He was the lone holdout on the mask requirement. He seems to be framing mask-wearing as a free-speech issue. He has a point of view and his form of expression is not wearing a mask as he takes his place in the legislature, and he characterizes himself as representing "millions" who are being "silenced" if he cannot "say" what he has to say in the form he prefers.
From the position of his antagonists, he is engaging in an action and the action is dangerous, and that outweighs his interest in saying what he has to say in the form he wants to use. It's a neutral rule that wasn't, presumably, motivated by the desire to suppress a viewpoint, so it's highly unlikely Bailey could win the argument that his free-speech rights are violated, but he isn't claiming to make a legal argument, just to protest in the language of freedom.
And yet, Bailey is suing the governor — J.B. Pritzker (D) — over the lockdown (he "won a temporary restraining order against Pritzker’s stay-at-home order last month, which only applied to him").
On Wednesday, Bailey told The Post that he believed the mask rule... was “not about health” but was instead “just another Democrat bullying tactic.” He said he would wear one if he were concerned for his health, but he isn’t, and doesn’t like being told that he must. “This whole thing that it’s concern for other people? I don’t buy that at all,” he said....I understand that skepticism. The idea that the mask protects other people works to deprive the individual of the ground to say I will decide for myself how much risk I want to take and what freedom not to cover my face means to me. That doesn't mean the experts aren't right when they say it's for other people. It just means that people decide for themselves what to believe and this is the sort of thing that can make you skeptical. It's so convenient.
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247 comments:
1 – 200 of 247 Newer› Newest»The warning on the carton of cloth/paper masks we purchased said they will not stop the Covid19 virus. That wearing one of these cloth/paper masks will not prevent you from passing the virus to others nor prevent you from catching the virus from others. The respirator mask that encloses your eyes and has cartridges to breath through is required to stop viruses and prevent infection.
As opposed to the governor who was actually killing people with his policies
"That doesn't mean the experts aren't right when they say it's for other people."
OK, start with masks. Then what else can I be compelled to do "for other people"?
I have a lot of experience in CBRN (Chem, Bio, Rad, Nuc) and I can tell you this mask thing is complete bs. Both in what most of the masks are made of and how they're being worn. Hell, even a full NIOSH respirator or NSN gas mask isn't going to protect you correctly from an airborne threat (which hasn't been confirmed for COVID) if it's not worn properly.
The only real way to protect anyone if they're so worried is to go out in full MOP, and barring that doing what health workers treating these patients are doing which is basically wearing trash-bags and rain coats with face-shields.
The masks protect no one, and are like so much security theater, there to make you and others feel good. Now making people feel safer isn't necessarily a 'bad' thing...it has usefulness. But please don't try to pass the mask off as science. It is most definitely not.
If this happened in Congress, would the “speech or debate” clause apply?
There is no precedent, no predicate for restraining the healthy to “protect” the vulnerable. This temporary madness is subsiding as we return to normal and learn that this is just another bad flu year, like ‘58-59 and ‘68-69 were. Slightly less deadly than those two so far. People will refuse to keep playing dress up for the same reason they want out of this fake quarantine.
Wearing a paper/cloth mask to stop a virus is like putting up chain link fence over your windows to keep out flies.
Is there really a wolf this time?
The mask requirements would go over better if the CDC hadn't spent the beginning of the epidemic saying that masks were useless.
If you aren't sick, how does wearing a mask protect other people?
If there are all these people who are sick but experience no symptoms, aren't we at a point where we see the threat as a lot less than what the published numbers by the media try to show?
No soup for you!
I guess Illinois elected a millionaire in hopes he wouldn't end up in prison, but Chicago is the City of the Big Shoulders, and Chicagoans always seem to find a way.
Pritzker's niece was the little girl in A Little Princess. She's all grown up now, and I wonder how much she looks like him.
How are his free speech rights not violated?
Is he sick? If he's not sick you can't suppress his rights based on concern that he's getting people sick.
And even if he was sick, I'm not sure you can suppress his rights that there's a 30% chance he'll infect someone with a virus that has a 99% or greater on average survival rate.
Now, I agree the courts are likely to invert that false reality that a 30% (or lower) transmission of a 99% survival rate virus equals death, but that's only because the science it's poorly understood and we what understand is manipulated for maximum negative impact.
There's never any room for discussion of how viral transmission through immune systems strengthens populations overall in the long term. There's every reason to believe that's the way it works. Europeans shared viruses with Asia, Africa, the Middle Easr, so when they encountered the native Americans their collective immune systems were much stronger and adapted to all kinds of bugs that wiped out the socially isolated native Americans.
The idea that the mask protects other people works to deprive the individual of the ground to say I will decide for myself how much risk I want to take and what freedom not to cover my face means to me.
Dershowitz was on Tucker Carlson last night arguing in favor of mandatory vaccination on the basis of protecting other people under certain conditions, as distinct from incurring self-risk.
But if you believe in the efficacy of the vaccine, enough to make it mandatory, who is it that you need to protect from the contagion other than people who have chosen not to be vaccinated themselves?
I live in Florida and we're slowly but surely getting out and around again down here. Some more than others. I've been to stores, and a few other places and honestly, I'm seeing about half the population wearing masks, the other half not. At first (a couple of weeks ago) it bothered me and I was thinking, Who are these people? Do they have no regard for others? But I'm not feeling that now.
As the numbers get clearer, we've seen that this virus is a danger mainly to older people with existing health issues. The younger people without pre-existing health issues, are fine. They may get and carry the virus, but they are not in danger to themselves (hence...universities are opening up again.)
I'm 66 but in very good health, so while I still feel like I'm 35, I know I'm not. So yeah, I'm still wearing a mask out. My wife is not ready to go out to a socially distanced restaurant, but I am. Still- I'm waiting with her. And when I go out and see people not wearing masks, I make sure I keep moving. That's all. I don't hang around. I don't hug them. I don't say, "Hey...can you please cough in the air and let me walk through it?" I keep moving. And I use hand sanitizer as soon as I get into the car. I wash with soap and water when getting home.
Life goes on. I'm not the leading age anymore. I'm a senior and I have to get used to seeing myself as in that age group. This world belongs to the young and we have to let them get on with their lives. (But we can still sneak in our own fun in our own way.)
The masks are just another form of control. It is raining cats and dogs here in Ohio and we've also had bad flooding in all neighborhoods. From my casual observation, dems I know will wear a mask until the government tells them not to. They seem to believe everything the political leaders say, as long as they're Democrats. If Trump told everyone to wear a mask, the masks would fall faster than a lie from a democrats' mouth.
In 1918, wearing a mask was pitched as patriotic--protect the troops!-- and citizens complied. And, then WWI ended and citizens revolted.
Protecting oneself from infection seems like it has never been much of a motivation to mask up.
The "action" is demonstrably not dangerous. In verbal debate, facial expressions are used to determine one's sincerity, among other things. And what is a legislature other than a verbal debating society? I have yet to wear a mask in public, and supposedly at age 64 taking metformin I'm in a high risk group.
The reality is, even in my age group, IF you're reasonably healthy, active, and have maintained a healthy Vitamin D blood level, likely by ignoring the advice or experts who tell you supplements are a waste of money, getting the dreaded covid is not a death sentence. And looking the percentage of people who get it are asymptomatic, from the cruise ships and carrier, where everyone was tested, you may never know you had it.
I don't think there is any definitive science regarding the efficacy of masks in everyday life. I could be wrong be I've yet to see it.
Seems that 99% of people that wear masks never wear gloves and don't seem to care about touching anything. I also remember all the masks during the hong kong flu of 1969. Ok, not really, I was 10 in 69, but from what I read over 100k died in the US when the US population was a smidge over 200 million. Imagine Woodstock with Hendrix doing the National Anthem with a mask on. Social distancing? Ha!
Trespassing with bodily fluids: Assault.
At this point, it really is all about control and humiliation. Square pegs get filed down.
If he's not sick, then he poses no risk to others. Does he have to prove he's not sick to avoid the mask requirement? Or does the govt have to prove he's sick to make him wear one?
A lot on display here. One, state House districts are relatively small, and he likely represents a seriously conservative district. He can't 'go too far' for his voters. This likely secures re-election and will fill his coffers for future years.
Two, national media outlets can pick and choose which state and local political incidents to highlight as an example of broader, national debates. Not surprisingly, most of these outlets opt for stories that make Republicans look bad while ignoring opportunities to use state and local Dems the same way. (You see the latter regularly featured on conservative sites, but they never seem to make onto mainstream outlets.)
He should be thinking that he will look really foolish if he now gets the virus and gets really sick. That has happened to other skeptics.
I don't wear a mask very often. I think I've said this. Today I realized that I was out walking without a coat, and my mask -- if I need it -- is in my coat pocket at home. Oh well. I see people out walking, or biking, while wearing masks and I'm just puzzled. Do they honestly think they're in such close proximity to people for so long while moving that they'll be infected?
Then I try to adopt a more charitable look: That they're going somewhere where a mask is required and they just don't want to fiddle with a mask when they get there.
I'm half-tempted to get a red mask that says "Trump 2020" on it, just to see the reaction. Or a mask that has printed in 8-point font "If you can read this, you're too close". I don't see many masks with messaging on them. I wonder why.
Doctors and other medical personnel have said from the start that wearing masks is about protecting others from any contagion we may be carrying, and not to protect us from others. When I was ill with leukemia and my white blood count was almost nil, doctors, nurses, and all visitors to my hospital room were required to wear masks to protect me from them.
This ass hat, supposedly a representative of the people, is proud that he doesn't care enough about anyone else to even slightly inconvenience himself for the benefit of others. This, of course, is a common attitude of selfish entitlement and dismissive scorn for all others in right wing assholes who imagine they are fighting an insidious tyranny. If we were to become involved in another World War, one can easily imagine these creeps refusing to turn off (or tightly conceal) their house lights to avoid attracting bomb strikes.
"You want to send me or anyone else outside the doors today, I understand. Go right ahead. But know this: If you do that, you’re silencing millions of voices of people who have had enough."
Wasn't that an episode of The Twilight Zone?
No moral, no message, no prophetic tract, just a simple statement of fact: for civilization to survive, the human race has to remain civilized. Tonight's very small exercise in logic from the Twilight Zone.
Said Rod Serling after delivering his prophetic tract with a very pointed moral and message.
He should ask everybody from the Obama administration for support. They were big on unmasking Republican officials.
His action is not dangerous. Masks are now the new virtue signal. You don’t even have to be on FB and shade in your profile pic with the virtue outline of the moment. You can wear your virtue right on your face. There are videos all over showing reporters immediately removing their masks as soon as the camera is off. New CDC school reopening guidelines are out today recommending masks for any school kid over the age of 2. As if going to school didn’t already suck enough. Poor kids. This is reprogramming people for the ‘new normal’. It is stripping us of our individuality to make us part of the collective.
Baring coughing and sneezing, it's still a little vague if normal exhalations from an apparently asymptomatic carrier can regularly yield enough virus particles for successful transmission and infection of a new host.
When it comes to mask wearing and what someone does or does not "buy," the applicable rule is the don't be a dick rule. Someone should explain it to Bailey as he stands outside the statehouse shouting about his free speech rights.
Bailey shoulda played the asthma defense. As in, "I can't wear a mask, I have asthma!
The British Government is now advising people to wear face coverings if they are out in places where it is difficult to stay at least two metres (6'6") away from others.
This is because the coronavirus is a respiratory virus, meaning it infects people when it is breathed in and attaches to cells inside the airways and the lungs.
But people who have asthma or illnesses such as chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD) or cystic fibrosis may find masks or face coverings make it hard for them to breathe.
there is a symbology in wearing the mask that likely far outweighs its benefits to others. Which is simply saying I’m a team player.
He is in effect being denied the right to say “I’m not a team player”.
Except in the case of hospital environments where it is impossible to protect a patient in any other way, when trained medical professionals wear masks, people who wear masks do it to protect themselves.
In another sense it’s a group of people who are afraid of dying that they don’t want to keep company with someone who blatantly disregards their fear of death.
It isn't about the mask. It is about the ever-increasing control demanded over the citizenry, without justification.
Then again, it also isn't about the nail.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-4EDhdAHrOg
The masks are pure Kabuki costume. Play your part but understand they do nothing for you and only help others if you are a sneezing blithering sick idiot sho should not be out and about.
Find the interview with the sainted Fauici in which with a smirk he assures us that wearing masks does not good and is a silly idea.
MadisonMan: If Trump masks took off you would see the science telling us to quit masks that they do nothing that the earlier science was wrong.
Yesterday I saw Karen's husband at a local grocery store. Of course, he had on a mask. He was also overweight. The remarkable thing was that he had on a paper tag stuck onto his shirt and it read, "screened."
Screened for what? TB? Polio? Heart disease?
And if he had been screened, why was he wearing a mask?
Virtual signaling taken to a new low.
This insanity can't stop soon enough for me.
He should frame it as a free speech issue, where he is trying to speak to people with disabilities who need to be able to read lips.
Quoting a tweet from Larry the Cable Guy:
"If masks work so good why didn’t they just give prisoners masks instead of release them?"
Seems like a valid question.
At some point are we going to turn around and say that all of the masks that aren’t being worn properly, are being touched constantly, being reused, and not washed frequently enough are vectors for sickness other than Coronavirus?
Reusable grocery bags were a known problem for food based bacteria (salmonella and e.coli) before Coronavirus put the kibosh on them.
The respirator mask that encloses your eyes and has cartridges to breath through is required to stop viruses and prevent infection.
If that were true, people would be dropping like flies. The county numbers for new infections around here are down to single digits. And geezers are still shopping. Other than for medical personnel getting sneezed on, what you say is over the top.
Quoting a tweet from Larry the Cable Guy:
"If masks work so good why didn’t they just give prisoners masks instead of release them?"
Seems like a valid question.
He should ask everybody from the Obama administration for support. They were big on unmasking Republican officials.
Thread winner!
While masks seem useful and meaningful in a clinical setting, I'm seeing many with an exhale valve which completely compromises its intended purpose of preventing the spread of the virus to others.
"This ass hat, supposedly a representative of the people, is proud that he doesn't care enough about anyone else to even slightly inconvenience himself for the benefit of others."
Cookie, I happen to believe that people who have had leukemia are contagious, even through a keyboard and a monitor. So I'm afraid I'm going to have to ask you to stop commenting here until I drop that delusion for something even more idiotic. OK? I'll let you know when it's alright to comment again. I just need to flatten your curve.
"So convenient" . . . I mean, I guess? But it's also such a minimally invasive thing to request.
I realise that smug liberals who two months ago were guffawing about how stupid mask wearers were, and how masks were just unscientific superstition have now received word that we have always been at war with Eastasia and it is anti-science to suggest masks are unnecessary, and have now turned against non-mask wearers with the fervor of a bunch of proles tearing down doubleplus ungood posters that proclaimed erroneously that we had always been at war with Eurasia. And so non-mask wearing has turned into an act of subversive rebellion against doublethink.
But come on! Yes, our experts gave us garbage advice before. But the advice they're giving now makes sense!
Maybe I'm just not "getting" the issue since I've worn flu masks in the US for years (back in February, I had to order extra masks from Amazon because to my surprise, my home supply was already depleted from last year). And I spend a lot of time in places where they're pretty normal. So for me, there's been no whiplash, no doublethink. I was wearing them back when people in DC came up to let me know in NPR-voice that masks don't actually work, and I'm wearing them now. Mask wearing is mostly just practical to me, and has minimal symbolic weight (other than a weak connotation of solidarity).
For others, like those journalists that criticise Trump for not wearing a mask, but don't wear masks off camera, and like this chap, I guess mask wearing is more symbolic than practical.
if the CDC hadn't spent the beginning of the epidemic saying that masks were useless.
I bet the CDC never robbed a gas station.
Then what else can I be compelled to do "for other people"?
"The power of Chrysler compels you", but it's actually a Subaru Catholic converter.
Robert Cook said...
Doctors and other medical personnel have said from the start that wearing masks is about protecting others from any contagion we may be carrying, and not to protect us from others. When I was ill with leukemia and my white blood count was almost nil, doctors, nurses, and all visitors to my hospital room were required to wear masks to protect me from them.
Next time you're ill with leukemia and walking around in public let me know. I won't wear a mask, but I'll avoid going near you.
We're all full of viruses, germs, fungi, and other things, all the time. Shedding them constantly and being exposed to what others have shed. And yet- remain reasonably healthy. Life expectancy in the United States 1920 was about 55 or so, it's now, a hundred years later, up to 78 or so. Without everyone wearing masks. Increased public sanitation, a relative handful of vaccines, which include the wiping out of smallpox in the wild, a working and reliable public water supply system for cities coupled with sanitary sewers and wastewater treatment, all have contributed to that. But not masks.
I guess Illinois elected a millionaire
He be billionaire, spent more that 100 million on his election. Trust fund baby, never had to work a day in his life, cheated on his property taxes to the tune of 300,000 and was caught, put the state on lock down and then sent his wife and children to Florida via private jet, they then flew to his horse ranch in Wisconsin. And a good candidate for Nan P's scorn as morbidly obese.
Yes I am resident in Illinois. Blame the grand kids.
@Howard - the tyranny isn't insidious any more. Thanks to fatheaded fascists such as yourself, the tyranny is quite open and dangerous, and growing in many states.
Troll pops up ignoring the carnage in nursing facilities from coast tocoast.
Forcing compliance on the use of masks is a way of showing everyone who is in power. It makes it clear that your rights flow from government and the government can revoke those rights at their whim, science be damned.
"If you aren't sick, how does wearing a mask protect other people?"
How do you know you're not sick? More pertinent, how do others know you're not sick? This is why I started wearing a mask, after first disdaining it. I was buying groceries and the cashier, a mature woman with a British accent, asked me why I wasn't wearing my mask. She asked politely, in a tone that suggested she was concerned for my safety, but I knew she was really asking: "Why are you making yourself a potential health threat to others?" (As I say, being apparently British, she was able to convey a lot with her understated but knowing tone.)
It hit me that I was being inconsiderate to others, particularly to workers serving the public daily in this time of rapidly spreading infections. I stopped on my way home and I bought some masks.
Wearing a mask is expected to protect based on the idea (fact) that the virus is transmitted among humans by exchange of respiratory droplets. This is not proven, as far as I can tell, so the mask mandate is just another precautionary principle play in action. Kinda like taking hydroxychloroquine when you aren't yet diagnosed with the virus.
I reluctantly wear my stupid mask around people whose comfort is important to me, even though I feel it’s largely pointless, but I’m wondering about this thing we have now where someone else’s irrational fears are sufficient to demand changes in my behavior.
Being forced to pretend as though BS isn’t BS is a problem to the psyche.
"How are his free speech rights not violated?"
How does wearing a mask inhibit his freedom to speak?
We each have a legal right to say whatever is on our minds, no matter how insulting we might wish to be. We do not have a legal right to go up to people and punch them in the face. If the masks can, to any greater or even lesser degree, impede the spread of infection, they are useful for the time being, without violating anyone's freedom of speech or movement. If not wearing masks can, to any greater or even lesser degree, broaden or accelerate the number of infections, then refusing to wear a mask is not dissimilar to punching random strangers in the face (but with potentially far worse consequences for those we "punch").
The virus is spread via the spray from your mouth, and a mask (or any covering) will greatly reduce the amount of your spray landing on other people or surfaces, which others might touch.
I'm no genius, but this seems logical to me. I don't mean to generate more comments and more moderating tasks, but what am I missing?
"I'm half-tempted to (wear) a mask that has printed in 8-point font 'If you can read this, you're too close.'"
That's genius! I'm shocked no one has produced such masks.
Things are getting worse in Milwaukee which now has the second highest number of hospitalizations in the US.
As of May 21 "A total of 51 people [in Wisconsin] were newly hospitalized with the disease, a 30-day high and above the average of 34 since DHS began reporting the data daily on April 4th."
[As of May 21] In Milwaukee County, the number of people hospitalized with COVID-19 has gone from 146 to 183 in the past week. “This is a concerning 29 percent increase in COVID-19 patients in our hospitals,” said Dr. Ben Weston, Milwaukee County medical services director, during a Wednesday afternoon press briefing.
What angers me that neither the Milwaukee Health department nor UW-Madison is making an effective effort to discover why Milwaukee's statistics have always been bad and are getting worse. They sit back and mess with statistics and would lockdown the whole state if they could based on these Milwaukee statistics. But they have no statistics about cause and effect and there are no stories about trained epidemiologists from UW-Madison searching for and finding reasons for this bad situation. Where are they? What are they being paid for if they can't work effectively on this situation? No ideas,? no theories? Just collecting new statistics for future applications for Federal grant money on population health? UW-Madison is a big research center on population health - what a bitter joke. Their faculty have even written articles showing that the impact of the economic consequences of the Asian flu of 1918 lasted for three generations. They have been useless to Milwaukee in this crisis as far as determining why things are bad in Milwaukee. And they haven't spoken up about the consequences to the people of Wisconsin of letting the whole state lockdown. Useless high salaried "experts" - I guess the curtain has been torn open on them!!!!
Well then
https://www.google.com/amp/s/legalinsurrection.com/2020/05/wuhan-virus-watch-youtube-reinstates-video-in-which-doctors-say-hydroxychloroquine-treats-covid-19/amp/
Healthy republican not wearing a mask: lefties scream murderer and call for his arrest.
Democrat Governors purposely shove infected elderly into nursing homes: lefties scream Heroes and call for one of them to lead the dems in 2020.
Discuss.
"If we were to become involved in another World War, one can easily imagine these creeps refusing to turn off (or tightly conceal) their house lights to avoid attracting bomb strikes."
We "right wing" creeps would most likely be the ones on the front lines engaging the enemy, thus not around to flip switches. At least that was my experience during my three combat tours over two wars. Others' results may vary, but probably not by much.
Robert Cook,
You bring up a valid and interesting point. How far is an individual obligated to go to protect others?
Obviously, I am obligated to remain sober and alert when driving. And if I had visited you when you were ill (I hope you have regained at least some of your health, and best wishes for your future) it would be wrong to refuse to wear a mask.
But we all take actions that at least slightly endanger others on a daily basis. Given human fallibility, the very act of driving increases the risk to others by some small margin. And this is even more so when it comes to public health. As an example, would it be unreasonable to demand that ALL New York City residents to remain within city limits for the next month? The next year? Until a vaccine is developed?
As always, thank you for your stimulating insights.
This, of course, is a common attitude of selfish entitlement and dismissive scorn for all others in right wing assholes who imagine they are fighting an insidious tyranny.
Yes, the ignorant left is all about these cloth masks that are total theater and have no effect except on self important lefties who want the economy to collapse so they can get power again. The masks I wore in surgery and which your visitors wore have no relationship to the bandanas that idiots like Pelosi sport.
“This ass hat, supposedly a representative of the people, is proud that he doesn't care enough about anyone else to even slightly inconvenience himself for the benefit of others. This, of course, is a common attitude of selfish entitlement and dismissive scorn for all others in right wing assholes who imagine they are fighting an insidious tyranny. If we were to become involved in another World War, one can easily imagine these creeps refusing to turn off (or tightly conceal) their house lights to avoid attracting bomb strikes.”
And even being proud of it or disguising it as being independent or patriotic(!) just goes to show how far a certain segment of our society has moved away from any sense of mutualism. There is nothing to be done, that selfishness is entrenched now.
Another fat fuck preaching to the lazy stupid fat fuck choir.
Cook the “asshat” is not sick so need not wear a mask to “protect” anyone else. Why are you forcing healthy people to play dress up you Nazi?
@Robt Cook, I think it foolish to assume other people have your best interests at heart. You should not expect them to alter their behavior to make you safe. This is just the way it goes, and I accept it.
A mask to seasonal allergy-suffering me (think: Runny Nose) is a major inconvenience.
"The masks protect no one, and are like so much security theater, there to make you and others feel good."
The masks are there to let you know who's in charge of managing your life. And it's not you.
Masks were one of the big 3 blunders of the pandemic.
1) All information from China were lies and should never have been trusted
2) Masks don't help. Don't buy masks.
3) CDC should control test kits
It was proven that non-N95 masks did not PREVENT the transmission of the virus, but there were studies out there that demonstrated as much as an 86% reduction in viral load vs. no mask. They are not the be-all/end-all preventive measure, but they do help.
Since our government already lied to us and told us "no masks" and are now telling us we MUST wear them, it is natural to question such authority.
So, where your mask, when amongst a crowd. It won't do much for you while you are driving in your car. If are out there strolling around or playing golf, it really isn't necessary. I keep seeing people wearing them while outside while >6' from anyone.
You are all wrong and completely missing the point. The problem is not whether or not masks help.
It is the government forcing people to wear them that turns this into a divisive issue.
If you read most of your comments above they are a mish mash of stupidity and ridiculousness because wearing masks is now a political issue and the majority gets to decide if you wear a mask or not and not individuals.
If you have to convince an individual to use a mask you will give them intelligent arguments like:
The masks worn temporarily do slow the spread of the virus in the environment. If you are symptomatic they keep you from coughing and sneezing on surfaces. If you are not symptomatic they keep you from touching your nose and mouth and make you conscientious of touching your eyes.
But if they are worn for extended period of time they become vectors for the disease just like reusable shopping bags.
If you use the tyranny of the majority you say stupid shit like:
Heartless Aztec said...
Wearing a paper/cloth mask to stop a virus is like putting up chain link fence over your windows to keep out flies.
or:
Robert Cook said...
This ass hat, supposedly a representative of the people, is proud that he doesn't care enough about anyone else to even slightly inconvenience himself for the benefit of others.
Masks were one of the big 3 blunders of the pandemic.
1) All information from China were lies and should never have been trusted
2) Masks don't help. Don't buy masks.
3) CDC should control test kits
It was proven that non-N95 masks did not PREVENT the transmission of the virus, but there were studies out there that demonstrated as much as an 86% reduction in viral load vs. no mask. They are not the be-all/end-all preventive measure, but they do help.
Since our government already lied to us and told us "no masks" and are now telling us we MUST wear them, it is natural to question such authority.
So, where your mask, when amongst a crowd. It won't do much for you while you are driving in your car. If are out there strolling around or playing golf, it really isn't necessary. I keep seeing people wearing them while outside while >6' from anyone.
Slightly less deadly than those two so far.
In three months. The other deaths were over two flu seasons.
Masks were one of the big 3 blunders of the pandemic.
1) All information from China were lies and should never have been trusted
2) Masks don't help. Don't buy masks.
3) CDC should control test kits
It was proven that non-N95 masks did not PREVENT the transmission of the virus, but there were studies out there that demonstrated as much as an 86% reduction in viral load vs. no mask. They are not the be-all/end-all preventive measure, but they do help.
Since our government already lied to us and told us "no masks" and are now telling us we MUST wear them, it is natural to question such authority.
So, where your mask, when amongst a crowd. It won't do much for you while you are driving in your car. If are out there strolling around or playing golf, it really isn't necessary. I keep seeing people wearing them while outside while >6' from anyone.
@Robert Cook,
Because a virus that 99% of healthy people survive with few sequelae is EXACTLY like the Blitz. Right.
And because healthy people standing a couple of yards away from someone who "in theory" may be infected with a virus that "in theory" may be spread through the air is EXACTLY like a leukemia patient with NO white blood cells being examined by nurses and doctors in close quarters.
Get a grip, dude.
Kinda feels like we are being punked. "Let's see if we can scare everyone into wearing home made cloth or flimsy manufactured paper masks...."
"It worked!!! Now let's see if we can shut down all the Christian places of worship....or should we tell them hopping on one foot confuses the virus....?"
"This ass hat, supposedly a representative of the people, is proud that he doesn't care enough about anyone else to even slightly inconvenience himself for the benefit of others."
Oh, sweet, sweet, irony.
If they're all masked why would he need to be? Sounds like the kind of accommodation the Left is constantly demanding for all kinds of their Identity clients.
Face masks don't work, even the CDC said so this year in a Feb. article in their publication.
A strange hill to choose to die on.
OK, start with masks. Then what else can I be compelled to do "for other people"?
WHY are people ALLOWED to drive cars faster than 15 mph?
Don't they REALIZE, that they are KILLING PEOPLE?
Nearly ALL traffic fatalities are caused by speeds IN EXCESS of 15 mph
Can we ALL AGREE, that NO ONE (except, of course; authorized personal) should be allowed these breakneck speeds? MANDATE governors on ALL CARS "for other people"
And what about second hand smoke? And let's talk about, the MILLIONS killed; by Global Warming!
"Liberals" were State-fuckers before the Kung Flu, and if the Kung Flu disappeared overnight, would remain State-fuckers tomorrow. Forcing your will on other people seems to be an addictive drug, and if they can't get their coercive jollies in the name of public health, they'll find some other cause or excuse. "For the children" is always useful.
Repeating my comment from yesterday's sunrise post:
Lewis Wetzel said...
From our CDC:
Face Masks
In our systematic review, we identified 10 RCTs that reported estimates of the effectiveness of face masks in reducing laboratory-confirmed influenza virus infections in the community from literature published during 1946–July 27, 2018. In pooled analysis, we found no significant reduction in influenza transmission with the use of face masks (RR 0.78, 95% CI 0.51–1.20; I2 = 30%, p = 0.25) (Figure 2). One study evaluated the use of masks among pilgrims from Australia during the Hajj pilgrimage and reported no major difference in the risk for laboratory-confirmed influenza virus infection in the control or mask group (33). Two studies in university settings assessed the effectiveness of face masks for primary protection by monitoring the incidence of laboratory-confirmed influenza among student hall residents for 5 months (9,10). The overall reduction in ILI or laboratory-confirmed influenza cases in the face mask group was not significant in either studies (9,10).
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article
5/20/20, 10:09 PM Delete
I bought one of these suckers for when I have to wear one.
If I'm going to wear a useless accouterment to make other people feel better, it's at least going to look cool.
And yes, the vast majority of the time they are a useless accouterment to make other people feel better.
The CDC has now come out and said that the virus apparently is not spread by fomites--that is, by remaining on surfaces.
Close quarters is defined as 15 minutes of interaction with someone in a confined space.
There are no studies to show that this virus is contained by a mask and that infection rates drop when masks are worn. Unless you are a hamster and have mask material completely covering your cage.
There are no studies that demonstrate asymptomatic spread; it is speculation.
The people wearing masks who are theoretically infected are breathing, coughing, and sneezing into their masks. They then touch their now-infected masks. Danger! Virus on hands.
This is stupidity.
Bailey should get on the submission signalling bandwagon
or continue facing exclusion from the herd
I don't care for being emotionally and socially manipulated. Some degree of that is necessary and normal to maintain some kind of social standards -- I give dirty looks to litterers, for example -- and maybe it's just be being childish or hypocritical when now I'm the one who doesn't want to go with the grain and feels pressure to do so. But still. It doesn't feel right to me.
https://dailycaller.com/2020/05/20/jp-morgan-infection-rates-decreasing-states-that-ended-lockdowns/
Ken B and Inga hardest hit, or would be if they could ever be expected to admit there was any possibility they could have been misinformed.
"Forcing compliance on the use of masks is a way of showing everyone who is in power. It makes it clear that your rights flow from government and the government can revoke those rights at their whim, science be damned."
Is this true when it is the private small business requesting/requiring their customers to wear masks in order to enter (for the safety of their employees)?
I'm with you, Balfegor.
Oh and remember the scaremongering about live virus on playground equipment and Amazon deliveries? I'm sure you all saw that the CDC reported that's bullshit too. (Like many of us thought from the beginning as we were privately eyerolling about people quarantining their mail and wiping down their groceries.)
It's almost like no one knows what the hell is going on and we should just do what we want, what seems right to us, and quit trying to judge and control each other. It's pointless and counterproductive. That's easier said than done when it comes to public policy like what school is going to look like and who gets to enter public buildings, though.
No one really knows what is going on but the two things I have been worried about are overflowing hospitals and piles of dead people in the streets and that hasn't happened and won't happen. The rest - let's just save the economy, let kids live normal lives, hug our friends (the ones who want to be hugged) and let the rest work itself out.
And even being proud of it or disguising it as being independent or patriotic(!) just goes to show how far a certain segment of our society has moved away from any sense of mutualism. There is nothing to be done, that selfishness is entrenched now.
And it takes a village to raise a child.
And Epstein did not kill himself.
"Mutualism" is communism, I guess. Maybe only Socialism.
"We 'right wing' creeps would most likely be the ones on the front lines engaging the enemy, thus not around to flip switches. At least that was my experience during my three combat tours over two wars. Others' results may vary, but probably not by much."
A completely irrelevant non-sequitur.
Face mask wearing is a political issue. Note that there are no requirements for quality, fit, cleaning, reuse, etc. Any old thing will do as long as you bend your knee.
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/2d/de/3d/2dde3d74fd8138a9c77b52a9ee34347d.jpg
Link
Stay Safe said... He should be thinking that he will look really foolish if he now gets the virus and gets really sick. That has happened to other skeptics.
You sound hopeful.
Face mask wearing is a political issue. Note that there are no requirements for quality, fit, cleaning, reuse, etc. Any old thing will do as long as you bend your knee.
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/2d/de/3d/2dde3d74fd8138a9c77b52a9ee34347d.jpg
Experiments by a team in Hong Kong found that the coronavirus’ transmission rate via respiratory droplets or airborne particles dropped by as much as 75% when surgical masks were used.
"And if I had visited you when you were ill (I hope you have regained at least some of your health, and best wishes for your future) it would be wrong to refuse to wear a mask."
Thanks for your well-wishes. I was ill 22 years ago and so far, annual blood checks show I'm still fine and in remission.
I'm sorry but we must apply the Fauci standard to all requirements: Has it gone through a peer-reviewed, clinical trial? Masks have not. There is no peer-reviewed study that shows they are effective, at least if what I read from a European epidemilogist is accurate. Virtually all the SCIENCE we are forced to bow to is not in fact science at all but mere declarations by guys in lab coats or, worse, guys claiming to be following the advice of guys in lab coats.
I'm done with SCIENCE. It's a lie. But science, I revere.
I stopped by the local grocery this morning, wearing my N95 mask (simply because we'd had a supply of those left over from all the California wildfires a couple of years back), whereupon a male Karen (not an employee) berated me for wearing a mask which (he said) endangers everyone there (I presume because he thought the mask's visible filter was an out valve) — recommending that I replace it with one of his cloth masks he'd whipped up and was giving away to the staff there. (I politely declined to believe his fables nor accept his mask.)
Blogger stevew said...
... Kinda like taking hydroxychloroquine when you aren't yet diagnosed with the virus.
5/21/20, 10:23 AM
Remember, taking hydroxychloroquine is bad, but waiting to take the vaporware untested, brand new, 'anti-viral' for this COVID strain will be good!
It is the government forcing people to wear them that turns this into a divisive issue.
Except in this case, the state Rep. works for the government. So he's defying his employer. So many twists and turns...
"I have a lot of experience in CBRN (Chem, Bio, Rad, Nuc) and I can tell you this mask thing is complete bs."
Its 100% BS, except that it seems to work in South Korea and elsewhere and it worked in San Francisco in 1918. The fallacy is that if masks don't prevent 100% of transmission they are worthless. (Which is also a reason to never wear a seat belt.) If each of us could reduce our likelihood of infection by even 50%, it will have a massive effect when you spread it out across the population. A study of history will show that, while not 100% effective, masks are effective at reducing transmission.
Recall, you do not necessarily get sick just because you inhale a viron or two. You need a proper viral load to cause infection. That means masks do not need to filter out every last viron from entering your lungs. It just has to filter out enough that you inhale a "safe" number of virons. Even the shitty gauze masks from 1918 seemed to do a fairly decent job at this. Remember as well virons are very, very tiny but they usually travel on something else much bigger, like a (still pretty little but sticky) droplet of water and mucus.
Doctors 100 years ago were smarter and had more common sense than WHO and the CDC. It was WHO and the CDC that spread the lie that masks are ineffective--and we needed them for healthcare workers. Which reminded me of the old joke about the diners complaining that their food was terrible--and the portions were too small. Had CDC and Who not told that lie, I truly believe our response would have been totally different and less destructive.
I Have Misplaced My Pants said...
I reluctantly wear my stupid mask around people whose comfort is important to me, even though I feel it’s largely pointless, but I’m wondering about this thing we have now where someone else’s irrational fears are sufficient to demand changes in my behavior.
Which makes you part of the problem.
Someone else's irrational fears are not sufficient to demand changes in you behavior. Courts are starting to rule on what me and other commentators have said here- the orders coming out of statehouses have been arbitrary and capricious. The demand for everyone to wear masks can be described with the same words- arbitrary and capricious.
For example of covidiocy, let's take a look at CDC guidelines for schools- then imagine yourself going to school under these guidelines as a child. https://patch.com/new-york/longisland/distant-desks-disinfect-cdc-guidelines-reopening-schools
Those guidelines fall under the category as not only arbitrary and capricious, but completely unreasonable and real life unobtainable. Let's take just one requirement: "Social distance on school buses, such as by seating one child per seat in every other row.
Not enough buses nor drivers to do this. One child per seat every other row- 1 instead of 4. SO roughly, 4 times as many buses, 4 times the drivers. Huge budget increase just to obtain the buses- which aren't available to buy in that quantity in any event.
Now adjust for population Fredder. That’s 160,000 equivalent during the Summer of Love. We are on track to reach that by year-end. And no. Flu season runs OCT-MAR, which is why those years are listed that way. No matter how hard you Karens try you cannot make this a killer pandemic worthy of this ridiculous lockdown. Never before and never again. This was mass panic of the ruling class and we all went along. Sooner you admit it the better.
I have no problem with a retailer requiring mask use to be in their store. There's a Shoe Store on Monroe St that does this. I don't know how happy I'd be as a retailer to face a lot of people over the course of the day -- although I doubt it would affect my health (especially if I've observed in the past that I do not catch things from clients). Still, their business, their rules.
I have a bit more of a problem with peer pressure to wear one -- because the facts as I understand them don't really support their efficacy. Sometimes I will, sometimes I won't.
Having a government mandate to wear one is un-American that I will bridle against.
"You are all wrong and completely missing the point."
I think this should be memorialized as the Official Slogan of the Althouse Commentariat.
"Wearing a paper/cloth mask to stop a virus is like putting up chain link fence over your windows to keep out flies."
A better analogy is it is like erecting a chain link fence over your windows to keep out baseballs covered in molasses, and then covered in flies. The virons don't typically travel alone, they are hitch hiking on bigger, stickier things.
Only deplorables are supposed to die.
Not precious democratic law makers!
it was silly, then, it's obscene now in light of new information of how Illinois has handled this matter, I doubt they need bailey for a quorum, like diaz balart and gaetz were to make the sham stimulus pass,
Blogger Levi Starks said...
there is a symbology in wearing the mask that likely far outweighs its benefits to others. Which is simply saying I’m a team player. He is in effect being denied the right to say “I’m not a team player”.
Yes! I'm not a team player either. But I wish Democrats would all keep wearing masks so that when the inevitable shooting starts, it's easier to know who is who.
Robert Cook
Find the 60 Minutes interview with the sainted Fauci in which he smirks that mask wearing is silly and unnecessary.
I thought Pritsker was loony until I read soda's Power Line entry describing the governor of Minnesota.
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2020/05/coronavirus-in-one-state-46.php
If you are under 60 then the risk of death is no more than the seasonal flu(.1), maybe less. Its really that simple.
Lucid-Ideas' 8:57 post confirms that the whole mask thing is political bullying, and in Illinois' case, Democrat bullying.
By the way, CDC has flipped again and now says that the Chinese Corona Virus is not easily transmissible from surfaces.
What a bunch of pandemic pussies we have become.
Hamsters are not humans. Keeping hamsters in cages next to infected hamsters in cages and using a fan to ensure spread of viral particles is not at all what happens with humans in real life. Nor is covering a hamster cage with surgical mask material anything like a human covering his facer with a piece of cloth.
Let's be honest about what we're posting, eh?
Mice are often used in medical research. They are used to investigate cancer--both solid and liquid. NO ONE proceeds to the FDA for approval of a drug that has worked only in mice. Like hamsters, mice aren't human.
I keep asking for proof that wearing a mask does anything to hinder the spread of the covid-19, real research by real scientists. Instead I get explanations of why people think that a mask works to hinder the spread of covid-19.
The only thing close to science I've found is the material from the CDC I linked to in my @11:00. That material says masks do nothing.
I can easily imagine situation wear a cloth mask might aid in the transmission of covid-19, by keeping it in the warm, damp mask material instead of expelling into the unfriendly world of cold, dry, hard surfaces, so that every time you exhale, you spray a fine aerosol of covid-19 droplets into the air.
I have nothing against wearing a mask, but please stop calling folk lore "science."
As predicted, Andrew Cuomo is now officially blaming Trump for the Cuomo policy decision to shove infected elderly patients into nursing and retirement homes.
Because of course he is.
At Althouse blog we caught a bit of that from just yesterday when Ken B decided he would lay the blame for some democrat decisions onto Anne-I-Am because of course he did.
Expect to see alot more of that as we get closer to the democrats and their lackeys accelerating Sham-peachment III (virus blame shift from the dems allies in Beijing and WHO to Trump) where the committees to "investigate" have already been formed and are working behind the scenes.
Recall that Sham-peachment I was the "Nobody Knows What Mueller Knows"/(hide obama/biden weaponizing of state against republicans)/dossier hoax that Inga and others pushed here. Sham-peachment IV is a continuation of this with the attempted weaponization of Grand Jury material.
Sham-peachment II was the hoax the dems/LLR's pushed to transfer guilt for Ukraine corruption from Biden to Trump. Sham-peachment V is next phase to try and transfer Biden audio-taped corruption against the Ukrainian prosecutor to Trump.
Overall: 2 Sham-peachments down, minimum of 3 active.
@Robert Cook:
It hit me that I was being inconsiderate to others, particularly to workers serving the public daily in this time of rapidly spreading infections. I stopped on my way home and I bought some masks.
There seems to be some question begging going on there.
Where I live, Idaho, there are restrictions, but not nearly as extensive as Michigan or the Northeast, and scarcely enforced. When I make non-essential runs to Home Despair, or the car parts store, etc, no more than 20% of people are wearing masks.
Yet despite that, cases have dropped more than 90% since the peak in the beginning of April.
How did that happen?
This ass hat, supposedly a representative of the people, is proud that he doesn't care enough about anyone else to even slightly inconvenience himself for the benefit of others.
Germany, despite extensive stretches of unlimited-speed autobahns, has a third the motor vehicle fatality rate we do. Of course, the driver training there is very rigorous and expensive.
Should we impose that kind of training here in the US, we might well reduce our motor vehicle fatality rate by half.
Given that could save 15,000 lives per year, failing to undergo that kind of training means not caring enough for others to put up with the inconvenience?
Freedom of speech. Freedom of religion.
https://www.wdam.com/2020/05/20/mississippi-church-destroyed-by-arson-was-suing-city-over-safer-at-home-order/
Karen B knows the answer.
Lady parts deserve better.
Michael:"Robert Cook
Find the 60 Minutes interview with the sainted Fauci in which he smirks that mask wearing is silly and unnecessary."
Michael, its useless to use logic with Cookie. Cookie is a marxist and marxists are marxists precisely because they happily rewrite and airbrush history every single day.
Comrade pre-March Fauci doesn't even exist anymore and I'm guessing that any and all photos/videos of Fauci saying what he clearly said have already been wiped away from youtube and twitter and google and facebook.....like with a cloth.
Michael:"Robert Cook
Find the 60 Minutes interview with the sainted Fauci in which he smirks that mask wearing is silly and unnecessary."
Michael, its useless to use logic with Cookie. Cookie is a marxist and marxists are marxists precisely because they happily rewrite and airbrush history every single day.
Comrade pre-March Fauci doesn't even exist anymore and I'm guessing that any and all photos/videos of Fauci saying what he clearly said have already been wiped away from youtube and twitter and google and facebook.....like with a cloth.
I have asthma and wearing a mask while doing any kind of extra physical labor compromises my breathing. Thus, I become enraged when the wearing of masks outdoors is mandated; it's absolutely not supported by the science except perhaps in the unusual case of packed crowds. I wear masks when INSIDE public buildings though because the science that I have read so far indicates that virus transmission does occur despite social distancing, given enough people in a given enclosed space.
Inga thinks a "Surgical Mask" is a Pelosi bandana.
Not to mention the CDC published a study saying nothing works better than HCQ in i hi it it spread of COVID and SARS viruses...
In 2015. Today’s politicized anti-Trump CDC keeps putting out faked up surveys hinting it doesn’t work Not double blind gold standard STUDIES. No now they contradict early authoritative STUDIES with non-peer reviewed SURVEYS of how many 80-year-old vent-assisted patients given HCQ (but no z-pack) recover. No mention of the millions of prophylactic doses being used by the “swab mobs” testing communities for WuFlu, by many medical teams here and abroad, and by any lab workers who can score a ‘script. It works prophylactically and the whole Left side of the country takes the anti-science oppo stance to HCQ out of spite for Trump. How many people will die listening to idiots like Kimmel, Behar, Pelosi, Biden, Scarborough, et al saying this well know helpful medicine will KILL PEOPLE?
You Karens have a LOT of blood on your hands.
Our experts and public health bosses of us have lost a lot of credibility this year. They have only themselves to blame.
I follow orders, even the irrational and scientifically illiterate ones, but my sympathies lie with those who who are brave enough to point out that the emperor has no clothes.
Oso Negro: bring it on. It's a free country. You people are all pussyfarts and no cattle. They even have a name for you:
Cosplatriot... when you are too afraid to enlist and too stupid to be a cop.
BE A VIRTUE SIGNALER! WEAR A MASK!
I was wearing one for about a month until I collected enough information to decide that they were ineffective at best and possibly dangerous.
Just one piece of that: We now know that exposure time and viral load are important factors to how sick you may get. You get sick from extended exposure to sufficient viral particles. The masks do not stop the virus from being inhaled by you. Now the virus is in your lungs and upper respiratory track. You constantly breath it back into the mask where it stays and returns to your lungs over and over for hours, replicating and bouncing back and forth and concentrating in number. Without the mask, you would at least not consonantly reinfect yourself and create a petri dish on your face.
This does not help others either, your mask builds up viral load that you then touch with your hands and spread around manually while also forcing it out though the mask with every breath. The masks quickly become cesspools of disease. Without the mask, you may breath out viral particle to the air, but they are then diluted and exposed to the elements that can quickly kill them rather than give them a safe home on your face. The mask does not stop you from breathing them out. It may stop you from spitting on someone, but is that controllable risk worth doing what I just described?
People just can't do nothing, even if it's the best strategy, and they need to recommend something for the same reason. It's not becuase it's safer, it's because it's so hard not to do something, anything, or to tell others the same.
Masks do not work. Don’t wear them.
Everyone should wear masks. It is required.
Wearing masks can concentrate the virus and infect your brain.
The virus can live for days on surfaces.
The virus is not easily spread by touching surfaces.
Flatten the curve.
Wait for a vaccine.
You can find any answer you want to support whatever belief you have.
There's battle lines being drawn
Nobody's right if everybody's wrong
Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
Step out of line, the man come and take you away
Here's an article on the true aftermath of the covid crisis, with an evergreen headline:
"As America Reopens, Trial Lawyers Salivate at Endless Coronavirus Lawsuit Possibilities"
There are already headlined lawsuits.
If burning the flag of the United States is permissible free speech (per the Supreme Court), then refusing to wear a mask is as well.
"Robert Cook
"Find the 60 Minutes interview with the sainted Fauci in which he smirks that mask wearing is silly and unnecessary."
Perhaps it is "silly and unnecessary," (but--who knows?--maybe not entirely silly or unnecessary).I didn't wear a mask at first, when many around me were doing so, because I knew that it wouldn't do much or anything to protect me. As I explain above, I chose to begin wearing a mask in public primarily to put others at greater ease, as they might fear me as a possible carrier of COVID-19. And, if others wearing masks can, to any degree, impede them from infecting me, that is another possible, even if slight, benefit for me.
Wearing a mask is an act of consideration for others. I know that acting out of consideration of others is a heresy for Ayn Rand and her followers, but it is an innate, necessary--and pleasing--component of social behavior.
"'You are all wrong and completely missing the point.'
"I think this should be memorialized as the Official Slogan of the Althouse Commentariat."
I think we should all have that tattooed on us as a requirement to post here!
@ Robert Cook:
"Is this true when it is the private small business requesting/requiring their customers to wear masks in order to enter (for the safety of their employees)?"
Not if you are free to go to the small business next door, that does not require masks, and spend your money there instead.
But it is true if the State forces all small business owners to enforce mask-wearing ukases, whether they want to or not.
D.D.: "you do not necessarily get sick just because you inhale a viron or two. You need a proper viral load to cause infection."
Infection and getting sick are two different issues.
The vast majority of people who get infected don't get sick. As a public health measure, trying to prevent the vast majority of people from getting infected is unnecessary.
Imposing social distancing on K-12 is silly.
@D.D. Driver
I have a secret to share with you about the Korean success during the crisis. I don't think it was the masks. I think it was a bunch of other smaller factors (also related in Japanese culture, but not as 'strongly') that created that story. If you've never been there, the S. Koreans are fastidiously clean...like Singapore level clean. Secondly, Koreans are already very mindful of their personal space. Social distancing is a norm there, even before the crisis. Seoul is a city almost as densely populated as Tokyo but looks nothing like it even during rush hour. Koreans also have a cultural tendency to cover their mouths when they eat and smiling, opening your mouth is considered boorish and impolite.
All these factors, many more, and an internal epigenetic recognition by Koreans - who've had a huge number of plague level events in past history that were China's fault - have made them especially wary of pathogens as well as adept at adopting behaviors that make them less susceptible.
How is it that people think not wearing a mask is a stand for freedom? Don't be dick. Wear a mask if you're in a public indoor space. All this shouting about control is just so much petty bullshit from posturing assholes.
Virtue signalling, pure and simple. Does anyone really believe a thin strip of cloth interrupts the spread of a virus?
Ann,
You seem to know very little about masks in particular and respiratory ppe in general. That's not a criticism. I think it would be the rare law professor who did.
I've got a fair amount of experience with all types of respiratory ppe since 1965. Some militsry (gas masks & oxygen breathing apparatus) and a lot industrial. A lot of that working in aseptic pharma processes (more germfree than sterile and a couple levels above hospital OR's)
What we are doing with masks is bullshit in my opinion. They don't protect me from anyone and they don't protect anyone from me.
In my professional opinion.
So I refuse to wear one. I will put one on if I am legally required to, but only if there is a police who might see me.
I wear one to enter a store, but only because I have to. As soon as I am in, it goes down around my chin. I get the occasional stinkeye but so far no karen has said anything.
So Ann, if you see me coming and are worried about me infecting you, stay well clear.
I am no more or less likely to infect you, or be infected by you with a mask than without one.
In my professional opinion, based on my understanding of science.
John Henry
c365 said...
How are his free speech rights not violated?
Is he sick? If he's not sick you can't suppress his rights based on concern that he's getting people sick.
And even if he was sick, I'm not sure you can suppress his rights that there's a 30% chance he'll infect someone with a virus that has a 99% or greater on average survival rate.
5/21/20, 9:10 AM
Gay men can't be "required" to disclose to their partners that they are HIV positive but he has to wear a mask?
Robert Cook said...
This ass hat, supposedly a representative of the people, is proud that he doesn't care enough about anyone else to even slightly inconvenience himself for the benefit of others. This, of course, is a common attitude of selfish entitlement and dismissive scorn for all others in right wing assholes who imagine they are fighting an insidious tyranny.
5/21/20, 9:32 AM
If it saves one live, right?
OK, now do abortion...
" I was buying groceries and the cashier, a mature woman with a British accent, asked me why I wasn't wearing my mask. She asked politely, in a tone that suggested she was concerned for my safety, but I knew she was really asking: "Why are you making yourself a potential health threat to others?" (As I say, being apparently British, she was able to convey a lot with her understated but knowing tone.)"
Sorry..this was pretty funny to picture. Apparently resonated better than Cuomo's "Hey buddy. Where's your mask?
By the way, for those with a longer memory span than the last Democrat talking point email, the original justification for the lockdown and all these other life changing orders and edicts from above was not to save lives. It was never to save lives. It was to flatten the curve. Remember those words? That's what it was all about. The deaths were going to come, regardless. Nothing we could do about the total number of deaths from this frightening virus. But we needed to slow it's spread, reduce the peak, so that hospitals wouldn't be overwhelmed with patients needing respirators, which because of the evil Orangeman, America was desperately short of.
Turns out all that was complete crap, based on computer models that showed the old acronym about computer models still applies- GIGO.
Now, to justify everything, the complete shutdown of the economy, the absurd and indeed totally stupid and inane social distancing rules, masks, plexiglass shields, the works, it's all about "saving lives". Shifting goalposts to justify unjustifiable actions. Same reason the absurd and inane 55 MPH speed limit persisted for so long- to save lives.
Seems like way to many are willing to give up on freedom as long as it "saves lives".
List of things we cold do to save lives:
1. Require everyone to live within walking distance of their work.Think of all the pollution that would be stopped! All the lives that could be saves!
2. Outlaw mountain climbing, parasailing, private aviation, and any other risky unnecessary activity .
3. Require everyone outside their house to wear protective helmets. No telling when a nasty fall or slip might injure your cranium.
4. Outlaw all privately owned motor vehicles, since they won't be needed since everyone is required to work within walking distance of their home.
If saving lives is all that's important, all these and more are justified. To hell with freedom! TO hell with liberty! Save lives! Do it for Robert Cook!
Where I live, people against masks are usually also the people against vaccinations. I don't think that's the case among commenters here though. Out of curiosity, are any commenters here opposed to vaccinations? (Genuinely out of curiosity. Not a prelude to some other argument or a discussion about vaccines.)
Masks are also a visual reminder of the unexplained shift in goals. We flattened the curve so why do we need to wear a mask? We have the capacity to help the small percentage who need it. We can identify those most at risk and they can protect themselves. So why do we need masks?
If the powers that be would explain the shift from flatten to containment to full prevention then maybe the mask critics would be less critical.
Heartless Aztec mentions respirator masks with cannisters. To stop airborne bacteria you meed an absolute filter with a pore size of 0.3 microns. For virii, even smaller but I forget the size.
An absolute filter is essentially a sieve. It will stop anthing larger than the rated poor size.
But, if you use the canister today, and don't sterilize (not sanitize but sterilize) any bacteria stopped by the outside of the filter can grow through the pores. When you put the mask on tomorrow, the bacteria are happily multiplying inside the mask. Perhaps, even faster than outside.
Virtually every type of mask worn in public is a depth filter like a furnace filter. Most particulates will try to navigate the twisty maze of little passages and get stuck. In the case of an n95 mask, 95% will get stuck.
5% will still get through.
This assumes you are wearing the mask properly, which virtually nobody does.
And most people aren't even wearing these kind of masks.
So who is your mask protecting?
John Henry
I learned to use a gas mask in navy boot camp.
I was locked into a sealed chamber with 60 of my closest friends and an instructor.
We were each given a gas mask and about 15 minutes instruction how to put them on. Then the instructor put on his mask and pulled the pins on 2 tear gas grenades.
It was quickly apparent who had paid attention.
Mine leaked a little but not as bad as others. The instructor went around berating those of us affected and showing how to adjust the straps. It's harder to get right than it looks.
Standard practice for masks in the navy is to hold your hands over the canister and inhale. If you can't suck the mask against your face, it's not right.
That's the only kind of mask to rely on. With freshly sterile canisters.
John Henry
Vaccines work by producing antibodies a notion as far back as jenner three centuries ago.
"That doesn't mean the experts aren't right when they say it's for other people."
It's a truism among trial lawyers that you can find an expert willing to say whatever you need one to say. The rules of evidence impose substantial requirements before an expert is even allowed to testify. In this pandemic, we've all be inundated with self-designated experts spouting off, but almost none of that would be deemed sufficiently reliable to be admitted in evidence in the simplest trial. And, as with anything that has become highly politicized, it's best to be very skeptical.
In my Brooklyn neighborhood, about a third of the people I've seen walking outside, on the street or in the park, are not wearing a mask (I'm one of them). Some fake it (bandanna or mask pulled down), evidently in an attempt to avoid having the nervous nellies getting all knickered up.
To me it is all just theatre, and I'm not showing up in costume for this little drama. So decide for yourself, and if a mask is your thing, go for it.
Blogger Lewis Wetzel said..."I keep asking for proof that wearing a mask does anything to hinder the spread of the covid-19, real research by real scientists."
Here you go, Lewis:
https://slatestarcodex.com/2020/03/23/face-masks-much-more-than-you-wanted-to-know/
I actually haven't read it, nor am I pushing a mask/no-mask viewpoint. Instapundit lined to this awhile back claiming it discussed a lot of studies, which it does, so I bookmarked it.
John Henry's comments on masks is pretty much spot on. An N95 mask, worn properly, when cleaning soot, will still leave you with a nose full of black snot at the end of a shift. Even if you change it frequently. Wish I had known about nasal irrigation earlier in life to clean that crap out....
To keep everything out, you need a positive pressure ventilator, like a submarine EAB, plugged into a 100 pound air line. EAB races, from fore to aft and back, are a regularly conducted activity to relieve the boredom of a long patrol. Requiring you to know where the next set of outlets is, or losing because you have to take the mask off to breathe... Good wholesome fun and training at the same time. Wearing one for 3 hours is NOT fun. Or you need to carry around an air pack as firefighters do when entering buildings.
The tear gas chamber is not fun. What John Henry failed to mention is that even if you get it on correctly-- they make you take it off BEFORE you exit the test chamber. They want you know what exactly why it's important to get it right.
Once again, my county has 280,000 people. 130 cases. One fatality. Since January.
I have not worn a mask. I will not wear a mask.
It's bullshit. All of it.
Possible sign of things to come after the republicans take both open House seats last week:
"Shocker! Conservative slate sweeps to victory, control of Staunton City Council"
"How unlikely was this conservative sweep? Hillary Clinton won Staunton in the 2016 presidential election, Barack Obama had won the city in the previous two election cycles, and Democrat Jennifer Lewis pulled 56.5 percent of the vote in her 2018 Sixth District congressional race against Republican Ben Cline, who eventually swept to victory, winning 59.7 percent of the vote district-wide."
https://augustafreepress.com/shocker-conservative-slate-sweeps-to-victory-control-of-staunton-city-council/
Strange.
I have been "reliably" informed by our resident Russia collusion hoax truthers Inga and ARM that a result like this in a democrat stronghold was not possible.
He should be thinking that he will look really foolish if he now gets the virus and gets really sick. That has happened to other skeptics. - Stay Stupid
Which would happen whether he wears a fucking mask or not.
My previous comment puts this one into context:
DOJ: Democrats Paid Pennsylvania Election Officials to Stuff Ballot Box
A former Judge of Elections in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, has been charged and pleaded guilty to illegally adding votes for Democrat candidates in judicial races in 2014, 2015, and 2016.
On Thursday, the Department of Justice (DOJ) announced charges against former Judge of Elections Domenick DeMuro, 73, for stuffing the ballot box for Democrats in exchange for payment by a paid political consultant.
I guess the democrats Never Let A Crisis Go To Waste tactic of shoving ballot harvesting into the virus response makes a lot more sense now, doesn't it?
Vaccinations vs Masks is Apples vs Oranges. Vaccinations are proven to provide protection. Masks are not.
Mr quirdash you are the weakiest link. Good bye
Darkisland said...
I learned to use a gas mask in navy boot camp.
I was locked into a sealed chamber with 60 of my closest friends and an instructor.
We were each given a gas mask and about 15 minutes instruction how to put them on. Then the instructor put on his mask and pulled the pins on 2 tear gas grenades.
It was quickly apparent who had paid attention.
Mine leaked a little but not as bad as others. The instructor went around berating those of us affected and showing how to adjust the straps. It's harder to get right than it looks.
Standard practice for masks in the navy is to hold your hands over the canister and inhale. If you can't suck the mask against your face, it's not right.
That's the only kind of mask to rely on. With freshly sterile canisters.
John Henry
Our experience was similar.
Except after we proved they worked we were told to take them off.
We had to say the soldiers creed.
Then we were lead in a circle outside and led back in.
I did not realize that much mucous could fit inside my head.
Out of curiosity, are any commenters here opposed to vaccinations?
I am not. I am fully vaccinated and so are my kids. I get a flu shot every year. I would hesitate, however, to be the first to get a COVID-19 vaccine. I do recall what happened with -- was it Swine Flu vaccines? -- vaccination following some pandemic in the 70s. Also, I'm not in a particular risk group (although I am approaching one age-wise).
Robert Cook
“Wearing a mask is an act of consideration for others. I know that acting out of consideration of others is a heresy for Ayn Rand and her followers, but it is an innate, necessary--and pleasing--component of social behavior.”
It is theater. It is not inconsiderate to not wear a mask. It is inconsiderate to flinch every time someone comes within 4 feet six or to shout at a runner who passes too close.
Relax. Don’t be a progressive asshole. You are not going to get the virus notwithstanding the fact you live in a Petrie dish managed by a pair of idiots.
In other big virus-y "good news" for the lefties:
Mississippi Church that Refused to Obey Lockdown Orders Burned Down by Arsonist Who Leaves Message
That'll show em! I'll bet many weren't even wearing masks so, you know, that church had it coming.
Obviously.
I believe a Magrittean approach is called for here. Get yourself a mask with the design below:
You don't need to be walking
around with a mask.
- Dr. Anthony Fauci
It would be interesting to see the reactions.
Gospace said...
The tear gas chamber is not fun. What John Henry failed to mention is that even if you get it on correctly-- they make you take it off BEFORE you exit the test chamber. They want you know what exactly why it's important to get it right.
5/21/20, 1:19 PM
Using stuff that won't kill you in training so that if you are in the middle of stuff that could, you are safe(r).
Been there, done that. The DI made us remove ours and "breath deep"...
And even being proud of it or disguising it as being independent or patriotic(!) just goes to show how far a certain segment of our society has moved away from any sense of mutualism. There is nothing to be done, that selfishness is entrenched now.
You demand others cater to your irrational fears and we're the ones who are selfish?
Go to hell.
Robert Cook said...
That's genius! I'm shocked no one has produced such masks
I would be surprised if they were not available via the Amazon portal.
Washable masks with lots of other messages and images are.
I have one on order with the don't tread on me flag.
I was going to order a MAGA mask but my son would not let me wear it. He likes pdjt but thinks it too dangerous to admit it.
He is probably rigjt
John Henry
More Illinois virus news: Lefty dem gov Pritzker and Chicago (bang bang) mayor Lightfoot order brand new parking bans/no parking zones around churches......
....and that's it.
Just churches.
Not any other entity and especially not mosques.
I'm sure our resident Karen's can explain why that is....
“Wearing a mask is an act of consideration for others. I know that acting out of consideration of others is a heresy for Ayn Rand and her followers, but it is an innate, necessary--and pleasing--component of social behavior.” Like Cookie has actually read Rand. If he did he probably thought Ellsworth Toohey and James Taggart the good guys.
Cookie won't be happy until those horrible deplorables are properly "re-educated" in "controlled environments" to "ensure the safety" of the "voluntary" "attendees".
"A former Judge of Elections in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, has been charged and pleaded guilty to illegally adding votes for Democrat candidates in judicial races in 2014, 2015, and 2016."
-- No one would ever commit voter fraud.
Sebastian wrote:
"'That doesn't mean the experts aren't right when they say it's for other people.'
"OK, start with masks. Then what else can I be compelled to do 'for other people'?"
Robert Cook's answer is probably, "Whatever me and my ideological gang say you should."
"Relax. Don’t be a progressive asshole. You are not going to get the virus notwithstanding the fact you live in a Petrie dish managed by a pair of idiots."
And you know I won't get the virus...how? One person I work with was bedridden for two weeks with COVID-19, (fortunately, she is recovering), and another woman I know lost her husband (they had been married only six months): it felled him within the first few weeks of it hitting NYC. The reports we read in the paper every day of people dying or suffering serious health impacts from COVID-19 are real people, not just made up journalistic figments.
The masks are about other people, not you you stupid asshole "Karen". These anti-mask morons have really turned me off on Republicans. I think I am done voting.
I'm against mandatory masks but not voluntary masks so I'm not sure if you are asking me. If I thought masks did any positive good at all for anyone (genpop) I might feel differently.
I am generally in favor of vaccination though there are some I have doubts about. I am also a bit uncomfortable about mandatory vaccination. Not uncomfortable enough to ban them though
I do not do flu shots. As far as I can tell they do little or no good for individual or society. Not muc chance of harm but not much chance of good so why bother?
I have probably had more vaccinations for more diseases than anyone here. Other than fellow vets, of course.
What i was referring to
https://metro.co.uk/2020/05/20/new-isis-leader-captured-iraqi-special-forces-12735035/?ico=pushly-notifcation-small&utm_source=pushly
Achilles.
Could you explain this?
If you use the tyranny of the majority you say stupid shit like:
Heartless Aztec said...
Wearing a paper/cloth mask to stop a virus is like putting up chain link fence over your windows to keep out flies.
Why is it stupid. It is a perfect analogy and my only objection is that I didn't think of it.
A mask is a filter. If the holes on a filter are small enough (0.3 micron) the bacteria can't pass. Just like flies can't pass a regular window screen.
If the holes are bigger, as in virtually all covid masks, the bacteria pass right through like flies through chain link.
Please explain you problem with Azteks analogy. I'm not getting what you are on about.
John Henry
Robert Cook said...
"'You are all wrong and completely missing the point.'
"I think this should be memorialized as the Official Slogan of the Althouse Commentariat."
I think we should all have that tattooed on us as a requirement to post here!
5/21/20, 12:20 PM
So, no Jews on Althouse, because an observant/educated Jew will not get a tattoo. Noted.
Of course you were kidding. Which is funny because your earlier:
Robert Cook said...
"How are his free speech rights not violated?"
How does wearing a mask inhibit his freedom to speak?
Put me in mind of the yellow star that Jews under Nazi regimes were forced to wear. How does a Judenstern inhibit one's freedoms?
Robert Cook said...
"We 'right wing' creeps would most likely be the ones on the front lines engaging the enemy, thus not around to flip switches. At least that was my experience during my three combat tours over two wars. Others' results may vary, but probably not by much."
A completely irrelevant non-sequitur.
5/21/20, 11:14 AM
Things are always irrelevant when they controvert you. For the record, Germany was never going to bomb New York, but when the many selfish, largely Democratic New Yorkers (and other city dwellers) failed to comply with the blackouts, they made excellent backdrops to illuminate ships leaving New York Harbor (et al), aiding them to be targeted and sunk by German U-boats.
Robert Cook said...
"And if I had visited you when you were ill (I hope you have regained at least some of your health, and best wishes for your future) it would be wrong to refuse to wear a mask."
Thanks for your well-wishes. I was ill 22 years ago and so far, annual blood checks show I'm still fine and in remission.
5/21/20, 11:16 AM
Stupid non-socialized medicine. If you were dead, I could have a crack at your rent-stabilized apartment! (jk)
Howard said...
Oso Negro: bring it on....blahblah chickenhawk blahblah
I haven't noted your real name and address in these comments. Even you people must realize that most posters here are aged out of military or police service, and that many here have served already.
Like you, Mr. Muscles Are Required, Intelligence Not Essential. Among your very many, very manly, very necessary careers.
Freder Frederson said...
Slightly less deadly than those two so far.
In three months. The other deaths were over two flu seasons.
5/21/20, 10:51 AM
You've used this line repeatedly, and I've just seen in this thread that you were corrected, to have explained to you that the two-year span refers to the flu season being across the winter season, i.e. Dec 1968 to Feb 1969 constitutes 2 years by your measure.
Having been corrected, I trust you won't make this mistake again? Else you won't be mistaken, you'll be lying.
@Robert Cook:
Wearing a mask is an act of consideration for others. I know that acting out of consideration of others is a heresy for Ayn Rand and her followers, but it is an innate, necessary--and pleasing--component of social behavior.
Masks, even if they work, will only reduce rate, not extent. The area under the infection curve will be exactly the same.
There is no consideration to be had, just virtue signaling, and virtue signal demanding, by people who can't be fussed to learn the first thing about viruses.
@Robert Cook,
We don't agree on much, but I just wanted to say I'm glad you survived your leukemia. I had a close friend who passed away from it years ago after a long battle, and it was heartbreaking.
If you are OK with the masks being mandatory, I have one simple question:
What is your criteria for taking them off?
Some things that were banned last week because it was too dangerous is now allowed this week though little has changed.
Oh, and the assholes that say the mask "is for other people"--Good.
Your mask protects me, so I don't need one. Thanks.
If I still need one because one mask isn't enough, wear two. Safety first!
“As I explain above, I chose to begin wearing a mask in public primarily to put others at greater ease, as they might fear me as a possible carrier of COVID-19.”
That’s absolutely absurd, Cookie. Like a flamboyant gay man acting as butch as possible to avoid the suspicion that he might be a carrier of AIDS.
Let's wash shoes.
https://nypost.com/2020/05/20/cdc-now-says-coronavirus-does-not-spread-easily-on-surfaces/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
Also, masks do not work.
Google it yourself.
They did make us pull off the gas masks in training. I forgot to mention.
Not to do with masks but they also, in firefighting school, locked us in a closed compartment poured a couple gallons of diesel fuel on the water under the grateset it alight and turned off the lights. We were expected to put the fire out.
Better to be scared shirtless the first time inside a fire when it is under controlled conditions than when its for real.
Fighting a fire on a ship is different from a house fire.
The house you can always back away from if you can't put it out.
The ship fire, you can abandon ship which may be only slightly less dangerous than burning to death.
Go space mentioned being in ppe for hours. At least in an air-conditioned sub.
My ship carried a cargo of nuclear weapons. Anytime they were handled, the incident and accident team was called out. Also for frequent drills.
We wore impregnated coveralls booties hood, gloves and gas mask. Booties taped to pants with masking tape and so on. Hermetically sealed for sometes 6-8 hours in 100 degree temps.
That was fun.
John Henry
Remember, as I've said, Cookie and people like him were State fellators before the pandemic, so that fact that they're State fellators during a pandemic is no great shakes. And when the pandemic has passed, they'll continue to be State fellators, only with a different set of excuses.
"Wearing a mask is an act of consideration for others."
Bullshit. If it did help, but people despised you for wearing one, you wouldn't wear it. You do it for social approval, which means for yourself.
Freeman, I'm totally in favor of vaccinations. I get them all the time: Flu, shingles, etc. I'm also against masks for the same reason: Science
But, if you use the canister today, and don't sterilize (not sanitize but sterilize) any bacteria stopped by the outside of the filter can grow through the pores. When you put the mask on tomorrow, the bacteria are happily multiplying inside the mask. Perhaps, even faster than outside.
That could be a problem — in the case of bacterial (or archaeal, or protozoal) diseases. But, fortunately for us, this particular pandemic is caused by a virus. Viruses (their infectious virus particles anyway) are not alive, and cannot “grow.” All such particles can do is infect living (in this case, mammalian) cells — and there are no mammalian cells (living anyway) in the fabric or filters of your (or anybody else's) mask.
Thus, not an issue in the case of viral diseases such as coronavirus-2019.
Robert Cook
You won’t get the virus juSt because you know people who have gotten it. Every prog from NY has to bang on about people they know who have gotten the virus as though that makes them a better armchair scientist and to shame those with a different opinion on the efficacy of mask wearing or social distancing, the latter a phrase that did not exist three months ago and has never been tested. Sweden leaves it to the individual, the USA at 6 feet, Canada at two meters, the WHO at one meter. You won’t get the virus. Most don’t. Most who do have a mild case. Worldwide there are 5.1 million cases, 46,000 serious.
Thought you were a serious liberal that questions authority.
"There's battle lines being drawn
Nobody's right if everybody's wrong
Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
Step out of line, the man come and take you away"
WK, Boy ain't that the truth. Truer now than it was then.
Original Mike, the mask info you linked was interesting, but it is out of date (March 23), and it refers to "surgical masks."
In my state all that the law requires is a face covering.
It seems that there is a dilemma: surgical masks, properly worn and cared for, would reduce the spread of the virus, but we need to save those for real medical people, and common people can't be trusted to use & care for surgical masks correctly anyhow.
The nursing home death houses work against the idea that masks save lives. Presumably these are a subset of people already under medical care. They are dropping like flies.
"Wearing a mask is an act of consideration for others."
So when can we stop? When and who sounds the "all clear" siren for the eloi? The authorities will not lead. lacking any pushback, their dead hands will leave mask wearing in place in perpetuity. Like all such conventions, they stop only when enough people realize that they are silly. The authorities will follow, and congratulate themselves for their judgement.
The masks are about other people, not you you stupid asshole "Karen". These anti-mask morons have really turned me off on Republicans. I think I am done voting.
If you're the type who gets off telling other people what to do - and shaming them in the process - you weren't much of a Republican/conservative in the first place. Karen.
I just read an AP article about Contact Tracers in Utah. It includes the questions asked (Link).
Key quote, the contact tracers "...try to reach everyone the original person was within 6 feet (1.8 meters) of for 10 minutes or more" Nothing in the article about whether they were wearing masks. It's all proximity and length of time. What I conclude: Mask-wearing outside is pointless. Mask-wearing inside is of dubious value.
Blogger Michael McNeil said...
That could be a problem — in the case of bacterial (or archaeal, or protozoal) diseases. But, fortunately for us, this particular pandemic is caused by a virus. Viruses (their infectious virus particles anyway) are not alive, and cannot “grow.”
Great point and I should not have missed it.
But, I also should have checked the Peking Pox size. It seems that it may not be known but also seems to be around 100-200 nanometers.
That is 0.1 to 0.2 microns. That is small enough to fit through the 0.3 micron pore size of most bacterial filters.
HEPA filters, which are absolute filters are rated at 0.3 microns. So won't stop viruses.
Unless they get trapped on the surface and don't find their way to a pore.
But if they do find a pore, they will fit through.
John Henry
Cookie,
What other behaviors we will be forced to enact (by the State) out of consideration of others?
This supposed "crisis" provides an opportunity to fundamentally restructure society in a collectivist mode. That is why the Left is all in on staying locked down.
Waaah waaah waaah! I don’t want to wear a mask but open my business!!!!
Please don't wear one for me. All I see is someone with a petri dish on their face blowing the contents at me, and digging in it with their fingers before they grab the door handles or hand me my change. No, thank you. I actually appreciate those who do not wear them. They make me feel safer and like things are returning to normal. They give me hope that there are still some reasonable, non-conformists that don't cower in their holes in America, that don't just do things because some authority figure tells them to, usually just before doing the exact opposite themselves.
"@Robert Cook,
"We don't agree on much, but I just wanted to say I'm glad you survived your leukemia. I had a close friend who passed away from it years ago after a long battle, and it was heartbreaking."
Thank you, Andrew, I appreciate that.
John Henry et al: Masks are still at least partially effective despite the fact that the holes in the weave are larger than the virus particles. The way I've read that works is that a large number of the viruses get stuck to the particles of cloth and don't continue onwards. Also, the viruses don't travel in zig-zag patterns, so that's why masks should have several layers. Finally, a mask no matter how flimsy will still stop the water droplets that may be otherwise inhaled.
"What other behaviors we will be forced to enact (by the State) out of consideration of others?"
Ummm...don't threaten, harm, or kill them, don't cheat or steal from them, don't antagonize them, don't dump trash onto their property, respect their space, etc., etc.
He should be thinking that he will look really foolish if he now gets the virus and gets really sick. That has happened to other skeptics.
Yep, and all seven of them made national news.
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