Mr. Loury says he "politely declined" an invitation to sign "A Letter on Justice and Open Debate" published by Harper's on Tuesday. Endorsed by some 150 liberal academics and writers, it denounces President Trump as "a real threat to democracy" before criticizing leftist repression.
"I declined for two reasons," Mr. Loury says. "First, I'm not 'on the left' and felt no need to signal solidarity with the left before criticizing cancel culture. And second, I don't view Trump as the greatest threat to democracy in this country." The truth, he adds, is "quite the opposite. It has been the refusal of the left to accept the democratic outcome of 2016 which precipitated the intolerance about which [the signatories] were complaining. So I did not sign."
Mr. Loury is a hard man to pigeonhole. He belongs to no party and says he isn't "partisan in the electoral process," so "'on the right' doesn't quite suit me." Yet on the issues that he cares about most -- race, inequality and social justice in America -- he is, he says, "right of center for sure, and considerably right of the center of opinion amongst African-Americans."
Parsing the politics of black America, he says that the prevailing orthodoxy requires him to support the payment of reparations to descendants of slaves, to assert that "voter suppression" today is comparable to Jim Crow, that the overrepresentation of blacks in prisons is "ipso facto an expression of white supremacy and structural racism," and that preferential treatment is "entirely appropriate, and indeed imperative, as a matter of racial justice."
A black person who takes issue with these premises is largely ostracized. Here, an impassioned Mr. Loury delivers a small speech without pausing for breath: "If you don't think that systemic racism accounts for the high rate of outside-marriage births amongst African-American women, if you don't think the school-to-prison pipeline cultivates the incarceration of black youngsters, if you have doubts about affirmative action, if you think self-reliance is important, if you think the coherence of the family is an elemental aspect of any social group's being able to function adequately in the world, if you're religious, and if you think that blacks' obeisance to the Democratic Party is unhealthy for their long-term political interests -- you'll be dismissed as being on the right. And that's where I find myself."...
"I became disillusioned," he says, "with a lot of the rhetoric. I came to think that the incarceration issue is vastly more complicated than I'd come to regard it." Black people in cities needed protection from the criminals in their midst. Individuals had to be held accountable for their lawbreaking. "The left's deterministic argument -- 'Well, there's poverty, so of course there's going to be crime' -- left out human agency, and it left out morality."...
There is certainly some discrimination in policing and the courts, he says. "But it can explain maybe 15% or 20% of the gap between black and white incarceration rates, not the whole thing." Most of the difference, he insists, turns on the behavior of people. "If you want to call that racism, then you're calling everything racism."
July 15, 2020
Why did Glenn Loury refuse to sign that "Letter on Justice and Open Debate" published last week in Harper's?
From "The Weekend Interview with Glenn Loury: A Challenger of the Woke 'Company Policy'" (Wall Street Journal):
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"If you want to call that racism, then you're calling everything racism."
Exactly. And that's exactly what's going on here.
Well said Mr. Loury.
Well...yes.
Well said, Mr. Loury.
What is ... something that would never be published in today’s NYT?
Correct.
OK, I’ll go with Foods of Southeast Asia for $800, Alex.
"It has been the refusal of the left to accept the democratic outcome of 2016 which precipitated the intolerance"
Obviously. Kudos to Loury for good sense and uncommon courage.
Hey, Althouse: still waiting to decide in November?
Two thumbs up for Glenn Loury.
The vast majority of racism, that is, different treatment based on skin color, and group stereotyping based on skin color, could be eliminated in the US if government and academia stopped using skin color for any official purpose. Skin color makes no difference to the inherent, inalienable individual rights of any person, and should be ignored in government dealings with its citizens. Academic diversity based on skin color is a total sham, and should be repudiated as a form of actual racism.
Free speech? Yes, please, and the same for everyone else.
Good for him, and he's absolutely right. I don't see how he can put a percentage on the blame racism plays in black incarceration (especially given the myriad ways it can show itself), but we will never remove the racial imbalances by calling people whose own behavior plays such key role "victims of racism."
It's time to deracialize the issue of economic disparity. The underclass in the US have all levels of melanin. Descriptors like "black, brown and white" are obsolete and offensive.
It is also true that there are disparities in outcomes in the criminal justice system based on demographics. For example, RICO laws are enforced disproportionately against Italian Americans. Men are incarcerated at 50x the rate of women and so on.
The violent underclass is Appalachia and the violent underclass in South Chicago share a similar culture of contempt for education, contempt for the police, contempt for the nuclear family. The struggling, law abiding underclass are victimized by poor public schools, and the low expectations heaped upon them by the left.
Hey, Althouse: still waiting to decide in November?
No, Seb, she's ready to vote D now.
Truer words were never spoken. Bravo Mr Loury
For me to follow up with anything would be ridiculous. He said it for himself, but he said it as well as anyone could have. When stated so clearly, it's a wonder any grown adult could think otherwise.
Yes. The Dems' hysterical insistence that Trump could not possibly have won legitimately, and their ongoing four years' long temper tantrum over it, and their Quixotic quest to impeach him over it, has wasted valuable time in which they could have tried crafting policies counter to Trump's that might have won over voters, or in building a political consensus in Congress in opposition to Trump's actions.
Trump is not the greatest threat to our democratic republic: he is a symptom of its terminal state. No president can get away with much if Congress opposes him, but, by and large, Congress has been happy to go along with Trump. Also, that the best the Dems could (or would) do by selecting Joe Fucking Biden to run against Trump in the next election shows the rot in our system. Our "democratic choices" (sic) are limited to those in either party willing to whore themselves to the financial/military/corporate complex that is the real and enduring governing structure in place.
Even if Biden wins, do not expect much to change.
I've listened to Glenn Lowry at Bloggingheads.tv many times, almost always when he's talking to John McWhorter, and I've always enjoyed the experience.
Ken Rohleder said, "The violent underclass is Appalachia and the violent underclass in South Chicago share a similar culture of contempt for education, contempt for the police, contempt for the nuclear family."
Since I currently spend much of my time in Appalachia I perhaps know a little bit about the subject.
And the truth is that despite whatever you may have seen at the movies or on TV there is no violent underclass in Appalachia. In fact relatively speaking, there is no crime in Appalachia.
If you could superimpose Appalachian crimes on top of the black inner city crimes on either an absolute or a per capita basis, you wouldn't be able to see the Appalachian crimes.
Appalachia has a major and pervasive problem with drugs, poverty, and the breakdown of the family. And this may be a precursor of worse things to come. But it hasn't happened yet. It is still a safe place compared to Chicago or Baltimore.
If you want to call that racism, then you're calling everything racism."
Well, everything the Left disagrees with is "racist".
It's the magic word that destroys your opponents position without ever understanding or countering their arguments. It is the intellectually lazy and corrupt man's way of debating.
I was wondering why Glenn didn't sign but McWHorter did, and there's the reason. Thanks for posting this. Basically what Glenn is saying is if don't believe in 95% of the bat-shit crazy left-wing agenda, you're regarded as a "heretic" and cast out. As they go further and further to the Left, and more and more crazy, you're supposed to move left with them. Otherwise you're a "Right winger".
Some don't resist - like Biden. If you look at Biden's positions he's no different from Bernie. And he's been like that his entire career. NEVER has Biden resisted the Left-ward pull. NEVER has he stood up to the Liberal/Left, he likes spouting the party line, and he'll do so as President.
Leftists are such awful group-think schoolchild a-holes.
*Shorter leftwing group-think hivehind high preschoolers*
"Trump sucks, he's a threat! we he hate hate hate him - but really we should allow some open debate in other areas. But don't you dare support Trump in any way, or we leftwing Nazis will cancel you."
sign here___________________
Free thinking is rare in this day and age. Good for Glenn.
Nice to see - after the fact - RC criticizing the Democrats hysterical refusal to accept the 2016 results. But of course, RC was approving of it all in real time. As for the crime issue, the gap in crime rates between black and whites has existed for over 100 years. The idea that its based on "racism" has been disproved again and again. How in world does "Racism" account for the massive difference in Homicide rates between blacks and whites, or blacks and Asians? But people will continue to use this as an excuse to do nothing about the problem.
Where does this insipid letter go?
Is there a leftwing god who will grade it and give these a-holes a gold star?
Will hollywood elites throw an awards ceremony and grant the letter a golden statue?
Jeez, that's coherent. How refreshing...
The author(s) of the letter, were in full Mad Scribbler mode, rambling, confused, disjointed, parading their grievances with barely a wave from afar at coherence. It was as if a hive of buzzwords exploded in their heads: police, equality, democracy, inclusion, free exchange of information, Trump, higher education, journalism, philanthropy, and the arts. It is hard to write this display, whatever that means, without using the word "impaired".
The second time in two days someone's stood up and said something constructive. Could the tide be turning?
Prolly not...
In fact relatively speaking, there is no crime in Appalachia.
"Regional crime rates in Appalachia are lower than those for the nation as a whole."
"While the social and economic distress experienced by much of Appalachia would seem to make the region particularly vulnerable to increasing rates of crime and violence, crime rates in Appalachia are only about 50 percent (for violent crime) to 65 percent (for property crime) of the national levels."
I'd argue it's time for conservatives to embrace "systemic racism" in terms of explaining disparate outcomes.
"If you don't think that systemic racism accounts for the high rate of outside-marriage births amongst African-American women... and if you think that blacks' obeisance to the Democratic Party is unhealthy for their long-term political interests -- you'll be dismissed as being on the right. And that's where I find myself."
In popular use, “systemic racism” has become a bit of a misnomer. The politics sends people looking for the “racist” behind the curtain, when it’s really about systems that produce disparate outcomes.
Conservatives need to point out that “systemic racism” is actually embodied in the expensive but failed “progressive” policies and institutions that incentivize the breakup of the family structure, defeat wealth formation, exacerbate crime and deny access to quality educational choices.
Kind of like the “dead people” in the movie the Sixth Sense who don’t know they’re dead, aren't progressives be the mythical “racists” in the “systemic racism” they decry?
Wow, Loury is good. Welcome to the conservative center. #PrinciplesMatter
Another result of low expectations is applauding a black guy for saying sensible things.
There may not be a "rape culture", or "systemic racism", but there is a progressive condition of diversity (i.e. denial of individual dignity, denial of individual conscience, affirmative discrimination, color quotas, color blocs). One step forward, two steps backward (e.g. "1619 Projection").
Another result of low expectations is applauding a black guy for saying sensible things.
To be fair, we applaud orange guys, some white guys, too many yellow guys, and we, perhaps to often, defer to the girls, too.
"Regional crime rates in Appalachia are lower than those for the nation as a whole."
Some of the poorest neighborhoods, have some of the highest quality people, integrated communities, and observable personal responsibility (e.g. maintained homes, tended yards). Trans-social behavior may be correlated, but is clearly not dependent on economic class.
They'll get him for this.
How bout everybody writes his own letter?
I’ve occasionally read extended opinion pieces that I could wholeheartedly agree with all the way through, but even then, why would I sign something I didn’t write?
So believing anything other than racism is a factor in modern America puts you on the right?
This is essentially true in the current moral panic, but left wingers still pretend the increasing gap between SJWs and normals is the right moving right instead of the left moving left.
"While the social and economic distress experienced by much of Appalachia would seem to make the region particularly vulnerable to increasing rates of crime and violence, crime rates in Appalachia are only about 50 percent (for violent crime) to 65 percent (for property crime) of the national levels."
Gee, it's almost as if poverty isn't the root cause of crime.
"While the social and economic distress experienced by much of Appalachia would seem to make the region particularly vulnerable to increasing rates of crime and violence, crime rates in Appalachia are only about 50 percent (for violent crime) to 65 percent (for property crime) of the national levels."
The context I was speaking of is the comparison of Appalachia to areas within Chicago or Baltimore or even Memphis, TN, that have a similar level of poverty that I was speaking of when I wrote,
In fact relatively speaking, there is no crime in Appalachia.
It's when you make that comparison, but not for the United States as a whole, or even for Chicago as a whole, that Appalachia seems to have no crime.
I've listened to Glenn Lowry at Bloggingheads.tv many times, almost always when he's talking to John McWhorter, and I've always enjoyed the experience.
Same. I started listening because I'm interested in linguistics, so McWhorter's name caught my attention. I kept coming back because I love listening to Lourey. The best ones are with the two of them together, though.
It's so nice being able to listen to people talk about politics or current events without the vitriol that is so common elsewhere.
Good of Loury to refuse to sign the letter. why couldn't the letter have simply affirmed the right of individuals to express their opinions? Because the liberals who signed the letter are cowards and had to bow and scrape to the SJWs by saying Trump was the greatest danger. Even if they believe that Trump is the greatest danger, why does that have to be included in a letter about tolerance of opinion? Because they are cowards.
I listen to pretty much anything Loury says. He is one of the brightest, clearest, and most articulate people I have ever listened to. In his discussions with others, he somehow picks out the points he wants to address on the fly, describes them exactly, and presses on those point.
How creepy is this letter, anyway?
geeez. The creep factor is off the charts.
but A-OK in leftwing hivemind hive.
"Conservatives need to point out that “systemic racism” is actually embodied in the expensive but failed “progressive” policies and institutions that incentivize the breakup of the family structure, defeat wealth formation, exacerbate crime and deny access to quality educational choices."
This is basically the free markets v. command economy debate. The racism charge is designed to stop any discussion of the effectiveness of these sorts of programs.
"Nice to see - after the fact - RC criticizing the Democrats hysterical refusal to accept the 2016 results. But of course, RC was approving of it all in real time."
Umm...actually no, I was not.
I never believed the "Russian collusion" narrative, seeing it as, at first, blamecasting by Hillary to explain away (to herself) why she lost to such a shitty human and candidate as Trump--she being as shitty a human and candidate as he--and then taken up by the DNC (and echoed by the talking heads at MSNBC) to justify their own woeful loss. It's like the beliefs of fanatics that "We could not have lost, we can only have been stabbed in the back!"
I agree with Loury on most things, but if I see you guys praising one more lone black man, you already agree with, I'm gonna a scream.
You guys never challenge yourselves.
You might as well be a cult.
“if I see you guys praising one more lone black man, you already agree with, I'm gonna a scream.”.
I agree!
Being on the Right is being challenged every single day. You are called every horrible name ever invented for "evil", and everything you believe is open to be seen and challenged, unlike leftist ideas which are ephemeral, and constantly moving out of the crosshairs of challenge and debate. They simply change the meaning of words, move to some new standard. The Right has to stand where it lives, and not simply defend some imaginary never seen utopia bullshit of the day.
That was a reasonable conclusion three years ago, Robert, but we now know it was something far more sinister: a weaponization of the law and intelligence apparatuses of the US government to first defeat the candidate of the other party and then, failing that, to hide their misdeeds. Clinton's glomming onto that effort to explain her own shortcomings was just a sideshow.
Are we suppose to praise people for being wrong? Not sure why we would want to do that. I haven't generally agreed with Lowry in the past, but I think he's the one who has moved. I'm seeing that a lot lately. Many liberals are finally seeing the consequences of their soft squishiness as it runs to it's logical ends today. The principled and intelligent ones are being forced to move back right. They ran right up to the edge of the cliff, and see the carnage below, but the cliff is crumbling beneath their feet now, and some won't move fast enough.
"That was a reasonable conclusion three years ago, Robert, but we now know it was something far more sinister: a weaponization of the law and intelligence apparatuses of the US government to first defeat the candidate of the other party and then, failing that, to hide their misdeeds. Clinton's glomming onto that effort to explain her own shortcomings was just a sideshow."
Hillary's excuse-making was the germination of all that came later.
That aside, "weaponizing the law and intelligence apparatuses of the US government" is an old and oft-used tool of the powerful in our government, and of factions within it.
"If you want to call that racism, then you're calling everything racism."
To the Wokes, that's a feature, not a bug.
“if I see you guys praising one more lone black man, you already agree with, I'm gonna a scream.”.
I agree!
--------------
Ha! I see what you did there. (Turning down the volume)
The Crack Emcee said...
I agree with Loury on most things, but if I see you guys praising one more lone black man, you already agree with, I'm gonna a scream.
"If you don't agree with me I'm going to scream".
It's quite odd for adults to threaten temper tantrums but I'll tell you the same thing I tell others with similar threats:
Knock yourself out toots.
Crack Emcee: "I agree with Loury on most things,...."
LOL
I would pay money to hear you share with Loury your moronic theory that whites invented slavery, murder, rape and lying and had a 300 year head start on that stuff compared to any other race.
I'm not kidding. That would be worth $10 a head, minimum.
Althouse should arrange it.
North Carolina city votes to give reparations to Black residents as ‘removing statues isn’t enough’
"The reparations won't come in the form of direct payments to Black residents,"
Of course not.
"Hillary's excuse-making was the germination of all that came later."
Crossfire Hurricane started in the summer of 2016, if not before.
Crack: You guys never challenge yourselves.
Always painting with the broadest brush possible. Is that all you got? Yawn. You need some new material.
I’ve disagreed with Loury’s views in the past. I admire his effort here because he is demonstrating that he actually has a spine.
“if I see you guys praising one more lone black man, you already agree with, I'm gonna a scream.”.
I agree!
--------------
Ha! I see what you did there.
Clever. The Ouroboros maneuver. I missed that on first inspection.
The Crack Emcee: "North Carolina city votes to give reparations to Black residents as ‘removing statues isn’t enough’"
You'd better get over there STAT!
"The reparations won't come in the form of direct payments to Black residents,"
Rory: "...Of course not."
Oh, uh, there won't be any money, but when Crack dies, on his deathbed, he will receive total consciousness. So Crack's got that goin' for him, which is nice.
The small Appalachian town where I usually spend the summer had a crime wave about two years ago. A local yahoo got a wild hair and started robbing stores and hijacking cars and made a practice of driving by and blowing the latest stolen car horn and waving at the cops when they showed up at his latest crime. It
only lasted for about a week because everybody knew who he was. The Sheriff just couldn't pin him down. Yes, drugs were involved.
Will North Carolina now become everything Blacks ever needed. Any bets on how that works out? Maybe they can just send all the money to Planned Parenthood.
Whites can provide at least minimal housing, food, and work for African Americans, just like back in the day.
The Vietnamese boat people came to this country, for the most part, with nothing but the clothes they stood up in.
If poverty actually caused multi-generational social pathology, they would be among the most dysfunctional, violent, disorderly groups of people in the country. Instead they are among the most accomplished and successful, even compared to the white majority. Their experience as a community is a damning indictment of much of what is taught in our schools of sociology and public policy.
Sounds like a NC town has found a way to dribble cash into the pockets of their buddies, like bankers and developers. Little,if any will find its way to black individuals. But, HEY,it's all in the name of reparations,so it must be good.
Virtue being properly signaled, we can go back to sleep.
Seems like these kinds of "reparations" have been ongoing for a long while. But it sure ain't what I've been hearing Crack calling for.
(Any response should be sure not to praise him as a single black man.)
JAORE said...
"Seems like these kinds of "reparations" have been ongoing for a long while. But it sure ain't what I've been hearing Crack calling for."
Keep moving the goal posts, Folks:
You said I wouldn't see any of this shit happening.
Keep moving the goal posts, Folks:
You said I wouldn't see any of this shit happening.
And you haven't. You're flapping your gums while otha brothas are making bank. Why don't you rush to the set to collect your piece of the pie? More of that reprehensible white work ethic demanded to go get yours, instead of waiting for it to be delivered to you?
Some people wanna go through life opening their mouths for the prechewed food to be dropped in, and for their subsequent messes to be cleared away and their bottoms wiped. Aside from baby birds, the closest thing to that is veal calves.
Don't get me wrong, I love veal, but for you, I think it's not going to work out like you planned.
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