"I work out six times a week, and abstain from cigarettes. I thought my role in the current health crisis would be as an ally to the elderly and compromised. Then, I was hospitalized for Covid-19.... As a generation with a supposed commitment to social justice, we should be stepping up in our role as allies to more vulnerable populations. Yet, somehow the message of staying home still isn’t permeating our ageism and ableism. Millennials, if you can’t be good allies, at least stay home to protect yourselves... Millennials are reported to care deeply about wellness and social justice...."
From "I’m 26. Coronavirus Sent Me to the Hospital/Millennials: If you can’t stay at home for others, do it for yourselves" by Fiona Lowenstein (NYT).
Supposed to be committed to social justice.... reported to care deeply about social justice....
Could it be that this commitment and caring was just a luxury of good times? If so, here's the selfish interest alternative you may have thought you were too good for.
Whatever. Just do the right thing, kids. Protecting yourself protects everybody. It's okay if your heart isn't pretty.
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If you can get the reinfection rate to less than 1.0 (you infect less than one person on the averate), the disease dies out, immunity or not.
Social distancing lowers the reinfection rate. You are distanced and so are your potential victims.
Supposed to be committed to social justice.... reported to care deeply about social justice....
They all know what to say in classrooms and interviews.
Heil Hitler!
Let's make sure this 26 year old has a decade of economic failure to weather.
That should toughen Xer up.
Could it be that this commitment and caring was just a luxury of good times? [AA]
Ding ding ding ding ding.
A luxury, and a fantasy getting its first reality check.
I was such a good person, then I got infected! I'm disappointed people aren't as good as I am... I thought other millenials were similarly superior as I am, but they aren't!
Millenials mostly inspire an urge to clock them in the mouth whenever they communicate. No exception with this one.
If we get the infection rate to go negative, the disease will never have existed at all. If we're going to frame our goals mathematically, negative infection rate is the way to go.
they wouldn't be eloi, otherwords, but as the protagonist in the first episode of the strain, pointed out, a virus doesn't care about sex or gender or political affiliation,
Young people still get sick from the virus. They just don't die from it. Unlike the old timers who have lost their immunity system fastball.
So, if you're a young person you'll pull through, but you may still need hosptialization.
Reminds me of idiots who say:
"I pray every day and I'm a good Christian and bad things happen to me. There is no God".
I had to be hospitalized for the flu in college. Threw up black bile and lost control of all bodily functions. Had no idea it was even the flu until well after. Even the doctors at the time didn't know and just assumed I had done too much drinking.
What had probably happened was my body was weak from a serious, head-on car collision 2 months prior and my body was ready to fight this particular kind of flu. My doctor, who I saw weeks later, was angry with me and told me that kind of flu could have killed me. Roughest college semester I had, but I didn't drop out.
Empty words mouthed to make themselves feel good during, as you correctly put it, "good times." The reality is, today's kids are the same as yesterday's kids (and tomorrow's kids). They want to feel they are making the world a better place, that they are better than their elders, who screwed everything up. They will hang their hat on whatever allows them to feel that way without too much effort.
Well never get to 11 million with jerks like this surviving.
It always amazes me that some people don't understand averages or generalizations. Words like "most" "usually" "low risk" "confidence levels" etc. translate into absolutes for them.
God I hate “Here is my write up of my very important experience” Facebook post journalism. It’s so juvenile and shallow.
You can find one person to “me, me, me” about anything. Emoting is not a persuasive logical argument.
One out of . . .? Statistical minds want to know.
Keeping beds available for otherwise healthy young people like this SJW should be a priority. Yes, deplorable though I am, I favor saving the lives of young SJWs. Not sure they'd return the favor.
By the way, how long before lockdowns will be criticized as an exercise in white privilege, favoring old sick whites over healthy young POC? Come to think of it, maybe we on the anti-panic, pro-sanity side should adopt SJW tools.
Seems like the only millenials helping out the elderly are the ones brainwashed by religion. The social justice types are kind of pricks.
Reminder: "Social justice" is whatever some nitwit says it is. The very use of the term identifies the speaker as an unserious person.
Notice she didn't say she doesn't smoke. She said something very awkward to avoid saying it.
which suggests she's a pot smoker, and guess what ? pot ain't healthy. the LIE that pot is medicinal may about to be unveiled, as pot smokers suffer this disease's repercussions worse than those of us who don't get stoned.
There's nothing wrong with being gay and being gay doesn't affect whether one's opinions and arguments are valid or not, but why does everyone who writes for the Times and almost everybody the paper chooses to write about have to be gay or trans?
...which suggests she's a pot smoker...
Twas my thought as I read it. But but...we've all been lectured weed is a wonder drug!
I read this blog and the comments almost every day but rarely comment. A week or so ago, I made a comment about the first Covid 19 patients in NJ. They were both young people, in the hospital and on ventilators. To me. the key bit of information in this article is the young age and the no known underlying health issues of this patient. I think public health officials have done a great disservice by giving the impression that only the old and health compromised need to worry about major complications from Covid 19.
Could it be that this commitment and caring was just a luxury of good times?
A status symbol.
Someone scribbling away under the name Fiona Lowenstein seems to have an unusual health issue:
"Since then, I have fainted — and woken myself by vomiting — about 20 times."
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.eater.com/platform/amp/2017/7/25/15992670/vasovagal-syncope-salt-water-pizza
Seems to be a catastrophic inability to process salt.
Bingo, Allison. I also thought that was a weird construction, “abstain from cigarettes,” but it didn’t pop in my head as to why. Good catch!
Fionz sez: "Hi! I’m Fi (she/they), and I’m a writer, event producer, and wellness practitioner based in NYC. I’m also the founder of Body Politic, a queer feminist wellness collective, events series, and media company aimed at creating content and events on accessible wellness for marginalized populations."
Is there some reason that we should start believing the anecdotes of social activists?
"Could it be that this commitment and caring was just a luxury of good times? If so, here's the selfish interest alternative you may have thought you were too good for.
Whatever. Just do the right thing, kids. Protecting yourself protects everybody. It's okay if your heart isn't pretty."
Bingo.
"Bingo, Allison. I also thought that was a weird construction, “abstain from cigarettes,” but it didn’t pop in my head as to why. Good catch!"
Indeed.
Which means, seriously, that we should be assessing risk factors much more carefully. Is using pot a risk factor? We need to know.
While the data so far suggest low risk to young, healthy people, I am of course open to revision based on further evidence--both that youthful vigor does not mean a stronger immune response among a certain subgroup, and/or that "apparently healthy" young people weren't healthy in some significant way to begin with.
It is natural for each new generation of young adults to be idealistic and wish to right the wrongs and heal the ills they see in the world around them. It would be terrible if new generations were as cynical, bitter, resigned and beaten down while still young as many older people become through experience and awakening to the reality that the world is fixed by the wealthy and powerful for the wealthy and powerful, the rest be damned.
Here's the thing: life is unpredictable, including our own bodies. Why do (primarily) guys who are in "perfect" health drop dead of a heart attack while on their daily 10 mile run?
In this midst of all the panic, I offer this: Diamond Princess Cruise Ship Mysteries
"The very use of the term [social justice] identifies the speaker as an unserious person."
Not necessarily. Here's a test: Ask the speaker for a quick explanation of what the term meant to Thomas Paine and to John Rawls. If their answer is anything close to "huh?," they are, in fact, unserious.
Robert, sure, but that needs to be tempered by humility and awareness of their relative lack of experience. As the great Noah Vanderhoff said, “Kids know dick.”
That said, she is 26. “Kids.” Lol. At 26 I had three children and a mortgage.
Did she/they refuse medical treatment until the docs used her preferred pronouns?
I am very interested in the THC lung situation from a few months ago and this disease. In Belgium (I think) a doctor said he was horrified by the lung scans of young people who had recovered from COVID. And I can't help but wonder if they are at least checking to see if they are pot smokers.
I wouldn't wonder so much, but our politicians showed with the THC/vaping lung thing that they were more than happy to make sweeping, unrelated "cures" and the news media was more than happy to edit their stories to go along with them.
"abstain from cigarettes". I don't recall encountering that phrase before.
This will not be over and people will be at risk until the wall of immunity surrounds the virus and gives it no path outward. Younger people acquiring immunity is the only safe way to get there. Of course, we want to flatten the curve, but we have no choice but to follow some curve, or this never ends. It's science, and science is hard, becuase it doesn't care about your feelings, or how you wish things worked.
"At 26 I had three children and a mortgage."
"Kids know dick" indeed!
I never smoked, the experience of my uncle and grandfather informed that decision, it would have made more popular,
Could it be that this commitment and caring was just a luxury of good times?
That, and the difference between talking and actions. In our modern world, anyone can say almost anything without much effort. Doing things remains hard though. It's easy to claim that you care. It's a bit harder to do things like work at a soup kitchen, deliver meals-on-wheels, volunteer at your church or community center, or even just regularly visit an elderly relative.
First, let me say that I ally with socially adjacent political warriors justicing for peace.
Second, here is my list of demands.
Third, words cause harm, and violence is language, and oppression is everywhere. So please don’t use words I have not approved.
Fourth, the material world is transcendently real, and even scientists can abuse their privilege. You have been warned.
Fifth, my Self is a flowing river of volatile, genderless emotions, which have yet to be liberated from History and oppression.
Sixth, for far too long People like me have been prevented from speaking truth to Power...
....ah yes, the pandemic.
Cookie: Glad to hear from you. How are things in your neighborhood?
K-12 Schools are trying to offer distance learning while the schools are closed, yet law (precedent, mostly) may require them to provide full accommodation to students who are vision or hearing impaired, or otherwise disabled. And if they can't or won't do this then they may not be provide distance learning to anyone.
For decades now, disability activists have demanded that if all could not have something then no one may have it. And we've accommodated them, mostly by making extraordinary (and extraordinarily costly) efforts to do as they demand. Because we could afford to accommodate not only reasonable demands but more than a few less-than-reasonable ones as well. And because doing so was often easier than jousting with truculent activists.
Yet a crisis there isn't always enough for everyone, and the choice narrows to triage, or denying relief to all.
Which disability-rights activists will not accept. Because they've never had to, because the rest of us always found it easier to comply than defy. And because they are truly and fully willing to demand that if all can't have something then they'll do their best to prevent anyone from having that something.
"Could it be that this commitment and caring was just a luxury of good times?" Or just a denial of the reality that sometimes triage is justified, and that denying relief to everyone if there's not enough to go around is itself immoral?
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/education/2020/03/19/coronavirus-online-school-closing-special-education-teacher-distance-learning/2863503001/
"abstain from cigarettes". I don't recall encountering that phrase before.
My grandfather eschewed tobacco.
"Younger people acquiring immunity is the only safe way to get there."
Unfortunately not because immunity does not equal not carrying/spreading. The only path out is total annihilation of the virus by denying it human bodies in which to self-replicate.
Millenials, like most liberals actually, like the kind of caring that costs them nothing. This mostly takes the form of self-congratulations and empty words.
My grandfather eschewed tobacco
Heh.
Back in the olden days, when we smoked weed we passed the joint around. Is that still done today?
TALKING about social justice and posturing about what should be done to provide social justice is NOT practicing social justice or being "serious" about social justice.
When a group of people faced with an immediate and real ability to harm other people just by doing their usual routines DO NOT change their usual routines, or only minimally change them, they tell you who they really are....
You thought celebrities who preach about global warming while living in mansions and flying private jets were bad? That's nothing compared to the hypocrisy we're seeing playing out in 20 somethings today.
For those with time on their hands, here's some light reading about
Veblen and Conspicuous Wokeness
As a right wing hillbilly, I have noticed a dynamic where a radical new step in society is first suggested, and we cry out about how radical it is, and how it could be dangerous, and has costs. Those in favor of the change move to making it mandatory through law or social standard via cancel culture or shaming. Then they immediately adopt the standard of the opponents and say that resisting it is a radical idea. So the radical idea becomes a fundamental concept and the radical person becomes the sudden conservative on that issue. Lately, this has been happening with a very short cycle.
I have seen it here on these pages as people supported what are radical responses to this virus, and then when they get their way, they pretend like resisting those radical steps is some kind of radical idea itself, and that they are the conservative careful ones now, and that any reconsideration of those steps is a radical dangerous change. That took about 2 days.
Notice she didn't say she doesn't smoke. She said something very awkward to avoid saying it.
Nice catch.
I would also point out that there are a few young people who die of "old people" diseases all the time. It does not mean that a twenty-something is at significant risk of heart attack, stroke or cancer.
I’m a writer, event producer, and wellness practitioner based in NYC. I’m also the founder of Body Politic, a queer feminist wellness collective, events series, and media company aimed at creating content and events on accessible wellness for marginalized populations.
In other words, she's unemployed.
"Robert, sure, but that needs to be tempered by humility and awareness of their relative lack of experience. As the great Noah Vanderhoff said, 'Kids know dick.'
"That said, she is 26. 'Kids.' Lol. At 26 I had three children and a mortgage."
Gaining humility and awareness of lack of experience requires...age and experience! Also, it is often the lack of knowledge and experience that allows people to think they can accomplish great things. As Suzuki said: “In the beginner’s mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert’s there are few.”
And yes, my parents also had three children (two of them twins) and a mortgage by their mid- to late-20s (mother and father, respectively), but people today tend to remain "kids" much longer than previous generations, a tendency several decades old now.
"My grandfather eschewed tobacco."
My grandfather nipped liquor. In the bud.
"The only path out is total annihilation of the virus by denying it human bodies in which to self-replicate."
That's physically impossible without using immunity to do it.
One silver lining: Climate change has dropped off the narrative, at least for now.
The whole idea of flattening the curve is to extend out the exposure to allow the immunity to take place without overrunning the health care system.
"The only path out is total annihilation of the virus by denying it human bodies in which to self-replicate."
Let it be known that Meade never has to make payroll, either.
"Cookie: Glad to hear from you. How are things in your neighborhood?"
So far, calm and orderly. The streets are less crowded than usual, the subways fairly empty. Thanks for asking. I hope all is well with you and your friends and loved ones.
Has there been any correlation studied regarding infection rates for people who had a recent flu shot versus those who didn't ? I understand it was not designed to protect for this virus, but I got the shot, and I have anecdotal evidence that it gave a kick start to my immune system.
"Since then, I have fainted — and woken myself by vomiting — about 20 times."
So her printed story was dishonest by omission. QED.
"One silver lining: Climate change has dropped off the narrative, at least for now."
I probably missed where it was done, but this might be the first thing in modern history not caused by global warming.
"Whatever. Just do the right thing, kids."
Yes, but sometimes it's hard to figure out what is the right thing, no?
If I were in charge:
1. If over 70, Yes, stay home.
2. If sick, Yes, stay home.
3. If coughing, or fever or any other symptoms of sickness, Yes, stay home.
4. For the rest, stay home briefly, wash hands frequently, and return to normal activities as soon as possible. .
Tanking the economy by shutting down all work for everyone, everywhere, regardless of symptoms or test results is a foolish idea.
you might say that,
The only path out is total annihilation of the virus by denying it human bodies in which to self-replicate.
There's the possibility we quickly discover a combination of on the shelf and/or new pharma that works for prophylaxis or mitigation of the most serious cases. If that happens and we can keep the government and medical bureaucracy out the way we could get those less vulnerable out and about to get things moving again...
Problem with the shelter at all costs theory very quickly the cost becomes too high.
^^^ at least that dishonest.
""Younger people acquiring immunity is the only safe way to get there."
Unfortunately not because immunity does not equal not carrying/spreading"
On the other hand, there's this, from Wikipedia:
"Herd immunity (also called herd effect, community immunity, population immunity, or social immunity) is a form of indirect protection from infectious disease that occurs when a large percentage of a population has become immune to an infection, whether through previous infections or vaccination, thereby providing a measure of protection for individuals who are not immune.[1][2] In a population in which a large proportion of individuals possess immunity, such people being unlikely to contribute to disease transmission, chains of infection are more likely to be disrupted, which either stops or slows the spread of disease.[3] The greater the proportion of immune individuals in a community, the smaller the probability that non-immune individuals will come into contact with an infectious individual, helping to shield non-immune individuals from infection.[1]
High levels of immunity in one age group can create herd immunity for other age groups"
I'm so cynical of ANYTHING written by 26-year-old know-nothing in the NYT.
She never got sick. This is Jayson Blair redux.
According to the WSJ, I'm a millennial - just on the front end of the generation.
I have the following to say about my 'generation'...they suck and their virtue signaling was always about social control and selfishness. What else could expect from generation-me.
"I work out six times a week, and abstain from cigarettes. I thought my role in the current health crisis would be as an ally to the elderly and compromised. Then, I was hospitalized for Covid-19.... As a generation with a supposed commitment to social justice, we should be stepping up in our role as allies to more vulnerable populations. Yet, somehow the message of staying home still isn’t permeating our ageism and ableism. Millennials, if you can’t be good allies, at least stay home to protect yourselves... Millennials are reported to care deeply about wellness and social justice...."
She is a model of double-plus-good! She has committed ALL of the new mantra to heart! She IS the hope she was waiting for! She is DROWNING in the coolaid!
Young people get sick all of the time. The simple fact that she did not die should be expected and noted. Now, if she has a job, I want her to get her ass back to work. I want everyone back at work.
If you have a medical condition that you think leaves you vulnerable, then, you stay at home.
"The only path out is total annihilation of the virus by denying it human bodies in which to self-replicate."
I'm not entirely convinced that that is the only path, but I'm willing to be.
My chief concern is this: We're almost certainly heading into a recession due to this, something which may potentially be worse for the overall public health than an unchecked Covid-19 (although that's pretty recondite at this point). Now, there's evidence to suggest that mortality rates actually went down during the great recession of 2009, at least in the short term. However, there's a well established link between income level and life expectancy. I really feel like a prolonged recession (or worse, a new great depression) would almost certainly increase mortality in the longer term.
I really feel that at some point, and I don't know where that point is, we'll actually save more lives by lifting the lock down than by keeping it in effect. If someone can make an argument as to where my thinking is wrong on this, please do.
Good comments from Ann.
“Allies”. You can just see the mindset at work, the self adulation.
I found this sentence very, very odd:
"I work out six times a week, and abstain from cigarettes" (emphasis added by Y.W.)
This suggests she has been a smoker, smokes pot, and/or vapes. What do others think?
I would be easier to say I don't smoke, but that would be imcomplete I suppose,
Hardin in the first comment nails it. It isn’t about feels, it isn’t about -ism, it isn’t about -phobia. It's about physics and chemistry and differential equations. It’s about *literal* safe space. Fight the virus not the patriarchy.
Ok, should have read the comments first.
Tim maguire also nails it
“ They want to feel they are making the world a better place, that they are better than their elders, who screwed everything up. They will hang their hat on whatever allows them to feel that way without too much effort.”
"the reality that the world is fixed by the wealthy and powerful for the wealthy and powerful, the rest be damned.
Florida Man Cookie (who lives in NYC if you didn't already know) states as axiomatic his one-dimensional political opinion straight off a college sophomore's protest sign. Deep thoughts as always from our resident poseur dissident.
https://twitter.com/VickiMcKenna/status/1242104507686965254?s=20
"What else could expect from generation-me."
Every new generation is "generation me," particularly when they're young and beautiful and newly grown.
Nonapod: " I really feel like a prolonged recession (or worse, a new great depression) would almost certainly increase mortality in the longer term. I really feel that at some point, and I don't know where that point is, we'll actually save more lives by lifting the lock down than by keeping it in effect."
You feel right. Join #ResistTheInsanity.
this is what the Chisholm witchhunt delivered, a William hickey lookalike, who wants to bleed the state out like a medieval barber,
“I have seen it here on these pages as people supported what are radical responses to this virus, and then when they get their way, they pretend like resisting those radical steps is some kind of radical idea itself, and that they are the conservative careful ones now, and that any reconsideration of those steps is a radical dangerous change. That took about 2 days.”
An excellent observation, bago, and a phenomenon that cries out for a snappy name. It’s pretty much a hit-and-run written thing, though. Anyone who tries this in person can generally be shredded in short order.
"I probably missed where it was done, but this might be the first thing in modern history not caused by global warming."
You probably did miss it, but if not, a beer is being offered for holding by someone somewhere.
"abstain from cigarettes". I don't recall encountering that phrase before.
She is subtly claiming a virtue. Me, I don’t smoke. Just not something I do. I don’t yodel either I suppose. But I don’t actively not yodel. She sacrifices, she abstains. It’s something active and virtuous she is doing: abstaining. EVERTHING with these people is proving how good they are.
Go to the market in Florence and hug people from Wuhan. Be an ally! Should have abstained.
I'm tired of hearing about the millennials. Don't we have a new generation to pick on by now. If like others, they reject the ideas of the former, they will be an awesome group of hardworking, handout resisting, responsibility taking, cellphone ignoring, ass kickers that could actually save the world. A new greatest generation to repair what was lost by the ones in between.
I probably missed where it was done, but this might be the first thing in modern history not caused by global warming.
Just wait for it.
The rationale for the coronavirus caused by Climate Change is being worked on as we speak.
Millennials are, generally speaking, natural nanny-state fascists. The like rules, laws, signs, speech codes, and cradle to grave government coddling.
Yancey
I see a lot of us noticed abstain. I think it’s claiming a virtue, as I riffed above. It’s not just the kind of normal not doing something that applies to the rest of us. She actively abstains and therefore gets virtue points. I don’t think she is doing it consciously. It is part of how her mind works: the world is divided into good people and bad people, and look, Loki you can see I am one of the good ones.
Auto correct Loki for look. WTF.
I’m starting to think Dr. Fauci is harming the economy more than he’s helping antivirus efforts. Why does he keep poo-pooing the chloroquine + Z-pack treatment which is proving effective at treating and PREVENTING viral spread elsewhere? Why does he not say what facts will trigger a return to work? Is it the top of the infection slope? Is it when daily death totals actually decline? Help us out? Don’t leave Wall Street hanging with no end date in sight!
"That's physically impossible without using immunity to do it. "
Not true. See: SARS.
The young people partying in Cabo and Miami Beach certainly aren't worried about social justice. As I understand it, New York, New Jersey and Connecticut are on lockdown now, and Millennial SJWs - the ones who snitched on their classmates for not recycling and complained about the language their teachers used - aren't likely to be the ones breaking regulations. So just who is she talking to here? This seems a bit more me-oriented and show-offy than other op-eds.
When I read the snippet, I wasn't sure just exactly what a millennial was and who was a millennial. Definitions vary. According to one, college kids partying at Cabo now and people who started college twenty years ago are both millennials, with the youngest post-millennials still in high school. According to another definition, today's college students and the college students of 2000-2001 are two different generations. Generations, like decades, may be getting less cohesive with a lot more blurriness about what they are and where they start and end and how significant they really are.
William Strauss and Neil Howe, who coined the term "millennials," were jumping the gun. They envisioned a crisis occurring sometime in the 2020s with the millennials stepping up to meet the crisis. Crisis there may be, but are there signs that the millennials are the ones we have been waiting for? And was "millennial" really a good term for people born in the last decade of the old millennium, rather than in the new one?
"Every new generation is "generation me," particularly when they're young and beautiful and newly grown."
This is true. It's also as it should be. A "generation you" would be worse than no generation at all.
its a madhouse as pointed out, last thread, he didn't take such measures with hini,
Gentle reminder -- according to Johns Hopkins of the 353,000 cases world wide (Population 8 Billion), there's been 100,000 recoveries. .
I hope the young fellow in the article recovers, of course. Nobody likes being sick. Maybe, the NYT can publish an article on a 26-year old fellow/gal who recovered.
Gentle reminder, last winter, 34 MILLION Flu cases, and 34,000 deaths, so that roughly suggests, 33,966,000 recoveries just last winter.
I really feel that at some point, and I don't know where that point is, we'll actually save more lives by lifting the lock down than by keeping it in effect.
There are people with other chronic illness abstaining from care, people who will soon be out of financial resources, elderly who are sheltering without support falling through the cracks. 'Some point' is measured in days, not months...
I intuited that the writer was female before finishing the first two lines of the quote.
This suggests she has been a smoker, smokes pot, and/or vapes. What do others think?
Smokes pot, would be my guess. She can't say she's a nonsmoker, but she does abstain from cigarettes. So she's got that going for her, which is nice.
Going by the most important and reliable number (new deaths), we should only be locking down New York. That one state has 43 out of the 53 new deaths so far today. The rest of the country has this mostly contained. We should continue with the social distancing and other sensible measures, and give New York lots of help, but this crisis is not really nationwide. I think most businesses should be reopened soon unless they gather large crowds or involve intimate contact, but they should use new precautions and safety requirements for those where it matters.
I think it’s claiming a virtue, as I riffed above.
To be fair, it's been mentioned that smoking is a risk factor for COVID-19, so as she says she doesn't smoke (cigarettes), she continued in her litany of how she doesn't fit the profile.
I'd love to see more demographics on the victims. Yes, race, also sex and sexuality or sexual practices; piercings, tattoos. Maybe her vector was her recent undisclosed tramp stamp. We don't know unless we ask.
which suggests she's a pot smoker, and guess what ? ... you're going to predict the future?
These professional basketball players probably all smoke pot and here's what
the ones who tested postive had to say:
(First one, it says nothing about symptoms = probably none)
"Got no fever, no symptoms as of right now and just blessed to be OK,"
"...adding that he was feeling fine."
"I've had no symptoms and I feel great,"
"he was experiencing flu-like symptoms but still played a game against the Philadelphia 76ers."
I bet a lot of transmission comes from cannabis delivery systems. It's something that is usually shared via the mouth, hand, and lungs, and involves lots of coughing. When you think about it, it's the perfect way to spread any respiratory contagion.
Nichevo
I am not saying that her announcing she doesn’t smoke is bragging. I am saying her use of abstain is bragging. She is turning it from a simple fact to a claim about something she actively does.
"Not true. See: SARS."
LOL! Meade, there were 8,000 cases of SARS, and it wasn't easily transmissable. You are comparing apples to dog turds.
There is no stopping COVID at this point- we will build herd immunity to it whether you like it or not. The only question at this stage is how long it takes- 3 months, a year, a decade- it will happen.
Bagoh20 said...
I bet a lot of transmission comes from cannabis delivery systems. It's something that is usually shared via the mouth, hand, and lungs, and involves lots of coughing. When you think about it, it's the perfect way to spread any respiratory contagion.
===
Good point.
The American Spectator says we should go back to work by March 30.
I agree -- but with the usual caveats:
1. If over 70, stay home.
2. If pre-existing conditions, stay home.
3. If wealthy and don't need to work, stay home.
4. If job does not require you to go to work, then work from home.
But I generally think barbers, taxi drivers, butchers, carpenters, electricians, welders, longshoremen, waiters, cooks, grocery clerks, doctors, nurses, architects, pharmacists,bus drivers, should return to work as soon as possible.
Maybe, the lawyers should stay home:)
Blogger bagoh20 said...
I bet a lot of transmission comes from cannabis delivery systems. It's something that is usually shared via the mouth, hand, and lungs, and involves lots of coughing. When you think about it, it's the perfect way to spread any respiratory contagion.
Super valid. One mitigation of this issue is what my dad called "Brooklyn style" - roll a joint for every guest instead of doing the pass-around. Indeed, sharing mouthpieces is perfectly risky. Given human weirdness it will probably be made i to some kind of bonding ritual. See Steve McQueen and the leper king in Papillon.
One example of how millennial's tend toward fascist thinking and behavior:
I was walking with a companion a few days ago. 2 of us, strolling thru a quiet neighborhood with very little traffic. In fact, NO traffic. We were walking in the street, over to the far side, just below the sidewalk. This is where everyone walks when it's 2 people. The sidewalks are not wide enough to walk side-by-side. (I was out yesterday walking by myself, and I noticed all the 2-person walkers were in the street, just below the curb. Not in the way of any traffic, This is a natural occurrence.)
Anyway, we are walking along and....
Along comes one car, and it's a millennial guy driving with a female passenger. HE slows down and lowered the passenger side window. We fully expected a question of some type... "can you help us find.." kinda question.. etc...
Nope. He proceeded to lecture us that we shouldn't be walking in the street. it was DANGEROUS TO WALK IN THE STREET. We should get out of the street.
He didn't say it with ANY concern - he said with a voice of authority. Weird authority and superiority.
We were infringing on his little street, you see, as he drove by, he had to tell us that. Even though he didn't even need to move over in his car to pass us. the quiet non-busy street is plenty wide for all of us. He merely wanted to lecture us! Lecture over.... nothing. But it was not nothing to him. It was so crucial to him-- he had to slow down and tell us.
Immediately I thought "Typical millennial, asshole,"
I yelled out “ Please don’t run us over!” Like really? This is a problem.
I can only imagine his thoughts...
This millennial demands -> a law, a sign, a restriction, a government solution, - for what everyone does as they walk thru a quiet neighborhood with very little traffic. And this freak will probably be our governor some day.
"Going by the most important and reliable number (new deaths), we should only be locking down New York. That one state has 43 out of the 53 new deaths so far today."
I tried to find confirmation that we are testing all respiratory failure deaths for COVID-19. I had assumed this was happening everywhere. I was apparently wrong. I can't find a single example, not one, where a COVID-19 diagnosis was assigned post mortem.
In other words, it appears to me that we are counting as COVID-19 deaths only those people who were tested when they were alive. This means that New York might not actually be unique in the US, just the one state with more diagnosed living but soon to be dead.
I thought to do this because I had a family friend die of pneumonia just a couple of weeks ago here in TN. He was in his mid 80s and had battled lymphoma for a year and half, and had been hospitlized a couple of times with pneumonia. He wasn't tested before or after his death.
Just something to consider when looking at the numbers.
Blogger Ken B said...
Nichevo
I am not saying that her announcing she doesn’t smoke is bragging. I am saying her use of abstain is bragging. She is turning it from a simple fact to a claim about something she actively does.
Oh, I dunno, whatever you say. I just took it as the inflated highfalutin (hifalutin?) way that under/overeducated and insecure people talk. Maybe we're all on the prod now to see the worst in others. Continuing the Star Trek riffs, it's like that Day of the Dove episode where the Howard-like alien entity sought to feed, and feed off, the anger and hatred of the humans and Klingons.
awakening to the reality that the world is fixed by the wealthy and powerful for the wealthy and powerful, the rest be damned.
I suspect that you had these beliefs well before reaching the age of wisdom.
Some covidiot was asking about Fauci and H1N1. The big difference is that we had a vaccine for H1N1 early on. That radically changes what our options are.
"Gentle reminder, last winter, 34 MILLION Flu cases, and 34,000 deaths, so that roughly suggests, 33,966,000 recoveries just last winter."
How many articles? How many TV reports?
The Social Justice Hustle has run its course
"Not true. See: SARS"
SARS was a relatively rare disease; at the end of the epidemic in June 2003, the incidence was 8,422 cases, with 7082 of those in China and Hong Kong.
We cannot isolate 6 billion people around the world. Herd immunity is the answer, with vaccination increasing it later without risk. Even cures don't help, since that comes after you likely already infected others.
Also: SARS had a fatality rate of near 10%. That also demands a different approach.
"I can't find a single example, not one, where a COVID-19 diagnosis was assigned post mortem."
Not sure Italy does this carefully, but anecdotal evidence suggests that every death with Wuhan is attributed to Wuhan.
But I agree that basic data so far need to be viewed with some skepticism.
Remember the scare over Mexican marijuana that was laced with paraquat?
I am going to make "medical" marijuana laced with quinine. All I need is one NYT article to go viral touting the health benefits of my pot, and I will be a billionaire!
howard is like pengun on that other blog, mostly harmless but nonetheless annoying, we had a virulent Nazgul on one blog, that recquired a typepad reboot, although he's reappeared, recently
H1N1 caused over 60,000,000 infections, 340,000 hospitalizations, and 17,000 deaths.
But vaccine?
Sebastian, you have raised several good points and I'm generally in agreement that the damage we are causing with our reaction is likely to be as grave, if not worse, than the damage the virus spread itself will cause, although not sure those impacts can be disambiguated. Yet the QALY "analysis" you've engaged in on this blog has undermined the cause of reverting to normal. It is morally repugnant and very incomplete with respect to the overall social and economic costs, because one man's QALY units impact another's.
What if it turns out that this virus ends up having infection and fatality rates similar or even less than the annual flu?
Why is that unlikely?
Given the positive test rates in NYC and elsewhere, we are probably closer to herd immunity than anyone could have imagined just last week. A lot of people who got sick in February or even January or before may have, besides spreading a dangerous virus, been spreading around the communicable basis for eventually returning to something like normal life in 2020. I'd really love to see an antibody test widely available soon.
they were talking about it then
"But I generally think barbers, taxi drivers, butchers, carpenters, electricians, welders, longshoremen, waiters, cooks, grocery clerks, doctors, nurses, architects, pharmacists,bus drivers, should return to work as soon as possible."
Yes. The question is what counts as "soon as possible." Step 1: f l a t t e n t h e c u r v e. Step 2: systematicallyreturntowork
Yes, race, also sex and sexuality or sexual practices; piercings, tattoos.
Getting useful, or at least interesting, non-PC information will be like pulling teeth: I wouldn't be surprised if "They" are purposely not recording that sort of data in the first place.
The previous SARS had a strong racial component, with Chinese more susceptible, and I betcha it'll be similar with this SARS. FWIW, all the asymptomatic jocks I mentioned above are black, and ... "Why are there so few coronavirus cases in Russia and Africa?" (Mar 23 2020)
Their answer: we're not sure, but we already know that it has nothing to do with race (which is a non-biological social construct) so didn't bother to mention it or consider it.
"Hi! I’m Fi (she/they), }}}}
What does this even mean?? The usual gender pronoun announcement lists pronouns as "subject/object." She/her means that Brenda would like people to say, "Give the orange to Brenda, she looks hungry and oranges are her favorite fruit." Those people who want to be non-binary announce "they/them." At least that's internally consistent; "Give the orange to Taylor, they look hungry and we haven't given them any of this fruit yet."
So, does she/they mean that Fiona asks others to always use the subject-type pronoun? As in, "Give the orange to Fiona, she looks hungry and oranges are they favorite fruit?"
My guess is that it's a whole new, special type of pronoun category that tells others they are welcome to use either one.
This of course is not what will happen, but if there was no chance of a vaccine, and we expected this virus to be with us forever, and you were under 50, would you want to get the virus, develop the immunity, and be done with it before you got too old? Would you want all the young people to get it?
Gentle reminder: The US has a population of 330 Million. The normal death rate, sadly is about 2.8 Million each year. That's every year, every cause.
No. of Coronovirus deaths to date: 476
Real Clear Politics does a great service, by comparing the no. of deaths by country to the actual populations, and standardizing to deaths per 1 Million people
Take a look - what do you see? I see the US death rate at 1.4 per Million. That's very low, much lower than the flu last winter. Without a vaccine, without FDA-approved treatment, without testing.
Think about this for a bit.
"Is there some reason that we should start believing the anecdotes of social activists?"
They is in the hospital so I believe that they is extremely ill, and I also think the general tenor of they's article is useful and well-meant. Otherwise I take anecdotes from social activists with a big helping of skepticism.
Flatten the curve --> flatten the economy
Don't worry. We'll recover the lost 3+ trillion in lost economic activity. And the government debt increases of 3-4 trillion require no sacrifice. Cool?
Let's talk about how Social Security will pay 50% of current promises benefits. Let's have that talk while we're saving lives. I mean, the checks will nominally reflect the same dollar value. They'll just buy half as much.
That sound good to everybody?
"We cannot isolate 6 billion people around the world."
True — we can't. But 6 billion people (minus 11 million) can self-isolate if they choose to. Question is: How many minus 11 millions will it take before they do?
BleachBit-and-Hammers said...
I was walking with a companion a few days ago. 2 of us, strolling thru a quiet neighborhood with very little traffic. In fact, NO traffic. We were walking in the street, over to the far side, just below the sidewalk. This is where everyone walks when it's 2 people. The sidewalks are not wide enough to walk side-by-side. (I was out yesterday walking by myself, and I noticed all the 2-person walkers were in the street, just below the curb. Not in the way of any traffic, This is a natural occurrence.)
3/23/20, 10:57 AM
Were you walking with or against traffic? You should always walk against traffic, it is much safer...
Thus concludes my smartass retort... ;)
Math:
Knock 33% of economic activity off the books.
Now let's assume a 10% growth rate coming out of this.
Year 0 = 15 trillion economy
Year 1 = 16.5 trillion economy
Year 2 = 18.15 trillion economy
Year 3 = 20 trillion economy
Year 4 = 22 trillion dollar economy
Only four years of unprecedented growth to get us back to 2019 numbers. Great. That's the best plan?
Step 2: systematicallyreturntowork
When are you and Ann going to systematicallyreturntowork?
Asking for a friend.
They never will, Meade. They haven't even complied in Italy or Spain. The problem is the virus just isn't lethal enough to induce the motivation for the necessary collective action.
The only chance at stopping this was sometime last Fall, and it had to be stopped in China with the transmissabilty as high as it is. Once it got out of China, it was already too late.
The testing done in the US already confirms it is too late- 10% of the people with flu-like symptoms have the virus right now. This is at least a million people, and probably more, and this has been the case since early February when testing first started. Easily 5 million people have already been infected and recovered. Another 5 million by next month and the month after that. This will be proven as soon as random screening with immunoassays is done, though I imagine the battles to get the papers published will be brutal.
Blogger I Have Misplaced My Pants said...
Robert, sure, but that needs to be tempered by humility and awareness of their relative lack of experience. As the great Noah Vanderhoff said, “Kids know dick.”
That said, she is 26. “Kids.” Lol. At 26 I had three children and a mortgage.
3/23/20, 9:29 AM
As she professes gender queer feminism, I feel fairly sure she doesn't "know dick". Or it disagreed with her, at minimum.
“ But vaccine?”
Yes. If you cannot see why the existence of a vaccine is important to how you fight a disease then no one should listen to you.
You asked why no massive lockdowns with H1N1. The answer is that there was a vaccine found quickly.
and yet how many were infected, it doesn't make sense,
"Viability of Covid-19 virus on various surfaces
(hint: use gloves when handling Amazon packages and don’t open them for 24 hours)"
"The new Covid-19 virus decays completely on cardboard after 24 hours, but the earlier virus is pretty much gone after only eight"
"On stainless steel and plastic, the new virus will be almost completely gone after four days, and on copper in about 8 hours."
"The new virus in aerosols...with both old and new viruses having a half life of one hour ... But still this means that if you walk through a space in which an infected person has sneezed or coughed an hour or two beforehand, you could get infected."
"Asking for a friend."
Tell your friend we work from home. I have for 9 years, she has for 3. Hoping we can continue working for 20+ more years.
BAG
Don’t be a covidiot. The relevant number is not per capita over a whole country when the infection is still localized. If we annexed Mexico would that make the disease less dangerous? Per capita rates would fall, right? You have to look to the infected areas. Northern Italy is a mess. What are the numbers in northern Italy this year compared to last? 10 to 20 times the death rate.
New Jersey has joined New York on the testing elevator as panic in the state expands. Will test at least twice as many as yesterday, report twice as many new cases. Tomorrow, they will double today's tests with a doubling of new cases. This will spread out around New York. Probably CT or PA is next.
"Hoping we can continue working for 20+ more years."
Then don't visit anyone, or allow anyone in your home for the next 6-8 months. This is all in your control.
@Meade sez:
Yes. The question is what counts as "soon as possible." Step 1: f l a t t e n t h e c u r v e. Step 2: systematicallyreturntowork
Well, let's not pick and choose. The other question, is how long it will take to "flatten the curve," right?
How long did it take to "flatten the curve" during last year's flu season where 35 Million folks got the flu and 34,000 Americans died of it?
I don't remember any NYT articles on this question, or blogging about it, or national lockdowns.
Do we risk destroying the $20 Trillion economy while folks wait patiently for some medical expert in DC to tell us the curve has been flattened?
Ken B -
The flu vaccine the year/season 2009-2010, was created and distributed like any other annual flu vaccine. That didn't stop the deaths related to the H1N1 outbreak.
You are building a false narrative that the vaccine was a cure. A vaccine is never a cure. It only acts as a possible preventive measure.
Tell your friend we work from home. I have for 9 years, she has for 3. Hoping we can continue working for 20+ more years.
Will do.
My friend doesn't advise other people to do things which are very costly for them to do, and which he doesn't have to do himself, but he expects them to do for his benefit.
What if it turns out that this virus ends up having infection and fatality rates similar or even less than the annual flu?
It will be very difficult to draw conclusions because of the vastly different responses to the pandemics. Post hoc analysis is very difficult, and with all the political implications I expect the arguments will be intense. I'm planning on mostly ignoring them and moving on.
I'm planning on mostly ignoring them and moving on.
Assuming I'm still here, of course.
DISINFORMATION:
Blogger Ken B said...
Some covidiot was asking about Fauci and H1N1. The big difference is that we had a vaccine for H1N1 early on. That radically changes what our options are.
3/23/20, 11:03 AM
This can only be true if by “early on” you mean after almost 18,000 deaths, a year after WHO declared it a pandemic. WTF?
"My friend doesn't advise other people to do things which are very costly for them to do, and which he doesn't have to do himself, but he expects them to do for his benefit. "
Okay. I wonder if your friend would see the irony in your remark.
(OT)
I rarely watch TV news, but in recent years it seems that there is usually a story about pets/animals within the 30 minute segment. In recent days, that hasn't been the case. Evidently the NYT still requires a "helpful" first-person narrative.
"Do we risk destroying the $20 Trillion economy while folks wait patiently for some medical expert in DC to tell us the curve has been flattened?"
We will flatten the curve to whatever degree we flatten it, regardless of what any medical expert anywhere tells us. There is just this one opportunity to do it, however flat we get it. I know you're a smart guy so I'll assume you're aware of the risk to the $20 T economy if we don't try. Which risk is greater — that is the question for our wartime president who the people elected to make such enormous decisions. Everyone, at least at this moment, is free to support or resist. Like every war ever, only time will tell who wins and who loses.
Tell vaccine to the 17,000 dead.
And the 60,000,000 infected.
Do you understand what vaccines do?
Todd, :-)
With all due respect that is not the point. I usually always walk against traffic on busy or even semi-busy streets.
In this little barley any traffic neighborhood, I hug the sidewalk, but walk in the street. Everyone else does too. There isn't any traffic. I don't need a lecture about it from a bratty millennial who makes me pay 10 cents for plastic bags at the store, who makes me pay extra taxes on any sweetened drinks I buy, who thinks it's a good idea to ban straws, who wants a sign, a restriction, a law, and a government program at every corner. and who wants to restrict my speech. It's cradle to grave fascism.
At this point in the plague we seem to be under-performing somewhat compared to most other countries.
That's a dumb chart because identifying the 100th case is an arbitrary value, and is nowhere near the actual 100th case. The only thing that can be used a proxy for measuring the quality of our response is the number of tests, which is a function of test availability, population panic and density. And we're testing like the dickens in the tri-state area. We're flattening the curve, to some extent, but we can't know what extent because we don't know the shape of the curve yet. Testing is revealing what it may be, and it's showing that 10% of people with flu-like symptoms are infected: that's strong argument this virus has been spreading for a while, as if you'd run these same tests on people with flu-like symptoms a few weeks ago, it seems likely you'd get a similar rate.
The number of coronavirus tests conducted per million people is also plotted on that page. We are vastly under-performing.
"That's a dumb chart because identifying the 100th case is an arbitrary value, and is nowhere near the actual 100th case.'
I'm sure we had our 100th case sometime in December.
Think derivatives, ARM: we were slow to begin testing, but we've grown our testing rate exponentially. We were doubling the number of people testing each day, and the rate at which we are increasing people tested/day is still increasing.
Known Unknown, that's how I would bet. Lots of people I know in this global village of a city are reconsidering illnesses they had going back to Christmas time, thinking about contact with clients or colleagues who'd been in China in late fall or winter. Initially I figured my wife and I were exposed by her colleague who tested positive, but then I think about my company's big sales kickoff in Singapore in January and think, well, maybe it went the other way.
"As a generation with a supposed commitment to social justice..."
As a generation conditioned to criminalize independence in thought or action..."
BleachBit-and-Hammers said...
Todd, :-)
With all due respect that is not the point.
3/23/20, 12:51 PM
Oh I get that. I was just being a little shit (we named a cat that when I was a kid btw)...
Ken B said...
I am not saying that her announcing she doesn’t smoke is bragging. I am saying her use of abstain is bragging. She is turning it from a simple fact to a claim about something she actively does.
It's not bragging, it's CYA. Millennials have a 'call-out/cancel' culture. If she had claimed that she didn't smoke her social circle would have taken to Twitter and shamed her for saying that, since they know she never turned down a bong hit or that she vapes.
Todd- it's all good. I get your point. If I'm walking along say - Baseline, I'm facing traffic. Always. That's for sure. and if I were on the wrong side, walking with traffic, on a busy or even semi-busy road, I'd be far more receptive to a lecture from a snotty millennial.
You named kitty 'little shit'? LOL.
From ARM’s Vox link: “The US’s high uninsured rate, high out-of-pocket health care costs, and low medical system capacity combined to make the country more vulnerable to a pathogen before the coronavirus ever came to our shores.”
Compared to what—Italy? France? Spain?
daskol said...
Think derivatives
This is like arguing a runner should win the race if he ignored the starting bell, sat around discussing the stock market, and then had some substitutes step in and they ran the fastest.
"Lots of people I know in this global village of a city are reconsidering illnesses they had going back to Christmas time "
I can't help but wonder about a neighbor who died very suddenly in late December. She was 65 and not in the best health but still active taking care of people's pets and house-sitting. One day I was talking to her on the phone, she was fine...then within just a few days she got "the flu", had tremendous breathing problems, was hospitalized, and died. Boom! I remembered thinking that although I know that people get flu and can develop pneumonia, I always thought it was a more gradual process; not practically overnight.
Why didn't we hold Obama to the same standard in 2009 when the swine flu hit?
This notion that a president, any president, of any nation, can STOP a virus--> is silly.
It's more leftist gotcha bullshit.
I do agree we need to be better prepared the next time and there is a ton of blame to go around for not being better prepared, and shame on us if we do not learn and act.
Thing is, the next big virus is an unknown. Well, unless your Pelosi or Obama. They have super-powers.
Next time I want ALL travel from China stopped, the very moment we learn of the next virus they create. They will manage to do this again.
Wonder whether it shakes her faith a tad in “From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs"
Social justice anywhere is ... That said, no known conditions. Welcome to chaos (e.g. evolution), where we estimate past, present, and future with distributions.
" But 6 billion people (minus 11 million) can self-isolate if they choose to."
You really think so? That would kill more than 11 million by a long shot. Think about how humans support ourselves, how much contact is required to keep us alive, and then how much is required to continue civilization.
meade : "True — we can't. But 6 billion people (minus 11 million) can self-isolate if they choose to. Question is: How many minus 11 millions will it take before they do?"
Back during the cold war in Romania they discovered that if all you did to a newborn child was take care of its' basic needs (i.e. feed, change diapers and bath) the baby would die. If you want a baby to live you have to spend time holding it and cuddling it. That is to say that we are inherently social creatures and the only species that we have discovered that will organize ourselves outside of own kin. People have been told repeatedly "quarantine 14 days" and that number 14 is probably stuck in peoples heads pretty good by now. My guess April 1, 2020 is the day, April fools if you will, at that point they will have to shoot people to keep them in. After that humanity run the gauntlet of this decease, we will rather mourn our dead and go on than die by ourselves safe and alone. I will be surprised if we get to April before the suicides start.
Could it be that this commitment and caring was just a luxury of good times? If so, here's the selfish interest alternative you may have thought you were too good for.
~~~~~~~~~
Correct. Same goes for entertaining tranny delusions.
Maybe Millennials aren't anything special and are just normal human beings like the rest of us? Some are good. Some are selfish. You know...human beings.
"I will be surprised if we get to April before the suicides start."
Call it "extreme social distancing".
The phrase "abstain from cigarette" sounds like she vapes. And yes young people pass them around a lot. It is one thing that i worry about in regards to this virus. Seems like a good way to deliver a good size viral load right down to the lungs.
Think of it as evolution in action.
People who get their medical virus advice from a person who has sexual relations with a porn star without a condom, college dropouts with media platforms, Fox News, and Evangelical church leaders instead of from scientists and health professionals are thinning the herd.
Gary said...
People who get their medical virus advice from a person who has sexual relations with a porn star without a condom, college dropouts with media platforms, Fox News, and Evangelical church leaders instead of from scientists and health professionals are thinning the herd.
So a person who has sexual relations with scientists and health professionals has better medical virus advice than if they were having sexual relations with a porn star, college dropouts, media persons, and religious leaders?
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