Here's Tersigni's Twitter feed, but it's not entirely examples of the meme explained and explained in the article. Here are 2 examples:
"there probably just weren't any qualified women for the job" pic.twitter.com/RwHIEDbc7u— nicole tersigni (@nicsigni) May 7, 2019
From the article:
“The mansplainer explains things in a condescending way,” Tersigni said. “Their thoughts are always unsolicited. Nobody is asking for them. One of my favorite jokes that I used in the thread and also in the book for the mansplainer is, ‘Let me explain your lived experience.’”It's a nice social-media phenomenon that led quickly to the sale of a book, so congratulations to Tersigni. But she started her project last May. The idea of putting comic captions on old paintings certainly isn't her invention. It's the mainstay of the subreddit r/trippinthroughtime, which has 3.5 million followers and has been around since 2013. And the repurposing of old art for modern comic purposes was the method of the animation in in Monty Python (1969 to 1974):
Describing his aesthetic for the Monty Python animations, Gilliam said: "Mine was just anything I could lay my hands on, that was free and cheap and that I could cut up and move around. I used to always go down to the National Gallery (in London) when I was running out of ideas and I just wandered through and in fifteen minutes, I had a million ideas... Basically, I communicated with paintings, had a little dialogue with a painting, either taking the piss out of it or treating it with respect. Those things just intrigued me.... [Terry Jones and I] are huge Bruegel and Bosch fans," Gilliam said. "(It's a) kind of a medievalist view of the world which seems to me to be a lot more alive and interesting than most of the iconography of our modern world."... But if the vibrant worlds of 16th century Dutch painters Hieronymus Bosch and Pieter Bruegel provided inspiration for the Pythons' imagery and set pieces, other art movements were less helpful to their vision. "The Renaissance was a disaster," Jones said. "Art suddenly got po-faced. You know, it was all being paid for by these fascistic dictators in Italy."...ADDED: "Po-faced" is short for poker-faced, and it means "Characterized by or assuming an expressionless or impassive face; poker-faced; (hence) humourless, disapproving" (OED). It's colloquial and British. Oldest use:
1934 C. Lambert Music Ho! iii. 191 I do not wish, when faced with exoticism, to adopt an attitude which can best be described by the admirable expression ‘po-faced’.
পোস্টগুলি
৮৬টি মন্তব্য:
Other women want you to fail. That's why they don't set you right.
The guy on the train was at the bachelor party.
“The mansplainer explains things in a condescending way,” Tersigni said. “Their thoughts are always unsolicited. Nobody is asking for them.
I love how people try to put a polite spin onto a shitty idea or statement. In practice, "mansplaining" means a man said something to a woman that she later decided she didn't like. "Condescending" has nothing to do with it. And sometimes the thing the man says is directly in response to a question the woman asked. That part's just a lie.
"Mansplaining" is a sexist term whose sole purpose is to silence men's voices.
Note to men: If you feel compelled to direct a woman backing up a vehicle, don't make little whirly motions with your finger. Just point in the direction you want her to go. Thank you.
It’s like a book on the fine art of selecting a tie written by a consortium of the colorblind. Whatever, as long as they have viable pussies, people will listen to them.
Hah! The second painting has that same harassed look on the woman's face as that of the little girls that Joe Biden is always feeling up.
Groping Joe Biden
"old paintings"
Now womansplain to me the dearth of great paintings by women.
Althouse posts a piece on alleged male social transgressions. Must be a day ending in Y.
"the experience of women harassed by concern trolls, 'sexperts' and more"
And more, even! The horror!
What do lamentations about this egregious, intolerable "harassment" tell us about the prospects for gender equality?
Internet women usually explain stuff by insult and belittlement. The devotion to rational and evidence based inquiry which has provided the comfort and security in which women live in the West has no place in 'womensplaining.’ I see women constantly described as “whip smart” in fiction, which is what this is, but it seems that the writing advice of “show us, don’t tell us” is generally overlooked.
Fortunately outside of the bubble of the internet, there are plenty of women who reject the nonsense of dismissing the contribution of men to this society. If a man believed that the only women available to him were the women bloviating on the subject of their resentments on the internet, he might fall into despair, not just for himself, but the human race.
Both of those pictures, BTW, she uses the captions to hijack the power of female beauty depicted. I guess beauty is code for "whip smart."
Maybe women think that beauty = brains because men so seldom question the nonsense that comes out of the mouths of beautiful women.
“The mansplainer explains things in a condescending way,” Tersigni said. “Their thoughts are always unsolicited. Nobody is asking for them.
Now do wives! What, what? "That's not funny?" Oh OK, then do "Karens"! What, what? That is not funny either? Oh, I see. It is only funny when something done by lots of different people is highlighted by women, when it is done by men. I keep misplacing my rule book, my bad...
Good. I bet she sells about 25 books, and that's more than I will ever sell. So yay for her and her book publisher.
Mansplainers are talking about what interests them, like how things work. Women don't care about how stuff works.
Progressivists love to use superfluous words to enhance the impact of a pet concept. Thus your experience becomes your "lived" experience, even though any experience you have is "lived" because you are alive. Person of color vs colored person is another one.
They should tax women an extra .25% for a humor deficit. They try to b e funy and a few are. But most do schlock like this. I will consider it payoff for the draft.
Men are conditioned to come to the aid of a woman who looks sad or confused.
They are also conditioned to leave similarly-looking men well enough alone.
Unfortunately, some women look perpetually sad or confused.
It’s like a different version of Resting Bitch Face.
Is this the kind of shinola they talk about in "women's studies" classes? Do they ever talk about nags and henpeckers, and how to not become one?
" don't make little whirly motions with your finger. “
These people do the same thing to men, don’t blame all of us.
"Mansplainers are talking about what interests them, like how things work. Women don't care about how stuff works.”
Exactly.
Did you happen to notice Tersigni's Twitter avatar photo?
"Po-faced" is short for poker-faced, and it means "Characterized by or assuming an expressionless or impassive face; poker-faced; (hence) humourless, disapproving" (OED).
"The last time I saw a mouth like that it had a hook in it."
How many times had I tried to mansplain to my ex-wife how to switch the heat pump from heat to air conditioning mode so she could do it herself when all she wanted was for me to do it for her? Women resent mansplaining same reason nobody likes uppity servants.
My favorite real-life example was one I saw on Twitter, where a woman had been watching a baseball game and sent out a tweet asking why there appeared to be a "KKK" sign prominently displayed in the outfield.
Someone responded to her that baseball identifies a strikeout with a "K", and it's routine to display a K for each strikeout the pitcher gets. The "KKK" she saw just indicated the pitcher had three strikeouts at that point in the game.
Her response to that was, "Gee, thanks for mansplaining, random baseball fan."
She literally asked for an explanation, but still considered it "mansplaining" when she got one.
I talk to men about a variety of topics and I can't think of a time anything was "mansplained" to me. Do I not notice? Do they perceive me as informed and competent (and so not needing guidance)? Or do I listen to and appreciate their insight, rather than whine that he has the nerve to challenge my beliefs?
My first guess was that it was a Northern Renaissance take on Phryne before the Areopagus, then I learned it was Christ and the Woman taken in Adultery. How richly textured is the irony! A womansplaining use of a painting depicting Jesus christsplainig to a group of men that they had to interrogate their own mansplainig about a woman's sexuality.
Women run most things these days and don't do much of a job.
Fixing the errors will be a huge job once the war is over.
Here’s a mansplanation:
“Why did God give woman a pussy? So men would talk to them.”
It’s remarkably close to the evolutionary reality that of all the great apes, only female humans remain sexually active even when they are not in a fertile part of the cylcle. This feature just happens to work very well to keep a man around, constantly mate guarding to ensure that he is raising his own kids, feeding and protecting her and her children.
Mockturtle. Note to men: If you feel compelled to direct a woman backing up a vehicle, don't make little whirly motions with your finger. Just point in the direction you want her to go. Thank you.
My mother in the 1950's and 69's was much better at backing up the car with the 30 ft trailer attached that we all lived in....this was our home. When it came to parking the trailer....she was the go to person.
If my Dad, who was OK at it, was doing it, she would guide him in with those "whirly motions".
Those are universal to tell the person driving which way they need to turn their wheel and the faster the motion that you need to turn it more. The turning of the car steering wheel when backing up gives you the opposite motion for the trailer. Turn wheel to the left, back up and the rear of the trailer goes right
This applies to trailers and not a motor home ,as you have...obviously. But people who are used to guiding trailers can't always get over the hand motions.
There are another whole set of hand motions to guide the driver backing up to be able to correctly position the ball on the receiver under the trailer hitch.
I can't back up a trailer for shit.
There....I womansplained it for you. 😁
“The mansplainer explains things in a condescending way,” Tersigni said. “Their thoughts are always unsolicited. Nobody is asking for them.
...on Twitter, where a woman had been watching a baseball game and sent out a tweet asking why there appeared to be a "KKK" sign
As SeanF mentions, what about 'unsolicited explanations' that are EXPLICITLY asked for?
I 'think' the REAL DEFINITION of mansplaining is:
"receiving an answer, that makes you feel Stupid; for asking your question"
SeanF said...
She literally asked for an explanation, but still considered it "mansplaining" when she got one.
8/10/20, 8:13 AM
A) it might have been OK if a woman had responded though it would have been worded differently, as in twice as long and full of "feel good" words
B) she was actually only looking for validation, not reason
This is similar to the other "woman" rule (as with all rules it is not 100%) in that when they tell you a problem, they don't actually want a solution. They just want "someone" to listen to them. When given that reply to your perfectly valid response [to the problem] you were just told, do NOT reply with "If you just wanted to be heard and were not looking for advice why didn't you just tell your problem to your cat?". That does NOT normally end well.
Actually, i'd appreciate it, if a woman could explain something to me?
Women are a Majority of people
Women are a Majority of registered voters
Women are a Majority of VOTERS
Women are a Majority of College Students
Women receive a Majority of all College Scholarships
Women are a Majority of Professors
Women are an OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of teachers
HOW is it, that These Women are an Oppressed Minority?
Competent women are very sexy, bitter women are not.
'Let me explain your lived experience.'
Nobody ever said that, and Real Men wouldn't use the phrase "lived experience" in any case except a la the Piranha Brothers.
Backing up a long trailer is not difficult. A little practice and you'll redily get the feel for it.
But backing up a short trailer with a long truck? That's very difficult to do. Think of a long sign truck pulling a compressor on a two-wheel trailer. It took me a long time to be able to back that up without it jack=knifing.
It could be that women mansplain, too. But who listens?
The concept of "lived experience" has been stretched to excuse lots of bad behavior.
Any concept that can be so easily misused is a bad concept.
Therefore, I now take "lived experience" to mean "I am an idiot who wants an excuse."
The woman on the train is holding her phone. Is it dead or has she misplaced her earbuds?
I was friends with a retired Military Intelligence officer, who worked as a high level university purchasing administrator. He'd spent 20+ years all over the world handling millions of dollars in cash and equipment, served covertly and overtly in war zones, broken security at fortified military bases to steal information, and on and on. Then, in retirement, he learned more law about state government than anyone I ever knew of, in order to handle hundreds of millions in state and university purchases legally and efficiently.
I once asked him why he was friends with me, a lowly grad student. "I need help moving heavy furniture once in a while," he mansplained with a smile. And I'm a guy.
Progressivists love to use superfluous words to enhance the impact of a pet concept. Thus your experience becomes your "lived" experience, even though any experience you have is "lived" because you are alive.
I have lived experience in real time.
Anyone that thinks "Mansplaining" is limited to men has never had a female boss.
“The mansplainer - one person, presumably male - explains things in a condescending way,” Tersigni said. “Their thoughts - hold on there, sweetie, you need help figuring out how pronouns work.
It's all so tiresome.
policraticus said...
"My first guess was that it was a Northern Renaissance take on Phryne before the Areopagus, then I learned it was Christ and the Woman taken in Adultery."
Thanks. I was wondering what that was about. Phryne is kind of cool, too.
Someone mansplain to me what's going on in that picture of Jesus.Is Mary Magdalene flashing him?
I should know better to retract my opinions from a woman minded article.
Especially going on 41 years of age and being male.
I think that mansplaining has become the metaphorical protogonist word instead of a connected view of an antagonist word.
The key sentence to me was ,
" It's a nice social-media phenomenon that led quickly to the sale of a book, so congratulations to Tersigni. "
Positive empowerement to re-inforce a healthy self esteem.
Much confusion and distraction is possible before such success.
Better if not probable.
Also, the line drawn within constructive critisism post such an investment that has more than money value for the individual.
Congratulations indeed.
As Freud said, "If they didn't have pussies, there'd be a bounty on 'em."
Talk about men from Mars and women from Venus. That has been my lifelong lived experience--as others have noted, the LAST thing a complaining woman (who is not his boss--BT,DT) wants is a solution to her problem.
Best just to nod, sound concerned, and skedaddle.
Narr
Especially if they're crying--RUN AWAY!
She seems like a passive-aggressive nagger. No man is asking her to nag them, and yet here she is : )
How come we never hear about the man taken in adultery? Must have been one, right?
Narr
Somebody Scripturesplain it for me
"Those are universal to tell the person driving which way they need to turn their wheel and the faster the motion that you need to turn it more”
Before you explained it to me, I always thought that they were the universal tell of a crashing bore who always wanted to appear to be the master of every situation but had no actual idea of how they were perceived. It’s kind of an insult to do it without being asked, but I guess the best way to deal with it is to just look at the direction his finger or hand is moving at the bottom and use that for direction guidance since the person doing it is likely beyond hope, his parents having done such a shitty job.
I don't have access to the Online OED, but other sources say the OED lists the etymology as uncertain, with "poker-faced" just one of several possibilities.
I find that etymology highly unlikely. "Po," in British English, means "chamber pot." It's unlikely that "poker" would be shortened to "po," since it has those other associations. More likely that "po-faced" came from "po" itself. Plus, "poker-faced" is an Americanism. Poker was not that popular a card game in Britain.
Good article here:
https://notoneoffbritishisms.com/2013/01/24/po-faced/
Bonus: 1940's era British riddle:
Q. What did Hitler say when he fell out of the bed?
A. At last I'm in po-land.
"Mansplaining" -- One of the great farcical constructs of our time. Amongst some heavy competition.
Should we mansplain to her why she can't get a date?
"Mansplainers are talking about what interests them, like how things work. Women don't care about how stuff works.",
You got it in one. With few exceptions, men are interested in how things work...cars, clocks, televisions. And some men even possess an incredibly detailed knowledge of arcane subjects...sometimes the result of highly-functioning autism (don't ask me how I know)...
When I am boring someone to death about the Glasshütte-style finishing on a three-quarter plate watch movement, I like to think of it as 'education' and not 'harassment.' : )
Someone mansplain to me what's going on in that picture of Jesus.Is Mary Magdalene flashing him?
Sure. You look at the original thread to see if someone identifies the artwork. Then there is this thing called google that you can use.
The painting is by Jobst Harrich and is about the woman caught in the act of adultery. Hence the partial undress.
Apparently the exposed breast(s) is a traditional artistic convention for this subject, at least by some artists.
Here Jesus is "mansplaining" that the men who, in their male power privilege, want to kill the woman are hypocrites and He is calling for justice on her behalf.
But by all means, let's have our intellectual betters among the progressive set tell us how we should use the scene to mock and joke.
Idiots. Jesus calls for exactly what they CLAIM they want, and they respond with contempt and derision.
>>mockturtle said...
Note to men: If you feel compelled to direct a woman backing up a vehicle, don't make little whirly motions with your finger. Just point in the direction you want her to go. Thank you.<<
Yeah, I've tried that too. Believe me, it's - incredibly - not foolproof.
I believe that to be all about the woman, understandably I guess, not being quite able to trust the man's pointing over her intuitive reliance on her own - scientifically known to be inferior - ability in spatial relationships.
Outraged feminist: “Why is there a KKK racist sign here?”
Baseball fan: “That means three strikeouts”
OF: ”Thanks for mansplaining” *pic of braying jackass head*
“ Talk about men from Mars and women from Venus. That has been my lifelong lived experience--as others have noted, the LAST thing a complaining woman (who is not his boss--BT,DT) wants is a solution to her problem.”
Agreed. But I think that maybe a better explanation of what is going on is found in the books by linguist Debrah Tannen, including “That's Not What I Meant!” and “You Just Don't Understand”. It is akin to what is said about the Brits and the Americans, two peoples separated by a common language. Men, for the most part, use language to express facts. Women use it to convey emotions, and to build relationships. Mansplaining is male speak conveying facts, but devoid of emotional support and reassurance for the woman, as well as relationship building (and, yes, women do ask other women for help for that latter reason, when they don’t need the help). All she gets is that she is a dumb shit for not knowing something, but no emotional support that none of us knows everything. What the guy hears is that she wants some information, which he provides. The feeling like a dumb shit part is that the guy doesn’t provide emotional support, along with the facts. But all he heard from her was that she wanted some information, and that is what he provided. Guys would be insulted if they asked for information, and got emotional support, along with the information. That just isn’t how we think.
"As Freud said, 'If they didn't have pussies, there'd be a bounty on ‘em.’"
August 2020, I am memorializing the time when I first heard the above joke, because I intend to use it wherever it is called for.
" Any concept that can be so easily misused is a bad concept.
Therefore, I now take "lived experience" to mean "I am an idiot who wants an excuse." "
Peer pressure concepts, that become habitual mistakes through some time can be rewired.
I tried the reverse mantra of "I'm an excuse who wants to be an idiot."
There are very good comments from other men that can strengthen a healthy self esteem. Bypassing self doubt into focus.
This book project started in May of this year. That is a 4 month success.
Men think that F. Scott Fitzgerald had it right, applying his God given and finely honed through hard work to create a great piece of art, when women know that the Zelda Fitzgerald school of literary criticism has won the day.
"maybe
if I take my tit out
they will stop explaining my own joke back to me"
Alternate Interpretation: "Maybe if I show some nipple they'll stop listening to Jesus and pay me some attention".
Whirly motions? I don't know what that means. Many women can't parallel park or back up correctly. Evidently, they'll get it, after numerous tries. of course, I never help out unless asked, I usually just look on with wry amusement.
Some people just need help with the direction, but others can't understand speed control might be vital. They either go too fast when backing up and need a hand telling them to "Slow down" or they creep along at 1 foot/minute afraid they will hit something.
The women in my family never required assistance, but then it all about practice making perfect. My wife doesn't like driving anything.
policraticus said...
My first guess was that it was a Northern Renaissance take on Phryne before the Areopagus, then I learned it was Christ and the Woman taken in Adultery. How richly textured is the irony! A womansplaining use of a painting depicting Jesus christsplainig to a group of men that they had to interrogate their own mansplainig about a woman's sexuality.
8/10/20, 8:24 AM
There was a man and a woman
by Stephen Crane
Sister Projects.sister projects: Wikidata item.
This poem was published in 1905 in the volume The Black Rider & Other Lines.
i
There was a man and a woman
Who sinned.
Then did the man heap the punishment
All upon the head of her,
And went away gaily.
ii
There was a man and a woman
Who sinned.
And the man stood with her.
As upon her head, so upon his,
Fell blow and blow,
And all people screaming, "Fool!"
He was a brave heart.
iii
He was a brave heart.
Would you speak with him, friend?
Well, he is dead,
And there went your opportunity.
Let it be your grief
That he is dead
And your opportunity gone;
For, in that, you were a coward.
This is all part of the feminist party line. don't compliment women. Don't help them out. don't "Mansplain" things. Well, some women like compliments. And some like someone helping them and explaining things. you can't get it perfect. Sometimes me are going to over-explain or dominate when its not required. But this is an attempt to get men to NOT help and NOT compliment - EVER.
BTW, the man on the train is an obvious "Masher". The woman should have punched him in the face, not sat their with a "po face".
BTW, I agree with RH. Most women have zero curiosity about how THINGS work. They are more interested in how PEOPLE work.
I am often as 'guilty' as men in offering facts, information and advice to my daughters when what they want is emotional support, as I'm inclined to want to try to solve problems and fix things.
Guys would be insulted if they asked for information, and got emotional support, along with the information. That just isn’t how we think.
This goes along with a book I gave my wife 40 years ago. She didn't read it and we eventually got divorced. It was called "Why Men Are the Way They Are", and is still in print.
After 25 years we got back together.
And lets be honest: When a man pours out his concerns [re work, finances, personal] to a woman he is looking for emotional support, not facts or advice.
Openidname said...
Bonus: 1940's era British riddle:
Q. What did Hitler say when he fell out of the bed?
A. At last I'm in po-land.
Continuing with Britishisms.....
There's a river in Italy that's named Po.
British comedian Spike Milligan, in his WWII memoirs, recounts hearing the news that Germans had been driven back across the Po and that a number of their troops had drowned crossing the river. He opined that it must have been hard on German families to receive a telegram saying; "We regret to inform you that your son has drowned in the Po".
Openidname said...
I don't have access to the Online OED, but other sources say the OED lists the etymology as uncertain, with "poker-faced" just one of several possibilities.
I find that etymology highly unlikely. "Po," in British English, means "chamber pot." It's unlikely that "poker" would be shortened to "po," since it has those other associations. More likely that "po-faced" came from "po" itself. Plus, "poker-faced" is an Americanism. Poker was not that popular a card game in Britain.
I can't find a cite, but I am convinced that the diligent linguist and translator, Patrick O'Brien, used the word "po-faced" in the Aubrey-Maturin Saga-it is surely where I learned the word. Therefore, it is highly certain that the word was in currency during the Napoleonic Wars. BTW it's closest equivalent today is probably Resting Bitch Face.
These are funny. Each painting has the woman as focus. No idea what the artist of the time wanted to say, but putting a modern-era title on it is good for a smile.
As a Twitter meme. As a book? Good luck.
When a group of guys is together, explaining things to each other (taxes, plumbing, cars) is how much of the conversation goes. Being a good explainer of things the other guys find useful gives you points. Women don't enjoy this as much. But go ahead, ask the ladies to explain options trading or sump pumps or yard sprinkling systems.
Newlywed me, after work: What time do you think we'll eat?
Lovely bride: Look! I had to defrost the fish and now I have to clean the broccoli and carrots.
Me: Uh, OK. So . . . when do you think we'll eat?
Bride: When it's done! It takes time you know!
Narr
Lesson learned
Remember, if it isn't from the Mansplain region of France, it's only sparkling misogyny.
Stolen.
The second painting needs context, so I will mansplain. A few years ago I came across a book with the wonderful title What Jane Austen Ate and Charles Dickens Knew (available through the Althouse Amazon portal). A young woman in Victorian times would only be traveling alone if she was from a poor family and thus fair game for crude men. This is why Catherine is so mortified when the General puts her on a stagecoach unaccompanied to return home in Northanger Abbey.
Blogger mockturtle said...
"And lets be honest: When a man pours out his concerns [re work, finances, personal] to a woman he is looking for emotional support, not facts or advice."
You overlook the possibility that he would just as soon not discuss it, but he is aware that his wife will have no idea why he does the things he does until he dumps it all out and lets her sort though it.
Jupiter remarks: You overlook the possibility that he would just as soon not discuss it, but he is aware that his wife will have no idea why he does the things he does until he dumps it all out and lets her sort though it.
I think most husbands want a wife [or other S.O.] to be 'on his side' even when others are against him and, yes, even when he's wrong.
Isn't it interesting how some "lived experiences" matter, while some don't?
I mean straight white guys need to sit down and listen, right, because no one cares about their lived experiences. But other lived experiences are supremely important and must be given consideration even over the dictates of logic, statistics, and objective reality itself.
It's almost as though there's some other, unspoken criteria at work.
Look at me. #MeToo #HerToo #SheProgressed
No, I'm not a black hole... whore h/t NAACP. I'm not looking for a friend with "benefits".
Mock Turtle states...."...And lets be honest: When a man pours out his concerns [re work, finances, personal] to a woman he is looking for emotional support, not facts or advice.
8/10/20, 11:21 AM..."
Yes, true, but what about the "woman". Are you saying she doesn't do the same ... and is not "...looking for emotional support...?"
What cave do you live in?
I have to say I love this thread of comments. It's nice to see men standing up for themselves! Gilbar at 8:50...we aren't is the answer to your question IMHO. As a life long female I appreciate men very much. We aren't all the way the vocal "Karen" minority appears.
No, hstad, I agree that women are also looking for emotional support, especially from their husbands. I was merely pointing out that men often need it too. Every time a woman boosts a man's ego she is giving him emotional support, whether or not he wants to acknowledge it as such.
Nichevo, I don't recall "po-faced" in Aubrey/Maturin, but as I make my second read-through I'll be on the lookout!
Narr
And will report
tim in vt,
I can sympathize with your annoyance, but really--what kind of steampunk heat pump did you have, that you had to manually switch it from heating to cooling?
Todd @ 8:41am,
Indeed. "It's Not About The Nail."
TY Narr. It's gotta be there. Where else could I possibly have read it?
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