other side is even more pathetic. Neither side cares about any of us, or our needs. We're just voters to be used for their ends. If they could eliminate voting, we wouldn't hear as much from them or their rhetoric, except to motivate the populace to their ends.
The BBC documentary "The Century of the Self" is spot on. We are manipulated, propagandized and our consent is manufactured, and most don't and won't see it. This is the situation we are faced with, and it explains why so many continue to believe the political, two party fairy tale most believe in. Especially in light of the rampant corruption and abuse of the system by these so-called "public servants" that has been going on for decades.
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