२२ जुलै, २०२०

"When the FBI arrests a mafia don on RICO charges, when DEA arrests a drug kingpin on narcotics charges, when ATF arrests an unlicensed gun dealer for illegally shipping firearms..."

"... they do not need a green light from the state. And consider for a moment the concept of a 'sanctuary city.' That is a municipality that obstructs the federal government’s enforcement of the immigration laws. The concept would make no sense if the feds needed the state’s permission – the state would simply refrain from asking the immigration authorities to conduct arrests and deportations. Cities purport to become 'sanctuaries' only because the local authorities realize that the federal government has an independent obligation to enforce federal law; they can’t prevent the feds from coming in, so they try to impede federal action.... Federal officers in Portland are not a military force. They are deputized law enforcement agents of the Department of Homeland Security and other federal police agencies. They are not, as Senator Paul misleadingly suggests, 'rounding up people at will.' They are making arrests based on probable cause that laws enacted by Congress have been violated. To my knowledge, Senator Paul has not proposed any legislation to repeal federal penal statutes that prohibit, for example, mutilating federal property, arson, and conspiring to oppose government authority by force...."

From "Portland riots – it is Trump's constitutional duty to enforce federal law and he should/The Constitution says it's the presidents job to enforce the law" by Andrew McCarthy (Fox News).

ADDED: I've encountered SO many law professors who were outraged that the Supreme Court took the position that the federal government couldn't FORCE local government officials to participate in the enforcement of federal law. I've written law review articles on this subject and participated in symposia, so I know what I'm talking about. The key case is Printz v. United States, which was about a federal law (the Brady Bill) that required local law enforcement officials to do background checks on gun buyers. The Court, in an opinion written by Justice Scalia, said that the federal government could not commandeer local government to do its law enforcement work. If it wanted background checks, the feds had to do it themselves (or get local government do it voluntarily). The dissenters — Stevens, Souter, Ginsburg, and Breyer — all said the federal government could force state and local government to enforce federal law even if they adamantly opposed the policy. It seemed that every law professor I ran into thought the dissenters were right (and Scalia was awful). If you think the feds can force local government to enforce federal law, how could you possibly think the feds can't enforce federal law unless the locals request it?

१०६ टिप्पण्या:

Dave Begley म्हणाले...

The Oregon governor and Portland Mayor are Rebels and the federal courthouse is Fort Sumpter.

I'd love to see a massive show of force by the federal government and mass arrests.

Big Mike म्हणाले...

@Althouse, I get an “Access Denied” error message when I try to follow your link.

Fernandinande म्हणाले...

mutilating federal property, arson, and conspiring to oppose government authority by force

That should probably read "peacefully mutilating federal property, mostly peaceful arson, and peacefully conspiring to oppose government authority by mostly peaceful force".

rehajm म्हणाले...

How silly. Everybody knows the President, the state, they all need to abide the rulings of a Hawaiian judge.

wendybar म्हणाले...

Right on Andrew!!! I really don't care if they want to burn their cities down, but don't come crying for bail outs. Figure out a way to clean up YOUR mess yourselves. YOU made your beds....lie in them...and vote for people who don't let rioters burn down your city next time.

Readering म्हणाले...

That's not what's happening in Portland.

Owen म्हणाले...

Andy Mac bringing the heat.

Larry J म्हणाले...

I don’t recall anyone from the left complaining when under Obama, federal agencies were buying billions of rounds of ammunition. Of course, they probably believed that was going to be used against us, not them.

Lucid-Ideas म्हणाले...

Amen. This. 1000x this. It's hilarious that these people kvetch about confederates and then have the f*cking gall to turn around and talk about 'state's rights'. LMFAO. They want Federalism when it's about things they care about. They want more government. Give it to them good and hard.

Krumhorn म्हणाले...

If only it were ok for rampaging bug-eyed leftie mobs to burn down federal buildings, we wouldn’t have to worry about the use of federal law enforcement to stop them. But then the whole point of the exercise is for the bug-eyed leftie city officials to help feed the anti-Trump fervor among the rioting Howards until Election Day.

- Krumhorn

Howard म्हणाले...

Do we have videos of the Moms doing vandalism? Keep it up, Cucks. We want more federalis gassing women of color across the USA. Trump's parting gift to the nation. I'm sure it is taking your attention away from the Covid-19 disaster he dropped on your shitshow red States.

Temujin म्हणाले...

Not much I can add to McCarthy's commentary. Except the question: If a local government fails to secure it's citizenry and, further, takes action that threatens and actually harms it's citizens, businesses, economy, and quality of life, can that local government be held accountable in ways other than the next election?

Mike Sylwester म्हणाले...

Access Denied
You don't have permission to access "http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/portland-riots-trump-constitution-law-andrew-mccarthy" on this server.
Reference #18.7606d217.1595428842.43a2668d


This happens all the time on the FoxNews website.

Copy the link inside the quote marks ("http....mccarthy"), paste the copied link into a new tap, and press ENTER.

Bill, Republic of Texas म्हणाले...

McCarthy is such a limp dick.

"They are not, as Senator Paul misleadingly suggests, 'rounding up people at will.'"

steve uhr म्हणाले...

Watched Hannity last night -- He suggests that a hundred or so federal officers can solve the violent crime problem in Chicago. In other words, the 12k strong police force, that Hannity prior to this week would praise without reservation, is incompetent to a mind boggling degree.

Of course federal officers can arrest people accused of violating federal crimes anywhere in the US (except perhaps Indian territory??). That's a red herring; who is seriously arguing otherwise? Similarly, I imagine that state law enforcement officers can arrest people accused of committing federal crimes, although in many situations the same conduct violates both state and federal law, such as firebombing a federal courthouse.

Can Trump simply sent in federal troops or federal law enforcement officers to control unrest whenever he wants without state or local permission, even if the local authorities are doing a fine job? Perhaps. This is a more interesting question and the courts will decide.

The problem is this is all politics. Why didn't he do it years ago? Why didn't he first talk to the local officials and governors to see if there might be some action that should be taken first, such as calling in the Guard? Trump needs some issue to take our minds off his bungling of the virus. And this apparently is it. Whether it will work we will find out in 4 months.

Reminds me of the bungling (to be charitable, more likely corruption) of the Epstein investigation/prosecution in Florida in 2007. Acosta said that his hands were tied because the state was going to bring charges. Ridiculous. Nothing the state did bound the feds from acting independently to ensure Justice was done.

Mattman26 म्हणाले...

Seems like an argument so obvious it shouldn't need to be made, but I'm glad he's making it.

hombre म्हणाले...

If Trump had appointed McCarthy AG as I suggested, Hillary would be in prison, there would have been no Mueller, FBI/DOJ would be cleaned up, Antifa would be in deep shit as would the Biden grifters.

Trump just doesn’t listen to me. More’s the pity! LOL.

traditionalguy म्हणाले...

FTR this issue was settled forever by 1865 by 100,00 armed men, defying States and municipalities, commanded by U S Grant and Wm. T. Sherman. They were sent from Tennessee all the way south to Savannah by the gangling lawyer turned tyrannical President from Illinois.

Ask Hans Christian Heg what that cost. It’s over.

AlbertAnonymous म्हणाले...

But when they WANT the federal government involved (because they’re In the minority in their state politics or because they’ve run out of money and need a bailout) watch out! Demand Demand Demand.

Michael K म्हणाले...

Bad link

Michael K म्हणाले...

Of course federal officers can arrest people accused of violating federal crimes anywhere in the US (except perhaps Indian territory??). That's a red herring; who is seriously arguing otherwise?

Lori Lightfoot. Come on, Steve.

Gordy म्हणाले...

As far as all of the b-on-b violence in Chicago goes, the perps eventually kill each other off. For awhile, anyway.

rcocean म्हणाले...

McCain called Rand Paul a "Whacko Bird", and frankly he is on a lot of issues. I see Tom Ridge (who helped the McCain 2008 run) and has worked the last 16 years in DC as a lobbyist, has popped out of nowhere to attack Trump for using the DHS to protect Federal facilities.

The guy - Ridge - was completely worthless during the Bush Administration, and of course is a Never Trumper and Biden supporter. I wonder how many Bushies were actually competent and conservative. SO far, my count is about three.

narciso म्हणाले...

He bought the russian hoax, although he wouldn't have reason to recuse,

Browndog म्हणाले...

When federal authorities refuse to enforce immigration law/border security, States try to enforce federal and State laws:

You cannot enforce the law! Only the federal government can!

When State authorities refuse to enforce the law against the destruction of federal property, the federal authorities try to enforce the law:

You cannot enforce the law! Only States can!

Matt Sablan म्हणाले...

"I'm sure it is taking your attention away from the Covid-19 disaster he dropped on your shitshow red States."

-- TIL: New York, New Jersey and California, 3 of the top 5 COVID states are Red States.

Sebastian म्हणाले...

"The Constitution says"

Isn't that, like, more than 100 years old or something? Anyway, very quaint to invoke the Constitution when the point of the revolution is to do away with it.

Which McCarthy knows, of course. He was a little befuddled in the early days of the collusion hoax, but his eyes are wide open now. Like Althouse, he now sees what he's observing.

Carol म्हणाले...

I read at SCC that it's the police union president who wrote the feds asking for intervention.

Chew on that. There were 50 cops injured in one night, and one might lose an eye.

They need help.

Gusty Winds म्हणाले...

Last night at 6:02pm Chicago Mayor Lori Lightfoot tweeted, “Under no circumstances will I allow Donald Trump’s troops to come to Chicago and terrorize our residents”.

At 7:30pm a gunfight at the OK Corral broke out on the south side at 79th and Morgan between two rival gangs at a funeral of a murder victim. Fourteen people shot. I think the total for the day was seventeen after sixty over the weekend.

Mayor Lightfoot is leaving the Wicker Park neighborhood for a $2 Million, 9 bathroom house on the Northwest side, so live among the well protected woke with people.

Big Mike म्हणाले...

@Mike Sylwester, I got to the article by going through RealClearPolitics.

Mike Sylwester म्हणाले...

Do we have videos of the Moms doing vandalism? Keep it up, Cucks. We want more federalis gassing women of color across the USA. Trump's parting gift to the nation. I'm sure it is taking your attention away from the Covid-19 disaster he dropped on your shitshow red States.

Howard, calm down!!!

Ambrose म्हणाले...

If you think the feds can force local government to enforce federal law, how could you possibly think the feds can't enforce federal law unless the locals request it?

Leftist politics has passed the point where consistency matters.

cubanbob म्हणाले...

steve uhr as always when it comes to Trump you get cause and effect backwards. Chicago police can do the job effectively if the Mayor and the prosecutors were to do their jobs. However the real party to be held responsible are the governors. Cities and counties are subdivisions of the States. It is the responsibility of the governors of the states to make sure their subdivisions maintain law and order. That Trump is enforcing federal law is what he is supposed to be doing. To the extent that Trump has to overreach to some degree is entirely the fault of the governors for allowing their subdivisions to act lawlessly and Trump can argue the constitution requires the federal government to insure a republican form of government for the states. In short the governors of Oregon, Washington, Illinois and New York are the parties responsible for the continuing anarchy in their States.

Michael K म्हणाले...

Being a leftist means logic is unnecessary.

Iman म्हणाले...

If you think the feds can force local government to enforce federal law, how could you possibly think the feds can't enforce federal law unless the locals request it?

No one said they were consistent...

Drago म्हणाले...

Li'l Stevie Uhr: "Of course federal officers can arrest people accused of violating federal crimes anywhere in the US (except perhaps Indian territory??). That's a red herring;"

Uhr is now lying about what the other lefties like readering and Howard are lying about.

Creating layer upon layer of layer of lues is probably the better lying strategy....though those darn videos are certainly complicating the delivery of the lefty lies.

Recall that Howard us still pushing the Lafayette Park Chemical Weapons lies while the video has been out the ebtire time showing ni officers wearing any masks at all.

But you cant fool Howard! Those were invisible masks!

Next up for Howard and readering: Feds are carpet bombing peacefully protesting families having picnics in parks!

MayBee म्हणाले...

A lot of these same people want Trump to impose a Federal Mask Mandate. So figure out that line of thinking.

Drago म्हणाले...

Li'l Stevie Uhr: "Acosta said that his hands were tied because the state was going to bring charges."

More lies. Lies on top of lies.

Acosta testified before Congress, under oath, that he was told by Federal agencies that Epstein was "above his (Acostas) paygrade".

Not a single democrat challenged Acosta on that point....almost as if they had been told not to press that point...

But do go on Steve. Its like Covington Catholic all over again.

Nichevo म्हणाले...

hombre said...
If Trump had appointed McCarthy AG as I suggested,


Kidding, right? McCarthy had to be dragged to the FBI's mess, and his nose rubbed in it, before he realized/accepted/admitted that their shit stank.

PM म्हणाले...

Personally, I'd prefer the destruction...er...protests to continue w/o Fed intervention until the cities require FEMA.

Drago म्हणाले...

Readering: "That's not what's happening in Portland."

(Waves hands)..those videos of rioters setting fire to Federal buildings aren't real at all....not real at all....

Craig म्हणाले...

Althouse must have thought she was joining a community of critical thinkers when she became law school faculty. How disappointed she must have been to realize that the majority of scholars in this community care more about politics than about logical arguments and fair application of the law.

Critical thinking is liable to get you labeled as "alt-right" these days.

Bilwick म्हणाले...

Basically, it's bad if Orange Man does it; good if the Annointed (to use Thomas Sowell's term for the statist "liberal" pseudo-Elite) does it. I believe in the traditional theology that preceded the Cult of the State, this was known as Antinomianism.

Ken B म्हणाले...

It is amazingly easy to gaslight Americans about their constitution. A few month ago Achilles and his clueless myrmidons though quarantine by the states was illegal.
Andrew Sullivan linked to a long detailed thread about why that video of an “arrest” (it might have been an extraction) was illegal. But of course the writer never considered the person was being arrested on charges for prior behavior. You don’t need to be actively committing a crime to be arrested!

Mike (MJB Wolf) म्हणाले...

Get a clue, Uhr. The gangs control the aldermen who control the police its the Chicago way.

MadisonMan म्हणाले...

If you think the feds can force local government to enforce federal law, how could you possibly think the feds can't enforce federal law unless the locals request it?
The answer depends on who occupies the Executive Branch at the State and Federal levels.

Iman म्हणाले...

I'm sure it is taking your attention away from the Covid-19 disaster he dropped on your shitshow red States

Howie doing his low-T Andrew Cuomo cha-cha...

n.n म्हणाले...

The Planned/unPlanned paradox. They want to abort and keep the baby, too.

Left Bank of the Charles म्हणाले...

The complaint in Portland is that the feds aren’t properly identifying themselves, are detaining people without probable cause, and are using excessive force such as the beating they gave the navy vet. McCarthy doesn’t address that.

madAsHell म्हणाले...

I wonder if the dissenters were swayed by the gun control aspect of the decision.

Would we have the same set of dissenters if the issue were federally-compelled, locally-executed background checks for abortions?

Me thinks not!!

Temujin म्हणाले...

Jeez, Howard. How do you do this? Is is that you wear a bag over your head when you read the news, or watch videos? There's got to be some catch as to how you ingest your information. Or, you must share your sources. I'd love to look at todays Highlights for Children.

You know- I try to stay away from these internal commenter battles that take place here on Althouse, but sometimes I have to hold up my hands and say, "Whoa there, Bruh. The only things you got right were the spelling of the words 'Moms' and 'USA'"(extra points for that one).

Yes- there are videos of the moms attempting to set the Federal Courthouse on fire.
I'm sure you meant to spell Federal Homeland Security Agents, and not Federalis. Been watching too many 'B' movies where the people are fighting The Man.

Regarding Covid, here's your shit show- repeated from yesterday:
Total combined Wuhan deaths to date in Florida, Texas, and Arizona: 11,987
Total Population of those states: 58.6 MM

Total combined Wuhan deaths to date in New York, New Jersey, and Michigan: 54,490
Total Population of those states: 38.6 MM

Even you can probably figure out where the shit show has been playing.

Aside from that, great set of comments.

Leland म्हणाले...

I'd prefer the federal government had less laws to enforce, but I'd still want them to enforce the laws regarding our border and who is in the United States lawfully as a citizen or visitor. As ICE is involved in Portland, that tells me quite a bit about the laws they are enforcing. And did Nancy Pelosi really tweet that these law enforcement officials are "unidentified" when they are wearing unit patches and proper insignia?

Birkel म्हणाले...

My question is something akin to what buwaya might ask:

Why does Althouse assume any of the arguments are made in good faith, excepting her own?
It is all lies.
The lies are told in pursuit of power.
The liars have not been held to any account.

Also, RBG is a racist.

Lee Moore म्हणाले...

I think you are being a little unkind to the liberal Justices, madAsHell.

The question of federal commandeering authority over State and local authority is highly nuanced, and fact dependent. The liberal Justices in Printz looked at the facts and sensibly dissented. If the current liberal Justices were presented with a federal attempt to commandeer State and local authorities in support of abortion restrictions, then stare decisis would rule.

You can get to any answer you like from any starting point, once you're armed with both stare decisis and a living constitution. All you need to do is tell the Costitution when to get up and dance, and when to lie doggo.

Jeff Weimer म्हणाले...

I wonder, did these law professors have a sudden Strange New Respect for Scalia when this precedent got in the way of trying to force sanctuary cities to enforce immigration law?

Nah, of course they didn't; they probably still hated him. And they probably didn't even link this to their previous insistence about background checks.

Douglas B. Levene म्हणाले...

@LeftBank writes: "The complaint in Portland is that the feds aren’t properly identifying themselves, are detaining people without probable cause, and are using excessive force such as the beating they gave the navy vet. McCarthy doesn’t address that." Those anecdotal facts are not relevant to the issue whether the federal government has the legal authority to protect federal property and to arrest people who are vandalizing federal property. They might be relevant if there was evidence that the feds were systematically arresting people without probable cause or systematically beating peaceful protestors, but there's no such evidence.

Jupiter म्हणाले...

"They are not, as Senator Paul misleadingly suggests, 'rounding up people at will.'"

Perhaps not, but they are reported to have forced a man into a car without stating a charge, and later released him without charge, after holding him incommunicado in a federal facility. These guys don't know how the game is played, and they are going to fuck up and make the assholes look like victims. Trump should put guards on federal facilities, arrest people who are videoed attempting to damage them, and let Ted Wheeler go on torturing his police force until they all quit. We don't need Portland.

rehajm म्हणाले...

Trump needs some issue to take our minds off his bungling of the virus

How did he bungle it exactly?

Gospace म्हणाले...

I can easily agree that the Federal government cannot force state governments to enforce federal laws. Also I agree that state and local governments have no authority to block federal law enforcement efforts. Don't have to cooperate, but active blocking is tantamount to open rebellion.

Where I have a problem is that suddenly, during the Obama administration, states and localities were forbidden from enforcing federal laws. Selectively forbidden. Suddenly- they couldn't arrest illegal immigrants, AKA invaders, for being here illegally and holding them for the feds. Immigration suddenly could only be enforced by only federal agencies, the that quaint little part of the Constitution that said one of the duties of the President is that he shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed was not only ignored, but overturned by unconstitutional executive orders that instructed agencies NOT to enforce the law.

steve uhr म्हणाले...

Drago is making shit up per usual

Acosta was told to lay off by other federal agencies? Why would a US Attorney do that? Apart from DOJ, what fed agencies do you think can tell him what to do? None.

As for his confirmation testimony, since you have raised it several times, again you are making things up. I listened to the relevant part -- two rounds of questions from Tim Kaine. Acosta said nothing about being told it was "above his pay grade" Ain't there. Just like your mind.

Listen if you are interested in reality:

https://www.c-span.org/video/?425697-1/labor-secretary-nominee-outlines-policy-priorities-confirmation-hearing&start=4405

(at 1:46:50 and at 2:20.30)

He also didn't say at his resignation press conference that he was following instructions of some other agency. He said that his hands were tied by the state's actions, which is bullshit.

You're like Trump .. constantly making shit up and then after time believing your own lies. I'd pity you if you weren't such an asshole.

madAsHell म्हणाले...

I think you are being a little unkind to the liberal Justices, madAsHell.

I've met a handful of judges. The whole idea of lifetime appointments needs to be re-visited. I'm convinced lifetime appointments only attracts the petty, and shallow folks that couldn't find work elsewhere.

Smells like academic tenure!!

Hey!! Don't forget to use the Althouse Amazon portal right there underneath the profile pic of our hostess!!

Gahrie म्हणाले...

Build a wall around Portland. Let anyone come out, but mothing and no one go in. It'll all be over in a month.

Douglas B. Levene म्हणाले...

@Left Bank: I am at this moment listening to the argument for a TRO in the DC Oregon, and the State has almost no evidence to support the claim that the Government is systematically arresting people without probable cause. There is just one arrest at issue, Mr. Pettibone's. The judge is asking the Government whether there was probable cause / reasonable suspicion to detain Mr. Pettibone.

Char Char Binks, Esq. म्हणाले...

The Feds are vampires; you have ask them to come in.

JAORE म्हणाले...

Being a leftist means logic is unnecessary.

And Ray-Cist!

Bruce Hayden म्हणाले...

“The complaint in Portland is that the feds aren’t properly identifying themselves, are detaining people without probable cause, and are using excessive force such as the beating they gave the navy vet. McCarthy doesn’t address that.”

Because it is all fabricated rubbish. Find me a statute that requires the feds to put their names on their uniforms (they have numbers instead) or use agency marked vehicles. Hint. You won’t be able to, because these have been SOP with federal. TAC units for years. They don’t need probable cause to temporarily detain people for questioning either. Just to arrest them. And being a navy vet isn’t a get out of jail free card.

As for detaining people without probable cause, ever hear of a Terry Stop. I don’t think that you can graduate from LS or pass the bar w/o knowing about such. It allows for pat downs of people stopped on the street for questioning. The issue with Terry Stops is not that they are legal, but the extent that evidence turned up during the pat down can constitute probable cause for an arrest. The point is that for better than a half century, the law has accepted that stopping and questioning people on the street, and then patting them down (presumably for weapons), does not require any suspicion whatsoever. None. Zip. Zero. Nada.

Francisco D म्हणाले...

Michael K said...Being a leftist means logic is unnecessary.

Using logic is a manifestation of Whiteness and a way to enforce White Supremacy. Or so I have been told.

Our resident leftists are displaying their sensitivity to the oppression foisted on non-White minorities. Well, excepting Asians and White Hispanics and Blacks from other countries.

Rick म्हणाले...

LeftBank writes: "The complaint in Portland is that the feds aren’t properly identifying themselves,

Right. The fact that this mythology is easily disproved is why McCarthy does not bother addressing it. Also unaddressed: Zeus's opinion on whether federal intervention is legal.

Anagram Margana म्हणाले...

Obviously it's a relative thing to the left. Heads we win; tails you lose. Kinda like a living breathing Constitution.

effinayright म्हणाले...

"Critical thinking is liable to get you labeled as "alt-right" these days."
**********

But....but..just yesterday conservatives were being accused of being anti-intellectual!

Jason म्हणाले...

<< Ask Hans Christian Heg what that cost. >>

Ask John Bell Hood. He'll tell you: An arm and a leg!

exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil म्हणाले...

The mayors of Portland and Chicago can always stand in front of a schoolhouse door, like George Wallace did. He didn't think the Feds had any business sticking their nose into local goings-on either.

Birkel म्हणाले...

Will Yankees like Dave Begley please learn how to spell Fort Sumter?

Where the fuck does that 'p' come from, Dave?

Mark म्हणाले...

"The point is that for better than a half century, the law has accepted that stopping and questioning people on the street, and then patting them down (presumably for weapons), does not require any suspicion whatsoever. None. Zip. Zero. Nada."

The allegations are not about questioning on the street, it is about being put in a van and taken somewhere without being charged or formally arrested.

The feds aren't patting people down and asking a couple questions in open view in the street.

Ann Althouse म्हणाले...

“ Bad link”

Fox makes its own links bad.

Google some text and you’ll get there.

Drago म्हणाले...

I am surprised Li'l Stevie Uhr hasnt accused the Covington Catholic teenagers of being involved in the Epstein case.

But then the day is still young.

Expect to see a gang rape leader Kavanaugh included in Stevie's next go round.

Michael K म्हणाले...

teve uhr said...
Drago is making shit up per usual

Acosta was told to lay off by other federal agencies? Why would a US Attorney do that? Apart from DOJ, what fed agencies do you think can tell him what to do? None.


Steve, I was not happy about Acosta either but there is evidence that Ms Maxwell's father was a Mossad agent and may have had serious connections with US and UK intelligence agencies. I have seen speculation, and I suspect you have too, that she was running Epstein as some sort of agent. Your puerile accusations do no good for your posturing as a lawyer. She might well be some sort of intelligence asset and is probably in danger from the powerful people she knows something about. It also pretty clear that you lefties are pissing in the wind with your attempts to link Epstein with Trump.

Nonapod म्हणाले...

Fox makes its own links bad.



https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/portland-riots-trump-constitution-law-andrew-mccarthy - probably won't work
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/portland-riots-trump-constitution-law-andrew-mccarthy.amp - (the mobile version) probably does.

Vance म्हणाले...

You know, I live in Utah. The people in Utah have had a long, long history with the question of whether the Federals can police an unwilling population. Short version: the Feds can do whatever they want.

All you idiots whining about abuses in Portland should go back to, say, 1885, 1890ish Utah and see what real abuse was like. Manhunts, forcing spouses to testify against each other ,stripping the right to vote, to hold office--all legal, all upheld.

My great great (not sure how many, actually) grandfather was hunted down by the federal police forces and jailed for years.

So don't come whining about how the Feds are doing something illegal. Heck, we haven't even suggested taking away the rights of antifa and BLM members to vote. Supreme Court upheld that one, 9-0. I say we try it out: if you are a BLM member or supporter, you lose your right to vote. No one has ever overturned that decision....

Fritz म्हणाले...

I find that sometimes a Fox link won't work the first time, but will the second. It doesn't make any sense but it seems consistent.

Bruce Hayden म्हणाले...

“ The allegations are not about questioning on the street, it is about being put in a van and taken somewhere without being charged or formally arrested. ”

We are currently binging on Castle TV shows. The average episode involves a series of interactions where the detectives identify someone of interest, Beckett (the supervisor and love interest of Castle) orders her two minions (junior detectives under her supervision) to “go pick them up”. Next scene is that person sitting in their interrogation room, at which time Beckett, along with Castle (there because he plays poker with the NYC mayor) interrogate the witness, until they get their next lead. Rinse and repeat. The difference with that and a show like Blue Bloods, is that the detectives there have to do their own dirty work. There, the parties of interest are given the choice of answering there, or down at the precinct. This is present in one form or another on pretty much every police detective show on TV. Even reality police detective shows like “The First 48 Hours”.

The point here is that detectives giving people of interest to their investigations a choice of answering on the street, or at the precinct, is commonplace. Sure, once at the precinct, they may continue to not answer the detective’s questions, and after a reasonable amount of this, have to release them. Some places, like apparently NYC, define “reasonable” as under 24 hours.

There is a line between being sufficiently to be questioned, and being under arrest. You, of course, need probable cause for an arrest, and at that time, Miranda rights are applicable, and anything said by the arrestee between time of arrest and the reading of their Miranda rights to them can be excluded (along with any forbidden fruit resulting from such) at trial. Miranda rights, Due Process, etc though don’t come into significant play until the arrest.

The issue that the left is trying to create here then is whether the federal LEOs need to give their people of interest, whom they want to question, the choice of answering their questions on the street, or while in temporary police custody. But that puts the LEOs in an impossible position. They can, of course, walk up to the people they want to question on the street, and give them the choice of where they want to answer the questions. But experience with BLM/AntiFA is that they will immediately be mobbed and attacked by others of the same persuasion in the area. And, if they forcibly try to take the person of interest elsewhere in order to safely question them, the other BLM/AntiFA militants in the area will attack the LEOs, trying to liberate the person that they are peacefully trying to remove. The SOP for federal LEOs then, in contentious situations like this, is the snatch and grab that you are complaining about. This is the least violent way of doing this, in situations like those they are facing in places like Portlandia. The alternative is giving the BLM/AntiFA militants a heckler’s veto over who can be questioned (or arrested).

Birkel म्हणाले...

All of the people using "arrest" when they mean "detain" should kindly STFU.

It is perfectly legal to detain witnesses to crimes.

Seriously, I cannot stand the level of ignorance of the comments.

RMc म्हणाले...

I'd love to look at todays Highlights for Children.

Goofus or Gallant?

Birkel म्हणाले...

Mark just "knows" that the feds must stay where the mobs are.

That way, the mobs have a fighting* chance.

*pun intended

n.n म्हणाले...

Using logic is a manifestation of Whiteness and a way to enforce White Supremacy. Or so I have been told.

Yes, its diverisitist, some claim it is an example of rabid diversity. Also, humanitarian, principles, science, self-defense, due process, individual dignity, individual conscience, personal responsibility, reconciliation, sacrifice, delayed gratification, etc.

madAsHell म्हणाले...

Fox makes its own links bad.

That doesn't make sense. I've always been told those links were money, and I'm sure our hostess understands this as well.

I'm thinking the updated links also represent updated content. Having said that, I'm really surprised someone hasn't found a work-around. It seems like the project would pay for itself.

PubliusFlavius म्हणाले...

jimmy 'the traitor' comey

is a

Piece

Of

Shit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fKAsvJrFes

Lady Justice has been raped
Truth assassin
Rolls of red tape seal your lips
Now you're done in

Metallica-....And Justice For All

http://ace.mu.nu/archives/389262.php#389262

Susan म्हणाले...

That was then. This is now.

Consistency is for losers

Joe Smith म्हणाले...

It seems like the MO of the feds is always carrot and stick. They get the localities and states used to getting sweet, federal cash. Then if the localities and states balk, they threaten to close the spigot.

But I believe some judge ruled they can't do that anymore.

Chuck म्हणाले...

Althouse;

I would view it as a privilege, to debate you and Andy McCarthy and Ken Cuccinelli on this topic. I think we could do so civilly, intelligently and productively.

The person who cannot do that, is Donald Trump. Trump’s bloviating about how he is going to clean up Portland and Chicago and Detroit (Detroit! Where there has been no rioting and zero looting, and where our Levin Federal Building, two international border crossings, a CBP office, a regional FBI office, an IRS center, etc., are all functioning as normally as possible in these pandemic times) if local Democrats won’t do the job. It is Trump who is claiming a broad federal police power, and doing it in a most ham-fisted way.

Trump is talking to Joe Lunchbucket, who might think it makes sense that federal police are entitled to take over if President Trump thinks things are out of hand. But Joe Lunchbucket might not think that, if the President was named Obama. Which is why Joe Lunchbucket should never be s US District Court judge, and should never run a US Attorney’s office or head a federal agency.

Jim at म्हणाले...

feds aren’t properly identifying themselves

Well, that would certainly explain why 38 of them were recently doxxed, wouldn't it? You know, if nobody knows who they are and all that.

Jupiter म्हणाले...

I watched some video of a bunch of people in camo arresting a guy on the streets of Portland (it may well have been Pettibone). They did not have their act together. When other people came up and started videoing them, they clearly did not know how to handle it. They decided to hustle the guy into a van. I doubt very much that they had a plan for what to do if he resisted, and other people surrounded them. They'd have freaked and gotten violent, like they did with the Navy guy.

The Portland Police have been dealing with these fuckers for years now, and both sides know the game like chess masters studying openings. Sticking a bunch of untrained federal agents into that pile of shit is a bad idea. And why? To what end? Let them burn downtown Portland, if that is what the duly elected mayor of Portland prefers.

Kirk Parker म्हणाले...

Althouse, the answer to your closing question is: It's Different When We Do It.

Francisco D म्हणाले...

Chuck said...
Althouse;

I would view it as a privilege, to debate you and Andy McCarthy and Ken Cuccinelli on this topic. I think we could do so civilly, intelligently and productively.

The person who cannot do that, is Donald Trump


No Chuckles. The person who cannot do that is Chuckles the LLR Clown. He is a dishonest lying obsessive who probably needs significant mental health care.

Ken B म्हणाले...

Awful, even for Biden https://twitter.com/postpolitics/status/1286027909908570112

Drago म्हणाले...

LLR-lefty and Democrat Whitmer Re-election Chairperson Chuck: "Althouse; I would view it as a privilege, to debate you and Andy McCarthy and Ken Cuccinelli on this topic."

LOL

What a buffoon you are.

Go find another child to threaten.

Drago म्हणाले...

Birkel: "Seriously, I cannot stand the level of ignorance of the comments."

And then LLR-lefty Pro-Biden Chuck pops in to lower the intelligence level even more.

Drago म्हणाले...

Michael K (to Li'l stevie uhr): "Your puerile accusations do no good for your posturing as a lawyer."

Li'l stevie's "performance" over 4 straight years of lefty hoax after lefty hoax did even worse for his posturing.

Gospace म्हणाले...

Fox doesn't allow hot linking from any other site. I don't know why. Copy the link, then hit "paste and go" and you'll be right there. Weird they do that. I'd thing they'd want to identify where they're getting hot links from and sending thank you notes for increasing their traffic and ad revenue.

Michael K म्हणाले...

Jupiter said...
I watched some video of a bunch of people in camo arresting a guy on the streets of Portland (it may well have been Pettibone). They did not have their act together.


Practice makes perfect.They will get better. Sherman needed some OJT before Atlanta.

Birkel म्हणाले...

Mark just "knows" that the feds must stay where the mobs are.

That way, the mobs have a fighting* chance.

*pun intended

Birkel म्हणाले...

"That Navy guy" got his hand broken because he was reaching toward the police.
Dave Chappell already covered that ground.

Quit buying the Left Wing bull shit.

Jon Ericson म्हणाले...

Arrest them

Michael K म्हणाले...

Chuck just lost his Never Trump buddy in Ohio. I wonder how long it will take to hit Kasich?

Matthew Borges, 48, of Bexley
Former Ohio Republican Party chairman Matt Borges founded a super PAC to elect Democrat Joe Biden.

He made headlines just last month for announcing he would be voting for Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden and creating a PAC to help defeat President Trump.


Whoops ! I'm sure they have not run out of grifters, though.

Chuck म्हणाले...

Michael K;

Matt Borges was involved with the Right Side PAC. I have not been involved with that group. I don’t know Matt Borges. I’ve never met him. What I know about the Right Side PAC is what I read in news reports.

Tom म्हणाले...

Althouse, you must know that a sound logical argument will not work on these folks. They want a specific outcome and aim to get it. Any rational argument is made purely as cover.