... Bolton has filled this book’s nearly 500 pages with minute and often extraneous details, including the time and length of routine meetings and even, at one point, a nap. Underneath it all courses a festering obsession with his enemies, both abroad (Iran, North Korea) and at home (the media, “the High-Minded,” the former defense secretary Jim Mattis). The book is bloated with self-importance, even though what it mostly recounts is Bolton not being able to accomplish very much. It toggles between two discordant registers: exceedingly tedious and slightly unhinged....
In another book by another writer, such anecdotes might land with a stunning force, but Bolton fails to present them that way, leaving them to swim in a stew of superfluous detail. Besides, the moment he cites as the real “turning point” for him in the administration had to do with an attack on Iran that, to Bolton’s abject disappointment, didn’t happen....
... Trump decided to call off the strikes at the very last minute, after learning they would kill as many as 150 people. “Too many body bags,” Trump told him. “Not proportionate.” Bolton still seems incensed at this unexpected display of caution and humanity on the part of Trump, deeming it “the most irrational thing I ever witnessed any President do.”...
[H]is chapter on Ukraine is weird, circuitous and generally confounding. It’s full of his usual small-bore detail, but on the bigger, more pointed questions, the sentences get windy and conspicuously opaque.... ... Bolton — known for what a 2019 profile in The New Yorker called his “tremendous powers of recall” — said it was too much for him to fully understand....
It’s a strange experience reading a book that begins with repeated salvos about “the intellectually lazy” by an author who refuses to think through anything very hard himself.
June 18, 2020
John Bolton's book "has been written with so little discernible attention to style and narrative form that he apparently presumes an audience that is hanging on his every word."
According to the review in the NYT, written by Jennifer Szalai.
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Maybe he was paid by the word.
Ha! Someone who had read his previous book said this one will be like reading meeting minutes. I guess he was right.
So the marquee claim is the concentration camps comment. It appears Bolton was not present at the meeting where he alleges Trump said it. As far as I can tell there are no witnesses, no transcripts, no recordings of this alleged comment. There is only John Bolton who wasn’t there saying it happened. For two million bucks.
The book was designed as move #2313 in a coordinated deep state effort to get Trump.
Regardless of your personal views, it's suspicious he didn't testify when he had the chance.
Anyone with two brain cells to rub together can see what this is.
I doubt that this book will fundamentally have any impact however.
Too long, too verbose, too boring.
Or maybe - like so many have said - it's about the money.
Republican insider he is, but Republican advisor, he shall never be again.
Trump takes down another pillar of the deep state.
Actually he just does his thing and they take themselves down.
Good to see a president who isn’t stupid about starting wars. It’s been awhile.
"... Trump decided to call off the strikes at the very last minute, after learning they would kill as many as 150 people. “Too many body bags,” Trump told him. “Not proportionate.” Bolton still seems incensed at this unexpected display of caution and humanity on the part of Trump, deeming it “the most irrational thing I ever witnessed any President do.”...
IMPEACH!
That’s a lot of words to say, “Trump isn't the warmonger I hoped he would be when I begged him for the job.” Democrat’s hate him. Independents dislike his blunt aggressiveness. Republicans don’t trust him. Who is his audience? Is there that many people who will buy a book to read why someone they dislike also dislikes someone they hate?
"“Too many body bags,” Trump told him. “Not proportionate.” Bolton still seems incensed at this unexpected display of caution and humanity on the part of Trump, deeming it “the most irrational thing I ever witnessed any President do.”"
Caution and humanity! Obviously, "misconduct." Impeach that guy.
But unexpected by Bolton or the author? in either case, why? Trump ran on no stupid wars. He never did anything to lead anyone to expect use of force at the first opportunity. Trump weighing body bags as part of the mix seems utterly rational, even if some of us would not have minded greater use of force.
if you attack Trump but you have lost even the NYT...
Regarding the pull-quote Althouse used as a headline: yes that is mighty presumptuous! Hence my question above, who is he writing for?
... Trump decided to call off the strikes at the very last minute, after learning they would kill as many as 150 people. “Too many body bags,” Trump told him. “Not proportionate.” Bolton still seems incensed at this unexpected display of caution and humanity on the part of Trump, deeming it “the most irrational thing I ever witnessed any President do.”...
Yeah, they really don't understand the rest of the country if they think this will play poorly.
... Trump decided to call off the strikes at the very last minute, after learning they would kill as many as 150 people. “Too many body bags,” Trump told him. “Not proportionate.” Bolton still seems incensed at this unexpected display of caution and humanity on the part of Trump, deeming it “the most irrational thing I ever witnessed any President do.”...
Yeah, they really don't understand the rest of the country if they think this depiction of Trump will harm him with voters.
Bolton: "I don't think Trump is "fit for office"
Throwback to the Pres. George W. Bush era, where Republicans wanted war with Iraq. Nobody wants him now, and nobody believed him ever.
sunsong: "Bolton: "I don't think Trump is "fit for office"
LOL
sunsong comes out strong for Neocon Perma-War....to "own" Trump!
Unexpectedly.
So not filled with juicy anti-Trump details promised by Sludge?
Sunsong = racist.
Can it still be used by the Anti-Trump Democrats on my Facebook feed? (Goes to look).
Yes.
Mr Wibble: "Yeah, they really don't understand the rest of the country if they think this depiction of Trump will harm him with voters."
sunsong is very very upset that Trump didnt kill 150 Iranian civilians over a shot down drone.
Perhaps some quiet time in meditation would help sunsong get over this lost opportunity for expanded conflict.
Ken B: "So the marquee claim is the concentration camps comment. It appears Bolton was not present at the meeting where he alleges Trump said it. As far as I can tell there are no witnesses, no transcripts, no recordings of this alleged comment. There is only John Bolton who wasn’t there saying it happened. For two million bucks."
So far thats been more than sufficient for ARM, Li'l Stevie Uhr and sunsong The Would Be Mad Bomber.
Well recall the reaction when there was that hit on suleimani.
So the marquee claim is the concentration camps comment. It appears Bolton was not present at the meeting where he alleges Trump said it. As far as I can tell there are no witnesses, no transcripts, no recordings of this alleged comment. There is only John Bolton who wasn’t there saying it happened. For two million bucks.
Someone will be along shortly in this comment section demanding that Trump sit down for depositions and testify under oath about this conversation. At which point it will be all over for Trump!
Bolton still seems incensed at this unexpected display of caution and humanity on the part of Trump, deeming it “the most irrational thing I ever witnessed any President do.”...
It's funny, I remember during the Bush years I used to find myself (somewhat reluctantly) defending many of the the hawks and Neocons like Bolton whenever they were accused of wanting war simply for war's sake. I also used to believe that it was possible to win the hearts and minds of the denizens of these Islamic countries through occupation, harshly quelling any insurgency, and demonstrating our Western values just like we did in post WWII Japan and Germany. I no longer believe those things, or at least I no longer believe that it's was worth the high costs in terms of blood, treasure, time, and political will in order to achieve Westernization.
Nobody cares what Bolten thinks. The big question is why was he appointed in the first place. He's seems to be a selfish grand-stander, who instead of being grateful that Trump gave him a NSA job, seems angry that Trump didn't listen to him, and let him be POTUS.
Bolten is the only NSA to write a book while the President he served is STILL in office. He knew his book could only be published if it attacked Trump, so its full of nasty jibes. Now, even the left-wing NYT's thinks its crap, which really means its crap x10. Of course, during the shampechment, Bolten played coy and his minions were the leading Democrat witnesses. No loyalty at all - to anyone - except Bolten.
Brian: "Someone will be along shortly in this comment section demanding that Trump sit down for depositions and testify under oath about this conversation. At which point it will be all over for Trump!"
That someone has already self-identified:
ARM.
John Bolton just shows how spiteful he is.
Not a very nice person.
I actually see Bolton's actions as helping Trump, and just showing how out of touch the Neocons are.
I don’t understand. ARM gave it glowing reviews. I haven’t been so disappointed since I read the last Alan Furst novel....
Nobody seems to give Trump credit for solving the NK problem, keeping us at peace, TRYING (in the face of Democrat/Media/Establishment attacks) to get us out of hell holes like Syria and Afghanistan, and rebuilding our Military.
In foreign policy, he's been the best peace-loving, common sense, President since Reagan. I shudder to think what Hillary would've done. Or what Biden WILL do.
I get so tired of this tittle tattle gossip and "And then INCREDIBLY Trump said..." It seems everyone today is either part of the Speech Police, or gossipy old biddy's. We don't know all the crazy, absurd things Obama, Clinton, and Bush I and II, said in office, because none of their NSA's wrote a book attacking them. We do have the Nixon tapes, and Nixon said some crazy/absurd things in Private.
In the end, it doesn't matter what ANY President says in private conversation. All that matters is what they DO, and what they say in PUBLIC. For all we know, Trump ran around saying "Iran? Kill 'em all" before deciding NOT to attack. Does it matter that he changed his mind? No. All that matters is he decided NOT to attack, and why.
I'll give her credit.
Jennifer Szalai @jenszalai
I highly recommend John Bolton's book for anyone who enjoys being bored and condescended to
Bolton seems to be past his "Use by" date.
I admire John Bolton's mustache, who used to get quoted on Proteinwisdom.com back in the beforetimes when all that is happening now was prophesized, but it seems the man himself wrote a quickie book solely to make money. The mustache should have edited it more, apparently.
To sum it up, Trump uses a military power build up to protect America and insure peace and prosperity. And Bolton cannot comprehend that strategy. The key difference probably arises from the 9/11 hit on NYC. And one of the men knows who did the murders most foul.
It toggles between two discordant registers: exceedingly tedious and slightly unhinged...
So it accurately reflects the mind of the author. How refreshing!
I also used to believe that it was possible to win the hearts and minds of the denizens of these Islamic countries through occupation, harshly quelling any insurgency, and demonstrating our Western values just like we did in post WWII Japan and Germany.
I did, too, but I put it as learning if Arabs can rule themselves without tyrants.
They can't.
Bolton was pissed because Trump didn't want more wars, and is bringing Troops home.
after The New York Times reported that his forthcoming book would confirm the quid pro quo. from the first post.
[H]is chapter on Ukraine is weird, circuitous and generally confounding... said it was too much for him to fully understand....
So the NYT lied during the impeachment. I'm shocked.
Bolton has managed to do something unique. He has pissed off the Democrats, the Independents and the Republicans. He hit a home run. At least I'm glad to know thanks to Bolton that Trump isn't a warmonger and Trump has managed to inflict more pain on Iran, Syria and North Korea than he past two predecessors without resorting to major combat operations. Pretty remarkable for a guy the elite consider a moron.
So the outcome of Bolton's book will be to remind everyone Trump overruled his National Security team and didn't get into a war with Iran.
It will remind people that Trump is more concerned with keeping the approval of the American people than playing out some ideological struggle on a global stage.
That's what the deep state means when they say Trump is very focused on his reelection prospects.
Mike (MJB Wolf) said...
Democrat’s hate him. Independents dislike his blunt aggressiveness. Republicans don’t trust him. Who is his audience? Is there that many people who will buy a book to read why someone they dislike also dislikes someone they hate?
Well, given that it's currently #1 on Amazon, clearly the anwser to that question is a full throated "Yes, absolutely." To the Trump derranged it doesn't matter if an anti-Trump book is actually well written, or even particularly that true, or if the person making the claims is someone that they may find despicable. Hatred of Trump supercedes all rationality and reason. Remember Michael Avenatti? He was a media darling depsitethe fact that it was glaringly obvious that he was an opportunistic grifter.
Did he use Hillary's ghost writer?
That he had 500 pages ready to go last summer, just days after being fired, shows that the book was his reason for being hired. That is, Bolton was obviously writing this all along. You don’t just whip out 500 pages of boring dreck overnight. It takes time. Time he was supposed to be spending on ensuring our NatSec was producing good useable intelligence for Trump. He’s not just disloyal to every employer. He’s disloyal to The People and the Country he too was empowered to protect. Bolton = Vindeman = Ciaramella = Comey = Rosenstein = Strok = Omorosa = Mooch = Kelly et al. All people using Yrump and his job offer as a way to harm POTUS and causing damage to the body politic along the way.
The book is bloated with self-importance
Bloated and self important describes Bolton accurately.
They could have added tedious blowhard for additional accuracy.
Sounds like a book written by someone who thought he was the 'smartest guy in the room' and is always right and anyone who thinks different is a total moron.
There are a lot of us (sic) like that, but we generally don't write books expressing our own shortcomings.
Bolton has done an evil thing here. He took an oath & signed an agreement to keep the information that came to him as part of his job secure & secret. There was no codicil to the agreement that says "...As long as I'm not too pissed off at the Motherfucker-In-Charge". If he didn't like what he was seeing & doing, he could quit & work for someone else, but he's still bound to secrecy. The intelligence & defense agencies that Bolton claims to love would fall apart if everyone in them decided to be as loosey-goosey about their agreement to secrecy as Bolton.
I'm sorry, but shit like this really, really riles me up. I had a clearance for some years as a younger man, and I saw co-workers lose their jobs for the most trivial infractions. Now, clowns like Bolton, & HRC & others just think that their balls are too big for them to bother with the rules that bind all us plebes. Fuck these people. I hope Bolton ends up in Leavenworth.
Maybe he was paid by the word.
Well, we did just get 172 pages on what "sex" means, so maybe this book isn't so wordy.
"...tedious and slightly unhinged.."
Sounds like an apt description of anyone so eagerly inclined to send others to die for their BEleifs(looks at curry leaf john), I would go further.
Bolton sqwuacking like stinky chicken shit
....stain should stuff his piehole with a bit of modesty, and reflect before assaulting the public with his stupidity ever again.(as if the bush years weren't enough, gtfo outta here bolt on)
Good take on Bolton's state of mind by CTH. He was in over his head dealing with the likes of Mnuchin et al.; had absolutely no understanding of Trump's economic approach.
Lucid: it's not how compelling the book is to folks who actually read it, the impact depends on how well it is spun and counter-spun. Anyone with half a brain cell understands this.
Schiff is helping Trump counter-spun by talking about calling Harry Reems to testimony at Congress.
While Bolton is not my favorite character what he reveals for the most part in not new. Like Pompeo most people know the president is full of shit, that the love letters to North Korea were just for show and would amount to nothing, that he cares only about himself, and his donors and less about the country. Maybe that he asked China to collude in the next election is new, but for Trump supports nothing matters except to deregulate the country for profit. It seems their Moto is death before intelligence.
I just finished the Cabeza de Vaca memoir.
Now there's a story!
"Well recall the reaction when there was that hit on suleimani." Yeah, this too.
Bolton for me lost all credibility when he played footsie with the Ukrainian "collusion" putsch by the democrat's last year. Had he testified he would have had little say as he was not involved and was playing along because he got butt hurt over being ignored and fired. This book was drummed up just to hurt Trump and will be read by no one, not even the butt hurt liberals.
Pres. George W. Bush era, where Republicans wanted war with Iraq
They wanted a war with Iraq, maybe. Bush W. ended the war with Iraq, which had started in the early 90s and persisted for a decade under a ceasefire. Then Iraq War 2.0, or a greater Middle East war, started with the Obama administration.
Big WAR Bolton applauded by the leftwing.
Someone will be along shortly in this comment section demanding that Trump sit down for depositions
And there will be progress in the 16 trimesters of witch hunts and warlock trials that passed with protests, riots, redistributive change ("looting"), violence, and other civil bullshit.
Arabs and Israelis have been at each other's throats for 4,000 years.
Since 1948 thousands of DC insiders have tried to bring peace to the middle east without success. Some might say they don't try very hard because then they might have to find honest work.
It used to be that Saudi Arabia would not let you in the country if you had an Israeli stamp in your passport.
Donald Trump becomes president and in 2 years we have 115 direct flights between Saudi Arabia and Israel.
We have Israelis training Saudi Special Forces and vice versa. Lots of US military and tactical operations (SWAT) teams too. See the King Abdullah II Special Operations Center http://www.kasotc.com/
We have Saudis and Israelis developing some really cool, really special, weaponry and sharing it with each other. And with the US.
We have relative peace in the Middle East for the first time in history.
The Boltons of this world are really, really, really, pissed about this.
John Henry
Because I have lost whatever faith I ever had in the NYT, I fully expected they would try to supply oxygen for at least a few days to whatever the worst is that Bolton has to offer.
The fact that they are already making fun of him has me puzzled.
... Trump decided to call off the strikes at the very last minute, after learning they would kill as many as 150 people. “Too many body bags,” Trump told him. “Not proportionate.” Bolton still seems incensed at this unexpected display of caution and humanity on the part of Trump, deeming it “the most irrational thing I ever witnessed any President do.”...
Imagine just out of it Bolton must be to think this way. To say that he (Bolton) thought that it was proportionate in that it sent a stern message to the Iranian regime that needed to be sent is one thing, but to call it the "most irrational thing"? That's a real stretch, since I think that Trump in this case had international law on his side. There weer no deaths from the drone attack on Saudi Arabia, and Iran had not claimed they were behind it. To haul off and start killing Iranians right & left would have made the US look like warmongers (or, since this is the Mideast, more warmongery than normal).
Bolton is starting to look like one more example of the kind of Washington denizen that Trump seems to suss out a-plenty, i.e. the established, highly-credentialed "expert" who upon closer examination turns out to be a whack-job.
Blogger narciso said...
Well recall the reaction when there was that hit on suleimani.
A bit off topic but speaking of that. Carlos Osweda had an interesting thread the other day on this. He hypothesizes that Sulemani was killed by the US using a Saudi/Israeli kinetic warhead. No explosive, just a nosecone full of cement. And that the casing is some sort of frangible metal or plastic.
Thus, you have the car, with the roof caved in and shredded (Pictures at the link) but little of no evidence of explosion and no collateral damage. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EamsVshUwAA4ppI.jpg If there had been an explosion, one would expect evidence of heat/blast and the roof to be expanded out. No evidence of blast and the roof is pushes in
He posits that it is a 2 step process. First a miniature drone, very small and not very noticeable, is landed on top of the car. The serves as the homing signal for the missile.
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1272731886570229760.html
He doesn't mention it but a few weeks ago there was a video clip going around of a drone disguised as a hummingbird to take pictures of butterflies without scaring them. Very realistic. It could have fooled me if I had not known to look. Seems to have fooled the bees. So next time a bird lands on your roof, bail out FAST!
https://youtu.be/lWOySU_hAz0
John Henry
The fact that Bolton is a crazy hawk who had no business advising a president on national security does not mean that he didn't take great notes and reproduce them meticulously in his book (to the extent he was permitted by the NSC's vigilent censor). Don't know why people think his crazy hawkishness undermines the accuracy of his portrayal of an unfit POTUS. Especially when his stories are consistent with so many others emanating from the White House and Trump's response is consistent with his schoolyard bully response to all criticism.
Papier Dossier 2.0 seems to support what we expected of Trump, a departure from the doctrines and policies of his predecessor.
Explain why we should believe Trump and not Bolton? Because trump has such affinity for the truth?
Isn't it funny how criminality is found inside every Trump utterance. Yet real criminal acts by Biden and Hillary are not an issue.
150 is a lot of body bags, but they weren’t for black bodies, so Trump is a racist.
Years ago, I was duped into supporting Bolton when the Dems blocked his appointment to some post, maybe it was the UN. Don’t remember; don’t care. I was mildly pleased to see that he had finally gotten his chance when OrangeMan took him into the tent. It wasn’t long before OrangeMan booted him, and it was then I realized that the guy was nutz.
I was lured in by all those Jewish neocons like Kristol, Podhoretz, Boot, Rubin, of whom now despise and oppose Trump. Frankly, they are the reason Trump was elected.
Bolton is an assclown, and everyone (including me) now knows it.
- Krumhorn
So Bolton gives his book to the NYT before it has Been cleared for classified information? Is that even legal?
Bolton probably thought when he was writing the book that Trump calling off the strikes was going to be a major hit on Trump's effectiveness in the Middle East. But the January strike on Quaseem Soleimani flipped that, and makes Bolton come off more obviously as the one too willing to use force, while Trump ends up looking more strategic, since the kill shot on their general has kept Iran quiet for the past five months (as has their COVID-19 problems from working with the Chinese to try and get back at Trump).
I am still dead from Net Neutrality's repeal.
I am amazed, happily so, that the NYT's reviewer laid into him. Still, I despise, detest, and distrust the NYT. (The WaPoo, too.)
So, there is now a consensus across the political spectrum from far Left to Trumpist Rught, that John Bolton should not be in a position of responsibility.
They may differ on the 'why', but not on the conclusion.
OT:
Terry Crews points out why Biden is a white supremacist asshole.
"The problem with that is, black people have different views,” Crews said on the CBS show The Talk. “When you’re white, you can be Republican, Libertarian, Democrat. You can be anything. But if you’re black, you have to be one thing. Even Joe Biden said, ‘Hey man, if you don’t vote for me, you ain’t black.'”
The actor warned against “gatekeepers” of blackness.
“Blackness is always judged,” he explained. “It’s always put up against this thing, and I’m going, ‘Wait a minute: That right there is a supremacist move. You have now put yourself above other black people.'”
BURN.
Sunsong = racist.
I think you mean racist warmonger.
So, there is a god and she punishes those who are self-important and disloyal by exposing them for what they are.
Moderators on vacation again.
Still waiting for Drago to denounce Trump for his weakness on China.
"President Trump said to Xi Jinping, “You’re the greatest Chinese leader in 300 years,” later upping that to “the greatest leader in Chinese history.”
As Jerome A. Cohen says, Xi is presiding over the most oppressive, most brutal period in China since the Cultural Revolution under Mao. For one thing (and not a small one): The Party under Xi has thrown more than a million Uighurs into a new gulag."
yes I think the job wenr over to another globalist drone, just like with wolfowitz, someone the oligarchs and warlords were happy with,
Dr. Mike Karen is always on call even if the moderators are taking a break
Bolton said ...
"Beijing’s repression of its Uighur citizens also proceeded apace. Trump asked me at the 2018 White House Christmas dinner why we were considering sanctioning China over its treatment of the Uighurs, a largely Muslim people who live primarily in China’s northwest Xinjiang Province.
At the opening dinner of the Osaka G-20 meeting in June 2019, with only interpreters present, Xi had explained to Trump why he was basically building concentration camps in Xinjiang. According to our interpreter, Trump said that Xi should go ahead with building the camps, which Trump thought was exactly the right thing to do. The National Security Council’s top Asia staffer, Matthew Pottinger, told me that Trump said something very similar during his November 2017 trip to China."
Bolton said ...
"As the trade talks went on, Hong Kong’s dissatisfaction over China’s bullying had been growing. An extradition bill provided the spark, and by early June 2019, massive protests were under way in Hong Kong.
I first heard Trump react on June 12, upon hearing that some 1.5 million people had been at Sunday’s demonstrations. “That’s a big deal,” he said. But he immediately added, “I don’t want to get involved,” and, “We have human-rights problems too.”"
Bolton said ...
"I hoped Trump would see these Hong Kong developments as giving him leverage over China. I should have known better. That same month, on the 30th anniversary of China’s massacre of pro-democracy demonstrators in Tiananmen Square, Trump refused to issue a White House statement. “That was 15 years ago,” he said, inaccurately. “Who cares about it? I’m trying to make a deal. I don’t want anything.” And that was that."
“Russia is out of control, and the leadership knows it,” said Trump. “That’s my problem with Gorbachev. Not a firm enough hand.”
Said Trump’s interviewer, “You mean ‘firm hand’ as in China?”
Trump answered, “When the students poured into Tiananmen Square, the Chinese government almost blew it. Then they were vicious, they were horrible, but they put it down with strength.
Bolton said ...
"Trump was particularly dyspeptic about Taiwan, having listened to Wall Street financiers who had gotten rich off mainland China investments. One of Trump’s favorite comparisons was to point to the tip of one of his Sharpies and say, “This is Taiwan,” then point to the historic Resolute desk in the Oval Office and say, “This is China.” So much for American commitments and obligations to another democratic ally."
ARM. Obviously you don't understand n-dimensional chess that Trump plays at the Grand Master poobah level. He is just trying to make Chairman Xi comfortable so that he can ambush him later on when he makes really good deals because the Chinese emperor thinks that Trump Revere's him which is what Xi covets most above all is the admiration of the esteemed infallible President Donald J Trump.
JAY NORDLINGER said ...
“In today’s pre-2020 election climate, Trump has made a sharp turn to anti-China rhetoric,” writes Bolton. So true. And his supporters have followed suit. I have noticed this even down at my level. What I mean is this: For years, my Trumpite critics bashed me as a warmonger for my views on the PRC. But in the last few months, some have claimed I’m in bed with the Party.
A whip-lashing pivot.
Who has standing under the Bolton NDA to sue to take his advance and royalties?
Mary Beth - oh thank you. Yes.
So Trump called off the airstrike on Iran because it might result in too many dead Muslims, but he's cool with a concentration camp for Muslims in China. Sure, sounds legit.
steve uhr said...
Explain why we should believe Trump and not Bolton? Because trump has such affinity for the truth?
We should remain cruelly neutral. We don't have any good reason to choose one over the other and so it is fool-hardy to waste time jumping to conclusions about what we should think if such a thing happened at all
Arm How do you explain this CNN(!) headline? "Trump signs Uyghur human rights bill on same day Bolton alleges he told Xi to proceed with detention camps"
Wild Chicken, I started reading that last year but I realized I preferred the 9 minute version by lord Buckley about"the Gasser" is here:
https://youtu.be/XJycYHXDPfo
Beijing Boy: "Still waiting for Drago to denounce Trump for his weakness on China."
We'll need to see that "weakness" first Beijing Boy.
Beijing Boy: "Still waiting for Drago to denounce Trump for his weakness on China."
We'll need to see that "weakness" first Beijing Boy.
Most people's favorite quote (so far):
... Trump decided to call off the strikes at the very last minute, after learning they would kill as many as 150 people. “Too many body bags,” Trump told him. “Not proportionate.”
We learn Trump has a sense of proportion. Who knew!
It goes from bad to worse for Beijing Boy ARM.
Not only did Trump publicly call out the ChiComs for their prison camps in July of 2018, camps that ARM to this day denies even exist, but JUST YESTERDAY Trump signed the Uyghur Human Rights Policy Act.
Again, that was just yesterday! This must be like a nightmare for ARM who had been banking for years on Steele dossiers and Adam Schiff made up transcripts.
So what does this Act do?
Places sanctions on Chinese officials participating in the mass incarceration of ethnic Uyghurs and other Muslim minorities in the country in concentration camps, where they reportedly endure slavery, rape, organ harvesting, and other atrocities.
Again, these are concentration camps that ARM refuses to believe actually exist.
Well, a Beijing Boy is going to "Beijing", isnt he?
So now we are going to see if ARM is more intellectually adaptable than Howard and Inga who, when confronted with the actual facts, still parrot their original talking points as if nothing else has come to light.
Inga for instance still writes and links as if it is March of 2017 in terms of Trump/russian collusion status.
My prediction: ARM will do precisely the same here.
He's already far too invested in the already destroyed hoax China narrative to back off now.
Goodness, another kick right to ARM's groin (which no doubt requires micro-targeting):
"Three US Navy aircraft carriers are patrolling the Pacific Ocean at the same time. And China's not happy"
"Collin Koh, research fellow at the Institute of Defense and Strategic Studies in Singapore, said China reacted strongly because the presence of the carriers conflicted with Beijing's portrayal of the US Navy as a force crippled by the coronavirus pandemic.
"It goes against the narrative that China wanted to put forth that the US was under stress in the Pacific," Koh said."
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/06/15/asia/us-aircraft-carriers-pacific-china-intl-hnk-scli/index.html
LOLOLOLOLOL
Meanwhile, thats not the only trouble ARM's beloved ChiComs are in:
"Australia exposes China’s many hidden hands
China's activities and investments in Australia face tough new scrutiny as bilateral ties deteriorate"
https://asiatimes.com/2020/06/australia-exposes-chinas-many-hidden-hands/
No wonder ARM is in panic mode.
Drago said...
We'll need to see that "weakness" first
To see what is in front of one’s nose needs a constant struggle. George Orwell
JUST YESTERDAY Trump signed the Uyghur Human Rights Policy Act.
A proportionate response and he stands with people for life. The hunters, judges, and planners are despondent.
Here's a fun test for Beijing Boy ARM given Trumps signing the Uyghur Human Rights Policy Act just yesterday:
ChiCom Uyghur Concentration Camps, do they exist ARMor do you still believe they do not?
Remember, ARM still denues there are No-Go zones of islamic extremists in Europe even though European law enforcement and politicians continue to openly discuss the problems there.
If I had to bet, I would guess ARM will continue to deny islamic No-Go zones exist in Europe AND ChiCom concentration camps exist for Uyghurs.
ARM: "To see what is in front of one’s nose needs a constant struggle. George Orwell"
Orwell was correct about ARM which is why ARM must pretend Trumps July 2018 statement against ChiCom concentration camps, Uyghur Human Rights Policy Act signed YESTERDAY, trade deal squeeze, sanctions against ChiCom officials, increasing US Navy presence in Asia never happened at all.
As expected: The Full Inga
I cant say I am surprised.
Detractors can claim whatever they want but it stretches credulity at this point to claim that Trump has somehow been weak on China lo these many years. He's the first president in decades to take any kind of real hardline stance against them with the trade war. If you believe that a President Hillary Clinton or Joe Biden would've been or would be as hard on China you're deluding yourself.
I think party of what has the opposition in such a larger is that Trump doesn't always seem to be considering his own reelection prospects. R/V, ARM, see if this fits your perception of Trump:
"In foreign policy, he's always stroking the egos of dictators. Who does that? Obviously he is pro-dictator and probably envies them the fact that they don't need to worry about reelection. And if course he's out of his league and so is his whole team - not an experienced domination among them, and Trump himself is a loose cannon at best. Then, when he's dealing with domestic issues, he's the very picture of dancing with the one what brung you - always shamelessly pandering to his base."
Let me suggest a different interpretation. In foreign policy and sometimes domestic as well, Trump uses a business negotiation framework rather than a diplomatic or political one: he doesn't telegraph his endgame even to those who voted for him, he starts with a position he knows won't fly because that way any result short of that will be a better outcome than the "nothing" that will result if one or both parties walks away from the negotiation, and he flatters those whom he wants to soften up before hitting them with something they won't like. These tactics look harebrained to some foreign policy watchers because they are so different from the "tough talk in public, concessions in private" model we're used to: Trump is doing it in the open. (This is NOT to say all his negotiations take place in private or involve no concessions at all.)
And at home, he has dedicated this term to trying to fulfill his campaign promises - the things that got him elected, that turned the support of a lot of "natural" Clinton voters to him. This is also a more businesslike than political strategy: in business, you follow through or the board removes you. In politics, it seems usually to be the case that lack of follow-through means absolutely nothing, because both parties believe they have "natural" constituencies and what will determine the outcome is a combination of the size of those constituencies and turnout. Trump's election strategy was to challenge the naturalness of at least a couple of those natural constituencies. His reelection campaign seems to be to be the known quantity who followed through on his promises. We'll see if it will be enough. Without COVID and the resulting economic disaster, it certainly seems obvious that it would have been.
Trump's Uyghur Human Rights Policy Act:
"..according to the World Uyghur Congress (WUC), one of the world’s largest organizations advocating for the human rights of the Uyghur people – is “the first legislative initiative to take concrete action to end the Uyghur crisis and hold those responsible for atrocities accountable.”
Note: If you want to understand ARM's anger at Trump for challenging ARM's Beloved and Heroic ChiComs, this Act signed by Trump yesterday explains alot.
Yeah I don't know a bay area lefty that actually believes Trump has been soft on the chinese.IF anything they catcalled him for being a bull in a china shop and too bellicose for steady diplomacy. In fact they hit Trump on everything else and avoid talking about China as they know damn well the democratic party is in the Chicom's pocket, so why bring it up? Its a sore subject with them during this covid lockdown.
This is just another coup attempt. Russia and the Ukraine phone call didn't work, so this.
The Very Best People: Here’s a List of Everyone President Trump Hired and Then Destroyed on Twitter
Backstabbing scum.
Why do these anti-Trump morons think The Resistence will support their grift once the Orange Man is gone?
By now, ARM realizes that Trumps outspoken criticism and passing of Acts designed to call out ChiCom treatment of Uyghurs as rendered inoperative the Bolton Dossier lies that ARM was hoping to run with all the way to November.
It will be fun to see how ARM lashes out next to try and establish some momentum for Collusion 3.0.
So here's a fun game to play: with the destruction of russia collusion (& Steele dossier) and ukrainian collusion (and Schiff-ty made up transcript/dossier) and the already upon us destruction of the Bolton dossier (and China collusion), what do the readers of Althouse guess will be the next collusion locale ploy by the dems?
It has to be an unsavory nation with enough deep staters involved at all levels to craft a hoax out of thin air.
We ought to start an Althouse pool.
alien invasion, from apocalyps titan, etc,
"I haven’t been so disappointed since I read the last Alan Furst novel...."
He writes the same novel over and over. I fell for it three times.
Althouse is ducking the substance again, because it doesn't suit her agenda to have to confront Trump's conduct directly. So let's go to the David Ignatius review at WaPo. which spells out the substance:
Point 1: Foreign policy ignorance
No wonder the White House was so determined to block this book: It eviscerates Trump’s foreign policy record and exposes him, in Bolton’s words, as “stunningly uninformed.”
Point 2: re Ukraine:
In sum, he says, “the whole affair was bad policy, questionable legally, and unacceptable as presidential behavior.” This account should deeply embarrass Republican senators who offered unblinking defenses of Trump’s Ukraine actions during the impeachment trial.
Point 3: re other cases in which sound policy was subordinated to reelection concerns:
Bolton’s takeaway line: “I am hard-pressed to identify any significant Trump decision during my tenure that wasn’t driven by re-election calculations.”
Perhaps the most startling new disclosure is that Trump sought political help from China’s Xi Jinping, just as he had expressed support for a Russian email dump in 2016 and Ukrainian political favors in his famous July 25, 2019, phone call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky.
According to Bolton, in a June 18, 2019, phone called with Xi about trade matters, Trump “then, stunningly, turned the conversation to the coming US presidential election . . . pleading with Xi to ensure he’d win.” Bolton also notes that North Korean dictator Kim Jong Un at the February 2019 summit in Hanoi said that “he didn’t want Trump to do anything that would harm him politically,” to which Bolton adds in his text, “Oh great,” one of the snarky literary asides scattered throughout the book.
Poin4 4: Overall performance in foreign policy:
Bolton offers a damning review of nearly every theater of Trump’s foreign policy: His coddling of Kim “made me ill”; his last-minute reversal of a retaliatory strike against Iran after the shoot-down of a U.S. drone was “the most irrational thing I ever witnessed any President do”; his withdrawal of U.S. troops from Syria was a “huge mistake”; the “slowness and lack of agility” of his Venezuela policy was “painful to watch.”
Point 5: No strategy
The abiding problem, says Bolton, was Trump’s lack of a clear vision of what he wanted to accomplish, beyond dominating the news cycle. This was foreign policy by disruption, conditioned on Trump’s view that he could charm or intimidate anyone (seemingly unaware that he was being played by the toughest and most ruthless people in the world).
Point 6: Coronavirus Failure
Perhaps the most damning comment Bolton offers, in the end, isn’t about foreign policy but Trump’s response to the coronavirus pandemic. “Trump’s reflex effort to talk his way out of anything . . . even a public-health crisis, only undercut his and the nation’s credibility, with his statements looking more like political damage control than responsible public-health advice.”
OK--there's the substance, from a conservative witness who had direct access to Trump and kept accurate notes. What do people, including Althouse, actually think about it?
This is just another coup attempt. Russia and the Ukraine phone call didn't work, so this.
What's the cliche? History repeats itself, the first time as tragedy the second time as farce. Bolten's book is farcical. MSM/Dems went with Mueller & Trump-Russia for 2 years, then tried a shampeachment over a Ukrainian Phone call and now Bolten comes along....and no one cares. Even the D's don't care anymore. Just perfunctory attacks on trump from schuemr and Pelosi along with some equally perfunctory attacks on Bolten.
This will be forgotten in a week.
Bolten ignored his NDA and published before all the classified data was out of the book. He could be in trouble, but no doubt some Judge will say its OK because Orange man bad.
""I haven’t been so disappointed since I read the last Alan Furst novel...."
He writes the same novel over and over. I fell for it three times."
I love the early ones, but I swear the last one must have been written by a hot college sophomore intern. Ah, well. Time comes for us all.
Stephen: "So let's go to the David Ignatius review at WaPo. which spells out the substance:"
Ignatius!!
One of the original "media" collusionists pushing the hoax dossier and every lie since!
Why not just go straight to the DNC for the "truth"......
.....trick question!
See if you can figure out why....
the one sent in france again, the enteresting thing about night soldiers, is it began in unfamiliar territory, bulgaria, before segueing to spain and france,
rcocean: "Bolten ignored his NDA and published before all the classified data was out of the book. He could be in trouble, but no doubt some Judge will say its OK because Orange man bad."
Roberts will rule it a tax and allow it....but only for Trump admin members who violate their govt NDA.
ignatius has his own named fiction, the paladin, out it's about a cia operative that infiltrates a media operation, can you say fusion gps,
ARM is dying to be the first man off the first landing craft in the first wave of the China invasion. He's angry that Trump is denying him that honor.
Stephen quotes David Ignatius who couldn't find his ass with two hands and a searchlight. Ignatius writes for the Daily Bezos and if Senile Joe were president and did everything Ignatius said that Trump did he would be praising Senile China Joe.
cubanbob: "ARM is dying to be the first man off the first landing craft in the first wave of the China invasion."
If ARM were the first man off the first landing craft in the first wave of the China invasion...he would immediately turn around and gun down the Americans.
That's the only conclusion I can draw from ARM's long term passionate defense of all things ChiCom.
Drago, I cited Ignatius because he provides the core nuggets of Bolton's testimony in convenient form. Unless you think he has misquoted Bolton, you should address the nuggets.
To take only one example, Drago, what do you make of Trump, in the middle of trade negotiations with China, begging Xi to help him get reelected. Fine with you?
Hi Cuban Bob. Ignatius quotes Bolton. So the real question is what basis you have to believe that Bolton is wrong.
Drago, what do you make of Trump, in the middle of trade negotiations with China, begging Xi to help him get reelected. Fine with you?
I assume you were there and heard it ? Try not to be a clown.
It's over. Trump is China's lapdog, Bolton has made it clear.
Negotiating a trade deal the Trump Way:
“Make sure I win,” Trump allegedly told Xi during a dinner at the G20 conference in Osaka, Japan last summer. “I will probably win anyway, so don’t hurt my farms.… Buy a lot of soybeans and wheat and make sure we win.”
President Donald Trump encouraged Chinese leader Xi Jinping to continue rounding up Uighur Muslims into the concentration camps where they are tortured, separated from their families, and “reeducated.”
No one else was in
The room where it happened
No one really knows how the game is played
The art of the trade
How the sausage gets made
We just assume that it happens
No one really knows how the
Parties get to yes
The pieces that are sacrificed in
Ev'ry game of chess
We just assume that it happens
In God we trust
But we'll never really know what got discussed
Click-boom then it happened
And I wanted what I got
When you got skin in the game, you stay in the game
But you don't get a win unless you play in the game
Oh, you get love for it, you get hate for it
You get nothing if you
Wait for it, wait for it, wait
God help and forgive me
I wanna build
Something that's gonna
Outlive me
I wanna be in
The room where it happens
The art of the compromise
Hold your nose and close your eyes
We want our leaders to save the day
But we don't get a say in what they trade away
We dream of a brand new start
But we dream in the dark for the most part
Dark as a tomb where it happens
Lyrics from the musical "Hamilton," - "The Room Where It Happens"
Stephen, I'm a reluctant Trump supporter - I didn't like his campaign, I thought he was in it for the publicity, I voted for him because I absolutely couldn't stomach voting for Clinton, and I have been surprised, but pleased, by how many campaign promises he has been keeping and trying to keep.
My response to your Ignatius-based synopsis of Bolton's main points comes down to this: Bolton was, in Doonesbury terms, an "old China hand" (not using China literally here, just referring to Duke) - a traditional foreign policy guy, part of the establishment. He was and is deeply offended and troubled by Trump's disruptive foreign policy style and interprets it as a lack of plan, lack of expertise, lack of discipline - lack of all the things Bolton believes are needed to run successful foreign policy. But looking at the ground truth indicates a different occur: better trade deals, increased Middle East peace and cooperation, and policies that benefit American workers. Just because something isn't "establishment" doesn't mean it's ineffective - which may seem to you too be a strange statement from a conservative unless you understand that "conservative" means "keeping what demonstrably works, leaving behind what demonstrably doesn't." Conservatives have ample reason to question Trump's foreign policy, since it is so different from the norm - but if it works, and if it helps Americans rather than furthering an inchoate cause of globalism or some such concept that sounds nice and accomplishes nothing for humans on the ground, you can bet we'll be adding it to our platform.
Stephen: "Drago, I cited Ignatius because he provides the core nuggets of Bolton's testimony in convenient form. Unless you think he has misquoted Bolton, you should address the nuggets."
"testimony"!! LOL
Uh, guess what? It wasn't "testimony".
And why should I care if Boltons laughable 3rd party hearsay summaries are transcribed by hoax dossier/hoax collusion moron Ignatius?
But wait, Stephen has more gadfy-esque questions!
stephen: "To take only one example, Drago, what do you make of Trump, in the middle of trade negotiations with China, begging Xi to help him get reelected."
I find it laughable that you idiots really believe you can simply cross off "Ukraine" and pencil in "China" for your next collusion hoax as a way of protecting Biden who raked in millions from his China and Ukraine corruption.
Hey stephen, why dont you ask me what I think of Ignatius' claims that Trump paid Moscow hookers to pee on hotel beds while you are at it?
Why not just relaunch all your previous hoax lies?
Stephen: "Hi Cuban Bob. Ignatius quotes Bolton. So the real question is what basis you have to believe that Bolton is wrong."
Cubanbob probably doesnt believe Boltons 3rd party hearsay and non-underoath Adam Schiff-ty like confabulations.
Stephen: "Hi Cuban Bob. Ignatius quotes Bolton. So the real question is what basis you have to believe that Bolton is wrong."
Cubanbob probably doesn't believe Bolton's 3rd party hearsay and non-under oath Adam Schiff-ty/Michael Wolfe-like confabulations designed to sell books and advance the deep states efforts to use any lie to beat Trump.
I liked Bolton a lot better back when his job was telling the UN to get stuffed. He seemed to do ok at that.
Now he comes across as just another whiner. As someone cleverer than me recently remarked, the subtitle of every Washington memoir is "They Should Have Listened To MEEEEEEE!"
Trump as tough on China: That dog won't hunt. I have commented several times this year that Trump did not take action on Coronavirus early on in part because he did not want to upset agricultural trade negotiations with China. Bolton reveals that it was another quid pro quo. Slate now has up a nice summary of the many times since last fall Trump admitted as much at rallies.
At 1 pm Friday the public can listen in by telephone to the remote hearing being conducted by USDJ Lamberth on USA's TRO application against Bolton. Case 1:20-cv-01580-RCL.
So the reason Trump didn't take action early on COVID-19 was because he didn't want to upset an agriculture deal.
What was the reason everybody else didn't take action early on COVID-19? Sigh.
If Trump is such a menace, why not let the world know as you’re walking out the door? Why wait until your book gets published?
Bolton is just another grifter...
readering: "Trump as tough on China: That dog won't hunt."
LOL
Hopelessly dumb.
readering is just now figuring out that Trade deals require actions by both parties.
Nicely done readering!
Truly your "best" "analysis" to date.
Drago,
Trump's quoted statements are admissions and wouldn't be subject to the hearsay rule.
In any event, it appears you are immune to evidence. The case that Trump sought to trade military aid for a foreign government's assistance in sliming a political opponent was already proven both with documents and the testimony of multiple witnesses, as both Romney and Lamar Alexander conceded--Bolton's testimony, based on Trump's direct admissions, hammers it home. Where is the evidence, from any source, that supports a different narrative?
If Biden had reaped millions from China and Ukraine, why hasn't any of the responsible law enforcement agencies (which are run by Trump loyalists) or the Senate sought the relevant financial records? Only available inference--they don't exist.
Most probable inference--you are a fantasist.
Going to be a rough few months for Drago. Let it go buddy. Go out drinking with your pals. Get a life.
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