"... and a map of Michigan. He did not post on YouTube again until three weeks ago. In that video, Caserta does not speak and simply loads and poses with a long gun while wearing a shirt that says 'F--- The Government.'... On TikTok, Caserta posted selfie videos railing against the state, along with antigovernment hashtags.... 'The price of freedom is eternal vigilance,' he said in a video posted Wednesday. In one video, Caserta is wearing a Hawaiian shirt, which is typically associated with the boogaloo movement. On Facebook, he posted about guns and Covid-19 conspiracies and espoused conflicting political ideologies, including anarchism. Caserta's Twitter timeline appears to show his rapid descent into radicalization. In 2018 and early 2019, Caserta largely liked and posted about comedy shows, podcasts like 'The Joe Rogan Experience,' motivational quotations and selfies. Caserta's only likes after the onset of the pandemic mention conspiracy theories about Bill Gates and a meme about hogtying police officers."
Go there if you need video of Caserta saying, "Trump is not your friend, dude. And it amazes me that people actually believe that when he's shown over and over and over again that he's a tyrant. Every single person that works for government is your enemy, dude."
Does that line indicate that Caserta is an extremist of the right or an extremist of the left? I say right, because he's addressing righties, saying they need to be more extreme. Why would a lefty extremist address someone who believes Trump is his friend? And call him "dude"? "Dude" is a somewhat nice thing to call somebody. A lefty extremist would, I think, say something closer to "you fucking asshole."
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156 comments:
He’s on the right. But I’d be surprised if he held typically conservative views on, say, abortion, gay marriage and national defense.
Reliably leftist.
One of Cookies friends?
Anarchist symbols as of late fall into the leftwing pocket.
show me a collections of so called "right wing extremists" in front of anarchist symbols.
@Althouse, you say right because you’re wrong.
“Why would a lefty extremist address someone who believes Trump is his friend? And call him "dude"? "Dude" is a somewhat nice thing to call somebody. A lefty extremist would, I think, say something closer to "you fucking asshole."”
Purely on an understanding Guyspeak basis, you’ve got this one wrong, Althouse. “Dude”, like “motherfucker”, can be used in the full range of the love-hate spectrum. It’s all about context and delivery. “Fucking asshole” is artless.
Perhaps Ann is trying to be provocative, but just to recap the Althouse standards of proof:
Left wing extremism must be confirmed by an article in traditional media- NYT or better, only. Otherwise the accusation is bullshit.
Right wing extremeism is confirmed by use of the term Dude.
That last line made me laugh.
Whatever you can say about these guys, Whitmer is as big a problem. She's a partisan and so is her DA. Can't stand either of them.
Why do I care who this lunatic is addressing? I’ll make it easy for you, Althouse: think of him as the Joe Rogan of anarchists.
Why would someone trying to proselytize say that to the heathen?
You're really twisting trying to say someone connected to a political movement that became very predominantly left wing 20 years ago is actually on the right. Left wing anarchism took over anarchism in the late 90s and right wing anarchism has never recovered its former numbers and influence in the ideology.
The guy is a crazy. And anger has overtaken him.
Right or left? - he is an anarchist and anarchists are normally associated with the left and antifa. The third possibility (not examined) is that he is not associated with either side but out in his own anti-government orbit. The need to slander Trump or Biden by associating him with either shows a desperation on both sides. The press starts it by trying to tag Trump with him, so the right side pushes back.
It's not pretty when our politics requires that someone like him has to be tied to one side or another. Both sides should condemn him as an outside of either mainstream crazy.
Why would a lefty extremist address someone who believes Trump is his friend? And call him "dude"? "Dude" is a somewhat nice thing to call somebody. A lefty extremist would, I think, say something closer to "you fucking asshole."
Althouse has never heard of the Lincoln Project?
We have a lot of militia stories in Michigan all of a sudden. The FBI shot somebody in a parking lot at a strip mall restaurant, not far from me. Authorities aren’t saying the events are connected and they’re not saying they aren’t connected.
He's inept so I guess that means he's on the right. If he were on the left there would have been blood and fire, not just chaotic thinking and confusing videos. The radical left is much more capable when seeking death and destruction than the extremist right.
The man exists in that nether world where you are so far right you end up on the far left.
Left or right, obviously nobody wants to take ownership of a lunatic like this. Seems like he self identified as an anarchist with that flag. There's extremists on the left and right who call themselves anarchists. Wikipedia says this of anarchism:
"It is usually described alongside libertarian Marxism as the libertarian wing (libertarian socialism) of the socialist movement and as having a historical association with anti-capitalism and socialism."
The phrase "libertarian Marxism" seems like a bit of an oxymoron since I've always thought of "Marxism" as being fairly inextricable with Communism and Collectivism (and Socialism to a lesser extent) which requires reducing and removing personal freedoms with the heavy hand of a strong centralized authority.
The smilarities between the paranoid left and paranoid right seem larger than their differences.
Crazy people
Do crazy things
For crazy reasons.
Trying to make sense of their actions is... crazy.
You are trying to place an easy L-R dichotomy on a nutjob anarchist.
Sometimes a nutjob is just a nutjob, Ms. Freud.
Welcome to reality. Lawlessness is the common ground of left wing and right wing prophets of doom. They both call for the removal of all police. Any government is their #1enemy no matter who runs it. This insane BS has always been a precursor to dictatorship.
Caserta is a right-wing extremist as that term is commonly understood--someone inconvenient who holds at least 1 view not undeniably left-wing.
In one video, Caserta is wearing a Hawaiian shirt, which is typically associated with the boogaloo movement.
What was it, 3? 4? months a go that some guy was accused of wearing a Hawaiian shirt while not supporting BLM and now it's the symbol of a movement? Amazing how much mileage a properly motivated media can squeeze out of nothing at all.
Pandemic or Dempanic?
And call him "dude"? "Dude" is a somewhat nice thing to call somebody. A lefty extremist would, I think, say something closer to "you fucking asshole."
Where does "lying dog faced pony soldier" fall on that spectrum ?
He's closer to Antifa than he is to a Conservative. Closer, but obviously more radical, to a Libertarian than he is to a Conservative. As he's stated he wants to destroy the government and the police, I would say that he's kin to Antifa. I'll leave BLM aside for this one.
Lenin was all about what this guy is about. This is how the extreme socialists work. You can pair him up to the right- white guy, long beard, guns and more guns...but this guy is a cousin to Lenin's actions. He's closer to the extreme left- if anything.
Antifa. BLM. Wolverine Watchmen. They all have common ties. If you did a Venn diagram of them, most of it would be blended.
Now- what do I do with all of my Tommy Bahama shirts?
I don't know whether these guys are right or left or just all mixed up, but I find the timing suspicious.
On numerous occasions the FBI have used undercover operatives and CI's to befriend and influence unstable guys like this to do more than just mouth off on the internet. They then entrap the hapless nuts by offering them encouragement and material support, getting them to commit themselves to some crazy plan, arresting them and claiming in a big media show that they have thwarted a domestic terrorist attack.
Obviously I don't know this is what happened, but would you put outside the realm of possibility in light of what we've already seen the FBI do?
Who's more dangerous to our republic? These pudd knockers or an FBI and CIA that run a coup attempt against the President and continue to cover it up?
Does asking that question make me a right wing whacko?
1. Months of delay before arrests.
2. Announced immediately upon McCabe refusal to testify and Brennan memo release.
3. Inadequate information released to determine how much FBI "encouraged" them.
4. FBI history of creating "terrorists" to arrest, from communists to Nazis to Islamists to White Supremacists, before this event.
5. FBI failure to take down Antifa organizers in Portland, Seattle, Kenosha, Minneapolis, or any other city in the United States, despite having arrest records of actual violent rioters as investigation starting point.
6. Immediate nationwide Dem narrative about Trump pushing white supremacy.
Other than that, yeah, nothing suspicious about this at all. Would be much less suspect had the arrests been made in June.
You know who wears Hawaiian shirts?
Obama, that's who.
Mind blown...
"trump is a tyrant" - I've heard that before, but not by you.
Nancy Plopsis. CNN.
Let me paraphrase Biden, Nadler et al re the "boogaloo movement". As far as I can tell it's an idea, not a group.
What does wearing a Hawaiian shirt indicate---the most probable thing is that the wearer has bad sartorial taste. If I spot some paunchy 45 year old guy at a backyard barbecue with ribs on the grill and a brewski in his hand while wearing a shirt with a bunch of marijuana leaves and pineapples on it, is he a chieftain of the boogaloo clan?
Boogaloo--a fever dream of lefty "journalists".
I don't think most people on the Right would see wanting to destroy the police as a "Right" thing.
I don't think we have enough information about all the group members to know what their politics were. One guy seems to be an anarchist, that's it - so we know slightly more than we did when people started claiming that they were a right-wing group.
How is addressing Trump supporters a sign that he wants them to go farther Right instead of a request for them to switch sides? It might indicate the ideology he came from, not where he is now.
Is someone says "dude is a tyrant" ... "tyrant" is a bit more telling. no?
The ONLY reason anyone cares if he is "right" or "left" is to use as a club against their political opponents. He is an anarchist, who cares if he is far-right or far-left. He is a an anti-government nutter.
You people own these losers. It must be disquieting to feel like you are looking in the mirror at the michigan militia 13 mugshots.
Sorry, but I don't know anybody on the right who waves an Anarchist Flag. Antifa does, and the left thinks they are an idea. There ya go. An idea who wanted to kidnap and kill the Governor. Lefties own this.
Looks like a right wing nut - both left and right have them. What really screams at me though is the timing of this arrest right in the middle of an election cycle when left wing groups have been rioting and doing grave damage in several cities. Yet the FBI did not investigate antifa and did nothing during CHOP. This looks like the FBI trying to influence an election to me.
This looks like a narrative arrest to take the pressure off the left and move it right to PDT. I actually believe the FBI is capable of such doings now after seeing how they acted with the Russian hoax. The FBI and CIA have a lot on the line with this next election. If PDT wins more of their nefarious acts will come out and some will probably go to jail. If Biden wins, Durham will be shut down and it will all be forgotten.
Whitmer says that Trump sent secret signals to these lunatic anarchists to encourage them. If she's hearing a dog-whistle of secret signals must mean she's the dog. Or maybe she's been wearing her tinfoil hat too long.
"a Hawaiian shirt, which is typically associated with the boogaloo movement."
BS. It is typically associated with being on vacation. In a relaxing location. Like Hawaii for example.
False dichotomy.
Why would a lefty extremist address someone who believes Trump is his friend? And call him "dude"? "Dude" is a somewhat nice thing to call somebody.
Concern trolling, perhaps?
A lefty extremist would, I think, say something closer to "you fucking asshole."
But that's not a way to get people to listen to what you have to say. Calling people "fucking assholes" is how you start a fight, even an extremist could temper his rhetoric to get the message out.
The real stupidity is trying to use him to hang your political opponents. He can't reasonably be called left or right (contrary to common partisan opinion, not everything can be stuffed neatly into one or the other of those 2 boxes), but shameless opportunists will do their best to use him to smear their enemies anyway.
So far, so good: Elmore Leonard plot without the snappy dialogue as yet.
As to the increasing radicalization and embrace of conspiracy theories, well, if it's actually a conspiracy, what are you going to do? Whitmer is a dim-witted, tyrannical character, and absolutely perfect for this story.
On numerous occasions the FBI have used undercover operatives and CI's to befriend and influence unstable guys like this to do more than just mouth off on the internet. They then entrap the hapless nuts by offering them encouragement and material support, getting them to commit themselves to some crazy plan,
Randy Weaver comes to mind. Remember Ruby Ridge? Probably not.
As the election gets closer, cruel neutrality slips away.
Trump is for law and order. These guys in Michigan are not. I don't get the connection you're trying to make, Althouse. Perhaps I'm misreading you. I'll wait for the podcast.
When it comes to anarchists terms like like left or right at largely meaningless. However in this current season chaos serves both the Right’s immediate purposes (illustrating chaos in Blue cities/states) and the Left’s intermediate-term goals (chaos and lawlessness help break down societal norms). Thus anyone can see whatever they want among these actors and reactors.
Hogtying cops doesn't seem very MAGA to me, but how can we argue with a Hawaiian shirt.
Why on earth does an examination of Caserta's ideas have to be only a choice between the right and the left?
Is Joe Rogan suspect now as well? Can I no longer wear my Tommy Bahama shirt while listening to a Joe Rogan podcast?
He must be on the right. If he was on the left:
A) He would just be an idea and not an actual person.
B) The media wouldn’t be reporting it
A couple of questions for Althouse:
Why does political affiliation have to be binary?
When did Trump become a right winger? He always seemed to be a conservative Democrat.
It seems the guy has a problem with all authority and any government official. Trying to place him on the Left/Right axis is wasted effort because he is in his own category of his own making.
Yeah, leftists never address people on the right, to tell them how to fix themselves /sarc. Ever read the NYT op eds?
Joe Smith said...
You know who wears Hawaiian shirts?
Obama, that's who.
Mind blown...
10/9/20, 9:15 AM
*looks down at own shirt*
Uh oh....
I can't forgive the boogs for making Hawaiian shirts a symbol of right-wing extremism. The ability of a few nutcases (usually from one or more of the 'chans) to turn something innocuous into a taboo is yet further evidence that the average IQ of our society (and particularly our media) is about 70.
Because nothing says Right Wing like drive-thru ear plugs, rad tats, black clothing and a prominent display of Antifa flags. I think you're trying a little too hard.
Hawaiian shirts? OMG! No wonder Steinmart is closing here.
This looks like a pre-election gift from the DNCFBI to the Dems to displace Brennan’s notes from the “news.” I haven’t read of an overt act by these morons yet. Has anybody? Blathering ain’t conspiring.
What bullshit!
When you get that far out into the extremes, the left/right classifications start to break down. At some point you just want the world to burn, but before you get to that point you lose contact with whatever goals you were trying to accomplish in favor of the obsession. It's one of the classic tragedies: the radical who is so dedicated to a cause that he or she forgets what the fight was about in the first place.
Whats the difference. His views are his own and do not necessarily reflect those of the management.
Obama, Hillary, and Whitmer all committed more crimes than this idiot.
Notice how the Democrats are running on this guy day now 24/7 despite video of him calling Trump a tyrant.
Delayed the arrest by months to happen in October.
All the news organizations ready to go.
Ann thinks this is a game.
Have you seen the videos of Wauwatosa yet Ann? This is not a game.
>>In one video, Caserta is wearing a Hawaiian shirt, which is typically associated with the boogaloo movement.
Damn. Hawai'i must be the most racist state in the nation!
They all seem to be followers of that most famous White Supremacist, Don Ho.
Are there libertarian strains of anarchism? Yes, there are. But, if there was such a "right-wing" anarchist, why would he appear underneath a banner that has been taken over as a public symbol by left-wing anarchists? It seems to me that a "dissident" right-wing anarchist would take care to separate himself from the common left-wing horde or lefty anarchists.
There is in Caserta's video a flag of some sort on the wall screen right. Does anyone have any idea as to what that flag represents?
I see the "Trump idolatry" tab. I think the point is that these culprits aren't Trump idolaters, as we are being pushed by certain people to believe.
These quasi-anarchists hate Trump and what he says. And it's not like the Trump campaign is trying (Harris-style) to bail these sorts of people out of jail, generally. It's dishonest to blame Trump for what they do.
Trump's own frequent lack of probity is a problem. But his opponents generally treat that as a sort of limbo-bar to get under. And they do, again and again. It's not impressive.
i learn something new, every day. Today i learned that:
white supremacists anarchists boogaloo boys and Trump supporters are Exactly the same people
Right? I mean, that's what they're saying, right?
The world is so confusing
This exercise would be more useful if it had some sort of point. As per the media, anything that can conceivably be considered Trump's fault is Trump's fault, and anything that cannot be conceivably be considered Trump's fault will be manufactured into Trump's fault, and anything that cannot reach manufactured outrage levels against Trump is not news. We've already gone through this in Portland and Seattle where mainstream Democratic politicians gave support, sometimes enthusiastically, to violent rioters and anarchists destroying their own cities. This, of course, was not news until it could no longer be buried at which point it was Trump's fault.
The only reason we go thru this exercise every time something like this happens is the media tries to blame the right for everything that they can, and the right has become very defensive about this because they know the libel is coming. Remember when the radicalized Muslim shot up the Orlando night club? That was because Christians did not support gay marriage, an assertion so absurd that only an idiot could believe it. Remember the Las Vegas concert shooting? The NRA was declared a terrorist group with blood on their hands due to the actions of a guy who had no discernable agenda. Or you can always go back and "enjoy" the oldie but goodie of Sarah Palin being to blame when a loon with no coherent political philosophy shot Gabrielle Giffords, no doubt motivated by a map with crosshairs on it that most likely he never saw.
Ah... those who cannot seem to see beyond the one-dimensional 'right-left'
paradigm. This guy is clearly out in the ozone somewhere espousing his own set of beliefs that do not follow a strictly normalized 'right-left' tradition. You've got to view this type of behavior as as somewhat orthogonal to the 'right-left' axis.
That being said, the doctrinaire left claiming this guy is 'far-right' needs to consider at least the following two known facts:
1) This guy hates the police. With what faction on the 'right-left' spectrum does that fact best align?
2) This guy does not like Trump at all. So how does that square with the left claiming that Trump instigated this conspiracy against Whitmer when he made some statements about opening up Michigan COVID-wise? Fanatics usually don't take actions based on their enemy's 'suggestions'.
Whatever the political foundation this guy is not aligned or supportive of Donald Trump, Republicans, Joe Biden, and Democrats. Attempts to make him so are political propaganda.
I put him in the Bat Shit Crazy party.
"A lefty extremist would, I think, say something closer to "you fucking asshole."
It's this type of impeccable logic that is making me lean towards voting Biden, 2020.
Sweet baby gee-buzz.
And the FBI will be arresting antifa and blm leaders in 3..2..1..
Nevermind.
Dude, like fuck, is among the most versatile of words. You don't seem to grasp its multipurpose usage and capability.
The Democrats are trying to say they are Trump supporters and are "White Supremist". They are NEITHER. Trying to claim they are "Right wing" is a lie. There is no "Right wing anarchism" anymore than there's Right-wing Communism. BTW, my local "moderate" MSM radio host was lying about these people being Trump supporters and "assassins'" this AM. The MSM just lies with impunity these days. Its like living in the USSSR.
Meanwhile, while these harmless nuts dominate the headlines, Antifa and BLM are destroying property and assaulting law enforcement in REAL LIFE. But lets talk about trivia.
Remember the leftist, who shot 5 republican congressman? Per the MSM he was just a "lone nut". No one influenced him to do anything. Meanwhile, EVERY attack/threat on Democrats is placed at the R's and Trump's door. You're being Gaslighted people.
Is anti-government organizing in and of itself bad?
I don't agree with the man involved here, but recall that Patrick Henry was also an "anti-government organizer."
More Bugaboo Boys sighted in Kansas City
https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2017/7/27/16050352/2nd-annual-arrowhead-pride-hawaiian-shirt-day
"Dude" is a somewhat nice thing to call somebody.
That's a pretty weak foundation on which to build an argument, one could as easily argue that it is disrespectful to call the president "dude". I'd say the guy is a nutty anarchist and closer to Emma Goldman than to either political party.
I do find it curious that the FBI is more interested in chasing these people down than they seem to be in AntiFa.
The Democrats are trying to say they are Trump supporters and are "White Supremist". They are NEITHER. Trying to claim they are "Right wing" is a lie. There is no "Right wing anarchism" anymore than there's Right-wing Communism. BTW, my local "moderate" MSM radio host was lying about these people being Trump supporters and "assassins'" this AM. The MSM just lies with impunity these days. Its like living in the USSSR.
Meanwhile, while these harmless nuts dominate the headlines, Antifa and BLM are destroying property and assaulting law enforcement in REAL LIFE. But lets talk about trivia.
Remember the leftist, who shot 5 republican congressman? Per the MSM he was just a "lone nut". No one influenced him to do anything. Meanwhile, EVERY attack/threat on Democrats is placed at the R's and Trump's door. You're being Gaslighted people.
It doesn't matter to me where his ideology lies, it's the methods that are the problem, and that goes for whether it comes from the right or the left. Everybody doesn't fit into neat boxes. These guys seem to be a hybrid of bullshit.
Interestingly though they talked about doing things that Antifa has actually already done, yet the Antifa people who burned down police stations are uncharged are free and these guys are in jail. Seems a little lopsided to me.
Probable? Actionable? Thought crime?
Any government is their #1enemy no matter who runs it. This insane BS has always been a precursor to dictatorship.
The left-right, totalitarian-anarchist nexus is leftist.
Anybody know what the other flag is?
Wow. Has Ann ever heard of a false dichotomy? Were German National Socialists extremists of the right or left??
The obvious answer is: BOTH!!!
Symbolic clothing seems to be appealing and meaningful to the under 30 crowd like the armbands in Mao's Cultural Revolution.
Only one political side is telling us that burglary, arson, assault and murder are mostly peaceful protest and thus defending and justifying it. That would make this leftist, or at least the methods are. So far, Trump and Trumpers are only asking for a fair, honest election.
Such a silly debate argument, but ok boomer:
"Does that line indicate that Caserta is an extremist of the right or an extremist of the left? I say left, because he's addressing BLM, saying they need to be more extreme. Why would a righty extremist be anti-police and anti-government? Plus, his call to action is aligned with BLM elements that started attacking Wheeler and created their own autonomous zone?"
"It's this type of impeccable logic that is making me lean towards voting Biden, 2020."
Some stranger says something and you choose a President based on who he doesn't like. Is that supposed to be logical?
It is a common big mistake to believe that extremists have a place on the standard political spectrum. A better spectrum is, Are they willing to kill us for not agreeing with them? Antifa and these guys are on the same Absolutely! end, Kamala Harris is kind of in the middle, decent people are on the other end.
It doesn't matter so much why they're willing to kill us.
"It's this type of impeccable logic that is making me lean towards voting Biden, 2020."
You're going to vote for him anyway.
The issue is not whether we can hang a right or left banner on this guy but rather, whether the majority of the left or right support his agenda. The right would support the removal of Whitmer, but not the method he espouses. The left would support abolishment of the police, and the attacks on precincts. Some far left and far right groups want the abolition of government, but for different reasons. This guy would be more embraced by current lefty groups than righty groups.
You people own these losers. "
You want to explain how Trump supporters are anti-Trump, anti-cop, and violent anarchists? Otherwise you are just saying some more stupid shit.
This guy cannot be a leftist.
Because then he'd only be an idea.
Sometimes, a Hawaiian shirt is just a Hawaiian shirt, unless BJ Clinton has one on.
Kinda like cigars.
I don't consider these guys Biden supporters either. I don't need to in order to see them as anti-Trump.
Regardless, what police station did they burn down again? Who did they assault, what did they steal? Any video of that? Seems to me the FBI has a problem with priorities. They are taking the fire trucks to the wrong house. The one they should be going to would be the one that's actually burning.
A cop shoots a knife-wielding thug who refuses to surrender and we're told that the subsequent rioting and looting is somehow justified. But an elected official keeps her state locked down under dictatorial control for six months, destroying numerous businesses and putting millions into financial uncertainty and hardship, and then blatantly defies the state supreme court when told that her actions are illegal, and we're supposed to be shocked and appalled that some people decided to take matters into their own hands.
This guy hates the police.
So did Timothy McVeigh.
Duke Dan said...
"a Hawaiian shirt, which is typically associated with the boogaloo movement."
BS. It is typically associated with being on vacation. In a relaxing location. Like Hawaii for example.
Or he could be a closeted Jimmy Buffet fan.
The Left is the Right.
Michael K said...Randy Weaver comes to mind. Remember Ruby Ridge? Probably not.
I met Randy Weaver and his daughter, who was a baby, literally in her mother's arms, when FBI sniper Lon Horiuchi shot and killed her mother, Weaver's wife. They killed his 14 year old son too. For nothing. The FBI had entrapped Weaver on a minor charge, had his court date changed and intercepted the notification to Weaver of the change so he wouldn't show up for court and an arrest warrant would be issued by the judge. They could've simply knocked on his door and taken him into custody, but that isn't what they wanted.
Weaver was a former Green Beret. Eventually he was found not guilty of all charges except Failure to Appear. He received over 3 million dollars in compensation for the killing of his wife and son.
Randy Weaver's book The Federal Siege at Ruby Ridge: In Our Own Words
by Randy Weaver and Sara Weaver is worth reading. Available through the Althouse Portal.
I see no indication he is right wing at all, Althouse- literally none. The ear piercings really indicate his politics more than anything he says in the videos. He could walk out ont the Portland streets in one of the nightly demonstrations, and no one around him would bat an eye.
Would be really nice if these dudes would post L or R next to their name and profile pic on their LinkedIn page. You know, like people post their “preferred pronouns” so we know how to refer to them without offense.
But then again, since S/He’s an anarchist, maybe S/He’s just “sticking it to the man!”
These articles show the MSM for the trash heap it’s become. Hawaiian Shirt? OMFG hang the motherfucker! Trump better denounce the electric boogaloo movement and he better do it now. Joe can wait til after the election to tell us how he feels...
This guy is not on the right or the left- neither was the Unabomber, Timothy McVeigh, the Washington DC snipers, or various other criminals and killers. What these guys have in common is a sense of being wronged by others and a desire to get revenge. In their view any problems and challenges they've had aren't just the normal struggles we all have to deal with, but harm that has been inflicted upon them by society as a whole, and they are less interested in fixing the problem than in forcing others to acknowledge the injustice that has been inflicted upon them. Whatever diatribes they have about the government, the economy, religion, race, etc. at the end of the day they choose actions that will draw attention to them and bring pain and fear to others.
Sadly, until we figure out how to make every person in society feel that they are a part of the community, that they are valued and that they contribute to the well being of the community, we are going to have these people in our midst, just as we will have suicide, drive by shootings, etc.
Perhaps a small step toward creating a world without this sort of violence would be to stop blaming these incidents on people who have NOTHING to do with it. I know several young people who advocate anarchy because they have been so disillusioned by the governance they have seen from the right and the left. Newsflash- they are not responsible for the actions of a criminal. I am not a fan a Gov Whitmer's politics, but that does not mean I'm responsible for somebody trying to kidnap her! The perpetrators of this crime probably drink, smoke weed and like chocolate, but we don't assume that passing out chocolate candy at Halloween will turn children to a life of crime.
How about neither right nor left?
Every night for the last six months Antifa and BLM have been antagonizing, burning, beating, stealing, vandalizing and murdering. They have destroyed and or stolen BILLIONS of dollars in goods and property. They have taken dozens of lives. They are threatening millions of citizens of all colors on a daily basis.
Our news media and democrats describe their actions as mostly peaceful. The political leaders of the cities where this is taking place are blaming whites for this violence, the DAs are releasing thousands and thousands of the violent rioters, who have been arrested, without bail and then later dropping all charges. Further, the are arresting and prosecuting citizens who attempt to protect themselves or their property from these violent mobs and then charging them.
The Democratic Party, headed by their presidential and vice presidential candidates, and the News Media are describing this as mostly peaceful and rationalizing and excusing this behavior as being caused by white supremacy, white guilt and systemic racism. The Democratic vice presidential candidate has been openly raising funds to help post bail for the few violent protesters that have been arrested.
Media coverage of all this assumes the accusations of racism are true all the while having to fabricate incidences of it because, quite frankly, it is so rare.
Despite daily incidences of violence and mayhem on the left, our Media demands that the right denounce white supremacy, white nationalism, racism that they have never supported, funded or condoned. And the second the Media and the left find any incident that they can, however tenuously, blame on the Right, we get flood the zone coverage and constant demand for the right to condemn and disassociate themselves from groups and actions they never supported or knew about.
Anne, you have to do some Herculean level lifting to try to tie these clowns to the Right. And make know mistake, that is the only reason that this story has seen the light of day.
"Have you seen the videos of Wauwatosa yet Ann? This is not a game."
They don't actually plan to defund the police. They intend to take over the police. They are training the police, that they must not arrest rioters, and if they do, they will just be released by the Soros DAs. But they should still arrest anyone who resists the rioters, especially if they do so successfully. They don't want to get rid of the bad cops. Their plan is to get rid of the good cops. They want something more like the Gestapo.
This may be our last election.
"Does that line indicate that Caserta is an extremist of the right or an extremist of the left?"
A very interesting question, which, interestingly, is the theme of Arthur Koestler's essay, THE YOGI AND THE COMMISSAR, wherein he compares Stalin and Gandhi. He suggests that back to back, both the extreme left and the extreme right are pretty much the same. Instead of looking at the political spectrum as a linear connection between political extreme, we should, instead, consider the political spectrum as circular with the "ends" simply being where the far right and the far left connect.
For example, here we have a person from the FAR RIGHT plotting to overthrow a duly elected official, while we have Nancy Pelosi trying to do the same from the extreme left.
From Koestler's perspective, they are one and the same.
Perhaps they should be treated in the same way receiving the same justice?
Blogger Aggie said...
Because nothing says Right Wing like drive-thru ear plugs, rad tats, black clothing and a prominent display of Antifa flags. I think you're trying a little too hard.
I do, too.
This sounds more like it.
But now, as they say, the plot thickens. At least two of the six people indicted on Thursday were not right-wing militia members, Trump supporters, or Proud Boys, as Whitmer irresponsibly represented. According to information coming out on Thursday evening, one of the ring-leaders of the plot is a leftist insurrectionist anarchist who hates President Trump. Another, Pete Musico, shares the same philosophy.
It makes you wonder what else we don’t know about Adam Fox, Barry Croft, Ty Garbin, Kaleb Franks, Case Daniel Harris, Brandon Caserta, and others who are up on state charges in Michigan.
I assume more will come out but not by the DNC Media.
like the jackalope up in pittsburgh, or other instances,
Ergo the f*cking asshole is neither right nor left. The so-called middle must be held accountable and must denounce him.
They all seem to be followers of that most famous White Supremacist, Don Ho.
Why else would black people keep complaining about "Ho's"?
At the extreme edges of both political movements lay distinctions without a difference.
JZ- Thanks, I hadn't heard about the FBI shooting and killing a guy in Madison Heights. Strangely, no riots here in metro Detroit.
Here's an article for those of you interested:
https://www.detroitnews.com/in-depth/news/local/oakland-county/2020/10/07/ruby-ridge-madison-heights-fbi-shootout-eric-allport-boogaloo/3629352001/
This guy's family used to know Randy Weaver. The FBI won't release the arrest warrant and won't explain why they tried to arrest him in a public space if he's so dangerous.
Anyway, in that article, Boogaloo is described thusly:
Boogaloo is a loosely organized movement that brings together people with different ideologies, everything from the Black Lives Matter movement to white supremacists and anti-government extremists, said Jon Lewis, a research fellow at the Program on Extremism at George Washington University.
So neither right nor left, but both.
Also, Whitmer tried to blame Trump's rhetoric for these guys, but they started (and squashed) their plan to kidnap her before he tweeted the quick-to-blame "liberate Michigan!" Tweet.
But you know, she's all about bringing people together.
Whatever happened to William Garfield Bilbrough IV, who was charged with giving a ride to a naughty Canadian?
Sounds like a cheap attempt by democrats to deflect and blame Trump for political reasons. The other problem is this "militia" looks about as threatening and capable as the Apple Dumpling gang with Tim Conway and Don Knotts.
Do you know what is the essence of 'conservative'? Not blowing things up.
Paranoid nutcases are on a different graph from the rest of us.
sometimes people on the left like say james burnham, went from trotskyite to staunch pragmatists (the machiavellians) to prominent conservative at national review, but that look an evolution of about 15 years, this one just doesn't fly,
in my country's example, masferrer was on the left in the spanish civil war but by the 50s he had ended up as an auxiliary with batista, some of the leading anticastro activists like huber matos, or the founder of alpha 66 were on the left,
This guy is definitely a Tea Party supporter. Definitely.
Just wait until the democraticals/LLR-lefties start claiming islamic supremacists in the Middle East are Trump supporters!
Howard: "You people own these losers."
Yes, Howard, who spent months and months and months praising his Normandy-Invader-like antifa heroes only to turn on a dime and pretend he never said any such thing and that his Normandy-Invader-like antifa heroes never existed, would now like for those on the other side to claim ownership of an anti-Trump anti-cop anarchist right after Trump has received the endorsement of every single police officers association and group over the last 3 months!
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
I also find it amusing (not) that when a left wing wackado does something stupid, well that was a one off and in no way reflects "general" left wing positions. On the other hand any right wing wackado (or in fact any "not obviously left wing) is presented as indicative of ALL right wing taking persons and ALL must specifically repute whatever the person did and their actions EVERY SINGLE TIME.
That is why over 100 days of cities burning as a result of pantifa and BLM rioting is nothing to report and is "mostly peaceful" and is "a few agitators" despite the top people in the DNC approving and promoting these actions.
Your last line saves the post and is almost proof positive to its correctness..
But speaking of a map of Michigan, here's the lovely and haunting song "Half Acre" by Hem:
Half Acre
A Tip 'O The Hat to Liberty Mutual for bring my attention to this song through their 'pay it forward' commercial. Now they feature an embarrassing Limu Emu.
The militia types have been active in MI for quite a while. I worked an insurance claim for a lender which was trying to repo a nice car from a guy who asserted that since it was bought with US currency, which he conveniently didn't believe in, their claim on his property was not valid.
Conversely, the existence of such folks would make it easy to concoct a false flag operation. The repetitive TV coverage of this event makes me wonder if this is a test run for an October surprise.
Extreme left and extreme right are two sides of the same coin. They want the same control over others, will use the same methods to achieve it, they just have different reasons they espouse in order to become the tyrants that they wish they could be.
Whatever the actual political beliefs of the "brains" behind the Whitmer kidnapping scheme, we can be assured that "liberals," "progressives" and other State-fellators will use it in an attempt to suppress or discedit not just Trump support, but any kind of anti-statism as well. I'm old enough to remember how the Clintonistas used the Oklahoma City bombing (rather successfully, as I recall) as a way of making good little obedient Tories out of the rest of us. "You object to high taxes and having Big Brother confiscating your guns? Obviiously, then, you're in favor of blowing up school kids! Now sit down and be quiet, peasant!"
Why? Perhaps because Anarchism is overwhelmingly a leftist movement.
Slight correction Ann... when a a grown man calls another man dude, the reference is usually hostile. Men begin relationships with very formal communication patterns. Only after the relationship is established do they feel comfortable with Dude or Bud. "Friend" is ok if the intonation isn't sarcastic.
I don't think people like him fit in the left/right paradigm. They operate at the back of the circle, where there is no separation between the extreme left and the extreme right.
I am continually amazed that the seating arrangements of the French Etats Generale and National Assembly in 1789-90 are how our pundits and idiot media classify political opinions, parties, and movements in 21st Century America.
"Right" and "Left" have almost no meaning in our context, and they mislead because we reify them and all they are is labels for obsolete concepts. Please stop using those words.
It would make far more sense to talk in terms of grouings identified in the "Hidden Tribes" Report of a couple of years ago, or identify groups or ideological/policy leanings by their prominent exemplars (e.g., Trumpists, McConnell Republicans, Biden-Pelosi Dmocrats, Sandernistas, AOC-Omar-Tlaib Squad, etc.) It is more complicated that simple Left-Right, but not as misleading.
Caserta is neither Right (1789 French clergy or nobility?) nor Left (1789 French bourgeois?), and in this case people apply those labels to Caserta only as a way of pigeonholing him on the other "side," in order to malign that "side."
Caserta is a 2020 American nut, and everybody in the sane precincts can just agree on that.
""It's this type of impeccable logic that is making me lean towards voting Biden, 2020."
Some stranger says something and you choose a President based on who he doesn't like. Is that supposed to be logical?"
Wow. I guess a /sarc tag was needed. I thought that was so obvious.
Of COURSE the quote was NOT impeccable logic. Of course the statement, which I took as nonsense will not influence me voting for Biden. THAT, my friends would take a factual October surprise of Biblical proportions.
Blogger JAORE said...
‘"A lefty extremist would, I think, say something closer to "you fucking asshole."
It's this type of impeccable logic that is making me lean towards voting Biden, 2020.’
A. It’s not logic. It’s sarcasm, obviously.
B. The 2020 election is a referendum on “useful idiocy, ” a concept usually attributed to Lenin. If the shoe fits ....
Media & FBI ignore these fine folks ...arrested, released, arrested again, rinse and repeat. They burn stuff, destroy property. over and over... without consequence. They are anti-fascist, you see.
FBI?
hmmm.
re: Me not adding a /sarc tag.... was not my end line, "Sweet baby gee-buzz." a clue?
Rusty? Bagoh? Really, you thought that was a serious comment?
Caserta is a 2020 American nut, and everybody in the sane precincts can just agree on that.
OK, so what is AOC and her three "squad" members?
Dr. Althouse: Does that line indicate that Caserta is an extremist of the right or an extremist of the left? I say right, because he's addressing righties, saying they need to be more extreme. Why would a lefty extremist address someone who believes Trump is his friend? And call him "dude"? "Dude" is a somewhat nice thing to call somebody. A lefty extremist would, I think, say something closer to "you fucking asshole."
More than anything, I'm reminded of Joseph Stack's suicide attack. In neither case are we talking about someone operating from an internally consistent political stance, nor is it apparent political change was their aim. From the reporting, what appears to have been significant about Governor Whitmer was that she's highly visible, not that she's a Democrat, or even particularly that she's the Governor.
Blogger D.D. Driver said...
This guy hates the police.
So did Timothy McVeigh.
Typical, McVeigh hated the feds that took down the Waco encampment, at least in part, because the BATF was in the middle of budget hearings. Police had nothing to do with that and there is no evidence that he thought so.
>>They all seem to be followers of that most famous White Supremacist, Don Ho.
> Why else would black people keep complaining about "Ho's"?
I see you have cracked the code, but so many others still think "Tiny Bubbles" is about champagne.
But you and I know The Truth! It's a marching song for Floral Shirt Goose Stepping!
Anarchist flag gets overruled by Dude. Preparing for your winter skating, huh? Especially on thin ice.
DHS Homeland Threat Assessment Omit Antifa
>>Media & FBI ignore these fine folks ...arrested, released, arrested again, rinse and repeat. They burn stuff, destroy property. over and over... without consequence. They are anti-fascist, you see.
Bleachy,
It's not like they committed some horrible federal crime, like using the wrong knot for a NASCAR garage door pull. That required *15* FBI agents.
And maybe a Boy Scout or a sailor to untie it.
I don’t know if Gretchen Whitmer will be voted out in 2022, but she should be. For all the confusion and agony that Michigan residents have been put through by the arbitrary whims of this nitwit, the state’s deaths from Covid are nothing to brag about. All that loss, and nothing gained.
I think at the end of this, we are going to see that the virus pretty much behaved like a virus, that the death statistics were distorted through perverse financial incentives in the medical system, and that the Covid-19 toll includes deaths from pneumonia, flu, and Covid-19.
I think the average age of a person dying in the Covid list is 78, which is the overall life expectancy in the US. Should that tell us something?
The lockdowns were a huge over-reaction to this, and the insanity continues. People under 65 should live their normal lives, and people over 65 need to be thoughtful about what they do. Whitmer will never agree to that proposition. She wants power.
JAORE: obviously what you posted was very believable to those people... it made logical sense and it probably shook the foundations of their tenuous belief in the con of trump.
Rob Schneider details the many uses of “dude”... https://youtu.be/77v_Q0mhbZU
Oh my, we wear Aloha Friday garb at work; are we...
A gun loving anarchist with stretched out earlobes - pretty much the standard Antifa rioter.
D.D. Driver said...
This guy hates the police.
So did Timothy McVeigh.
That's not true. McVeigh's actions were in direct response - by his own admission - to the actions of the FBI/ATF at Ruby Ridge and Waco; he saw them as retaliation against the federal government killing innocent women and children. He had no general animosity to municipal police departments.
The Michigan conspirators on the other hand, are expressing the Antifa line of all (local) police and being the enemy, i.e., they are aligned with Antifa stances.
So, your strawman is officially up in smoke.
Ann how could you miss his earlobes?
Those scream....well when I lived in Cali....pot smoking barista.
I think this guy was an equal opportunity recruiter. So this bit might be when he was talking to one audience, but we do not have the full picture.
There target to kidnap was a Democrat but they wanted to do it during voting on Nov. 3rd which would not have helped Trump at all.
Martin wrote:
'I am continually amazed that the seating arrangements of the French Etats Generale and National Assembly in 1789-90 are how our pundits and idiot media classify political opinions, parties, and movements in 21st Century America."
Indeed. As I've often pointed out, the Ancien Regime's "right wing" consisted of the pro-Establishment authoritarians. I you want to see authoritarians today, look to your "left."
Howard said...
You people own these losers. It must be disquieting to feel like you are looking in the mirror at the michigan militia 13 mugshots.
Democrats are just stupid people.
A. It’s not logic. It’s sarcasm, obviously.
B. The 2020 election is a referendum on “useful idiocy, ” a concept usually attributed to Lenin. If the shoe fits ....
No shit.... So was my reply, obviously. Useful yerself.
Geez, three in a row...
When I see a Hawaiian shirt I associate it with....Hawaii.
AA - thank you for posting what these "Anarchists" believe via "Townhall". Interesting we did not hear a similar piece of data from NBC nor will we get any of this data from the rest of the Liberal Press? I might sound bad saying this - but we need to investigate all of the MSM. Our country cannot survive when we get a monopoly narrative/opinion so one-sided. A "free press" only works if the data disseminated is done with facts not propoganda narratives to favor one side over the other side.
He's out at the far edge of the spectrum where the two ends wrap around and meet each other.
Anarchists are not " right wing" not even close. Recheck your definition of right wing.
Looks like at least one of them were Trump supporters. Why would a leftist want to harm the Governor, think about it, it doesn’t make any sense,
“One of the key suspects in the case, Adam Fox, described Whitmer as a "this tyrant b---c' for not allowing gyms to reopen in the summer and urged his co-defendants to “do something” about her, according to conversations recorded by an FBI informant.
On social media, Fox frequently posted language that appeared to encourage violence against Democratic politicians, calling them traitors and criminals, while demonstrating his support for Trump, BuzzFeed News reported. In May 2018, for instance, he reportedly tweeted, “Trump’s a winner and the US will continue to win under real leadership!!””
https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ny-some-suspects-in-plot-to-kidnap-whitmer-tied-to-boogaloo-20201009-6xdf2sty5vefrkmary6vgf3srq-story.html?fbclid=IwAR1EpQWocxxfs4J2cGqhjR-2P9MsZSUu_Uyqo4Y8cDUDm7AszvkesYXr-B4
More pro Trump connections.
“In a social profile verified by date of birth, Croft wore a tricorn hat and a sweatshirt with the insignia of the Three Percenters, an armed anti-government movement. Croft's online footprint shows what appears to have been years of involvement in armed movements.
In 2016, while he was living in Wilkesboro, North Carolina, Croft pushed pro-Trump conspiracy theories that absolved Russia of meddling in the 2016 election, calling investigations of Trump an "uprising."
Croft added that he would be willing to fight for his beliefs and that he would be joined by millions of others, adding that they had more firearms than their perceived enemies.
A second law enforcement action Thursday involved state charges against seven more members of the Wolverine Watchmen.
The men, identified as Paul Bellar, Shawn Fix, Eric Molitor, Michael Null, William Null, Pete Musico and Joseph Morrison, face an array of state charges, including counts of threat of terrorism or material support of terrorist acts.
Musico had a YouTube channel on which he railed against Whitmer and praised Trump.
"So sick and tired of hearing about Donald Trump, Donald Trump, Donald Trump. Well guess what?" Musico said, pointing to a Trump 2020 hat on his head. "I hope that triggered a whole lot of people."
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/whitmer-conspiracy-allegations-tied-boogaloo-movement-n1242670
Inga said...
Looks like at least one of them were Trump supporters. Why would a leftist want to harm the Governor, think about it, it doesn’t make any sense,
Hmm, because she's a totalitarian b!tch?
Because she shut down the lefties favorite business to go to?
Really, Inga, did you never learn how to think?
(Oops. originally posted this in the wrong post's comments)
Here's the relevant point, Althouse:
He's not a Trump supporter.
He could not have been encouraged to attack Whitmer by anything Trump said.
Any attempt to blame this on Trump, in any way shape or form, is illegitimate
Everything else is wanking
Blogger Inga said...
"...Looks like at least one of them were Trump supporters. Why would a leftist want to harm the Governor, think about it, it doesn’t make any sense..." 10/9/20, 3:49 PM
Inga, really - "...Why would a leftist want to harm the Governor...". This comment tells me two things - 1) you love the political narrative pushed by that crook Whitmer; or 2) you're completely ignorant about how much money from say, big business, (Elites) got Whitmer elected.
"Anarchists" don't care about Leftist/Rightist - they view everybody in power as the enemy! Being Governor of Michigan is a perfect fall person for their philosophy. Tell me if any "Elites" where spared the guillotine during the "French Revolution". BTW, "Robespierre" doesn't count, since he co-opted the movement for himself.
“One of the key suspects in the case, Adam Fox, described Whitmer as a "this tyrant b---c' for not allowing gyms
Obviously he shouldn't have plotted to physically harm her, but Whitmer deserves criticism for this. She has enjoyed her tyranny.
The Supreme Court of Michigan said she has overstepped, and now the Democratic Party of Michigan is pushing two Supreme Court candidates who would continue Whitmer's strong woman policies.
Ah, Inga saw readering is challenging her title of Queen of Lying Communist Bozos and rushed back her to defend the title. And on a topic so dear to Inga's shiveled heart, the boogaloos!
How inconvenient for deeply stupid Inga then that the WaPo itself has reported this:
Lawrence Hurley
@lawrencehurley
“One of alleged plotters, 23-year-old Daniel Harris, attended a Black Lives Matter protest in June, telling the Oakland County Times he was upset about the killing of George Floyd and police violence.”
Boom! There goes the sandcastle made of shit Inga keeps trying to construct.
What this is proof of: "Liberals get the bullet too." The people Inga thinks are on her side will slit her throat in the end, because that's how revolutions work.
Today Instapundit is "calling Jussie Smollett" on the Whitmer Kidnapping Plot. I wouldn't be a bit surprised.
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