I'm seeing the front-page teaser at WaPo: "No more spitting in baseball? Safety proposals would bar many MLB staples." The article is "MLB proposes safety plan that covers everything from sunflower seeds to lineup card exchanges." Excerpt:
A baseball game with no spitting? Yes, and that includes sunflower seeds, a staple for many modern ballplayers.And no spitballs!
Players and coaches “must make every effort to avoid touching their face with their hands (including to give signs), wiping away sweat with their hands, licking their fingers, whistling with their fingers, etc.” There would be no bat boys or bat girls, and balls that are put in play and touched by multiple players — a groundout, a relay throw — would be removed and exchanged for a new baseball.
From the comments at WaPo:
I need a guy to explain this to me. i work in an office with tons of guys, all ages, and I have never, ever seen one of them spit. At their desk, in a meeting, on the phone, walking to a customer meeting, never. Why, then is it required for sports people to spit? Can’t they just swallow it? Is it contaminated or something?Ha ha. It's funny, the presumed gender difference. It's a man problem... or prerogative. This made me think of a post I wrote 16 years ago: "Freud and the counterculture girl":
Yesterday, I was walking down State Street and there was this young woman leaning forward with her mouth open, making an odd gurgling noise, which forced me to turn and look at her just in time to see her spew a huge green globule out onto the sidewalk. Involuntarily (I think) I let out with a perfectly audible "uuuugggghhhh." The globule-source calls out, "Wouldn't it be more disgusting if I swallowed it?" Another young woman, more the student type than the street person type, yells back, "No!" She's striding along talking on a cell phone and explains what happened into the phone as she overtakes me walking down the street. Phone girl makes me laugh, and she turns to me and says, "Counterculture!"There was a poll at that point, but it has gone dead. I vaguely remember that the options were detailed and interesting.
The story of the woman on the street and her counterculture notions of propriety calls to mind this story that Freud relates in "The Interpretation of Dreams" (note that this is a true story about himself, which he views as the source material for a dream):
When I pay my morning visit at this house I am usually seized with a desire to clear my throat; the sputum falls on the stairs. There is no spittoon on either of the two floors, and I consider that the stairs should be kept clean not at my expense, but rather by the provision of a spittoon. The housekeeper, another elderly, curmudgeonly person, but, as I willingly admit, a woman of cleanly instincts, takes a different view of the matter. She lies in wait for me, to see whether I shall take the liberty referred to, and if she sees that I do I can distinctly hear her growl. For days thereafter, when we meet, she refuses to greet me with the customary signs of respect."Imagine thinking the lack of a spittoon entitles you to spit on the stairs repeatedly and to be disdainful of the poor old woman who has had to clean it up for being insufficiently happy to see you! And I love the expression "the sputum falls"! No agency on his part there. And the housekeeper is accused of having negative character traits--she's "curmudgeonly" and has crabbed "cleanly instincts"--and this instinctive creature ridden with disgust is such an animal she "growls" and cannot muster the "customary signs of respect."
So what do you conclude is the difference between Freud and counterculture girl?
ADDED: Here's my idea for bringing back baseball. Invite players to play within a completely quarantined system. House them together. Let them eat, sleep, and play within a secure circle. Everyone is tested and disease free. How many teams could you piece together with these volunteers?
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60 comments:
Baseball is played by guys.
Does this really need explained?
Can’t they just swallow it? She is obviously not an athlete.
Spitting in baseball is an artifact of the historical tendency to chew tobacco, probably as a result of all the downtime players experience, along with the lack of impact in play (imagine chewing on something while playing football). When chewing tobacco went out of fashion, they switched to gum or sunflower seeds. It’s a habit that’s probably easy to break.
But back to the swallowing—the saliva that builds up in your mouth during physical exertion has a viscous quality to it that doesn’t go down well and can even cause a bit of nausea. Swallowing is not a good substitute for spitting.
The same people who object to you spitting on the stairs are those who try to shame you for not bringing your shopping cart back to the storefront.
THEOLDMAN
"When I pay my morning visit at this house I am usually seized with a desire to clear my throat; the sputum falls on the stairs."
When my intern pays her morning visit to the Oval Office I am usually seized with a desire to clear my testicles; the ejaculate falls on her blue dress.
"Swallowing is not a good substitute for spitting."
Spittoons all around!
In the dugout, next to first base, at home plate, in the outfield...
It will add an element of the obstacle course.
Sometimes a [spittoon] is just a cigar [holder].
Swallowing vs spitting? Hmmm this one is teed up well. GO!
Sorry, not sorry. It looks childish and disgusting to see these grown men constantly spitting these tiny little spitballs just about EVERY time a camera pans their way.
The majority of it all is habit. Grow up, break it.
Tim Maguire, are you sure chewing tobacco went out of style at the MLB?
Might as well cancel baseball. It's part of the sport. Tobacco chewing, sunflower seed spitting, gum chawing is what they do. There are two things that are as much a part of baseball as pushing the bunt to third to move a guy up to second: spitting and grabbing your balls. Take either or both of those things out of the game and they won't know what to do with themselves. Maybe they could munch on dried kale chips? How to Sunflower
Tim maguire is half right. Despite all the warning about throat and mouth cancers, some baseball players still do chew tobacco. Also many chew sunflower seeds and need to spit out the husks. I don’t think it hurts them to be told they can only chew in the dugout and need to spit into a disposable cup.
Making the baseball players wear masks should stop people from being offended or worried about the players spitting. Safety first, I say!
"balls that are put in play and touched by multiple players — a groundout, a relay throw — would be removed and exchanged for a new baseball"
Chance that that virus is transmitted from hands to balls . . . Chance that virus gets transmitted from ball to hand . . . Chance that virus is transmitted from hand to airways . . . Chance that transmission results in complications among healthy athletes . . .
Conclusion: safety theater.
But I am in favor no spitting. Next: no chewing of any kind.
This is another example of this whole affair as theater.
All of these scripted actions. None are enforceable. Nor does the govt have any desire to enforce them. Restaurants at 50% capacity, never defining capacity. Rules, err, suggestions at gyms. Not to be enforced but signals to Karens as to fair targets of shaming. This push and pull is natures way of people finding their own way.
Governors and mayors know any control they are trying to exert, is nothing but theater. Govt actors know they have lost control, they are now trying to save face. Loosening of rules will go mostly un-announced. But the govt must allow what is already happening, so official notice of less restrictions will follow, not precede the actual lifting of rules.
This whole affair has been dreadfully costly. Actual numbers coming in are showing this virus to be less fatal than the flu. Except for the known and finite number of people with specific conditions. But as of yet, protecting that population has yet to become a point of emphasis
Pretending to ban spitting in baseball, will not prevent a single person from becoming ill.
You don't see football players spitting.
They undergo at least [if not much more, when on the field] exertion as baseball players but you don't see them doing all that spitting. Yes, they wear a mouth-piece. It easily comes out if they "needed" to spit. They don't. In part for who wants to get tackled into someone else's spit but also if the "need to spit" was a thing, there would have been some way to accommodate it.
I don't think you see "footballers" (i.e. soccer) players spitting with the frequency of baseball payers either (not that I watch much/any soccer but from what I have seen, they don't really do it either).
Can’t they just swallow it?
I ask my girlfriends this, All the time
But they Still spit it out...
Or, let it dribble down their chin, which is actually , pretty hot
Must be a girl thing
Wasn't chewing tobacco a thing back in the day? If you swallow you will barf.
Freud was a weirdo.
Because 20-40 year olds in prime physical condition are one of the most at-risk groups.
My forehead hurts from the giant eye roll I just did.
https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/05/15/we-could-open-up-again-and-forget-the-whole-thing/
Such Hysterics. Is this a national competition or something. A nation to be led like sheep to the slaughter. Has Streisand or Whoopie chimed in on this shit?
At least the ballplayers wear gloves. And the catcher wears a mask. Isn't that enough?
How many moves will we have memorized before this particular dance ends?
I don't think you see "footballers" (i.e. soccer) players spitting with the frequency of baseball payers either
I watch a fair amount of Premier League Football/Soccer and spitting does occur but much less frequently than baseball. However, players often take a quick drink when there is a break in the action, such as an injury, and spit out the water from their mouth before swallowing. It's a recent trend. One reason given is that it's a way to hydrate quickly. Don't see how that would work.
I need a guy to explain this to me. i work in an office with tons of guys, all ages, and I have never, ever seen one of them spit.
Is the office floor as dusty as a baseball field? Do they run and slide to stir up that dust? If not, how can she compare the two situations?
On the street is different. Ugh. Swallow it and deal. Or carry a handkerchief, if it's a recurring problem.
I have some personal knowledge of this subject.
When I was younger and entering into the work world of part-time and summer jobs, the best jobs a young man could get involved outdoor physical labor. The men on those jobs were part of the tobacco culture, and they smoked cigarettes. But when you are actually laboring, smoking a cigarette is very impractical; you need both hands.
So many of them chewed. The younger men dipped. They spit, but rarely. Most of them chewed to keep their mouth moist, and to get a serious nicotine buzz.
I tried both, but found the nicotine surge unpleasant, so I rarely partook, either when working or playing baseball or softball.
Minor leaguers have been prohibited from using tobacco for several years now. Very few remaining major leaguers chew or dip. The lump in their mouth is sunflower seeds or bubble gum. But they still spit. For men, spitting when outdoors is a normal thing.
And this: When I was a young prosecutor in central Illinois back in the early 80s, I tried cases against older lawyers who would dip in the courtroom. I never saw them spit.
I could give you a lot more on this topic, but that's enough for a Sunday morn.
My heart breaks for the thousands, nay tens of thousands, who will die because of the careless spitting of sunflower seeds on pristine baseball fields across our wounded land.
I've never heard such bull shit in my life concerning athletics or damn near any activity with extreme physical exertion. Everybody spits or blows their noses without a hankie. Ever hear of cotton mouth? Football players are the worst, they bleed on each other, sweat on each other and blow their noses into their hands and face mask. To some degree baseball and basketball players do the same. Ever see a time out to bring hankies on to the field or court?
Spiting, chewing and even smoking in golf is a mental tic to relax and focus. This is hysterics.
"House them together. Let them eat, sleep, and play within a secure circle."
You're going to need girls in there, or there's no reason to play.
For several years, new major league players have been barred from chewing tobacco. Long-term players are grandfathered in. I think that most clubs had already barred chewing tobacco among their minor leagues (who have no union protection). You can always see an enormous jar of bubble gum in the dugout.
Oh, sure, but when a guy asks that question ...
Well, I am surprised this got coughed up this morning. A-hem.
But on the topic of baseball and the virus, the 1968-1970 seasons went off without a hitch and with no deaths. Oh yeah, no major-leaguers are over 65. No wonder.
And 1957 was a great season, too. The MILWAUKEE Braves won the World Series. Henry Aaron vs. Mickey Mantle. Lew Burdette.
People have lost their minds over this virus.
We really do need to get on with life.
Baseball players spit to show they are not nervous or scared.
The game has a machismo element to it, and you can't be seen as wimpy.
If you are scared or nervous you can not work up any spit, your mouth would be dry.
They know when they are on camera too, so that is when they must show they can spit.
This is nothing more than Safety Theater, which is interesting in that the Security Theater rule about no more than 100 milliliters of liquid in airplane carry on items was suspended to allow hand sanitizer (containing a significant amount of alcohol) in greater amounts.
Can’t wait for the “no sweating” rules.
Danno said...
Tim Maguire, are you sure chewing tobacco went out of style at the MLB?
5/17/20, 7:15 AM
I believe MLB banned chewing tobacco in the dugout after the great Tony Gywnne died of cancer of the mouth.
I've never liked the spitting. I was always sort of awed by the amount of saliva a MLB player produces, though. It's like Pavlov's dogs - they set foot on a baseball diamond and instantly produce gallons of spit.
The floors of those dugouts must have been absolutely disgusting - and slippery.
The worst thing about safety theater is that it makes us all live in a false, contrived, reality, and mostly pretend it's not false. Forgive me if that makes me want to grow beards, get weird, and disappear into the mountains, because there's nothin but clowns round here.
Can someone point to the death toll, real or imagined, from spitting in baseball?
I liked it a lot better when the default was that you could do what you wanted and there had to be a really good reason for someone to stop you from it.
This is about as useful as expecting birth control by banning them from having sex during the game. Another in our long running series of Safety Theater. Authority figures are neurotically posing everywhere to show they are responsible. Safety is the nation's number one safety issue. It's causing more damage than anything else we do.
My lord, are we really contemplating trying to “manage” this? I’m so absolutely tired of the stupidity of this. You can NOT quarantine the healthy, it is impossible and ridiculous. Our response to this is Hurricane Harvey times a trillion. There WILL be another one, what then? The same, worse, longer? This is stupid, untenable and unrepeatable.
We must get out of our lazy boys and get one with living. All of it, crowded bars, parks, arenas, dating, all of it. Protect and quarantine the sick, but this can not stand.
You know what's coming next, gentleman. The Radfem NuWave Marxist lesbo-stalinists minders will outlaw scratching your balls and readjusting your package.
Reminds me of the baseball scene from the Naked Gun movies. Everyone is spitting and grabbing their crotch, even the players’ wives.
Play Ball!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThMjlCxvxZI
First they came for the criers, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a criers.
Then they came for the spitters, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a spitter.
Then they came for the crotch-rubbers, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a crotch-rubber.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
Wow, every single time I think rhhardin is completely wrong, reality proves him right.
This made me think of a post I wrote 16 years ago: "Freud and the counterculture girl" ...
And that made me think of Eve Kosofsky Sedgwick's Jane Austen and the Masturbating Girl ...
In such a rigidly hierarchical society, not everyone could be "master of their own domain" ...
Mary Beth nails it. Lots of dust in the infield. The tobacco/sunflower seeds help create saliva to expectorate that mouthful of dust you took in during the play at second base. Ask a miner, farmer, logger, or road crew guy.
And of course baseball players are still dipping like crazy. No one’s doing mouth sweeps on multi-million dollar athletes.
"Sports People"? Only in the WaPo.
Basketball players don't spit. Golfers don't spit. Tennis stars rarely spit. I don't recall NFL players spitting in-between plays or World Cup soccer players. Who spits? Baseball players. Why? Because they all chew tobacco or sunflower seeds, or something to keep themselves from being bored while watching the game from the dugout or from the outfield.
That's the problem with Baseball. Unless you're the pitcher/catcher, there's too much standing/sitting around.
Sex, gender, baseball, and viral loads.
Blogger rcocean said...Golfers don't spit. Tennis stars rarely spit. I don't recall NFL players spitting in-between plays or World Cup soccer players. 5/17/20, 11:47 AM
Nice ignorant opinion? You've obviously never played these sports or are blind as a Bat?
Pete Rose said that one time there was much spit on a spit ball that when he made contact some of the spit hit him in the face
Criminy. Did MLB consult with Elizabeth Warren to come up with these guidelines? A new ball each time someone other than the pitcher or catcher touches it? In addition to the infield spittoons, they could have ball cleaning stations! How many people touch the balls before they get to the umpire to bring into the game?
Regarding standing around, I found this elsewhere under "How much live action occurs in each sport?":
Baseball
Clock duration: 2hrs 56mins
Amount of action: 17mins, 58secs
% of action: 10.21%
Football
Clock duration: 3hrs 10mins
Amount of action: 11mins
% of action: 5.79%
FWIW...
The Blue Jays acquired a closer named Bill Caudill in 1985. His performance wasn't that great, but he was great with the media, a likeable guy. He and his wife even shared the story of how they met (doing laundry in a high-rise apartment building), and they seemed a very loving couple. She observed: it was hard to get used to having a spit can in every room of the house.
Also Lilith in Cheers: Why must men euphemize? Woody: Well, he did drink that beer pretty fast.
Mom's lyrics for Escamillo's song in Carmen:
Toreador
Don't spit on the floor
Use the cuspidor
What do ya think it's for?
Both sexes, male and female, can and do spit. Is there a gender, masculine and feminine, disparity?
"Radfem NuWave Marxist lesbo-stalinists minders will outlaw scratching your balls and readjusting your package."
thanks for the idea, comrade.
How many moves will we have memorized before this particular dance ends?
For me? Zero. I've not changed a damn thing since this whole farce started ... other than my anger at so many stupid people following these edicts and shaming those who don't.
Everytime a ball is touched by multiple players it must be changed for a new ball? How the heck is that going to work?
Recognizing that two players is a multiple of 1.
1. A new ball for every pitch?
2. No player can throw it to another player without being changed out?
3. The umpire will never be able to hand a new ball to the catcher to be thrown on the pitcher?
4. Balls are currently roughed up with special mud to reduce the slickness of a new ball. This is a manual process. The balls are then given to a person who gives them to the umpire. No ball will ever make into play?
This is ridiculous.
Nicotine is the perfect drug for baseball. Nicotine is a muscle stimulant and a mental relaxant. Skills like hitting, catching a line drive challenge the human nervous system to its maximum ability. Baseball cannot be played with the pumped up mental aggression as in football, where adrenaline can actually slightly blur you vision. Eyesight and mental awareness require a relaxed, anticipatory mindset.
Is there *anything* the government can't fuck up?
Rhetorical question, no need to answer.
In S. Korea, I learned that it is considered there extremely disgusting to blow your nose in public. That's something they do only in the toilet. OTOH, on the street, men at least, are constantly hocking and spitting. It occurred to me that they do this because they cannot blow their noses. They have to get rid of the mucus by spitting.
It is cute that Boomers think you ALL weren't followers when young. Cute, conceited, ridiculous. Pretty typical of the generation that has given us the most garbage for the least return & expects to be applauded for it. OK, Boomer, indeed.
I've not seen evidence of a generation less self-aware or more projecting of their own faults on others.
It is cute that Boomers think you ALL weren't followers when young. Cute, conceited, ridiculous. Pretty typical of the generation that has given us the most garbage for the least return & expects to be applauded for it. OK, Boomer, indeed.
I've not seen evidence of a generation less self-aware or more projecting of their own faults on others.
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