"... a popular fish tank additive that has the same active ingredient as an anti-malaria drug. The drug, known as chloroquine phosphate or chloroquine, has been bandied about by President Trump during White House briefings on the coronavirus pandemic as a potential 'game changer' in the treatment of Covid-19.... The woman told NBC News on Monday that she had heard Mr. Trump make repeated mentions of chloroquine during recent White House briefings on the coronavirus and that she used chloroquine phosphate to treat her koi fish. 'I saw it sitting on the back shelf and thought, "Hey, isn’t that the stuff they’re talking about on TV"'.... The fish tank additive is used to eliminate algae and to treat the white spot condition commonly known as ich. On eBay, prices for the additive have spiked during the coronavirus pandemic."
The NYT reports.
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104 comments:
Where is Adam Schiff, clearly this is grounds for impeachment.
So rather than blame her for her own stupidity, they would rather blame trump.
Stupid can be deadly. And as often as possible Trump is responsible.
They did not treat themselves with a deadly home remedy for the new coronavirus.
They took fish tank cleaner.
That's on them.
On the positive side: if it had worked, they would have found the cure and have been heroes, not idiots.
So there is that.
I am Laslo.
And of course the Blue Check Twitter people you'd expect blamed this on Trump.
HE NEVER ADVISED ANYONE TO EAT FISH TANK CLEANER!
Uugh.
I know there's a civility bullshit tag. But please, for all that is good and holy, can we all stop screaming at Trump for chickenshit things? It doesn't help and makes things worse.
This is what happens when panic overwhelmes people. Don't spread the panic.
Sorry to hear, but WTH were they thinking?
They probably got their information from NYeT articles.
NBC: Did you see the President's press conference? Where did you hear about--
Patient: Yeah. Yeah, we saw his press conference. It was on a lot, actually.
NBC: And then did you did you seek out Chloroquine?
Patient: I had it in the house because I used to have koi fish
Jesus fucking christ the media is evil.
It’s very sad this happened, but hard to believe you have to tell people to limit the use of products as directed on the label. I’ve also heard President Trump and others state soap and bleach will kill Covid 19. That does not mean you should use Drano which contains sodium hydroxide (lye) and sodium hypochlorate (bleach) to wash you hands or clean your countertops, etc
“You need to listen to the scientists,” he said. “People are panicking and making decisions based on symptoms without being tested.”
It is not stated or confirmed in the article that they even had symptoms.
Trump bandied about the potential benefits of the medicine. Clearly his fault. /s
What is next? More eating of Tide pods?
I am sure this will be 24/7 Trump killed them but Biden telling folks to just shoot their shotgun into the air was OK-fine.
She "heard mentioned" by Trump but could not take the 30 seconds to do a Google? Not a Florida man story? Wow.
OR is this an elaborate cover-up of a homicide? How did they get along? Sorry, been watching WAY too much ID channel...
The same reason people die during winter power outages, from bringing a gas-powered generator inside and closing the windows and doors. Never underestimate the power of ignorance.
The New York Times is doing real harm by calling it a "home remedy".
I have feeling that if a million Lefties do that, the tide will turn on Trump.
Darwin nods approvingly...
What a surprise that they found away to make it sound like it's Trump's fault.
Can you imagine what these people woudl do with FDR or Churchill is they were Republicans?
"All we have to fear is fear itself"
Out of work? Trump says we don't have to care about your fate.
"We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets"
Sounds like Trump expects us to lose.
It WAS the same med, they just took 10-20x the therapeutic dosage. It's not bloody ice cream!
Insufficiently popular epitaph:
More is Better
And they weren't even sick!
I wonder if they were Sinema voters.
"But please, for all that is good and holy, can we all stop screaming at Trump for chickenshit things?"
A most reasonable sentiment. Unfortunately that train left the station a long time ago. The Leftists can't help themselves, because their world view is governed by "the personal is political".
That they chose a cheaper substitute... is Obama's fault, right?
You've gotta be kidding me. So, Trump is the ONLY Person saying the drug will help fight the Chinese Flu? And Trump is responsible for every idiot, doing idiotic things?
Doesn't everyone with a brain understand you don't eat Fish tank cleaner? OR that if you need to take a drug, you need medical supervision and advise? Even if you the correct drug, how would you know the correct dosage, or the possible side effects.
Its interesting that Scott Adams was already trying to get some from his Doctor. So, I guess Trump was right about the drug offering some hope.
BTW, the drug's ability to PREVENT the Chinese Virus is unknown. It has been show to help CURE The disease.
If you are a fish owner, I'd stock up on cleaner. They'll be a run on it. Nobody wants their fish to live in a dirty tank, and people will imagine that the dead man had the right idea but did it the wrong way. People are stupid like that.
BTW, went to the store and we're still out of TP. People are STILL showing up at 6 AM and buying TP - whether they need it or not. Hopefully, they'll calm down by the end of the week.
Charles Darwin.
There's never a shortage of candidates for the Annual Darwin Awards. No matter who is POTUS.
Somehow, someway, Florida man will find a way to top this stupidity in a magnificent fashion.
btw
11 milion plus 2.
No comment. Anything from the NYT is beneath even a contemptuous comment.
What editor would allow the phrase "bandied about" in the context of what Trump has actually said about chloroquine.
Why an editor at the New York Times, of course.
When I taught a class in critical thinking, we used to call phrases like that "tip offs". They were clear signs of the biases of the writer.
Plaquenil (hydroxychloroquine)along with (for some patients) azithromycin isn't "something the President has bandied about." Rather, there's a perfectly good French study showing excellent results with a small cohort of COVID-19 patients. Ann, I'm emailing the study to you so you can link it, so your readership (and you!) can read it for themselves. Not a large randomized placebo-controlled double-blind trial like
Fauci wants, but very very far from "anecdotal."...
MayBee, a lawsuit has GOT to be brewing over their characterization of aquarium cleaner as a "home remedy": "Your Honor, my client read it in the New York Times. Unironically presented, as you can see right here, in a straight news article. My client concluded from the article that the compound he took was as stated a home remedy but that the original user miscalculated the dosage."
The amazing thing is that it got through in the first place. What on Earth has happened to the editors over there? And the lawyers? You're absolutely right, that article stands to do actual demonstrable harm.
If it weren't for the prospect of more injury and death from their stupid obsession with Getting Trump, I'd sit back and enjoy my popcorn. But for God's sake, NYT, correct this!
Don't say "it was the same med." Nobody needs more people taking aquarium cleaner.
An aquarium supply company's website calling it a "wonder drug" is still up and saying the product is sold out. Nobody needs that kind of marketing either.
RV said:
"They should no (sic) better, listen to Dr, Frauci (sic), and not Dr. Trump for factual advice.
I heard an interview with Dr. Fauci on Chris Stigall's radio show in Philadelphia this morning.
Dr. Fauci was quite complimentary of President Trump.
Good way to weed out ignorance. Come on. This was dumb.
Interesting to see the media and leftists hoping the drug proves ineffective because they feel it would hurt Trump. How sad and pathetic. I wish I could say I was surprised.
To misquote Monty Python, dynamite can also be used to treat coronavirus. Results of our testing: 3 dead, 2 maimed, 5 missing (presumed cured).
I figured the main premise of the story was likely to be false, what with it coming from the NYeT, but try a search on
fish tank "cleaner" "ingredients" "chloroquine" -trump -coronavirus
and some cleaners really do contain chloroquine.
In general, liberals, including the leadership, have a harder time "thinking outside the box," which is what is needed with issues like what we are dealing with now. You can't rely on the bureaucracy in times like this because it is almost guaranteed to fail at resolving problems like this in a timely fashion. Trump excels at maneuvering around obstacles like that - the media and the Democrats hate to see him do that, because it is clearly demonstrating the weaknesses in their style of government.
Great YouTube video of the biochemical process that may make Chloroquine effective in the treatment of viruses...to me it seems extremely plausible as a treatment and perhaps even preventative.
Although I will refrain from taking my dose from fish medicine. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7F1cnWup9M&t=907s
Althouse just posted an article putting Dr. Fauci’s compliment of Trump in context of his job. I still trust him and not Dr. Trump for the facts.
WSJ excerpt:
A flash of potential good news from the front lines of the coronavirus pandemic: A treatment is showing promise. Doctors in France, South Korea and the U.S. are using an antimalarial drug known as hydroxychloroquine with success. We are physicians treating patients with Covid-19, and the therapy appears to be making a difference. It isn’t a silver bullet, but if deployed quickly and strategically the drug could potentially help bend the pandemic’s “hockey stick” curve.
Hydroxychloroquine is a common generic drug used to treat lupus, arthritis and malaria. The medication, whose brand name is Plaquenil, is relatively safe, with the main side effect being stomach irritation, though it can cause echocardiogram and vision changes. In 2005, a Centers for Disease Control and Prevention study showed that chloroquine, an analogue, could block a virus from penetrating a cell if administered before exposure. If tissue had already been infected, the drug inhibited the virus.
On March 9 a team of researchers in China published results showing hydroxychloroquine was effective against the 2019 coronavirus in a test tube. The authors suggested a five-day, 12-pill treatment for Covid-19: two 200-milligram tablets twice a day on the first day followed by one tablet twice a day for four more days.
A more recent French study used the drug in combination with azithromycin. Most Americans know azithromycin as the brand name Zithromax Z-Pak, prescribed for upper respiratory infections. The Z-Pak alone doesn’t appear to help fight Covid-19, and the findings of combination treatment are preliminary.
But researchers in France treated a small number of patients with both hydroxychloroquine and a Z-Pak, and 100% of them were cured by day six of treatment. Compare that with 57.1% of patients treated with hydroxychloroquine alone, and 12.5% of patients who received neither.
What’s more, most patients cleared the virus in three to six days rather than the 20 days observed in China. That reduces the time a patient can spread the virus to others. One lesson that should inform the U.S. approach: Use this treatment cocktail early, and don’t wait until a patient is on a ventilator in the intensive-care unit.
A couple of careful studies of hydroxychloroquine are in progress, but the results may take weeks or longer. Infectious-disease experts are already using hydroxychloroquine clinically with some success. With our colleague Dr. Joe Brewer in Kansas City, Mo., we are using hydroxychloroquine in two ways: to treat patients and as prophylaxis to protect health-care workers from infection. . . . As a matter of clinical practice, hydroxychloroquine should be given early to patients who test positive, and perhaps if Covid-19 is presumed—in the case of ill household contacts, for instance.
Charles Darwin smiles.
I heard Trump say soap and water can kill the virus. So, I'm going to chug a bottle of Dawn.
If that doesn't work out, it will be Trump's fault.
exhelodrvr1 said...
Great post, exhelodrvr1. A little while ago I emailed the French study to Ann Althouse as a 312KB pdf. If she'll link to it people here can read it for themselves...
Why do we never hear anything from or about the US Surgeon General?
The NYT has suppressed the news that Governor Cuomo ordered trials of the treatment in NY, right after the Times had ridiculed Trump ("defies science") for mentioning the potential treatment. I could not find a single mention of Cuomo's decision in yesterday's NYT.
Why do we never hear anything from or about the US Surgeon General?
3/24/20, 8:53 AM
I saw him being interviewed on Fox the other day. He's smart and articulate. He's also spoken up and taken questions at some of the daily press briefings.
I suspect the other networks really don't want to draw attention to the fact that "racist" Trump has a black Surgeon General. Just a hunch....
All the warning labels in the world on products...even if the size of the font is huge.... STILL can't defeat the stupid.
Maybe all the DUMBocrats who hate Trump will listen to the media and not take the medicines offered by their doctor....because ORANGE MAN BAD. Darwin's law in action. AND more supplies for the rest of us.
Chloroquine was developed in 1934 and has been used successfully to treat malaria in people and also to treat various protozoal infections in aquarium fish. Chloroquine has a narrow therapeutic range, and the toxic dose is not that much greater than the therapeutic dose.
" As little as 2-3 g of the chloroquine may be fatal in an adult. The most commonly
reported lethal dose for adults is 3 to 4 g. A minimum lethal dose in man is estimated
at 30 to 50 mg/kg."
Doctors prescribing the medication know this and will prescribe a safe level of medication, but people self-medicating with a product designed for use in aquarium fish do not. Koi are big fish that swim in big tanks or ponds- the amount of chloroquine added to a small Koi pond is probably several times the toxic dose in people!
There is a reason products labelled "Not for human consumption" should not be ingested!
This is the woman that killed her husband:
Heidi Przybyla
Verified account @HeidiNBC
"Oh my God. Don't take anything. Don't believe anything.
Don’t believe anything that the President says and his people because they don't know what they're talking about. And don't take anything--be so careful and call your doctor. This is a heart ache I'll never get over."
Giy has to have been a Hillary and Sinema voter.
Exiled @ 9:01, I'm sure you're right. Anything that doesn't support their narrative is edited out or just plain ignored. Which explains why my otherwise fairly intelligent sister thinks the way she does. And other Libs I know.
Althouse just posted an article putting Dr. Fauci’s compliment of Trump in context of his job. I still trust him and not Dr. Trump for the facts.
Althouse just posted an opinion piece by a known partisan hack. Maggie doesn't deal in facts, only talking points she thinks will help her team.
Can we impeach Trump for negligent homicide?
Sounds promising, exhelodrvr1. Thanks. Solving technical problems in real time requires throwing lots of darts to see what sticks. Data bots hardest hit.
Ford making masks, working with 3M to increase their production of ventilators.
Somebody should ask Nancy Pelosi's kid if more Republicans should try this treatment.
Darwin Award nominee right there.
How did he arrive at a teaspoonful as a dose? Maybe he figured he was bigger than a fish tank, so it should be OK.
People, you can't just go around randomly eating things.
People, you can't just go around randomly eating things.
Well, you DO in Skyrim.
If you don't eat everything you won't know the magical properties or be able to get more skill in alchemy. Yeah. You do get kind of sick and the screen gets blurry for a while, but you are now smarter.
What? You mean that doesn't work in real life?
Dust Bunny Queen said...
People, you can't just go around randomly eating things.
Well, you DO in Skyrim.
If you don't eat everything you won't know the magical properties or be able to get more skill in alchemy. Yeah. You do get kind of sick and the screen gets blurry for a while, but you are now smarter.
What? You mean that doesn't work in real life?
3/24/20, 9:51 AM
So, you too are Dragon-Born?
The media is just fucking insane in this country.
There are no vaccines for stupid.
"Can we impeach Trump for negligent homicide?"
I bet some Democrat prosecutor will try to indict him.
Todd So, you too are Dragon-Born?
Absolutely. I was so surprised! There seems to be many of us.
"I didn't know the gun was loaded"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76iuJMuXWqA
"Blogger wendybar said...
Good way to weed out ignorance. Come on. This was dumb."
I'm not saying we should kill all the stupid people ... but maybe if we just removed all the warning labels the problem would sort itself out.
"Ask your pet store guy if Chloroquine Phosphate is right for you."
Full on media assault on Chloroquine now.
Establishing a narrative the drug is unsafe. They know it's going to be effective and may go a long way in ending this disaster.
Can't have that. These people deserve to be hated.
Trump was clear about the drug needing a prescription. Trump didn't say anything about over-the-counter, pet stores, or self-medicating. If the press continues this story to attack Trump, they will be discouraging people from a potential cure.
I suspect the other networks really don't want to draw attention to the fact that "racist" Trump has a black Surgeon General. Just a hunch....
It would also run contrary to the narrative that he dissolved his NSC health staff, which of course it would since that didn't happen.
FFS, FFS, FFS!!
Hydroxychloroquine (C18H26ClN3O)
IS NOT THE SAME AS
Chloroquine phosphate (C18H32ClN3O8P2)
Chloroquine phosphate is what the idiots in Arizona ingested.
Hydroxychloroquine is classified as an irritant only: (https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/hydroxychloroquine)
Chloroquine phosphate is listed as an irritant AND A HEALTH HAZARD
(https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/Chloroquine-phosphate)
Think of it this way: Sodium (Na) is a highly reactive (ie: explosive) chemical. Sodium Chloride (NaCl) is... table salt. Just because two chemicals share part of a name, doesn't make them interchangeable!
Nobody but Nobody has recommended ingesting Chloroquine phosphate.
If the Goddamn media can't do better, they need to be shut down.
I repeat my wishes for all COVID-19 related press conferences by political officials to end with "and don't eat Tide Pods!," amended now to "don't eat fish meds!"
Quinine based stuff is no joke. Decades ago, I was on mefloquine for a while during a lengthy stay in a malaria infested hellhole. I got malaria, probably because after a few months I stopped the prophylactic mefloquine, because even used as prescribed (a pill/week) it gave me vivid nightmares and other still more unpleasant side effects.
I’m hoarding all the Hydrox I can. They may not cure ChiCom flu, but at least I’ll have cookies.
They’re better than Oreos —FIGHT ME!!!
I’m hoarding all the Hydrox I can. They may not cure ChiCom flu, but at least I’ll have cookies.
They’re better than Oreos —FIGHT ME!!!
Outer cookie is too soft for dunking in milk, rendering it useless and pointless.
Dunking cookies in milk is barbaric.
I agree with Todd — this was a cleverly disguised murder. What did she do, convince hubby he needed the larger dose?
They ingested a teaspoon each. That's about 5 grams, a/k/a 5000 mg, when the dose that's been talked about in recent medical articles is max 500mg.
But it's clearly President Trump's fault.
The press is simply full of bad people. I'm sorry, but there's no way to excuse this coverage.
janetrae said...
I agree with Todd — this was a cleverly disguised murder. What did she do, convince hubby he needed the larger dose?
She sounds just like your typical grieving widow, doesn't she?
Since the news media is so certain that hydroxychloroquine is a blunder on Trump’s part, I propose that they sign an agreement not to use that therapy if they should contract COVID-19.
I could not find a single mention of Cuomo's decision in yesterday's NYT.
Neither did Drudge.
It could have been the salmon mousse.
If you are buying your anti-virus meds from Pet Smart, you are not doing it right.
Cleans the gene pool as well apparently
3MartiniLunch said...
FFS, FFS, FFS!!
Hydroxychloroquine (C18H26ClN3O)
IS NOT THE SAME AS
Chloroquine phosphate (C18H32ClN3O8P2)
Chloroquine phosphate is what the idiots in Arizona ingested.
With respect, both chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine+azithromycin are human meds and possible COVID cures/treatments.
Dunno if they added anything at PetSmart to the stuff, like lye or whatever, but afaik, and some guy who is a doctor on the internet agrees, the only problem (other than that he didn't need it) is that he took a 10x-20x overdose, which would be lethal even with a prescription.
Notably not on that list, although once used for similar purposes: mefloquine. I was prescribed it in the 90s, but here's an FDA warning from 2013.
All of these drugs can be intense, and some have cardiac effects that generally suggest these be taken under medical supervision at least until one's reactions are better understood.
Besides dizziness and ringing in the ears, this "mythology" around mefloquine rings true, which is why it is much more rarely used in the US these days than the other ones:
The drug has taken on a dark mythology among many travelers, who have long traded stories about the vivid dreams or strange hallucinations they experienced while taking Lariam. It has also been implicated in cases of violence among military personnel, although others have noted that serious side effects are rare.
My feeling, and I was thinking this over a week ago, was that we should distribute hydroxychloroquine treatment packs to everyone that asks for them regardless of whether they show symptoms or not. And, of course, instructions on how to use it.
Hydroxychloroquine is going to work best when taken near to the beginning of the infection, and if worse comes to worse, there isn't going to be time for doctors to do a prescription. No, to be really effective, people need to already have the treatment packs in their hands.
And the instructions would go something like this:
(A) Call your doctor before starting the treatment if you think you might be infected.
(B) If you can't get a doctor on the phone, only take this if you have a fever or a dry cough or a newfound inability to taste and smell.
(C) Please follow the instructions exactly. In particular do not take more than is suggested. More is not better and more can kill you.
And if we did that, most people would follow the instructions and overall it would be a major benefit. Now most of the people that would take it wouldn't really have the Covid-19 virus. And they would suffer some relatively mild side effects. But in those cases where people actually do have the virus, it would save a significant number of lives and slow down the spread the virus considerably.
But I also know that there would be deaths and serious illnesses caused by people not following the instructions.
Still none-the-less I think these hydroxychloroquine treatment packs should be given to everyone that asks for them and without a prescription.
“The drug, known as chloroquine phosphate or chloroquine, has been bandied about by President Trump during White House briefings on the coronavirus pandemic as a potential 'game changer' in the treatment of Covid-19... “
Funny, I thought the drug Trump was talking about was an anti-malarial drug that my son who lives in Africa has taken for six years with no ill effects. I had no idea he was speaking of a fish tank cleaner until the New York Fishwrapper said so.
stevew said...“Stupid can be deadly. And as often as possible Trump is responsible.”
It is dead certain that TDS exposes people’s stupidity. I don’t think Trump’s responsible, though. The seeds of stupid were clearly there before he was elected.
As others have already commented, the New York Times has a serious error. The same error that this couple made. Hydroxychloroquine, or hydroxychloroquine sulfate, is not the same thing as hydroxychloroquine phosphate.
Now most people are not chemists, and they don't realize that the phosphate versus sulfate distinction might make a big difference. I mean look at these journalists! They had hours and hours to check up on things and talk to real experts and yet they still make the same dumb mistake!
It's unfortunate what happened to this couple. They really weren't that stupid. I mean most people would be this creative. But they got the details wrong. And I will assume that they didn't really mean to give themselves ten times the dosage, assuming they had the right hydroxychloroquine. Because measurements are hard to get right also, if you don't have the experience.
Oh, and another question. What else was in that fish tank treatment aside from hydroxychloroquine phosphate?
So, TDS is thinking Trump has responsibility for hawking snake oil to really stupid people. We all know he takes no responsibility.
He should have NON COMPOS MENTIS tattooed to his forehead, as public service.
It's unfortunate what happened to this couple. They really weren't that stupid. I mean most people would be this creative. But they got the details wrong. And I will assume that they didn't really mean to give themselves ten times the dosage, assuming they had the right hydroxychloroquine. Because measurements are hard to get right also, if you don't have the experience.
Well, I know nothing of chemistry, fish tanks or phosphates. My first thought was, why would an expensive Anti-malaria drug be used to clean fish tanks? And if its that cheap and inexpensive, and therefore easy to make, why would they there be any shortage? But I guess these two didn't think of that.
Dan Bongino
@dbongino
·
2h
THEY INGESTED FISH TANK CLEANER, YOU COLOSSAL DIPSHIT!
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Quote Tweet
George Conway
@gtconway3d
· 23h
Some advice from the woman in Arizona who, along with her husband, took chloroquine phosphate because @realDonaldTrump said on TV it was a cure and was safe.
She’s in an ICU. Her husband’s dead
It is hard for me to care about such stupid, dumbass adults.
The only people that should be sad are any children/grandchildren they may have.
Browndog said...
I’m hoarding all the Hydrox I can. They may not cure ChiCom flu, but at least I’ll have cookies.
They’re better than Oreos —FIGHT ME!!!
Outer cookie is too soft for dunking in milk, rendering it useless and pointless.
All chocolate cookie and cake is useless and pointless, retards. Lorna Doone or GTFO. Fight ME.
None of the -quine variants, nor azithromycin, are expensive, they're all off patent. Cost is probably a nickel a pill. A buck? Anyway, chump change. Remdesivir is new, hard to make and probably pricey. Apparently there are other drugs in the pipe for this too-someone is having a grand trial of four drug regimens.
Well he's certainly safe from the coronavirus now.
My mom told me stories about how local t.v stations had to post warnings before the daily Superman show because kids were tying bedsheets around their necks and jumping off roofs and breaking their limbs. Maybe we need to have disclaimers before every presidential address that "President Trump is not a medical doctor. Please consult a physician before disregarding it completely and doing whatever the hell you want"
Not a doctor but likes to play around as if he were, on TV.
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