He's saying — to put it bluntly — that black people can be counted on to vote for Democrats if you can just get them to vote. They're in the "get-out-the-vote universe." But Hispanic people are like white people. They're in the "persuasion universe." Just getting them out to vote doesn't work. They can — and did — vote for Republicans. The House districts that the GOP flipped in this past election were in what the NYT calls "heavily Hispanic or Asian regions."
What's wrong with the Democrat's persuasion to Hispanic-Americans and Asian-Americans?
“Defund police, open borders, socialism — it’s killing us,” said Representative Vicente Gonzalez, a Democrat from South Texas... The “average white person,” Mr. Gonzalez added, may associate socialism with Nordic countries, but to Asian and Hispanic migrants it recalls despotic “left-wing regimes.”
Representative Harley Rouda of California, an Orange County Democrat who narrowly lost his bid for re-election... said he suffered with centrist voters and his district’s numerous Vietnamese-American voters, many of whom recoil from the rhetoric of socialism....
पोस्ट्स
१०१ टिप्पण्या:
Central Americans are pretty religious. They work hard. They believe in family. They have to compete with illegals on wages, and would prefer to have less competition, just like everybody else. The reason that Republicans have done will with working class people is because immigration benefits the wealthy at the expense of unskilled and semi-skilled labor. It’s not about racism, it’s about economics. You would think that Marxists could understand that, but they have stars in their eyes about re-engineering the electorate so that they won’t lose elections no matter how far left they go. And, BTW, no matter how corrupt they get. Look at their standard bearing, he is the most openly corrupt person ever to get this close to being elected..
Yes, in other words, people who actually experienced socialism, vote against it. People who have experienced no law enforcement, vote against those looking to remove law enforcement.
My only question is, how do any of today's Democrats get any votes? Aside from college graduates, who would vote for a Democrat? And given that college graduates seem to be, on the whole, completely uninformed about the reality of socialism, economics, and law enforcement, one wonders what they actually learn in college these days to receive those slips of paper they think earn them a spot in the ruling class?
Maybe the African American electorate is unique in its knee-jerk support of the Democrats.
This was rohrabackers district for more the 25 years.
The narrative is SWEDEN, SWEDEN, SWEDEN. America needs to aspire towards this type of good socialism.
Pay no attention to those Venezuelas or Cambodias behind the curtain.
Remind me again which Party is the racist party, putting people into little boxes?
Biden, Eva Longoria, this guy. "C'mon man, you Latinos aren't like those Blacks." This election gives us a preview of the coming conflicts between African-Americans and Latinos -- conflicts and resentments indeed between the different minority and grievance groups. "Intersectionality" always was a myth. Something for seminar rooms, faculty clubs, and corporate retreats that doesn't really reflect how the world has always really worked.
My only question is, how do any of today's Democrats get any votes? Aside from college graduates, who would vote for a Democrat?
Maybe the African American electorate is unique in its knee-jerk support of the Democrats.
well,
my bleeding heart liberal mother (who's 88 years old) always votes for the democrat;
Why? she supports FDR!!!
my father votes for whoever his wife tells him to
so, NO african americans are NOT the only stupid people
"Here’s a quick primer on the Census Bureau’s approach of using self-identification to decide who is Hispanic."
I immigrated to Phoenix from Mexico. Am I Hispanic?
You are if you say so.
My parents moved to New York from Puerto Rico. Am I Hispanic?
You are if you say so.
My grandparents were born in Spain but I grew up in California. Am I Hispanic?
You are if you say so.
I was born in Maryland and married an immigrant from El Salvador. Am I Hispanic?
You are if you say so.
I was born in Argentina but grew up in Texas. I don’t consider myself Hispanic. Does the Census Bureau count me as Hispanic?
Not if you say you aren’t.
Define hispanic.
John Henry
"If he can bridge Washington’s bitter partisan divides to craft successful policies to fight the coronavirus pandemic and revive the economy, he may well have a chance to transform his party’s loose anti-Trump coalition into a more stable electoral majority." Joking? He will do next to nothing, of course. If he's fortunate and the pandemic comes to its end soon, and the economy picks up soon on its own, then "he may well have a chance to transform his party’s loose anti-Trump coalition into a more stable electoral majority."
“What's wrong with the Democrat's persuasion to Hispanic-Americans and Asian-Americans?“
Why would people who identify as Black be any less persuadable than anyone else?
Temujin said, "
My only question is, how do any of today's Democrats get any votes?"
Oh, my. Just look at people like Howard, Inga and Chuck the c#*t. They and their like mindless friends are the ones who vote for democrats. Multiple times. It appears.
Once they've convinced themselves. Or have been convinced that what you and I stand for is the epitome of evil then any behavior to fight that evil is acceptable. They are easily led. Even the brightest can be goaded into suspending logic. They are on a religious crusade. On the left the men have no honor and the women have no will. They have weaponized children to do violence on their behalf. It's not that most of them don't like this country. They just don't like you and I as participants in it.
That is why those of us who voted for Trump were loathe to put a sign up in our yards. Our prog neighbors would, at the least steal the sign. At worse they would damage our homes and/or our vehicles.
Violence is acceptable for the left if they are told that anyone who argues against them is evil.
I try to keep this thought in mind when dealing with any of the usual suspects.
The “average white person,” Mr. Gonzalez added, may associate socialism with Nordic countries, but to Asian and Hispanic migrants it recalls despotic “left-wing regimes.”
Good for Gonzalez. He stopped just short of saying "Aryan."
Would like to see 2020 Pres voting behavior by racial group, broken down by income level.
I assume this is much more expensive, so better not hold our breath.
I'm old enough to remember when 'latinos' were going to pour across the border and flood the zone with Democrats. Turn Texas red and all...
I'd go by IQ.
If we can just keep the Democrats pandering to the "get out the vote" crowd...
Nothing says "persuasion" like treating your voters like mindless lumpenvolk.
What is always missing in their 'analysis' is the contemplation that their polices might be shit and therefore unpopular.
The hard truth that pretty much everybody knows is that the overwhelming majority of people who voted for Biden actually really weren't voting for Biden specifically so much as voting against Trump. As a result of this Biden may be the weakest president ever elected in modern times. He's a placeholder until someone better comes along (assuming such a person ever does come along). He obviously doesn't have the strong base support that Obama and Trump had. And most people jusr don't really have a lot of confidence in him.
Rusty - My Mother and stepfather had at least 2 Trump signs stolen from their yard. They live in a middle/working class neighborhood that has become much more Hispanic since I left for college decades ago. However, if I had to bet, I bet the sign stealers were white.
Part of the answer is location,location,location—Az is different then Tx. As seen in the Latino voting patterns, and then with time folks will realize that expanding the minimum wage to $15 per hour, and expanding health coverage that will happen under the Biden administration is not the trended socialism they fear. People in my state swung to the Dems because they are tired of the empty promises the Republicans made—-the Foxcom scandal for example.
And then there is the insulting position of Team Donkey that people who put up with a lot to come to America want to return to the socialist hells from which they or their parents or grandparents escaped.
Take a look at the opinions of Nigerians, Senegalese, and other black Africans who have emigrated here. They love it because there is opportunity all over the place, and payoffs to government officials are the exception rather the rule.
Blogger Rusty said...
Temujin said, "
My only question is, how do any of today's Democrats get any votes?"
Oh, my. Just look at people like Howard, Inga and Chuck the c#*t. They and their like mindless friends are the ones who vote for democrats. Multiple times. It appears.
...
What horseshit.
I’ve never supported Democrats or Democratic politicians until we had four years of Donald Trump’s ruination of the Republican Party. And now that Trump is defeated, I hope that Trumpism within the Party can also be defeated.
The 2020 election showed that the majority feared four more years of Trump as President, and also fear what some perceived as Democratic Party “socialism.”
Nobody knows what color all those mail in ballots were.
Anyone know where to find a list of all the questionable issues with the voting?
The narrative is SWEDEN, SWEDEN, SWEDEN
@Wilbur, at least until Sweden chose not use lockdowns in the face of coronavirus.
R/V--who knew that Foxcomm could stimulate single-vote-for-president turnout in Milwaukee?
...[W]ith time folks will realize that expanding the minimum wage to $15 per hour, and expanding health coverage that will happen under the Biden administration is not the trended socialism they fear.
I hope that "with time," all those "folks" will come to love their robot burgers.
Hispanics and Asians marry freely with whites. I think the statistics in some communities are around 40%. Their children are American. This is a good thing.
Chuck--Didn't you vote for Trump in 2016? You told us you did. Didn't Trump do a little better on policy issues than you thought he would?
Take a look at this:
https://youtu.be/MMrEzqwffEs
Welcome to Upside Down Land.
I’ve never supported Democrats or Democratic politicians until we had four years of Donald Trump’s ruination of the Republican Party. And now that Trump is defeated, I hope that Trumpism within the Party can also be defeated.
The 2020 election showed that the majority feared four more years of Trump as President, and also fear what some perceived as Democratic Party “socialism.”
The only part of this that we believe comes from what substitutes for your heart is the quote marks around the word socialism, Chuck.
What horseshit.
I’ve never supported Democrats or Democratic politicians until we had four years of Donald Trump’s ruination of the Republican Party. And now that Trump is defeated, I hope that Trumpism within the Party can also be defeated.
I am curious. People just blast you for your positions.
What then should be the alternative path forward post Trump?
I know an older couple who emigrated to the US from mainland China. Today’s Democrat rhetoric terrifies them.
I'm not convinced.
tim in vermont said...
According to Rudy, Dominion Software is based on code developed in Venezuela by Chavez supporters. It is also mostly owned by Democrats.
Closer to home, get to know Eric Coomer, Dominion Director of Strategy and Security, now scrubbed from Dominion's profiles page.
I urge you to watch the Michelle Malkin interview of Joe Oltman (before Facebook takes it down).
Oltman explained that “Eric” was telling the Antifa members they needed to “keep up the pressure.” When Oltman asked, “Who’s Eric?” someone answered, “Eric, he’s the Dominion guy.” Oltman said that as the conversation continued, someone asked, “What are we gonna do if F*cking Trump wins?” Oltman paraphrased how Eric (the Dominion guy) responded, “Don’t worry about the election, Trump’s not gonna win. I made f*cking sure of that!”
After Oltman, who runs a data company, finished the call, he started to investigate “Eric from Dominion,” in Denver, CO., and came upon Eric Coomer. Oltman admitted that it didn’t make sense that Eric Coomer would be the Antifa member on the call and that at the time, he knew nothing about Dominion Voting Systems.
It wasn’t until after he started hearing about Dominion Voting Systems in the news following the election that he remembered the remarks made by “Eric from Dominion” on the Antifa chat.
Oltman began digging into Eric Coomer, trying to find anything he could about him. Oltman finally hit gold when he was able to (legally) access what he claims is Dominion VP, Eric Coomer’s Facebook page. What he found was stunning. Joe Oltman said he never saw such hate and vitriol coming from someone who has a Ph.D. in Nuclear Physics. Oltman explained to Malkin that Coomer actually re-posted the Antifa manifesto to President Trump on his Facebook page.
Doc K at 835- You are correct. But if the address is connected to each mail in vote, then I bet most of those 100% Biden votes come from 100% poor black communities. If not 100%, close to 100%.Very poor, dying neighborhoods.
Each big city have those neighborhoods. And honestly, well, most of us commenting avoid those neighborhoods like our life depends on it.
I worried about posting the above because of being "found out" and attacked, but I believe it is 100% factual.
Democrats are racist. They give you hundreds of clues every year.
Their argument that Voter ID is unconstitutional is based on the "fact" (see Obama DOJ case in federal court in NC) that blacks aren't intelligent enough to figure out how to get an ID. Which party is racist?
There is something psychologically defective about people who demonstrate they are racist all the time, yet are convinced that their opponents are for arguing that people should be treating equally.
"Not a single deal of any kind was made between Trump and any powerful counter party. Domestic or foreign."
Yeah. That's why Biden is going to undo them all. China and Iran--open wide. Here we come! Bye, bye Israel.
Representative Harley Rouda of California, an Orange County Democrat who narrowly lost his bid for re-election... said he suffered with centrist voters and his district’s numerous Vietnamese-American voters, many of whom recoil from the rhetoric of socialism....
Great name. What could a "Harley Rouda" possibly be? I looked him up. A Midwestern Republican businessman who sells off the family firm, moves to California, takes up with a new agey feminist novelist and gets Michael Bloomberg to fund his campaign for election to Congress as a Democrat. I smell a Pulitzer-winning novel. Maybe even a sitcom.
“Defund police, open borders, socialism — it’s killing us,” said Representative Vicente Gonzalez, a Democrat from South Texas.“
It’s difficult for Democrats to get elected when people are aware of what they stand for. The leftmedia can’t run cover for them forever, particularly when Democrat Brownshirts are rampaging on the streets while Democrat electeds are enabling them. Meanwhile, the growing socialist wing of the party is indiscreet about Democrats real agenda.
Not everybody is a useful idiot regardless of the efforts of the NYT.
Please stick to the ethnic vote question. Go to a cafe if you want to discuss the law firms or the challenges to the vote count or whether the word “convincing” in the headline is convincing.
Chuck said: “I’ve never supported Democrats or Democratic politicians until we had four years of Donald Trump’s ruination of the Republican Party. And now that Trump is defeated, I hope that Trumpism within the Party can also be defeated.”
If “Trumpism” is defeated, only do-nothing swamprats will remain. Trumpers vote for Republicans only to avoid voting for Democrats. Without Trumpism there is no Republican Party.
Chuck is a devotee of the Biden adage: “We value [our] truth over facts.”
Looking at the AZ election map, most of our Mexico border went blue. You can blame some of that on the university town mindset, but not enough. We are seriously blue in heavily Hispanic communities.
Why would the Leftwing mouthpiece publish this very narrow report? Who benefits?
Fernandinande,
Our comments got crossed in posting. You, sort of, answered my question before I asked. Thank you in advance, I guess.
You are quite right, of course. The official federal govt position has always been that you are what you identify as. Unless you are a Native American/Indian. Then self-identification is not enough. Formal membership in a recognized tribe is required. (Or was 20-30 years ago when I taught such stuff)
If I identify as African-Chinese, the Federal govt has to accept this and give me any special bonus hiring points etc.
However, if I raised a claim that I was discriminated against because I was African-Chinese, I would have to prove the person doing the discrimination believed I was African-Chinese.
All that said, it is not really what I had in mind asking my question. To put me in the Puerto Rican/Hispanic bucket as the author does with tens of millions of people, they would have to know what I consider myself and they don't.
My question was more about how they define this huge heterogenuous group they call hispanic.
I know of at least 10 different definitions of hispanic in that context.
I have never, to my knowledge, met anyone anywhere who meets all 10. For example, some may speak Spanish but not have a Spanish surname, others may trace their ancestry to Cuba, Mexico, Argentina, puerto Rico etc but not to Spain.
Others may trace their aincestry to Spain but have non hispanic surnames (Like Basques). It may be determined on the basis of looks but that doesn't work either. The black Puerto Rican is indistinguishable from a black Alabamian.
I AM Puerto Rican? Does that make me "hispanic"? I do not claim it, except ironically since I find the term offensive in the way it is generally used. This article, for example.
So my question was more rhetorical than real. I would be curious how the author defines "hispanic" I'll be happy to discuss it but there is no real need.
John Henry
And so on.
Ah the Life Long Republican Chuckster---Trump has ruined the Republican Party that Chuck belonged go. And in that Chuck is probably correct--his party of one or two LLRs feels that their party is ruined.
But our host has sked that we stick to the ethnic vote question. Well the Democrat consultant qouted in the story feels that all Blacks are still down on the Democrat Vote Plantation and when Massuh calls, they say "Yah Boss" and trudge off to vote Democrat. But that frayed a bit in this election. Trump actually picked up a slightly greater percentage of Black votes than in 2016--or so I'm told. If the Republicans put up another Republican of the type preferred by Chuck in 2020, the Black renegades who voted for Trump will return to the Democrat Vote Plantation.
Hispanics--a very diverse group lumped under a somewhat common language--are a very different proposition. When I say "somewhat common language", I'd point out that immigrants born in Mexico may not even speak Spanish. Those born in Oaxaca for example often don't speak Spanish. But for argument's sake, group everyone who comes from a country where some variant of Spanish is spoken as "Latinx". Republican consultants have dreamed of a solid socially conservative voting bloc. Democrat consultants have dreamed of a grateful brown mass of future lifelong Democrat voters swarming across our borders from the south.
Both sets of consultants will be disappointed. It appears that any politician or political agenda will have to be "sold" to members of this very diverse group. The horror of it all--you mean that we have to treat "Hispanics" as individual people with their own individual agendas, hopes and dreams? They won't automatically respond to a call from some Democrat padrone, caudillo or jefe?
I hate to break it to you Buckwheat, but that seems to be the case. The danged Hispanics have minds of their own. I'm reminded of that old cartoon about an advertising executive who has to explain the failure of an advertising campaign to an irate client. The advertising executive says, "The dogs don't like the dog food."
R/V makes two antithetical thoughts in adjacent sentences.
"Part of the answer is location,location,location—Az is different then Tx. As seen in the Latino voting patterns, and then with time folks will realize that expanding the minimum wage to $15 per hour..."
The exact problem with $15/hour national minimum wage IS location, location, location. Mississippi has a $38K per capita income-a $15/hour minimum wage will destroy its economy.
Furthermore, a $15 minimum wage increases income inequality. The CBO estimates that $1.3 million workers would be moved above the poverty line but 1.3 million would also lose their jobs.
It will hit the poorest states the hardest. It will hit he youth the hardest, knocking the bottom rung of the working poor's economic ladder out. France has wealthy world's highest effective minimum wage with a 26% unemployment rate for 15-24 year old.
When Seattle raised their minimum wage hours went down, resulting in a net loss of wages. When San Francisco raised its minimum wage, lower end restaurants (the ones the poor can actually afford to go to) closed disproportionately.
After NYC raised its minimum wage in 2018, citywide unemployment went up from 4% to 4.3% over the next three months.
Back to the start-the whole point of Federalism is location, location, location. Nationalizing the minimum wage, like so may other proposed Democratic policies, will make the people it claims to help worse off.
A couple people have used "Latino" in comments. I see Latino as synonymous with Hispanic. At least in common usage.
But then we come to defining it, too. I commented in another thread that Portuguese speakers from Brazil are legally considered to be hispanic under federal law. I do not understand why.
Someone commented that it was because they speak a romance or Latin based language.
So does the Pope (Latin) Berlesconi (Italian) Nicolae Ceaușescu (Romanian)or Macron (French). Are they "latino"? And if so, are they also, since the words seem synonymous, "hispanic"?
And let's not get Buwaya started on whether Filipinos are "hispanic". They are at least as hispanic as Puerto Ricans and Mexicans.
Yet they are mostly considered "Asian".
John Henry
Define hispanic.
Joe Biden on stage, mid-speech and the teleprompter goes dark...
Mississippi has a $38K per capita income-a $15/hour minimum wage will destroy its economy.
And this is a problem for roesch because why, exactly?
One thing that is "wrong with persuasion techniques" to hispanics is that they are viewed as a heterogenuous group.
They are not. We can divide American hispanics into 3 broad groups Puerto Rican, Mexican & Cuban. 90% or so fall into one of these groups. Then, lots of subgroups in each.
Other than language, the 3 groups have next to nothing in common.
So trying to appeal to hispanics is always going to fail. What gets the Puerto Rican support will piss off the Mexicans. What the Mexicans like will annoy the Cubans and so on.
John Henry
The Hispanic community consists of multiracial, multiethnic, multicultural, mticlass subgroups that are as dissimilar as a San Fran Pride marcher and a Tulsa Baptist preacher. That, and the feudal Spanish system imported to America that still exists, especially among immigrant poor to the US, requires what is essentially an exercise in civic education for new arrivals here, before any useful communication can occur about voting for a candidate.
I'm very happy that one Latina republican in particular won. Good bye Donna Shalala. There was absolutely no reason for you to run for Congress at age 79. I hope in two years a cascade of other geriatrics goes with you.
Unlike this “average dumb democrat” this average white guy knows that their are no socialist Nordic countries and resent Bernie’s insistence that “white Nordic socialism” is even a thing. We all know he’s talking about the Scandinavian region’s neighbor to the east. The Soviets were a rather Caucasian incarnation of Socialism. That’s Bernie’s template and we all know it. Funny how it matches the template these stereotypical Asians and “Hispanics” he imagines have as well. Hmmm.
Blogger Big Mike said...
I know an older couple who emigrated to the US from mainland China. Today’s Democrat rhetoric terrifies them.
Back in the 70s there was a Chinese restaurant I used to lunch at frequently. The owner, probably in his 60s was from mainland China. He had managed to escape to Taiwan.
Then Chiang kai Shek came to Taiwan and he fled to Cuba.
Then Castro came and he fled to Puerto Rico.
FALN and other violent nationalist groups were active in PR at the time and they scared the shit out of him. He thought it was just like China, Taiwan and Cuba and he really didn't want to have to flee again.
John Henry
variant of Spanish is spoken as "Latinx".
Tim,
Would that be "Un Latinx" or "Una Latinx"?
Which article does it take, the masculine or the feminine?
John Henry
MartyH: "R/V makes two antithetical thoughts in adjacent sentences."
Posting mutually exclusive assertions/conclusions within the same post and often within the same sentence, is R/V's modus operandi and remains very on brand for him/her/xer.
“ Defund police, open borders, socialism — it’s killing us,” said Representative Vicente Gonzalez, a Democrat from South Texas who won just over 50 percent of the vote two years after he nearly captured 60 percent. “I had to fight to explain all that.”
The “average white person,” Mr. Gonzalez added, may associate socialism with Nordic countries, but to Asian and Hispanic migrants it recalls despotic “left-wing regimes.”‘“
Yeah, maybe to the average Democrat white person. To the average sensible white person, Socialism is also associated with Cuba, China and various other other despotic regimes.
Maybe Hispanics are more diverse than blacks.
A few months ago I stood in line at a bakery wearing the Do Justice Love Mercy shirt of my church's anti-human trafficking organization. The lady in front of me said, "So you must not like Trump, then." She shuffled her feet and said "Uh oh" as I hesitated.
Venezuelans like me came here to get away from corruption -- my dad was a petroleum engineer who started in the industry from the bottom up, mixing drilling mud to pay his way through college and putting out fires on the rigs. Years later, as Superintendent of Materials for an oil field in Eastern Venezuela, he rejected the pressure to buy cheap or refurbished equipment with the budget he had been allocated to buy quality. He would not take the kickbacks everyone else was pocketing. He knew what would happen to the workers out in the fields with safety compromised.
Venezuelans also know what socialism did to our country. I told her that many of us who immigrated to the US did so to escape crime, corruption, and socialism. My relatives who are also in this country support the wall because we don't want the kind of people who ruined our country to follow us here. I told her that I would like to see an Ellis Island on the border to make it easier for honest and hard working people to immigrate legally and the wall to keep the wrong kind of people out. We need to know who is getting in.
When the truth hurts.
Perhaps we should label the corrupt left what they really are- Soviet quasi-Nazi brownshirted lying liars who lie.... Socialists. The Castro family variety.
Love it! So the premise is that Hispanics are smarter than blacks.
Probably correct as Hispanics seem to want to work their asses off to get ahead.
I have never (and probably never will) see the words 'White Community' in print.
In obedience to Althouse, I will discuss the Hispanic vote.
There are two problems with the Hispanic vote. The first is, who is Hispanic? As John Henry notes, there are numerous “standard” definitions, and hardly anyone meets all of them. Hispanic last name? Means Puerto Ricans and Filipinos are included, no matter how long they’ve lived in the United States, unless they lost the Hispanic surname through marriage a generation or two before it became valuable in the affirmative action sweepstakes. Political commentator Linda Chavez pointed out that her children have a Hispanic last name but grew up in an affluent household. Do they need affirmative action?
How about being able to trace your ancestry back to the Iberian a Peninsula? That lets Sephardic Jews into the category, no matter their last name or affluence or lack of need for affirmative action.
Trying to lump Cuban refugees or children of Cuban refugees into the same category as a Mexican migrant worker never made any sense. And if you want to go to fist city, try calling a Central American a Mexican.
As I said before in another thread not long after the election, trying to group so many disparate categories of people into the category “Hispanic” makes as little sense as trying to group poor coal miner from Appalachia into the same category as a wealthy lawyer working for a white shoes law firm in Manhattan because they’re all white. Except that’s what Democrats do. Yet another mistake.
Ann Althouse said...
Please stick to the ethnic vote question. Go to a cafe if you want to discuss the law firms or the challenges to the vote count or whether the word “convincing” in the headline is convincing.
Everyone in their category.
Now.
There is something wrong if you move outside the way we have defined you. If we don't narrow the scope of thinking bad juju can intrude.
PUT YOUR MASK ON YOU MURDERER!
It is a democrat thing.
I am not going to click on the NYT article, as I won't be able to read it through, but give the NYT credit for noticing something that didn't fit their narrative. Starr County IIRC went from 18% for Trump in 2016 to 47% in 2020. I am reminded of the South -as defined by the 11 states that comprised the Confederacy- voting 26% for Dewey in 1948 and 48% for Ike in 1952. Following are some anecdotes about "Hispanics."
A neighbor is Tejano- his ancestors lived in Texas before the Anglos came. In doing an ancestral search, he discovered that he had a Converso ancestor from Monterrey. For those who don't know, Conversos were Spanish Jews who converted to Christianity in 1492 when the Spanish Crown gave them the choice of convert or leave. Many Conversos found refuge at the far ends of the empire, far from the Crown and Church but still speaking Spanish, such as northern Mexico- which included New Mexico.
As a child, he lived all over the country as his father set up restaurants for a Tex Mex chain. He got his Bachelor's at Columbia in NYC, but the liberalism there changed neither his Catholicism nor his conservatism.
Another neighbor told me his grandparents fled the carnage of the Mexican Revolution. About 2 million Mexicans, about 10% of Mexico's population, lost their lives during the Revo. As such, he doesn't have fond memories of the old country.
On year I hitched to Laredo on the way for some time off in Mexico. A Hispanic in San Antonio, upon finding out I was going to Mexico, expressed rather negative feelings about the country.
There was the soccer star in my high school class who was from Argentina. His parents were born in Russia, and got out during WW2, courtesy of being work slaves in Germany. His atheist father had a religious conversion during WW2, and became a minister. He and his wife made their way from Russia to Germany to Argentina to the US. Not exactly an anti-anti-Communist Democrat....
Around the time of the PDVSA strike and the 2004 Recall Referendum I worked for a small company that employed some Venezuelan petroleum engineers. Rest assured that most did not like the changes that Hugo Chavez imposed on PDVSA and on Venezuela. As the years went by, the ruination of PDVSA became more and more apparent.
I also knew three Argentine engineers who were refugees from Communist Hungary. Two were fellow employees who ended up living in the US.
Temujin -
Why do people vote for democrats?
easy - they buy what hollywood and the media sell them. They buy Joy Behar, Joy Reid, Rachel Soviet Chi Com Maddow, they buy CNN and D-Party TV MSNBC, and the rest of the hack press.
The hivemind loyalists on team D swallow it all whole without thinking. oh and - style.
Re: Hispanics and Asians, I think it remains to be seen whether the GOP gains were Trump-specific, or whether similar proportions will remain winnable for more conventional Republican candidates -- whether it's going to look more like McCain/Romney.
Trump has been a lot more focused on winning over Blacks than past Republicans -- not just the criminal justice stuff, but also reaching out to historically black colleges and universities, all these musicians, etc. Past Republican candidates have engaged in Black outreach at least as much to perform the upper middle class theatre of antiracism beloved by the suburban Whites Trump lost as to win over Black votes. That might have been because they assumed that with Obama there wasn't much point, but still . . .
This is the election where blacks cut their own throat. Not since Jack Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson has a President put so much effort into outreach to blacks. Trump’s First Step Act brought young men home from prison to their mothers. Given that Trump’s share of the black female vote doubled — all the way up to 8% — I infer that they wanted their sons to stay in prison.
The takeaway is that for the same effort put into getting 12% or 13% of the black vote, the GOP can get 40% to 60% of the Hispanic vote. And there are more Hispanics.
The “average white person,” Mr. Gonzalez added, may associate socialism with Nordic countries, but to Asian and Hispanic migrants it recalls despotic “left-wing regimes.”
That's because the "average" Asian or Latino who has experienced the "affectionate embrace" of a "socialist regime" actually knows what the fuck they're talking about, as opposed to the white airheads who think Nordic countries are socialist (when the Nords say "No, we isn't!") and that the second "S" in "USSR" was some kind of major branding error.
And Althouse, if you didn’t want us commenting on the word “convincing,” you might have left it out of the link. Your bias is showing.
The Nordic countries haven't been "socialist" for decades, if ever. They are more capitalist than we are, but with more extensive public benefits. We'll have to see how the latter holds up as they become less homogeneous.
Temujin said..
..one wonders what they actually learn in college these days to receive those slips of paper they think earn them a spot in the ruling class?
I think some of them learn after college that student debt is suffocating and they are voting for Dems hoping for debt forgiveness. Elizabeth Warren is calling for Biden/Harris to forgive billions of loans ( some of this money paid for her sky high pay as Pocahontas)... Dems are good at promising free stuff.
If Republicans gave young people more hopes for AFFORDABLE higher education and healthcare, Trump would have had a landslide. The cost of Universities is insane. The whole higher ed system needs to be reformed to be affordable. When poor smart kids look at the costs and realize they will be slaves to their student debt for 10-20 years they will vote for the Dems... Republicans don't focus on that issue much.
Higher education and healthcare are attractive parts of socialism. The totalitarianism of socialism and all its consequences are terrifying.
Open borders, socialism--it's encouraging that at least some Americans still recoil at prog depredations. Not cruelly neutral.
Yes maria salazar, is perhaps the most honest reporter in south florida, the ciunterpart to sharyl atkinson.
Hispanics know they’re the future of this country while Black folks are largely conditioned to do nothing but grieve over the past. So it isn’t surprising when their interests diverge. Fewer and fewer Hispanics are going to settle for being used like Democrat toilet paper every four years.
"We can divide American hispanics into 3 broad groups Puerto Rican, Mexican & Cuban."
I think you have to add Central American Hispanics. They are not Mexican Hispanics.
Fastest way to get your ass kicked is to call an El Salvadoran a 'Mexican.'
The analyses are really quite idiotic. Hispanics overwhelmingly voting for Biden and did pretty much the same for Hillary and they become somehow cerebral, while blacks are not so.
Not in florida not in texas, they may have split in california.
They won perhaps two counties in florida, duval and seminole, but did poorly in dade and broward
VenezolanaMari said...
A few months ago I stood in line at a bakery wearing the Do Justice Love Mercy shirt of my church's anti-human trafficking organization. The lady in front of me said, "So you must not like Trump, then." She shuffled her feet and said "Uh oh" as I hesitated.
Venezuelans like me came here to get away from corruption -- my dad was a petroleum engineer who started in the industry from the bottom up, mixing drilling mud to pay his way through college and putting out fires on the rigs. Years later, as Superintendent of Materials for an oil field in Eastern Venezuela, he rejected the pressure to buy cheap or refurbished equipment with the budget he had been allocated to buy quality. He would not take the kickbacks everyone else was pocketing. He knew what would happen to the workers out in the fields with safety compromised.
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May I ask if you are familiar with Rio Norte and copper mining in Atlas Shrugged?
Rand has been quoted as saying she did not want the novel to be a prophecy!
Most People take "prophecy" in sense of future events yet to come to pass.
I started wondering many a year ago if she meant her dismay that it was already happening.
I was raised as a Catholic and consider myself as being of mostly Irish heritage. I can't recall where that's had any effect on my voting patterns, at least since Bobby Kennedy....Isn't there a point where people stop being people of color and become instead Americans?.....The Hispanics and, to a lesser extent, the Asians have had to take a few lumps in America, but I don't think any of it should inspire a lasting grudge. Jews, Italians, Poles et al. were not greeted with open arms here in America..... I was involved with a Puerto Rican woman for a number of years. I think our ethnic differences were more likely to cause frisson than friction. Potatoes taste better than rice and beans, but civilized people can negotiate these differences......The Blacks have far more reason to have a grudge against white people, and, of course, that grudge serves to inspire further mistrust. The wheel keeps turning. I don't think Black/white differences are going away in the next hundred years, but the children and certainly the grandchildren of recent Hispanic and Asian immigrants will respond to politics as individuals and not as blocs.
YoungHegelian said...
The “average white person,” Mr. Gonzalez added, may associate socialism with Nordic countries, but to Asian and Hispanic migrants it recalls despotic “left-wing regimes.”
That's because the "average" Asian or Latino who has experienced the "affectionate embrace" of a "socialist regime" actually knows what the fuck they're talking about, as opposed to the white airheads who think Nordic countries are socialist (when the Nords say "No, we isn't!") and that the second "S" in "USSR" was some kind of major branding error.
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ha - you could say the same about CCCP vs CCP
Would that be "Un Latinx" or "Una Latinx"?
Think of it as an equation. The x is the unknown. When you give a value it becomes "un latino" or "una latina." That doesn't make it any less stupid, though.
BTW, it seems like it's an English or Spanglish formula. Native Spanish speakers would have the problem you pointed out using the word and would most likely avoid it.
It continues to amaze an disgust me every time I hear/read such divisive and racist statements from Dem. leadership. They are so obviously about "divide and conquer".
To start I find The Fountainhead more thought provoking in the sense of trying to figure out for oneself
So Ellsworth Toohey says "Divide and Conquer; Unite and Rule" [bedrock principle of collectivist M.O.]
Obama. Put a sock in it.
AA, problem with Dems is is their coalition is fiction. Yes they are a broad but squabbling group. Hispanics are not a unified voting block, that's fiction. Second generation Mexicans vote Republican and agree with the Trump view on immigration. Blacks and Gays have a differing view of 'Civil Rights'. Unions are at odds with Dems free trade policies. Part of this problem, is that Democrats misread the 'tea leaves' about their ethnic coalition. California is the only state where to date such strategy has worked. Texas is similar to CA and it is still a Red State. Moreover, the Northeast, which is staunchly Liberal and mostly White, is aging rapidly. The Northeast is aging rapidly and is mostly White. When they retire they become very conservative and vote accordingly. Thus losing a reliably Liberal geographic region for the Dems for the next 2 decades. Most Blacks, Hispanics and Union members lean Left on economics yet are staunch social conservatives. Gays and Single Women lean Left on political rights but are center right on economics. Therefore, Dems strategy of gaining power has been historically faulty. Dems controlled power in Congress, since the mid 1990s, by holding both Houses only once. While Republicans dominated power in Congress many more times. Yes, the USA is becoming ethnically diverse but at a pace which won't give Dems full power for decades and thereby putting their coalition in jeopardy. We have again seen such facts play out in this election. Dems believed in a huge 'Blue Wave' - turned out to be a large 'Red Wave' for Congress. We will also see the 'fraud' aspect of the election play out in people's minds. The public is not a happy camper! More than half of the voting population believe 'fraud' has happened. How that helps Trump is questionable. But the Dems strategy and their faulty coalition is dead resulting in a party which is in disarray and may collapse.
Hah! Colored people with a condescending attitude toward other colored people... colorful clumps of carbon-based cells. This conflict reminds me of homosexual expectations, nay demands, to be classified as politically congruent "=" but separate from other people in the transgender spectrum (Rainbow - exclusive of black, brown, and pride in the shredded remains of white - coalition). Diversity breeds adversity.
That said, spoil the environment, save the fence. Decarbonize! Plan "our Posterity" with a forward-looking perspective. Progress (i.e. unqualified monotonic process): one step forward, two steps backward.
So let me get this straight:
- Exit polls, which are absurdly reliable, assure us that minorities and white women voted for the President in larger proportion than 2016.
- But white men crossed over for Biden despite one of the most aggressively anti-white campaigns ever?
The word is in, and that word is FRAUD.
Long connection with an affluent Mexican family. Swapped kids, go to each others' weddings, so forth.
Some observations: Went to a really upscale wedding (Fox was invited but couldn't make it). First song from the nine-piece band was....Sixteen Tons. Figured I hadn't drunk enough. So, given the time frame, we went out to visit some other friends. Upon return, there were probably a hundred Mexicans line dancing to Achey Breaky Heart.
It was so upscale that the only people who actually looked Mexican were the help.
One of our so-called relations is in Texas, married to a local. She teaches English to children of immigrants. And standard Spanish. As opposed to immigrant Spanish.
Several of our more-or-less relatives have moved from one city to another due to crime and general danger. Their neighborhoods are walled and guarded.
They are doing well enough financially--very bright, have connections and top-end educations. So they aren't interested, with a couple of exceptions, of coming here. But I suspect they have some arrangements should it be necessary.
I knew a guy who had a gig requiring casual labor and when the scheduled guys didn't show up was authorized to go to the parking lot of the nearest Home Depot. He learned to hire the hispanics, not the blacks. As Sowell says, cultures vary and differences have consequences. It hurts him...he doesn't want to be racist. But he needs the work done and people make the choice as to how to work.
I am not in a position to speak for the hispanic community in this country. But I will say that most people I know respect them.
Mostly this gets at the fallacy that there are monolithic Black, Hispanic, and Asian populations and voters, all of whom can be understood and their behavior predicted by an academic sitting in his office overlooking Harvard Yard and applying Critical Race Theory, never having talked to any of them.
Which is increasingly the approach the Democrats are taking as the woke left comes to dominate their understanding of the world.
In the real world, there are Blacks whose ancestors, or themselves, came here voluntarily, then there are Blacks whose ancestors were slaves (some or all of the b/c it is all mixed up), and their ancestors may or may not have moved North or west at different times, as slaves and freedmen those ancestors may have lived in Maryland or South Carolina or Mississippi or Texas and had quire different experiences; their ancestors may have been field slaves or house slaves which was often a tremendous difference in status within the slave and post-slave community, and on and on.
"Hispanics" may have been the Spanish-speaking while elite here before 1848 (and who chose to stay), or later immigrants came at different times, have been here for a different number of generations, and may have come from different places--various Mexican states each of which is different, various Central and South American and Caribbean countries, and for different reasons. A person of Guatemalan heritage whose parents or grandparents escaped a right-wing dictator in 1958 are NOT the same as a recent person fleeing the Venezuela of Chavez and Maduro.
And the idea of an "Asian" ethnicity is so ludicrous I won't waste keystrokes on it, except to note that arguably India or Indonesia, alone, is more ethno-culturally fractured than is the United States.
And that is only ethnic background, not getting into their present economic and social positions and aspirations. A well-off lawyer or doctor whose parents immigrated from Nigeria in the 1990s may not have political or social attitudes at all like a hairdresser or day laborer descended from Mississippi field slaves, even if their ethnic ancestry otherwise looks similar.
But Critical Race Theory, and the Dem Party in general, treats all those millions of people as if they were only 3 archetypes (Black, Hispanic, Asian), multiplied. That is the problem with theory--it always simplifies, that is the whole point of a theory. But people quickly forget it is only a theory and treat it as reality.
But the world, reality, is incredibly complicated and messy and contradictory.
Trump's approach is/was to treat anyone here legally as an American who wants a decent life, raise a family if that is their wish, a modicum of security, and a lot of opportunity, and they can "pursue happiness" as they wish within the framework the country can establish.
The Democrats' theory is that your race is all there is to know about you, and if you are even just a bit darker skinned than a typical Italian it is impossible for you to succeed unless the Democratic Party puts its thumb on the scale for you.
Pre-Trump, most Republicans' attitude was to ignore the whole thing, basically saying to "people of color" that our agenda is public an you know where to find us, but we are not going to make any special effort to invite you in. Trump, OTOH, made an effort to explain to them why many of them might do better in a broadly inclusive, opportunity-based system, than they will as pawns in a political race war, and ask them to consider that.
I am mildly stunned at the freedom with which they publicly and unabashedly denigrate and insult Black voters.
stevew
Hardly matters. Their target audience is conditioned to think republicans are evil and nothing else matters. Not condescension, nothing.
W did pretty well with Hispanics in 2004. Trump did better this time, which was a little better than McCain did in 2008.
Romney did terrible with Hispanics.
The GOP should reject Romneyism (automation is displacing US workers so start your own business and join the military).
But they won’t.
Like I said on November 4, Biden barely winning was a real loss for the Democrats.
You people did well. The Democrats will have to pull a rabbit warren out of the hat to keep any part of Congress in 2022.
A friend says that by then, Covid will be over and we will be enjoying the roaring twenties part two.
I dont think of Nordic countries, I think of Nazi Germany or Venezuela.
I commented in another thread that Portuguese speakers from Brazil are legally considered to be hispanic under federal law. I do not understand why.
“Hispanic” originally referred not to “Spain” (or not just to Spain) but rather to the entire Iberian peninsula and the inhabitants thereof.
“Spain,” now, properly the nation/kingdom so-called, is very recent on the long historical timescale, only dating back to the personal union (by marriage) of two states — the Medieval kingdoms of Aragon and Castile — in the late 15th century AD.
Calling their merged kingdom “Spain” was simply propaganda from the newly unified and renamed polity attempting to convince folk everywhere that theirs was the totality (or at least the important part) of the whole “Hispanic” (Iberian) peninsula — totally eliding Portugal, also vastly important as part of the peninsula and history.
However, compared with the relatively newfangled and modern term “Spain,” the word “Hispania” is ancient.
For instance, one finds on the famous Antikythera Mechanism of (probably) the late 2nd century BC (!) an inscription made in the mechanism's copper plate referring to certain ancient eclipses occurring in (using the Greek alphabet) ΙΣΠΑΝΙΑ — that is: “Hispania.”
Thus, rightly, all persons biologically or culturally descended from the cultures and states of the entire Iberian — Hispanic — peninsula (not just Spain per se) by rights may be correctly termed Hispanic.
Step 1 in losing the Hispanic vote: Call them Latinx.
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