April 2, 2020

You're running on a 10-foot wide path, ahead of you are 3 men, walking 3 abreast, and spread out so that there's no way to pass them with 6 feet of separation.

What do you do?

This is harder than the usual problem I've encountered on my run during the coronavirus rules of separation. I've had 2 people walking toward me and taking up half the path, and I've dealt with it by running off the path, even when it meant that I had to go onto rugged, leaf-covered, sloping terrain. I'd believed that I was sending them the message that they ought to have gone into single file and moved all the way over, and I was protecting myself (and them) whether my message was understood or not.

But I'd also thought that there's something a little passive and cold about just demonstrating that they're not doing it right, so the 3 men walking 3 abreast — at a spot where brush prevented running off the trail — gave me the push I needed to actually speak to people. I do say "Good morning" or "Hello" to people I pass. It's not as though I'm afraid or too snooty to speak to strangers, but I don't like to tell people they are doing something wrong.

So I said what we say when we're biking and I'm on my bike that doesn't have a bell: "Passing on your left." The 3 men turned around and looked a little confused. I said, "Could you go single file and get all the way over?" And: "Thanks."

Ah! That worked, and I was glad to have made a breakthrough. Talking to people. Being friendly, but saying what is needed. Being straightforward. I'm trying to help.

And then there, up ahead, there's a man and a woman — maybe about 25  years old — walking toward me with the man along their right side and the woman walking right down the middle of the path, leaving me maybe 4 feet, so that I could not pass with a 6-foot separation. Before I got to them, I stepped off the path into the leaves to get my distance, but as they passed, I decided to speak to them.

I say (calmly): "You know, it would help if you went single file to pass and got all the way over."

Turning back, the woman corrects me: "You have plenty of room."

I say: "You don't know what I'm talking about?"

And the man, with a completely supercilious look on his face and his hands at eye level and wiggling his fingers in a brushing-me-back gesture, says: "Move along."

My spoken words were — and this is verbatim — "Wow. Oh, man. Okay." My unspoken words will remain unwritten.

282 comments:

1 – 200 of 282   Newer›   Newest»
DavidUW said...

Liberal cities are full of such assholes.

MadisonMan said...

Start coughing.

MayBee said...

"You don't know what I'm talking about" isn't very helpful.

Kevin said...

God made man, Sam Colt made men move over to keep a six-foot distance between them.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

I would have stared them in the eyes.....coughed loudly and several times in their general direction and told them their father smelled of elderberries.

J said...

And since you run alone and are a law abiding individual consider alternatives in case someone's response is not just "move along."

rhhardin said...

Just breathe in and hold your breath while in the downwind area. The distance doesn't matter if you're passing.

More important is noticing the wind, and judging when you're crossing their wake. That's full of virus at practically any distance.

The distance specification judges only how long the stuff stays airborne and dispersion with zero wind. If there's a wind, you're right next to them no matter how far away you are, when you're downwind.

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...

Find a 6' stick, and poke em!

RMc said...

This is why the wife and I are staying indoors for the rest of April. (We're about 50 miles from NYC.)

Tom T. said...

That's absurdly rude on their part, but the real sticklers about social distancing would argue that the risk of encounters like these is why you shouldn't go out running.

Ann Althouse said...

I have heard of the coughing technique and I reject it. I think it contributes to the decline of civilization. I would never do that. It's scaring people. It's like saying "there's a bomb" because you want a place to clear out.

Jaq said...

It’s best not to expect too much of your fellow man.

rhhardin said...

If it's easier, estimate when you would smell them (if you could smell), and breathe out during that time.

Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...

First world problems for the staycation set.

Browndog said...

MayBee said...

"You don't know what I'm talking about" isn't very helpful.


Agreed. Teachable moment fizzled.

My biggest issue is the lack of respect for your elders.

Ann Althouse said...

Also scaring people could endanger me. You don't know what's up with strangers. You want to maintain a friendly atmosphere. That's self-protective as well as supportive of civil society.

Inga said...

Time for a mask?

rhhardin said...

Or always pass upwind of them. Let them breathe in your wake instead.

stlcdr said...

This 6 ft distance thing is getting ridiculous. Is there a cloud of virus surrounding people?

Fernandinande said...

I'm trying to help.

You were jogging to the hospital to do some volunteer work?

Or perhaps jogging to a senior center to check if they needed help delivering meals and excitement to bored people on staycations?

JPS said...

I would have handled the first group exactly as you did. Glad they were civilized about it.

As for the next couple - realistically I would probably have been too annoyed to have anything clever to say. This situational aphasia has probably saved me from avoidable fights in the past.

But like others here, I might have wished to say, like Dustin Hoffman in Outbreak, “Shall I cough on you?”

Ann Althouse said...

What really got me was the guy being an asshole to support his woman, who was being a bitch to another woman.

I wonder what they said to each other later. So many possibilities!

Menahem Globus said...

A phlegmy sounding fake cough worked wonders for me when we still had tourists on the beach down here.

stevew said...

More or less an "Ok Boomer" response.

Strange times, people are divided between those that think this is a life and death crisis and those that think it is a panicked over-reaction. Not sure how you resolve that other than the way you tried today, and moving so that you achieve the 6 ft distancing. Rude of them not to be aware and respectful of the distancing.

rhhardin said...

On the other hand, it's reducing the number of encounters in daily life that does the work. Single exposures aren't a great danger. If normal life encounters a hundred people, you cut your risk down to 1/100 of the former risk by meeting only one.

Jaq said...

This is why I have a treadmill.

Meade said...

Hell is other supercilious looking people.

Ken B said...

The apt unspoken word is “covidiot”.

Ann Althouse said...

"Agreed. Teachable moment fizzled."

At that point, they'd already walked by. If they'd stopped to talk, I would have said something else. The woman was clearly blowing me off and had been snippy. There was no readiness for an exchange of information. And what I said was basically a criticism, a polite way to say: You're either an idiot or an asshole.

EAB said...

All I can say is thank goodness there’s little traffic in NYC. The zig zag into the street or bus lane is possible. The ubiquitous scaffolding is the main challenge. We consider it either or a one-lane bridge or avoid completely, if possible. Most people move to maintain distance, but there are those couples walking together right down the middle of the sidewalk. I find myself acting as if we are all going through an invisible doorway and will stop or step aside as necessary. I don’t consider it a huge health risk, but it just so selfish to not be aware. Make others feel secure...stop being so thoughtless over something so silly. Be kind. Step aside.

MayBee said...

As you advance upon the couple, say "I'm very concerned about the 6 foot rule. Do you mind walking single file as I pass"

gilbar said...

MayBee said...
"You don't know what I'm talking about" isn't very helpful.


The real question is: Was it better than Nothing?
Answer: Hell to the NO!

stevew said...

I always know just what to say, too late.

Fernandinande said...

Find a 6' stick, and poke em!

Spinning belt of knives. Warning: the guy comes across as Australian.

Limited blogger said...

You did all you could, Ann. Hope for better encounters going forward.

MayBee said...

And what I said was basically a criticism, a polite way to say: You're either an idiot or an asshole.

Maybe they don't know what you're talking about. The 6 foot rule is basically so they can't cough on you. Maybe they think 4 feet in the fresh outdoors is enough. You had a concern and a chance to express it.

rcocean said...

"What really got me was the guy being an asshole to support his woman, who was being a bitch to another woman." of course he's going to support his woman! Can imagine what would happen to him, if he didn't?

Seriously, I sincerely doubt you need 6 feet if you're racing past someone either on foot or on a bike. The chances of the virus jumping 3 feet during 1 second you are that close seems very small.

Birches said...

I cross the street when I see someone coming. Or get in the road. Sometimes the coming up cross before I do.

I guess we're social distancing a lot better in suburban Georgia.

MayBee said...

Or stop and turn your back to them as they pass, if you are worried about yourself.

Bob Boyd said...

What really got me was the guy being an asshole to support his woman, who was being a bitch to another woman.

The guy had just finally almost had his gal convinced they could chance a blow job when you came along.

rcocean said...

Even before the virus, path hogs are a problem. Normally, i just barrel through them, leaving the dead and wounded behind me.

Jaq said...

"All I can say is thank goodness there’s little traffic in NYC”

My friend texted me a picture from the George Washington Bridge. There were maybe five cars. Usually you have five cars within a yard of your car, at least there.

donald said...

Bring Meade and a golf club tomorrow.

Oso Negro said...

In ordinary times, there are many people who reject social enforcement. In extraordinary times, an increase in lawlessness and decrease in social manners among a subset of the population may be expected. If I were a 60-something retired lady law professor, I wouldn't go about attempting to force my social norms, no matter how reasonable, on strangers just now. Let's be careful out there, Althouse! Civilization is thin veneer over a savage nature.

bagoh20 said...

Pedestrian road rage, just what we need.

Inga said...

The less spoken, the less chance of exhaling virus on others. I think the most polite thing for everyone to do is wear a mask during a pandemic. We Americans are resistant to masks, but I do think in order to do what we want outdoors in a city with other humans nearby, we are going to have to come to term with wearing a mask of some sort.

D.D. Driver said...

It seems like "Excuse me, I'm trying to keep my six feet distance" would have done the trick, but...there would be one less blog post.

Maintaining a strict six foot distance outdoors is a bit like taking off your shoes at the airport. It is a ritual that helps make us feel safer, but I highly--highly--doubt we are actually moving the needle in a meaningful way.

Browndog said...

I wonder what they said to each other later. So many possibilities!

I'm thinking at some point one of them said to the other "What was she talking about?"

....seeds of thought.

Fernandinande said...

You did all you could, Ann.

Staying home and not doing anything at all is more helpful to other people than jogging anywhere near them.

rhhardin said...

Run with eight horses. XKCD points out that you can fit 8 horses in your six foot circle.
https://xkcd.com/2286/

Birches said...

And for those who doubt about the virus making it six feet, have you paid attention to how much people breathe out when they run?

Think about that choir group in Washington.

Otto said...

Musings from a progressive elite. Notice how smart she is and the rest of the world are dummies. Or is it projection?

Shouting Thomas said...

My guess is that you are many many times more likely to be infected by a family member than by a stranger.

For instance, my son-in-law is an essential infrastructure worker. His job forces him to venture into the hot zone of NYC.

I am in contact with him every day.

I’ve been doing some reading on the great plague of the 14th century. It appears to me that infection by family member was the most common vector.

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...

Inga- early on, the hack press were lecturing us that we shouldn't wear masks.

Now we should. I agree we should! Try finding a mask ... anywhere.

gilbar said...

i miss the olden days, when our beloved Professor Althouse wasn't so Obviously Insane

tim maguire said...

stlcdr said...This 6 ft distance thing is getting ridiculous. Is there a cloud of virus surrounding people?

Yes, that is exactly what there is. That's the whole point of social distancing.

I do my jogging between 5 and 6 AM, so I pass very few people. I run on the sidewalk (city living) and when I come up on one of those few people, I get into the street. They'd probably be happy to get out of my way, but it's just easier if I do it--I'm the one coming up fast.

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...

*When I say mask, ans actual medical grade mask.

Todd said...

So I said what we say when we're biking and I'm on my bike that doesn't have a bell: "Passing on your left." The 3 men turned around and looked a little confused.

Wait, so she was coming up behind them? What the h@ll? They didn't have eyes in the back of their heads? They could all have worn those bike reflective mirrors on sweat bands so that they can constantly see behind themselves! Those guys are just lucky she didn't have a gun cause she SHOULD have just shot them, it would have been self defence!

Talk about your "SUPER First World + imaginary sexism [while people are actually dying of a pandemic]" problems! Poor little firefighter!

Browndog said...

Somewhere on social media there's a post that says "Me and my boyfriend were on a walk and some bitchy woman wanted the trail all to herself!"

Jaq said...

Maybe you are in denial that this is a serious problem for the country and you are going to have to make sacrifices. Think of the Irish guy in the prison cell in the Charlie’s Angels movie, “They’re always after me lucky charms.” Look how he kept in shape.

I am kind of of two minds, which is less than usual, BTW. On the one hand, I feel like you should apologize for your “staycation” comment as incredibly insensitive. I am treating it like that, but I can. On the other hand, maybe people reading the daily bloggings of a retired person should wonder about why they are trying to force you to be some kind of public utility and represent everybody’s interests and change your take on things to take everybody else’s feelings about stuff into account. Maybe your response to them should be “If nominated, will not run, if elected, will not serve."

robother said...

The 6 feet thing doesn't really work on trails, esp. here in Boulder, where steep and rocky parts really don't allow for the passage in quite a few places. Add to that the word from medical experts I've been reading in the last 2 days that say it may need to be 25 feet, and that infected runners and joggers may be putting out more aerosol virus further. I'm thinking in-town walks may be safer.

Ralph L said...

Carry a big umbrella as a shield/weapon and dress like a bag lady. They'll move away from you. No need to roll in dog poo.

stevew said...

In my experience assholes and the selfish are immune to the politely delivered "excuse me". Those that think this is a self-induced panic are too.

CStanley said...


Blogger stlcdr said...
This 6 ft distance thing is getting ridiculous. Is there a cloud of virus surrounding people?


Potentially, yes, since people can be asymptomatic carriers.

We’re encountering this problem at our local park, too many people and the path is only about 4 ft wide. I walk off to the side of the path to pass people but occasionally it’s not possible. The bike trails recently adopted a one-way traffic rule on all the paths and I wish we would do this at our walking trail park. Most people are walking and could pace so that passing isn’t necessary (though joggers would still need to go around.) As it is people are constantly coming face to face as they approach each other. I’m planning to try other trails or just stay in the neighborhood.

Birches said “....suburban Georgia” Hello from Woodstock!

Inga said...

“Inga- early on, the hack press were lecturing us that we shouldn't wear masks.

Now we should. I agree we should! Try finding a mask ... anywhere.”

The CDC was advising against wearing a mask because they didn’t want people buying up all the masks that should rightfully got o healthcare workers to safely do their jobs. I’ve always been in favor of wearing a mask when around people when out in public. I’ve sewn 300 already, I donate to area nursing homes, Children’s hospital in Milwaukee and to friends and family. It’s time for Americans to embrace masking for public health, sad but it’s reality.

Captain BillieBob said...

When I encounter a large group approaching and it appears they will not move over I find a safe spot to step off the trail and let them pass.

Jaq said...

"We Americans are resistant to masks,”

We are all Antifa now.

Howard said...

If you're talking to people it's like you're coughing in terms of transmitting aerosolized bodily fluids particles. Apparently H sounds and words are the worst offenders.

I hold my breath even with a 6-foot distance. I'll run off trail I don't want to talk to these people I don't want to educate idiots that are too stupid to realize that they are being douchebags.

the only thing that matters is preventing yourself from being exposed everything else is superfluous.

Dave Begley said...

You should have said, "Go fuck yourselves you arrogant assholes."

Hell, you're 68. What are they going to do? Beat you up? Call the cops? Be offended? Or maybe realize you were right.

mockturtle said...

Fernandistein observes: Staying home and not doing anything at all is more helpful to other people than jogging anywhere near them.

This.

Shouting Thomas said...

So, if gay men are so wonderful and hip and just want to be gay married, how is it that they started the AIDS epidemic with group anal sex orgies in the bathhouses in SF, LA and NYC?

And fought like hell to keep those bathhouses open even after we knew AIDS originated there?

I guess it was all Reagan’s fault? Or the homophobes?

Jaq said...

“If nominated will not run, if elected will not serve.”

I kind of wish that’s what Bob Dylan had said about the Nobel Prize.

Triangle Man said...

A unit of measure 6 feet or 2 meters (SI units) in length is officially recognized by the NIST as a "fuck" or "the fuck." Therefore, you can politely ask young couples to "move the fuck over" or "get the fuck away from me."

Ralph L said...

A MAGA hat might do the trick in Madison.

AMDG said...

These are the same people that enter a highway, go into the passing lane and drive the speed of the person next to them or wait in line at a fast food restaurant and not even think about their order until it is their turn. They are oblivious to the world around them.

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...

Inga - 300 masks? Well that's cool and commendable.
Do they have that little light-weight metal piece at the top that molds to the nose and cheeks?
My friend who sews made me a mask. The thing is amazing. 4 layers thick - but no metal thingy at the top.

Carter Wood said...

Half Man Half Biscuit has the theme song for this post...

L’Enfer C’Est Les Autres
Some people don’t know how to walk on the pavement these days
Well it’s not that difficult, there’s hardly a whole host of ways
Here they come, love’s young dream, arm in arm, approaching me
Now, I’m not looking for your smile
I’m just asking for some single file
But it’s not forthcoming so I have to assume
That this narrow path belongs to you
And therefore you must be
The Duke of Westminster and his good lady wife
So, I tell you what, I’ll just walk in the road
How about I just walk in the road?
You stay as you are, and I’ll just walk in the road

Inga said...

The rude people were probably more in danger from exhaled breaths from Althouse jogging than they were to her as walkers. Who breaths more strenuously, the walker or the jogger?

MayBee said...

Wearing a mask while running is really challenging! It's challenging enough just walking around! It's why people in Asian countries do it when they are sick, and they have to go out.

Ken B said...

“ This 6 ft distance thing is getting ridiculous. Is there a cloud of virus surrounding people?”

Covidiot.

MayBee said...

The thing about masks is this: You have to handle them correctly, because if they go the germs on them you were trying to keep off your face, then you now have something with germs on it that you are about to touch. You can't leave it laying around, you can't play with it to move it out of your way to talk, you can't keep adjusting it. You can't bring it in and then set it down for the next time you go out.

Linda said...

I have run for over 30 years almost exclusively on the roads - but added trail running a few years ago and love it. I have wanted to get back out on the trails this spring, especially since I just finished 5 months of chemo (last chemo was mid January) but have not done so because of the whole distancing issue and (truth be told) because of the soggy conditions. Yesterday when I went out for a run, I was thinking about heading into a nature preserve area near my home in the Cherokee neighborhood on the north side of Madison figuring that the grounds have had a chance to dry out, but saw some people on part of the trail and several cars in the parking lot, so I decided against it and just stayed on the street. It is much easier to pass people and give everyone 6 ft when you are on the road.

I agree with using the typical bike terminology “excuse me, passing on your left” when you are coming up behind someone is pretty easy - I actually only use that on trail running, since on the road/side walk it is almost always easy to circumvent those ahead of you. But when you are coming towards people it seems pretty obvious that each of you simply give each other space, since you can clearly see each other. But it appears that these two were raised to be “special” and don’t seem to care about others! During your next encounter with someone coming at you and not moving, It might be a good time to try a short fartlet and sprint by them - lessening the time spent in their radius - just make sure to take a deep breath before you get to them!

Eleanor said...

There's a YouTube video made by an ER doc in NYC who spends his entire day admitting Coronavirus cases to the hospital. He gives clarity to when you can and can't catch the virus. You're more likely to be killed coming and going from your run than by casual contact like passing someone closer than 6ft on a trail unless you open your mouth and let them sneeze into it. Maybe if you're this anxious about getting the virus, it's time to stay home until it passes. It's not fair to subject the rest of the world to unnecessary paranoia.

Ann Althouse said...

"I cross the street when I see someone coming. Or get in the road. Sometimes the coming up cross before I do."

I do too.

Not an option on a path in the woods.

AllenS said...

Have you thought about staying home? Walking around the block you live on?

I believe that they call it "sheltering in place."

Birches said...

@CStanley

Hello from Kennesaw. I wish our parks were still open. Cobb County has closed all the parking lots for the parks near us.

AllenS said...

We all have to sacrifice, Althouse.

ConradBibby said...

I wonder how many apparently asymptomatic people who are out walking around in small groups are actually contagious with coronavirus. Wisconsin is not exactly a hotspot to begin with, so we're probably talking about a tiny fraction of the population who are infected. And of the people who do have it, presumably most of them are exhibiting symptoms, in treatment, or at least self-quarantining rather than going out with others to engage in a recreational activity. I can't imagine that momentarily passing within six feet of those folks enhanced your risk of getting the disease any more than deviating from the path would have enhanced your risk of having a heart attack, spraining your ankle, or getting into a violent confrontation with them.

Ann Althouse said...

"Time for a mask?"

It will never be time for a mask for a run on a woodland path. If I thought I needed a mask for that, I wouldn't do it at all. Who *runs* with a medical mask on?

Jake said...

Run past and not worry.

tcrosse said...

In our retirement community the oldsters avoid one another like the Plague.

Inga said...

“Inga - 300 masks? Well that's cool and commendable.
Do they have that little light-weight metal piece at the top that molds to the nose and cheeks?
My friend who sews made me a mask. The thing is amazing. 4 layers thick - but no metal thingy at the top.”

Yes they do. I’m experimenting with different things to use as the nose clip. Yesterday someone suggested bread bag twist ties in a little pocket/channel that can be removed when laundering. I’ve been using coated paper clips sewn inside the nose area inside the layers of the mask, but I like the idea of being able to remove the nose clip for laundering so I made a few yesterday with a little pocket/ channel. I took a few days off of sewing because I’m getting a backache from being bent over the sewing machine. Plus I’m running out of supplies, which I’m going to have to replenish.

Inga said...

“Time for a mask?"

“It will never be time for a mask for a run on a woodland path. If I thought I needed a mask for that, I wouldn't do it at all. Who *runs* with a medical mask on?”

You don’t need a medical mask for outdoors. Who wears a mask? Polite people?

Ann Althouse said...

People with hidden profiles should be respectful. If someone wants to come in here and insult me and I can't get to a profile, I will delete. That's not a fair discussion.

I am wary of alternate personas for people who are always deleted. You look like one if you have a hidden profile or a recently created profile.

If you want to use this forum, you need to show good faith.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

I have heard of the coughing technique and I reject it.

Me too actually. I thought the elderberry reference would indicate that I was joking. Maybe one of these? 😉

You do have to be careful anymore in what you say because people are on edge more than ever.

h said...

My experiences walking my dog along a trail used by joggers and bikers has been great, without exception. I've seen people (including me) slow down, or speed up in order to pass at a wide place in the path. I've taken a slightly different route than I planned to avoid meeting someone in the other direction. On suburban streets I've seen people cross to the other side of the street. It helps (perhaps it is essential to the friendly cooperation) that the streets and bike paths are so close to empty.

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...

It is increasingly difficult to stay away from people on the outside, because everyone is off work and trying to find something to do.
You know - 'another fucking stroll.' This is already an issue here were I live. It's tricky to find a place to walk or even ride a bike that isn't congested. The congestion moved from road/car, to foot path. Normal bike/walking routes and popular trails are packed. it's ridiculous. and a lot of people are not getting the social distancing rule outside.

There are all sorts of ways to figure it out, but it depends on where you live.

The other day some guy was fast approaching me on the sidewalk. Like he wanted to ask me a question. I held my hand up and said "social distancing!" he looked at me like he was offended. Like I was so rude. Then - (and mind you, I had NO plan to say this, but I said "I was in the mountains".
LOL -that's all it took for him to walk swiftly in the opposite direction.

Dust Bunny Queen said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Lucien said...

“On your left” if approaching from behind, “track” if approaching from the front. It’s rude for the slower moving not to yield. (It would also be rude if one were to demand a 6’ bubble while out for a run).

Howard said...

Maybee is making some very good points about masks. As a hazmat cleanup health and safety supervisor I have the Good Fortune of wearing mostly respirators but also the 95 dust mask in what we call exclusion zones.

breathing is more difficult through a mask obviously physics. The important thing to remember about that is when you have to breathe hard it creates extra suction. Then increases the likelihood of short-circuiting the filter portion of the mask.
Therefore if you are running with a mask on there is a good chance that your barrier is compromised.

You need to test it out for yourself in the safety of your home, but in my experience you are better off mouth breathing rather than nose breathing to ensure that you are inhaling filtered air and not bypass air.

The second really good point is in regard to transference and cross-contamination. Once you're done using your mask you should assume that it is a source of the virus and treat it as such. I believe my wife indicated to me that our washing machine has a steam mode and so our masks will be washed in between warings. I understand you people probably do not have a stockpile of hundreds of prostrate exam gloves like I do. Even still I recycle the gloves by constantly washing my hands and soap and water when I'm using them and then storing them for several days before reusing a particular set.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Inga I’m experimenting with different things to use as the nose clip. Yesterday someone suggested bread bag twist ties in a little pocket/channel that can be removed when laundering

If you can get them, try some of those twisty ties that are used to bundle up electronic cords. They are much more sturdy, flexible and would likely stand up to being washed and dried. Perhaps fold the ends of the tie inward several times to make a less "pointy" end that could pierce your fabric.

Dust Bunny Queen said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Freeman Hunt said...

Jerks. The finger move is the most surprising part. Is he looking to start a fight club?

320Busdriver said...

I just do interval sprints on the road in front of my house. It has a pretty nice and even incline. 35 seconds up and maybe 1.5 minutes to walk briskly back down to start again. No other person is anywhere near me when I do this and I can burn 500 calories in 1/2 an hour. Steady state jogging doesn’t do shit for you and makes you want to kill others in your path.

Ann Althouse said...

"You should have said, "Go fuck yourselves you arrogant assholes." Hell, you're 68. What are they going to do? Beat you up? Call the cops? Be offended? Or maybe realize you were right."

"Go fuck yourselves you arrogant assholes" is what "Wow. Oh, man. Okay" essentially means. I'm 69, not 68, and I'm not about to get into any sort of argument with a stranger, however I feel. I am very self-protective. But today, I was putting myself out and using words for the first time. It was an experiment in straightforwardness. I felt good about my low-level courage after talking to the 3 men. My bubble was burst in my encounter with the Bitch + Asshole. I will almost certainly revert to my silent method (other than to say something like the "passing on your left" if I need to get by when there are people *walking* when I'm trying to run and they are not leaving me any room at all.

WK said...

When I read the title to this post I was expecting it was related to a “Dungeons and Dragons” game.....

M Jordan said...

Hate to say it, Ann, but you sound like a real ... I won’t say it. But don’t you think you’re taking this a little too extreme? You’re outdoors, for God’s sake. Unless they sneeze directly on you at the exact right moment you have nothing to worry about. Nada. Zip. Nothing.

Ken B said...

Althouse is right about the coughing “technique “.

If the pathway is too busy to allowed shared safe use, avoid it. But that is not the situation Althouse describes. She encountered people unwilling to share the path safely.

Howard said...

Fortunately for me the only running I do is sprinting. I do this on the local high school football field. I also do warm-up and cool-down jog laps around the track it's very easy to maintain a 25-foot separation from everybody.

on ask Matt sites we call the area that you have to be fully suited up in the exclusion zone. Sometimes a very complicated site has several exclusion zones with different PPE requirements.

I cannot emphasize this enough. we are now in and will be experiencing for at least the next two weeks where you will be wise to treat every place outside of your home as an exclusion zone. do it not for yourself but for your fellow man because the life you save by not transmitting it maybe your neighbor or your cousin or your son or daughter. that doesn't mean that we won't all get it but if we all get it at the same time that would be very ugly.

Howard said...

Look away from people eg strangers you are not currently exchanging bodily fluids with when you talk to them in public

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...

You know why there's a run on TP? when one person coughs, 10 people crap their pants.

(old joke - booo)

Original Mike said...

" It was an experiment in straightforwardness."

n = 2.

Ann Althouse said...

"It is increasingly difficult to stay away from people on the outside, because everyone is off work and trying to find something to do.
You know - 'another fucking stroll.' This is already an issue here were I live. It's tricky to find a place to walk or even ride a bike that isn't congested. The congestion moved from road/car, to foot path. Normal bike/walking routes and popular trails are packed. it's ridiculous. and a lot of people are not getting the social distancing rule outside."

People might be thinking: Anyone out getting vigorous exercise doesn't have symptoms and is not giving off virus. Or, less sensibly: If I'm athletic, I'm not in danger.

On the other hand, it's good for people to keep up their health and to get stronger, and this outdoor stuff is good for the body and the mind. We do need to worry about physical and mental decline -- our own and that of other people -- if they hole up indoors all the time.

Ken B said...

“ What are they going to do? Beat you up? ”

A man on TV recently got belligerent, got in people's faces close up, saying things like “Look, Fat” and challenging them to do push ups. You can never be sure how some people react to even mild criticism or simple questions.

Inga said...

“The thing about masks is this: You have to handle them correctly, because if they go the germs on them you were trying to keep off your face, then you now have something with germs on it that you are about to touch. You can't leave it laying around, you can't play with it to move it out of your way to talk, you can't keep adjusting it. You can't bring it in and then set it down for the next time you go out.”

True, you do have to handle them correctly. You don’t move it out of your way to talk, it’s completely possible to talk with a mask on. How do you think healthcare workers communicate? And yes, you don’t play with it or just throw it somewhere when you get home. You put in in a receptacle to be laundered in hot soapy bleachy water.

CStanley said...


Hello from Kennesaw. I wish our parks were still open. Cobb County has closed all the parking lots for the parks near us.

Yeah I’m afraid that may be coming here too, especially if people don’t voluntarily adjust behaviors.

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...

You could say 'I have covid"

See what happens.


Sebastian said...

"there's a man and a woman — maybe about 25 years old — walking toward me with the man along their right side and the woman walking right down the middle of the path"

I don't mean to be rude, but my favored approach is rigorous quarantines for the risk groups. I'm afraid that includes seniors like Althouse. Old people being out and about close to others endangers personal and public health.

I would leave the path and all public spaces to healthy people under 60; it's much safer that way, and a nice thank-you gesture by the risk groups for whose sake the youngsters sacrifice.

rhhardin said...

Six feet really really doesn't apply outdoors. Wind takes over. There are huge safe zones and small danger zones downwind of the other guy, say a stream a body-width wide reaching out 50 feet.

Original Mike said...

"You can't bring [mask] in and then set it down for the next time you go out."

I've been thinking about this because we have a limited supply. How long does the virus survive on the mask? If we hang it in the garage for 3 days, has any virus decayed?

M Jordan said...

Looks like Ann removed my comment because I didn’t take her side. I’m surprised by that. Hope I’m wrong. Shows weakness, if so.

Ken B said...

If I were you though I wouldn’t run past people. That does inject an element of risk, and even of “me first”, that is unnecessary and unhelpful. Slow down, walk around, resume jogging. Don’t assume everyone has good hearing, and will move predictably.

M Jordan said...

Good, I was wrong. Thanks, Ann.

Yancey Ward said...

Take out a phone, video them walking together, send it to the police. Isn't that today's zeitgeist?

ga6 said...

Bear spray and hand held air powered horn right in the face, continue on your way. Then pull out your phone and report that you were threatened on the public way. The resulting administrative fallout will give you something to do while crouching in place.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

BB&H said It is increasingly difficult to stay away from people on the outside, because everyone is off work and trying to find something to do.

It would be difficult in the cities and urban areas. Very difficult. I feel sorry for my daughter and family. They DO have a nice fenced in suburban back yard for the children to play and burn off some energy and there are some open air parks nearby. But going to those without encountering a crowd of other people is increasingly difficult. They can't/won't go to the regular parks that they used to frequent with slides and playground equipment.

You are right...It depends on where you are. I'm lucky in that we have lots and lots of outdoor space on our own property. Miles and miles of uninhabited wilderness and wilderness trails. Taking a walk on some various trails or alongside some of the country roads, alongside a lake or stream ...you are extremely unlikely to encounter another person.

tcrosse said...

Inga I’m experimenting with different things to use as the nose clip. Yesterday someone suggested bread bag twist ties in a little pocket/channel that can be removed when laundering

Cheap paper dust masks have an aluminum strip across the bridge of the nose for that very purpose. Maybe they could be re-purposed (if you can find some).

tcrosse said...

Inga I’m experimenting with different things to use as the nose clip. Yesterday someone suggested bread bag twist ties in a little pocket/channel that can be removed when laundering

Cheap paper dust masks have an aluminum strip across the bridge of the nose for that very purpose. Maybe they could be re-purposed (if you can find some).

Howard said...

In order to work on hazmat sites you have to go through OSHA hazwoper 40-hour training and then have an 8 hour refresher course every year.

Maybe it would be a good idea to train the general population on the methods used by professionals to keep themselves from getting exposed to nasty s***.

Once the worst has passed, that might be one of the necessary adjustments we need to make to re-energize the economy.

By all means stay active and athletic do everything you can to prevent exposure. We are all in this together we are all soldiers sailors Marines in this battle on the front lines do your bit do not get the bug and do not give the bug that is your f****** primary objective

rhhardin said...

Suppose they calcuated six feet from the speed droplets fall, say (off the wall) 30 seconds to reach the floor, and spreading at 1/5 foot per second, in a room.

In a (typical) 10 f/s wind outdoors, it not only doesn't fall as fast but it travels 300 feet in that time.

So there's nothing around the guy except a stream 300 feet long downwind of him.

6 feet has nothing to do with it.

So just pass upwind of the guy, or breathe out when you're downwind of him.

Laslo Spatula said...

"The rude people were probably more in danger from exhaled breaths from Althouse jogging than they were to her as walkers."

What if Althouse has the virus already, but is one of those not showing symptoms?

Would it be that she put THEM in danger?

I thought the idea of sheltering at home was in part due to not knowing who may be carrying the virus.

Of course, they should've moved, but should she (or they) have been there at all? Is it 'essential'?As in: is being at the park more essential than getting a paycheck?

Rules are suggestions and suggestions are rules.

I am Laslo.

MayBee said...

It was an experiment in straightforwardness.

I propose you could have been more straight forward with the couple. Don't assume they know what you want, or what you are talking about. Be specific! "I am social distancing. Please give me 6 feet to pass". something like that.

This is a great example of when you could use the 4 Agreements. Three of them are very appropriate here:

Be impeccable with your word.
Don't take anything personally. (aka it's not about you. They weren't walking side by side to hurt you)
Don't make assumptions. (don't assume they know you are concerned very specifically 6 feet rather than 4. Tell them)
Always do your best (I believe you did your best here. How could you do it differently next time so you could have better results?)

AllenS said...

You could have called them "lying dog-faced pony soldiers", but that would have been too extreme.

Chris N said...

I’ve been on both sides of this. In our townlet, a very elderly, shuffling lady, making her way down Market street, probably so old and frail she should definitely be indoors and not downtown, barked at me ‘six feet’ ‘six feet’ as I simply neared her already giving six feet. I gave her a few more but thought as we so often do while younger but probably not older ‘maybe it’s time for this old broad to go anyways. Jesus’

On the other hand, two young men whoadudeyeahbros, accents probably from New England at the grocery store gave NO fucking space. Really, none. They walked up and down each aisle brushing against people. I thought of hitting one with an elbow but the second time I passed said ‘hey would you mind giving more space’ and one nodded but the other looked at me like I probably thought about the old lady or like it could be go time. I said ‘Thank you’

My two cents: Actual civility requires sacrifice. None of us likes to sacrifice very often or long without gain, or promise of future gain. Some hoard the rules governing civility like jewels and others rebel against them. If we sacrifice for rules, I presume we’re all familiar with the desire to punish those who don’t follow the rules and those following different rules.

Temujin said...

They're not very bright, but at least they're selfish!

My wife and I walk each morning. We don't pass a lot of people in our area these days, but we do pass some. And everyone we pass is gracious and conscientious to move away from each other and grant space. Everyone says 'good morning' or 'hello'. No issues. Everyone working together on the same page. BUT...

This is an area of a lot of seniors. Active, healthy, working out seniors, but older people who have seen some things in life and pay attention to what's going on. My wife and walk 2 abreast, but when we're coming up on someone we file down to 1 row and move off the path or sidewalk or onto the street to leave room for others. Or...they do it first for us.

Friendly area.

paminwi said...

Using objects to keep people away from you brings up a tip someone gave me in on our trip to Egypt. Always carry an umbrella with you so when it is hot you can make shade for yourself. And to keep the “souvenir sellers” AKA pickpockets away from you collapse your umbrella and hold it out in front of you with the pointy end outwards.

Worked like a dream!

Inga: have no idea where you get your supplies but Walmart on the west side of Madison has a sewing/fabric area. The lady I spoke with there told me they are ordering electric every week but said some people are using long flat shoe laces to make ties. If you need some shoelaces instead of making ties let me know since I have about 8 2-packs of 40” + laces I could get to you.

Sebastian said...

Meanwhile, 6.6.M people filed for unemployment benefits.

How long before we won't have an economy to reopen?

RMc said...

The woman was clearly blowing me off and had been snippy.

Everybody is snippy these days, and they're gonna get a whole lot snippier. If a foreign power (I'm looking at you, Iran) actually tries to take advantage of this situation, we'll be so pissed off that we'll nuke 'em right off the friggin' planet.

Ann Althouse said...

"I have run for over 30 years almost exclusively on the roads - but added trail running a few years ago and love it. I have wanted to get back out on the trails this spring, especially since I just finished 5 months of chemo (last chemo was mid January) but have not done so because of the whole distancing issue and (truth be told) because of the soggy conditions...."

That sounds so challenging! Good luck.

"During your next encounter with someone coming at you and not moving, It might be a good time to try a short fartlet and sprint by them - lessening the time spent in their radius - just make sure to take a deep breath before you get to them!"

Okay, I had some trouble understanding that... but I found "Fartlek":

"Fartlek, which means "speed play" in Swedish, is continuous training with interval training. Fartlek runs are a very simple form of a long distance run. Fartlek training “is simply defined as periods of fast running intermixed with periods of slower running." For some people, this could be a mix of jogging and sprinting, but for beginners it could be walking with jogging sections added in when possible. A simple example of what a runner would do during a fartlek run is “sprint all out from one light pole to the next, jog to the corner, give a medium effort for a couple of blocks, jog between four light poles and sprint to a stop sign, and so on, for a set total time or distance."The variable intensity and continuous nature of the exercise places stress on both the aerobic and anaerobic systems. It differs from traditional interval training in that it is unstructured; intensity and/or speed varies, as the athlete wishes. Fartlek training is generally associated with running, but can include almost any kind of exercise."'

I don't remember ever seeing that word (or "fartlet," which sure looks like it means a small fart!), but it is something I've understood as a thing you can do and it is something I do and actually have done as a solution to getting around people.

Known Unknown said...

You're already running. Just add a flying kick to the groin area and you'll be fine. Just hold your breath when you do it.

Chris N said...

Hey Ken B,

You have many valid points and criticisms, but could you please stop whining? If you diverge on opinion from a majority, and feel like you’ve left some fold, or that you’re unfairly taking on a majority, you should either take the heat, pick your spots or find another kitchen.

It’s not all about you. Thanks.

Left Bank of the Charles said...

If there are two or three of them and only one of you, it may be Pareto optimal for you to step off the path and into the woods. In addition, you may value the six feet of separation more than they do. In your mind, they get an equal benefit to stepping over as you get, a greater benefit if multiplied by the number of people, but in their minds it may be an inconvenience without appreciable benefit. You know from your blog commentariat that there are plenty of people out there who regard the 3 deaths in Dane County to be immaterial, You are right, of course.

We do have to develop a new etiquette for a whole bunch of situations. On these paths, instead of saying “passing” maybe we need to say “six feet”. Maybe that would work in the supermarket checkout too. You can wait for the person ahead of you to clear before putting your items in the checkout conveyer. Do you turn and say “six feet” to the person behind you who wants to do that before you have cleared? How do you pass in the grocery aisles? Do the aisles need to be one way with no passing? Is a shorter distance safe if you are wearing a mask and gloves?

I like the idea of a short bow or nod rather than an elbow bump to replace the handshake. A friend in Washington State has made up clothing patches that say Stay 6 Feet Away but she can’t get anyone but her husband to wear them. A lot of stores are marking the six feet intervals on the floor. In Union Square Somerville, there is a market that has marked intervals in chalk on the sidewalk with circles where people are to stand.

For situations where a physical demonstration is needed, we could all carry a seven foot length of string with a weight at the end to sing overhead helicopter style to claim our space. The extra foot is to compensate for the width of the body, perhaps we could mark other distances for when we are masked and gloved. Then we could stop in the pathway and aisles and swing our weighted strings, visually climb to go around our space. Or does that go too far?

AJ Ford said...

Would you feel any different if they or you or both were wearing masks? I suspect that the 6 foot rule disappears in all but sick wards if we're all wearing masks.

Ann Althouse said...

"Maybe if you're this anxious about getting the virus, it's time to stay home until it passes. It's not fair to subject the rest of the world to unnecessary paranoia."

I am actually not anxious. That word doesn't describe my feelings. It's more: Something big is happening, and we should understand what it is and what we need to do. How we treat other people is especially important now, and demonstrating that you know what it is and you are ready and eager to do it is part of how we live together. It's civilization. When we're out and about we should be showing each other that we're doing this thing and we care. When people act in some other way, it's dispiriting. I don't want civilization to crumble. I want people to feel called to help. I think that is mostly happening, and running into jerks is sad. I'd say I feel slightly sad and rather angry.

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...

I used to know a tall skinny runner guy. Well, I didn't really know him personally, but I knew of him as he was somewhat famous inside running circles. Running is a big thing here. Runner's mecca. We even have running cults and running communes.
Anyway, this guy ran all the time and at one point he developed walking pneumonia. (running pneumonia?)
He didn't know he had it. He died.

Rory said...

"Hello from Kennesaw. I wish our parks were still open. Cobb County has closed all the parking lots for the parks near us."

Same in my little township in Pennsylvania. The big county parks and trails are still open, and on nice days overrun with people. There's going to be carnage as the weather improves.

AJ Ford said...

Would you have been more comfortable if they or you or all were wearing masks?

I suspect that the 6 foot rule all but disappears (exception extremely close quarters with sick people) if everyone were wearing masks. Isn't that how we get back to business as (almost) normal? Masks and plenty of test kits?

rcocean said...

69 y/o Althouse needs to start packing heat. Remember: God made made men, but Samuel Colt made them equal.

Mark said...

A glimpse of the entitlement culture.

Harsh Pencil said...

There's some evidence we've been thinking about masks backwards when posing the question as one of whether a mask protects you against getting an airborne or droplet borne virus. The better question may be whether a mask protects others from getting the airborne or droplet borne virus from you. Affluent parts of Asia, and now the Czech Republic, have a real mask culture now. It's considered rude not to wear a mask in public. And it started to look like this works.

This might be how we get out of this. Everyone wears a cotton mask to work, to the grocery, while walking, at school ... everywhere until this subsides. They don't have to be perfect. All that matters is whether they reduce the probability of transmission to a low enough point that the average person infects less than one person over the course of his or her disease. Do that, and this thing just dies out without destroying the economy.

rcocean said...

My wife is not really a jogger/walker/biker. Both my daughter and I, just take the risk. We go off path if necessary, but normally just breeze on by. I'd love to know the scientific basis for 6 ft. Why not 4 ft? or 8 ft? And I'd bet there's a big fudge factor involved, there always is.

Notice nobody is suggesting you can't walk in a store that's been full of people, and supposedly full of virus germs floating in big clouds, filling up the store. Bottom line: I'm skeptical that walking quickly past someone from 3 feet away is unsafe.

rcocean said...

People are walking more because there's nothing else to do. My prediction is that when this is over American will have lost weight, and turned alcoholic.

Ken B said...

“Something big is happening, and we should understand what it is and what we need to do. How we treat other people is especially important now, and demonstrating that you know what it is and you are ready and eager to do it is part of how we live together. It's civilization. “

Some commenters seem actively hostile to this point, as if they were demanding their few grams of flesh in retribution for your support of emergency measures.

Bruce Hayden said...

“In ordinary times, there are many people who reject social enforcement. In extraordinary times, an increase in lawlessness and decrease in social manners among a subset of the population may be expected. If I were a 60-something retired lady law professor, I wouldn't go about attempting to force my social norms, no matter how reasonable, on strangers just now. Let's be careful out there, Althouse! Civilization is thin veneer over a savage nature.”

Ann - you tried to shame them. But that probably isn’t the way they saw it. Three guys walking dow the path together, and a small almost 70 year old woman, is not going to intimidate them. One might defer, based on your age and sex. Three though?

As males, we go through life with old ladies trying to shame us, and have to build up a resistance to it. We comply when we have to, when they are our own elders, or the elders of other guys who would enforce their views. But a group of three younger males are not going to be shamed by a smaller older (to them) woman. There is strength in numbers, and in this case, I would three is the number when this really starts kicking in. There is a good chance that they didn’t even realize that they were being shamed. They may have just subconsciously figured that you got off the trail, because they ruled the jungle (or the path), by their size and numbers, and you naturally respected their strength.

Part of this dynamic is that women are naturally the ones who are most invested in social norms. Who protect them most zealously. And that is driven essentially by older women controlling younger ones. So women often seem to gain power as they age, at least over other women. But a lot of guys advance by challenging social norms. And, after a point, we lose power as we lose the ability to face challenges by other men. This dynamic has been suggested to be part of why women live longer than men - because they provide social value longer.

Ann Althouse said...

I guess it's always true that there are a lot of jerks out there in the world. If you scratch the surface, you'll see it. I don't want to be any more misanthropic than I already am. I do always have hope that the best will come out in people, but I'm not surprised to see them being jerks. The question is do you avoid other people or go ahead and have encounters with them? I mostly avoid, and when I do that, I can imagine them to be good or bad — whatever I want. If you have an encounter, you get more evidence, and I'd like to think the evidence would show that people are decently good... but of course they are selfish and don't like being told they're doing something wrong.

Sebastian said...

"I don't want civilization to crumble."

It is crumbling. It will crumble a little more if we stay on the current path. And there will be no stepping aside.

"I want people to feel called to help."

Young people are helping, sacrificing massively though at minimal risk themselves. But it's a little hard to "feel called" when you are being forced to help. Most are willing, so far, but not forever.

Old people would help by staying away, entirely. Exercise on your deck; get neighborhood kids to bring groceries; leave the path and the sunrise to others.

You need the rest of us to do our jobs, so that we can provide for you and prevent civilization from crumbling.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

"During your next encounter with someone coming at you and not moving, It might be a good time to try a short fartlet and sprint by them - lessening the time spent in their radius

I read that as being a small fart and immediately remembered Jack Nicholson in the Bucket List where he said of the three things he has learned in life.....

"Never trust a fart"

Ann Althouse said...

My last comment made me want to quote this from Woody Allen's autobiography:

"I knew I had truth on my side, which I now know is no assurance of anything, and those William Steig cufflinks my aunt Molly bought me for my bar mitzvah, which depicted a man with a spear through his body and the caption “People are no damn good,” was an insight that trumped Anne Frank’s."

rcocean said...

"I don't want civilization to crumble. I want people to feel called to help. I think that is mostly happening, and running into jerks is sad. I'd say I feel slightly sad and rather angry."

I'm doing my part. I refuse to vote Democrat. Also, X percent will be jerks no matter what. Adversity doesn't build character, it revels it.

Black Bellamy said...

I have a solution that works for me personally. I have used it with 100% effectiveness every time I needed room, whether in a crowd or on the walkway.

I take in as much air as I can and at the top of my lungs I yell MAKE WAY!!

MAKE WAY!!! Repeat as often as needed.

You yell that while striding forward and people will just jump! It's like Moses with the sea.

I learned that in the Army; worked there and it works out here. Of course it helps that I'm a big guy, but if you use the command voice it will work from anyone.

David53 said...

Don't run in areas where you will be forced to communicate with fools.

An experiment in straightforwardness? Heh. I was surprised the 3 men didn't ignore you, they must have been Christians.

rcocean said...

One advantage to being a pessimist is you'll rarely be disappointed. Personally, I've found most people in my area are pitching in and doing their bit. But as my parents said "There's always one" - in war there's always the hoarder, the traitor, the blackmareteer, the draft dodger, the selfish war profiteer, etc. WHy should this be any different? If 90% of the people behave well, that's all you can expect.

Fernandinande said...

(old joke - booo)

Good one, though. Here's an old joke that I just made up:

Yo mama so fat nobody can get 6 feet away from her.

exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...

A mask should not be necessary for someone going out to exercise, at least not in a small city like Madison. There should be no problem keeping more than 6 feet away from other joggers and walkers - unless of course, they happen to behave like these two idiots.

Dude1394 said...

I think you are being ridiculous.

MayBee said...

but of course they are selfish and don't like being told they're doing something wrong.

What if they are not jerks? What if they didn't know what you wanted? How could you have changed that?
People giving you 4 feet rather than 6 don't seem to be especially awful people. The encounter afterward seems to be an example of miscommunication. As much as we would like them to, strangers don't usually come away from a snippy encounter saying to themselves, "You know, she/they were right! I was the one who was wrong"
For example, you are convinced they were jerks! Nothing anyone has said changes your opinion on that. Do you think they are so different? If they thought *you* were the jerk, what do you think would change their mind?

That's why the best thing you can do is be clear in your communication. Do you think they would have responded the same way had you said "Please give me 6 feet to pass. I'm very concerned about coronavirus"

exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...

rcocean said...
People are walking more because there's nothing else to do. My prediction is that when this is over American will have lost weight, and turned alcoholic.

4/2/20, 9:23 AM

Some will lose weight. Others will get even fatter, since they're sitting on the sofa stress eating junk food.

Otto said...

A crisis like COVID-19 shows the phony humanism stance exhorted by the liberal elites.
One of the well known precautions of this virus is for old people to stay at home. So Ann what are you doing taking a walk on a public walk path. You can do exercises at home. So who is selfish?

Triangle Man said...

Althouse sounds vigilant, not anxious.

narciso said...

I find my neighborhood is pretty friendly, but the lockdown began at midnight so,

Sally327 said...

So which of the oldsters among us will give up their chance at a ventilator to benefit one of these twits?

Fernandinande said...

I cried because I had no shoes until I met a man who had no feet, so I said "Hey man, can I have your shoes?"

Fernandinande said...

Two atoms are jogging together and one of them says "Ruh roh! I think I lost an electron!" And the other one asks "Are you sure?" and the first one says, "Yes, I’m COVID-19 positive."

etbass said...

I like Begley's suggestion, Althouse. But only if you are carrying. Makes you feel safer even if you would never use it.

tcrosse said...

On board ship it was traditional to make way by saying "Lady with a baby".

MayBee said...

Inga: You don’t move it out of your way to talk, it’s completely possible to talk with a mask on. How do you think healthcare workers communicate? And yes, you don’t play with it or just throw it somewhere when you get home. You put in in a receptacle to be laundered in hot soapy bleachy water.

Yes, these are things I know. But also....I lived in Asia during SARS. I have seen both there (and here) the mistakes people *not used to wearing maks* make. Move it out of their way to drink from their water bottle is another thing.
Just the other day I got a delivery, and the guy had his mask down around his chin so he could talk to me through the ring doorbell.

I'm not saying you are supposed to move it out of your way. I'm saying people do! And it's very weird not to! Medical professionals (and people in jobs like Howard's) have gotten very used to working with this weird thing.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

We do need to worry about physical and mental decline -- our own and that of other people -- if they hole up indoors all the time.

An acquaintance's wife has not allowed any member of their family to cross the threshold of their home for 17 days and counting.

My older childrens' stepmother discourages them from leaving the house while they are there (we share custody) and my 18 year old has not left that house in four days. She's taking 18 credit hours by distance from her university and is slowly going insane; I tell her to take walks around the block to clear her head but she wants to be respectful to her stepmother's comfort.

Our county just went around taking down basketball hoops at all the county parks.

Forty cases, none serious, none in an ICU bed, in my county of 360,000 souls.

Maybe some smart and influential people need to spend some time thinking about whether they are contributing to a culture of paranoia leading to physical and mental decline.

mockturtle said...

"O, wad some Power the giftie gie us To see oursels as others see us! It wad frae monie a blunder free us, An' foolish notion." ― Robert Burns

Ken B said...

Chris N
I was never part of any fold and care little what any majority thinks.
We are discussing the ill effects of people not accommodating themselves to new expectations. It will be worse if people think that, for example, covid is a hoax, or not a real threat, or that only sick oldsters are at risk, or that distancing is not effective, or that it’s just a socialist power grab. All these nonsensical ideas are spread here. They need to challenged, mocked, stood up to. That I do. And shall continue.
Look up the “civility bullshit” tag.

rehajm said...

If you run in the morning in South Carolina nearly everyone is aware and moves to the opposite side of the trail or the street. Once in a while there's a child or a dog that needs to be corralled or if you run with light feet and they don't hear you coming but I haven't had any pushback from anyone.

Maybe move where there are fewer assholes?

Friends in Boston say this week you could play street hockey on Boylston St nearly uninterrupted. Maybe risk it?

Fritz said...

In his shelter in place directive for Maryland, Gov. Hogan specifically made allowances for going outside to walk and hike as long as the protective distance was maintained. However, he also banned recreational fishing and boating regardless. So if I were to go out in the middle of Bay with no one in the boat, and a mile or more from anyone (a distinct possibility this time of year), it would be a violation.

"Thou shalt not have fun during this crisis!"

At least we can still walk the beach.

Original Mike said...

"That's why the best thing you can do is be clear in your communication. Do you think they would have responded the same way had you said "Please give me 6 feet to pass. I'm very concerned about coronavirus""

MayBee's right. "You don't know what I'm talking about?" is not being straightforward. You were expecting them to read your mind.

Fernandinande said...

"Lady with a baby".

That's no baby, that's my wife!

ALP said...

Bored with US coverage of the pandemic, I've been watching some broadcasts from India. Boy those police in India don't play around. Violating the stay at home order? They just start wailing on offenders with long sticks, beating them about the head until they start running. Sometimes cultural appropriation is a good thing, no?

The background music to their pandemic coverage reminds me of Saturday night horror movies - and much time is spent on Bollywood actresses that test positive yet are attending parties.

Ann - get yourself a long stick! s/

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

All these nonsensical ideas are spread here. They need to challenged, mocked, stood up to. That I do. And shall continue

You are changing precisely zero minds and just making a pest of yourself.

Paul said...

Just pull your roscoe and tell them to ... "GIT!!" and they will give you room on the path!

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

So if I were to go out in the middle of Bay with no one in the boat, and a mile or more from anyone (a distinct possibility this time of year), it would be a violation.

A couple counties away from me, the sheriff promised that his deputies would pull over any car with more than two people in it, and cars with families in them, and they would be ticketed on the first offense and jailed on the second offense.

Because putting people in jail for driving in their cars and harming no one (via the virus, anyway), and putting their children in foster care, presumably, is WINNING!

Those of you who think this is about public safety and not about a soft walk to controlling your movements: I pray you wake up one of these days.

TheDopeFromHope said...

If people don't get out of the way, I'd say it's time for a little kung-flu fighting!

PluralThumb said...

Interesting.
To choose fear of conflict & hope the people would swoop to the side while focus and contribution to society needs a recharge. How dare those Adam & Eve plagiarist pretent to be a fascist and a nazi.
I would not suggest coughing while passing human, maybe a bike or truck horn for those 2 !
Just a misunderstanding I suppose.
A full ninja suit and plastic flayeling battle axes next time ?

- idk

Anthony said...

I'm a bit torn by this post. On the one hand, my first thought was "JAYsus, Ann is such a Karen!"

I've worked and published in global/public health and epidemiology for 30 years now and am thoroughly convinced this will turn out, in the end, to be the equivalent of a moderately severe flu. Put in context, this is next to nothing terribly exceptional.

Then again, as I'm out and about doing my as-normal-as-I-can routine, I have wondered, in not so many words (except for right now), "What would Miss Manners say?" Just because I think people are over-reacting, is it my business to get in their face (metaphorically speaking) to make that point? I think not. Then again, apart from thoroughly bullet-proof evidence that the 6-foot rule (which reminds me greatly of the stupid 8-glasses-of-water-a-day rule) really works (which there isn't), is it my obligation to cater to other peoples' phobia? Again, in general, I think not, for the most part. And yet, proper manners must prevail and I think they can be applied in workable fashion. Thus, my strategies:

-- If I'm walking down the sidewalk and someone is approaching me, I do as I usually do, and walk to one side (or, if two of us, we walk single file). If they're not comfortable with the distance then they can move out of the way (which some do).

-- Elsewhere, I maintain whatever distance those around me seem to be comfortable with. If a store has markers saying where to stand, I will abide by their rules; it's their establishment, after all. I generally maintain some distance as a matter of courtesy anyway.

-- I will offer my hand in greeting, but be graceful if there is a decline.

-- Having worked in and around hospitals for several years, I use several strategies for maintaining proper hygiene without going all nutso anyway; these I have not changed or added to (I'm 57 and in superb health anyway).

Come to think of it, maybe if we all just minded Miss Manners as a matter of course, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. . . . .

Kevin said...

Cobb: "You're waiting for a train. A train that will take you far away. You know where you hope the train will take you, but you can't know for sure. Yet it doesn't matter. Now, tell me why?"

Mal: "Because everyone will stay six feet apart!"

Paul J said...

Your getting hung up on the exact 6 foot figure is obsessive anal literalism. 4 foot to pass was plenty of room.

Charlie Currie said...

Carry your six foot social distancing light saber.

Charlie said...

I went into a chain pharmacy yesterday to pick up some meds. Staff was all wearing masks. As I approached the pickup counter, the young woman behind the 4-foot-deep counter yelled "Sir! Stand back 6 feet! Social distancing, sir!" Because of the construction, I couldn't have gotten closer than 6 feet unless I had pole-vaulted over. I pointed out that we *were* 6 feet apart. "Behind the yellow line, Sir!" They had tape on the floor. "Ah, yes, sorry, but then we'll be 12 feet apart. Is that far enough, do you think?" She didn't comment, just asked for my information and passed me on to the pharmacist. What I wanted to say inside of my head I didn't say, because I realized that these folks must be stressed to have to be working with the public in this time.

Jalanl said...

Can see why you might have been upset. You feel how you feel but maybe there is some room for a little charity. Maybe the "bitch" and "asshole" were preoccupied because they have lost their jobs and don't know how they are going to pay their rent this month. Maybe they just lost their mother and could not say "goodbye" because the Hospice is under lockdown. Maybe they are distracted by 4 kids at home with nothing to do and running out of food... which they cannot buy because their restaurant business failed in the last 2 weeks. Maybe their Grandmother died and they cannot hold a funeral. Maybe they work the the state pension board, and are worried about the letter going out to retirees that benefits are going to be cut because nobody is working and the state is out of money!

reader said...

They were rude and threatening to an unaccompanied female. When I dog walk I always carry Sabre Red Pepper spray for aggressive dogs. As a bonus it has a 10’ range and thus still effective with social distancing. :)

Enjoy your trial jogs while you can. If incidents like this increase it could be closed.

Andy said...

My spoken words were — and this is verbatim — "Wow. Oh, man. Okay." My unspoken words will remain unwritten.

There is iron in your words of death for all Comanche to see, and so there is iron in your words of life.

There was probably iron in your unspoken words for all assholes to see. You were right not to argue. You should have been shown more respect. Back in the day the lepers used to have to go around saying "unclean unclean" so that others could steer clear of them, but what about today. What simple clue should we give to get others to keep their distance and who should give it. I deliver pizza and I really appreciate those costumers who put delivery instructions to leave the order on their porch and pre-tip,

D.D. Driver said...

"When people act in some other way, it's dispiriting. I don't want civilization to crumble. I want people to feel called to help. I think that is mostly happening, and running into jerks is sad. I'd say I feel slightly sad and rather angry."

Pedestrians think cyclists are jerks. Joggers hate the inline skaters. Etc. Etc. Etc. People have been fighting over their right to superior access to trails since forever. And they ALL think the "other guy" is the jerk.

No one has a right to demand the rest of society walk in single file and talk to the back of each others' heads because one person want to go out jogging by themselves. I personally think the burden in on the person who cannot suffer a 4-5 foot radius to find a jogging route that does not require the rest of the world to march single file. It comes across like classic Boomer entitlement.

M Jordan said...

D.D.Driver ... Well put.

Big Mike said...

@Althouse, next time, cough on them as you pass. Practice in front of a mirror until you can do a good fake cough.

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