August 3, 2020

"The coronavirus crisis means that states like Pennsylvania may be counting mail-in ballots for weeks, while President Trump tweets false allegations about fraud...."

"I spoke last week to executives, TV hosts and election analysts across leading American newsrooms, and I was struck by the blithe confidence among some top managers and hosts, who generally said they’ve handled complicated elections before and can do so again. And I was alarmed by the near panic among some of the people paying the closest attention — the analysts and producers trying, and often failing, to get answers from state election officials about how and when they will count the ballots and report results. 'The nerds are freaking out,' said Brandon Finnigan, the founder of Decision Desk HQ, which delivers election results to media outlets. 'I don’t think it’s penetrated enough in the average viewer’s mind that there’s not going to be an election night. The usual razzmatazz of a panel sitting around discussing election results — that’s dead,' he said.... [An] important change that many political types suggest: Get rid of the misleading 'percent of precincts reporting' measure. In states like Pennsylvania and Michigan, it would be easy to have 100 percent of precincts reporting their Election Day results — but have mail-in votes piled up in a warehouse, uncounted...."

From "How the Media Could Get the Election Story Wrong/We may not know the results for days, and maybe weeks. So it’s time to rethink 'election night'" by Ben Smith (NYT).

85 comments:

rehajm said...

Just like last time, they're incorrect in their assumptions about who will be claiming fraud after election day.

rhhardin said...

Get voters to spit on their ballot. Sort the ballots by DNA and remove duplicates. uniq -u in linux.

rhhardin said...

Ballots must come from a human. Another advantage of DNA on the ballot.

Oso Negro said...

Yep. The Democrat sonsabitches will keep re-counting until they have the votes to win. But please, can anyone in this exalted commentariat call to mind an example of a box of Republican ballots being discovered in an elementary school closet?

rhhardin said...

I was watching ABC (Australia) news, because Melbourne just shut down the city and Victoria in general for a secondary spike in Chinese flu, for six weeks. Tasmania has closed its border with everywhere in response, so we'll see how self-sufficient Tasmania is.

ABC being leftist, its channel logo-song (We Are Australia) has lots of Australians shown, but mostly single mothers and a gay couple with a cat (so that you know they're living together and this is their pet).

It seems sort of oppressive for a trademarked free country.

They're stressing that there's no need for panic-buying. That will work well.

wendybar said...

I don't care how much WAPO (or any other progressive propaganda network) lies about this.....voter fraud happened in Patterson New Jersey with mail in voting this year already. Mail in voting is ripe for fraud and the lying Democrats know it, and lie about it anyways because it is the ONLY way they can win. https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/politics/paterson-city-council-vice-president-among-4-charged-with-voting-fraud-in-may-special-election-nj-ag/2484797/

Matthew Heintz said...

If the Demantifa commie rioters keep it up thru 11-3 Trump will declare martial law and the outcome of the election will be won in the streets. Lock And Load Patriots!

Rory said...

"So it’s time to rethink 'election night'"

So it's time to rethink "election." Ideally, everyone involved voting in one place at the same time, now no one voting in the same place at the same time.

Josephbleau said...

How about we just don’t go to mail voting.

PhilD said...

Counting and counting and recounting (*) until they get a win.


(*) And no doubt finding mail in (mail) trunks as necessary

Dave Begley said...

There is ZERO reason for mail voting. If we can go grocery shopping, we can vote.

PJ said...

Would that be Buzzfeed Ben who knows today that the President’s mid-November tweeted allegations will be false?

MayBee said...

Of course he had to get his digs in against Trump, but I'm glad to see this at least. We already saw many primaries taking forever to be announced. I don't know how anybody thinks suddenly changing the way the whole country votes is going to go smoothly.

I would feel better about it if they admitted it is not just Republicans who claim fraud. Who thinks if Trump wins again we are *not* going to hear about Putin helping with fake ballots?

Howard said...

A Bush v Gore wait.

MayBee said...

And I believe it was the Democrats in Florida who wanted to leave the military absentee ballots uncounted in a warehouse in Florida in 2000. So come on. Let's not pretend either side is going to behave.
They are obviously setting the narrative for Republican voters that if Trump loses, whatever they see, they have to just take it.

Howard said...

Josephbeau: Extreme voter suppression is exactly what Putin wants.

MayBee said...

I know I'm spamming the thread, but one more thing.

Barack Obama got into office by challenging the signatures on the petitions of his rivals so they could not get on the ballot. If he knows politicians commit fraud to get on the ballot, what is the argument for saying they wouldn't commit fraud to win the election?

Gahrie said...

Bubble in, paper, ballots; no mail in or absentee ballots except those working for the United States overseas. (diplomats, military, etc)

Turn in the ballot in person, dip a finger in indelible ink.

Ambrose said...

How does he know now that the allegations of fraud will be false?

Quayle said...

Just when big tech has allowed almost every other aspect of our lives to move on-line, there are people advocating that we vote by snail-mail using the post office. The Social networking technology and telecom companies have more data on who actually exists, who they are related to, who are their friends, where they live, where they work, what color shoes they like, and how likely they are to buy a canoe, than most of us can possibly imagine. But somehow we are supposed to not use any of that technology and information to validate a voter. The campaigns will use all of it to identify every potential voter they can. But when it comes time to vote, we will just pretend that we don’t have any of that information. That’s what has me thinking the mail-in thing is a scam. We’re not serious about using what technology we have.

Jersey Fled said...

Once again the NYT proactvely calls Trump a liar for things he hasn't said yet.

Prediction: If Trump loses he will be 100 times as gracious in defeat than Hillary! was. And I might add still is.

Kevin said...

Shorter article: Unfortunately, Trump is right about mail-in voting.

ELC said...

Next best thing for the Left besides a Trump loss would be confusion about who will have won the election.

iowan2 said...

A solutions would be a ban on precincts, or states reporting any counts at all.
The exception would be the number of ballots cast. Transparency on ballots cast would go a long way toward results being honest.
I freely admit I don't understand "ballott harvesting" My take, partisan individuals (paid by campaign,party) go door to door and collect unmailed ballots. There are no "poll watchers" to assure both side this is being done clean and above board. I also see no requirement/need for this activity. Voters that don't cast(mail) their vote is their choice. Why cant this activity be banned?
I welcome an honest debate here on the pros for "ballot harvesting"

traditionalguy said...

Anyone notice that the Dem’s DC operation absolutely depends on control over vote counting. The last election their fix by electronics was removed. This election will be paper based by mail, so they must engineer a paper miscounting method.The experts at doing that have all got old and died. It’s SNAFU.

stevew said...

Look a story advocating for mail in voting at the same time a new poll is out showing Trump in the lead nationally and in battleground states. Coincidence? I think not.

Trump takes lead of Biden

iowan2 said...

Voting by mail is a non-starter for me. Not to be confused with voting by absentee ballot. Requests from registered voters to an active address assures chain of command integrity. Delivering ballotts to 'residence of' screams opportunistic fraud.

wild chicken said...

It would actually be easier to vote a dead person's ballot in person, in my state, because the poll book judge does not check the signature against the ones on file.

So if ID was not required, anyone could vote for anyone else not likely to show up. Must be how the Dems did it in Chicago.

Oh, mail-in vote. In that case the signature would be verified against a record of registrations and address changes. One vote per voter. And dupes would be rejected.

Just helping you all out here.


wild chicken said...

BTW, signature verification was how the fraud was caught in New Jersey.

The system worked.

John henry said...

There was a Supreme decision a few months ago that limits how long they can take to count votes. It also says specifically that no vote postmarked after the day before election (Election day maybe?) can be counted.

President Trump is making a lot of noise about mail in voting. We know that anything he is against the demmies will be all in fore. If he wanted them to be against mail in voting, he should come out in favor of it.

There have also been 2 elections in the past 6 months with mail in voting. In both cases the Republican won.

I wonder how much of this is serious objection and how much is "Don't throw me in the briar patch, Brer Fox! Whatever you do, not the briar patch!!"

And before anyone uses their privilege to question my use of that analogy, ask yourself "Have I really done the work?" And if you have not done the work, please remain silent.

John Henry

stlcdr said...

Aren't they effectively saying they will 'delay the election'?

Josephbleau said...

Oh no, speaking of crono, in England there are no studies showing masks work.

The nation’s top scientists, having examined key data and research, have declared there is no firm evidence to back the use of face coverings. Indeed, they argue that wearing the wretched things may actually hamper the fight against disease.

“‘Face masks in public places are not necessary, based on all the current evidence,’ said Coen Berends, spokesman for the National Institute for Public Health and the Environment. ‘There is no benefit and there may even be negative impact.’…

Holland’s position is based on assessments by the Outbreak Management Team, a group of experts advising the government. It first ruled against masks in May and has re-evaluated the evidence several times, including again last week.

It believes they detract from a clear three-pronged message that has kept deaths from coronavirus down to less than half the rate in Britain: wash hands regularly, maintain social distancing of 1.5 metres and stay at home if suffering any symptoms.”

From the hot air website.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

We already know two things for certain. Trump will lose the election. Trump will claim he lost due to fraud since he is incapable of taking personal responsibility for anything. It is not really all that interesting how this plays out.

Tommy Duncan said...

The chief advantage to Democrats of mail-in ballots is that they delay the final count and provide an extended window for fraud.

Gahrie said...

I wonder how much of this is serious objection and how much is "Don't throw me in the briar patch, Brer Fox! Whatever you do, not the briar patch!!"

I'm old enough to have seen that movie, and it's a tragedy that Disney will never release it in the US again.

tim maguire said...

The election is months away, but The New York Times has already determined that Trump's claims of voter fraud not only will happen, but will be false.

John henry said...


Blogger Gahrie said...

Bubble in, paper, ballots; no mail in or absentee ballots except those working for the United States overseas. (diplomats, military, etc)

Turn in the ballot in person, dip a finger in indelible ink.


Add:

Non-counterfeitable voter ID card (not drivers license but a dedicated card, only for voting)

UV scan of both hands on entering the polling place to make sure it is clean. Then ink the finger

UV scan of both hands on leaving polling place to make sure that the right index finger only, is inked.

But other than that, just like we do it down here in the deep south. 50 years here and never heard any accusations or even jokes about election cheating. Even in very close races.

How do you northerners trust your elections where literally anyone can vote?

John Henry

MartyH said...

Isn't the fact that it may take weeks to count the ballots an indictment of the idea?

Furthermore, even if fraud is demonstrably proven, faithless electors are not allowed.

I can't believe that this is considered the best alternative over, say contactless voting at fast food drive throughs. (Come with you ballot filled in; check in at the first window; drop off at the second.)

John henry said...

BTW: In Puerto Rico the ink is not just any UV ink. It is non-counterfeitable in that it only flouresces at a certain, secret, wavelength.

This should prevent it washing off since if you don't have the right light, which is hard to get unless officially, you can't tell if you washed it off.

John Henry

rehajm said...

Counting and counting and recounting until they get a win

The problem there for Democrats is RBG isn't going to live forever...

Big Mike said...

@Althouse, delete the word “false” and it will be accurate.

TreeJoe said...

How about we do an election week with well spaced vote timing based upon first letter of last name or similar voting on a specific day and ONE WEEK for the mail ins to be received, processed, and QC'd. This lessens sudden burden, allows for more social distancing and spacing, and provides effective time for election conduct and monitoring.

At the end of the week, the loyal election commission reports the results as final.

It's insane that polls close and hours later everyone is supposed to report results uniformly. As if magically every precinct everywhere has 12 hours to perform to perfection.

But the one thing it is unacceptable to do is this: Lessen the quality and integrity of the elections. One person, one vote, verified.

It's. Not. That. Hard.

John henry said...

For the past 4-5 months all we have been hearing is Vaccine, vaccine, vaccine.

Just in the past week or two I've started hearing "Vaccine and therapeutics" I wonder what is meant by therapeutics. I suspect that it means HQL.

I wonder if HQL really works, that Fauci et al know it works (Fauci used to think it works) and we are getting all this FUD about it because there is not enough manufacturing capacity. We are being lied to to reserve it for the needy.

They already did it once with masks. As recently as May Fauci was saying that there was no need for masking, that they did more harm than good. Then we found he was lying to protect the mask supply for health professionals.

Once Kodak gets their $750mm HQL plant online, will we find out that Fauci et al were lying to protect the HQL supply?

Lots of people around the world take it daily for malaria. Billions and billions of doses daily. If they did promote it working for HQL, would we Americans quickly bid up the supply causing shortages for people in India, Africa, South America, Asia etc.

How many brown people would we be willing to walk over to get HQL for Americans? A lot, I suspect.

When I say HQL, I really mean the 3 drug cocktail but am too lazy to write it out.

John Henry

John henry said...

Bill Gates did an interview about kung flu vaccines on CBS last week. They asked him about the side effects.

He said "They are not dramatic but are super painful" as he talked about why people should not be scared of the vaccine. Seems to me that super painful would be a pretty dramatic side effect.

It is why I prefer to take my chances with kung flu rather than a vaccine.

John Henry

Enlighten-NewJersey said...

In New Jersey the fraudsters deposited hundreds of ballots bundled together by rubber bands in a select number of mail boxes. It was the post office that brought this to the attention of the authorities. Had they not bundled the ballots together and perhaps used a few more mail boxes the fraud probably would have gone unnoticed.

I'm Full of Soup said...

If Dems did not believe mail-in voting gave them an edge, they'd fight against it tooth and nail.

Mid-Life Lawyer said...

In the future, all allegations about voter fraud will be false.

Darrell said...

All bets are off when the Democrats start to cheat. They'll wish they had been put in a nursing home in NY State.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

The STARK REALITY of mail in ballots. Forget even the fraud which is 100% going to happen.

The US Post Office is not able to handle the amount of mail/ballots/transactions that a nation wide mailing would bring. They can't handle the mail they have now!

They are not equipped. They don't have the man power. The lost mail. The delays. Not to mention the fraud. There is no way on God's Green Earth that anyone is going to feel that is is a legitimate election. No Republican. No Democrat. The Post Office cannot do this thing. It is a guaranteed failure

We can't even mail an invoice to a customer within the State of California and have it arrive in less than a week. Even to mail from our PO Box to the one just down the row of boxes in the same PO Office!!!!! Sometimes it takes longer. Trying to mail something from one side of our Valley to the other can take a week, because the US Postal Service has closed many of the regional processing centers.

Shhhhhh don't tell. It is a secret from the big bosses in headquarters. Our local PO Offices have a work around. There is a slot for DVD mail and if you put a local piece of mail in it....they will process locally and deliver that day to the PO Box next to yours or the next day to the local address. Or...hand the pieces to the clerk and say...in hushed tones.."local..thank you"

Todd said...

but have mail-in votes piled up in a warehouse, uncounted...."

That should have read: but have extra Democrat mail-in votes piled up in a warehouse, uncounted until we know if we need them...

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...

You keep counting until the D-party wins.

that's not cheating. How dare you!

Fernandinande said...

Get voters to spit on their ballot. Sort the ballots by DNA and remove duplicates. uniq -u in linux.

What about monozygotic twins? Besides, "sort -u" is better since uniq only removes adjacent duplicates.

And besides besides, in a few years all they'll need is the DNA sample itself and use GWA to predict how you would've voted.

I'm Full of Soup said...

A news agency did a test recently and mailed 100 envelopes in Philadelphia. A week later only 97 had been delivered. They did a 2nd test and results were about the same. I'm shocked the story was not covered by WAPO, NYT and all the major liberal TV news channels.

One of my sisters lives in DC area and back in 80's 90's and before he died in 2005, my liberal father complained at how long it took for the DC post office to deliver birthday cards to his grandkids down there. It's been well known that DC post office is a bit of a black hole.

narciso said...

ben smith of the journolist, who published the fraudulent dossier, that chris steele was held liable for, for the accusations against the oligarchs, do tell,

MadisonMan said...

Laws that should be enacted: The winner of the election is declared by Midnight on Election Day. If you vote by mail, you have to vote has to be received by the day before Election Day.

Birkel said...

The Margin of Fraud is harder to overcome in a single evening.

Democratics hope to give themselves weeks to cheat.

stlcdr said...

Blogger Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...
We already know two things for certain. Trump will lose the election. Trump will claim he lost due to fraud since he is incapable of taking personal responsibility for anything. It is not really all that interesting how this plays out.


8/3/20, 7:24 AM


You mean he will follow in Hillary's/The Democrats footsteps, then?

stlcdr said...

Blogger I'm Full of Soup said...
A news agency did a test recently and mailed 100 envelopes in Philadelphia. A week later only 97 had been delivered. They did a 2nd test and results were about the same. I'm shocked the story was not covered by WAPO, NYT and all the major liberal TV news channels.
...


Not only that, the reporter was only able to get the mailed envelopes after repeatedly pushing the mail clerk to go and check, again.

Rory said...

"They don't have the man power. The lost mail."

Have you ever scribbled "Not this address" on a piece of misdelivered mail? Okay, then, have you ever RECEIVED a piece of mail on which someone else had scribbled "Not this address"?

Amadeus 48 said...

Imagine the opportunities!

Amadeus 48 said...

It is not who votes that matters. It is who counts the votes.

Big Mike said...

I grew up near Cook County, Illinois, where Democrats boast about their cheating, and have done so for at least three quarters of a century.

I salute Dave Begley (6:31) for the most succinct explanation of the case against mail-in voting.

Drago said...

The dems are preparing to "Al Franken" the entire nation.

Birkel said...

Who was that guy who predicted Trump would win in2016? Mick?

ARM is the anti-Mick.

Original Mike said...

It's going to be awful.

DanTheMan said...

>> "while President Trump tweets false allegations about fraud...."

So, not one vote has been cast, no tweets have been written yet, but we've already determined that there was no fraud, and Trump will be lying since he will have lost.

Isn't that the definition of election fraud?


MayBee said...

Trump will lose the election. Trump will claim he lost due to fraud since he is incapable of taking personal responsibility for anything. It is not really all that interesting how this plays out.

Maybe so, but will people who believe Trump should have won be lovingly described as The Resistance? Or will they go back to being racist, as people who opposed Obama were?

Michael K said...

Howard said...
Josephbeau: Extreme voter suppression is exactly what Putin wants.


Howard is more confused every week. Putin and Stacey Abrams both have a favorite candidate and it is the same one.

Yancey Ward said...

The concerns about the delay are warrarnted- California apparently never finished counting the Democratic primary this year.

Skeptical Voter said...

There's a lot of blithe confidence in the media world that a Trump tweet about election fraud will be "a false allegation". But there is no concern that an allegation about "voter suppression" will be false. Where you stand depends upon where you sit.

Of course where you stand may also depend upon where you are laid. Voters in coffins get up from the Chicago graveyards each election year, and have done so for decades.

Sam L. said...

I expect the "news"/"media" to lie to us.

Char Char Binks, Esq. said...

Delay election — Orange Man Bad

Delay counting votes — Orange Man Ousted

Narayanan said...

so how come no one is talking about holding Election Day over multiple stretch 24 hours since everyone is not working - stretch it out for a week or so?

I believe congress can and have suspend the clock to stretch out legislative day?!

officiousintermeddler said...

Anne missed the buried lede in this NY Times story, where the Democrats wargamed secession and a military coup in the event that they do lose the vote:

[A] group of former top government officials called the Transition Integrity Project actually gamed four possible scenarios, including one that doesn’t look that different from 2016: a big popular win for Mr. Biden, and a narrow electoral defeat, presumably reached after weeks of counting the votes in Pennsylvania. For their war game, they cast John Podesta, who was Hillary Clinton’s campaign chairman, in the role of Mr. Biden. They expected him, when the votes came in, to concede, just as Mrs. Clinton had.

But Mr. Podesta, playing Mr. Biden, shocked the organizers by saying he felt his party wouldn’t let him concede. Alleging voter suppression, he persuaded the governors of Wisconsin and Michigan to send pro-Biden electors to the Electoral College.

In that scenario, California, Oregon, and Washington then threatened to secede from the United States if Mr. Trump took office as planned. The House named Mr. Biden president; the Senate and White House stuck with Mr. Trump. At that point in the scenario, the nation stopped looking to the media for cues, and waited to see what the military would do.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Narayanan said... so how come no one is talking about holding Election Day over multiple stretch 24 hours since everyone is not working - stretch it out for a week or so?

Several reasons
1. Everyone is NOT not working. (That actually has nothing to do with it. Just wanted to point it out)

2. More opportunity for fraud as the vote count dribbles out over time. If you know how much you need to cheat by, it is easier to come up with the fraudulent votes.

3. The main reason it isn't drawn out over days....you can't get the media to shut the fuck up and not keep releasing vote totals before the whole thing is over

#3 has been a big bone of contention because the media tries to queer the vote by pre releasing figures and hoping to suppress the voters in other states who haven't voted yet.

Florida for example is in two time zones. When the polls have closed in Florida but are still open in the Panhandle of Florida.....the media tries to claim victory for one candidate in hopes that the redneck goobers in the Panhandle will get discouraged and won't vote. They tried it last election.

Ditto for 'calling' the election when it is hours to poll closing time in the Western States.

IF there were some way to keep the vote count secret until EVERYONE has voted...then maybe the voting could be extended over a few days.. BUT...keeping secrets in political areas...HA HA HA HA... No chance. Media and political operatives would be salivating to be able to release information and try to sway the votes.

No one can keep their Damned mouths shut!

Jim at said...

Once again, if you won the Powerball? Would you mail in your ticket or claim it in person?

Leora said...

When my husband and I watched the Maltese Falcon where Sam Space picks up the key he mailed himself the day before we laughed and laughed and that was in 1973. I just had a check for a utility bill mailed on July 3 arrive on July 13.

rehajm said...

Who was that guy who predicted Trump would win in2016? Mick?

He took a bow and was gone. I miss Mick...

Drago said...

Michael k: "Howard is more confused every week. Putin and Stacey Abrams both have a favorite candidate and it is the same one."

Howard is 15 minutes away from asserting Trump will use tactical nuclear weapons to suppress the vote.

JohnG said...

If the results of the election are not decided by inauguration day - do the rules for presidential succession come into play? Does the speaker of the House (Nancy Pelosi) get inaugurated?

Who exactly is pushing for this mail in ballot scenario?

Rory said...

"Sam Space picks up the key he mailed himself the day before"

There's an 1899 contracts case, Fairmount Glass Works v. Crunden-Martin Wooden Ware Co., about the fascinating subject of an order of Mason Jars. The fun thing is the order was mailed on a Saturday from St Louis, received on Tuesday in a town 70 miles north of Indianapolis. The reply letter was received in St. Louis the very next day.

DavidUW said...

Side effects of the mRNA vaccines will be hepatitis.

Causing liver cells to produce an immune stimulating protein will result in hepatitis in a noticeable portion of the population. Period. You’re welcome.

Greg The Class Traitor said...

rhhardin said...
Get voters to spit on their ballot. Sort the ballots by DNA and remove duplicates. uniq -u in linux.

That's a brilliant idea.

Now, it would require a national DNA Fingerprint Database, which would freak out enough of both the Left and teh Right that it's probably a total non-starter, but I really do like the idea, because it's entirely workable

Greg The Class Traitor said...

Blogger wild chicken said...
It would actually be easier to vote a dead person's ballot in person, in my state, because the poll book judge does not check the signature against the ones on file.

So if ID was not required, anyone could vote for anyone else not likely to show up. Must be how the Dems did it in Chicago.


Which is why photo ID should always be required. And the fact that the Democrats are so opposed to it tells you that they thing election fraud helps their side

Oh, mail-in vote. In that case the signature would be verified against a record of registrations and address changes. One vote per voter. And dupes would be rejected.

Just helping you all out here.

BTW, signature verification was how the fraud was caught in New Jersey.

The system worked.


1: And I'm sure no Democrat vote counters would EVER look at a ballot, say "hey, this guy is a registered Republican", and then discover that the "signatures don't match".

After all, it's not like they're "ifhgtign l;itteral Hitler", and therefore justified in doing anything to make sure "Hitler" loses.

2: The only way tyou can prove "the system worked" is to find every single person who supposedly voted in the election, and find out, from them, if they actually did vote, and when they mailed their ballot in.

All this shows is that some corrupt Democrats are really lazy when committing their vote fraud

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