The debates have never made sense as a test for presidential leadership. In fact, one could argue that they reward precisely the opposite of what we want in a president. When we were serious about the presidency, we wanted intelligence, thoughtfulness, knowledge, empathy and, to be sure, likability. It should also without saying, dignity....Ridiculous. How can you read that and not laugh? Not written out of any concern that Trump will do better than Biden?!
This, by the way, isn’t written out of any concern that Donald Trump will prevail over Joe Biden in the debates; Mr. Biden has done just fine in a long string of such contests. The point is that “winning” a debate, however assessed, should be irrelevant, as are the debates themselves....
I am truly disgusted by this effort help Biden avoid debating. I've been writing about this for a while. Back on June 25th, I showed you a WaPo column by Karen Tumulty, "It’s time to rethink the presidential debates" and I said I expected "a push to eliminate the debates."
On July 8, I wrote, "The effort to rescue Biden from the demand to debate continues apace." That was based on a Thomas Friedman column, "Biden Should Not Debate Trump Unless …/Here are two conditions the Democrat should set." I said "It's not an outright argument to keep Biden out of the debates, but that's where it's headed." And: "[W]e need to see Joe perform in real time, on his feet, intensely challenged. He cannot weasel out."
Drew's column goes into the well-known problems of the debates — scripted quips, attention to how people look and so forth. But what's the alternative? Biden isn't doing serious interviews! Drew says: "The better way to pay attention to and choose among the presidential candidates is to follow the long campaign that so many complain about." The "better way" — not the best way. The word "better" presupposes that there are only 2 alternatives — debates and the "campaign." What about sitting down for hour-long interviews with challenging interviewers and answering all their questions? That's what Trump did with Chris Wallace and Biden has declined to do!
ADDED: Here's a good comment at Drew's NYT column:
This is an interesting set of arguments for trying to keep Joe Biden's increasing mental incapacity hidden from view. He hasn't done "fine" in past debates. True, he managed to sort of "win" his debate against Paul Ryan in 2012, but only by endlessly interrupting and outshouting Ryan who, whatever else one says about him, is the epitome of Midwestern nice and polite. Biden's claims and statements didn't make particular sense, but they didn't have to. They succeeded in preventing Ryan from making his wonky pointsAFTERTHOUGHT: But think this through: If Biden's people know that it's quite true that if Biden debates Trump, the debate will sink Biden's campaign, then it's at least as true that Biden must not debate Trump. And take that one step further: If we know that Biden must debate Trump but he does not, then we should infer that Biden's people knew that Biden was in no condition to debate Trump. That's information that we should use when we vote: The Democratic Party is asking us to vote for a person who lacks the mental capacity to serve as President! And yet, you know as well as I do, that many people will argue that we should vote for him anyway!
But that was then, when Biden, while never particularly bright, had all his marbles. His public appearances and debate performances this year have made his failing cognitive function painfully apparent. He was down for the count before James Clyburn rescued him in South Carolina, and the pandemic has enabled him to hide for five months. But he will need to emerge before the election, and the public will get a clear picture of a man whose time has long passed. Trump may play P.T. Barnum, but Biden is not even up to playing Chauncey Gardiner.
Biden must debate Trump, and the debate will sink his campaign.
Posts
147 comments:
Trump campaign ads will pummel Biden as afraid to debate Trump. And every single person in America will know it's true. They can't seriously be considering this.
Biden will debate if procedure does not change but Trump campaign keeps pushing for changes.
It's the only logical plot twist in "Weekend at Biden's".
Hilarious. LMAO hilarious.
Trump shouldn't even answer questions from whatever 'moderator' they throw up there. He should literally let Joe 'reclaim his time' by throwing the very questions they ask him right and Joe, "Well Joe? What do you think about x, y, or z". Don't answer the stupid questions, let Joe stumble all over himself. Let him be the goof to Donald's straight-man (and when the moment is right, Don just takes up where Joe left off with a good punch line).
This is what happens to a party going through late stage D-mentia.
Presidency decided by undecided voters, the category that cares least about debates, AA aside.
Gee, the democrats & Joe Biden sure don't act like they are 10 points ahead of Trump by doing this. Could the polls be inaccurate or off a little bit?
I'm really disappointed in Liz Drew. While she was an obvious Lefty (she couldn't write for the New Yorker if she wasn't), she wasn't nutty about it, and her political/election coverage in the 70s,80s, 90s was fairly factual and intelligent.
Now, she's simply shown herself to be a partisan hack of the highest order.
Drew was a panelist for the first debate in the 1976 U.S. Presidential election, and moderated the debate between the Democratic candidates for the nomination in the 1984 race. She's been writing about POTUS Debates ever since 1976. But NOW...
After 40 years, Drew *SUDDENLY* discovers POTUS debates aren't worth the trouble! Wow, just wow. Is there any Liberal/leftist who won't repudiate their previously deeply held positions in order to help the Liberal/Left gain power?
arent there insects that use the failing body of another to host
their incubating young?
That's what the Dems are using Joe Basement for.
Day by day it gets more obvious that Biden is a shell in which to hide
the Preferred Leftist Candidate.
Slo-Jo is just a delivery system, like the first stage of a rocket that
burns off and falls away.
In the prediction markets of all the Democrat Presidential candidates only Hillary still actively trades. There's a reason...
Readering said... [hush][hide comment]
Biden will debate if procedure does not change but Trump campaign keeps pushing for changes.
Hilarious. Watch this space for increasingly desperate and dumb arguments for canceling debates.
We could treat it like golf with each player being assigned a handicap. That way it would be fairer for Slow Joe given a 30 handicap against the reigning Champ. Either that, or we could have debate between Biden and RBG. That way Slow Joe would at least have a slim chance.
Scott Adams
@ScottAdamsSays
·
14h
Democrats are waking up to the terrifying realization that if #HollowJoe debates, he's done. And if he doesn't debate, he's done because he didn't debate.
Dems also suspect they really DID push Trump supporters to lie to pollsters.
#Landslide2020
I'm shocked that Trump isn't winning in a landslide. Biden can't even come out of the basement and choose a VP. Its been months, and he's still dithering. Now, Biden and his pals will try to skip a debate. That's unheard of. Its incredible. Guess all that macho bluster about how Biden would take Trump to the woodshed and DESTROY HIM, was just talk.
Seriously, do we really want a POTUS, who can't appear in public or debate or hold press conferences with objective journalists? I Guess so. Why not just nominate a card board cut-out as VP, since no one seems to care who runs on the D ticket?
Instapundit hits the bullseye again! Back in Spring, Insty wrote: "Step One: Nominate a guy who can't complete a sentence. Step Two: Push for abandonment of presidential debates."
"Liberal" Democrats have been saying they want a president who will get tough with Putin. (I know, it's BS, but for the sake of argument . . .) Shouldn't Republicans be saying "How is Biden going to stand up to Putin when he won't even face Trump?
The Press really is trying to drag a weak and fading Biden over the finish line.
Of course, Biden and his Democrat puppeteers are too chicken to debate. They've already shot shot their wad with the bogus Mueller report, bogus Ukraine impeachment, ridiculous lockdowns and violent riots where they try to burn down Democrat run inner-cities.
Althouse was not the only one on this blog to predict that Biden would not debate.
My prediction was predicated on Biden actually being the candidate. I am still 50% that he will be replaced on the ticket.
Dementia is a progressive condition exacerbated by stress. Unless he stays in the basement until November, Biden's cognitive decline will get noticeably worse. They cannot let him debate no matter how much they let the Media stack the deck.
Who will be the first elected Democrat to say publicly Biden must step aside? It says something that no media Dem has said so.
Bill or Barry, who carry the most weight in the party and won't be hurt by speaking out, might then say "Take my wife, please."
When we were serious about the presidency,
America, it’s your fault we can’t have nice debates anymore.
Perhaps we can re-run Joe's bizarre debate with Paul Ryan.
"This, by the way, isn’t written out of any concern that Donald Trump will prevail over Joe Biden in the debates; Mr. Biden has done just fine in a long string of such contests."
I remember Sarah Palin making him her bitch back in 2008. (Looking at GIS it appears he did make several groping attempts that evening.)
I actually think this sets up well for Biden. Expectations are so low that anything short of a total meltdown will be seen as a win. The worse thing for Joe would be not to debate.
I think we are seeing a corollary to the Streisand effect! The more you want to hide something. The more it becomes exposed.
Elizabeth Drew is 7 years older than Joe Biden, and apparently even more cognitively challenged.
Biden is going to skip the debates, and make up for all the lost momentum during the push-up contest.
lets DO AWAY WITH ELECTIONS AND SIMPLY INSTALL democrats.
Lets keep counting votes until the D's win. If it take 17 days, so be it.
Let's scrap voting all together. It's racist.
“In the prediction markets of all the Democrat Presidential candidates only Hillary still actively trades. There's a reason...”
Well, maybe not. #BillClintonIsAPedo Is trending right now on Twitter, thanks to some new Epstein disclosures.
She could, very reasonably, put out a call to her fellow journalists to ask questions that have importance, and then to cover them without focusing on the best sick burn delivered.
The media outlets are in charge of staffing the debate panels, asking the questions, and post coverage. If they feel the debates are not valuable, those are things *they* could change. But she isn't asking for those changes. She is instead asking for the American voters to have *even less* information directly from the mouths of the candidates.
rcocean:
"I'm shocked that Trump isn't winning in a landslide. "
I'm shocked that you'd assume he isn't based on what this media and their polls claim. Even if they were being honest - and that in itself is a hilarious assumption - I doubt that even 50% of Trump voters would trust any polling outfit enough to bother to answer their questions honestly.
I do absolutely believe that, if the massive voter fraud planned by Dems can be prevented, Trump wins in a 1984-level landslide.
I think Biden not being at John Lewis's funeral is a big huge red flag.
I love the whole "I must debate Trump or I will lose," yet "I must not debate Trump because I will lose" thing.
Reminds me of Wallace Shawn in Princess Bride trying to deduce which chalice has the poisoned wine.
I have to admit in my lifetime I've never seen democrats so desperate to hide a suspect candidate from the public. Next thing they will call for is to limit any interviews or only allow the most scripted "public appearances" in front of adoring press pools.
The fun begins as democratic candidates trying to run in a red state have to disavow many of Biden's radical policies or what their position will be supporting a dementia addled candidate for president. Will they support the use of the 25th amendment when Joe's dementia progresses during his first term? Are they comfortable with Joe Biden having control of the "nuclear football" when it's clear he no longer has an idea where he is or what year it is?
What happens when some Dem, such as one of the not-chosen finalists for VP, finally says out loud, in public, that Biden has dementia, that it is getting worse, and that his campaign is cruelty to an elderly man? Are the Dems gonna try a Toricelli/Lautenberg candidate swap on a PRESIDENTIAL campaign?
Get out Joe, before it is too late to get out.
If the Democrats are for it then they believe it will advantage them, if not, not. Debates, rank voting, Electoral College, and so on.
The earnestness of the argument and motivations could mean the author is lying to themselves, but I doubt it. Propaganda operation.
Elizabeth Drew: The debates have never made sense as a test for presidential leadership. In fact, one could argue that they reward precisely the opposite of what we want in a president. When we were serious about the presidency, we wanted intelligence, thoughtfulness, knowledge, empathy and, to be sure, likability. It should also without saying, dignity....
Am I the only one who finds it funny that she says "he debates have never made sense as a test for presidential leadership. In fact, one could argue that they reward precisely the opposite of what we want in a president," then immediately rattles off exactly the sort of sounds-good superficial tripe people claim to be able to judge from the debates, and ushered self-described cipher Barack Obama into the White House?
Consider the voters as a giant jury. Like juries everything we want to consider the evidence presented to us, the documents, the photos, the instruments/tools used, and so forth. And we want to see and listen to the witnesses. The expert ones, the eyewitnesses, the character witnesses. We want to see all the witnesses so we can make assessments about them.
Ditching the debates is yet another stupid idea from the left.
The Democratic Party is asking us to vote for a person who lacks the mental capacity to serve as President! And yet, you know as well as I do, that many people will argue that we should vote for him anyway!
Considering there are lefty pundits who believe Tara Reade but are voting for Biden anyway, that's not exactly a stretch.
Expect Dems to push to delay the election in order to find someone else for the top of the ticket.
"The Democratic Party is asking us to vote for a person who lacks the mental capacity to serve as President! And yet, you know as well as I do, that many people will argue that we should vote for him anyway!"
Well yes, this is exactly true and was clear to Democrat voters early on. Rep. Clyburn did reach down to bring Biden up out of the bottom of the well, but that did not make him suddenly competent. It just clearly showed that the other candidates- some of whom are or were being considered for VP- were also atrocious. Kinda tells you something about the Democrat Party and their ability to appeal to the actual cross section of the country (so much for diversity).
But that's not the worst of it. The Democrat Media/Academia Complex is starting on their Drip Campaign to make denying a Presidential Debate a normal sounding thing. Elizabeth Drew, long time political Journalist!: "The debates have never made sense as a test for presidential leadership."
Since when, exactly? Democrats are ready to take out anything and everything these days if they cannot get their way. When given power, or using the power of the Media and academic "experts" they hope to push many more things that suddenly never made sense. Here are some of the other things that suddenly don't make sense to Democrats.
>The Electoral College
>Voter ID
>Voting in person (ballot harvesting, anyone?)
>One person, one vote (ballot harvesting, anyone?)
>9 Supreme Court Justices
>Police
>Jails
>US Military
>Secure Borders
>All Lives Matter
These are just a few. This is the party some of you are voting for? Hell- there should not be another Democrat elected for at least two generations, just to clean out this mess. Don't vote Republican if you don't like, but damn...voting Democrat is sure as shit voting for the end of your country.
I had someone say to me the other day "it's going to be really awkward if they don't debate." I laughed and said "there will be no debate Biden has dementia." She reverted back to the awkward statement and I just laughed again. Living in different realities now
Up until now, I hadn't been expecting some dramatic move as the October surprise, but now it seems almost inevitable. If their internal polling is as bad as it appears to be, someone has to kick over the apple cart. The big problem is that WhiteJoe is not going to draw out the hoards of looters and BLMers to vote. In addition, they need to bring back the white suburban ladies to whom the Althouse political weather vane invariably points.
It's not out of the question to think that a Kamala-Klobuchar ticket would solve a number of problems for them at the last minute. Or maybe Kamala-Booker. That would be a well-melanated ticket that might bring the rioters and prog white ladies in to vote with fervor. I'm beginning to think that a stunt of some sort is in the planning. But would OldJoe go along with it? He's wanted this a long time. It would require Jill to step in and take charge.
It would make for a great convention that even I would watch.
- Krumhorn
Democracy is steered by the press, social platforms, activists, then aborted under a veil of darkness at the Twilight Fringe.
Biden might be good at table tennis. That would be a good show against Trump.
The benefit is not the debating, it's the performance under pressure. Just as the benefit of the long campaign is to test the candidates' endurance. Neither of which is in any way equal to the job but it the best indication we have.
After the last Presidential debates; I wanted the charades to end, because the "moderators" were simply partisans, as we saw with Chris Wallace complaining to Trump about accepting election results, as if 2000 never happened. If they are just a media controlled attack piece, then it isn't a real debate.
I disagree completely that debates are irrelevant. Indeed, they are the best vehicle for testing the ability to test a persons ability to make arguments in a negotiation. The President routinely debates policies with other Heads of State, and we ought to know how well our leader will represent us, regardless of whether we agree with their particular policy.
After all, Obama may be willing to give billions to Iran, but the question we have as citizens is what convinced him to do so? Was he brow beaten to do so? Did he make an equitable agreement? Did we get something more valuable in trade? A debate can help answer those questions.
I don't get why anybody cares about Biden debating. What you want it Biden story-telling. That's what he's good at.
The debate moderators always suck.
Use performance with the musical instrument of their choice. We don't want a tone-deaf president.
I noted the other day that Biden didn't attend the Lewis funeral. This was a big fucking deal. It tells me that Biden can't be allowed outside in any unscripted venue, even just to sit and watch stuff for two hours. The best that Biden was apparently able to muster was to walk past the casket as it lay in state at the Capitol, then back to the basement.
I fully expect the Democrats to replace Biden before the election now- if Biden really were going to be the nominee, he would have shown up at Lewis' funeral and given a short address at the very least. You simply cannot hide from the public like this and expect to win the presidency- you do have to show up and be seen campaigning regularly just to get your die-hard voters to go vote for you, and refusing to debate Trump is a losing strategy for certain- even the Democrats know this since it is why you are seeing the trial balloons going up. The better solution is to replace Biden, and that is what is going to happen.
The problem for the Democrats is that Biden's careless words from months ago have boxed them in on the VP choice. They don't want Sanders (which I reiterate is a mistake to not let Sanders have it), and the plan was to pick a VP and then elevate that VP choice to the top spot at or just after the convention, but Biden shit in the punchbowl by promising that the pick would be female and all but promising a black female, but none of the proffered people look like a strong candidate for the presidency. In any case, if the change isn't made by the first of September, the Democrats are stuck with Biden. Right now, the best way to change candidates would be to open up the convention- it would at least offer the candidate needed legitimacy.
AZ Bob said...
Expect Dems to push to delay the election in order to find someone else for the top of the ticket.
I wonder if that could explain Trump's trial balloon tweet last week about postponing the election; now they're all locked in to that being crazy and irresponsible.
If Biden doesn't debate Trump, he loses. If Biden does debate Trump, he loses.
Therefore I think he will do what I suggested here months ago. After the convention, he will step aside for his VP. It will be a sad speech. He'll say Beau should have been the candidate. But he's a party man and Trump MUST be defeated. He's a selfless guy. And there will be a big payoff. He's already gotten paid by the ChiComs.
He will receive much praise from all the usual suspects. Barack will be especially happy.
MayBee said...
"I think Biden not being at John Lewis's funeral is a big huge red flag."
Ok, so I wasn't the only one to notice this.
Democrats are looking brilliant for having 11 debates, selecting Joe, claiming that debates are meaningless and (maybe) near the end withdrawing Biden. It's truly bizarre.
It would be interesting to know who's running things. Who convinced Amy Klobuchar and Mayor Pete to drop out when they did? Who decides who the VP nominee will be? Who is keeping everybody on the same page? That's who will be running things if Trump loses.
Reminds me of Wallace Shawn in Princess Bride trying to deduce which chalice has the poisoned wine.
The entire Democratic party has reminded me of him for a long time now.
Is it just dawning that a Trump victory may not be inconthevable?
If we were in England, people would say "Joe stop being such a cunt."
MayBee said...
I think Biden not being at John Lewis's funeral is a big huge red flag
I was thinking white flag as in surrender. The DNC is well aware of Biden's progressive dementia. They have given up on him and are secretly waving the white flag.
No matter how much chaos they create with lockdowns and riots, the majority of Americans are not going to vote for a guy who was a clown before he acquired dementia.
"Why the Botched N.Y.C. Primary Has Become the November Nightmare"
Nearly six weeks later, two congressional races remain undecided, and officials are trading blame over the mishandling of tens of thousands of mail-in ballots.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/03/nyregion/nyc-mail-ballots-voting.html?smid=tw-share
Dems-- clean out the trunk of your car, they're gonna need that space
for ballots.
Slo-Jo Phantom is gonna need weeks & weeks of "counting" after the election
Biden... the candidate is not viable. Oh, the irony, the cosmic karma.
Blogger MayBee said..."I think Biden not being at John Lewis's funeral is a big huge red flag."
Wow, I didn't realize that was the case. But then, I've pretty much stopped watching the news.
Come to think of it, I bet the "news" didn't point out Biden's absence.
We should replace the debates with trial by combat between each candidate's champion.
I want to see Kellyanne Conway stab someone with a trident.
Dan Boningo tweeted yesterday that his sources are telling him that Biden's mental awareness is deteriorating rapidly, and Dems know they have to make a decision soon. I said two months ago, he will not be on the ballot. They don't know what to do at the moment, to exiting he debate if he remains is a Hail Mary.
Blogger Readering said..."Biden will debate if procedure does not change but Trump campaign keeps pushing for changes."
Please elaborate. What changes?
They will keep making excuses and that will be good enough. Anyone who doesn't like Donald Trump will avert their eyes.
YW and are are thinking along the same lines.
I didn't know Biden didn't show at the funeral. Big deal.
Blogger Readering said..."Presidency decided by undecided voters, the category that cares least about debates, AA aside."
That's nonsensical. Why would the decided voters care more? They're, like, decided already.
They literally can't let Biden go to a store by himself without a handler.
He might wander off and scare people with his jibbering.
A video showed a minder grabbing his arm and dragging him away from the media.
Imagine being Bernie or Warren and thinking they lost to that.
In the Dem hierarchy it goes senile old white guy > crazy commie fart > fake Indian scoldy school marm.
Of course they're not going to let Biden debate Trump. Because if Bernie Bros and Fauxcahontas' tribe see that the Dems are offering a doddering old fool rather than their whack job candidate, they won't be voting for Biden either.
Jordan Schachtel has a string of Drew's tweets from last year showing her already in the bag for Biden. You'll have to scroll down to about noon.
So when they replace Biden, will debates become important again?
Hi Yancey:
I fully expect the Democrats to replace Biden before the election now- if Biden really were going to be the nominee, he would have shown up at Lewis' funeral and given a short address at the very least.
I would say they want to replace Slow Joe, they are worried about him, they are talking about it, but they won't do it. Too late in the game, too risky.
I for one welcome our black female VP overlord.
If Biden is physically able to stand he'll be at the debates. And he will be juiced with whatever alertness and memory drugs science can provide. He'll be prepped to the nth degree. He'll have friendly, helpful moderators. He'll know exactly what questions are coming. He'll have active air cover from the national media, who will proclaim he did a brilliant job regardless of what he says. His wardrobe will be focus-group tested, his makeup will be Hollywood-perfect.
In short, the entire Dem/media/entertainment complex will move heaven and earth to allow Biden to show his best.
But he remains a sow's ear.
Gee, I saw Biden on a campaign ad just yesterday. He looked fine to me.
Blogger Mattman26 said...
AZ Bob said...
Expect Dems to push to delay the election in order to find someone else for the top of the ticket.
I wonder if that could explain Trump's trial balloon tweet last week about postponing the election; now they're all locked in to that being crazy and irresponsible.
8/3/20, 12:33 PM
That's the beauty of the terrible rear orifice that is called Twitter. Trump is playing it at a master level. The Dems and dems take it as a point of seriousness, when it matters not one iota in the real world.
If you google "Did Biden attend John Lewis funeral," you get a story about Trump not attending within the top 3; an occasional story about Biden "paying his respects" (while Lewis lay in state), but not one story appearing to note Biden's absence.
Weekend with Biden
"And yet, you know as well as I do, that many people will argue that we should vote for him anyway!"
Well, yeah. Even if Biden were comatose, I'd vote for him against Trump.
Mattman26 said...
I love the whole "I must debate Trump or I will lose," yet "I must not debate Trump because I will lose" thing.
Reminds me of Wallace Shawn in Princess Bride trying to deduce which chalice has the poisoned wine.
Both chalices were poisoned*, just as debating or not debating will both cost Biden the election.
*Westley had built up a resistance to iocaine powder.
I want to see Kellyanne Conway stab someone with a trident.
8/3/20, 12:59 PM
Her husband. And I think George would emit a lot of hot air like a punctured balloon.
"In short, the entire Dem/media/entertainment complex will move heaven and earth to allow Biden to show his best."
Of course they will. But if he can't string 2 coherent sentences together, it doesn't matter what softballs they toss his way. And I have yet to see or hear of a drug that makes a senile person able to pass as not senile.
The Biden camp already has agreed, conditionally, to have three debates with Trump. The dates and places already have been set.
The only condition is that Trump has to release his tax returns first. If he doesn't, then the debates are off.
Knowing the questions in advance is what debate is all about. Joe has been prepped for his public appearances and it doesn’t prevent word salad.
The fact Obama is coming out of the woodwork to be the surrogate campaigner at Wellstone's Funeral 2.0 was a major tell. This should have been an ideal platform for Biden to get fawning media coverage and bravely call Trump a racist but he's too old an enfeebled to do that and needs to outsource that.
If it was the Biden of 7 years ago I could imagine setting the bar so low would be a strategic mistake that Biden could easily do well enough to dispel rumors of mental unfitness. But that's not where are are now. Even in his most stage managed appearances or favorable press coverage, Biden looks really old and frail and jumbled in his thoughts and demeanor. Its over. They need to pick a new candidate or face a humiliating defeat. You can no longer disguise his cognitive decline. Something needs to be done and fast.
Unknown said...
"And yet, you know as well as I do, that many people will argue that we should vote for him anyway!"
Well, yeah. Even if Biden were comatose, I'd vote for him against Trump.
****************
Another member of "The Walking Woke" reveals his neuron-depleted state.
"I regret that the day has come when I must step forward to save our party and our nation. Vice President Biden's sad decline can no longer be denied. I am the only person with the organization and experience needed to defeat Donald Trump, and so, in great humility, I offer to serve as our party's candidate for president."
I still think all of this is about expectation management by the Dems. They want to set the expectation as low as possible. The more outrageous the claim about how incapable Joe is, the better.
Now, when Joe agrees to debate, he looks 'brave' and 'independent' even though he's doing something totally unremarkable.
And when he stands there for 90 minutes and doesn't drool, fall over, or wet his pants, the stories will all be about his 'mastery' of the format and his brilliant performance.
It's all a scam. Again, you are being lied to, on purpose, to manipulate your emotions. RHardin can explain how that works and who the target audience is.
Biden should offer to debate if Rosie O'Donnell is the moderator.
"I noted the other day that Biden didn't attend the Lewis funeral. This was a big fucking deal. It tells me that Biden can't be allowed outside in any unscripted venue, even just to sit and watch stuff for two hours. The best that Biden was apparently able to muster was to walk past the casket as it lay in state at the Capitol, then back to the basement."
I tried to verify that, and it took quite a bit of searching to find anything confirming this!
I found lots of articles talking about Biden planning to go to the funeral and lots of articles of claiming he attended the funeral.
I saw pictures of him touching the casket with his wife.
But is really hard to find an article that will admit that this is all he did and that he was not at the funeral at the same time as the others and in particular during the two-hour ceremony when speeches were given.
It is amazing. The ability of the left to suppress information that they don't want people to know has become astonishing.
I did this search on Bing. I also did it on YouTube. And I'll take people's word for it that the same is true for the Google search engine.
The best metaphor I've read is that Biden is like a tear-down: it's the real estate that's important. Now if only we could figure out a way to make the 'real estate value' of the office of the Presidential less important to our daily lives. . . I'm not optimistic, but it's nice to think about.
Notre Dame has already cancelled hosting debate #1 in September for reason of Covid-19 which likely isn't the only reason, but a location has been found in Gym Jordan's state for September 29 at Case Western Reserve. It seems to me that the Donks should counter the Trump move to delay or otherwise cancel the election based on his fake conspiracy on mail voting illegalities by withdrawing Biden's participation in the debates (one at a time) - just hours before the debate start times. Unlike voting, there is no law requiring any debates. Simply apply the Lincoln Foundation's winning strategy of pissing Trump off every day.
"Blogger Unknown said...
Well, yeah. Even if Biden were comatose, I'd vote for him against Trump."
A lot of people know he has dementia and they just don't care. I think it's a fitting end of Empire personally. I grew up hearing about the end of the Habsburg with the imbecile Charles II sitting on the throne demented, crippled and drooling out of his oversized jaw. This is our Habsburg Moment!
Mattman26 said...
If you google "Did Biden attend John Lewis funeral," you get a story about Trump not attending within the top 3; an occasional story about Biden "paying his respects" (while Lewis lay in state), but not one story appearing to note Biden's absence.
Tried this. Ditto. Even worse it seems there have been no mainstream media articles published that answer that question. No articles that explain where he was Thursday instead. But Google does want me to know Trump didn't go and it was invitation only (not from the same source). So I tried "Biden, Lewis funeral" and the results were just as dismal, with the top five Google results unable to find those words together. The two links that hinted at perhaps answering it, were not clear enough to answer the question, if I had actually been curious about his attendance:
4 days ago - President Jimmy Carter, who did not attend Lewis' funeral in person, ... Joe Biden and his wife, Jill Biden, as well as Vice President Mike Pence... it peters out
And 4 days ago - John Lewis funeral: Obama, Bush and Clinton among reported attendees ... A Biden spokesperson did not immediately respond to The Post's ... which answers the question as non-responsive.
Hmmm. Google is skewing things.
There are only three possibilities here, and only one is helpful to Biden. I'll leave you to decide how likely you think that one option is.
1) Biden refuses to debate Trump and Trump and Trump PACs issue a deluge of attack ads showing Biden rambling incoherently with the tag line "this is why Biden won't debate Trump." I actually think this is the worst case possible for Biden.
2) Biden debates Trump and rambles incoherently.
3) Biden debates Trump and does at least passably well. He's at least coherent and marginally on topic.
We went on an Alaskan cruise when I was fifty or so...I was one of the youngest people on the ship.
Between the age of the passengers and the 'sameness' of cruise life, the elevators had reminders on the floor, mats that were switched out every morning...Monday, Tuesday, etc.
I imagine old Joe has those mats at the top of the stairs leading down to his basement.
DarkHelmet said...
If Biden is physically able to stand he'll be at the debates. And he will be juiced with whatever alertness and memory drugs science can provide. He'll be prepped to the nth degree. He'll have friendly, helpful moderators. He'll know exactly what questions are coming. He'll have active air cover from the national media, who will proclaim he did a brilliant job regardless of what he says. His wardrobe will be focus-group tested, his makeup will be Hollywood-perfect.
I don't think that's the real problem. I think they're more worried that Trump will needle Biden's ego enough that he'll lose it on stage and make an even bigger ass of himself than he's already managed to. Since we're on a Princess Bride theme; change "Never get involved in a land war in Asia" to "Never get involved in a game of one-upmanship with Donald Trump".
more like the tauntauns on hoth,
Wasn't there a poll a few weeks (months?) ago that showed something like 80% of Democrats know (believe; admit) that Biden isn't competent to be President but they will vote for him because they believe they are voting for a "cabinet" that they will like (and therefor regulations they like) and assurance that a Dem will appoint the next SC Justice.
So, 40% of the US population knows that Biden won't be governing and they don't give a shit. Because. . . .Power.
They've been shut out for four years. The Never Trumpers have been shut off from access for four years. They want back in, Biden's their only ticket right now and they can't drop him this late in the game.
If Mr Biden won't debate Mr Trump, perhaps Mr West will? (I 'overheard' that on Twitter.)
WRT debate-ophobia, it is worth remembering Donna Brazile tipping Hillary last time around. Biden will be tipped off about the questions in advance, and they still fear his ability to answer them.
Trump has spent the last 4 years developing a resistance to iocaine powder.
Thanks to the constant shots from the Democrats.
I expect that Elizabeth Drew also believes that counting votes doesn't give us any useful information about who should be the next President. Just ask Carlos who he prefers,
I don’t think they will replace Joe, because a replacement might go rogue and try to make decisions on his own.
The Russians(!!!) should hack into Biden’s system and feed him bogus leaked debate questions. How could he complain?
Come'On Man, Joe mopped the floor with Ryan. He can do it again. Tell Joe he's debating Ryan again, and tell Joe this time the debate is in Scranton. Joe's a lock.
"Now if only we could figure out a way to make the 'real estate value' of the office of the Presidential less important to our daily lives. . . I'm not optimistic, but it's nice to think about."
The founding fathers figured it out 200+ years ago, but it has been taken from us.
"The only condition is that Trump has to release his tax returns first. If he doesn't, then the debates are off."
That's a transparent ruse.
Original Mike said...
Gee, I saw Biden on a campaign ad just yesterday. He looked fine to me.
8/3/20, 1:20 PM
You are not that far off. Here is how it will play out.
- The DNC will agree to one to three debates.
- Due to the China-Flu, they will INSIST that the debates be held remotely via Zoom or somesuch.
- They will use a VR mock-up of Joe as a stand-in for the actual Joe.
- They will have a room full of "experts" and will have fully gamed every question so that most of the responses will be pre-programmed into the VR Joe (think Max Headroom or that Pachino movie with the VR actress).
- They will program in a "stall" like drinking water so that they have some time to code up "on the fly" interactions.
- After they steal the election, no one will ever see Joe in person again and his handlers will run the country through the VR Joe.
You heard it here first!
@DanTheMan at 2:14: You may well be right.
Biden is going to have to give an "acceptance speech" for his nomination. That is where he gets to introduce himself to the people who will decide the election.
If he gave give a half-hour - hour long coherent speech, then he might be able to skip the debates.
If he can't, then he's toast, and will desperately need the debates.
Polls before the conventions are meaningless
Best play for the Ds is to not let him debate. They need to flip the script and make it about how Trump is dishonest and would just use a debate as one more excuse to spew his lies and hate and racism, and that no decent person would participate in any even where Trump was permitted to speak.
It might work.
Debating will not work. There is no longer a "Joe Biden" to debate. There is a mass of dead neurons in the skull of the ambulatory husk that still goes by the name of "Joe Biden." But Joe Biden, the person who was at one time an acting, coherent human being, is gone. That fact must be concealed, and the voters permitted to project whatever they want onto their own internal mental image of "Joe Biden" -- in particular that their vote for "Joe Biden" is the only way to stop Trump.
It might work.
My six-year old can Zoom her classes just fine. Two presidential candidates should be able to debate safely as well.
My six-year old can Zoom her classes just fine. Two presidential candidates should be able to debate safely as well.
Simply apply the Lincoln Foundation's winning strategy of pissing Trump off every day.
Brilliant, gadfly. An excuse to keep Biden in the basement and a rant about the election.
ronalddewitt said...
I don’t think they will replace Joe, because a replacement might go rogue and try to make decisions on his own.
That's a good point that I had not thought of. Right now, Biden's "advisors" think they're in the catbird seat. "We run Biden, he wins, and we get to run the country."
Dumping Biden is in the best interests of the Democrat Party. But it's not in the best interests of teh advisors who currently have the power to make the call
If the left can get Joe across the finish line,who cares if he's incapable of leading the nation (well, except for those of us that voted R)?
Whoever is pulling on the rope dragging Joe now will begin pulling the puppet strings after November.
Chauncey Gardner indeed.
Blogger wholelottasplainin' said...
Unknown said...
"And yet, you know as well as I do, that many people will argue that we should vote for him anyway!"
Well, yeah. Even if Biden were comatose, I'd vote for him against Trump.
****************
Another member of "The Walking Woke" reveals his neuron-depleted state.
8/3/20, 2:01 PM
Not really. It shows that they are hypocritical, nasty, immoral and evil people - the latter because they try to disguise themselves with a veil of compassion.
"It seems to me that the Donks should counter the Trump move to delay or otherwise cancel the election based on his fake conspiracy on mail voting illegalities by withdrawing Biden's participation in the debates (one at a time) - just hours before the debate start times. Unlike voting, there is no law requiring any debates. Simply apply the Lincoln Foundation's winning strategy of pissing Trump off every day."
No reason for Trump to get pissed off. Don't want to debate? Fine. Just set a monitor on Joe's podium, have someone ask some already-answered-by-Biden questions, play back Joe's replies and let Trump take it from there.
I'm pretty sure the democrats would lose whatever shit they still have left.
The debates are, of course, not really debates. I wish they were. I wish the candidates would be required to propose/defend specific issues, selected according to relevance to both campaigns. This will never happen.
What the debates serve, however, is to give us a good look at the candidates' personalities, how they interact with others, whether they can think on their feet, etc. Biden's debate with Ryan was valuable in this regard. I had been ready to accept that Biden was the blue-collar, back-slapping man of the people he made himself out to be, but the debate showed that he was a rude, unimaginative asshole who never let a principled idea enter his head.
The Democrats fear that debating Trump will expose Biden's diminished mental acuity, but that's not precisely correct. Debating Trump will expose the fact that Biden never had any mental acuity to begin with.
I think Candy Crowley should be brought out of retirement to choose the format of the next debate and, really, whether there should be one at all.
Decaffeinated Joe is woke and sleepy.
Why don't the democrats just admit the truth?
Offer to have their vice presidential candidate debate Trump!
I have two Debate recollections (not counting Nixon-Kennedy, duh). In 2008, VP candidate Biden debated VP candidate Palin. Everybody by then thought Palin was a dummy, and would disgrace herself. In fact she didn't, as evidenced by the fact that the Media pretty much ignored the debate after it was over. But Biden, the savvy old dog who'd been in Govt FOREVER, made at least half a dozen stupid mistakes. After all these years there's only one Biden mistake I still remember: He claimed that the First Article of the Constitution provides for the role of the President. No, Article I deals with the Congress. That's an important sign of what the Framers had in mind, and for someone who spent his life up until then in the legislative branch not to know that, evidences that his mental failings are nothing new.
The other debate was 1976 Ford-Carter (I think there was only one). After the two candidates came out to their respective podiums, there was a problem with the sound system, and they were both asked to stand by until the debate could be started. It seemed to me that it took about 10 minutes before the sound was fixed, and both candidates just stood there at their podiums staring vacuously ahead. If EITHER ONE of them had walked over to the other and said, Hey, why don't we go get a beer while we're waiting, or Heck Jimmy, you're a nuculear engineer, and I used to serve on an aircraft carrier, can't you and me fix this thing -- that person would have won the election by acclamation!
Dems suddenly recognizing that if Biden debates Trump it’s a disaster and if he doesn’t it’s a disaster. Joe hasn’t been nominated yet. Let’s wait until the convention.
I want to see Kellyanne Conway stab someone with a trident.
8/3/20, 12:59 PM
Her husband. And I think George would emit a lot of hot air like a punctured balloon.
I was thinking more along the lines of Mr. Creosote.
Scott Adam's might be suggesting what I've known all along.
Biden will not be the nom. He will hand it to Hillary last minute.
" I think they're more worried that Trump will needle Biden's ego enough that he'll lose it on stage and make an even bigger ass of himself than he's already managed to"
I think you're correct. We've already seen Biden blow up and rant incoherently at a reporter, a hard-hat in Michigan and a "dog-faced pony soldier." He is terribly thin-skinned and always has been - witness the ridiculous tirade he went on in 1988, telling a voter how high his IQ was and how he finished first in his law school class.
Ah, but Trump is also thin-skinned and egotistical. True - but Trump doesn't lash out at ordinary people. Biden does.
Lexington Green said...
Best play for the Ds is to not let him debate. They need to flip the script and make it about how Trump is dishonest and would just use a debate as one more excuse to spew his lies and hate and racism, and that no decent person would participate in any even where Trump was permitted to speak.
The problem with that is saying that reveals teh real D: "In a world where we have power, no one who disagrees with us will ever be allowed to speak."
1: That's unlikely to be a message taht will attract 50%+ of the voters
2: If it does win, it tells the other side "the rules are dead. The system is dead."
So, if you want to be introduced to "right we cancel culture" (which is: we shoot you if you offend us), that's the way to bring it about
"The only condition is that Trump has to release his tax returns first. If he doesn't, then the debates are off."
No problem. Right after Obama releases all his college transcripts, law school transcripts, college Senior thesis, and everything he wrote in law school
The only condition is that Trump has to release his tax returns first. If he doesn't, then the debates are off.
If the moon is made of green cheese, Biden will debate Trump. Otherwise, the debates are off.
How many other stupid conditions are you willing to put out there before you realize what the fuck is going on?
I will be OK with scrapping the debates when we also agree to scrap the "tradition" of candidates publishing their tax retruns. Neither serves the claimed purpose, they are mainly opportunities for candidates to say or reveal something that can be used against them, often dishonestly.
>>Debating Trump will expose the fact that Biden never had any mental acuity to begin with.
CNN crawl: Expert Slothrop agrees Biden has 100% of Previous Mental Acuity!
ELECT THE PARTY NOT THE PERSON
Democrats will progress us to all that is good
Matter not which one wields supreme executive power
FIRST QUESTION - where are you?
SECOND QUESTION - recite the pledge of allegiance
end of debate
"If Biden is physically able to stand he'll be at the debates. And he will be juiced with whatever alertness and memory drugs science can provide. He'll be prepped to the nth degree."
I have dealt with a person in Biden's present state- no amount of prepartion works if the individual forgets what he is doing and saying a minute later. For Biden, it is obviously already this bad when you watch the "town halls" he does with friendly people sitting around a Zoom camera- he doesn't really engage at all in these settings, and then loses the thread with almost every interaction. You can only interact with such people around very old memories- nothing new or contemporary.
At the same mental state I see in Biden today (I obsessively watch any video with Biden these days), I could talk to my father (and grandfather, incidentally, at about the same time in 2015) about how he and my grandfather built the house I mostly grew up in. He could tell me all the details I could care to ask about, and accurately (I knew they are accurate because I was actually there when it was being built in 1974). If you listened to the discussion, my father would seem entirely mentally competent. However, if you asked him about something that happened just an hour before, it would be obvious that he wasn't mentally competent at all.
"How many other stupid conditions are you willing to put out there before you realize what the fuck is going on?"
What makes you think he doesn't realize what's going on?
In my more cynical moments I realize that the true goal is not to eliminate the debates, but to define “success” for Joe so far down that if he doesn’t drool on camera or wet himself through incontinence that he is proclaimed a winner. You set up expectations that Trump will mop the floor with Sleepy Joe so that the press can proclaim that Trump did worse than expected and Joe did better than expected when Joe remembers what city he is in and which party he belongs to (and doesn’t grope any female moderators).
It’s an old trick.
When my brothers and I had to put our Oma under my conservatorship back about 1980, we were required, of course, to have two MDs evaluate her mental competence.
What was the first question asked of her by both? Yes, "Who is the president?"
Narr
Biden could probably pass that one
It almost makes you wonder if the delay in the convention and selection of VP is because the Democrats are seriously considering whether they can risk nominating Biden given his cognitive decline. The Democrats tried the medical issues cover-up in 2016, and it backfired when Hillary infamously had an episode on 9/11 that the campaign was unable to hide. It is risking a lot to assume that they can manage to hide the issue successfully for another 3 months.
Their other problem though is that if Biden can't make it, replacing him is an absolute PR disaster at this point. If they pick anyone who wasn't in the primary, they risk making the whole process appear a farce. If they pick almost anyone who was, they are putting up someone who couldn't win their own party's nomination against a man without all his wits and who also endorsed Biden despite what they must have known were his troubles. The only logical choice here is Bernie, who can at least argue the process was tilted against him again, but the Democrats won't let an outsider like Bernie get the nomination.
Interesting follow-up question to consider - if Biden refuses to debate, does Trump offer to debate Biden's VP selection, or perhaps some Never Trump media personality? I imagine some of these Never Trump egos would jump at the chance for a public shot at Trump from a podium.
It almost makes you wonder if the delay in the convention and selection of VP is because the Democrats are seriously considering whether they can risk nominating Biden given his cognitive decline. The Democrats tried the medical issues cover-up in 2016, and it backfired when Hillary infamously had an episode on 9/11 that the campaign was unable to hide. It is risking a lot to assume that they can manage to hide the issue successfully for another 3 months.
Their other problem though is that if Biden can't make it, replacing him is an absolute PR disaster at this point. If they pick anyone who wasn't in the primary, they risk making the whole process appear a farce. If they pick almost anyone who was, they are putting up someone who couldn't win their own party's nomination against a man without all his wits and who also endorsed Biden despite what they must have known were his troubles. The only logical choice here is Bernie, who can at least argue the process was tilted against him again, but the Democrats won't let an outsider like Bernie get the nomination.
Interesting follow-up question to consider - if Biden refuses to debate, does Trump offer to debate Biden's VP selection, or perhaps some Never Trump media personality? I imagine some of these Never Trump egos would jump at the chance for a public shot at Trump from a podium.
Corrupt HIllary is super excited about all the vote by mail schemes going on in many states.
"Biden could probably pass that one"
Oh, it sure would be fun to find out.
The towering intellect Sarah Palin cleaned Biden’s plow in 2008. I remember one of the talking heads on a left wing news channel saying, “Boy, I’ll bet Biden is glad that’s over!”
Fourteen days till the convention, right here in Milwaukee. Over at the convention web page there a Tastee Freeze logo mixed in with other symbols. Why? Is it supposed to mean Kopp's Frozen Custard? The real Kopp's logo is a line of cow sculptures in the parking lot. Accept no substitutes. When you're tired of the Dems and all their creations - Visit Kopp's Frozen Custard - Brain freezin' for a reason.
MayBee said...
I think Biden not being at John Lewis's funeral is a big huge red flag.
8/3/20, 11:56 AM
Excellent point, MayBee!
Once President Trump states "of course we should debate" big media will reflexively dig in and claim all manner of reasons why they should be cancelled. They won't be able to help themselves...if the bad orange man is for it, they must be agginn it.
Biden and his family have been paid a lot of Chinese money. You have to wonder if he is the real Manchurian candidate.
Unless I missed it in the above comments,
Uh, the delay in choosing a VP is because they're actually negotiating how to remove Biden and nominate someone else at the (also delayed) convention.
Back in the day, we knew that Teddy was thinking about running for President when he took off about 30 lbs. Has anyone seen Michelle lately?
Ann Althouse said:
"But think this through: If Biden's people know that it's quite true that if Biden debates Trump, the debate will sink Biden's campaign, then it's at least as true that Biden must not debate Trump. And take that one step further: If we know that Biden must debate Trump but he does not, then we should infer that Biden's people knew that Biden was in no condition to debate Trump."
This reminds me of the battle of wits scene in The Princess Bride. Because [so and so], I can't choose the wine in front of you. But [blah blah blah], so, clearly, I can't choose the wine in front of me.
As far as our inferring that Biden's team knows that he can't debate Trump, I think it's a safe bet that we know that they know Creepy, Sleepy, Sloppy Joe does not have a dizzying intellect.
People try to stick mental incompetence on every candidate they don't like. See all the psychological diagnoses of Trump.
The thing with Biden is that the accusation is sticking.
The only way to beat it is to have Biden out in public doing challenging things. A halfway decent debate performance would dispel the doubts about his competence.
So, the Biden campaign should welcome debates. They would destroy Trump's biggest chance of winning.
Unless Biden really is incompetent...
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