I checked to see whether that screen shot is a real tweet by Ngo. It is: here. Something is very wrong."Late porn star"
— Jesse Singal (@jessesingal) October 15, 2020
normal stuff! pic.twitter.com/umZBhGm3jY
१५ ऑक्टोबर, २०२०
"Late porn star"? I don't get Andy Ngo.
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Apparently he had done some porn in the past. People on twitter are using this to characterize him after google chose to call him a hip hop artist
Could be he learned from Trump how to get attention.
People have been saying the same on this blog for a while. Its the new Republican talking point about George Floyd.
The only way they can salve their conscience is to personally attack the dead and pretend that he deserved to die.
That is, if they have a conscience. Many here clearly lack one.
You must watch Propaganda news. George Floyd was a porn star...He filmed Porno movies. It was known to a lot of us. https://mtonews.com/george-floyd-was-adult-film-star-explicit-movies-leak-online-graphic
“Died in police custody in May & had a fatal level of fentanyl in his blood” is about the most cruelly neutral description I’ve seen. Ngo didn’t say “OD’d” or “more than three times a lethal level”; but didn’t say “killed by police” or “murdered by police” either.
@Althouse, there is a story floating around on the Internet that to make ends meet during a tough time in his life George Floyd acted in an amateur porn vIdeo. I have no idea whether the story is true, and Andy Ngo damages his otherwise fine reputation as an investigative reporter by alluding to it — even if true, the story is both tasteless and irrelevant.
Video of Biden rushing back to his basement yesterday.
http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/index.php/2020/10/14/and-how-was-your-day-9/
Immediately after, he put a “lid” on press availability.
Really though, that’s a pretty Canadian video. I like that the guy is skating towards the inferno to help out.
Wrong thread, soooorry.
Seems to be true, there are several videos out there. Look for yourselves.
Something is very wrong.
Because it says "star", should have said "actor"?
" Its the new Republican talking point about George Floyd."
Really? Well, count on Republicans to make themselves disgusting to ordinary people.
You're not a "star" just because you do porn.
The problem is the police. It matters whether a person who died at the hands of police resisted arrest and was violent during the incident, but not anything else about their life.
"People have been saying the same on this blog for a while. Its the new Republican talking point about George Floyd."
It came out several months ago, and it was not often brought up, because I think everyone thought it was the least of his problems.
Focusing on the police, it may ultimately turn out that what the police did isn't what killed him, but if he was dying of a drug overdose, there is still a problem of the police continuing to restrain him after he was unconscious. It is brutal to treat a dying person that way, even if you are not killing him.
Note: I have never watched the George Floyd video. I've only read about it. I don't believe it is right to watch a person die. It doesn't comport with my moral principles to be a spectator.
So pointing out that GF appeard in porn videos will make the GOP *disgusting* ?
How so?
It's very simple. Punch George Floyd into Google and it displays a picture and "American Hip Hop Artist" Considering he had a bigger career in the film industry it would seem that the other title is at least as applicable if not more than the one Google credits him with.
If you find Andy's reference absurd/offensive the it is doing its job of calling attention to Google's absurdity.
As far as the law is concerned it should not matter what the deceased did in his life. Nor should it matter whether he died while cameras were filming.
But this is not a legal matter. This is a socio-cultural event. In that case it really does matter who's bloody shirt one is waving. A person of perceived value matters more, such as a pretty woman or a pregnant woman or a child or all these promising athletes or scholars that die in drive-by shootings. That's why the press usually mentions those things.
George Floyd had 3 funerals.
He once robbed a Latina at gunpoint.
George Floyd has had streets named after him.
He had a background as a porn actor. (Does that appease your overreaction to the perfectly normal usage “porn star”?)
George Floyd is the poster child for police brutality and killings of innocent black men.
George Floyd had multiple illegal drugs in his system, including FATAL dose of fentanyl.
Seems eminently fair that the first story is refuted by the factual second story,
Really? Well, count on Republicans to make themselves disgusting to ordinary people.
Well, count on your beloved Democrats to stand by applauding while cities burn and people are assaulted. Our worst elements may be icky to you, but your worst elements approve of violence.
Wendybar 'known to a lot of us'. Doubling down on this same smear and purporting to be a porn enthusiast.
Ann, this exaggeration about the 'porn STAR' has been appearing in the contents here for a while.
Andy Ngo just got caught openly pushing talking points this time. He hid it better in the past.
We are so trained to want to speech crime everyone.
That is what is sad.
Ann Althouse said...
" Its the new Republican talking point about George Floyd."
Really? Well, count on Republicans to make themselves disgusting to ordinary people.
10/15/20, 6:37 AM
You must have missed the Democrats making themselves look disgusting to ordinary people during the confirmation hearings. (amongst thousands of other things in the past 5 years too)
"It is brutal to treat a dying person that way, even if you are not killing him."
"I don't believe it is right to watch a person die."
I understand the sentiment, but one has to do the proper thing as an analyst, which is to take ones feelings out back and shoot them.
Response to Floyd's being characterized as a hip hop artist? Both are technically true and equally misleading as a summary of the man's life.
So in other words, you weren't there, you really don't have any business at this point defending Floyd or blaming the police.
Who said he “deserved to die”?
Ain’t sayin it didn’t happen, but I’d really like to see the quotes. In context.
Mark said...People have been saying the same on this blog for a while. Its the new Republican talking point about George Floyd.
I'm a daily reader of this blog and this is the first time I've heard of his porn work. That doesn't mean no one said it as it's impossible to read every word of every comment, but it's not something "people have been saying" on this blog.
You posted an excerpt the other day that referred to Floyd as a “hip hop artist” and others here mentioned Floyd’s porn “career” too. Both descriptions seem equally dubious. But I have so little curiosity about Floyd and am in fact sick of hearing about him so won’t dig deeper. Who cares?
We live in an ugly time. They're not taking prisoners this year.
We should spend more time and effort thinking about how it got that way. I watched most of it take place over my lifetime, and was never arsed to do much about it. The sunk cost of indifference is insufficiently high to hold my commitment in 2020. Better late than never.
You're missing the point Ann. Andy is alluding to the fact that the #1 autocomplete option in the Google search box, after typing "Geor", was "George Floyd - American Hip Hop Artist."
Try it yourself before casting more stones.
Ann Althouse said...
" Its the new Republican talking point about George Floyd."
Really? Well, count on Republicans to make themselves disgusting to ordinary people.
No, not really. Republicans don't have talking points about George Floyd. You need to stop getting your "facts" about Republicans from lefties in your comment section. Especially when his previous sentence is obviously false and smears your blog.
Why is it that anyone who performed in a porn movie is automatically called a porn star?
It's pushback against the beatification of George Floyd as a Martyr.
That worship is one of the most perniciously racist things going on in our country right now -- presenting criminals who are killed by police as role models for people of color.
Well, count on Republicans to make themselves disgusting to ordinary people
Republicans are the normal ones...
The problem is the police. It matters whether a person who died at the hands of police resisted arrest and was violent during the incident, but not anything else about their life.
You are 100% right of course...if this were a matter of criminal justice. It's not. The law has nothing to do with George Floyd. The only thing important is political gamesmanship. It's sad, but with Democrats running the narrative machine, all facts get pushed aside to elicit emotional responses.
The hearings for the nomination of a Supreme Court Justice, should be limited to the candidates judicial history, and legal scholarship. But no. Democrats have poster with pictures of people and how they love ObamaCare. Ignoring the FACT, that its the legislature that makes govt sponsored health care a thing. A Supreme Court Justice has no power in that arena. If Democrats want to talk about ObamaCare, do it in the legislative process.
So you are right about getting off message. But you are ignoring the reality of the the last 4 decades.
And Andy Ngo has lots to be bitter about.
He has been treated like garbage.
Forgive Andy Ngo.
Floyd was a porn star. porn and star are nothing new. how else do you say someone made porn flicks?
porn star is the oldest way to say that.
It is a witty response to "late hip hop star." No more, no less. Watch that trick gag reflex.
Mark - nobody is happy George Floyd died. There is footage of George saying "he can't breathe" before he was on the ground. the combination of fentynol and the police restraining him probably killed him. Now we have 2 billion in property damage by antifa rioters, and a portion of that damage is black businesses.
Somebody, somewhere is probably offended that it will be seen as an insult to be called a former porn star, or that porn star is somehow inferior to hip hop artist.
I mean, anybody can be an artist, but being a star is a high ranking in show business.
Andy's tweet was a little over the top. Does that negate his hundreds of tweets reporting on actual Antifa violence? The problem is NOT the police, but drug-addicted career criminals who resist arrest. The police did nothing wrong according the the Minneapolis Police department training. Floyd had trouble breathing BEFORE the knee was placed on him to restrain him. "Moral principles" Yeahrite. If you watched ALL the videos of the incident, you might escape from your flawed perception of the incident
You are not getting it. Andy is deliberately mocking the absurd St. George behavior. He's not claiming he deserved to die because he was in some porn thing; he's saying 'you people getting off on pretending he walked on water should stop doing that.'
These people celebrating his life disgust me. What a bunch of low IQ, easily led, can't see beyond the nose on the end of their faces, masturbatory idiots.
How many people die in undignified, undeserved situations all the time? When's the last time anyone cared about children who die at the hands of their parents? Anyone who claims to give one fat shit about St. George who can't even tell you the name of some little child who was beaten to death by his mother's dirtbag boyfriend needs to eat a pallet of dicks.
More seriously, I'm with Althouse's 6:43 comment: I did see the video and it was obvious to me, not a trained medical person, that Floyd was having some kind of episode (medical or drug-induced). Maybe he could have been saved with a timely dose of Narcan.
Shouldn’t have died like that... shouldn’t have been a career criminal... shouldn’t have been an habitual hard drug user...
A life shortened by “shouldn’t haves”. Porn star? Don’t know, don’t care.
Althouse: I don't look at evidence myself, I only go by how others have described it.
The biggest problem for me was how callous the actions of Officer Chauvin appeared. Floyd appeared to have a medical emergency. They had called for EMT assistance. In my few observations, the cops in Chicago turn immediately to assistance if someone they are arresting collapses. I suppose it is quite different if the suspect has been shooting at them, and some cops can be brutal, but generally they are quite compassionate.
He's trying to get the signal out through all the noise.
Althouse received the signal but is confused by the noise.
Democraticals want to be fooled.
Fools.
You're not a "star" just because you do porn.
Of course not. To be a really big star you need to die of a drug overdose while being arrested. But to be fair he really wanted to be Mother Teresa. Good man that one.
Ann Althouse said...
...there is still a problem of the police continuing to restrain him after he was unconscious. It is brutal to treat a dying person that way, even if you are not killing him.
Note: I have never watched the George Floyd video. I've only read about it. I don't believe it is right to watch a person die. It doesn't comport with my moral principles to be a spectator.
I agree with this entirely. I did finally watch a minute or two of the cop kneeling on his neck. I couldn't get past his demeanor, hands in his pockets, empty and souless expression that told me he had been a cop too long, and lost his humanity.
I am disappointed to find our host to be way over the llne here in “concern” for Floyd’s reputation. He was no saint, he had a sordid past and the Left trying to pretend he was a great guy and the victim of racism is just a flat out lie. The truth hurts.
As to the police “ restraining” him - he was clearly in the throes of a drug overdose - his “ friends” in the car when the police arrived are heard on body cam video saying he’s out of it. The police called EMS after Floyd had a fit and injured himself on the door of the police car. And let’s remember the 9 times he uttered “ I can’t breath” before he was restrained BY THE TECHNIQUE SHOWN IN THE MINN POLICE TRAINING MANUAL FOR PEOPLE IN DRUG TREMORS TO PREVENT THEM CHOKING ON VOMIT.
Of course the fenathyl levels in Floyd and the little fact his lungs were full of his own drug induced fluid ( weighing over twice normal weight) are of no concern - after all Keith X didn’t even wait for the toxicology report to come back before charging murder. Monetizing black deaths when in the custody of police is the game here.
Prof. A: Agree that past conduct should not bear on the final (sad) scene unless probative of his behavior, helping to explain his conduct. Thus: if he was chronically hooked on fentanyl, his history would be relevant. But performing in a movie? Nah.
But as for his final performance in the hands of the police, I think the fentanyl OD was the key feature. On autopsy his lungs weighed 3x normal: suffused with fluid as is apparently typical of fentanyl OD. He drowned in his own fluids. Cops apparently tried, belatedly and inadequately, to get him the medical attention he needed. It is not clear to me if he could have survived *if they had never touched him.*. He was going into respiratory distress when they first approached him.
But none of that matters now. The beatification of Saint George is an accomplished fact, secured by the burning of cities and the death of civic trust.
Really? Well, count on Republicans to make themselves disgusting to ordinary people.
Sigh. OK, I'll play. "You misspelled Democrats, Althouse! Har!"
Seriously, these attempts to troll your own blog are really getting tiresome, Ann...
They ought to embalm George and display his mummy in front of the Portland Kremlin. That will teach Ngo.
When the mainstream media confers secular sainthood on a low-life like George Floyd, and brooks no opposition to their absurd narrative, it sometimes takes a sledge hammer to break through that propaganda. Andy Ngo is using the sledge hammer to rectify the lying narrative of the mainstream media.
A sledge hammer would not be necessary if we had a media even slightly concerned with truth and objectivity. But we don't have such a media these days. So, sledge hammers.
The canonization of people killed at the hands of police is part of a dangerous propaganda effort targeting not just the police, but the very order of our societies. It may seem ghoulish to pick away at a dead man's reputation, but this is information warfare. It's ugly, but let's not pretend it's some kind of one-sided disgustingness. It is the establishment, the Dems, who have most abused Floyd and the other people who've died at the hands of law enforcement. If Andy Ngo is disgusting, well, it's disgusting all the way down.
they have burning down 2 billion dollars of damages, killing hundreds of cops, ostensibly because of him,
I've only read about it.
A transcript of the incident was released. You might be surprised.
His entire life is relevant to how he died. If he had been killed in an altercation with another drug dealer, there would be no reluctance to list his prior felonies and the sorted underbelly of his miserable life.
When you live life as an outlaw, there is a high likelihood that you will die at the hands of a bigger badder outlaw, or at the hands of the police. The outlaw part matters.
Had Floyd woke up that morning and tried to live his best life for himself and his family, he would be alive and well today. Instead he woke up, took a lethal dose of fentanyl, drove a 5500lb battlewagon to a store where he stole $20 using a counterfeit bill. It's way more complicated than "died in the custody of the police."
“Note: I have never watched the George Floyd video. I've only read about it. I don't believe it is right to watch a person die. It doesn't comport with my moral principles to be a spectator.”
While I understand your sentiment it should be pointed out that George Floyd didn’t “die” in that video. He died later on.
You're not a "star" just because you do porn.
Star can and does mean principal actor. There does not have to be an association between participation in pornography and fame or recognition because of it for the use of the word to be valid.
" Its the new Republican talking point about George Floyd."
Really? Well, count on Republicans to make themselves disgusting to ordinary people.
So you're fine with attempting to destroy the reputation of an upstanding man who mentors women, or a young man visiting our nation's capital, but a career criminal resisting arrest while under the influence of drugs is a step too far?
You really don't get the point, even though you're pretty good at taking apart humor?
Message: Floyd is not a hero. He was a petty criminal who got caught, resisted arrest, and died, likely of the effects of drugs. It led to riots and racial division. And, the guy did some porn. The joke is the absurdity of it all.
Andy Ngo goes where highly paid, influential journalists do not. Shows what media corporations will not. He provides a valuable service that few will.
You're not a "star" just because you do porn.
1) You're not a hip hop artist if you yell a couple of rhymes over a drum machine, but the media called him a hip hop artist anyway.
2) All porn actors are called "stars" because it would be inaccurate to label them "actors".
The problem is the police. It matters whether a person who died at the hands of police resisted arrest and was violent during the incident, but not anything else about their life.
Why?
That's like saying that the only thing that matters about a Supreme Court nominee are their qualifications to be a Justice, and you clearly don't believe that.
ALL our local police officers are issued Narcan and trained to administer Narcan to overdoses.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naloxone
If the Minneapolis aren't so equipped and trained, it is a failure in leadership.
Ann Althouse said...
" Its the new Republican talking point about George Floyd."
Really? Well, count on Republicans to make themselves disgusting to ordinary people.
It seems calling something a "Republican talking point" is a way to get you to dismiss something and not examine it yourself. Please note your response is based on one comment on your forum. I am continually amazed at people who think just ONE party is dishonest, corrupt, bought, and so back people who should never been on the ballot.
As for "Porn Star Floyd", it was referenced a couple times in a very entertaining forum I read. Only place I've seen it. Hard to call it republican. Googled it. One film that is suppose to be him but I'm not going there. If he had fallen back into drug use as a massive OD implies I could see this happening. People just fall apart under addiction and there seems to be no barriers to their actions. Lost souls many of them have become where all you can do is pray that there soul returns before this life passes.
It's really unfortunate that Google of all things...GOOGLE!, can't get it right. Hip-Hop artists? Psha. He was actually a porn actor. Definitely not a star.
Google should have just chosen to call him an "austere religious scholar".
Note: I have never watched the George Floyd video. I've only read about it. I don't believe it is right to watch a person die.
You can watch and get a really good feel for how he was treated and turn it off before he even starts to be restrained.
It's not the new Republican talking point,Mark.
" Its the new Republican talking point about George Floyd."
Really? Well, count on Republicans to make themselves disgusting to ordinary people.
Althouse. No, not really. Why listen to Mark on this?
An acquaintance worked as an exotic dancer for a portion of her young adult life. She ultimately became a successful RN and works successfully in that field today.
That said, she sometimes still really makes some boneheaded decisions. I mean, *really* boneheaded decisions. Breathtakingly bad.
Like the decisions a young stripper would make. I’ve come to term this as “stripper decisions.”
I suspect there are also porn star decisions.
The police do have to be accountable for an in custody death. This is why we have a justice system. Otherwise we would have turned the cops over to the burning mob.
OTOH, just going through life we do encounter people that are placing themselves on worse situations simply because of decisions they have made in the past and continue to make today.
I guess this is why we have law, because we would certainly be factoring in those bad past decisions if we were simply left to life to decide outcomes.
Everyone in porn is a "star." Old observation, hashed out on social media from time to time. Pay attention.
"Really? Well, count on Republicans to make themselves disgusting to ordinary people."
Really? Good thing no Democrats pushed the Stormy Daniels incident as newsworthy!
At a minimum, George Floyd was a violent felon, yet he is deified by many on the left. I agree his death was newsworthy, but it appears that he died of a drug overdose that was the culmination of a series of poor choices in his life.
I am fine with deifying good role models. George Floyd is not the man to deify or to have hundreds of murals painted on his behalf.
I agree with Patrick, this moniker is a response to Google labelling him as a "hip hop artist".
Really, it is our need to put a person in a box that sums up their entire lives with as few words as possible. The problem is that every one of these things is true, because the guy led a complicated life like a b-story character in a Guy Ritchie movie and his story ends with deliriously ODing on fentanyl under the knee of a cruel cop.
Reminds me of what Patricia Cornwell's paramour said at her husband's trial: "No, we didn't have an affair. We just had sex a few times."
"It doesn't comport with my moral principles to be a spectator."
Why relegate to others what you consider to be an immoral activity so that you can be informed about what happened ?
Now I see why I am not on the same page with our host.
"It matters whether a person who died at the hands of police ..."
The autopsy showed Mr. Floyd had about 3x the typical lethal dose of fentanyl in his system when he died.
If someone in a riot shoots themselves three times, and then the police use tear gas to disrupt the illegal riot, and the man dies with tear gas in his lungs, did that man die in police custody?
"but not anything else about their life."
Beautiful aspiration, not reality.Traditional media go out of their way to describe Floyd in warm endearing terms. Unemployed drug addict doesn't stir up public sympathies. So he is labeled a hip hop artist - a profession he was only loosely associated with decades ago.Ngo countering legacy media's false narrative with some additional facts about Floyd provides balance.
Typical coverage for murdered innocents - they are praised for their qualities.
https://nypost.com/2019/10/27/queens-teen-shot-and-killed-remembered-as-promising-athlete/
https://www.northjersey.com/story/news/new-york/2018/06/25/bronx-bodega-killing-mourners-gather-wake-teen/733124002/
Or sometimes also for their beauty (by implication)
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/barnard-college-student-stabbed-death-new-york-city-park-n1100556
I recall a comedy "bit" that remarked on how all porn actors are called "stars".
the story is both tasteless and irrelevant.
But probably true. "Habitual criminal" is a better description, well-documented and relevant to his being arrested yet again.
You're not a "star" just because you do porn.
It's a typical word for porn actors, and although it seems wrongly used, it is correct: Star: the principal member of a theatrical or operatic company who usually plays the chief roles.
Focusing on the police, it may ultimately turn out that what the police did isn't what killed him,
That's always been obvious, and it's why the police are not charged with physically killing him.
I've never seen or heard anyone explain how the police could cause someone to die from cardiopulmonary arrest, especially without leaving any physical injuries, and especially when the CA symptoms started while he was standing up...well, other than giving the person a drug like fentanyl, which can cause cardiopulmonary arrest.
I don't believe it is right to watch a person die.
You're congratulating yourself on the equivalent of not watching unpleasant TV commercials since you're the only person affected by whether or not you watch.
Focusing on the police, it may ultimately turn out that what the police did isn't what killed him, but if he was dying of a drug overdose, there is still a problem of the police continuing to restrain him after he was unconscious. It is brutal to treat a dying person that way, even if you are not killing him
That's true, but would that have caused people to burn down the Minneapolis police station? Or set off the series of protests and riots we've had this summer?
Wherever Benjamin Crump goes, fake "facts" about the circumstances follow. Hands up don't shoot. Just getting skittles and iced tea while talking to his girlfriend on the phone, then laying unidentified in a morgue for 3 days. Breonna Taylor laying in bed asleep, shot in her bed. Jacob Blake breaking up a fight.
There's so much more to all of this than Andy Ngo calling him a porn star (really terrible idea) or 4 cops killing him because they don't care about black men.
I agree with this entirely. I did finally watch a minute or two of the cop kneeling on his neck. I couldn't get past his demeanor, hands in his pockets, empty and souless expression that told me he had been a cop too long, and lost his humanity.
Browndog. This is entirely true, and Derek Chauvin can sit in prison the rest of his life.
But the other two treated Floyd kindly from the very beginning. They are being railroaded, I believe. I think the first parts of the tapes are worth watching for that.
Nobody I know believes that Chauvin acted properly, and he will face the matter in a criminal trial for his conduct. That said, canonizing Floyd and treating him as if he was worth a bucket of warm spit ignores the fact that his body was full of the deadly drug fentanyl, he had been convicted of a home invasion in which he held a loaded gun to the belly of the pregnant resident, and he was known as the Houston Legend .
If anyone wants to erect a Floyd monument, it should be because he was well-cocked.
- Krumhorn
Pants @ 7:17AM
Winner
Isn't that cruel neutrality? I mean, it's a relatively accurate description--definitely not flattering, but the word "cruel" is right in the phrase, no?
Brian McKim and/or Traci Skene said...
Everyone in porn is a "star." Old observation, hashed out on social media from time to time. Pay attention.
Only the women are stars. The men are extras.
I couldn't get past his demeanor, hands in his pockets, empty and souless expression that told me he had been a cop too long, and lost his humanity.
I think that's what upset the emotion-based people, but I thought Chauvin looked bored as he waited for the ambulance to arrive, like someone pumping gas and waiting for the tank to fill.
What demeanor do you think he should've presented? Smiling? Worrying? Crying and yelling?
Republican talking point? Republicans are a political party. Any such talking points would presumably be about.....hmmmm....politics. You know like about Biden selling influence in office and then bragging later about how he told those Ukrainians they wouldn't get the billion dollars unless they fired the prosecutor who was investigating his son's gravy train.
Republicans don't have talking points about a late porn star and convicted felon being lionized by leftie scumbags like Mark. Normal people point things like that out.
- Krumhorn
Has anyone here looked into the life and works of Horst Wessel, who wrote the Nazi anthem "Horst Wessel Lied"? He was sorta the equivalent of a German hip-hop artist, being a brownshirt street fighter and pimp. He was killed by the Commies (or maybe by the blood poisoning he contracted at the hospital).
You can elevate any thug into the pantheon if you work at it hard enough and with enough cynicism. Horst, meet George. You are very different, but you were both bad artists famous for reasons unrelated to your music, such as it is.
police continuing to restrain him after he was unconscious.
You can tell he was really unconscious and not faking it right after he lied about being claustrophobic? Perhaps not watching the video leads to a special insight into what happened...
MayBee There's so much more to all of this than Andy Ngo calling him a porn star (really terrible idea) or 4 cops killing him because they don't care about black men.
Heh - what's worse, calling someone a murderer or calling someone a porn star?
Lefty Mark and Ann agree on one thing. I wonder how many others ?
So Floyd was not really a porn star or a hip-hop artist. Try one of these:
Tabula rasa
Multi-media sensation
Mixed media performer
Renaissance man
Schlub
Why, from a properly progressive standpoint, is it wrong to label Floyd a porn star? Isn't sex work legit? Can't consenting adults do as they please? Wasn't he just exercising his own autonomy and seeking the meaning of the universe, as Justice Kennedy assured us we all have the right to do?
Apart from the fact that it complicates the politically convenient deification of a convicted felon.
Sorry about the repeat posts, but something I haven't seen clarified yet:
How and where did Floyd get the counterfeit money? Who was he hanging out with? What does his use of such money say about his habits?
I mean, most of us deplorables, neither hip hop artists nor porn stars, would have to work at getting our hands on it.
Maybe a touch of battle fatigue.
Andy's been out there on the front lines getting the shit kicked out of him for a long time now.
He's doing reporting that 'real' journalists aren't.
You [Althouse] need to stop getting your "facts" about Republicans from lefties in your comment section.
@tim maguire, +1
Mark said...
Wendybar 'known to a lot of us'. Doubling down on this same smear and purporting to be a porn enthusiast.
Not really. I just pay attention and read everything, not just propaganda from the left.
Andy should’ve called him a porn performer, then. Not a star. Right, Althouse?
I don’t care if he did porn, but hey what’s true is true.
And don’t tell me he was so much more than that. He really wasn’t. In fact, doing porn might well have been one of the most positive things he did in his life. It’s entertainment that some people enjoy.
The other things I know about Floyd are not so positive.
Blogger Mark said..."The only way they can salve their conscience is to personally attack the dead and pretend that he deserved to die."
Salve their conscience for what?
I don't believe the police killed Floyd (and having watched the video I have a legitimate basis for my opinion) but I sure in the hell know I didn't kill him.
Horst Wessel did write the lyrics to the "Horst Wessel Lied".
He took the tune from some other, some say a Viennese folk tune, which might explain why its rather catchy.
Note: I have never watched the George Floyd video. I've only read about it. I don't believe it is right to watch a person die.
Watching that video would be difficult for anyone. So why should you rely on someone else doing the difficulty so you can read it? If the difficulty is the only reason to say no, you should watch the video.
Guys who consume porn fantasize that they will get "lucky" with women in porn. To gratify their egos every woman in a porn film is a star. The usage became so common that now everyone in porn is a "star" (and people who fancy themselves knowing see the irony in the phrase).
Ngo's* comment was in very poor taste. I wouldn't assume that any garbage you find on line is a "talking point" of one party or the other, though. We Internet trolls -- and we're all trolls one way or another -- have to take responsibility for what we say, and maybe if each side's trolls "own" what they say instead of passing the blame onto larger groups, we can get past some of the polarization. So much for the noble hope. Cue the cynical sarcasm.
______________
The dude is a non-governmental organization, unaffiliated with any party. It's right there in his name.
There is quite a bit of counterfeit money around Minneapolis these days. If you get the right kind of paper, a good home printer can produce some very realistic stuff. There are also techniques (on the internet, of course) for fuzzing the paper to give an even better feel. If one is hanging around drug dealers and users, one might encounter a fair amount of it.
If one of the arresting officers had appeared in a porn movie, we would have learned everything there was to learn about that porn movie....We know that George Zimmerman did not get along with his wife. We know nothing about the various ill fated marriages of Trayvon Martin's father. I wonder where Trayvon got the idea that beating up someone was the proper way to handle a situation. I wonder how Martin's father handled domestic disputes..... There seems to be a great many salient facts about the life and times of George Floyd that are not part of the narrative. This was not a guy who was fated to die a natural death. If he got shot during some dispute about drugs or money, his death would pass unremarked and his murderer would do far less jail time than Chauvin.....That's the way it goes. Nobody thinks of Harvey Weinstein as a fund raiser for Hillary Clinton. The memory hole is filtered but thorough.
Given the apparent popularity of internet porn, why is calling George Floyd a porn star a negative talking point?
Of course, it's another "Republicans Pounce" story from our cruelly "neutral" hostess.
I myself was disgusted when you, Ann, wrote that the police officer "executed" George Floyd.
"I couldn't get past his demeanor, hands in his pockets, empty and souless expression that told me he had been a cop too long, and lost his humanity."
He was keeping a pokerface because a crowd had gathered and were shouting things at him. But when one of the younger cops asked if they shouldn't turn Floyd over, he explained that in light of his apparent condition, it was safer to keep him face down until the ambulance arrived. He was trying to save Floyd's life.
Wait, wait. The issue is whether he was a "star" or just a bit player? Would you withdraw your objection if Ngo had called him a "porn actor"?
I call bullshit.
I agree with Big Mike, this is a disappointing lapse into pettiness by Ngo.
"The only way they can salve their conscience is to personally attack the dead and pretend that he deserved to die."
I don't know about you, Mark, but I actually don't believe that most porn stars deserve to die. Hip-hop "artists", definitely, but not porn stars.
But when George Floyd broke into the home of a pregnant woman and stuck a gun against her belly, he definitely deserved to die, and if I had been there with a gun of my own I'd have killed him. You are the one who seems to need to "salve his conscience" by posturing over shit you know nothing about. Also known as "virtue signaling". Mark is obviously the most virtuous person on Althouse blog this AM. Could we have a new tag for "Mark and his big, fat virtue, visible from outer space"? Maybe BLM will give him an "Eat me last!" card.
I Have Misplaced My Pants said... You are not getting it. Andy is deliberately mocking the absurd St. George behavior. He's not claiming he deserved to die because he was in some porn thing; he's saying 'you people getting off on pretending he walked on water should stop doing that.'
This. This is the point of Ngo's tweet. The canonization of Floyd and anyone else who the Left wants to make a martyr of is ridiculous.
Should the police be absolved of wrong doing. No. Of course not. HOWEVER they also should not be immediately accused of murder or other heinous acts.
We have to take in the TOTALITY of the situation to make a judgement. This includes the character and actions of ALL parties including the deceased.
Making Floyd a sainted martyr is a mistake because it turns people off who would otherwise want to be judicious and neutral.
What wrong with being a porn star?
I see him as a coronavirus victim.
Due to the covid lockdown, he lost his job, which led him probably to using counterfeit money.
I had no idea he had done any hip hop.
BTW, Althouse, if you had watched the video, you would know that people were shouting stuff at Derek Chauvin, and that is why he had that look on his face. And you would have heard his response to the other officer, and you would know that he was trying to save Floyd's life. But if you aren't willing to take the simple step necessary to become knowledgeable on the subject, doesn't it behoove you to accept the conclusions of those of us who have done so?
George Floyd was killed by a man with a long criminal history. But it's far too late to try and punish that criminal, because George Floyd already killed him.
Fernandinande said, "I think that's what upset the emotion-based people, but I thought Chauvin looked bored as he waited for the ambulance to arrive, like someone pumping gas and waiting for the tank to fill."
I thought the image of Chauvin with his hands in his pockets was a terrible look. But it occurred to me this might have been routine for Chauvin, something he'd down a thousand times. Likely not a thousand times, but Chauvin seemed quite familiar and comfortable with the technique. If he's used it before, we ought to know something about how things worked out. I don't know, but I'd guess there was never a fatality.
“Focusing on the police, it may ultimately turn out that what the police did isn't what killed him, but if he was dying of a drug overdose, there is still a problem of the police continuing to restrain him after he was unconscious. It is brutal to treat a dying person that way, even if you are not killing him.”
I would have t ask you how they should have treated Floyd?
Yes, the police knew that Floyd was ODing. They unfortunately guessed wrong about the drug though - guessing that it was a non-narcotic like Ecstasy or Cocaine/crack. That was part of why he was removed from the police vehicle and placed on the ground (where he wanted to be). That was the point where they cops essentially went from custody waiting for transport, to a medical issue waiting for an ambulance. They called for paramedics and and ambulance, but initially Code 2. Later, when Floyd continued to deteriorate, they upped the call to Code 3. Why was he being held how he was being held? Because one of the big killers with ODs is aspirating their own vomit. Their natural instinct is to roll onto their backs. Then if/when they vomit from the OD, they aspirate it. So the SOP for dealing with ODs is to keep them off their backs.
Let’s summarize:
1) Floyd was initially arrested for forgery (etc).
2) he was placed in a police car in order to transport him to be booked
3) when it became evident that he was experiencing a medical issue, he was removed from the car, laid on the ground, and positioned so he wouldn’t aspirate his own vomit. Ambulance and paramedics were called Code 2.
4) when his condition continued to deteriorate, the priority of the call for medical assistance was upped to Code 3.
5) when his heart stopped (with medical assistance still a block or two away), one of the officers began chest compressions, which he continued in the ambulance on the way to the hospital.
Again, I ask - what should the police have done differently?
One of the things that I discovered when a friend almost died as a result of what most would consider medical malpractice - that cascading events can escape liability, if none of them by themselves cross into malpractice, and that marginal care is often not legally insufficient care. It appears to this lay person that the police had valid reasons for doing what they did. A medical professional probably would have the medical emergency better. They may have determined more quickly that Floyd was ODing, and that the drug was a narcotic, and thus could possibly be counteracted by administration of Narcan/naloxone (if they had it available). They may have initially called for paramedics Code 3. They might have detected that Floyd’s red blood cells were sickling, but probably didn’t have a saline bag handy. But what level of medical expertise should you expect from the police? They may have made some inadequate decisions. But were they inadequate enough for criminal liability?
Ann Althouse said...
Focusing on the police, it may ultimately turn out that what the police did isn't what killed him, but if he was dying of a drug overdose, there is still a problem of the police continuing to restrain him after he was unconscious. It is brutal to treat a dying person that way, even if you are not killing him.
Note: I have never watched the George Floyd video.
--
Wow..all those rapid fire responses leading up to this.
Fernandinande (8:36am):
Thanks for the giggle: first referring to a (male) porn star as the "principal member" of his troupe and then rubbing it in by starting the next sentence with "Focusing".
If we're looking for people to blame for Floyd's death, don't forget the Chinese government, for sending us Covid, and the governor of Minnesota, for locking down the economy. Before the lockdown, Floyd had apparently pulled his life together enough to be making an honest living as a bouncer at a strip club. (Yes, I count that as an honest living, though closer than most to the line between honest and dishonest.) Would he have been desperate enough to take a drug overdose or try to pass a counterfeit $20 if he'd still had a job and an income? I doubt it.
I felt reservations about watching the video too. It makes me think of public lynchings. But not because I think the police set out to kill Floyd, or were motivated to do anything but get him secured until he calmed down from whatever crazy drug storm he'd inflicted on his own body.
It reminds me of public lynchings because it inflames and legitimates mob passions -- both the truncated video and the misleading media coverage, and the response by groveling officials and so-called "activists." The lynch mob this time is the rioters who destroyed your community and the city near me and countless people's lives and livelihoods throughout the country.
I don't think we can look away when mobs murder cops and civilians, threaten and attack bystanders, and limit our ability to move freely and speak freely without fear. I think that to remain silent in the face of these things is immoral.
I finally watched the long version of the video because I have spoken and written about it. In terms of ethics, is there really that much difference between reading about Floyd's death and watching it? I don't have an answer. I've spent decades pouring over written and photographic and video records of lynchings, riots, and other violence. After doing that much of it, I intuitively feel that a video of a death is exploitative if it diminishes that person's death, but is that the case here? I'm also just not sure reading versus looking is all that different.
Sick people get their rocks off on looting and rioting, kicking people's heads in, dragging bystanders from their cars, suppressing speech, shooting cops, and, yes, by painting pretty murals justifying looting on the actual physical damage done by the rioters themselves.
Moral people should face this reality, eyes wide open. And then defend what's right. Defend your community. Defend free expression. Defend the process of criminal justice which will decide whether one person did something to another person, because the rest of all of this is sheer toxic lefto-anarchist political mob violence.
You don't need to watch the actual video to know the way the wind is blowing.
Andy Ngo said, "BLM protesters in SE Portland gather for a birthday celebration/worship of late porn star George Floyd."
I'm a little surprised Twitter didn't censor the tweet, and Ngo would have been wiser not to post it. But, "Something is very wrong" seems as overwrought as the beatification of George Floyd.
Really? Well, count on Republicans to make themselves disgusting to ordinary people.
It's ghoulish. The suggestion is: "A piece of human trash is dead so why make a big deal about it?"
I agree with Big Mike
Why thank you, Ken B.
Typical coverage for murdered innocents
@buwaya, just so you understand that (1) George Floyd died while under arrest, ergo no “innocent,” and (2) whether he was murdered is still for a jury to decide.
Floyd was a porn star, a drug user, and criminal, the chosen symbol of Some, Select Black Lives Matter, and its multitrimester period of witch hunts, warlock trials, protests, and intimidation in the spirit and practice of the diversity (i.e. color judgment) racket. The Democrats' KKK revisited.
George Floyd was killed by a man with a long criminal history. But it's far too late to try and punish that criminal, because George Floyd already killed him.
Self-abortion. Break out the... what? Pussy hats? The black fists? The rubber nooses? Here's to progress.
6-inches and you're an actor.
9-inches and you're a star...
Don't be dumb, Althouse. It's sarcasm. The way the media called Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi an "austere religious scholar".
"You're not a "star" just because you do porn."
Any featured actor in a film is referred to as the "star of the movie/film" in the vernacular.
Note:
"Shopping cart pusher, maybe someone groovy -
One's thing's for sure he isn't starring in a movie, 'cos he's
Walking in LA; walking in LA, nobody walks in LA;
Walkind in LA; walking in LA, only a nobody walks in LA."
Even way back in 1982, they weren't saying, "One thing's for sure he isn't acting in a movie..."
After the "austere religious scholar" thing I am 100 percent OK with it.
"If we're looking for people to blame for Floyd's death, don't forget the Chinese government, for sending us Covid, and the governor of Minnesota, for locking down the economy."
You might also want to consider that both the fentanyl that killed him and the counterfeit $20 that got him arrested also came from China. As does the funding and direction for BLM. During the 20th century, it was the Soviet Union that attempted to weaken the US with covert attacks. Now it is China. But the methods are pretty much the same.
Apparently he did at least one porn scene, Google it.
Calling him a "porn star" may be an exaggeration of his status in the porn world, but beyond that is just needlessly trashy and it is certainly not what Floyd is known for or why people are uset at his death. Regardless of what was Floyd's porn career, and what Ngo thinks of te protesters, this is just a cheap shot at a dead man.
Bad, stupid move by Ngo.
Brian McKim and/or Traci Skene said...
Everyone in porn is a "star." Old observation, hashed out on social media from time to time. Pay attention.
Only the women are stars. The men are extras.
==================================
... and Howeeeeeeee is one of those fluffers...
Missing Persons reference!
Saw them (and REALLY saw Mrs. Bozzio) at Raincross Square in Riverside, Ca in ‘82
Jupiter said... Althouse, if you had watched the video, you would know that people ... But if you aren't willing to take the simple step necessary to become knowledgeable on the subject, doesn't it behoove you to accept the conclusions of those of us who have done so?
It sounds like you are suggesting that her pose of "cruel neutrality" is actual willful ignorance in subservience to her emotional and political biases.
I noticed the same thing during the Kavanaugh Inquisition.
Yeah, it's wrong and a bit classless to dwell on the porn star thing when describing GF. I understand that it's also pointing out the absurdity of describing him as a hip hop artist. I get that -- but it's still a bit classless.
But I work in higher education and I've heard of higher education entities considering the establishment scholarships in GF's name. That's completely inappropriate and worthy of mockery.
Both sides could use some balance.
"Late porn star."
If you're a porn star, it's better to be late than early.
: )
I don’t get Andy Ngo
Neither does ANTIFA. They went so far as to assault him with full water bottles, chunks o’ concrete and Qwikset Concrete milkshakes.
@Mark Nielsen ...
North Central University establishes scholarship in George Floyd’s name
I suppose I should no longer be amazed at how stupidly broken our society has become. The guys working at Big-O tires have more sense than the creeps who're ruining the universities.
Really? Well, count on Republicans to make themselves disgusting to ordinary people.
Yeah. Because we're using words as opposed rioting in the streets over a dead, felonious thug.
I think the point that Ngo was trying to make... poorly... was that George Floyd was not a saint and he was not killed by Derek Chauvin but instead by a fatal overdose of fentanyl, and that he happened to die while being restrained by Chauvin was coincidential rather than causative.
From what I've read these are true statements. That doesn't mean that Chauvin didn't act with depraved indifference, that he should have recognized when Floyd became unconscious and then immediately called for medical aid... and that Chauvin, who I believe is suffering from PTSD, should no longer be an active-duty LE officer.
I find the "porn star" reference distasteful. I also find his treatment as a beloved member of the community distasteful. George was a flawed man who did some terrible things but appears to have tried to turn his life around, a quest that he eventually failed in the most tragic way possible. RIP.
I suspect that Andy had gotten tired of ANTIFA's crap and had a slip up. It happens.
The thing is Andy is one of the few people actually doing journalism these days. So you can get a flawed man doing a thankless task occasionally acting like a jerk, or you can have a wide range of respectable journalists who pretend to care about the news but are basically political animals who are essentially pushing propaganda. The latter are quite respectable, but the best of them are bad at their jobs and the worst of them are professional liars.
Andy basically single-handedly brought Antifa antics to the public's eyes early on by going undercover in CHAZ/CHOP and broadly covering the Portland shenanigans. He's got some fixations, but shares things that otherwise might not get seen. The viewer gets to decide what they think of what he shares and says. As it should be.
"hip hop artist" is an oxymoron.
"hip hop performer" would be a better description.
But really who cares? Perhaps there is something wrong with me, but since I have no personal connection with anyone even remotely involved in this incident, I am content to let the jury decide about it and get on with my life. There are no issues of national import here; even if it is found that the police acted reasonably within their orders, yet the people in that community think that those orders ought to be changed, that is a local matter.
A lot of people need to get a life, I think.
Ann, I know you didn't watch and will not watch the video footage of the arrest, and I perfectly respect your reasons. That said, there are a few things that are important to note:
1. George was obviously stoned when the police showed up.
2. He was stating he "couldn't breathe" long before the famous moment. He was saying it while standing up, and he was saying it when he was sitting down. And he probably couldn't breathe because he was overdosing. That knee on his neck had nothing to do with it, though I suspect it didn't help any.
3. Most likely George was going to die that day no matter what happened. He had already poisoned himself.
4. The police were very patient with him for quite some time. If George had cooperated, he probably would have had a higher chance of survival for the simple reason that being in police custody would probably have improved his chances of getting to a hospital promptly. Unfortunately, George was so addled that he probably could not have cooperated if he wanted to.
I've seen in several places that GF prostituted himself in such a way; no idea how much truth is in the assertion, nor in the one that describes him as a 'hip hop star'.
There is a real difference between lamenting a wrongful death and wanting its perpetrator brought to justice and maligning an entire class of people (e.g. 'Republicans') because 'people' point out that the dead fellow wasn't a paragon of virtue, as there can likewise be a vast difference between what would be one's speech and demeanor at his funeral and one's attitude when discussing the political ramifications of his death outside the family circle. I can't imagine that these distinctions aren't obvious in normal circumstances.
> Really? Well, count on Republicans to make themselves disgusting to ordinary people.
> You're not a "star" just because you do porn.
For a magic word thinker
You are not performing well today
"Yeah. Because we're using words as opposed rioting in the streets over a dead, felonious thug."
At least I'm not an arson. I'll remember that one the next time I am an asshole to my wife. I suspect it will be as pursuasive on her as it is on me.
Ann et al, it's very informative to watch the video where former experienced prosecutor George Parry--who worked for ten years specifically prosecuting POLICE crime and corruption--shows a lot of the various Floyd videos and discusses the facts and the law. What you will see from that video is that Floyd was treated with a decent amount of concern and respect from the police. Floyd was first encountered by police sitting in the driver's seat of an SUV, and he acted alternatively cooperatively and bizarrely when the police tried to talk to him and get him out of that vehicle. When they realized that Floyd was acting strangely, they don't know if he's got a mental illness or is on drugs. They ask him repeatedly if he is on any drugs and say that they will get him medical attention if he took something. They talk to his two passengers to find out what Floyd's situation is.
It's not at all obvious that he's on any kind of narcotic (so Narcan would not have been used); if anything he seems to be hyped on something like uppers.
The police worry if he is going to develop excited delirium, and when Floyd insists that he needs to lay down and that he can't breathe, they take him out of the patrol car and lay him on the pavement. I saw that as being considerate because it's not typical procedure. They then use the Department-approved knee to the side of the neck hold, which to my surprise is NOT pinning someone down and smashing their trachea. Floyd was able to talk and to lift his head up during the knee/neck/shoulder pin. They called for EMS fairly early on in the encounter, and call again to speed up the EMS arrival when he becomes non-responsive.
I haven't seen the entire video but I saw most of it and the police were not acting like callous bullies. They were handling a developing situation with a man whose behavior and speech were confusing. They seem to have made a mistake when they didn't back off when he became unresponsive--I don't know what was going through their minds, but they hadn't been treating him badly up to that point so it's hard to believe that they just thought it was fun or something to continue to restrain him after he wasn't struggling anymore.
It’s the new republican talking point? This is the first I’ve seen or heard about it. Damn, I’m out of the loop.
Ann Althouse said, in asking about a tweet about "hip-hop artist" George Floyd:
"'Late porn star'? I don't get Andy Ngo."
As everyone else who's commented by now have probably pointed out, St. George did a porn flick in his...hip-hop life. The airbrushing of his history leaves that part out.
Democrats haven’t been this angry since they lost the civil war and the Republicans took away their slaves...
It’s called iPhone keyboards and autocorrect
Puzzled that you're puzzled.
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