May 5, 2020

"Scientists have identified a new strain of the coronavirus that has become dominant worldwide and appears to be more contagious..."

"... than the versions that spread in the early days of the COVID-19 pandemic, according to a new study led by scientists at Los Alamos National Laboratory. The new strain appeared in February in Europe, migrated quickly to the East Coast of the United States and has been the dominant strain across the world since mid-March.... The mutation identified in the new report affects the now infamous spikes on the exterior of the coronavirus, which allow it to enter human respiratory cells.... Italy was one of the first countries to see the new virus in the last week of February, almost at the same time that the original strain appeared. Washington was among the first states to get hit with the original strain in late February, but by March 15 the mutated strain dominated. New York was hit by the original virus around March 15, but within days the mutant strain took over.... Some of the [vaccine] compounds in development are supposed to latch onto the spike or interrupt its action. If they were designed based on the original version of the spike, they might not be effective against the new coronavirus strain... Although the researchers don’t yet know the details about how the mutated spike behaves inside the body, it’s clearly doing something that gives it an evolutionary advantage over its predecessor and is fueling its rapid spread. One scientist called it a 'classic case of Darwinian evolution.'"

From "A mutant coronavirus has emerged, even more contagious than the original, study says" (L.A. Times reports).

200 comments:

gilbar said...

The ONLY THING WE CAN DO,
IS LISTEN TO THE "EXPERTS" WHILE THEY TELL US TO SUSPEND ALL CIVIL LIBERTIES
AFTER ALL, THEY ARE THE "EXPERTS"!

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

hey media - Tell us more about the person from China who spread it in Washington state.

Howard said...

More lies from the deep state to take away our freedom

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

Hillary is giddy.

Sebastian said...

Contagious, how? As in, just that more people will become infected? Or as in, more people will experience serious complications?

gilbar said...

Oregon Gov Brown extends Lockdown orders; until July 6th,
or when ALL INFECTIOUS DISEASES erradicated from earth: Which ever comes later

Hari said...

Virus porn.

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

Hey a new scare tactic just as everyone is starting to realize that their is no authority for the government to “quarantine” the healthy against their will. Quarantined are supposed to confine the sick and exposed NOT to imprison healthy citizens as a prophylactic.

Birches said...

This makes sense given that we know the virus was out of China far earlier than anyone knew. They've got a guy in France who had it back in December.

AlbertAnonymous said...

You low life plebs aren’t frightened enough. Some are even threatening to break ranks and leave their homes for the beach. We can’t have that. So, to scare you into submission — a new strain of coronavirus. This one even more deadly and scary!

Submit! Do only what we tell you! Or else you’ll all die!

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Sure....we believe you. First you don't know how bad the WuhanFlu virus is. Is it man made? Is it natural? We are all gonna die!!!! oh wait....not so much.

But.. we should all lock down in limbo until a vaccine is made...maybe in a few weeks or next year or later But wait there is MORE!!! Viruses mutate and change. DUH!!! So ANY vaccine made today is useless next year. Just like every flu virus today is targeting LAST YEAR'S model.

The real point is to scare the sheep, empower the Karens and keep expanding government control.

Wince said...

One scientist called it a 'classic case of Darwinian evolution.'

Who knew Darwin worked in the Wuhan lab?

Earnest Prole said...

Viruses are just part of the Great Circle of Life, except that they aren't alive and there's no circle.

Temujin said...

Viruses mutate? Huh. Who'd a thunk it? I sure hope SCIENCE! is aware of this.

DanTheMan said...

This is turning into some sort of Kafkaesque telethon...
"C'mon, let's dig deeper. We can get to 11 million!"

Birches said...

And yes, I really don't trust a journalist to report on a medical research document accurately, even if they didn't mean to mislead.

rcocean said...

Scaremongering, get your fear right here, two scares for a dollar. Three scares for a buck 25. Imagine the death - feel the fright. Get your red hot Cornovirus Death scares!

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

Mutant viruses are real but also happy coincidences!

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

Also see my “deaths per day” contribution in the Byrd post for “good news context” for why ginning up a new panic is necessary now. For the fascists I mean. They need a new scary story to sway us with.

rcocean said...

Things will continue to terrible - till Joe Biden is elected in November. Then the MSM will mysteriously change its tune.

Fernandinande said...

"Spikes" - "blobs" is a better descriptor.

a 'classic case of Darwinian evolution.'

Along with all other current forms of life.

narciso said...

wait how did it get to france, this was before Chinese new year, when there was the big exodus, how did the fishmonger get it?

gilbar said...

do y'all know WHY there is no cure for the common cold?
because there's not A common cold... there are common colds
EVERY TIME you catch a cold... YOU, will NEVER get THAT COLD Again: You're Immune
BUT!
EVERY TIME there is a cold going 'round... It is A NEW COLD: and You're NOT Immune to that one

THAT is Why there isn't (CAN'T BE) a vaccine for "the Common Cold"...
You NEED a DIFFERENT Vaccine for EACH NEW COLD

oh, by the way, another name for a "Common Cold" virus is: A CORONA VIRUS
SO, EACH NEW COLD is, BY DEFINITION: A NOVEL CORONA VIRUS
All the people that have been saying, this Covid-19 virus is "NOTHING LIKE" the flu, are right
It's NOT a Flu virus, it's a COLD VIRUS

And IF we (like Oregon,) are going to remain in lockdown until there is a vaccine
WE WILL REMAIN IN LOCKDOWN, FOREVER

That's the Science... To Deny Science is to Admit Ignorance"

Nonapod said...

I don't know that this explains it, but I did find it a little odd that New York City got so bad so quickly relative to other densely populated metro areas. I mean, yeah, the NYC subway system helped spread it quickly, but it still seemed a little weird that it exploded so quickly just in NYC and nowhere else.

whitney said...

only matters if it's more deadly

elkh1 said...

More contagious and weaker, like the flu or the common cold?

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

Where’s the peak?

SGT Ted said...

More media driven fear porn.

narciso said...

yes the variability of the strains, makes a proper guess on the right target of immunizations kind of like a piƱata,

Inga said...

I don’t know what the LA Times article says, it’s behind a paywall, but I was reading this in the NY Post this AM.

“A mutation in the novel coronavirus mirrors a change that occurred in the genetically similar SARS virus in 2003 — indicating that the bug might be weakening, researchers announced in a newly published study.

One of the reasons why this mutation is of interest is because it mirrors a large deletion that arose in the 2003 SARS outbreak,” Lim said in a statement.

During the middle and late phases of the 2003 SARS epidemic, the virus accumulated mutations that lessened its strength, according to the researchers.

“Where the deletion occurs in the genome is pretty meaningful because it’s a known immune protein which means it counteracts the host’s antiviral response,” Lim told the Daily Mail.

A weakened virus that causes less severe symptoms may get a leg up if it is able to spread efficiently through populations by people who don’t know they are infected, the scientists say.”

https://nypost.com/2020/05/05/new-mutation-indicates-that-coronavirus-might-be-weakening-study/

gilbar said...

Nine feet (i think?) said
a little odd that New York City got so bad so quickly relative to other densely populated metro areas


Did OTHER densely populated metro areas ship infected people to nursing homes?

TrespassersW said...

Go here: https://informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/covid-19-coronavirus-infographic-datapack/

Scroll down the page a bit to the chart labeled "How Contagious & Deadly Is It?" Note that, comparatively speaking, COVID isn't that much more infectious or deadly than seasonal influenza.

Don't succumb to the hype.

Howard said...

When you squash a peak, you get a broad mound.

Known Unknown said...

The New York Times has a FEMA report about how deaths will "spike" back up to 3k per day by June 1.

So FEMA is good now? JFC. What a clown show our authority/media are.

Darkisland said...

They have lied to us about everything else with this Kung Flu.

Why should we believe a word they say now?

John Henry

Howard said...

Inga, do you watch the Medcram YouTube covid-19 updates? Can't wait to see what they say about the mutation.

Inga said...

“Inga, do you watch the Medcram YouTube covid-19 updates? Can't wait to see what they say about the mutation.”

Yes, I do and yep, it’ll be interesting. I also watch Dr.John Campbell daily.

Paul Snively said...

One scientist called it a 'classic case of Darwinian evolution.'"

Then at least one scientist fails to understand Darwinism, which is about speciation by natural selection over long periods of time—millennia on the short end, hundreds of millions of years on the long end. SARS-Cov2 is 1) not a species of anything, 2) hasn't had time to "find" an ecological niche it's maladapted to so badly it dies off, but some "close relative" is better adapted to and so it thrives, _giving rise to a new species_.

Talk like this is nothing more than "pop Darwinism," and goes a long way toward making "scientists" who use it look like exactly the kind of pompous, self-righteous morons the religious right tends to claim all scientists are..

Quayle said...

"a 'classic case of Darwinian evolution."

Yeah, except the virus is not alive.

Michael said...

So more contagious than the most contagious virus we already have? Sweet Jesus, Althouse will have to up her 11 million death estimate.

Quayle said...

"a 'classic case of Darwinian evolution."

More like one rock had a jagged edge and cut your foot, while the other rock was rounder and didn't.

CJinPA said...

New Developments Being Reported:

* A new, more dangerous strain
* A coming spike in deaths that will halt reopening communities

If exaggerated, standard procedure. We're used to it.

If true, the coming blow-back against China will mutate into something much more serious.

Inga said...

I’ve read that viruses that kill off too many of their hosts are not efficient viruses, the weaker viruses that are more contagious but don’t kill too many of it’s hosts are more successful, because the sole purpose of the virus is so survive and replicate. No live beings left to infect, the virus doesn’t survive either.

Quayle said...

"a 'classic case of Darwinian evolution."

Sorry, but this statement is really sticking in my craw.

Suppose you had a virus that was so "evolved" that it killed its recipient in 10 minutes.

Was that a Darwinian triumph?

Answer is 'no'. Because in 10 minutes the virus wouldn't be transmitted or passed along.

But that's our "science" today. 'Darwin! Is there anything it can't explain?'

Known Unknown said...

"* A coming spike in deaths that will halt reopening communities"

FLATTEN THE CURVE to allow for medical resources, not no new cases/deaths.

Power corrupts.

Andy said...

The team did not report results for California.
There was a report a couple of weeks ago about a group that was tracing mutations of the virus. They had reported that most of the strain or virus sub-type (I think thats how they worded it) that spread around the US outside of the east coast had developed in Washington state after the introduction of the original virus from China. They had reported at the time that the mutation that was hitting NY was from Austria not Italy. Here from Drexel
“Our preliminary analysis, using publicly available data from across the world, is showing that the combination of subtypes of virus found in New York is most similar to those found in Austria, France and Central Europe, but not Italy. And the subtype from Asia, that was detected here early in the pandemic has not spread very much, instead we are seeing a new subtype that only exists in America as the one most prevalent in Washington state and on the west coast.”

Nonapod said...

The perfect scenario for a virus is to be very contagious but not particularly that detrimental to its host. A viruses "goal" (if such a thing can be ascribed to it) is to replicate. As a virus becomes more deleterious to its host, the host is going to become less mobile and therefore less likely to spread the virus to a new host. So ideally a virus really wants to be less of an inconvenience to its host so it'll be more likely to spread to new hosts

MD Greene said...

The reason to take this report seriously is because it may have come from the LAT's new owner, Dr. Patrick Soon-Shiong, a medical polymath who made billions developing an effective treatment for several cancers.

The paper's editorial staff are every bit as illiterate and innumerate as others in the field these days. One certain casualty of this coronavirus will be journalism as it is currently understood, which, one hopes, will open the space to something more credible.

AllenS said...

I'm convinced that Dr Fauci needs to go, and go now.

Quayle said...

"A viruses "goal" (if such a thing can be ascribed to it) is to replicate."

Don't be so ignorant.

The virus wants to champion the oppressed, fight for the underdog in all causes, have rich Wall Street friends who set it up with a cushy job, and eventually join the other caring people on Martha's Vineyard where it can have fascinating conversations with other highly educated people during the evening parties, fly to Europe when it desires, and work for social justice from its foundation's Manhattan suite.

Of course it has a goal. Its goal is to evolve, like everyone else.

MAJMike said...

The experts and their models have been wrong over and over again. Quarantine the sick, protect the high risk, free all others to pursue their livelihoods.

D.D. Driver said...

So Wisconsin saw a ~33% drop in ICU patients yesterday. From 116 patients on Sunday down to 78 on Monday. But there is absolutely zero news coverage. I'm pretty sure this would be the lead story if there was a 33% "spike."

Original Mike said...

"a little odd that New York City got so bad so quickly relative to other densely populated metro areas"

I figured it was divine retribution.

D.D. Driver said...

...and there was only one death so that is not the explanation. A bunch of people appear to have gotten better or the data is garbage.

bagoh20 said...

I, for one, welcome our viral overlords. Come, sweet Corona my love, take me.


So this sounds like they are simply describing the virus we have been experiencing from early on. The story is not something new. Nothing has changed, but lets try to get some clicks with scare tactics. There are a lot of people making money of this pandemic, and almost all them are doing by scaring people. There should eventually be a price for doing that crap. It's absolutley immoral.

Fernandinande said...

Of course it has a goal. Its goal is to evolve, like everyone else.

That makes as much sense as saying that the goal of a stream is to evolve into a canyon.

As a virus becomes more deleterious to its host, the host is going to become less mobile and therefore less likely to spread the virus to a new host.

On the other hand, it produces symptoms in its host, like sneezing, which help it spread. Host-parasite interactions are complicated, especially since the parasite can usually evolve much more quickly than the host.

Be like a tree said...

Editor to writers: Let's put together another scary story about the virus but like we always do make sure that it lacks any meaningful details, context and slams Trump.

narciso said...

so why is it evolving exposure to hcq or rendesvir, I linked the story about that connection to the gates foundation and unitaid, which happens to be based in Wuhan, quelle surprise,

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

Why won’t the media report any good news? Even the author of the “3000 dead per day in June” analyses came out and said he was NOT making a prediction but looking at behavior. So again, if EVERYONE rushes out of “quarantine” at once it could spike again. Could. WON’T but “could” spike. But won’t.

Although without actually citing numbers FNC just now reported NY saw a drop in Deaths/day today. Unexpectedly.

Bay Area Guy said...

"to a new study led by scientists at Los Alamos National Laboratory. "

I thought Los Alamos had tough smart guys making nuclear bombs, not nerdy scientists striving for relevance with their microscopes.

Andrew said...

It's like the East Coast vs. West Coast hip-hop rivalry. Each claiming their territory. Tupac v. Notorious BIG. This analogy means that the viruses will die.

bagoh20 said...

""a little odd that New York City got so bad so quickly relative to other densely populated metro areas"

It appears that this is how Democrats identity a great leader for President. You have a disaster, and then find the leader who performed the poorest for his people and nominate him after dumping the guy who won the most votes and fought his way through the primary. It's a search for America's biggest loser, and Cuomo has no close second.

stevew said...

"has emerged", back in February, at least, and at the beginning of the currently declining peak in the pandemic?

Andy said...

The thing about New York is that of our bigger cities NY is in a different league with regards to population density. Of our five largest cities NY has more than twice the population density at +28k over +11k for Chicago. So the outbreak that NYC had isn't a surprise.

Quayle said...

"...NY has more than twice the population density..."

I used to ride the Path train from New Jersey to Manhattan, during rush hours. Lots of times you had to strain to keep your nose out of someone's ear.

I'm Full of Soup said...

The suburban counties surrounding Philly are starting to rebel against the governor's lockdown plans. That is a good sign.

narciso said...

that would be zombie governor Mario,


https://twitter.com/AlexBerenson/status/1257660802271711245?s=20

Inga said...

I was able to read the LA Times article by going into Private Mode. It looks like this mutation is a different one than the one I’ve been reading about this AM. So, not good news regarding this mutation. I prefer the mutation that I’ve been reading about in the NY Post and elsewhere to this one in the LA Times.

bagoh20 said...

Future campaign ad: "Let Andrew do for America what he did for New York."

Ad paid for by the Trump campaign.


I had to redo this becuase I wrote "Mario". That freaking Biden virus is contagious. C'mon man. You know what I meant.

hombre said...

Yes. Be afraid! Be very afraid of this “new strain” that has been here for months. Also, hoard meat. It is the new toilet paper.

The Mediaswine Virus abides!

DanTheMan said...

>>Even the author of the “3000 dead per day in June” analyses came out and said he was NOT making a prediction but looking at behavior.

The Department of Pulling Numbers Out of Our Ass will be very upset. It's THEIR job to invent new numbers every few days.

New numbers are much better than old numbers. Why would anyone even mention the old numbers?

Nonapod said...

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...
Why won’t the media report any good news? Even the author of the “3000 dead per day in June” analyses came out and said he was NOT making a prediction but looking at behavior.


Here's some good news: The daily death rate from Covid-19 for the US dropped below 1000 (938) yesterday for the first time since April 1st. NYC only had 143 deaths, continuing it's downword trend for the 5th day in a row now.

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

Just another day when the headline (“3000!”) is 180 degrees out of phase with the actual “news” underlying it. Sigh.

Fernandinande said...

"a 'classic case of Darwinian evolution."

Sorry, but this statement is really sticking in my craw.


It's true, though, along with being true for all existing life, including the original virus (minus the argument about whether viruses are alive).

Suppose you had a virus that was so "evolved" that it killed its recipient in 10 minutes.
Was that a Darwinian triumph?


You inserted the concept of "triumph", but consistent with your faulty statement that the goal is to evolve, evolving to kill your host is a triumph since it evolved.

stevew said...

Are we living in a real world version of "The Stand" yet?

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

Yes Nonapod, I am fascinated that “deaths per day” went unreported for two months until suddenly we get the “3000 per day will die in June!” Headline, just in the nick of time to obscure the actual news about hard numbers improving D/D in NYC. How very coincidental in a very DNC-Media way!

Todd said...

I am one of the lucky few who has been able to work from home during this "national lock-down". I truly feel for those that have been not working and not earning through all of this. I just can not understand how the various Governors can continue squeeze the vice on the citizens of their states.

First it was [and one can make the argument this was in good faith] we need to flatten the curve! If not, the healthcare system will be overloaded and everyone will die! Well that curve is flattened!

Now we are learning that this thing was actually here as early as December (in NV) and likely a little before that. Now we are learning that many, many folks (far more than expected) have tested positive for the antibodies; meaning that they have already been exposed and recovered from it.

What do some of the Governors do? Double-down on the lock down! Are they trying to completely tank their states?

Now the press is reporting a more deadly strain the the prior deadly strain that was going to kill MILLIONS or more but didn't because either social distancing worked (but didn't) or the lock-downs worked (but didn't), NOT that it could ever have been "Oops, sorry! We just did not know so planned for the worst and it an't really that bad so better safe than sorry, go back to your lives!". Instead it is "Not only were we experts ALL right but we are double-plus-good right cause look at all the millions of lives saved based on our guestimation models and we have to double-down on the lock-down cause there is now an even greater mutation of this going around!".

And the "experts" across all fields wonder why the average person is ignoring them.

When will these folks be happy? When the number of deaths by starvation goes higher than the WinnieTheFlu deaths do?

Nonapod said...

Evolving is not a goal, it's an emergent phenomenon. It occurs as a natural furtherance of a goal, but it is not in and of itself a goal.

D.D. Driver said...

"It's getting warmer in the Midwest, and that will bring the numbers down temporarily, except it might be offspread by more people out and about mixing, then back in indoors air again when it gets (temporarily) cold again, before summer officially sets in..."

Yeah. I'm not sure what the explanation is but "better weather inside the ICU" is not it.

This also is not a one day blip. Even though overall cases are increasing (PANIC!) serious cases have been steadily declining and then yesterday they fell off the cliff. If you believe the data (and I am skeptical).

Date....NewCases....Death...Tot.InPatient.....Tot.ICU....
4-23.......207........11..........349(-6).......146(+7)
4-24.......304........5...........361(+12)......143(-3)
4-25.......331........4...........337(-24)......136(-7)
4-26.......224........6...........343(+6).......140(+4)
4-27.......170........9...........337(-6).......124(-16)
4-28.......208........19..........351(+14)......123(-1)
4-29.......231........8...........350(-1).......121(-2)
4-30.......334........8...........359(+9).......119(-2)
5-1........460........11..........342(-17)......127(+8)
5-2........346........7...........351(+9).......118(-9)
5-3........304........5...........347(-4).......116(-2)
5-4........272........1...........328(-19)......78(-38)

bagoh20 said...

Worldwide, New York is first in Covid deaths, but 8th in population density.

Quayle said...

"(minus the argument about whether viruses are alive)"

FF, its easy when you drop the main impediment, isn't it.

You presume a causal direction. That's pretty faulty in my view.

Inga said...

It would be helpful to know what strains are dominant and in which parts of the country. Testing is imperative. Maybe the west coast has a prevalence of a milder strain than the east coast, that would make a lot of sense, but without MUCH more testing we won’t know.

“Wherever the new strain appeared, it quickly infected far more people than the earlier strains that came out of Wuhan, China, and within weeks it was the only strain that was prevalent in some nations, according to the report. The new strain’s dominance over its predecessors demonstrates that it is more infectious, according to the report, though exactly why is not yet known.

The report was based on a computational analysis of more than 6,000 coronavirus sequences from around the world, collected by the Global Initiative for Sharing All Influenza Data, a public-private organization in Germany. Time and again, the analysis found the new version was transitioning to become dominant.”

https://www.theyucatantimes.com/2020/05/study-shows-mutant-coronavirus-has-emerged-even-more-contagious-than-the-original/

Bay Area Guy said...

Did you know Planet Earth has 8 Billion People, and that 57 Million will die this year?!!?

That's nearly 5 Million deaths/month!

At the end of the year, it will be interesting to see how many "excess" deaths in the US there were from this terrible new virus, or if these geniuses are mostly just reclassifying other deaths (flu, diabetes, heart disease, etc, etc, etc) in mostly sick, elderly people.

Quayle said...

"Evolving is not a goal, it's an emergent phenomenon. It occurs as a natural furtherance of a goal, but it is not in and of itself a goal."

Agree. At best, evolving is 'last man standing'.

But to ascribe the will to live to a virus seems a bit sloppy, doesn't it, for a hardcore, rock-ribbed scientist.

(Not so sloppy for a creationist.)

Lurker21 said...

Here we go again!

Reminds me of that line in the Country Joe and the Fish song about Vietnam that respect for those we have lost forbids me from quoting.

narciso said...

oh never mind


https://twitter.com/VickiMcKenna/status/1257687558349258752?s=20

Fernandinande said...

it produces symptoms in its host, like sneezing, which help it spread.

The funnest examples of parasites causing symptoms in the host which help the parasite spread, are the rabies virus which makes the infected animal aggressive in order to spread the virus through biting before the host dies, and the ophiocordyceps fungus which causes insects, especially ants, to act in ways which spread the fungus spores more efficiently than their normal behovior would do (e.g. make the ant climb to the top of a stalk of grass, then emit spores and die).

Both typically kill their hosts, and the fungus sometimes kills entire populations of its hosts. A parasite evolving to become nicer to its host isn't a given.

stevew said...

Test, trace, and track is not a reasonable, achievable goal in a nation of >330 million people.

MadisonMan said...

It would be helpful to know what strains are dominant and in which parts of the country.
The government wants to control you. It doesn't want to give you useful information.

Nonapod said...

Testing is imperative. Maybe the west coast has a prevalence of a milder strain than the east coast, that would make a lot of sense, but without MUCH more testing we won’t know.

Well, the normal Covid-19 test isn't really going to tell you anything about what particular strain of the virus a patient may be infected with. For that you'd have run a gene sequencing on it.

stevew said...

@Fernandistein: I read "Parasite Rex", fascinating and disturbing. In a sense, zombies are real.

narciso said...

'is the refrain, what is it good for, say again,


https://www.channel3000.com/dane-co-to-remain-under-state-of-emergency-until-at-least-july-15/

Roger Sweeny said...

Contagious, how? As in, just that more people will become infected? Or as in, more people will experience serious complications?

Since lots of people died in northern Italy and the NYC metropolitan area, I'm assuming it's both. But we really need something better than my assumption.

bagoh20 said...

"Agree. At best, evolving is 'last man standing"

More precisely, it's last man fucking.

narciso said...

magic eightball says yes,

https://pjmedia.com/columns/stephen-kruiser/2020/05/05/the-morning-briefing-5-n388000

TrespassersW said...

Inga said...
I was able to read the LA Times article by going into Private Mode. It looks like this mutation is a different one than the one I’ve been reading about this AM. So, not good news regarding this mutation. I prefer the mutation that I’ve been reading about in the NY Post and elsewhere to this one in the LA Times.

Don't worry! If you like your COVID mutation, you can keep your COVID mutation.

Jupiter said...

"Our treatment protocol targeting these key pathologies has achieved near uniform success, if begun within 6 hours of a COVID19 patient presenting with shortness of breath or needing ≥ 4L/min of oxygen. If such early initiation of treatment could be systematically achieved, the need for mechanical ventilators and ICU beds will decrease dramatically."

https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2020/05/how-treatable-is-covid-19.php

narciso said...


but it was working so well:

https://twitter.com/JohnEkdahl/status/1257685331228459009?s=20

I'm Full of Soup said...

Bay area Guy:
"Did you know Planet Earth has 8 Billion People, and that 57 Million will die this year?!!?

That's nearly 5 Million deaths/month!"

Can the number deaths be accurate? Only 1 out of 140 people die each year? Seems way too low?

gilbar said...

BAG askes, the $64,000 ($16 TRILLION) question:
how many "excess" deaths in the US there were from this terrible new virus, or if these geniuses are mostly just reclassifying other deaths (flu, diabetes, heart disease, etc, etc, etc) in mostly sick, elderly people.

Also, do the "Dozens Dead After Lockdown Measures Delayed Their Heart Surgeries" in narciso's twitter link, count as Covid-19 deaths? I'd ASSUME so, wouldn't you?

Shouting Thomas said...

So, basically, the Bill of Rights is permanently cancelled.

traditionalguy said...

The crack Wuhan staff can crank out a new bio-weapon faster than we ever knew. But how many bats have had to die?

Howard said...

Blogger stevew said...
Test, trace, and track is not a reasonable, achievable goal in a nation of >330 million people.


And yet Google can customize ads that it plays for you based on conversations that you're having and change them throughout the day to reflect what you were talking about.

It doesn't need to be one hundred percent either. As they say the perfect goal is the enemy of the good outcome. By filling up with conspiracy theories ends badly accepting fate like sheep. Rather, keep working the problem until you land safely or die trying.

Achilles said...

They are doing their bet to cover for China as well it seems.

Shouting Thomas said...

So, for the foreseeable future the Constitution and Bill of Rights are revoked, for your safety.

And, as expected, Howard has a good explanation for why you should be grateful for that.

stevew said...

Tracking internet activity to target online ads is the same as Test, Trace, and Tracking physical human beings? Well, there you go. I stand corrected.

Cuomo, Baker, and my rep, Moulton, all are talking about 100% coverage for TTT before we can re-open.

narciso said...

https://mobile.twitter.com/brithume/status/1257646717052297219

Nonapod said...

gilbar said...
Also, do the "Dozens Dead After Lockdown Measures Delayed Their Heart Surgeries" in narciso's twitter link, count as Covid-19 deaths? I'd ASSUME so, wouldn't you?


And not just heart surgeries, also things like cancer diagnoses. Imagine you find some lump or have some sort of other potential symptom but are too afraid to go to a hospital or are otherwise discouraged due to it not being considered an essential procedure or whatever. Suppose it is a cancer that could have been easily treated if it was diagnosed earlier, but because of the covid moratorium it ends up metastasizing and becoming much more serious, even inoperable.

hombre said...

Snively: “Talk like this is nothing more than "pop Darwinism," and goes a long way toward making "scientists" who use it look like exactly the kind of pompous, self-righteous morons the religious right tends to claim all scientists are..”

I agree, and speaking as a member of the RR, I would like some clarification. 1. Does “look like” fall within the “walks like ..., swims like ..., quacks like” category? 2. Does the term “scientist” not now include the “pompous, self-righteous morons” who claim computer models are science, not statistical projections?

The religious right did not coin the phrase “consensus of the scientific community” to further a political agenda. However, if we accept the phrase at face value ....

dreams said...

The end nigh, repent liberals.

LA_Bob said...

"No live beings left to infect, the virus doesn’t survive either."

Imagine that! Nature doing what human management cannot. Whodathunkit?

gilbar said...

Shouting Thomas asked...
So, basically, the Bill of Rights is permanently cancelled?


No ST, not Permanently; just until ALL DANGERS TO ANY PERSON ARE ELIMINATED


Seriously; you people out there that think what is going on is Justified by "Public Safety";
HOW/WHY do you still allow high speed (30mph+) motor travel?
Do You KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE DIE, EACH YEAR, IN THOSE DEATH TRAPS WE CALL AUTOMOBILES?
And Trains! and Buses! IF we are SERIOUS about SAVING LIVES we need to ban ALL transportation besides foot travel

And Smoking? And Overeating? WHY are we STILL allowing these deaths to recur?
WE NEED A SAFE WORLD, UNTIL WE GET THAT: ALL CIVIL LIBERTIES MUST TAKE A BACK SEAT!!

Night Owl said...

This bit of propaganda can serve more than one purpose. One is fear-mongering, which gets clicks; two it provides cover for those who want to prolong the shutdown indefinitely; three, to my ear it provides an opening to get China off the hook. They can try to claim their bug wasn't so bad, but the mutated European one was the bad guy.

Can you tell that at this point I don't accept anything at face value from the so-called experts? This virus was not as deadly as the experts said it would be. They were either lying or just wrong. In either case, I'd rather be free to get on with my life and take my chances with this virus than put my faith and trust into people who likely have politically-driven agendas.

We've survived the continuously mutating common colds and flus without shutting down the economy. The people who peddle "Science!" seem to want the new normal to be house-arrest and forced social-distancing until all virus is eradicated. I'm not buying it.

Big Mike said...

Looks like more junk science to me.

LA_Bob said...

Roger Sweeny said, "Since lots of people died in northern Italy and the NYC metropolitan area, I'm assuming it's both. But we really need something better than my assumption."

Human dominance and mobility are the main drivers of this pandemic. Bugs that might have remained localized in centuries past get flung around like carry-on luggage today.

But human dominance does not mean human exemption. Sad as it is, something gets us sooner or later, and we just have to get used to it. I certainly don't wish to volunteer for first in the queue to check out, nor do I wish that fate on anyone, but we risk far more damage trying to beat the Grim Reaper than by accepting his reality.

Fernandinande said...

"(minus the argument about whether viruses are alive)"
FF, its easy when you drop the main impediment, isn't it.


Should I feel badly because I identified your ignorance, and pointed out that your posts contradicted each other?

You presume a causal direction. That's pretty faulty in my view.

No I didn't. You're the one who made the ludicrous claim that viruses and such have goals.

Leland said...

Elsewhere on the internet; I'm complaining about why NASA is building a ventilator, particularly JPL, which has nothing to do with NASA's human exploration division. Now Los Alamos National Laboratory is being considered an expert in infectious diseases?

Fernandinande said...

I read "Parasite Rex", fascinating and disturbing. In a sense, zombies are real.

File under "The Wonderful Disgustingness of Nature!"

Last Friday I found out that our old dog has a parasitic nematode's egg sac in her eyeball (a small bump on the outside edge), and apparently it's been there for several years without hatching.

stevew said...

Fernandistein, dude! You have no idea how much that creeps me out! My skin will be crawling for the rest of the day.

We had house cats for many years. Odds are quite good that I contracted Toxoplasmosis as I was primarily responsible for litter box cleaning and maintenance. "SHIVERS"

n.n said...

Progress. That said, full body condom, don't forget the goggles, or 3 m physical distancing, 6 if you subscribe to the precautionary principle.

Openidname said...

"Fernandistein said...

"The funnest examples of parasites causing symptoms in the host which help the parasite spread, are the rabies virus . . . and the ophiocordyceps fungus . . . ."

Add toxoplamosis. It makes an infected rodent stop avoiding (or perhaps even seek out) cats, which gets it eaten by a cat, which infects the cat.

The parasite doesn't really "want" to infect (i.e., benefit from infecting) humans, but when it does, the same mechanism that alters the rodent's behavior may make the human get into a traffic accident. Worse, it may cause schizophrenia.

Night Owl said...

Worldwide, New York is first in Covid deaths, but 8th in population density.

Which makes me question how accurate their numbers are. Rumors of hospitals inflating death counts might have some truth to them. Especially if it's true they were incentivized by getting more money for reported Covid cases.

Fernandinande said...

Here's an article by James Damore, the guy fired by google for Thoughtcrime: "A slowly evolving host moves first in symbiotic [parasitic and mutualistic] interactions", about the relative rates of evolution I mentioned above, "when two species fight over the benefits of a mutualism, the slower evolving species can actually have an advantage."

Fun Fact! Humans accumulate 50-100 genetic mutations per generation, so your children are mutants.

Mark said...

Keeping fear and pessimism alive.

Fernandinande said...

Add toxoplamosis... may cause schizophrenia.

Yeah - "Crazy cat-lady syndrome" is a term coined by news organizations to describe scientific findings that link the parasite Toxoplasma gondii to several mental disorders and behavioral problems."

Weak effect, perhaps not causal.

Narayanan said...

if they are collecting samples to study mutations -
how can they tell if they have an already mutated sample vs sample that mutates in the preserve medium due to medium itself?

mandrewa said...

Tony Heller: How to create a worldwide depression

The same points that many above are making but with graphs and presented as a YouTube video.

PM said...

Why aren't the Greenies rallying alongside the Deplorables to re-open the nation? They believe Gaia's biggest problem is overpopulation. It's gift-wrapped. What do we want!? No masks!! When do we want it....

Meade said...

"Add toxoplamosis... may cause schizophrenia."

here

LA_Bob said...

Jupiter,

Thanks for the Powerline link. I browse Powerline off and on, and I definitely miss stuff, including that one.

Shouldn't be a big surprise. I think clinicians used to be the folks driving medical advances. They certainly get to see the evidence up close and personal.

Paul Snively said...

hombre, it may surprise you to know that by most people's standards, I'm also a member of the religious right, the Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod qualifying handily, I think.

I also write software for a living, and am a student of physics and mathematics. So I end up in a weird position, where I reject the reflexive materialistic reductionism that my religious cohort rightly calls "scientism," and often recommend to intellectually honest scientismically-inclined friends that they read agnostic Jew David Berlinski's wonderful The Devil's Delusion: Atheism and its Scientific Pretensions.

Conversely, though...

Does the term “scientist” not now include the “pompous, self-righteous morons” who claim computer models are science, not statistical projections?

There is no such thing as science without "statistical projections." Scientific reasoning is necessarily inductive, which is to say, we believe X will happen under conditions Y because it has many, many times so far. In those rare cases where we can specify X and Y really, really narrowly, we call the result a "law." But that's indeed just a convention.

That said, part of my business is constructing statistical projections that work. Think about it: we're describing the same process people complain makes shopping on Amazon creepy with how it targets ads, whether those ads are presented by Amazon or a third party. We're talking about the same process people worry about influencing political decisions, no matter what political position you're talking about. We're talking about the same process some people worry has racism and sexism baked into it, while others believe it's perfectly objective and rational—but the common element is: both sides understand it works quite well, for most purposes, most of the time.

The religious right did not coin the phrase “consensus of the scientific community” to further a political agenda. However, if we accept the phrase at face value ....

If we accept the phrase at face value, we get everything from Newton's theory of gravity to the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics to the anthropogenic global warming hypothesis. Just to be clear, as far as I'm concerned, these are three examples of scientific consensus with dramatically different levels of warrant, and for very different reasons.

buwaya said...

Deaths in Spain and Italy also fell off a cliff the last three days.

Something's up.

The Spanish death rate, at least, has excellent quality data behind it, as the daily mortality depends on the civil register database which updates near real-time.

buwaya said...

"Weak effect, perhaps not causal."
Re toxoplasmosis.
It may work backwards.
A greater tendency to own cats, and thus get infected, may be an effect of psychological problems.

Greg Hlatky said...

If the murder hornet sees his shadow on Cinco de Mayo it means six more weeks of lockdown.

Birkel said...

Maybe this will scare everybody enough!

Jim at said...

Best to just kill yourself. It's the only way to be truly safe.

Fernandinande said...

Then at least one scientist fails to understand Darwinism, which is about speciation by natural selection over long periods of time

That's only part of it; the rest is(are?) the slow changes in a species until it becomes a different species.

Talk like this is nothing more than "pop Darwinism,"

You have your own narrow definition of "Darwinian evolution".

Look it up, or up, or even just a dictionary up.

" and goes a long way toward making "scientists" who use it look like exactly the kind of pompous, self-righteous morons the religious right tends to claim all scientists are..

Basing that conclusion on your own private and incorrect definition of a well-known and often used term makes you the pompous, self-righteous moron.

Fernandinande said...

David Berlinski

I knew I'd heard of that Discovery Institute ID shyster -

"David Berlinski makes a pompous fool of himself again about science and evolution"

"David Berlinski makes an ass of himself defending intelligent design"

n.n said...

a 'classic case of Darwinian evolution.'"

An anthropomorphization of chaos? Perhaps. Or a previously undetected immigrant from Wuhan. Siblings, perhaps, more viable than the other(s).

migrated quickly to the East Coast of the United States

By train, plane, or automobile? Through human, animal, or vegetable?

Michael said...

Well they need a new “improved” virus since the current version is not killing Swedes at the hoped for rate.

n.n said...

Best to just kill yourself

Self-abort? That would be contrary to chaotic ("evolutionary") fitness. We do it all the time, abort, not self-abort.

n.n said...

So, basically, the Bill of Rights is permanently cancelled.

A forward-looking policy, it seems so. To be fair, evolutionary dysfunction complements social progress.

Paul Snively said...

Fernandistan: That's only part of it; the rest is(are?) the slow changes in a species until it becomes a different species.

Darwinism doesn't encompass the introduction of the idea of spontaneous mutations as part of the causal mechanism of evolution. The conjoined theory is referred to as "The Modern Synthesis."

Basing that conclusion on your own private and incorrect definition of a well-known and often used term makes you the pompous, self-righteous moron.

Your first link accurately describes Darwinism exactly as I did. The dictionary definition likewise. And from your second link:

Darwin didn't know anything about genetics, Pobiner said. "He observed the pattern of evolution, but he didn't really know about the mechanism." That came later, with the discovery of how genes encode different biological or behavioral traits, and how genes are passed down from parents to offspring. The incorporation of genetics and Darwin's theory is known as "modern evolutionary synthesis."

Also exactly as I said.

In any case, setting aside your reading comprehension issues, even if you had been correct, it wouldn't affect the observation that a single example of spontaneous mutation—a relatively common phenomenon among viri, which do not even qualify as animals, let alone animal species—is not "an example of Darwinian evolution," even in the Modern Synthesis sense, let alone in actual Darwinism. Your defense of it as an "often used term" betrays that you're concerned with clubbing David Berlinski rather than with science.

Known Unknown said...

"So, basically, the Bill of Rights is permanently cancelled."

Lampposts and ropes can be permanent, too.

Tomcc said...

I've concluded that we're going to be living with this virus for the foreseeable future. If you build a house on a riverbank and it gets washed away in a flood, you learn to build at a higher elevation. We need to lift the economic restrictions now (while still avoiding large crowds) and figure out how to make PPE available to folks who want to work.
By the way, can we stop making ventilators now?

Tomcc said...

OT- will the state of NY experience a steep decline in it's Medicare expense over the next year?

Robert Cook said...

"So, basically, the Bill of Rights is permanently cancelled."

It's been largely symbolic for many years now. Recommending and/or imposing certain restrictions on public activity to try to protect public health is hardly its death knell.

Known Unknown said...

"a more deadly strain"

I don't believe they have proven it's a more deadly strain. The headline/story read "more contagious."

Lewis Wetzel said...

I couldn't get past the LA Times paywall to read the article.
Couldn't do it.
So I did a google search for articles about this "new strain of covid-19."
I ran into a blank fog of articles a week or a month old describing the discovery of many different strains of covid-19. Nothing like the LA Times headline.
So what's the right word to use to describe this? Fake news doesn't seem right. Vapor news?

Lewis Wetzel said...

Blogger Robert Cook said...
"So, basically, the Bill of Rights is permanently cancelled."
It's been largely symbolic for many years now.


How many years, exactly? Was the Bill of Rights less symbolic in the 20s? the 30s? the 40s? the 50s? Do we have to go back more than a century?

Todd said...

Tomcc said...

By the way, can we stop making ventilators now?

5/5/20, 1:50 PM


Not until every citizen has one, its the newest right!

walter said...

From WI SCOTUS oral arguments today

Empower Wisconsin
@EmpowerWi
·
2h
Attorney for DHS says if people of Wisconsin aren't happy with all-powerful state agency they can go file a lawsuit. "That's how the system work." #wiright #wipolitics
Empower Wisconsin
@EmpowerWi
·
2h
"I don’t think legislature has a standing claim to raise. The Legislature is harmed in no way by idea that DHS has exceeded its statutory authority." - Attorney for DHS. The Legislature is harmed, as are the people, whose authority has been usurped. #wiright #wipolitics
Empower Wisconsin
@EmpowerWi
·
3h
"COVID-19 is a wildfire that’s spreading across the state." - attorney for DHS. Is it? Is it like a wildfire? #wiright #wipolitics

Lewis Wetzel said...


Blogger Fernandistein said...
David Berlinski
I knew I'd heard of that Discovery Institute ID shyster -
"David Berlinski makes a pompous fool of himself again about science and evolution"
"David Berlinski makes an ass of himself defending intelligent design"

Good Lord, Fernandistein, whoever is writing at that junk site seems to be running for village atheist. Kind of a low-rent Dawkins, meaning he criticizes philosophy that he has not gone through the trouble of reading, let alone understanding.
Do you seriously consider that to be an intelligent critique of Berlinski?

bagoh20 said...

"An overwhelming majority of Americans doubt official coronavirus death tolls in the U.S, a new poll shows.

Two-thirds of American adults doubt the official death tolls, according to an Axios poll published Tuesday. The poll found that 40% of Republicans believed that deaths are being overcounted, compared to 24% who believe they are being undercounted.

The results flipped dramatically when Democratic voters were surveyed, with 63% responding that death tolls were being undercounted, compared to just 7% who said they were being overcounted. The poll was included 1,012 U.S. adults, and has a margin of error of roughly 3.2%. (RELATED:"

Dumbocrats Imagine waking up every day hoping the death count is higher, and being disappointed that it's not.

bagoh20 said...

"imposing certain restrictions on public activity to try to protect public health is hardly its death knell."

We have been warned since the beginning of the republic about safety being exactly what would sacrifice our liberty. There isn't much else that ever does, although the quest for equal outcomes does a pretty good run at it too. I absolutely believe that the pursuit of safety is the most dangerous thing to liberty. It's the only thing that has the power to get most people to throw away everything. You, of all people, should appreciate that. It's the justification for endless military spending and war.

Howard said...

Lewis Wetzel: back when I was more conservative and into global conspiracy bulshit I think most people I tuned into said the loss of the Bill of Rights was a two-stage process number one establishing the income tax in I don't know 1915 1913 something like that and then step 2 taking the US off the gold standard in the early 1930s.

The consensus was that this was symbolized by the gold Fringe around old Glory which signifies the US is under martial law.

Tomcc said...

Another upbeat message from one of our local new websites:
More coronavirus deaths in Oregon expected, health officials say

Tomcc said...

=local news

Nonapod said...

In a way I'm sort of happy that people are skeptical of the official death counts one way or the other. I'm open to the notion that we could be either undercounting or overcounting deaths to one extent or another. But it seems to me that it's far more likely that overcounting is occurring rather than undercounting. After all, it's safe to assume that more resources and monies are being redirected to areas that have higher covid-19 causualties, so it's in the interests of various governments and hospitals to inflate their numbers. This doesn't mean it's absolutely happening to any great extent, but it's a possibility.

There was that report a couple weeks back that at least in NYC certain deaths that only *may* have been caused by the virus were being counted as Covid-19 deaths. I have no idea how widespread that potential overcounting was, if it extended beyond NYC or not.

narciso said...


Oh

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/05/exclusive-government-scientist-neil-ferguson-resigns-breaking/

The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...

"I thought Los Alamos had tough smart guys making nuclear bombs, not nerdy scientists striving for relevance with their microscopes."

They're up to some craaazy shit in there. What's an airliner doing in the middle of the woods?

Lewis Wetzel said...

I would like to see a racial breakdown of the overcount/undercount poll. Black people tend to believe in conspiracy theories to a greater extent than whites.

Lewis Wetzel said...

Blogger Howard said...
Lewis Wetzel: back when I was more conservative and into global conspiracy bulshit I think most people I tuned into said the loss of the Bill of Rights was a two-stage process number one establishing the income tax in I don't know 1915 1913 something like that and then step 2 taking the US off the gold standard in the early 1930s.
The consensus was that this was symbolized by the gold Fringe around old Glory which signifies the US is under martial law.
5/5/20, 2:54 PM


I've never heard this.

FullMoon said...

3h
"COVID-19 is a wildfire that’s spreading across the state." - attorney for DHS. Is it? Is it like a wildfire? #wiright #wipolitics


You guys got what, 52 new cases, after 550,000 voters? They all dead, or in ICU?

Wildfire!

Lefities hoping for the worst.

Jim at said...

The consensus was that this was symbolized by the gold Fringe around old Glory which signifies the US is under martial law.
5/5/20, 2:54 PM

I've never heard this.
--------

It was quite popular amongst extreme, right-wing militia groups. Members refused to even enter a courtroom if the flag had a gold fringe. They also refused to put zip codes on their mail, nor license plates on their vehicles. Really reached its peak in the years following Waco.

Browndog said...

Fauci, like our media, half of Congress, half of our universities, and most of corporate America, is bought and paid for by China.

It helps explain the RUSSIA hysteria.

FullMoon said...


It was quite popular amongst extreme, right-wing militia groups. Members refused to even enter a courtroom if the flag had a gold fringe. They also refused to put zip codes on their mail, nor license plates on their vehicles. Really reached its peak in the years following Waco.

They must be thrilled with cell phone tracking everywhere they go, internet and credit card use anywhere storing info.

Robert Cook said...

"Fauci, like our media, half of Congress, half of our universities, and most of corporate America, is bought and paid for by China.

"It helps explain the RUSSIA hysteria."


But what explains your CHINA hysteria?

Browndog said...

But what explains your CHINA hysteria?

My natural aversion to communism as a free American.

Lewis Wetzel said...

But what explains your CHINA hysteria?
You can't be serious.

Howard said...

Correctamundo, give Jim at a cookie.

Howard said...

AM 1080 KSCO in Santa Cruz had a whole lineup of conspiracy militia winger talk show hosts in the mid to late 90's. Top hosts included Dave Allen and Dr Stanley Monteith.

I'm like a former smoker in that regard.

Shouting Thomas said...

Did you rape any little girls today, Howard?

Shouting Thomas said...

Rumor has it that’s your kink.

Shouting Thomas said...

Tell me, Howard, have you served time in jail?

Drago said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Drago said...

More of the type of news that the Althouse lefties were laughing and laughing about just weeks ago:

"UV light robot destroys coronavirus in 2 minutes
Japan distributor Terumo eyes broader sales for hospital disinfection"


JUNICHI OSHITA, Nikkei staff writer
MAY 04, 2020 06:32 JST

https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Coronavirus/UV-light-robot-destroys-coronavirus-in-2-minutes

Robert Cook said...

"Black people tend to believe in conspiracy theories to a greater extent than whites."

For good reason!

(Assuming for rhetorical purposes the statement is true.)

Shouting Thomas said...

Black people tend to believe in conspiracies to a greater extent because their culture is so corrupted by conspiracies to extort graft.

Conning the Robert Cook’s and other white liberals into signing onto corrupt graft scheme is a huge business for black politicians.

narciso said...

meanwhile the last shamarama


https://twitter.com/Techno_Fog/status/1257801489034153987?s=20

Lewis Wetzel said...

**shrugs** I went to two majority-minority high schools (West High School & North High School in Minneapolis). You wouldn't believe the things that were told to me by Black folks. They were shocked when I expressed doubt. Things like cocaine & crack was invented by the CIA to make addicts of Black people, AIDS was engineered by the government to kill Black people, Jews conspired to keep Black people in debt, etc.
Everything I've read in social science that touches on the topic confirms what experience tells me. But there isn't much social science research on the greater tendency of Blacks to believe in wild conspiracies.
FWIW, poor whites seem to believe in crazy conspiracy theories at a similar rate as Black people.

Robert Cook said...

"How many years, exactly? Was the Bill of Rights less symbolic in the 20s? the 30s? the 40s? the 50s? Do we have to go back more than a century?"

It's probably always been more symbolic, or provisional, throughout our history than reliably observed and adhered to. It's become more apparent in the past few decades.

Drago said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Shouting Thomas said...

Robert Cook is a very tricky character.

His professed reverence for the Bill of Rights is a sham.

He’s a commie. He only plans to exploit the Bill of Rights until he can institute the ultimate tyranny.

He doesn’t even know this about himself. The Bolsheviki are always surprised by this outcome of their actions.

Drago said...

There is justification for blacks believing in conspiracies, no different than it is appropriate for conservatives to believe in conspiracies, because they have been proven true.

The russia hoax.

The secret syphilis experiments.

And so on.

What makes no sense are the moronic conspiracy theories like the October Surprise conspiracy hoax that Robert Cook bought into or the moronic Trump/russia collusion hoax that the entire dem/left/LLR-lefty base bought into.

Robert Cook said...

"My natural aversion to communism as a free American."

So why don't you share the RUSSIA hysteria?

Why do the political arrangements of nations in other parts of world create in you a hysteria about those other nations when you are safely ensconced here in the Fatherla--uh, in our homeland as a "free" American?

Robert Cook said...

"Robert Cook is a very tricky character.

"His professed reverence for the Bill of Rights is a sham.

"He’s a commie. He only plans to exploit the Bill of Rights until he can institute the ultimate tyranny.

"He doesn’t even know this about himself. The Bolsheviki are always surprised by this outcome of their actions."


So...I'm a Manchurian Candidate!! Hahahaha! Wheeee! I'm a nefarious agent of evil and I never knew it! I wonder what the trigger is that will cause me to embark on my relenteless and malevolent mission of murder, misery, and oppression? In the new world that I help bring about, they will write about me as "A Tricky Character!"

Shouting Thomas said...

No, you’re just the usual confused commie, who expects a different result than the one we know we can rely on from a historical perspective.

Fernandinande said...

your first link accurately describes Darwinism exactly as I did.

No it doesn't. You said: "Darwinism, which is about speciation by natural selection over long periods of time". Time to stop lying.

viri, which do not even qualify as animals, let alone animal species—is not "an example of Darwinian evolution,

National Institutes of Health says:
"Positive Darwinian evolution in human influenza A viruses."


Good Lord, Fernandistein, whoever is writing at that junk site seems to be running for village atheist.

Site is run by a recently retired U of Chicago professor of genetics and evolution. How about you?

Are you two silly dishonest ignorant superstitious weirdos anti-vaxxers?

Shouting Thomas said...

The part you missed, Cookie, is that you aren’t even aware of your own motivations.

You think you’re operating from great ideals. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Go back and read my original statement very carefully.

Ken B said...

Been outside without a mask, ST?

Robert Cook said...

"We have been warned since the beginning of the republic about safety being exactly what would sacrifice our liberty. There isn't much else that ever does, although the quest for equal outcomes does a pretty good run at it too. I absolutely believe that the pursuit of safety is the most dangerous thing to liberty. It's the only thing that has the power to get most people to throw away everything. You, of all people, should appreciate that. It's the justification for endless military spending and war."

I do appreciate that sacrificing our constitutional protections in the name of "safety" is perilous. However, this does not mean there are never threatening circumstances that warrant taking protective measures for the good of all while the danger is most acute. In times of actual and demonstrable peril, the behavior of risk-taking individuals can endanger the larger community. There is always tension between the rights of any individual and the rights of the community, and sometimes the rights of the community trump the rights of the individual.

The negative impact of the shutdown of our nation is significant enough--and will obviously be long-lasting to greater or lesser degree--such that, as the dimensions of the ongoing danger of COVID-19 become clearer (or change)over time, we will, of necessity, start finding ways to open up what has been shut down...cautiously, and hopefully, with deliberation, not with haste. I find the safety measures adopted to defend against COVID-19 far less alarming than the huge and always-growing budget of our war apparatus, which starves our budget of funds needed elsewhere; of our intelligence agencies, who track our every movement and communication; of the overwhelming influence of the rich over "our" government, essentially usurping the power that belongs to the people.

Robert Cook said...

"The part you missed, Cookie, is that you aren’t even aware of your own motivations."

I didn't miss it...that's what makes me a Manchurian Candidate! Did you miss that?

Of course, I am very well aware of my motivations, while you are not.

Lewis Wetzel said...

I find the safety measures adopted to defend against COVID-19 far less alarming than the huge and always-growing budget of our war apparatus, which starves our budget of funds needed elsewhere; of our intelligence agencies, who track our every movement and communication; of the overwhelming influence of the rich over "our" government, essentially usurping the power that belongs to the people.

Six weeks of covid-19 shutdowns, with the state controlling the economy, has wiped out trillions of dollars in wealth and put tens of millions on the dole. Even if covid-19 & the shutdowns ended tomorrow, it could take years to regain the economic vitality we accrued through "the huge and always-growing budget of our war apparatus, which starves our budget of funds needed elsewhere; of our intelligence agencies, who track our every movement and communication; of the overwhelming influence of the rich over "our" government, essentially usurping the power that belongs to the people."

Lewis Wetzel said...

Good Lord, Fernandistein, whoever is writing at that junk site seems to be running for village atheist.

Site is run by a recently retired U of Chicago professor of genetics and evolution. How about you?


So he can't be running for village atheist?

"After his PhD, Berlinski was a research assistant in the Department of Biology at Columbia University for less than one year.[3] He has taught philosophy, mathematics and English at Stanford University, Rutgers, the City University of New York and the UniversitĆ© de Paris. He was a research fellow at the International Institute for Applied Systems Analysis (IIASA) in Austria and the Institut des Hautes Ɖtudes Scientifiques (IHES) in France."

You are doing a shitty job of arguing from authority, fernandistein.

Shouting Thomas said...

Cookie, I’m something of a student of the Russian revolution.

Degree from the University of Illinois in Russian literature, language and literature. Lifelong student of Bolshevism.
Still involved to this day. I’m an accompanist for a Slavic choral group.

Your delusions come right out of 19th century Russian pre-revolutionary literature.

You’re so in the dark about your own motivations and the ultimate outcome of those motivations that you might as well be brain dead.

The little interior drama you’re playing out has been played out millions of times with the same evil result.

Robert Cook said...

"Even if covid-19 & the shutdowns ended tomorrow, it could take years to regain the economic vitality we accrued through 'the huge and always-growing budget of our war apparatus, which starves our budget of funds needed elsewhere; of our intelligence agencies, who track our every movement and communication; of the overwhelming influence of the rich over "our" government, essentially usurping the power that belongs to the people.'"

You think our economic vitality was a product of the parasitic war machine, our intrusive intelligence agencies, and the ownership of our government by the wealthy? Hoo-boy!

That lunacy aside, I am aware of and alarmed by the economic devastation wrought by the shutdown of our society. However, chemotherapy can be devastating to a cancer patient, yet still be his or her only hope of surviving the cancer. Sometimes a painful defense is necessary to protect against a more painful consequence if no defense is presented. The shutdown has been imposed with good intentions to mitigate mass deaths among the population to whatever degree possible. In retrospect, it may (or may not) come be deemed as having been misguided overkill. Given the numbers of deaths with the shutdown, one wonders how much worse it might have been if business, as it were, had continued as usual.

My stated lack of alarm is directed at the idea that the whole COVID-19 threat is a "hoax" perpetrated purposely by those who want to steal our freedoms, or that asking (or requiring) people to wear masks while in public or when entering private business establishments that are still open is an abrogation of our rights, a sign of the "tyranny" the plotters intend to impose. That, to me, is hysterics.

Robert Cook said...

Shouting Tom, I think you are a delusional crank. That was my first impression of you upon reading your often ranting comments, and it is the impression I still hold.

No insult intended, I'm not bothered by you, but it is my impression based on your online persona and comments.

Shouting Thomas said...

It’s my impression, Cookie, that you’re the usual commie thug with delusions about your own motivations.

Met a lot of them in NYC, SF and Woodstock.

Pretty standard varietal.

Openidname said...

"Tomcc said...

"More coronavirus deaths in Oregon expected, health officials say."

Well, duh. And I hear the sun will rise tomorrow, too.