In a smart quarantine, anyone in a family who is not well — and if you’re sheltering in place, whomever you are with is considered “family” — must get tested and be separated from the family until results return. While awaiting results, the separated family member can move into temporary accommodations overseen by medical professionals and be tested.It would be very hard to get Americans to accept that. Coming forward as "not well" has extreme consequences. You're put in some sort of government camp, it seems, and you're kept there even if you test negative. You get 2 weeks of internment just for coming forward to be tested. What kind of housing would this be? How could it spring up so suddenly in any sort of form we would accept? Or are we so worn down we're ready to be moved around and incarcerated like this?
Those that test negative remain in quarantine in their accommodations, and if they test negative again at 14 days, they can return home, where they must continue to shelter in place. Those that test positive leave their temporary accommodations and enter a more formal Covid-19 recovery facility. Most of these people will recover and will be sent home in about two weeks after testing negative at least twice. People who get worse will be sent to an acute care facility.
ADDED: It's interesting that the NYT doesn't have a comments section for this one. I wanted to know how the Times readers reacted. As for my readers, here's a taste:
"Climb into the cattle cars, you'll find showers when you get there" — The first comment on this post, by Bumble Bee.
"Children would no doubt be involved, does a 'smart' policy advocating removing them from their families for 2+ weeks? Also, who is going to work these jobs? Lots of brain power, no common sense" — Mark.
"Perhaps this will be necessary if a truly virulent pathogen were to emerge...but this virus is not that. This 'smart quarantine' is a despot’s wet dream" - Krumhorn.
"Love op-eds like this one without comments, which would be brutal. You think there is any chance I am letting one of my small children who 'isn't feeling well' get sent to a government quarantine unit for weeks? There would be civil war. This has me angry this morning. But yea, let's trust experts" — John Borell.
"When I heard smart quarantine, I thought they meant loosening up on the healthy. But no... Sure, round them up and send them into camps. That’ll work" — tim maguire.
"So you want me to voluntarily go to a facility that likely has others with the disease for two weeks just to find out of I have the disease? Didn't this start at a place in Washington kinda like that? How'd that work out? I'll try my luck at home, thanks" — NoMook said.
Posts
150 comments:
Climb into the cattle cars, you'll find showers when you get there.
Experts tend to produce narrowly-focussed plans.
I'd say have a covid town and a no-covid town, with vacation homes in the mirror town. When you test positive, you move to your vacation home in the town with the other sick people. When you're well, you can move back. No need for masks or social distancing after you've moved.
Children would no doubt be involved, does a 'smart' policy advocating removing them from their families for 2+ weeks?
Also, who is going to work these jobs?
Lots of brain power, mo common sense
Two words.
Fuck. That.
People will hide symptoms. The bureaucracy doesn't get that.
Getting to the point where survival of the species will require eradication of experts...
Rhhardin, 6:16:
Yes, but they’re smart plans. So, you know - only not-smart people could be opposed.
The Smart Quarantine during WWII Germany was very effective.
Those people got free train trips, gratis accommodations, and good jobs in the country -- away from the bombing!
Perhaps this will be necessary if a truly virulent pathogen were to emerge...but this virus is not that. This “smart quarantine” is a despot’s wet dream.
- Krumhorn
Whenever I hear about "herd immunity" I know that person thinks of us as cattle.
It's a Faucian term, not a Trumpian one.
The problem with experts, they are good at thinking and planning, not so good at practical implementation and execution of their plans.
"It will require us to endure new and difficult challenges. But the long-term benefits — fewer infections and deaths, a quicker return to work and “normalcy” — will far outweigh the short-term hardships."
Yea, don't agree with that at all. Their plan will not "far outweigh the short-term hardships." If anything, I think it would increase them.
This is why we have the second amendment.
Obama would have been on TV lecturing us about herd immunity.
We would have needed to create "oceans of immunity" across the "wide plains of American life".
There would have been many smiling and nodding people in white lab coats behind him.
The White House Press Corp and CNN talking heads would have mooed adoringly.
Love op-eds like this one without comments, which would be brutal.
You think there is any chance I am letting one of my small children who "isn't feeling well" get sent to a government quarantine unit for weeks?
There would be civil war.
This has me angry this morning. But yea, let's trust experts.
Not exactly on-topic, but some people mentioned this survey of doctors in the cafe thread. Partial summary:
Treatments & Efficacy:
• 3 most commonly prescribed treatments amongst COVID-19 treaters are 56% analgesics, 41% Azithromycin, and 33% Hydroxychloroquine.
• Hydroxychloroquine usage amongst COVID-19 treaters is 72% in Spain, 49% in Italy, 41% in Brazil, 39% in Mexico, 28% in France, 23% in US, 17%
in Germany, 16% in Canada, 13% in UK and 7% in Japan.
• Hydroxychloroquine was overall chosen as the most effective therapy from a list of 15 options (37% of COVID-19 treaters).
• 75% in Spain, 53% Italy, 44% in China, 43% in Brazil, 29% in France, 23% in US and 13% in UK.
• The two most common treatment regimens for Hydroxychloroquine were:
• (38%) 400mg twice daily on day one; 400 mg daily for 5 days.
• (26%) 400mg twice daily on day one; 200mg twice daily for 4 days.
• Outside the US, Hydroxychloroquine was equally used for diagnosed patients with mild to severe symptoms whereas in the US it was most commonly
used for high risk diagnosed patients.
• Globally, 19% of physicians prescribed or have seen Hydroxychloroquine prophylactically used for high risk patients, and 8% for low risk patients.
Second Wave of Outbreak:
• Second global outbreak is anticipated by 83% of global physicians, 90% of US physicians but only 50% of Chinese physicians.
Peak Timing & Restrictions:
• In the US, 63% of physicians recommend restrictions be lifted six or more weeks from now and 66% believe the peak is at least 3-4 weeks away.
Well, they built all those field hospitals, and Democratic mayors and governors are going to put them to use needed or not. Gotta virtue signalling that their over the top lockdowns saved the day. They will say Trump saved no one. We did.
Whoops, screwed up the link. Here it is.
And meanwhile of course, right here, right now, the CDC is preventing people from taking tests to find out whether or not they have the coronavirus infection.
Most places you can only get a test if you have pneumonia, or are in some special category.
Oh, and the government has basically made it illegal for private parties to take the samples needed to do the tests.
I thought the "smart quarantine" was going to be those high risk individuals quarantine themselves. We have good numbers now. We know those at risk to serious health issues or death. Let's get them protected and let the rest of the country start to return to selected activities.
The last time America rounded up and quarantined people, we won WWII.
Of course this time we'll be Smarter(tm) about who we quarantine.
This time racial disparities are going to be duly noted.
And we don't need an outbreak of Quarantine Studies Majors.
When I heard smart quarantine, I thought they meant loosening up on the healthy. But no...
Sure, round them up and send them into camps. That’ll work.
If only there had been such a plan for elm trees.
When I heard smart quarantine, I thought they meant loosening up on the healthy. But no...
Sure, round them up and send them into camps. That’ll work.
Thank God Trump is President this won't happen this year. But if anyone ever needed a clearer reason why you can never vote (D) this is it.
Treatments & Efficacy:
• 3 most commonly prescribed treatments amongst COVID-19 treaters are 56% analgesics, 41% Azithromycin, and 33% Hydroxychloroquine.
This is tragic, since analgesics that reduce fever increase the probability of a bad outcome, like for instance hospitalization or death.
If you get a fever don't take any of the common painkillers, aspirin, ibuprofen, or acetaminophen, as the fever is good for your immune system and amplifies the recruitment of certain immune cell types.
Sounds like these experts don't like blacks! How racist!!
So you want me to voluntarily go to a facility that likely has others with the disease for two weeks just to find out of I have the disease? Didn't this start at a place in Washington kinda like that? How'd that work out? I'll try my luck at home, thanks.
"A plan so bad only a group of experts could have devised it."
Aren't we trying to flatten the curve so medical professionals are not over burdened? And then this "smart quarantine" puts medical professionals in charge of all people who aren't feeling well? That seems...burdensome.
People who test positive for a desire to send people to camps, tested by the toxic words they shed into the environment, should be sent to camps until they test negative.
This is what happens when top men work on the problem.
Blogger rhhardin said...No need for masks or social distancing after you've moved.
So you propose increasing viral loading in sick people? You are now pre-qualified to write a NYT Op Ed.
Hard to believe some cannot see this is blatant CCP propaganda.
In New York they just put up a web-form to gather data about people who have coronavirus symptoms. On the second page it asks for your name, address, and contact information. I considered filling it out because I had a bad cold last week, maybe coronavirus. But when I saw that they wanted that information, I stopped. The shutdown is miserable enough without giving the government reasons to check up on people individually to make sure they're staying home (which I did anyway).
There is a constant temptation among people who got their jobs because they are smart and schooled: "The world would be a better place if we could tell people what to do." It leads to a certain blindness.
Forget these fantasies. In the real world we need more testing availability right now. NYPD friend was tested on 3/22/20. Results came back positive on 3/24/20. Her symptoms were always mild, but she was treated with a zpack. She still has slight cough. Today NYPD ordered her back to work because it has been two weeks. No testing to ensure she is clear. Normal procedure is you are ordered to health services and cleared by doctor for return to full duty. Now they are skipping that part - guess the doctors don't want to get sick. The idea that everyone is automatically clear after two weeks is a joke. It is almost impossible to get tested unless you go to a hospital emergency room or walk-in treatment center. Walk-in locations tell you a week for results, drive through - ten days. But almost impossible to get appointment at drive through. Two friends who went to walk-in treatment centers were not even tested, because it takes so long to get results.
It's easy to spot stupid people (aka Trump voters). They are the ones who ascribe nefarious conspiracy to obvious stupidity or incompetence.
It's a Darwinian driver to protect their own kind.
"What kind of housing would this be?"
I'm guessing brick buildings with large crematoria for those who die inside, smokestacks and train tracks running right through the middle of the thing - you know, to offset the carbon emissions.
Fineberg wrote this, you say?
An idea so stupid only an intellectual could support it.
Maybe time to quarantine the bureaucrats and experts.
Any one seen night of the comets, after the devolution the two scientists who are siphoning the kids blood.
This is the kind of solution Ken B would strongly advocate until it blew up in his face, whereupon he would deny ever even hearing about it. I understand the NIH has recently classified this memory defect "Ken-heimers disease," and it's becoming pandemic on some blogs. It can't kill you directly but long term side effects include lose of income and a general decline in well being.
I am disinclined to acquiesce to this request.
Means "no".
https://vimeo.com/28907045
It's easy to spot stupid people (aka SJW's). They are ok with fascism, as long as it's their fascism.
"mandrewa said...
Most places you can only get a test if you have pneumonia, or are in some special category."
And, miraculously, this virus seems to have cured pneumonia. Nobody's dies of pneumonia anymore. About a month ago is a pretty major killer and now it's gone
meanwhile
I watched Trump’s presser last night. First time I’ve watched on of those. Hilarious.
Funny, because Trump was like.a daddy trying to quiet stupid, wise ass kids. He repeatedly told reporters to behave themselves, to be positive, and to stop asking gotcha questions.
The reporters kept asking him why he didn’t take more draconian security measures.
Trump admonished the reporters at least four times that he’s constrained in his actions by the constitution and federalism.
What a dictator!
cacimbo-
Forget these fantasies. In the real world we need more testing availability right now. NYPD friend was tested on 3/22/20. Results came back positive on 3/24/20. Her symptoms were always mild, but she was treated with a zpack. She still has slight cough. Today NYPD ordered her back to work because it has been two weeks. No testing to ensure she is clear.
This seems ridiculous. Are you 100% sure this is the procedure? is it possible you don't test negative after you've had it?
Slain is an internist and entrepreneur.
Interesting phrase. I wonder who will be operating the internment centers.
And, to add a little nostalgic touch from our growing-up days, how about calling them something cozy like "camps."
Related: Matt Taibbi announces he’s quitting Rolling Stone to so solo because he could no longer abide the pressure to produce lefty propaganda.
And Taibbi is very left wing.
His disillusionment with the corruption of the press began with his anger over Rolling Stone’s UVA gang rape fabrication story.
Will they have forced labor too?
"Smart" - ugh, that word. Do they (wildly over-)use it because the kids love their smartphones and much?
"Smart diplomacy": the Great Apology World Tour, the Russian Reset Button, a red line that turned out to be dashed and thus trivial to cross. "Smart home": easily hackable devices with always-on mics that record, storing their recordings God knows where. "Smart quarantine": a plan that incorporates a bunch of elements that, if they weren't designed to call to mind WWII, certainly do a great job of it anyway, with a million details of execution (sorry, pun truly not intended) that would make or break the plan but are not mentioned in the "smart" summary. Just the question of children and parents alone is enough to sink it as an idea.
Come on. Calling something "smart" is lazy. (And a way too obvious insult as well. Didn't anybody ever tell these people that insulting those whose cooperation you need is often... counterproductive?)
@Maybee The CDC website lists "two negative tests in a row" as one of the ways to determine if you are still contagious.They also list "no fever for 72 hours". Since most of those who I know with coronavirus had mild to no fever, this doesn't seem like a great basis for determining if you are contagious.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/if-you-are-sick/steps-when-sick.html
And, miraculously, this virus seems to have cured pneumonia. Nobody's dies of pneumonia anymore. About a month ago is a pretty major killer and now it's gone
Heart attacks/heart disease, diabetes, even the common flu.
Just don't let anyone tell you they're counting non-C19 deaths as C19 deaths. That's a conspiracy theory.
Certainly the sudden, sharp drop in these deadly ailments are due to people living healthier due to the quarantine/lockdown.
Highly educated stupidity. Not even a fleeting reference to the pain caused to blue collar workers (hotel, restaurants, casinos, airlines, small business, electricians, plumbers) by the economic shutdown. Not even a fleeting reference to reopening work for healthy people. Not even a fleeting reference to any meaningful data of the current disease, compared to prior outbreaks.
Calfornia - most populous state in the union - 39 Million people: 387 deaths over 3 month period from Covid-19. Much lower death rate here than auto accidents or yearly flu.
Famous quote by Stanford Epidemiologist, Dr. John Ioannidis:
"A population-wide case fatality rate of 0.05% is lower than seasonal influenza. If that is the true rate, locking down the world with potentially tremendous social and financial consequences may be totally irrational. It’s like an elephant being attacked by a house cat. Frustrated and trying to avoid the cat, the elephant accidentally jumps off a cliff and dies.”
cacimbo- then the NYPD policy, if it is accurately stated here, seems incredibly dangerous. I hope your friend has some way of reporting it to someone who can do something about it.
That seems...burdensome.
There is only one socially-responsible, forward-looking remedy to alleviate a "burden".
This is what happens when top men work on the problem.
Top men, top women... sex is not a factor when normalizing wicked solutions. Or rather we should be wary of indulging diversity (i.e. color judgments).
"Hard to believe some cannot see this is blatant CCP propaganda." - Browndog
This is similar to what the CCP did minus the welding the door shut. I have already seen video of drones warning people to go inside. If you don't want to believe some of the media is bought off by China, so be it. We know much of academia is bought off and their is evidence so is the media.
Americans will not do this. Just read that Major League Baseball is shooting for a May return. This country is currently half full of people looking ahead at when we can get moving again. In another month there will be 3/4 of the country ready to move. Again- aside from New York, Detroit, New Orleans, maybe New Jersey & Connecticut, the states are working through this.
Baseball is not the standard to follow, but if that story is out there it shows how many industries (not just individual businesses, but industries) are thinking about how to move forward. And individual people are thinking the same thing. What they are NOT thinking about is going agreeably into government set up 'holding pens' (internment camps?). It doesn't sound right. It would not be implemented correctly. And these guys who lend their credential to try to give this thinking some heft should be ignored.
This is not a good idea.
Damn, these idiots. I see smart quarantine, and I'm thinking there is hope people will explain how quarantine actually works. You quarantine the sick and you quarantine the vulnerable. You let everyone else carryon so that society functions. Instead, these clowns mean, You quarantine the sick, the vulnerable, and then everyone else. It is simply divide and concur. Of course, the NYT kind of gave away that it would be a dumb idea.
oh that
"Smart quarantine." What a concept. Except that some of us have been advocating it from the outset. Not just for the sick, also for those most at risk. As in, actual quarantines.
"It would be very hard to get Americans to accept that."
Right. Better to ruin the economy. Of course, actual quarantines have to be enforced. But it would be very hard -- etc. Better to devastate the lives of tens of millions people.
Anyway, I am pleased that some "experts" are trying #StopTheInsanity.
This is so goofy, Bill Gates (he's somewhere on the Aspergers spectrum) must be behind it.
What we most need are effective pharmaceutical treatments and vaccines, and consistent observance of public health practices--wash your hands, stay home if you are ill, cover coughs and sneezes, and, now, wear a mask when you are interacting with others in an enclosed space.
As this goes on, I am realizing that arts organizations--with their disproportionately elderly patrons and enclosed performance spaces--are climbing a steep hill out of this mess. Every theater organization, dance company, classical music group, art gallery, etc. is at risk until there are effective vaccines, well-recognized herd immunity, and very effective treatment protocols.
"Children in cages" would be child's play.
Even if this were a good idea, what administration -- much less the Trump administration -- would put this forced internment program in place knowing the battle space has been prepared by the NYT to decry the "racial disparities" likely to follow?
There are real world consequences to the NYT woke narrative.
And you'd think people advocating forced internment program that would need procedures codified in writing might communicate with better precision than identifying people as "not well".
"Showing symptoms" may be a better term to differentiate potential carriers from those who are most vulnerable to the ravages of infection due to existing illness that make them already vulnerable and "not well".
It would be very hard to get Americans to accept that.
Tremendous understatement. Sounds like what FDR did to the Japanese-Americans in 1942.
This has to be one of the worst
Headline: About time!
Body: Oh, Hell No!
stories ever.
Tucker Carlson was very good about all this last night.
If you don't want to be separated from your family and locked up by the government, you're obviously a denier and want everyone to die.
OK. Just read the piece. Sorry.
I agree, Americans won't do this. So it's not "smart." Nor does it use this to force a general reopening of the economy. Not smart. I revise my previous endorsement.
But we do need a smarter quarantine, of at-risk people in their homes, with support. Old people! Sick people! Stay out of the way! Out of the stores! Off the trails! Away from cute grandkid! No more hugs! Rigorous separation is still the answer.
At what point, after weeks of pseudo-quarantine, do we say that new infections by those objectively at high risk are the responsibility of the people getting infected? At what point do we stop sacrificing for people who will not protect themselves?
If they think my husband and I would let them haul our small children who "don't feel well" to government internment camps for two weeks (sure sure, just 2 weeks!) they'd have to walk over our dead bodies to get at them.
harry mime industries
Also, you better believe people would hide the tiniest symptom, scared of the government camps they'll go to if found out.
Dr. Oz is on tv now with deep dive data saying that no lupus patient treated with hydroxychloroquine has contracted COVID-19. He says they went into medical records for lupus patients and insurance records.
No link yet...
"Fineberg is is the president of the Gordon and Betty Moore Foundation and a former president of the National Academy of Medicine. Kim is an infectious disease physician and a former president of the World Bank. Shlain is an internist and entrepreneur."
And yet, they came up with an idea this bad and published it!
You could just walk around, shouting "Unclean! Unclean!"
Ray: "If you don't want to believe some of the media is bought off by China, so be it. We know much of academia is bought off and their is evidence so is the media."
Just yesterday, YESTERDAY, hack lefty "reporter" Jonathan Karl of ABC News who happens to be the current head of the White House Correspondents Association, invited in as a guest reporter to question our President, a "reporter" who works for a Hong Kong based, ChiCom owned "news" outlet that is literally run by a "former" CCP Propaganda officer.
The CCP propagandists arent even trying to hide it anymore.
New home of the future -> the home quarantine room.
I got an idea. Put them on cruise ships!
If you get sick it's like winning a cruise.
If you do not accept this then it is proof that you don't care if people die.
Or is there a line now?
We are all Boxcar Willie now.
I am Laslo.
I'd like to "smart" quarantine the NYT, all the idiot leftwing columnists that write for it, and maybe half of its delusional readership (not Althouse, though!).
Posted at JOM about WI voting:
I was the first voter at my polling location in Verona,WI. When doors opened about 5 in line. Usually many more people. Pretty good setup. Sanitizer as you entered, plexiglass shields for ID verification station. Nice little magnification device so they look at your drivers license without touching. Sign your name on a flat screen with stylus. Stylus wiped down after every use. Paper slip spits out and only you touch it. Go to get ballot, plex shields again, they write down sequence number from slip and give you ballot and marker. After voting ballot is scanned and you hand the markers to a worker who clean with alcohol swab. You can sanitize on way out exit door. Biggest flaw is they have everyone touch sanitizier pump on way in.
This is so typical of Prog thinking. They so very badly want to have someone in their clutches.
Not the illegal immigrant kids, though. It would be cruel to separate them from their family.
Here in Texas EVERYONE has a gun.... so try making them go to this impromptu reeducation camp.
"And yet, they came up with an idea this bad and published it!"
I am filing this one under "Guys with hammers", as in, "To a guy with a hammer, everything looks like a nail."
No thanks.
@Greg Hlatky (7:58), we have it on good authority (from Ken B.) that “denier” only applies to intelligent people when they write about global climate change. For COVID-19 the term of art is “denialist.”
At what point do we stop sacrificing for people who will not protect themselves?
Sitting at curbside pickup at a restaurant the other day, I was amused to see that the car next to me had an ancient woman with a tube in her nose riding shotgun. Who knows what the story is, maybe it was absolutely necessary for her to be out, but I'm glad that we are all enduring this so someone can take his 90 year old mother and her oxygen tank with him when he picks up some takeout enchiladas.
Run far far away from anything with Smart in the name.
Isolate the families together at home. My friend’s husband, a physician got Covid first, before he knew he had it he infected his wife, they both tested positive and she became pretty sick, but they managed their symptoms at home. Luckily he recovered more quickly than she did, (she is pregnant) and was able to take care of her. She needed supplemental O2 and is finally now doing better. The three kids didn’t get sick or had very mild symptoms that it hasn’t become evident they have had it. The kids weren’t tested.
If they think my husband and I would let them haul our small children who "don't feel well" to government internment camps for two weeks (sure sure, just 2 weeks!) they'd have to walk over our dead bodies to get at them.
@Jessica (8:12), the Democrats would be perfectly okay with walking over your dead bodies to get at your children. It has to be made clear to them that their bled-out bodies would also be laying on the ground.
Why is it “smart”? That’s just a marketing label. Althouse disposes of it pretty quickly here.
During SARS we had a person who would have been taken to a facility under this plan. Instead she stayed home, wore a mask, and kept 4 feet away from everyone. We kept the grandparents away entirely.
"If God dwells inside us, like some people say, I sure hope he likes enchiladas, because that's what he's getting." -- Handey
A WHO official stated yesterday that it might be necessary to forcibly remove an infected family member from the home and force into quarantine. :-O They'd better not try that here. We are, shall we say, well fortified.
Just yesterday, YESTERDAY, hack lefty "reporter" Jonathan Karl of ABC News who happens to be the current head of the White House Correspondents Association, invited in as a guest reporter to question our President, a "reporter" who works for a Hong Kong based, ChiCom owned "news" outlet that is literally run by a "former" CCP Propaganda officer.
The CCP propagandists arent even trying to hide it anymore.
Consider they kicked out an American reporter (OAN) of Asian decent and imported a professional communist propagandist all the ways from Hong Kong.
Trump was all over it. Today he fired his press secretary.
What a stupid plan. How does this work with families with small children? What if one parent is considered essential personnel and has to keep going into work? What about a single parent with multiple small children? What about a nursing mother?
Why are you collecting lots of people (most of whom will test negative) and putting them together with at least a few people who will turn out to have the disease? Sounds like a great way to get a super spreader event.
Or is the idea every single one of these people has their own private accommodations? That doesn't even sound plausible. Where on earth are all these private accommodations and medical personnel going to come from? We don't have the spare resources to be monitoring 10's of millions of Americans right now who would otherwise just be sitting at home, but are now going to require an enormous investment in resources and medical personnel if even one of them so much as gets a cold.
We are all Boxcar Willie now.
Here's why you shouldn't take Boxcar Willies's name in vain: The Wreck of Old 97
There is no way to top BUMBLE BEE's first comment, so I won't say anything other than to give it the props it deserves.
not suspicious at all
Neither Planned Parenthood nor Planned Parent has to be cause of excess deaths.
Empowering and protecting your family during the COVID19 pandemic
- Dr. David Price, Weill Cornell Medical Center
* social distancing (3 ft)
* hand to face hygiene
* coexisting with people (especially in close proximity) who are infected, who have the disease
* when to visit the hospital (e.g. resource management), and triage (e.g. telemedical services)
Bottom-line: We don't have to shut down the country. We should avoid spreading a social contagion. There are rational and reasonable steps to take in order to mitigate infection, respond to disease, to manage resources, and to mitigate collateral damage.
"And yet, they came up with an idea this bad and published it!"
They operate from a core belief that "they. we" will be in charge, running he camps, placing the letters on the foreheads, and then going home to heir homes in the evening. great leap forward five year plans greater east asia co-prosperity liebenstrom all great ideas if you are the boss.....
One thing you can be sure of in these troubled times: anything labelled "smart" by the Times crowd - isn't. My favorite was "smart diplomacy," otherwise known as preemptive surrender.
Some ideas are so stupid, only intellectuals believe them.
Professora Emerita
Many of your questions were never raised by liberals when children were bused day after day for year after year.
write Harvey V. Fineberg, Jim Yong Kim, and Jordan Shlain in the NYT.
Lock this trio of fascists in a closet somewhere. We can check back with them in a couple weeks. See how they're doing.
In a smart quarantine, anyone in a family who is not well — and if you’re sheltering in place, whomever you are with is considered “family” — must get tested and be separated from the family until results return.
There's a new test out that can give "you're infected" results in as little as 5 minutes, and gives a negative "we can't find any evidence you're infected" in 13 minutes. So the "wait for results" is less time than it would take people to pack up to go off to these guys "happy fun summer camp, with showers!"
A signature feature of the Chinese Coronavirus is that it hangs on on surfaces for a long time, and because it aerosolizes well, it can get everywhere.
So they idea of taking people out of their homes and putting them in government quarantine facilities that get a constant rotation of sick people? That's a recipe for getting a lot more people sick.
If they were not aware of this, their medical "expertise" is entirely lacking.
If they did know this, and went ahead with their idea, they are evil scum.
There is no reasonable metric up which this proposal can be scored as "worth making", let alone "worth trying". Mark their names. Any ideas they have in the future should be summarily rejected, because this idea is just in too much bad faith.
About the only reason i can see for making this proposal is because they want to make the Communist Chinese gov't look better.
7:58 - thanks. worth a watch.
From The Babylon Bee: Constitution Dies of Coronavirus
Fernandistein said...
People who test positive for a desire to send people to camps, tested by the toxic words they shed into the environment, should be sent to camps until they test negative.
Fernandistein wins the internet today.
Jake said...
Will they have forced labor too?
Come now, Jake, everyone knows that work will make you free
Blogger brylun said...
Dr. Oz is on tv now with deep dive data saying that no lupus patient treated with hydroxychloroquine has contracted COVID-19.
-------++++++++
Story about Dem Congress critter who got HCQ and praise Trump mentioned she has Lupus!?
I found that confusing.
Blogger stevew said...The problem with experts, they are good at thinking and planning...4/7/20, 6:33 AM
You're 100% correct! I've seen that in my former job during Vietnam. Military combat operations are wonderful plans on paper and in the mind of Generals and their Planners. But only the Combat People tasked with carrying out these plans know for to well that 'the enemy' has a vote. Never seen plan which lives to see the light of day once confronted with real life. We are now beginning to see all of these Experts plans on Coronavirus falling flat, because this Virus is not acting the way they planned.
Anecdotal - but I have noticed a change in people over the past couple of days when I'm out walking. During the first week of shutdown, people were cheerful, greeted each other, remarked what a nice day it was, etc Yesterday, when I said hi to people on the bike path, they grimly nodded or didn't reply. I see people sort of listlessly trudging now rather than striding. The novelty of being able to take a walk on a weekday afternoon has worn off.
It's only April 7 and people are sick of this. My next door neighbor reported that some busybody snitch of a Karen called the cops on him because he was barbecuing in his backyard with his wife and kids.
People are tense and worried about their jobs and finances. Americans have many virtues, but patience is not one of them. I will be surprised if people don't start rebelling by the end of the week. They are certainly not going to tolerate dragging this out for another month, especially not in non-hot spot areas.
The last 10 days have seen a plateau in testing all over the US and Europe. I suspect that people are starting to reject getting tested. A plan like this would result in a 90% drop in test sample submission. One of the remarkable things of the last month is the revelation of the complete lack of common sense of our "experts".
Mmmmmmmmmmmm Enchiladas
Meanwhile, here in SF..... "smart quarantine" means the local population of "unhoused" - read: junkies, mentally ill, and bums - get to go to the posh Mark Hopkins or InterContinental hotels and hole up with provided meals and other amenities. These are places most average people in SF can't afford to stay in (yes, there are still average people in the city; I see them at Mass every week). And then the hotels get to rehab their properties on the taxpayers' dime. Sweet!
I've read many times over how elites look down their noses at many Americans for having a healthy distrust of so-called "experts". This is why.
Bob Boyd "Run far far away from anything with Smart in the name." Except Smarties candy. I really like those.
From the Worldometer page for April 6:
"Given the low testing rates throughout the country, we assume that one in ten cases are tested and reported. If a county has detected only one case of COVID-19, there is a 51% chance that there is already a growing outbreak underway."
Source
So, the Powers That Be still forecast Armageddon.
Part of the problem is we -- the collective "we" -- feel powerless before this virus, with no vaccine and no treatment. Most of the time "we" feel pretty smug about colds and the flu. They are longtime "neighbors" with known risks and remedies. Not so with COVID-19, so the fear is understandable.
But there are treatments showing promise, and this should increase our confidence.
I hope the Trump administration listens to smart people like this guy instead of the clowns advocating "smart" quarantine.
Put them on cruise ships!
Great idea! Surely, some of the potentially sick are capable of doing the day-to-day work. I find the daily room cleaning (at sea and in hotels) a bit creepy. I'd much prefer NOT to have a steward; a laundry bag for pickup would be more than sufficient. I'd be happy to bus tables or mop floors for a free cruise.
The actual "crew" crew could have the fancy cabins on the top and get room service.
In two weeks, one can go quite a ways. We crossed the Atlantic in under seven days. It was a two week cruise, but there were stops, which are presumably out of the question for these plague ships.
Dr. Oz is on FoxNews now touting hydroxychloroquine, and with about 14,000 lupus patients taking the drug, none has been infected with COVID-19. He still calls this information anecdotal, because medicine requires double blind studies.
No idea if this is fake news or not but the local TV is reporting people going to houses offering masks. Which are now required in PR. They claim to be from Dept of Health and have ID.
They insist that the homeowner try on the mask. When the do, cloroform (or something) in the mask knocks the person out. Then they rob the house.
A quick search of the principal newspaper turns up nothing, though.
Before anyone else says "Sounds bogus", let me say, sounds bogus.
John Henry
Blogger Kevin said...
Whenever I hear about "herd immunity" I know that person thinks of us as cattle.
How about "group immunity"?
Or, to be hip and get in with the kool kidz, "Community immunity" Comim for short.
John Henry
"It's interesting that the NYT doesn't have a comments section for this one."
They do now. The "Reader Picks" that I sampled go from "this is stupid and won't work" to blaming you-know-who for everything.
As they say on the playground: "you first"!
DavidUW said...Some ideas are so stupid, only intellectuals believe them.
We have much to thank George Orwell for.
I can't bear to read the article. Do they explain why a more strict quarantine wouldn't just resemble the classic quarantine, where all the members of the household are restricted to their own home for fourteen days?
>>A WHO official stated yesterday that it might be necessary to forcibly remove an infected family member from the home and force into quarantine.
Don't send anybody you want back.
"herd immunity", "group immunity", "Community immunity"
Sparse contagion. Perhaps "reduced viability", with respect to the virus, which will have a progressive life as its evolutionary paths and safe sanctuaries are narrow and selected, respectively.
Weren't we just talking about really smart people you wouldn't want to be in charge of anything? It was very nice of these folks to offer themselves as such timely examples.
Wince said...
"Children in cages" would be child's play.
"Children in Cages" should be a Broadway musical.
I take NO advice from the NYT; the WaPoo, too.
"Do they explain why a more strict quarantine wouldn't just resemble the classic quarantine, where all the members of the household are restricted to their own home for fourteen days?"
Yes.
Darkisland said...
No idea if this is fake news or not but the local TV is reporting people going to houses offering masks. Which are now required in PR. They claim to be from Dept of Health and have ID.
They insist that the homeowner try on the mask. When the do, cloroform (or something) in the mask knocks the person out. Then they rob the house.
A quick search of the principal newspaper turns up nothing, though.
Before anyone else says "Sounds bogus", let me say, sounds bogus.
John Henry
4/7/20, 12:20 PM
Just ignore that "odor", it is just disinfectant! Try it on, try it on!
Hydroxychloroquine needs to be given early--before lung damage. The virus is stripping iron and that is cause the breathing problems and lung damage. A 10-day (or less) course isn't going to hurt anybody.
>>Before anyone else says "Sounds bogus", let me say, sounds bogus.
"Excuse me, miss. Does this rag smell like chloroform to you?"
I'm alarmed that so many commenters at the Times think this "smart quarantine" is a good idea!
Little late to the conversation to make my first comment --
But that use of the progressive propaganda buzzword "smart" makes the whole thing not only suspect, but not even worth reading.
Invariably whenever you see this progressive "smart _____," e.g. smart growth, it ends up being the worst outcome in real life.
By the way, that is a strange kind of "firing" --
WH press secretary Stephanie Grisham is moving to become first lady Melania Trump’s chief of staff and spokesperson.
Howard: "Mmmmmmmmmmmm Enchiladas"
I'm already on it.
Thinking a green poblano pepper sauce.
Put people in concentration camps (and wash your hands of them?), call off elections - just a few of the choice proposals put forward by the Smarties among Our Betters. Fear, unacknowledged fear, does strange things to people's minds.
"This is why we have the second amendment."
Chanie, your comment reminds me of Judge Kozinski's famous dissent:
"The Second Amendment is a doomsday provision, one designed for those exceptionally rare circumstances where all other rights have failed—where the government refuses to stand for reelection and silences those who protest; where courts have lost the courage to oppose, or can find no one to enforce their decrees. However improbable these contingencies may seem today, facing them unprepared is a mistake a free people get to make only once."
None of these scenarios seem particularly far-fetched to me this afternoon.
Comrades,
There will be no forced labor in these camps. Everybody will be paid a $15 per hour living wage. Everybody will be required to work 12 hour days with appropriate time off for lunch and other breaks.
Room and board will be decreased from $125 per day to $177.99 per day, tax included, to reflect the higher minimum wage.
Everything will be recycled and planet friendly. Any resident in arrears will be able to pay their residual bill from future earnings. Those who pass away can repay their bills with their gold fillings, or useful clothing.
Darkisland said...to be hip and get in with the kool kidz, "Community immunity" Comim for short.
--
Viral Co-op.
Hey, how about, you know, an island.
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/05/when-the-last-patient-dies/394163/
"Dr. Oz is on FoxNews now touting hydroxychloroquine, and with about 14,000 lupus patients taking the drug, none has been infected with COVID-19."
Tony the C, AKA Dr. Anthony Cardillo, says HCQ works best with zinc. He says the HCQ opens the zinc channels in the cells, but its the zinc that actually stops the virus reproducing. He says that the patients he has treated were "very, very ill" and were "basically symptom-free in 8 to 12 hours".
If they will start trying this, instead of watching people die on ventilators while they mumble about "double-blind, controlled clinical studies", we can end the lockdown soon. I mean, like, Friday.
All these supposedly "smart" people with medical training don't understand that the clinical testing regime that is appropriate to ensure the efficacy of a treatment for toenail fungus is not indicated when the economy is shut down by Plague.
If they will start trying this, instead of watching people die on ventilators while they mumble about "double-blind, controlled clinical studies", we can end the lockdown soon. I mean, like, Friday.
Not that I'm not taking this pandemic very seriously but I'm also not naive enough to think the Dems/Media [and this includes Fauci and Birx] don't want to collapse the economy in time for the election in November or at least to undo all the positive things Trump has done. This is a veritable gift for them.
OK. Just read the piece. Sorry.
I agree, Americans won't do this. So it's not "smart." Nor does it use this to force a general reopening of the economy. Not smart. I revise my previous endorsement.
But we do need a smarter quarantine, of at-risk people in their homes, with support. Old people! Sick people! Stay out of the way! Out of the stores! Off the trails! Away from cute grandkid! No more hugs! Rigorous separation is still the answer.
bumble bee.
Their fervent hope. Their worst nightmare.
This is pure fantasy. We are only testing 10 to 20 percent of people who turn up at the ER with Corona symptoms, because we are short of tests, short of swabs, short of PPE, short of personnel willing to conduct tests.
Basically, unless you are sick enough to be hospitalized, are over 70, or have had known contact with a person who tested positive- your chances of getting tested are very slim.
Smart quarantines don’t work without tests, and in any case they don’t work well at all when half of those infected are asymptomatic.
I do agree that the lockdowns need to end. Just delays the inevitable. The only solution to this is a vaccine or herd immunity. If we don’t think we are going to get a vaccine in the Fall (just as peak flu season kicks off), we are better off lifting restrictions (except for those old or sick) and allowing more people to be exposed to the virus during the summer when it should be less transmissible and milder. This would spread out the curve and reduce the burden on hospitals during flu season.
Threeamigo states...."...If we don’t think we are going to get a vaccine in the Fall..." My friend none of the purported vaccines for SARS and MERS were effective. The body has its own ability to fight this virus. Why do you think that 90% + recover from this virus without a vaccine. As I mentioned before, bet anything that after this event is behind us we will find out that Covid-19 is no more deadly than the common cold. In fact, the 'real numbers' are now putting the so - called 'Government Scientists' projections to shame. It gives new meaning to it's close enough for 'government work'.
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