Criticism and responses here, at Twitter: "Sia faces backlash after casting Maddie Ziegler as an autistic teen in upcoming movie Music." Answers from Sia:Hollywood strikes again with another film where non-disabled actors play disabled roles. Having a neurotypical play an autistic person is offensive enough; rolling this trailer out at the start of #DisabilityHistoryMonth is a kick in the bloody teeth.
— Liam O'Dell (@LiamODellUK) November 19, 2020
No captions, either. https://t.co/VJOnVUv9Mz
I’m so confused. The character is based completely on my neuro atypical friend. He found it too stressful being non verbal, and I made this movie with nothing but love for him and his mother....I’ve never referred to music as disabled. Special abilities is what I’ve always said, and casting someone at her level of functioning was cruel, not kind, so I made the executive decision that we would do our best to lovingly represent the community....I believe this movie is beautiful, Will create more good than harm and if I’m wrong I’ll pay for it for the rest of my life...I had two people on the spectrum advising me at all times.... [T]here are thirteen people on the spectrum in the movie.
If I’m wrong I’ll pay for it for the rest of my life...
Posts
116 comments:
It must suck to need to have cancer to play a cancer patient.
I am Laslo.
Only if these actors are unable to, you know, act.
Laslo for the win right out of the chute. Dang, you're quick on the draw...
It is beyond sad to me that we have sunk this far. Clawing our way back up may be impossible at this point.
Glad there was no apology there. Give it a day or two...
So they really don't want "actors" anymore?
Luckily, most actresses are whores so they can play prostitutes, no problem.
I am Laslo.
I'm still reeling from the shock of learning that NONE of the actors who played Victor Hugo's Quasimodo (Lon Chaney Sr., Charles Laughton, Anthony Quinn, et al) actually were hunchbacked. O the humanity!
I prefer documentaries anyway.
Art was fun while it lasted.
For those with Ectrodactyly there are not nearly enough movies calling out for a character named Lobster Boy.
I am Laslo.
Any movie that takes place in a non-English speaking country must use actors who speak the local language, and all the dialog must be in that language.
I heard Tom Hanks was not a veteran of DDay. How dare he Save Private Ryan, who by the way should also be shamed because Matt Damon is not a DDay vet either! Oh the humanity. These special interest/victims groups should be mocked when they do this, even the ones with members with autism. Make your own damn movie with 100% spectrum actors.
I'm as interested in mainstream hollywood production as I am the corrupt corporate press.
Nadda. No eyeballs or money from me.
But if you do, it's cultural appropriation, so movies can only be made by people
"of that culture".
Laslo for the win right out of the chute.
Agreed! Also agree with his comment at 9:29.
God (if there is a God) save us.
ONN's Autistic Reporter, Michael Falk
"As a dead hiker, I actually find this quite offensive"
"He killed the hikers so he could go to jail."
So a Hollywood actor can only play a leftist narcissist who imagines the world cares what they think on politics? How many roles are there for that?
So, black people can play Alexander Hamilton and Thomas Jefferson, but Dustin Hoffman can't play somebody with autism?
I guess only actual pilots should be allowed to star in Top Gun, too.
I guess we're not going to see Matt Damon starring as Dr. Martin Luther King anytime soon...
Love Sia's music. My daughter and I wait every year for the reasonable moment when we can start playing her Christmas album.
I never heard of this critic. Why are his teeth bloody? What does his problem with hygiene or being bullied have to do with the movie?
Doesn't this kind of turn every movie into a documentary ?
Gender dysphoria is a symptom of autism.
The next production of the Elephant Man should be interesting.
"Sometimes I think my head is so big because it is so full of dreams."
Will they use real dead people to play the voters in the movie about Biden defeating Hitler?
"Having a neurotypical play an autistic person is offensive enough;"
I'm bleeding from my eyes right now. Even my Mac won't accept neurotypical as a word. I'm sure it will within the week.
This is almost as offensive as having a liberal hack from Hollywood write the script for, and then find another liberal hack from Hollywood to act as leads in movies about Conservatives or Republicans such as Ronald Regan, Bush, Churchill, etc. Or any random progressive portrayal of any conservative person in any random movie.
It's not enough that this racist, fascist rock (that proabley voted for Trump!) be removed - ot must be destroyed - reduced to sand and then flown out to sea and dumped. BlAAck(!) student can be given mallets and chisels to do the deed. We must also seek out ALL N***erhead rocks wherever they may be skulking about and destroy them.
Disability History Month? Can you hear me laughing all the way from Madison, WI?
How about when anybody plays a ghost or a historical figure, we hire the actors and then kill them all.
Living people have no right portraying dead people. It's Ghost-ist.
JFC, we've lost it as a nation.
I welcome our Chinese overlords.
Where does this guy (who bills himself as a deaf journalist) get off thinking he can speak for all disabled people?
Actually, all acting is a form of identity appropriation, so down with Hollywood and theater.
I can't wait to see the casting call for the documentary about the removal of Chamberlin Rock. There has to be at least a dozen roles that should be played by the mentally disabled.
I guess only actual pilots should be allowed to star in Top Gun, too.
My former next door neighbor was a retired F-14 front-seater who could have acted Tom Cruise under the table.
Twitter is a kakistocracy. Hollywood too.
“ My former next door neighbor was a retired F-14 front-seater who could have acted Tom Cruise under the table.”
Meh. Tom Cruise fits under most tables already.
ACTORS GET PAID TO PRETEND THEY ARE SOMEONE ELSE.
I find it increasingly likely that we live in a simulation and are currently subject to some kind of stress test from the development team that cycles around every 90 years or so. Humans are complex and you never know what sort of behavior will manifest under stress.
Comedy, no matter how dark, has been our refuge as a species. It requires a heart of stone to not laugh at this. Thanks, Laslo.
Ann, have you heard about the production of "Hedwig and the Angry Inch?"
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/culture/2020/nov/18/its-not-about-cancel-culture-hedwig-and-the-angry-inch-postponed-after-trans-led-petition
The creators of the show Hedwig and the Angry Inch have weighed in to a casting row that led to the producers of an upcoming Australian production pulling the show from January’s Sydney festival.
In a statement on Wednesday, John Cameron Mitchell and Stephen Task said they did not believe the title role was a trans character, and the role should be “open to anyone who can tackle it and, more importantly, anyone who needs it.”
The January festival announced the postponement of rock musical and seminal queer show on Tuesday, following a flood of complaints over the casting of a cis male as Hedwig.
Mitchell being, of course the actual CREATOR of the piece.
Honest to god. Who gives a fuck. Except maybe that racist Howard.
"My dear boy, that's why it's called acting." - Laurence Olivier to Dustin Hoffman (When he saw Dustin struggling so hard with his "method" acting.)
This empowerment business has gone too far. They've turned into bullies.
I am reminded of the critic (NYTs IIRC) that complained that a remake of Murder on the Orient express included no actual Asians.
I'm sure that if my child were autistic THIS would be the very tippy-top concern for making sure he lived as full a life as possible.
@Amy Welborn
Thanks. I've seen the movie, but didn't know about this new controversy.
How do we know Maddie Ziegler isn't on the spectrum herself? I have never heard of her before and don't know anything about her, but I guess she's who we're talking about.
I wanted to type "How do we know Kate Hudson isn't on the spectrum herself?" How do we? Goldie Hawn seemed quite vague and distant and distracted, if that's what being on the spectrum means, and Kate doesn't look like much of an improvement.
When they start complaining, just go sit real close to them. They'll shut down.
What's her name, who played the aspergers' detective in The Bridge, said she learned a lot from the role. Aspergers' stuff is hard to do.
Sofia Helin
In Netflix's "Troy: Fall of a City," Achilles was played by a black actor. What a travesty. Traditionally, Achilles was a blond-haired Mycenaean/Indo-European Greek. I watched literally about 5 minutes before turning it off in disgust.
Maybe I would be more accepting of a black man playing Achilles if a blond-haired Swede was cast as Shaka Zulu in a miniseries about that historical figure.
But I doubt it.
There is a "Disability History Month"? Are we having to double up on recognition months yet? Should we scale them back to a week rather than a full month? Should we retire some?
So by this lame standard should an actor who is shot in a scene be actually shot? Should she actually die? Otherwise xhe is appropriating from actual dead actors. Maybe that's a reach. I don't know.
"Having a neurotypical play an autistic person is offensive enough;"
Actually just having the term "neurotypical" is offensive enough.
"There is a "Disability History Month"? Are we having to double up on recognition months yet? Should we scale them back to a week rather than a full month? Should we retire some?"
No. The aggrieved will demand a new calendar.
absolutely!
Only deaf people should be allowed to play deaf people
Only mute people should be allowed to play mute people
Only Intellectually Challenged people (retards!) should be allowed to play retards
the fact that this will make it IMPOSSIBLE to have those characters in movies just means that we will have to STOP having those characters in movies
It's like Confederate soldiers... We'll just have to pretend they NEVER existed
actinggggggggggggg
I have read that Russell Crowe can't do simple math.
Just close it down. Nothing but documentaries.
That Tom Cruise actually has legs, and isn't even in a secret government organization unless you count Scientology.
As someone who is "on the spectrum", I would like to point out that the idea that the standard for representation being the fuzzy arbitrary line of the DSM-5 (mostly written by neutortypicals), as adjudicated by a single (usually neurotypical) psychologist, is ridiculous.
Since it's an autism spectrum, it makes just as much sense, in the name of representativeness, to either demand every actor match the exact specific autistic symptoms of the character, or write it all off by noting that the neurotypical can quite fairly be characterized as simply being on an extended version of the spectrum, and thus everyone's qualified to act the role of even the most severely autistic.
“ My former next door neighbor was a retired F-14 front-seater who could have acted Tom Cruise under the table.”
"Meh. Tom Cruise fits under most tables already."
Thanks Ken B for my laugh of the day.
Who gets to play Andrew Cuomo in the upcoming COVID epic since Donald Harvey died 3 years ago?
serious question
are we still going to be able to have brunettes with small chests play big boobed blondes?
(i mean, are wigs and dyes and pushup bras and silicon still allowed?)
More Serious Question
will we still have movies, where intelligent people are played by brain dead actors?
Even MORE Serious Question
will we still have movies, where non-leftists will be played by leftists?
Even MORE MORE Serious Question
Why DO they call it ACTING?
And who gets to play Chuck in the Althouse biopic? Can you even get a sub 75 IQ person to show up on time for the shoots?
Actually just having the term "neurotypical" is offensive enough.
Oh, no, there are specific terms for "normal" in various contexts, how horribly offensive! Are you grossly offended by the term "heterosexual", too?
Bilwick said...
I'm still reeling from the shock of learning that NONE of the actors who played Victor Hugo's Quasimodo (Lon Chaney Sr., Charles Laughton, Anthony Quinn, et al) actually were hunchbacked. O the humanity!
*********************
And the NERVE of Marty Feldman not to give up his "Young Frankenstein"
role to a deserving real-life Quasimodo!!
Also, JUST THINK of the injustice of Linda Hunt playing a Chinese MAN in "The Year of Living Dangerously", and getting an Oscar for it. I'm shocked, SHOCKED I tell ya!
(and why is "Oscar" named after a man, anyway...?)
Word has it that real Zombies are mightily pissed off seeing all those live people staggering around on "The Walking Dead".
They plan to rise up en masse. Just you wait.
Hey, if the dead can vote, they can also act.
Therefore you must be an axe murderer in order to play one in a movie?
And what of slavery? Must one have been a slaveholder to play one and, if so, where are they going to find actors to play this role?
Of course, these standards are being applied to written works of fiction as well: if you're not indigenous you can't create indigenous characters in your work, etc.
So where, exactly, does this policing of private imagination end? Will job applicants be asked if they've ever imagined themselves in a different time or place, or as a character who does not share certain features classified lately as "identity"? And when these fail, will there then be computer-based exams that search for implicit guilt?
Do these Puritans even understand what a dystopia they are creating with this policing of creative imagination?
That's like demanding only actual space aliens can play space alien parts. They are called actors for a reason. Besides, it seems everyone is now on the autism spectrum, it's de rigueur to be autistic.
Liam O'Dell casts himself as someone who cares when he's just trying to virtue signal as how woke he is. Trying to have an autistic person act can be an act of cruelty.
Let all who want Chamberlin Rock removed get out their chisels and hammers. Have at it.
How are anymore zombie movies going to be made without real life zombies. Can zombies take direction without eating the directors?
Even if a director was able to find a GOOD actor with autism to play this role, you know that would not be the end of the criticism. Obviously, a person with profound autism would be unable to deal with the acting, let alone the stress, so the actor would have to be only mildly autistic.
So, the minute after the mildly-autistic actor's role was announced, the activists would:
a) inquire as to whether the actor was really talented
b) laud the director for casting an actor on "the spectrum", or
c) immediately start shaking with rage and campaign to have the movie and the director cancelled because it's a terrible violence to cast a mildly autistic person instead of one with profound autism.
Hmmmm....
It's impossible to be cynical anymore.
I think you're asking the wrong question here. To me the question is whether people with disabilities are getting fair opportunities to be actors? The fact that Peter Dinklage and Marlee Matlin (if I dig deep) are the only actors with disabilities who I can name off the top of my head tells me that they're probably not.
Or that people with disabilities are shitty actors. Maybe that's it...
All I know is that realistic depictions of many conditions are boring, boring, boring. Back in the day the inestimable Andre Braugher won an Emmy the year his character had a stroke on "Homicide: Life in the Streets." His acting was that good and that realistic. And I could barely watch, it was so tedious. It was not entertaining and it was not educational. I do not need real props and real backgrounds to understand a tale, and I bet you don't either.
Must Hollywood cast an actor with autism to play a character with autism?
Generally yes. But these days a black person can play any role.
It's like a casting Get Out of Jail Free card.
If you say otherwise you are RACIST!
Or that people with disabilities are shitty actors. Maybe that's it...
************
I can think of quite a few with Tourrette's Syndrome, shitty and otherwise.
The new Star Trek series has been postponed indefinately. All of the actors who auditioned for the Vulcan and Klingon roles are earthlings.
You probably didn't realize it, but Jack Nicholson really was lobotomized.
"The new Star Trek series has been postponed indefinately. All of the actors who auditioned for the Vulcan and Klingon roles are earthlings."
It was already postponed because the show's writers aren't really writers.
Twitter says there's an autism community.
So this is what we are doing now to people who have worked hard and are finally achieving their dreams?
A scientist who lands a rocket wears the wrong shirt. A female singer makes a movie with a female lead. Yay for them! But no, not these days. These days we must tear them down. But note to people who do this: it will not make you feel better, and it doesn't make you a good person.
MayBee:
"A scientist who lands a rocket wears the wrong shirt."
Only those who have successfully landed a spacecraft on a comet are allowed to criticize Dr. Taylor's shirt.
(Or am I doing it wrong?)
It was probably our host who called my attention to this - I feel like I get all wonderful Kenan Thompson skits through Althouse - but the casting controversies remind me of Can I Play That?, in which Idris Elba's bafflement just gets funnier, the dumber we get about all this.
We get it, y'all would be ok with it if they cast Denzel Washington as Jesus. Ip think it's wonderful that you're so open minded.
Professor Althouse, if you like documentaries, I highly recommend Stumped, the short film about rock climber, Maureen Beck. It's as near to perfect as any depiction of disability I've seen, and it deals with the still very prevalent thinking that inhibits people with disabilities from reaching their potential in rock climbing, Hollywood, and throughout our society.
eglegged Picador said...
We get it, y'all would be ok with it if they cast Denzel Washington as Jesus. Ip think it's wonderful that you're so open minded.
Professor Althouse, if you like documentaries, I highly recommend Stumped, the short film about rock climber, Maureen Beck. It's as near to perfect as any depiction of disability I've seen, and it deals with the still very prevalent thinking that inhibits people with disabilities from reaching their potential in rock climbing, Hollywood, and throughout our society.
***********
That strikes me as a....lame...argument. Just how many disabled people have been shown in documentaries overcoming their real-life disabilities. What "prevalent" thinking, by whom, is holding them back? Why are there "Special Olympics" if that thinking is so prevalent?
Back to the original point: It's not a question of whether a disabled person should play a disabled person in a movie or play, it's a question whether that person can also ACT.
There's a helluva difference. Dinklage can obviously act. Daniel Day-Lewis , a very fine actor, did a great job as a person with cerebral palsy who overcomes his disabilities in "My Left Foot". How many people with cerebral palsy do you think are out there who could portray such a struggle? It's definitely not a case of "all you have to do is act naturally".
"A scientist who lands a rocket wears the wrong shirt."
This is Ground Control to Major Tom, you've really made the grade
And the papers want to know whose shirts you wear
Now it's time to leave the capsule if you dare. - Space Oddity - David Bowie.
That man really had a handle on the future.
Oh yeah, another pop song that really captured the future:
I’m just a soul whose intentions are good
Oh Lord, please don’t let me be misunderstood.
The "autism community" is quite chock full of phony's and narcissists using their "on the spectrum" status to bully other people into compliance with their Social Justice bullshit demands about autism. The world must bend to their will.
Their use of the word "Neurotypical" as a sneer is simply the same SJW bigotry of categorizing their enemies, like "Whiteness" used by SJW racists and "Cis-Het" used by the trans sexists.
Hey, autistic SJW clowns, why don't you look up "acting" and learn what that word means. While you're at it, look up "treating people as you'd like to be treated" since it is obvious that your autistic inability to pick up on social cues has led you to being a pack of obnoxious douche-bags and bullies.
bobby said...
When they start complaining, just go sit real close to them. They'll shut down.
11/21/20, 11:04 AM
LOL!
Sneeze, and they'll leave
Do you have to be a real king to play King Lear?
Do you have to be a murderer to play a murderer?
Do you have to be a Nazi to play a Nazi? Who can play Hitler?
Was Al Pacino a real Mafia don?
How could Marlon Brando play a Roman aristocrat, a motorcycle gang leader, and a Mafia don? Which was he?
Ditto, to write a book on any of those subjects.
This is all so idiotic. It is the death of art, it is Philistinism at a level that I doubt the real Philistines ever conceived.
So by this lame standard should an actor who is shot in a scene be actually shot?
Looking at it that way, maybe their idea has merit.
Stack dead actors
Stacked to the rafters
Line up the bastards
All I want is the truth
"actually were hunchbacked. O the humanity!”
Or Richard III! And speaking of Shakespeare’s calumny, look at what he did to Macbeth, who was also a historical figure who didn’t do any of the stuff in the play, that we know of anyway. I wonder how many shekels the Bard collected from the Tudors for that hatchet job.
Think of all the live actors playing corpses. Think of all the unrepresented zombies. Won't someone please think of the zombies!
I'm so old I remember when there was concern about gay actors being able to credibly play straight parts.
I can hardly wait until Hollywood makes a movie about Jeffrey Dahmer.
Blogger tim in vermont said...
Oh yeah, another pop song that really captured the future: In the Year 2525.
"here was concern about gay actors being able to credibly play straight parts.”
You mean like Rock Hudson?
If you want see where these kinds of attacks come from, do a search on “disinformation reporters” and you will see a Stasi style network of people looking for thought crimes and doxxing tools for narrative dissidents. I got that from a great Glenn Greenwald piece on substack.
https://greenwald.substack.com/p/the-new-ruling-coalition-opposition
Well worth a read. Basically the ruling class is using Chomsky’s Manufacturing Consent as a how to. Ever see a movie where the ChiComs are a villain? Why not? Dianne Feinstein’s driver turned out to be a Chinese spy, but they let him go because he said he "never really heard anything.”
The reason the Russians are the villains is because, other than their nukes, they are kind of powerless. Look at this job advert for a reporter to cover Russia for the New York Times:
Vladimir Putin’s Russia remains one of the biggest stories in the world.
It sends out hit squads armed with nerve agents against its enemies, most recently the opposition leader Aleksei Navalny. It has its cyber agents sow chaos and disharmony in the West to tarnish its democratic systems, while promoting its faux version of democracy. It has deployed private military contractors around the globe to secretly spread its influence. At home, its hospitals are filling up fast with Covid patients as its president hides out in his villa.
If that sounds like a place you want to cover, then we have good news: We will have an opening for a new correspondent as Andy Higgins takes over as our next Eastern Europe Bureau Chief early next year.
I am sure they are giving American readers the straight dope on what is going on there. This is why I think it is immoral to pay them money. They handle China with kid gloves and ratchet up tension with Russia.
"I'm so old I remember when there was concern about gay actors being able to credibly play straight parts."
Sure...but once you know, it's hard to see anything else.
Remember when Ellen! started acting pre-lesbian declaration (as if it wasn't obvious)? They put her in a romantic comedy with a man...
What a dud...zero chemistry. Same with watching old Rock Hudson movies. His chemistry was good because he was a good actor, but the movies aren't the same as they were when new.
Now try being a straight actor playing a gay character. Good fucking luck with that.
“How I Met Your Mother” was a show with a gay actor struggling to appear straight and it was never convincing. I remember thinking it long before that actor came out. He was supposed to be some kind of womanizer, Joey from “Friends" was a convincing womanizer and all he had to do was play himself.
Rock Hudson was fine, but I do remember one movie where Doris Day seemed like she was really flirting with Tony Randal and almost ignoring her husband hunk Rock Hudson and it wasn’t really part of the plot. Beautiful women have the best gaydar because they are used to getting checked out by every straight guy they meet.
"They put her in a romantic comedy with a man...”
Her girlfriend Ann Hesche on the other hand made a great one with Harrison Ford.
"Her girlfriend Ann Hesche on the other hand made a great one with Harrison Ford."
She's actually an actress, which probably helps...
She also claims (vehemently) that she is bisexual...which would definitely help.
She is also known to be one of the biggest nut-jobs in Hollywood.
"She is also known to be one of the biggest nut-jobs in Hollywood.”
She is so pretty to look at, I just don’t care. It’s not like I have a shot with her anyway.
This is why I think it is immoral to pay them money. They handle China with kid gloves and ratchet up tension with Russia.
The reason the chinese are not portrayed in a bad light is because China wont allow it. China is a huge market for hollywood. Hollywood bends to the will of China. That's the how China gets its way
she was really flirting with Tony Randall
As if he were totally straight, too.
Hollywood strikes again with another film where non-disabled actors play disabled roles. Having a neurotypical play an autistic person is offensive enough; rolling this trailer out at the start of #DisabilityHistoryMonth is a kick in the bloody teeth.
One word: Hamilton.
Who plays serial killers?
If anyone could be bored and/or demented enough to make a movie about...me!...I would hope that they would cast some really good actor instead of a somewhat shy late/middle age guy who couldn’t act his way out of a paper bag. Brad Pitt, Dennis Quaid, Liam Neeson. I’m not picky!
Ken B said...
Who plays serial killers?
*********************
A meme going around shows Jeffrey Dahmer saying, "No one's going to tell me how many people I can have for Thanksgiving dinner."
heh
Is Hollywood still making movies? Asking fo a friend.
Dustin Hoffman played a character with autism (Rain Man). There is no way the autistic person he based his character on (see "the real rain man" on youtube) could follow directions and do the acting. Too many people with impossible demands out there.
This is gonna be a problem for that commenter here who's been trying to get his script for Frankenstein Part 2 made into a movie.
So, I guess that means only stupid, ignorant, hypocritical actors can portray Democrat politicians.
As to documentaries, shouldn't only documents be allowed to appear?
If you don't make movies about other cultures, you're a bigot who suppresses their voices
If you do you're a cultural appropriator
Fuck them. Fuck all of them
Sia goes on the list of artists who are not going to go along with it. Good for her. In the old parlor game, I guess you could say she wouldn't go nazi.
Yep, having a non-autistic person play an autistic person in a fil is exactly like having someone kick your teeth.
'Aright, Rocko, if you won't pay up, I'm going to give you a choice between a kick in the teeth and knowing that a non-disabled actor played a disabled character in a film. It's up to you, take your time."
Shut up and watch the movie.
****************
wholelottasplainin' said...
eglegged Picador said...
We get it, y'all would be ok with it if they cast Denzel Washington as Jesus. Ip think it's wonderful that you're so open minded.
Professor Althouse, if you like documentaries, I highly recommend Stumped, the short film about rock climber, Maureen Beck. It's as near to perfect as any depiction of disability I've seen, and it deals with the still very prevalent thinking that inhibits people with disabilities from reaching their potential in rock climbing, Hollywood, and throughout our society.
***********
That strikes me as a....lame...argument. Just how many disabled people have been shown in documentaries overcoming their real-life disabilities. What "prevalent" thinking, by whom, is holding them back? Why are there "Special Olympics" if that thinking is so prevalent?
If Barry Levinson had been compelled to cast a person as severely disabled as Raymond Babbitt was portrayed in the working script, would the film even be possible? Almost certainly not.
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