Althouse: At the Sunrise Café...

April 1, 2020

At the Sunrise Café...

56AF5277-074F-448C-94D8-55C3AE7AE4FE_1_201_a

... you can talk 'til daybreak.

170 comments:

narciso said...: Trek has the obligatory vietnam analogy episode.; 4/1/20, 7:53 PM
Howard said...: "Mr President, we must not allow a mine shaft gap!"; 4/1/20, 7:59 PM
traditionalguy said...: Came across an inspiring new book by a Scots Irish woman named Cassie Chambers:Hill Woman. She reads it on Audible. Courageous people like her always touch me.; 4/1/20, 8:02 PM
Josephbleau said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 4/1/20, 8:03 PM
Milwaukie guy said...: I just got news that a friend of mine is on his Covid-19 death bed and a new DNR is in place. I don't write anything on the internet other than what I post here.

So, here's to Steve B.

Steve was a history teacher in rural Oregon and active in his church. I met him just nine years ago when I got involved in the 1st Oregon/20th Maine volunteer infantry, our Civil War hobby.

Steve had been doing it for some 30 years, serving in every rank including the Union battalion Colonel. He was one of my mentors in Civil War re-enacting arcana. As he got older, he was mostly our bugler and as Sgt. Major, I was alongside him many times.

He was also a musician and a member of the Third Brigade Band, which played 1800's period music at many civic functions downstate.

He was also a leader of SUV, Sons of Union Veterans, who did many field days at middle and high schools teaching our children about their heritage.

There are a surprising amount of Union veteran's graves in Oregon, considering. Obviously, a lot of vets went west after the war. Steve and the SUV were always available to get in uniform, get a few riflemen and play bugle for ceremonies at Oregon's many pioneer cemeteries.

His friends, god-fearing or not, are all praying for a miracle but those are always in short supply. I salute you Steve B. and I will miss you.; 4/1/20, 8:03 PM
MadisonMan said...: Not a big fan of Dixon Hill. Oh this is the one where Worf's arm is mysteriously broken and healed.; 4/1/20, 8:06 PM
MadisonMan said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 4/1/20, 8:08 PM
Jaq said...: Sorry about your friend MilwaukieGuy.; 4/1/20, 8:12 PM
Ken B said...: Nice post Milwaukee Guy. Sorry to hear.; 4/1/20, 8:18 PM
Josephbleau said...: I came home the other day to self isolate. My wife said “I now have an HSP.....So your going to have to sleep on the couch.”

I went to the store to buy some things, a guy gave me a pack of toilet paper, he said “you need it more than me pal.”

I don’t get no respect.; 4/1/20, 8:19 PM
Francisco D said...: My condolences MilwaukeeGuy.

Anyone else on this blog have people who are suffering from coronavirus exposure or COVID-19?; 4/1/20, 8:21 PM
narciso said...: Condolescences milwaukee guy; 4/1/20, 8:24 PM
Kathryn51 said...: Milwaukee Pal, thank you for describing a life well-spent.

At this point, I think the worst tragedy of this disease is that family is not allowed to be there at the end. (not sure what the situation is with your friend). The whole point of hospice care - end of life care - is that family can spend time with their loved one. When I read about the numbers indicating that a high proportion of deaths are with folks with sever underlying conditions, I wonder if - given the choice - they would choose to die with family surrounding them rather than alone on some mechanical means that probably isn't going to save them.; 4/1/20, 8:28 PM
Jaq said...: This here comment is old guy stuff, so none of you young'uns need to read it.

The other day I was posting about a certain ancestor that I thought was a Palatine refugee. Well, I went to the source of the history I was reading, which was an earlier history, and got a far more detailed version of his story. It turns out according to this history that he was Dutch, and his father was a follower of Prince Rupert, probably a cavalry soldier, and had “followed him to Scotland following the English Civil War” <<-- I am not sure that this is right because I don’t know if Rupert ever went to Scotland after the English Civil War. It might just be speculation because the guy I am interested in came over with Robert Livingston, who was a Scot, but they easily might have met in Holland where Robert’s father was banished to from England for refusing to sign a loyalty oath. I think after the Restoration, Prince Rupert became involved in British naval affairs and was a big shot in the Hudson Bay Company, Rupert’s Land is named for him. Unfortunately, the book the author lists as his source is no longer extent, but I think there might be a copy of it in a certain university library among the writer's personal papers. I am sorry I am being so coy, but I am not really willing to put my full name up here, and since you already know my first name..., well, that’s how it is.

Certainly Dutch soldiers fought with Prince Rupert. I did find one original source document in the form of a letter from a representative of the Crown in Colonial New York that validates another part of the story. So anyway, I guess this Prince Rupert is another character in that 1632 series which now I really have to read.

So my historical epic starts with the English Civil War, Netherlands during the Golden Age, over to colonial New York, the French and Indian War, the Revolution, The War of 1812, possibly, I have something I don’t understand concerning on ancestor that I think might point that way, through the Civil War, certainly, and up to modern day.

It sounds like a perfect ‘old man project'; 4/1/20, 8:32 PM
CStanley said...: @ Francisco-
My mother has tested positive but is so far asymptomatic. She is 84 and lives in an assisted living facility in New Orleans, was tested because of exposure to an infected nurse.; 4/1/20, 8:32 PM
CStanley said...: Sorry to hear about your friend Milwaukee guy. I’ll pray for a miracle.; 4/1/20, 8:34 PM
Kathryn51 said...: This country now needs an Exit Plan.

Jake Novak (CNBC contributor) posted this morning: America Needs a Lockdown-ending Checklist

Dana Perino said the same thing on Tucker's show tonight. She proposed creating a NEW "commission" that would help move to ending this.

Dr. Faulci scares me - if I heard him correctly today, he said that the CDC guidelines shouldn't end until we were at zero deaths. We will NEVER get there.; 4/1/20, 8:37 PM
Jaq said...: Incidentally, those letters to “The Company” have lots of interesting details, incidents, issues of the time.; 4/1/20, 8:38 PM
narciso said...: Fascinating tim, yes some of this material is online but most probably ismt; 4/1/20, 8:40 PM
narciso said...: Novak is a rare source of sanity at cnbc.; 4/1/20, 8:43 PM
Jaq said...: narciso, When the lockdown ends, I am going to do some traveling around in the RV, currently my mobile isolation unit, to visit some libraries and the Library of Congress.; 4/1/20, 8:43 PM
Jaq said...: I say it ends when we aren’t using the scoring system of “ethicists” to decide who lives and dies because the hospitals are too overwhelmed to treat everybody. After that a lockdown is pointless. That day may be soon, especially if these drug treatments pan out if applied early.; 4/1/20, 8:50 PM
hawkeyedjb said...: Thanks for your story, Milwaukie Guy. It talks of things that are important. Life and loss are important. The good things in life are fleeting. It's good to remember them. We go onward, and we don't know who will be going with us. We don't know who will be going on without us. I don't believe in an afterlife, except in our friends and family who remember us. It's good of you to remember your friend, and to tell us about him. Now he will live on.; 4/1/20, 8:53 PM
Rick said...: Milwaukie guy said...

That's a good eulogy.; 4/1/20, 9:02 PM
charis said...: Lovely photo. Water, sky, thin strip of land. Nice use of rule of thirds. Peaceful.; 4/1/20, 9:03 PM
mockturtle said...: Milwaukee guy: I'm very sorry to hear about your friend's condition. :-(; 4/1/20, 9:03 PM
mockturtle said...: It appears that the CDC director has tested positive. Didn't he follow his own guidelines? Sorry to be snarky but the CDC under his direction has been FUBAR and got the US off to a slow and wobbly approach to this fight.; 4/1/20, 9:07 PM
Mark said...: The movie discussion yesterday got me to thinking of a couple of surreal French films that I've seen on TCM, but didn't know who made them.

After some sleuthing, I've learned the filmmaker was Jacques Tati and the movies were PlayTime and Mon Oncle.

Almost no dialogue and no real story, only scenes of mostly this one character in a trench coat with a pipe and umbrella going around seeing bizarre things and doing weirdness.; 4/1/20, 9:10 PM
Narr said...: Condolences to tim, and several other commenters who have referenced tragedy recently, C-19 or not.

One of my old friends, Vietnam vet (MACV REMF but saw some things nonetheless), ACWABAWS re-enactor (many of my best friends are or were), wargamer, scifi fan, and good companion, is now in isolation with leishmaniasis (sp) picked up in Peru last year. Drinker, on-and-off smoker, sometime toker (in the past, anyway) . . . a whole complex of factors.

Tim, I don't know how familiar you are with the kind of research you are going to have to do, or of course when you'll be able to get to it, but narciso is right--not everything is online and what is is of very uneven quality.

See what you can get out of a visit to the NUCMC online site, in regard to the family lines, individuals, companies, military units, etc you know about. (Nuck-muck is National Union Catalog of Manuscript Collections.)

Above all, be prepared to make all the use you can of the archivists and librarians you are going to require to get you where you want to go.

And let us know how the search goes. I spent decades helping people find the sort of information you have outlined, and need to do some on my own lines, so I'm interested in the view from the other side of the desk.

Narr
LC and National Archives, must goes; 4/1/20, 9:15 PM
NCMoss said...: My favorite movie is still, "Searching for Bobby Fischer"; a good father-son film.; 4/1/20, 9:17 PM
mockturtle said...: One statistic we are seldom if ever shown is the number of deaths relative to the number of recoveries. In the US there are currently 216,000 confirmed cases, 8,593 recovered and 5,130 dead. So...where are the other 202,277? In the hospital? Still sick?; 4/1/20, 9:17 PM
narciso said...: I thought leishmaniasis was a middle eastern thing,; 4/1/20, 9:18 PM
Mark said...: "Don't move until you see it."; 4/1/20, 9:25 PM
Kathryn51 said...: Re: Exit strategy.

WA state was first to address Covid-19. Tech companies instructed employees to work from home, if possible. Major focus on hygiene. This began before gov't edicts.

According to IHME, we will hit "peak" fatality on April 13th - one of the first states to hit "peak". Many of these fatalities (75%? 90%?) would have perished this year anyway from pneumonia or flu. . What then? Do we still prohibit gyms from opening (RBG is privileged, apparently). My hair stylist works out of her home - one person at a time - she can't open until June?? I'll give Inslee credit for starting early - but knowing him, he will be frozen in place and won't be the 1st to relax, even thought WA numbers are looking much better.; 4/1/20, 9:26 PM
Mark said...: "Don't move until you see it."; 4/1/20, 9:27 PM
Ken B said...: Turtle
Three possible states once you get it. Active, recovered, dead.; 4/1/20, 9:28 PM
Jaq said...: Narr, I had one stroke of luck in that a famous nineteenth century historian was descended of the same guy, which is why his life was so well researched, considering that he was pretty much an “extra” as far as history was concerned. But an extra with a good seat.; 4/1/20, 9:29 PM
Ken B said...: Over 5100 deaths in the USA. The curve is exponential. You can see it at worldometer.

It's not a hoax, or a mild flu, or a nothing burger.; 4/1/20, 9:31 PM
Mark said...: What's the most important thing to a Jem'Hadar and a Vorta?; 4/1/20, 9:32 PM
Mark said...: Who is the most evil character in all of Trek?; 4/1/20, 9:37 PM
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...: The guy who wrote 'Stacy's Mum' just died of the virus. Will no cultural icon be left unspared?; 4/1/20, 9:37 PM
Inga said...: “According to IHME, we will hit "peak" fatality on April 13th - one of the first states to hit "peak".”

Our peak here in Wisconsin is supposed to be April 27. An interesting site, the IHME. I check everyday, it changes.; 4/1/20, 9:38 PM
CStanley said...: One statistic we are seldom if ever shown is the number of deaths relative to the number of recoveries. In the US there are currently 216,000 confirmed cases, 8,593 recovered and 5,130 dead. So...where are the other 202,277? In the hospital? Still sick?

Many of them are, as the course of the disease seems to be quite long. Some portion though are likely to have recovered but not able to be confirmed through repeated negative tests. And then there’s the portion of positive tests who that are asymptomatic.; 4/1/20, 9:38 PM
effinayright said...: Francisco D said...
My condolences MilwaukeeGuy.

Anyone else on this blog have people who are suffering from coronavirus exposure or COVID-19?
**************

A high school classmate from long ago was one of the very few people in New Hampshire to die (so far)from COVID-19.; 4/1/20, 9:39 PM
Inga said...: “Over 5100 deaths in the USA. The curve is exponential. You can see it at worldometer.

It's not a hoax, or a mild flu, or a nothing burger.”

Uh oh Ken, you’re going to make Achilles mad.; 4/1/20, 9:39 PM
narciso said...: Colonel green was just vicious without reason, khan did have a method to his madness.; 4/1/20, 9:40 PM
Inga said...: CStanley, I’m glad to hear your mom is still asymptomatic, good news!; 4/1/20, 9:41 PM
narciso said...: The borg collectively were the most ruthless, in tng.; 4/1/20, 9:41 PM
robother said...: 80 deaths in Colorado. Not one under 40 Biggest percentages, 80 and over, and then 70-79. Even 60-69 only 1.6% death rate. And for this the entire state is shut down until April 1 (for now). Meanwhile, every retail business is ordering mass layoffs. We'll be at 30-40% unemployment by April 30. Who thinks the State Unemployment fund can meet that? But Democrat Governor gonna do what they all do. "If it only saves one life."; 4/1/20, 9:41 PM
Polyzen said...: I’m starting to see the flaw in following these “experts”. If you’ve worked in a large corporation you know that the “experts” are never in charge. They are paid for specific advice but can never see the bigger picture. A company run by experts is doomed to groupthink and circle jerks.; 4/1/20, 9:43 PM
bagoh20 said...: I don't know if anyone has said so yet, but does anyone on this blog know anybody personally who has died of COVID-19. Maybe I'm weird, but I don't know anyone, nor do I know anyone who knows anyone.; 4/1/20, 9:43 PM
mockturtle said...: Milwaukee guy just posted above that his friend is dying and is DNR with COVID-19.; 4/1/20, 9:45 PM
Mark said...: Naw. Wasn't no one on TOS.

They were not galactic war criminals bent on galactic genocide.; 4/1/20, 9:45 PM
narciso said...: One of the british health undersecretaries among others, were affected, i dont see any proof of the cdc chief; 4/1/20, 9:46 PM
Mark said...: Borg were just mindless, mostly following some kind of programing, like the Cybermen or the Replicators.; 4/1/20, 9:47 PM
mockturtle said...: CStanely: Why was your mother tested if she was asymptomatic? Had she been exposed?; 4/1/20, 9:47 PM
narciso said...: The mcdowell character in generation, he wanted to devastate whole star systems; 4/1/20, 9:49 PM
Inga said...: “I don't know if anyone has said so yet, but does anyone on this blog know anybody personally who has died of COVID-19. Maybe I'm weird, but I don't know anyone, nor do I know anyone who knows anyone.”

My pregnant family member worked in the same office as a man in his 50’s who died of Covid. She was in isolation for two weeks and thankfully is fine.; 4/1/20, 9:49 PM
narciso said...: Or f murray abrahams in insurrection, that was discovery bad; 4/1/20, 9:52 PM
Inga said...: “I don't know if anyone has said so yet, but does anyone on this blog know anybody personally who has died of COVID-19. Maybe I'm weird, but I don't know anyone, nor do I know anyone who knows anyone.”

Trump himself spoke of his friend who is in the hospital with Covid, in a coma.; 4/1/20, 9:53 PM
Mark said...: She was played by Salome Gens.

The Female Changeling.

Because of her blind hatred and distaste for humanoids, and her genocidal ambitions, she was prepared to be responsible of the death of billions of people and the destruction of hundreds of worlds in the Alpha Quadrant. Even though the Federation had practically won the war she refused to give the Dominion troops the order to surrender so that in the end, as she remarked, that victory would taste as bitter as defeat to the Federation, given the havoc that had spread in that part of the quadrant and the number of casualties.; 4/1/20, 9:54 PM
mockturtle said...: One of the british health undersecretaries among others, were affected, i dont see any proof of the cdc chief

Narciso, I can't find the source of that news bulletin now, either. MY BAD! Mea culpa, CDC director, et al.; 4/1/20, 9:55 PM
Ann Althouse said...: @ Milwaukie guy

What a noble tribute.; 4/1/20, 9:55 PM
n.n said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 4/1/20, 9:55 PM
Mark said...: "I want the Cardassians exterminated."

"Which ones?"

"All of them. The entire population."; 4/1/20, 9:55 PM
narciso said...: Its possible, leading figures in thr uk germany italy were all affected.

I guess the dominion stories didmt interest me as much.; 4/1/20, 9:57 PM
Mark said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 4/1/20, 9:58 PM
bagoh20 said...: "“Over 5100 deaths in the USA. The curve is exponential. You can see it at worldometer.

It's not a hoax, or a mild flu, or a nothing burger.”

That's for sure. With influenza deaths hitting 61,000 in 2017-2019 season this has a long way to go, but keep hope alive.; 4/1/20, 9:59 PM
narciso said...: Its like with goauld system lords some were more sympathetic than others, the ori were just totally devoid of feeling; 4/1/20, 9:59 PM
Mark said...: I don't know if anyone has said so yet, but does anyone on this blog know anybody personally who has died of COVID-19.

My friend's elderly aunt in New York who got it AT the hospital, where she was for something else.

I didn't know her personally though.

In any event, by "six degrees of separation" we all are connected to probably most of the deceased.; 4/1/20, 10:00 PM
Ken B said...: “ Who is the most evil character in all of Trek?”

Gene Roddenberry.; 4/1/20, 10:00 PM
Inga said...: So sorry Milwaukie Guy.; 4/1/20, 10:00 PM
bagoh20 said...: If Trump is on this blog, he can speak for himself?; 4/1/20, 10:01 PM
Inga said...: I don’t think he comments here Baggie.; 4/1/20, 10:02 PM
Ken B said...: Bagoh
Those of us taking the threat seriously are indeed keeping hope alive, by keeping people alive.
Denialists not so much.; 4/1/20, 10:03 PM
Mark said...: The Dominion War arc is what made DS9 the best of the Trek series.; 4/1/20, 10:04 PM
Milwaukie guy said...: I want to thank everyone for their kind thoughts. The shit got more real in my circle. The thought that there are thousands more of these stories....; 4/1/20, 10:05 PM
Ken B said...: Inga
If Trump were here he would ask Achilles why he thinks Trump's policies suck so much.; 4/1/20, 10:05 PM
bagoh20 said...: I should have read the comments before asking, but it was an honest question.; 4/1/20, 10:06 PM
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...: bagoh20 keeps harping on the same point in post after post and, to some degree, he does have a point. If we continue to take precautions, the death toll is probably not going to be all that high. So, there is no need for widespread panic. On the other hand, we do have to keep doing what we are doing or there would quickly be very good reasons to panic. The virus has us by the balls (not you Inga). It is a very odd situation.; 4/1/20, 10:06 PM
NYC JournoList said...: The obits are not yet Italy bad, but they are growing.

https://www.nytimes.com/series/people-died-coronavirus-obituaries; 4/1/20, 10:08 PM
JackWayne said...: Someone doesn’t know what exponential means. Moby!; 4/1/20, 10:08 PM
narciso said...: The conflict itself and its effect on the station, as to the dominion themselves; 4/1/20, 10:08 PM
Mark said...: It is just as well that they never did a follow-up DS9 movie to see if the Emissary ever came back to visit. Sequel movies tend to be lousy.; 4/1/20, 10:09 PM
bagoh20 said...: "Those of us taking the threat seriously are indeed keeping hope alive, by keeping people alive.
Denialists not so much."

So where were you in 2017? I guess you must have been a "denailist", now recovering.; 4/1/20, 10:09 PM
Ken B said...: ARM
Not so odd. Here is the denialists' argument in a nutshell. “You told us we would be unsafe unless we did X. We did X and now you suddenly say we are safe. You lied! “; 4/1/20, 10:09 PM
CStanley said...: @ Inga- thank you, and yes, I’ll be very grateful for each day that goes by without a change.

@mockturtle- yes, she’s been exposed. Assisted living facility, nurse became ill and tested positive so they tested all residents. At least one resident is ill and we know of one friend of my mom,s who is in the same situation that she is in (positive but asymptomatic.); 4/1/20, 10:10 PM
mockturtle said...: I want to thank everyone for their kind thoughts. The shit got more real in my circle. The thought that there are thousands more of these stories....

During the AIDS pandemic it became more real to me when some of my gay friends got sick and died. Prior to that it was kind of an abstraction.; 4/1/20, 10:11 PM
narciso said...: It was too gritty for a film treatmemt i think.; 4/1/20, 10:12 PM
mockturtle said...: CStanley, I pray your mother will remain asymptomatic. Is she in isolation in the ALF? Do they have isolation facilities?; 4/1/20, 10:13 PM
Kathryn51 said...: Inga said. .
Our peak here in Wisconsin is supposed to be April 27. An interesting site, the IHME. I check everyday, it changes.

I've decided to track three states on IHME: Washington (my state), Utah (because they have imposed very few restrictions), and Wisconsin (because Althouse). There is no way to track the "accuracy" of their predictions unless you track each day.

As I noted earlier today, yesterday, the IHME predicted 1621 fatalities in WA by August 1st. Today, their model is predicting 1233 fatalities. Hopefully, other states follow suit.; 4/1/20, 10:13 PM
Narr said...: I dislike the Kardashians as much as the next guy, but extermination?

Seems extreme.

As to leishmaniasis, all I know is what I was told. They went to Tanzania in January but apparently he had the bite/infection on his elbow from the previous trip to Peru . . .

Narr
And so to bed; 4/1/20, 10:15 PM
CStanley said...: Their apartments are their “isolation facilities.”; 4/1/20, 10:15 PM
mockturtle said...: Where is ICTA? Where is buwaya?; 4/1/20, 10:16 PM
narciso said...: Different type of alien species, tanzania makes more sense.; 4/1/20, 10:16 PM
mockturtle said...: Their apartments are their “isolation facilities.”

Yes, that's true. But she probably has to take her meals in her room, now, and the staff must gown, mask and glove up if they go into her room, right? And no visitors?; 4/1/20, 10:18 PM
Charlie Currie said...: I don't post here often, but I read the comments regularly and find them interesting and enlightening.

Anyway, my son, who is 35,_has been down with flu symptoms for about three weeks. He had a low grade fever - 100.2 range - and a bad cough, aches and pains.

Under the current guidelines, he wasn't yet eligible for testing, but because his partner is pregnant and a nurse, he was prioritized and got tested a week or so ago. Yesterday the results came back positive for the chicom wuhan plague. Fortunately, he is now in the recovery mode - fever is gone and didn't cough at all today. He was told, three more days with no symptoms and he can come out of quarantine. Fingers crossed.; 4/1/20, 10:18 PM
bagoh20 said...: " If we continue to take precautions, the death toll is probably not going to be all that high."

I envy your position. You can't lose, but nobody said don't take precautions. I take lots of them, all day long. I even worry about it - probably more than you.; 4/1/20, 10:19 PM
walter said...: CBS DNC convention talk; 4/1/20, 10:19 PM
Chuck said...: Howard said...
"Mr President, we must not allow a mine shaft gap!"

I've been thinking about this for days. Except of course in "Dr. Strangelove," the President was calm and rational. A couple of the generals were nuts.

I listen to Trump at his unhinged, rambling pressers and I actually expect to hear him talk about the impurification of our precious bodily fluids.; 4/1/20, 10:19 PM
narciso said...: Good news charles currie.; 4/1/20, 10:21 PM
Milwaukie guy said...: I remember when the first person I knew died from AIDS. It was so early we still referred to it as "the slim." My sister-in-law worked in the LA County AIDS clinic. Burned her out. She got to know too many who died. There are many, many sad stories from that pandemic, too.; 4/1/20, 10:21 PM
Inga said...: “Where is ICTA? Where is buwaya?”

I noticed a few regular commenters are missing. I haven’t seen “Seeing Red” comment at all in the last few weeks. If Buwaya is in Spain, he might’ve been safer staying in San Francisco.; 4/1/20, 10:22 PM
mockturtle said...: Charlie: And his partner? Did she get tested?; 4/1/20, 10:22 PM
bagoh20 said...: "Those of us taking the threat seriously are indeed keeping hope alive, by keeping people alive."

Thank you for your service and sacrifice.; 4/1/20, 10:22 PM
Ray - SoCal said...: Yes, I am spending way to much time figuring out the CA Testing SNAFU. I just found this morning another article, The Atlantic, that tries to Whitewash it, sigh.

As a CA resident, I am worried!

Private Labs Are Fueling a New Coronavirus Testing Crisis
The Atlantic

Alexis C. Madrigal - Wrote book on Green Technology
Robinson Meyer - Climate Change & Technology
March 31, 2020

Stuff I agree with the article on:

1. California has a back log of about 60,000 CoronaVirus Tests
2. CA is now up to about 2,000 tests a day, from 1,000 a week ago
3. Quest Diagnostics has a lab in San Juan Capistrano that is doing much of the testing
4. NY is doing 16,000 tests a day
5. CA is behind other states on testing

Site that has good statistics:
https://covidtracking.com/data#state-CA

Strange Stuff:
1. Article seems to be blaming private test labs for back log
2. If you do a Control F, no mention of California's Governor
3. No mention of WHY the number of tests done in CA has not increased, as other states have
4. If Quest Changed over to the Roche Test that takes 45 minutes, why no increase in the number of tests done?
5. Why no mention of the 150,000 test kits the CA bought from HK per Gov. Newsom? https://calmatters.org/health/2020/03/california-coronavirus-test-results-delayed-backlog/
6. No mention that at the current through put, of 2,000 test a day, it would take 30 days to process the tests. Backlog is from a week ago., March 26, 2020. Seems to me pretty soon those test results would be useless?
7. Says testing is being prioritized due to Trump, for Medical Personal. I take this as an attempt to blame Trump for this mess.
8. Little mention of how the CDC and FDA screwed up the initial testing. They do link to an Atlantic Article that is very good on the subject by a different author - https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/03/why-coronavirus-testing-us-so-delayed/607954/
9. No mention of shortage of key chemicals.
https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/03/12/coronavirus-shortage-of-key-chemical-limits-tests-and-detection/; 4/1/20, 10:24 PM
n.n said...: Utah has voluntary restrictions and guidance.

Empowering and protecting your family during the COVID19 pandemic
- Dr. David Price, Weill Cornell Medical Center

* social distancing (3 ft)
* hand to face hygiene
* coexisting with people (especially in close proximity) who are infected, who have the disease
* when to visit the hospital (e.g. resource management), and triage (e.g. telemedical services)

Bottom-line: We don't have to shut down the country. We should avoid spreading a social contagion. There are rational and reasonable steps to take in order to mitigate infection, respond to disease, to manage resources, and to mitigate collateral damage.

But Democrat Governor gonna do what they all do. "If it only saves one life."

Not one or a million lives and collateral damage. Well, some Democrats are showing some signs of progress in a positive direction. Next: a review of globalism (e.g. shortages), immigration reform (e.g. transmission), communities without borders (e.g. anti-nativism), and planned parenthood (e.g. selective-child).; 4/1/20, 10:24 PM
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...: bagoh20 said...
I envy your position. You can't lose

We are all losers here. If we don't die, or lose someone we love, we lose financially. Only a few hedge fund owners will come out of this as net winners.; 4/1/20, 10:27 PM
bagoh20 said...: “ Who is the most evil character in all of Trek?”

Tribble # 1,276,342.; 4/1/20, 10:28 PM
CStanley said...: @ mockturtle- they implemented a lockdown about 2 weeks ago with all meals in rooms, no visitors (my brother and his family can go to the fence and she can visit from an open exterior door. Staff has been wearing masks and gloves and if she leaves her room she does also. She has a dog so she has to go in and out, but I’m not clear on whether they will have staff begin doing that or trust her to continue doing it.; 4/1/20, 10:28 PM
mockturtle said...: I remember when the first person I knew died from AIDS. It was so early we still referred to it as "the slim." My sister-in-law worked in the LA County AIDS clinic. Burned her out. She got to know too many who died. There are many, many sad stories from that pandemic, too.

Yes, Milwaukee guy, it was awful just watching them wasting away and feeling so helpless to help them. One was a hairdresser and he continued to work as long as he could though he was just skin and bones. His clients were loyal.; 4/1/20, 10:29 PM
cacimbo said...: I have three close friends who have Coronavirus, another seven members of their families are also ill. All have had for at least one to two weeks. Most had no or mild (100%) fever. All described initially thinking they just had allergies.At least four of them lost their sense of taste and smell. One is almost fully recovered. Two just went to doctor and got z-packs and inhaler because their breathing became uncomfortable. Fortunately none have felt bad enough to require a visit to the hospital and should be past the worst.

Now that we know so many people that have tested positive, my friends and neighbors all suspect this is much much more widespread than people realize. Especially since fever is given as a sure sign - yet most of them didn't have a fever. In the NYC area it is almost impossible to get tested. Friend on Long Island has been on the waiting list for Jones Beach test site for over a week. On Staten Island, if you do manage to get tested at a drive through site you wait 7-10 days for your results.The only people I know who have managed to get tested are emergency responders.

Very sorry to hear about Milwaukie guy's friend, but please remember most do recover.; 4/1/20, 10:29 PM
Mark said...: Sorry your son went through that Charlie C. Yet, it is also a relief to hear the stories of where it was not as bad as it could have been.

Happy he's now doing well.; 4/1/20, 10:30 PM
mockturtle said...: CStanley, sounds like a good facility. :-); 4/1/20, 10:30 PM
narciso said...: Evil has to an act of will, as you point out so borg dont count.; 4/1/20, 10:31 PM
Mark said...: My brother's family in Michigan is recovering from it now -- brother and sister-in-law in their 50s and three kids in their 20s. They were not tested, but they fit all the symptoms, including loss of smell and taste. They are on the tail end of it, believing that one of the kids might have been exposed in early March during a trip to the gym.; 4/1/20, 10:33 PM
bagoh20 said...: I guy in Southern California got fined $1000 for surfing alone. Pretty hard to beat that for social distancing, and bathing in disinfectant at the same time.; 4/1/20, 10:33 PM
Mark said...: Watching a report about Biden's campaign politicizing the crisis when challenged to offer something helpful.; 4/1/20, 10:34 PM
n.n said...: Says testing is being prioritized due to Trump, for Medical Personal.

This is a priority because medical staff are the centers of redistributive change. Poor hygiene, mainly. They are also being tasked with responding to the patient bloom forced by spreaders of social contagion, and statistics that conflate official estimates, journolistic publications, and inferential adjustments to match what is expected.; 4/1/20, 10:38 PM
Mark said...: Voyager the other day had the episode where three members of Seven's matrix who became separated from the collective are still suffering because their minds and thoughts are all linked between the three of them. Turns out that it was Seven who did it to them.

She feels guilty about it, and at least one of them blames her. But it really wasn't her who did it, that is, Annika, it was the Borg that did it to them.; 4/1/20, 10:39 PM
CStanley said...: CStanley, sounds like a good facility. :-)

It’s a nice place, but most of that was mandated and I’m not sure how good of a job they are doing. Clearly the nurse spread infection, but I don’t know if it could have been avoided or not.

In any case it’s a really tough situation. For most residents it’s a very lonely existence even in normal circumstances.; 4/1/20, 10:41 PM
Mark said...: Evil is the result of choice of the will.; 4/1/20, 10:41 PM
Inga said...: USS Theodore Roosevelt commander says entire crew needs to be isolated after 200 positive coronavirus tests

“Three sailors on board the aircraft carrier tested positive last week, the first time the outbreak infected a deployed U.S. warship at sea.”

Now 200.; 4/1/20, 10:42 PM
Mark said...: Frankly, unless you really need an operation or intubation or something drastic like that, the hospital is one of the worst places to be.

My late stepmother got MRSA in the lungs during a stint in the hospital.; 4/1/20, 10:45 PM
n.n said...: She got to know too many who died. There are many, many sad stories from that pandemic, too.

The politically congruent ("=") denied the pathway that left trans/homo males vulnerable to HIV infection and at elevated risk to contract the AIDS disease. It was politically expedient to ignore the "burden" of their chosen interaction and social liberally behavior, but at the cost of several hundred thousand lives. Perhaps that's why they forced normalization of "married" couplets under exemption of selective, opportunistic, and exclusive, a Pro-Choice doctrine.; 4/1/20, 10:46 PM
Charlie Currie said...: "mockturtle said...
Charlie: And his partner? Did she get tested?"

I believe so - but we're in CA and the tests take forever to come back. Naturally, they have been extremely careful - masks and staying in separate rooms. So far she has had no symptoms and its been plenty long enough for them to show up.

Fingers crossed.; 4/1/20, 10:49 PM
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...: Milwaukie guy said...
I remember when the first person I knew died from AIDS. It was so early we still referred to it as "the slim." My sister-in-law worked in the LA County AIDS clinic. Burned her out. She got to know too many who died. There are many, many sad stories from that pandemic, too.

That was a more terrifying thing, because no one knew the cause for quite a while. At first, the AIDS patients all died from some other infection. I had a friend, who was 17, die very early in the plague. It was only in retrospect that I understood what had happened. In the current plague we had the complete sequence of the virus within a few weeks. Diagnostic tests in most countries were up and running before there were many cases to test. We know exactly what we are dealing with. There is surprisingly little uncertainty, we argue about modest differences in the death rate, not the fundamental cause of the disease.; 4/1/20, 10:50 PM
n.n said...: Frankly, unless you really need an operation or intubation or something drastic like that, the hospital is one of the worst places to be.

It's a petri dish with poor hygiene, a hub for redistributive change, and limited capacity for physical isolation.

“Three sailors on board the aircraft carrier tested positive last week, the first time the outbreak infected a deployed U.S. warship at sea.”

They need to determine the source of the Wuhan virus (SARS-CoV-2) and trace its path in order to isolate spreaders and mitigate its progress.; 4/1/20, 10:52 PM
Charlie Currie said...: I've read that two of the risk factors are: 1 male and 2 type A blood. My son - male, obviously - and type A.

I'm O and the wife is A. She doesn't leave the house except to walk the dog.; 4/1/20, 10:55 PM
Mark said...: Just now -- the Doctor, in command of Voyager, successfully pulls off the corbomite maneuver.; 4/1/20, 10:56 PM
Freeman Hunt said...: May we all be so lucky to have friends who will speak of us the way Milwaukie guy speaks of Steve B.

Praying your friend pulls through. Sounds like a most excellent guy.; 4/1/20, 10:58 PM
Milwaukie guy said...: Now I'm thinking about the AIDS thing.

During the 80s and 90s we had three siblings in different households on the block. But first, a digression.

Their parents lived above Dan Rostenkowski's 35th Ward office. Mr. D was a building inspector and Mrs. D was hired to keep the ward office clean and, as it turns out, was kicking back part of her salary into the Dem party. Mrs. D got swept up in the G's investigation of the Rostenkowski corruption machine.

There were like 17 Federal indictments, Rosty and 16 little people. Rosty kept holding out and people like Mrs. D were freaking out. Finally, Rosty took the plea, did the time and the little people got off. I honor him for finally becoming a stand-up guy, plus the snagging of $250 million Federal pork to upgrade the Science and Industry Museum.

Anyway, on the block was Cindy, a hot blonde with two kids and an idiot husband; David, worked at the water filtration plant, a complete queen who'd dress up as Barbara Bush in blue dress and pearls; and Marty, who had a girlfriend but was obviously Q.

Marty used to go on bike rides to Boys Town in short-shorts with a handkerchief in either the top or bottom pocket. We be sitting with the older Yugoslavian-German neighbor with the Italian last name on the stoop and she'd ask, "When do you think Marty's going to come out?" It's like Marty was the last one to know.

My wife and I, with Cindy, still saw Marty and his boyfriend after they moved over to Boy Town where the parking was terrible. One time the five of us were having brunch talking about AIDS and I asked, given what we know now about AIDs, why are you guys still butt-fucking? Why not just do oral sex or something?

They looked at me, but they know I can be a rude boy, and said, it's because of greater intimacy. I thought for a second and was, well sure. I get it.

Sometimes, love conquers all.; 4/1/20, 11:03 PM
Yancey Ward said...: "Don't move until you see it."

There are players who can play 20+ simultaneous games blind-folded. That seems like magic to me.; 4/1/20, 11:04 PM
chuck said...: So...where are the other 202,277? In the hospital? Still sick?

Recovery stats seem to lag diagnosis by about three weeks. Most folks are sent home to quarantine (there have been some of those in my county), and some are hospitalized. In Utah we have had 1,012 tested positive, 91 have been hospitalized, and no reported recoveries yet. I expect the first couple of recoveries to show up this week, but they were visitors. Utah is expected to peak in about three weeks. So far there have been about 1100 flu related hospitalizations this flu season. I expect we will have more that that in hospitals during the covid-19 peak. The vaccine has been relatively effective this year.

People are isolating well, more are wearing masks, and our projections have improved.; 4/1/20, 11:06 PM
Etienne said...: I suspect the USS Roosevelt has more STD cases than Wuhan Bat Flu.

As long as they don't drop their soap, everyone should be safe.; 4/1/20, 11:06 PM
narciso said...: Where was the roosevelts last ports of call.; 4/1/20, 11:11 PM
Sebastian said...: Good piece by John Cochrane on his blog. It's all about getting the reproduction number below 1.

That can be done while reopening smart and safely. He mentions real estate: complete shutdown is stupid, safe practices are feasible and easy to implement.

Of course, I have hammered on sports: one serious case in the whole world in over two months. Play can resume safely. Start with golf. Just as an example.

Cochrane notes, correctly, that assuming an average R is wrong; some people are superspreaders. But he doesn't note explicitly that not all infections are the same either: transmission among the healthy under-50 crowd carries minimal risk. Further reason to reopen smart: keep the risk groups out. The young stylists at the hairsalon should be able to save their livelihood by serving the kids in the neighborhood -- but not fat old people with diabetes.

There is an obvious alternative to devastating lockdowns: targeted (i.e., actual) quarantines plus behavioral adjustment. There is an obvious way for many businesses to reopen and operate safely. The fact that many politicians, esp. governors, are not doing the obvious suggests that current policy is a costly CYA operation. "We are doing everything we can! If we only save one life!" Nuts. And cruel.; 4/1/20, 11:13 PM
Etienne said...: narciso said..."Where was the roosevelts last ports of call."

Da Nang, Viet Nam

But they have had many contacts with people bring in cargo to the ship.; 4/1/20, 11:17 PM
mockturtle said...: Sometimes, love conquers all.

In the case of at least some of my gay friends, love had nothing to do with it. They were frankly promiscuous, frequenting the baths and having sex with random strangers at highway rest stops. :-( So, when this disease was first discovered, I thought of them and their risky lifestyle but, as so many were then, they didn't think it would happen to them.; 4/1/20, 11:17 PM
Lewis Wetzel said...: Blogger Charlie Currie said...
. . .
I've read that two of the risk factors are: 1 male and 2 type A blood.

Me also. But I am A-. Don't know if that will help.; 4/1/20, 11:23 PM
Drago said...: Etienne: "I suspect the USS Roosevelt has more STD cases than Wuhan Bat Flu."

They don't call it The Big Stick for nuthin'; 4/1/20, 11:34 PM
Etienne said...: Re: The blood type study:

"Those with the virus were distributed as follows:

38 percent type A
26 percent type B
10 percent type AB
25 percent type O

Similar differences were observed in Shenzhen."

This is interesting, as type O blood has no antigens (used to find and neutralize any potentially harmful foreign substances in the bloodstream).; 4/1/20, 11:35 PM
Milwaukie guy said...: Well yes, Mock, a lot of gay dudes are absolute whores and sluts, not to denigrate girls who put out in high school. Look at the near-governor of Florida out on the down-low.; 4/1/20, 11:39 PM
narciso said...: anecdotal but still; 4/1/20, 11:42 PM
chuck said...: Apropos the California testing lag. I spent a little time trying to track that down when it was 65,000 pending. The impression I got was that 22 state labs were expected to do it, but it was just an impression. There is a fellow I've worked in Berkeley who had the symptoms and went to his doctor. Doctor said that it looked like covid but that he couldn't get tested.

Utah allows private labs to run tests and report the results to the state.; 4/1/20, 11:53 PM
wildswan said...: They should have an Armageddon Reconstruction team composed of teams of businessmen from the different industries, like the airlines and farming, who work out how their own industry is going to recover and what rules we need to get rid of in order to assist the recovery in the different cases. They report up to the Armageddon Reconstruction Council which meets with the President when they have something to say. Keep the government agencies and the CDC and the lawyers out of it and there's chance we'll recover. Also don't have a team for the media or the universities. It would interfere with free speech and academic freedom. But do have Gig Industry and a small business industry team.; 4/1/20, 11:59 PM
Yancey Ward said...: "Who is the most evil character in all of Trek?"

The Tribble Queen.; 4/2/20, 12:05 AM
mockturtle said...: This would be a very good time to do road construction projects. At least in places that aren't still frozen.; 4/2/20, 12:06 AM
Mark said...: I don't watch him because he's obnoxious. But clicked over before I take my leave just to see Sean Hannity pull a Biden with getting flummoxed over his teleprompter.

Ha.; 4/2/20, 12:19 AM
exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...: I started watching "Tiger King" on Netflix. I watched episode 1 and thought it was bizarre. I just finished watching episode 4 and bizarre is far too mild a word. I found myself saying "What the HELL?" every 10 seconds or so.

There's a Miami tiger breeder in "Tiger King" who is a convicted drug smuggler. The character of "Scarface" was based on him. He used to smuggle bags of cocaine in live snakes.

He's one of the more normal characters in "Tiger King."; 4/2/20, 12:21 AM
narciso said...: Oh that he what he ended up doing, you know his inlaw is?; 4/2/20, 12:23 AM
exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...: Milwaukie guy said...
I just got news that a friend of mine is on his Covid-19 death bed and a new DNR is in place."

I am sorry to hear that.

You wrote a fine tribute to him.; 4/2/20, 12:25 AM
narciso said...: Im more a stargate fan, which they run episodes of on el rey network.; 4/2/20, 12:30 AM
Jon Ericson said...: @chuck
What do you suppose it could be?
Union labor issues?
Sacramento turf war?
Lab certification?
Politics?; 4/2/20, 12:51 AM
chickelit said...: bagoh20 said...I envy your position. You can't lose, but nobody said don't take precautions. I take lots of them, all day long. I even worry about it - probably more than you.

There must be a name for that sort of "can't lose" situation. Two weeks ago, I hinted at that same idea elsewhere on the Coronavirus: If the the coronavirus passes us over by Passover, The Big Chill will be credited -- whether or not it was the reason.

For support, I reached back to thoughts about global warming:

What really bothers me as a sceptic of the CO2 causes warming is that if the Copenhagen treaty is ratified and enforced, and warming does not occur, credit will be taken regardless of the true cause. To me this is a heads I win tails you lose proposition for the CO2 causes warming folks. But more insidiously, it is the exact mechanism by which Science could ascend to the status of a quasi-religion: give the people "miracle, mystery and authority" and they will follow. supporting link; 4/2/20, 1:19 AM
chickelit said...: @bagoh20: You might have to appreciate a little Dostoevsky to get my "miracle, mystery, and authority" allusion.; 4/2/20, 1:25 AM
effinayright said...: Mark said...
"I want the Cardassians exterminated."

"Which ones?"

"All of them. The entire population."
***********

Even Billy Dee Williams?; 4/2/20, 2:14 AM
StephenFearby said...: Ingraham's 'Medicine Cabinet' on the effectiveness of hydroxychloroquine, whether diabetes increases COVID-19 risk

Apr. 02, 2020 - 7:21 - Drs. Ramin Oskoui, cardiologist and CEO of Foxhall cardiology, and Stephen Smith, founder of the Smith Center for Infectious Diseases and Urban Health, join Laura Ingraham on 'The Ingraham Angle.'

https://video.foxnews.com/v/6146455701001#sp=show-clips

They don't mention using the anti-viral that the French group used in combination with hydroxychloroquine, although they mention that group's results. (Without identifying which results they're talking about -- the 20 patient or the following 80 patient report.)

https://www.mediterranee-infection.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/COVID-IHU-2-1.pdf

I'm amused that this recent review by Ryan Radecki on the 80 patient report, who knocks it because it wasn't a double-blind study:

Update on Hydroxychloroquine and Azithromycin
http://www.emlitofnote.com/?p=4594

Soldiers use field-expedients all the time when they don't have the right tool to fix a problem. A double-blind study was obviously the proper tool to validate whether something works or not, but when you're a hospital physician charged with trying to save lives you turn to whatever field-expedient you have that's LIKELY to work.; 4/2/20, 2:39 AM
PluralThumb said...: Been a while since I checked in. Nice to see random human comments, meaning not coded paranoia blabber acting out like a babies diaper is filled with digested apple sauce. I'm 40 and I've been in and out of psych hospitals there and here. I have a very hard time adjusting to 'the real world. Now I notice that when people work hard and contribute, life slowly descends people into the insanity that I was trialed with. I'm actually feel some emotion and having computer programming background I thought that may never be possible.

6 feet social distancing in NYC. Does that mean I have to be 6 feet away from my sex partner ? I don't have a sex partner, but that rule is not helping to motivate me.

- wtf; 4/2/20, 2:53 AM
Jon Ericson said...: @PT
Chin up.; 4/2/20, 3:16 AM
grackle said...: Hey Stanley – here’s wishing your Mother recovers. I have a 92 yr old aunt that is a sweetheart who lives with her family. Luckily, she lives in a small town in the Midwest and so far they have not been affected by the virus. BTW, I graduated from jr high at Westwego Junior High School. Of all the schools I attended the kids were the most friendly there.

A company run by experts is doomed to groupthink and circle jerks.

Bingo! Bring your card up to the podium, Polyzen, and claim a brand new electric toaster. The difference between an expert and a good executive is similar to the difference between a microscope and a telescope.

Its possible, leading figures in thr uk germany italy were all affected..

Narciso, if you are speaking of political figures by now most of them are probably taking hydroxychloroquine as a prophylactic. And hopefully, probably all of the Trump crisis team. I saw somewhere on YouTube that MDs in Africa prescribe it for anyone with a fever until or unless more serious symptoms appear.

I listen to Trump at his unhinged, rambling pressers and I actually expect to hear him talk about the impurification of our precious bodily fluids.

Aw, shit. And just when I thought I was going to get through the night without the obligatory ad hominem Trump-bashing on the thread. Strange wording: “ … precious bodily fluids” ... Fixated on those bodily fluids are we?; 4/2/20, 4:52 AM
Big Mike said...: Prosecutors: Engineer deliberately ran train off tracks in attempt to smash the USNS Mercy.

Engineer claimed that the hospital ship “wasn’t what they said it was.””; 4/2/20, 6:22 AM
CStanley said...: Thank you Grackle. We are/were westbankers too, but Algiers in Orleans parish, not Jefferson.; 4/2/20, 6:24 AM
Fernandinande said...: Fixated on those bodily fluids are we?

Have you never wondered why some people drink only distilled water, or rain water, and only pure grain alcohol?; 4/2/20, 6:35 AM
Jaq said...: Anybody who complains about Trump’s rambling should take a look at a Cuomo presser.; 4/2/20, 6:59 AM
Gospace said...: Etienne said...
Re: The blood type study:

"Those with the virus were distributed as follows:

38 percent type A
26 percent type B
10 percent type AB
25 percent type O

Hmmmmm, interesting. Alongside China's bloodtype distribution, numbers from Wikipedia:

"Those with the virus were distributed as follows: Blood types in China (Rh+)

38 percent type A 27.8%
26 percent type B 18.9%
10 percent type AB 5%
25 percent type O 47.7%
Total Rh- in China <1%

I wouldn't draw the conclusion that Type A blood people are more likely to get insomuch as I'd conclude Type O is less likely to get it.Link to the study?

In the U.S. blood type without Rh factored in:
O A B AB
Black Americans 49% 27% 20% 4%
White Americans 45% 40% 11% 4%

So it may end up infecting POC less... which ia a politically incorrect outcome....; 4/2/20, 8:13 AM
Gospace said...: Formatting doesn't hold in comments.... took away all the spaces.; 4/2/20, 8:15 AM
RMc said...: Over 5100 deaths in the USA. The curve is exponential. You can see it at worldometer.

It's not a hoax, or a mild flu, or a nothing burger.”

Uh oh Ken, you’re going to make Achilles mad.

Better to be mad that people are dying, than to be mad that people aren't dying fast enough, and thus making things easier for Orange Man.; 4/2/20, 8:25 AM
Michael K said...: This is interesting, as type O blood has no antigens (used to find and neutralize any potentially harmful foreign substances in the bloodstream).

Type O has no A or B antigens. They don't "neutralize" foreign substances. They are just markers on the red cell. Type AB has both types.; 4/2/20, 9:00 AM
Narr said...: Well, I'm pre-diabetic, still need to lose at least a stone, and have type A+ blood.

I mentioned to my wife my comment here a while back, that we had both been fine all winter. She corrected me (I hate it when that happens) that in early January she had spent about a week with something cold/flu like . . .

An so far my son is OK--his workplace was visited by someone who had C-19 but he hasn't heard that anyone there got it.

Narr
They told me A+ was the best!?!; 4/2/20, 11:12 AM